tv Weekends With Alex Witt MSNBC June 23, 2012 12:00pm-2:00pm EDT
state attorney general praised the verdict. >> this defendant, a serial child predator, who committed horrific acts upon his victims causing lifelong and life changing consequences for all of them, has been held accountable for his crimes. >> and there you see the mugshot which was taken after sandusky was led from court and taken to centre county jail in bellefonte, pennsylvania. that is where ron allen is today. ron, how is the community reacting to the news of this big guilty verdict? >> reporter: the first word that comes to mind is relief. many people are saying there is a milestone that's reached and people are glad the trial is over and the jury has rendered its verdict. it's been very emotional as you played that tape. there was a lot of reaction last night that felt at times like a sporting event or rally, the booing of joe amendola when he said things about innocent
people in jail. there was cheering and applause for the prosecutors and investigators when they came out of the courthouse after the verdict was known to the public out here. here's more of what the prosecutors and the defense had to say reacting to the verdict. >> this trial was not something that they sought but rather something that forced them to face the demons of their past and to reveal what happened to them and their childhood when they met jerry sandusky. >> the jury obviously believed the commonwealth's evidence, believed the commonwealth witnesses, that's clear from their verdict. >> reporter: i think most people here had a strong feeling that jerry sandusky was going to be found guilty. the question was how many of the 48 charges would he be held found guilty of and the number was essentially 45. but of course, a lot of people here are also well aware of the fact there's a long way to goxt there are still criminal investigations and cases involving two top penn state
officials and internal investigation and more victims coming forward. so while we have reached this milestone, there's a long way to go for this community with this particular issue and these cases. >> ron, a lot of us were talking about the case. and wondered about dottie sandusky. did you see her departure because you were there all night long? do we know where she is today? >> reporter: i don't know exactly. i presume she's at home. i didn't see her yesterday. her look was described as basically blank. i don't think there was a lot that people could see reading and looking into her face or the family. there was some reports of some people in tears, jerry sandusky perhaps in tears as he was standing to hear the verdict. i'm not sure about all of that. in front of the public, the sandusky family was for the most part emotionless or appearing to be. but you have to understand, you have to believe this is tearing them apart inside. for example, matt sandusky, one
of the adopted sons, came forward a couple of days ago through his attorneys and said he had been a victim of his father's abuse to use his words. so this is tearing that family apart as it has been tearing so many of the community apart. a lot of people reacting to this are thinking about the victims and what we went through to come here and make these concerns, make this horror they've been going through public. >> points well taken. ron allen, thank you. more from one of the jurors who convicted jerry sandusky. josh harper spoke slexclusivelyo the "today" show about how they weighed the testimony. >> we were focused on the facts and determining credibility. >> you heard eight victims back to back. did any one stand out or was there a collective sense of the stories being the same that really sent you in the direction towards conviction? >> yeah, i would say both.
i think there were a couple that i felt very credible. it's hard to judge character on the stand because we don't know these kids but most were you know, very credible. i would say all. and but then also the fact that we saw this corroborating story between all of them. it was very convincing. >> at one point earlier friday, the jury asked to rehear the testimony of mike mcqueary, the assistant coach who witnessed molestation act in the shower. you didn't go so far as to convict jerry sandusky of rape in that case. what held you back on that? what do you think of mcqueary's testimony? how important was it? >> yeah, for me it was very important. the reason we held back is because we did not have the evidence that very first charge
happened because mcqueary did not see any actual penetration. and we were in agreement amongst all of the jurors that because of that we could not convict him of that first count. but i just kept going back in my mind, why would mcqueary lie about this? and he was sure and he made it very apparent that he saw something that wasrong and extremely sexual. >> was it hard to get to 48 convictions in this case? was there disagreement as to his guilt or innocence on any of these charges at any point? >> yes. yes, there was. and it was just that we looked at some inconsistencies and some of the testimony and we wanted to reconcile those and make sure that that was -- wouldn't discredit the testimony. we worked through those things
systemically as a jury. we really worked together very well and we were patient. and we gave time and i thought it was very good that certain jurors did express those misgivings that they had and the inconsistencies and we worked through those together to make sure we were making the right decision. >> you folks -- >> and we didn't -- >> you folks were sequestered during this, cut off from tv and the internet. after you went behind closed doors to start your deliberations, we learned that matt sandusky, jerry sandusky's son was prepared to take the stand and say he was abused by his father. what did you think when you heard that last night? >> oh, that was just confirmation. i mean, we were all kind of basically told at the same time, we heard about it the at the same time. we were looking at each other, we had suspected that but we had no evidence of it.
