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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  June 28, 2012 7:00pm-8:00pm EDT

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strike over the plate following bush-gore and citizens united. let's start by looking at this bold, defiant, grand decision by mr. robes and his supreme court. he and four liberal justices uphelded the health care bill. the provision that said people have to get health care or pay a penalty. these five justices ruled it constitutional. pete williams is nbc justice correspondent, i want to ask you the big question of the day. chief justice roberts appointed by president george w. bush. why did he do what he did today? >> we can't say that for sure. we can only look at his words. i think you have to go back to when the case was argued to say that while justice roberts did have some skepticism, there were also questions that he asked that indicated he might support the law. so it's not a huge stunner in that sense because he in essence had signalled that he might do it. i think you have to say this is really two decisions. first of all, the supreme court with justice roberts joining with the four conservatives agreed with one of the
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central conservative criticisms of this law which is one of the main defenses that the obama administration had mounted. that congress had no power under the commerce clause to do this. constitution, remember, congress has the power to quote, regulate commerce. the opponents said if you don't have insurance, therefore you can't be regulated, this is beyond congress' power. chief justice roberts agreed with that criticism along with the other fourç justices. there were five votes for that proposition. but the chief justice said it doesn't stop there. because the obama administration had made this second argument that congress had the power under its very broad taxing authority and that's where the chief found common ground with the four liberals on the court to say it's constitutional. so legally, the guts of the law are left in tact. the only real change that today's decision made is to the medicaid side of the law. the states had argued that by being forced to either accept all these new medicaid requirements, if they said no, the federal government said okay
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fine then you're out of medicaid. and that's where the court said no, you can't go that far. >> so we have a major decision by the chief justice who said it was constitutional in what he did because of the taxing authority. let's goe to ted kennedy. the usual swing vote, supreme court, who basically succeeded i look into one was the laurence case and here it seemed he was following that libertarian approach. remember the old phrase keep the bedroom out of the board room. he seems he's against big rights for a big government. he didn't go with this taxes authority recognition by the chief justice. >> i think that's a very fair reading, chris, of what he said. and that's also consistent with the concerns he expressed during the oral argument of this case. he thought this was a vast overreaching by congress. he joined his conservative
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colleagues in saying so today. >>ç well said. pete were you're the best. i was watching you go through it. by the way, i think our ties are in total agreement today. which is one of the other strange phenomenon. let's turn to what this means to the presidential race. i think it means a lot. this is one of the reasons i love this job. don't you? you wouldn't want to be sitting home somewhere at some starbucks right now. you'd want to be doing this. the importance of this. let's go upside/downside. had the president lost this fight. >> if he lost it his re-election chances were close to nil. he's the change agent. this is the big bet. this is the thing he staked his first term on. had it been thrown out by the supreme court, it would have been terrible. there's nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at --
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>> i was thinking of that one. >> to be shot at without result. >> yes. that's what i was thinking of today. >> wow. >> except i don't like to use ballistic language when talking about the president. >> it's a huge jolt of electricity and energy. >> so true. embroidered again for our progressive viewers to tell them it's one of the nba seventh game o of the series. but it's the whole game. >> it's the seventh game in this term. virtually no republicans in congress ever supported this. he now has the bipartisan of onç republican apointed major figure 37 chief justice john roberts. you kbt go bigger than john roberts. >> let's take a look here. shortly after the court's decision was released. and chuck said this today. chuck todd. the better the decision, the faster the president's response. here he was at high noon today. let's listen to the president.
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>> earlier today the supreme court upheld the constitutionality of the affordable care act. the name of the health care reform we passed two years ago. in doing so, they've reaffirmed a fundamental principle that here in america in the wealthiest nation on earth, no illness or accident ould lead to any family's financial ruin. i know the debate over this law has been divisive. i understand the concern millions of americans have shareholder. i know a lot of coverage is focused on what it means politically. well, it should be pretty clear by now i didn't do this because it was good politics. i did it because i believed it was good for the country. i did it because i believed it was good for the american people. >> a quiet little chuckle there today. because it's running the mandate which is the mainring of this bill which was approved by the main court is running at 30%. obama's a lot better than 30%.
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>> yeah. look. there's no question. it's a huge victory. on political grounds it's better than the alternative. but nothing that happened today made the law more popular. the law is still really ç unpopular. there are some pieces of it that are kind of popular, but much of it -- talk to democratic pollsters about this law. >> don't be debbie downer here. let me ask a question. you said preferable. if this had gone down today, this would have been toilet talk. >> i thi -- from the romney campaign's point of view being able to stand up and say the president wasted a year and a half during economic crisis and passed a law that was unconstitutional would have been a huge political win for the romney campaign and a devastating political loss for the obama administration. we are now going to have a fight for three months over this law. >> you think? >> absolutely. the romney campaign thinks they
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still have a huge chance. they are going to run -- >> okay. we're going to go -- we're going to do a segment on that whether romney thinks this is a chain he wants to rattle. >> as unpopular as the individual mandate is in the otherwise somewhat popular piece by piece health care law, president obama would prefer a three-month argument on this to a three-month how the economy is. >> romney would much rather talk about jobs. but i don't think he's going to back off about this. if it's polling 70-30. >> he created the model for this thing. he gets 60 votes in the senate to do that. all thisç b.s. about he's goin to repeal. it takes 60 votes to create and i believe 60 votes to decreate. >> they can still do
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reconciliation. they did it. the democrats passed with reconciliation. there's no reason you can't repeal with reconciliation. >> they passed with 60 votes. wait a minute. stop. you forget history here? 60 votes. >> i recall the reconciliation process. >> they never used reconciliation. they got specter and the democrats from maine. >> i was just going to say that the -- i forgot what i was going to say because i was so damned excited. >> i am too. a he's the only guy not excited. you say game change, this is game change. >> mitt romney, this is