>> my colleague, lester holt with josh harper. what lies ahead for the victims after the verdict? does testifying help them or does it just reopen new wounds? we're going to talk to two attorneys who specialize in victim advocacy at the bottom of the hour. mitt romney is in park city, utah, hosting a retreat for 700 mega donors and strategists and republican bigwigs. among the special guests are some of romney's vp picks, tim pawlenty, rob portman, paul ryan and governor bobdy jindal. some of the other gop stars are karl rove, former florida governor jeb bush and former secretary of state condoleezza rice. president obama kept up the heat on mitt romney's business record, accused romney of being a job creator in other countries, that is. >> today it was reported in the "washington post" that the
companies his firm owned were pioneers in the outsourcing of american jobs to places like china and india. pioneers. let me tell you, tampa, we do not need an outsourcing pioneer in the oval office -- >> joining me now, national political reporter molly ball and white house reporter david nak muxt ra. that came in an article in your paper, if there were any internal deliberations about this strategy, are they history and will we hear a lot more about bain? >> absolutely. i think they are history, if there were any second guessing on this strategy. the president's campaign rolled out sort of an attack ad, attack line of attacks just a couple of months ago about bain and went very hard after romney's record there, arguing that he as
private equity firm took over other companies and allowed them to die off in some cases. the reason the obama campaign feels so strongly about this, romney is obviously trotted this experience out as success at bain and helping other companies turning other companies around. sort of the core why he's ready to be president at a time of great fiscal crisis in the country. what obama said yesterday in tampa, romney is experienced at making money for himself and making money for his friends and wall street but not for the country at large. by attacking romney and bain and talking about instances where the companies bain took over, either went overseas or ended up managing bankruptcies. obama is trying to create doubt among voters. >> nmolly let's listen to part f
marco rubio's speech. >> i was going to come here and rip off the policies, i was going to tell you he hasn't been here in three years, an election year. he was attempted to tell you, why didn't he make this issue a priority. >> he went on to say he preferred not to bring politics into the decision. can marco rubio help mitt romney at all on the immigration question? >> it's a similar attack you heard mitt romney laying out when he spoke to the audience the day before. it's the only argument he has, this new policy of the president's a very popular, both in the public at large and among hispanics. it is clearly political. it seems clearly like an election year move to get an important voting bloc on his side. romney has not laid out his own policy. he continues to avoid saying what he would do with or for the
illegal immigrants currently in the country, especially the so-called dream kids, those affected by the dream act or by the president's executive order. so they have chosen to attack the president for making a political move. the question is, given this political move is nonetheless popular, will that argument register at all or will people say, i don't care if this is political, i still like it. >> david, as we shift to the fast and furious investigation, republicans are criticizing the president for exercising executive privilege. what kind of political calculation went into the white house's decision to do that and did they see any advantage in this move? >> well, alex, this is a tricky proposition for the white house i think. on one hand you have congress breathing down their neck and republicans saying, turn over these documents, we want to see everything that went into the fast and furious and eric holder investigation here and they'll try to unearth as much
information as available. that could be damning to one of the top cabinet members. by keeping the documents hidden that raises other questions. the white house's calculation, if congress goes too hard and go through with a contempt vote with a full house, never done for an attorney general, that could boomerang back and the public could say, this is petty, republicans are going too far. that's the white house's hope that the public will see the need that of course the president and advisers have the right to some internal deliberations that shouldn't be compromised by the worry this becomes public. we're going to see this will continue to play out on both sides. >> molly, do you think it's possible the white house figured it can't lose with some members of congress, given congress's approval ratings in the tank? >> that is a part of it. this is another case where speaker boehner finds himself pushed into a conflict he didn't
necessarily want by the tea party elements of his caucus. any time the president can remind americans about the existence of those voices they feel like they win. david is exactly. right. you have to think there's something in the documents that is in the very least somewhat embarrassing for the white house, although we don't think at this point it was criminal necessarily. that they don't want to come out. even if they say they are standing on principal, it's not going to make them let good either. >> let's go quickly to the health care ruling expected from the freak as early as monday, at least by thursday. how are the sides expected to frame the ruling depending on how it falls? >> this is a real wild card. the white house is definitely been thinking for months about this. if the supreme court rules against the president's health care and strips it of the core elements, the white house will have to xramable to see how you talk about it.
there's some hope maybe that by talking about it directly, the president can sort of rally the base and get people fired up. i think that's an important element for the campaign. >> molly, i'm out of time, i have to ask quickly. condoleezza rice and jeb bush, either of them possible? >> they are not names you hear much about in the veep stakes. i would be surprised given that we don't know about the existence on the short list the romney campaign has. i think they are more there for their star power and to minger with donors and show republican unity. >> just asking. west coast headlines are next with a search for a sea monster. >> tax ma gedon, what it means for the wall ets of average joes. [ kate ] many women may not be properly absorbing
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♪ thank you, christian for those photos. some headlines from the west koext the san francisco chronicle has a front page story about how a global sea level rise could hit california harder than other states. seas around california will rise 3 feet before 2100. on the front page of the the world, a search for a sea monster. the expedition he took in search
for a kadbore sore is, the writer found nothing. the president spoke at the campaign rally in florida yesterday. >> we're going to reduce our deficit by $4 trillion. i have a detailed plan. we'll cut spending we can't afford and strengthen programs like medicaid for the long haul. we can reform our tax code in away that is fair and responsible. >> with the national debt spiraling upwards towards $16 trillion. it is an issue that literally grows worse by the second. joining me is dave walker, former u.s. controller junior and part of the comeback america initiative. first of all, you heard the president, a $4 trillion reduction, is that realistic and big enough dent? >> he's talking over a ten-year period of time and that's a problem because columbus proved a long time ago that the earth
is not flat. we need to be looking longer than ten years. his particular plan relies too much on taxes. takes social security off the table and frankly it's not politically feasible in its present form. >> what does the u.s. look like if tax mageddon happens. >> that would be about a 15 to 20% increase in the level of federal taxes in one year alone. it's not just a problem of taxes. we have a number of spending provisions that could be affected as well. the cbo has said, if we have both of those things happen, we're likely to return to recession. >> you know, dave, we hear these huge numbers, the sheer size of it makes it unrelatable on a personal level. can you tell us how the deficit affects your average joe and each individual's wall et.
>> deficits represent deferred tax increases unless there's a change of course. there's no free lunch. and the problem is not today's deficits and debt. the debt about $15.7 trillion. it's the huge unfunded obligations associated with medicare and other things that in total when you add everything up, 70 trillion dollars growing by 10 million a minute. >> okay. if you look at this as a triage situation, which do we first have to deal with, budget deficit or unemployment? >> we need to deal with both. we need to take steps to try to increase economic growth and reduce unemployment and underemployment. while at the same time dealing with structural reforms in our tax code, social security, medicare, medicaid, irrespective
what the supreme court decides on the affordable care act. we overpromised. we'll have to come back to costs. we need to do both in a grand bargain that is likely to take place in 2013. and it's important it does if we want to avoid a debt crisis in the u.s. >> thanks for returning to the show. we'll look forward to seeing you again. now to number five. there's a new theory about the meaning behind stone henge. a team of british researchers says the mysterious collection of stones was assembles as a sign of peace and unity and scholars say to move the stones would have required people to work together. it it is believed to be built 3,000 and 2500 bc. people with a machine.
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just past the half hour, new reaction following the guilty verdict in the jerry sandusky sex abuse case. the jury convicted the former coach on 45 out of 48 counts and he was taken immediately to jail. today one of the jurors is sharing details about the deliberations. >> it was just that, we looked at some inconsistencies and some of the testimony. we wanted to reconcile those and make sure that that was -- wouldn't discredit the testimony. we worked through those things systemically as a jury. we really worked together very well. and we were patient and we gave time. >> pennsylvania's attorney general and sandusky's defense
attorney both spoke out on the courthouse steps last night following the verdict. >> we had an uphill battle, i use the analogy that we were attempting to climb mount everest from the bottom of the mountain. >> although we know that the scars that the victims bear can't be erased by the events in a courtroom, we hope the outcome of this case not only allows these victims to heal and to begin the process of recovering and rebuilding their lives, but that it also encourages other victims of sexual abuse to come forward. >> joining me now, former child abuse and sex crimes prosecutor wendy murphy and founder of the research group and former prosecute b.j. bernstein. welcome back. you were so great last week. we heard from pennsylvania's attorney general there. is she right? does a guilty verdict help bring victims some kind of closure? >> it's a start.
and in every victim is different cand candidly. some it is closure and others it opens a pandora's box of emotion that has to be dealt with for years to come. it's an important stage but not the ultimate part of healing. >> here's what the attorney of victim four. >> my client approached two other young men and wanted to do one thing, wanted to apologize and let them know seize sorry he wasn't able to come forward sooner. this is a healing process where he'll confront some of the his demons. >> what a terrible thing for him to have to shoulder. what does a guilty verdict mean for the victims of a crime like this? >> well, i disagree a little bit with b.j. in the sense that although you can't think of the criminal justice system as therapy, it is almost invariably
a good experience win or lose, that's what the research tells us, that allowing kids to be respected and heard and allowing them that chance to confront somebody who has done such horrible things in a place of such importance as a courtroom, that alone can be probably the most important step towards healing. it's always a lifetime process of recovery. one of the things we should be saying about these young men, you are heroes. yes, we know you're suffering, we're going to hopefully help you get through that. it's likely to last a lifetime. let us celebrate you. other kids will come forward now, whether they are abused as individuals and institutional settings, whenever abuse is happening. more kids are going to say, that's what i did, i didn't tell right away. i stayed friendly with the perpetrator and he threatened me he would hurt me. he told me nobody would believe me. i should come forward because
that is a bunch of nonsense. i love the fact the result is here and love what it's doing to inspire virtually everybody i know who cares about kids to teach this as the model from which we should be empowering children everywhere. >> another thing to be concerned about though, what's your thought on the fact this may be the catalyst for these victims to experience ptsd? >> that's a very real part of it. i've worked with victims both in the criminal and civil end and you know, as they go along, it gets more complex for young men in particular. my male victims are so much harder to heal than the female. they get very confused about issues of sexuality. then the possibility of the bullying. we saw it in this very case. one of the victims, the community, it was known -- got known he was one of the victims accusing sandusky and he had to move to another school to finish off hi school. yes, i agree with wendy, the
adults are all on board but there's also those snarky messages and they make fun of. and that's something that has to be continued on. prosecutors and attorneys have gotten better about not just dropping the ball. when i started off 25 years ago, i think it was more like let's put the child up and pay for a little therapy and we're done. i think there's a realization that it is a longer process. that there can be severe trauma and also the risk that if they don't get the right treatment, they could in some circumstances offend themselves. >> wendy, why didn't the defense put jerry sandusky on the stand? did the threat of his adopted son matt as a rebuttal witness, did that impact the decision do you think? >> well, look, joe amendola didn't put jerry sandusky on the stand because he didn't want to be sued for malpractice. joe put him up with bob costas early on because he knew he
would never put him on the stand. that was how he was going to get him to testify indirectly to the jury that he was innocent. he was never going to take the stand. and he couldn't for reasons i think we can all appreciate. this was a monumentally strong prosecution case. jerry sandusky made unbelievable bad damning statements publicly that the prosecution used in its closing arguments. that was never going to happen. my question at this stage, why didn't jerry sandusky just plead guilty and throw himself on the mercy of the court. what did he get other than what he deserves, more shame and suffering. >> i have to say quickly, i was talking with another attorney about that earlier today. he suggested tchs because that meant he would get life in prison. and this was a gamble. it's what he's getting obviously
now. >> he was going to get life, 40 years, 500 years, he was never going to walk free anyway, i don't get it. >> wendy murphy and b.j. bernsteen. thanks so much. >> for more on the verdict, head to msnbc.com. let's head to the strategy talk. congress could go to a floor vote for contempt charges against eric holder from the fast and furious gun program. joining me is former rnc chairman michael steele and former dnc communications director and political analyst, karen finney. we're going to try to get a bipartisan agreement by the end of all of this. >> i don't think that's going to happen. >> i don't know. you got carekaren on the other . she's tough. >> we'll see. >> don't forget, they are going after eric holder because he is
supporting measures to overturn the voter suppression initiatives in the state. it is no accident, or coincidence, it is a plan on the part of republicans. >> what kind of plan? an easy way for republicans to score political points, charging a member of the cabinet with contempt? >> no, that dog won't hunt. there's no correlation or connection. she didn't give an example or evidence. she just made a charge. ya, she's nancy pelosi so you expect that. the reality is, there are legitimate concerns that it was presented to the congress and from the congress to the justice department. they want a legitimate investigation and remember, this thing started with bipartisan support, democrats and republicans making the inquiry of the justice department, exactly what happened here. how did this act die. what were the circumstances?
now this now leap frogging and trying to connect a dot to voter suppression charges by nancy pelosi is luncy. >> i spoke with peter welch and here's what he had to say. >> there's a legitimate aspect to the investigation that democrats are much in support of. this was a botched operation. we had an agent who died and we want to find out what happened. >> he went on to say that chairman darrel issa has gone too far. will this defense by the democrats, is that going to play with voters when they hear phrases like executive privilege or contempt of congress? >> absolutely. because actually, just want to go back to what michael said, the rest of what pelosi said is that democrats did support and continue to support the idea of this investigation. we all want guns off the street and want to know what happened. we all want closure for the
family. what we learned in the investigation that chairman issa won't tell you, number one, arizona atf agents have already said they have not briefed the senior obama administration officials of the gun walking program. when holder says he didn't know about it until 2011, you have atf agents on the record saying that but is sa won't let that come out. there's a memo to mukasey, the previous attorney general, talking about specifically the gun walking program. why hasn't mr. mukasey been brought in to testify? that's why democrats i think are continuing to push this. the facts don't match up here. this is clearly a partisan witch hunt with a very intentional goal of going after eric holder. >> michael, is chairman issa overplaying his hand given this did start during the bush administration? >> i don't think so. i think he's playing the hand with the cards he's been dealt in terms of what he's gotten from the justice department.
yes, and republicans and democrats alike acknowledge this program began under the bush administration but we're now looking at the events that occurred surrounding the last two or three years since the death of this atf agent. the reality is, let's get the facts out there -- >> no, michael, that's not what they are looking at now. what chairman issa has done and why the white house has exerted executive privilege, the initial request was for documents pertaining to what happened. he got those documents. over 7,000 pages. then there was the letter that was sent that has been discussed and the department of justice pulled that back. then issa asked for documents pertaining to why and how that letter got sent. those documents were turned over. nothing was found. again, to what you just said, why is it if we can agree this this started under bush, chairman issa won't allow democrats to call mukasey to the stand. why wouldn't we want to hear from mike mukasey, under whom
this started? >> can i ask -- very quickly, michael. >> that's probably true but that's going back in time before the events in question occurred. we're talking about the management under this administration. the bush administration had pretty much walked away -- >> michael, once they found out about this, chairman holder -- agent holder shut it down and started an investigation himself. why did the program start in the first place, it's valid to say. >> what do the parents of the border agent who was killed deserve from the justice department? they say they want answers. >> i think michael and i would agree, of course they deserve answers. >> absolutely. >> but the problem -- this is the point democrats have been making, what chairman issa is doing now has nothing to do with what actually happened. it has nothing to do with investigating how these guns got out there and how we can get the
guns off the street. that investigation was actually had been ongoing under ag holder because when he found out about the program he stopped it. >> i'm going to stop this here because we have a little bit of bipartisan agreement on the fact that the parents deserve an answer. i do appreciate from both of you, as always. number four in the first five stories trending the search is on for a $150,000 painting and the man police believe swiped it, it disappeared on tuesday. police released surveillance foemt toes of the suspect. a security guard wasn't looking and that is bolden. [ mechanical humming ]
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punch is hitting the box office. let's take a look. >> first foreign descendant and i'll be shooting for my own hand. >> it looks cute but is "brave" a must see or must avoid. kim serafin is joining me with the answer. does it deliver the goods? >> i'm going to say must see. it is not the best pixar film but it's a strong female lead. if they were too young for hunger games, this is the movie to see. princesses, kings, queens, witches and magic spells, a little bit different than the normal pixar movie. wids kill love it and visually stunning, emma thompson, great voices and acting. how about the quirky comedy
rather, "seeking a friend for the end of the world." we have steve carrell. must see or must avoid. >> i'll say must see. it's definitely quirky and unconventional. the end of the world is coming and asteroid is heading for earth in a few weeks earth will be destroyed. steve carrell with kira nightly, they go on a cross country trip. she's going to reconnect with her family. they encounter things along the way. some people are dealing with the end of the world different ways, mobs, rioting or having fun at tgi friday type places. but definitely quirky. i'm going to say must see. some people may not like it. if you love steve carrell, you can't go wrong. it is unconventional and quirky. woody allen, what do you think? >> especially for woody ael len fans, a must see. it's opening in limited release. it definitely deals with woody allen type of themes, alec
baldwin is aen architect and ro berto is in it. his vin yet is in italian. and penelope cruz is in it. it brings different stories all taking place in rome. you have -- typical woody allen story, not one of his best but it's a great woody allen movie if you like woody allen. >> kim serafin, thanks as always. lolo jones advanced to the semifinals in the 100 meter hurdles at the track and field trials in oregon and came in third in her heat. her next race is later today and hoping to qualify for her second straight olympics. go lolo. lls plays a key role throughout our entire lives. ♪ one a day women's 50+ is a complete multi-vitamin
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megan mccain followed the tour on her father's campaign bus. it chronicles a trip she took with a liberal comedian where they went everywhere from the white house to local olive garden and met everyone from gun lovers to pro-choice activists. joining me is megan mccain, co-author of the newly released "america you sexy pitch", a love letter to freedom. and that's the last time i'm going to say that. it's one of these hot topic books. what you did with michael ian black. you guys made quite the couple this interesting comedic liberal and then there's you, the conservative commentator. how did you find each other? how did you get along? >> we actually -- when we first went on the road trip, we didn't get along at all. i said it was the longest first date of my entire life. didn't know each other at all. we've become quite good friends, with anyone you spend a month with.
my liberal brother from another mother at this point. >> who did you talk to? >> we went to almost 20 different states and talked to everything from exotic dancers, muslims, canny bus users, politicians, hard core christians, hard core orthodox jewish people. every kind of person we could find. truck drivers, women truck drivers, which was interesting. >> that is, yeah. >> we wanted to get a taste of what was going on in america. we fell disillusioned, me working in media, sometimes you feel disattached. >> i want to pick up on that. when you get outside the beltway, do you find americans care as much about politics the way we tend to obsess on it? >> no, i don't find americans care so much about this small 24-hour news cycle tid bits we obsess over. but i found americans to be well informed and a lot angrier than i anticipated. they felt the media wasn't necessarily representing them.
a lot more in the middle than they were very left or right. >> did you find a common theme you could say this is something the media does or does not pick up on? >> i feel the american dream is alive and well. america's best days are behind us and we're still not a shining beac beacon. i interviewed people a few days ago, everyone i talked to, i still take the freedom i get in this country over any place else. >> was what you learned different when you got out away from the bus, away from sort of the campaign that your father was doing? i know you were participating in that. when you got out there, it you hear different mixed messages? >> on this trip? >> yeah. >> when i was with my father, it was like a republican bubble. it kind of came as a shock to me when my father lost. not complete by but i was surprised because i had been meeting supporters. on this trip people were not sensored about me -- the term 1%
hadn't been coined but there were a lot of people how could you possibly understand where i'm coming from. you couldn't understand my life, which was good to have michael around to sort of like make them feel more comfortable. >> a road trip like this can't be without crazy stories. is there one great one that stands out that you can share? >> it's a little racy of a book. i took michael shooting in the desert, the first time he shotguns anywhere. didn't understand the nra and second amendment rights now he loves gun culture and i totally converted him. one of the things i'm most proud of. >> megan mccain, we're proud for you to have a new book. america,ou sex y "b", a love letter to freedom. martin bashir tells us a love story. ♪
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sandusky is on suicide in his pennsylvania jail cell sean could face more charges. he was found guilty on 45 of 48 counts of sexually abusing young boys. crowds gathered outside that courthouse in bellefonte, pennsylvania after the verdict. prosecution and defense teams reacted. >> one of the recurring themes of the witnesses' testimony, which came from the voices of the victims themselves in this case was who would believe a kid? and the answer to that question is, we here in bellefonte, pennsylvania would believe a kid. >> said that we had a tidal wave of public opinion against jerry sandusky. jerry indicated he was disappointed by the verdict but obviously he has to live with it. >> joining me now joey jackson and former prosecutor karen de
so soto. we talked about this case in the past few weeks, any surprises with the results? >> none at all. i'm actually surprised it took as long for the jury to deliberate but obviously this was no shocker. we saw the mountain -- just reading the indictment, alex was mind boggling at the level of detail. i don't think anyone is surprised by this verdict. >> how about this, the reports about jerry sandusky's adopted son saying he would come forward and could serve as rebuttal witness. do you think going forward now, new allegations will be brought against jerry sandusky, a new trial? >> it would be pointless. first of all, there's a legal side and hul an side. from a human side everyone wants justice and should get it. but the reality is, he's going to be in jail for the rest of his life. so you have to ask yourself if you're a prosecutor, is it time foreclosure and moving on or should we pile bad after bad. i think they are satisfied that
the jury resoundingly, not surprisingly, convicted him of virtually everything. and by virtue of that, facing 442 years in jail. it's time to heal and move forward. >> i spoke karen with the attorney for victim number four. i'll going to play a good chunk of what we talked about earlier on the show. >> it is an extremely emotional night for my client. he was driving home from a friend's house, listening to the radio. and right before the verdict was announced over the radio, he was actually driving through a patch where he didn't get reception. so he had to call his girlfriend to find out what the verdict was. but his reaction was he really felt vindicated, that the jurors had listened to his story and validated him. >> talk about the damage inflicted on your client as a result of the actions. he over the years was described as having among the most contact with jerry sandusky and not just
in the disgusting way we've all come to be familiar with, but he actually took his girlfriend to dinner with sandusky apparently. was it a sense of trying to grasp a sense of normalcy? what was that about with him? >> well, i think mr. sandusky reached out to my client and essentially, you know, my client viewed himself as an extension of that family. mr. sandusky traveled extensively with him. he invited him to family functions. he took him to the hotel where players stayed overnight the night before a game. he really felt like he was almost one of the sandusky family members and the relationship lasted for several years. >> you've said for a time your client was also racked with guilty about coming forward, testified that he wanted to bury forever these horrible memories and agreed to testify only after the police literally hunted him down. >> talk about that emotion and
how your client came to change his mind. >> well, you know, my client was identified by the police. he was -- his picture is in the books that mr. sandusky's books and you know, it's interesting that the police actually found him and when the police found him and asked if they could speak with him, he was so overcome with emotion, that the officer who found him actually testified in court that he was in the fetal position on the couch of his house when he first spoke with authorities. >> this began when he was 11 or 12 years old. and did he express fear of jerry sandusky to you during that time when they had contact when he was being abused? >> well, i think -- it's interesting the dynamic that he had with jerry and he testified, in public, he felt like jerry held him out as a son. but in private, he felt that jerry treated him as his
girlfriend. i think during those times when they were in private, you know, and jerry treated him as my client testified as his girlfriend. that was the difficult time for him. and as a young boy, 11, 12, 13 years old, you don't know how to process that when a man is taking advantage of you in that matter. >> what's your reaction? civil action, might there be that forthcoming? >> penn state as acknowledged they will try to settle up cases. in 2001, everything after 2001 they had knowledge. also the attorney for penn state was also the attorney for first mile. they were coordinated -- >> second mile. >> yeah. so there's a lot of things in there. he's absolutely right. this is like -- the only way i can describe victims of sexual abuse, it's like murdering a child's soul. they are never quite the same ever. so it's very hard in cases where either you're a prosecutor or criminal defense attorney because you really can't measure
ever the damage that's done to a child because you don't know. >> and karen mentioned penn state will try to settle up things. what about jerry sandusky's wife and her assets, could civil united states go after this. >> absolutely. this is riveting and gut wrenching. people hate this. you could see that from the emotion outside the courtroom with everyone gathering and saying things we can't repeat on tv. now that the criminal element of it and aspect is over, we're going to see a tax on his assets and rightfully so, the family, penn state, everybody is in on this. whatever the law establishes -- >> other criminal charges pending, two administrators going on trial for third degree crimes. >> in our system of justice, that's the way rewe reward people, money. it doesn't bring back anything. it murders your soul but the money is not going to help that. in our system it will competent
them for what they should be rightfully be entitled -- >> is this a point you thought was a standout money. >> the mother was on the stand and describing how she would ask her son for the underwear and he would say he had accidents when he was bleeding. that at that moment, that was awful. i mean, at that moment, it was over, i'm sure if i was in the courtroom at that moment, the jurors are probably like, that's it. >> that's about all we can handle listening to this. thank you both. as always. >> the family of joe paterno released this statement following the verdict. although we understand the task of healing is just beginning, today's verdict is an important milestone. the community owes a measure of gratitude to the jurors for their dill yent service. our thoughts and prayers continue to be with the victims and their families. the accusations of sex abuse led to the firing of joe paterno. he passed away of lung cancer in january. let's take a look at the front page headlines about the
sandusky verdict. the tribune review in greensburg, with a picture of san dugsky in handcuffs. and the front page of the pittsburgh post gazette, guilty on 45 counts. similar headlines tops the altoona mirror, child sex abuser faces life in prison. you can log on to msnbc.com for more. >> mitt romney is in park city, utah, for the first day of his donor weekend retreat. invits were given to contributors who raised tens of millions of dollars for romney and the rnc. also those attend are tim pawlenty, rob portman, congressman paul ryan and bobby jindal. marco rubio is not attending, saying he chose to spend time with his kids instead. speaking to hispanic leaders on friday, he bolstered romney's
message to latino voters that it's not all about immigration. >> one of the things that frustrates me, when people speak to hispanics and latinos, only want to talk about immigration. we worry about making payroll and balancing our family's budget and the schools our kids go to and whether tomorrow will be better for them than it's been for us. >> meanwhile, president obama tried out a new attack line, speaking to students in tampa, invoking a new "washington post" report the president called romney a pioneer of outsourcing. joining me for more, political columnist for the "washington post" dana milbank and andy kroul. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> dana, after the president spoke at the conference there in florida, he stuck around for that campaign rally. florida, of course, a crucial state. the latest poll shows the president up 12 points, what do you think is behind the bump?
could it be the immigration message? >> it could be a little bit of that, alex. you've got to be careful reading too much into any poll. it may have nothing to do with anything like gas prices falling, that can reflect just as much. the immigration message is particularly important there in florida. and it also is shifted the national debate away from the economy where the president is weak. it's had both of those effects and presumably that has something to do with his bump there. again, we could be talking about something -- it could be entirely different in another week or two. you don't want to get too carried away. >> do you see florida as being a must-win for romney? how concerned is the romney camp with the latest numbers and any way to chip away at the gap among the latino voters? >> mitt romney's path, 270 electoral college votes is a narrow one and campaign aides have said over and over it goes through florida and ohio and
those are absolutely must-win states for him. one statistic, dana said, you don't want to read too much into one poll, one statistic that was interesting was that mitt romney had an advantage among independents in florida by 8% points and that's switched to 9 for independence for obama. it's something the romney campaign will have their eye on and be thinking about talking about immigration policy and the economy and thinking about how to peel away latino voters in a state like florida. >> dana, mitt romney with the big donor right now, what do you make of the optics of is this, given they are in the deer valley area, do you think this plays into the framing of a candidate that is well off and any way to avoid that? >> it's better than having it at bain world headquarters or something. but of course, this is going to feed into the reputation that
governor romney has developed. now, look, both candidates are going to need to be doing obscene amounts of fund raising and the people you're raising money from tend to be the wealthy folks. just as the president has to be out in hollywood with george clooney raising money. romgny has to be doing this because running for president is almost entirely about raising this money. yes, it's an evil but it's a necessary evil for him. >> andy, you have the new article on the secret fund raising and rise of citizens united. democrats are going to be outspent by massive republican super pacs. how is it different from the advantage the president enjoyed back in 2008? >> in 2008 you had the president essentially kill off any attempts from groups that were in part connected to his campaign, outside groups. they had his campaign kill off those groups. they wanted a tight control over the message. they wanted to raise their own money. didn't want to have independent
political operatives doing it for them. well, you have the citizens united decision and array of other court decisions andle rules of the game have changed. president obama has gone from a critic of super pacs to half heartedly reluctantly endorsing the super pac supporting him. jim macena is saying the president will be the first incumbent in history to be outspent. both sides are raising insane amounts of money, rather for super pacs or secret non-profits like karl rove's cross roads gps group. seeing as much as a billion dollars could be spent, including the romney campaign. just on all-out money war from so many different groups. >> condoleezza rice, jeb bush, both at the romney retreat. could either of them be a dark horse pick for the vp spot? does it matter both have ties to george w. bush are they carved
out personal identities that take them away from the former president? >> i don't think that's the problem, they didn't even want to run for president so it would be surprising if they want to be second on the ticket there. this is the season the veepstakes when we're all doing a lot of guessing as we saw with these reports with mark rubio. within hours, he is being vetted. there's one guy who knows what's going on here and he's con fiding in one other person. neither of them is telling anybody. we request say pretty much anything we want now with absolute confidence that we have no idea what's going to happen. >> oh, my gosh, that was brutally honest. we're going to quickly switch to the fast and furious investigation with you, andy, because we have attorney general eric holder who could face a contempt vote as early as tuesday. the democrats tried to paint it as a distraction. but isn't it a black eye for the administration? >> it's a problem that won't go away. they can thank mr. issa and the
house of representatives for that. i think it's -- it's become so much political theater and the obama administration is trying to shoe it away as an attempt to give the administration a black eye. and holder has gone before the investigative committee in the house and he has said he's been as forthright as possible and tried to put this thing away and put this thing aside. the republicans, they love this issue. it's their new sort of decree decore and they going to be hammering holder on it as long as they possibly can and by any means necessary. >> thank you guys, appreciate it. >> thanks, alex. next the politics of health care, what's going to be the big winner? some answers next.
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next year as early as monday the supreme court will announce its ruling on the health care reform law. the high court decision could have a major impact on the presidential election in november as president obama seeks to defend one of his signature pieces of legislation. joining me is eleanor clist, covering the impact for the decision and the daily beast. good to see you. >> glad to be with you, alex. >> you look at both how both parties are mobilizing for the ruling. how are president obama and mitt romney's campaigns positioning themselves? >> i think the campaigns do not expect a clean decision, an up or down decision. they think that the court is going to slice and dice this in
a variety of ways. i think the white house and the obama campaign if the court leaves any part of the act standing, the president will declare victory. and then he will urge congress and insurance companies to step up to fill whatever void is left by a court decision. on the republican side, i think they are wary of saying anything in first 24 hours that they may live to regret. you could see this in the -- the republican candidate in indiana, richard more dak, his campaign accidentally put on his website, three different statements dependi depending on what they thought the court may decide, being critical on every instance, except if the entire act is struck down. both sides are trying to figure out what to say and how to game out whatever the political fallout might be. >> i'm going to throw a little political cynicism your way.
is it better for president obama's re-election campaign if the court rules against health care? >> i think it's better if they rule for it. but if they rule against it, and it's a 25-4 with all five republican appointed judges striking down the act, it will look highly political. respected pollster, peter hart who everybody in washington knows, democratic pollster. >> yeah. >> says it could be the catalyst that rallies young people, poor people, minorities, because it would look like extraordinary obstruction on the part of the supreme court. >> so making this a win-win situation for the president then? >> i think the white house is going to try to frame it that way and so are the republicans. and i think there will be a real race to frame the decision. the decision is likely to have a number of different components. i talked to ron poll ak with
families usa, supports the act. he has seven different statements prepared. insurance reforms in the act, expansion of medicaid. there are a number of different ways and the various justices may all have something to say. i think the race will be as to which campaign frames whatever the results are and i think aside from the substance, how they are able to portray this very critical decision to the american people could definitely impact on the campaign. >> critical indeed. but all of the recent major polls find a majority of americans are against this loss. how do you think that affects the president's reaction? does he skip a victory lap entirely despite getting the political win? >> i think he will feel validated and they'll do a more intense job pointing out to the american people some of the benefits they've gotten from the law which people don't associate
with the act. if any of that is struck down, people will notice. then that will be i think the political football for the rest of the year, whether young people can stay on their parents insurance policy but more importantly the whole issue of preexisting conditions. if this act is not upheld, people will be at the mercy of insurance companies once again. while the republican mantra is repeal and replace, they haven't come up with anything to replace it. substantively and politically, if this act is really seriously dismantled, there will be pandemonium. >> thank you for joining us. on a girl note, really cute pink polka dot thing going on there. >> thank you. >> she's become the world's most famous bus monitor who may never have to work another day in her life. you'll meet the man who's making that happen. throughout our entire lives. ♪
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right now the money pot is still rising for the school bus monitor bullied by students. todays over the $600,000 mark. it started from this video that went viral of karen klein sitting on the box when four boys insulted her with insults. supporting a rally with karen and earlier i talked with matt sid of who told me why he organized the fund raising campaign. >> i felt so shocked, so shocked at what these kids are doing, so sad for karen. i've had bullying experiences myself so i know how bad it feels when you're being bullied. >> get this. someone else started a fundraiser to reward max and that is already up to $5,000. look at that.
i guess no good deed goes unrewarded here. martin bashir and office politics on a love story with family ties. [ kate ] many women may not be properly absorbing the calcium they take because they don't take it with food. switch to citracal maximum plus d. it's the only calcium supplement that can be taken with or without food. that's why my doctor recommends citracal maximum. it's all about absorption. that's why my doctor recommends citracal maximum. cuban cajun raw seafood pizza parlor french fondue
this technology allows us to collaborate with our drivers to make a better experience for our customers. [ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better. ♪ welcome back. at 33 past the half hour, time for fast five headlines, turkey is vowing to take what it calls necessary action against syria in response to syria shooting down a turkish air force jet that had just entered syrian air space. as yet, no word on what action turkey might take. it's day five of a sit-in at cairo's tahrir square. they are demanding an end to military rule. near salt lake city, a wind whipped wildfire has driven 8,000 people from their homes and that fire is burning within an mile of a explosives factory. at kristi's an copy has
soelds for $9.8 million, the buyer will donate it to a new library dedicated to the study of the first president. mugly, the ugliest dog. he won the honor in northern california. mugly beat out 28 other ugly canines across the world. those are your fast five headlines. the big three money headlines, summer slide, health care cash and mcdonald's truth in advertising. joining me now is the "black market billions", thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> the gas prices are finally starting to slide. why is this happening and how low might they go? >> right now saudi arabia is having an over abundance of oil and they believe it will continue until november. you see what's happening in europe. there's an economic slowdown and this is all having a major
impact on gas prices. analysts are expecting the prices to come down to $2.50 by november. what we're seeing now, in the last month, 6% of a drop in gas prices and it's 49 cents down from its peak back in april. >> that is pretty good news dispute it being summer travel season. what about americans who may be getting money back from the health insurance companies? tell us about that. >> this is a big one. insurance companies are about to give out rebates for about a billion dollars for 12.8 million americans in the united states. the average rebate that is going to be given back is about $135. it really depends on which state you're going to be in. some states for vermont, for example, the average family will get back $807. new mexico though, those families may be out of luck. only about actually nothing, they are getting back nothing in new mexico, zero.
>> that's not good for those folks there. how about mcdonald's canada, interestingly talking about the difference between the burgers you buy and ones you see on the commercials. here it is. >> the exact same patties, it's the exact same ketchup and mustard and onions and exact same buns. almost ready for you, neil. >> we want to show the pickles and condy meants as we build. in the store they would line up straight in line. we have to bring it back a little bit -- >> does this have anything to do with a new survey that's out? >> they are probably on a major campaign to get the customer behind the curtain. the survey came out, called the american customer satisfaction index. and mcdonald's has ranked consistently lowest on that index with the exception of 2009 when they beat out kentucky fried chicken and papa jones, they came in at 73% this year.
this is the highest they've ever been. right now they are going to spend almost a billion dollars in revamping all of their stores and putting in wi-fi and mctv in all stores so people can treat it like a cafe. this clip we just saw, everyone knows that everything is photo shopped. you get a burger from mcdonald's it doesn't look like that at all, what you saw on television. >> sounds like they are taking a playbook out of starbucks but that's my assessment. we appreciate your time. >> thanks for having me. office politics, now msnbc's martin bashir talks about big moves he is making in his professional and personal lives. i asked what role he thinks the economy will play in the election. >> it's a weird thing, you know, alex. people keep telling me it's abt the economy. and that's in the present. but i've always felt that big elections are also fought on the
future. what's your vision? what are you proposing for the country? and when you look and try and scrutinize what mitt romney is proposing for the nation, if you actually look at it carefully, scrutinize it and analyze it, i'm not convinced that the vast majority of people in the country would ever benefit. the president is a man that literally embodies the american dream, the idea that you can go from nothing, from a family that is broken. you can be moved around as a child. you can be mixed race and not be the beneficiary of lots of money and by sheer efforts you can become president of the united states. when i look at that, and i begin to think, what does that say about the future, you look at the economy and you say, yes, things are difficult. but we just had the worst recession since the great depression. we've had a global meltdown. a lot of that has got nothing to
with this president. when you look at what they stand for and how they point to the future, there's this moment, the kind of fight isn't there in the consciousness of america. do you want a country that's entirely that can release people's talents so they can achieve great things? that's one these sis. on the other hand, do you want to live in a country that does account for those that can't make that step for themselves. there's this tension and it existed forever, between whether we help those who are in need or whether we decide to focus all of our attention on those able and cape able to do great things. >> with this new time zone, gives you more time to do things like office politics? >> no, i mean, look, the network is growing and at this point, in terms of broadcasting and media, we probably are one of the few places in this country that is
even able to experiment with this kind of thing and grow. there are not many places that are. most of the colleagues i've left in other broadcasting companies have seen all of their staffs reduced and the reduction in investment. >> what have you learned about american television and the time you've been here? owning this show -- >> the things i've learned doing this show, it's been like a post graduate degree in political history. i think also, the other thing that we've tried to bring out is that democracy is a precious, precious thing. but, it has to be expedited in a way that's fair. and one of things that's been concerning us recently and we've covered quite a lot of, have been a number of republicans who have been trying to use different techniques to suppress the vote in areas like florida, and texas. doing things that are actually
not american, because what america is about is the beauty of that democracy. >> when you're not working on your show i now one thing that's happening in your life, that gorgeous girl -- >> phoebe. >> what's all that about? are you comfortable becoming a father-in-law? >> it's tough. she's only 21. i was 22 when i got married, i was quite young as well. we just celebrated our 26th wedding anniversary. >> bravo. >> phoebe has graduated just graduated in psychology in neuroscience and she's -- she met someone at the university. they fell in love and they've been in a relationship for over two years. and they really want to make this commitment to each other. the wedding is on the 21st of july in england and i'll be walking her up the aisle which will be painful. i found it difficult to come to terms with.
i've got three children, the idea of handing over my little girl, kind of tough. >> our conversation with martin continues at this time tomorrow. he'll talk about how the european markets could hit con taigon level. and don't forget, martin's show moves to 4:00 p.m. beginning monday right here on msnbc. next on the big three, the donor retreat, the rewards and risks. could it back fire on him? you're watching "alex witt." [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool if we took the nissan altima and reimagined nearly everything in it? gave it greater horsepower and best in class 38 mpg highway... ...advanced headlights... ...and zero gravity seats? yeah, that would be cool. ♪ introducing the completely reimagined nissan altima. it's our most innovative altima ever.
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dell perceo. thanks for being here. susan, i want you to listen part of president obama's weekly address and we'll react on the other side. >> right now we're serve days away from ar thousands of workers having to work off the job because congress hasn't passed a transportation bill. we're eight and a half days from students seeing loan rates double because congress hasn't acted to stop it. this makes no sense. >> busy with a contempt vote for the attorney general, might this be a miscal laks, going after the justice department instead of what some would say are more pressing issues? >> they are working on other issues, this just happens to be the one that garners a lot more press attention. that's what the gop are after by
holding eric holder in contempt. the senate hasn't acted on over 20 bills that congress has sent over. they haven't come up with their own budget in three years. and add to that, this didn't cast one vote for president obama's budget. both houses are to blame. >> you don't see this as any political miscal lags. >> everything is a political maneuver. republicans and democrats, everything have a political maneuver. >> congress's approval rating is at 17%. youch, according to the latest gallup poll. >> both sides are very well aware of that. the problem it looks like darrel issa, the chairman of the committee conducting the investigation looks like he has an axe to grind with the white house. that's a big part of the
problem. house republicans are defending what they are doing in terms of what susan just said, saying they are trying to pass other bills. but it's not coming through and based on what the president said in his address this weekend, it's clear that's how democrats are going to go after house republicans, that they are not focused on anything else. >> shouldn't the president exercise this executive privilege with regard to fast and furious? couldn't it raise the question about what he knew and when he knew it and make this all the more complicated? >> asserting executive privilege doesn't mean he's involved. the white house has complied and turn over 7,000 documents -- relating to fast and furious program and testified over ten times. they've complied and this is clearly a political witch hunt and darrel issa says as much several months ago. >> reality and what's the perception of it is what i'm talking about here. there's no implication of the president -- no one is accusing that. don't you think for some it will look that way, what did he know? why are they covering this up?
>> maybe people on the far right who believe that the president was born in kenya and is a muslim, yeah. for the most part, people will see this as a side show, distracting from doing something for the middle class. there's a transportation bill that's collecting dust in the house that had bipartisan support in the senate and create 2 million jobs and the house hasn't done anything on it. that's what the american people care about, not these distractions. >> okay. susan, mitt romney is using this big donor retreat in park city, utah over the weekend to of course get money. are you concerned about the optics of this? you look at park city and deer valley, very posh resorts and how this might paint him from being out of touch with middle class americans? >> perhaps for the weekend it will be an issue. but there's no surprise to anybody there's money in politics, an awful lot of money in surprise to anybody that there's lots of money in politics, and they expect this. maybe president obama wouldn't have the problems he's having in fundraising because that's the
knock on him, he never took care of the people that supported him in 2008. >> karl rove slt athe adviser t hopefuls. can we assume he's going to have a talk about strategy? how thin is this? >> it's paper thin. the law states that campaigns and super pacs cannot expressly coordinate. but in this retreat they're having, the romney campaign is holding strategy sessions for donors who raised or help raise more than $50,000 for the romney campaign. now, people who attend those strategy sessions can go to any super pac official and say what they've learned. the romney campaign is very good at going to water's edge and getting as close around it as they can. >> i want to play you something that joe scarborough said earlier in the week. let's take a listen to this.
>> bob kerry four years ago said democrats are the biggest hypocrites in the world for remaining silent while barack obama would have 2 million campaign ads in virginia to every one of mccain's. >> they pointed to all the super pacs that would be flooding the airwaves. is it hypocritical to complain about the fundraising disparate this year when back in 2008 the president became the first president to opt out of public financing and have a huge advantage? >> i don't really see this as complaining. i think what they're doing is sending a message to their donors, their supportives, progressives that, look, you all need to get involved because we are going to be outspent by a lot of these secret super pacs that exist on the right, things like crossroads. i don't see it as complaining, i see it as sending a signal and sounding the alarms that, look, we need all of you to come back and help us because we are going to be vastly outspending.
>> and you need to give to the democrat super pacs is basically what they're asking for now. >> and as far as utah, it's not surprised romney is taking care of his base, and that's what these people are. >> okay, sit tight. next with the big three. we continue with the weeks's best and worth here on "weekend with alex witt." tain blocker. each coat works three times harder, priming, covering, and blocking stains. let's go where no paint has gone before, and end up some place beautiful. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. right now at the home depot, buy four gallons of paint and get the fourth one free.
back with the big three, it's time for the best and worst. i was saying we have to make this quick. erin, what do you think, best and worst week? >> best, mark rubio who got himself on to mitt romney's short list and showed his power with the republican base as well as a dependence because of his stance on immigration. and worst is mitt romney for the very same reasons. >> okay. doug, your thoughts, best and worst week? >> my best is the obama campaign for putting mitt romney on the defensive on immigration and exposing him as a pioneer in outsourcing. and my worst is the sick,
twisted jerry sandusky who hopefully will spend the rest of his life in jail. >> yeah, please. let's get to you, susan. we're going to finish with your best and worst. >> best week, attorney general linda kelly. she did a terrific job of getting the sandusky trial through. and if you think about it, it took about six or seven months, which is unusual, and they did a fantastic job and got, of course, the right results. and the loser of the week is eric holder. once they hold you in contempt, that's not great, and what's worse, they had to ask their boss to cover them. >> guys, thanks so much. have a good one. all of you have a good one, too, as this wraps up "weekend with alex witt." we'll be back tuesday. i won't be here but i might be watching. i might be calling the booth and saying, what's up with that? anyway, have a good one. with the spark cash card from capital one,
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he has identified himself as one of jerry sandusky's victims, sexually abused as a young boy. he is one of the very first to speak publicly and tonight he told his story to kate snow. >> if jerry sandusky were standing here. >> i would punch him in the mouth. >> would you say anything first? >> no. he knows what he did. >> what jerry sandusky did was sexually abuse him more than 100 times. >> it's almost an unbelievable story. >> i was scared to say anything. also tonight, it's a christmas story that people across the country reacted to. a mother who lost three of her children and both of her parents in a christmas morning house fire, and yet she survived. tonight her exclusive interview with matt lauer. >> i woke up and i was choking. i realized there was a fire. >> did you hear smoke detectors? >> now she's consumed by questions. who is to blam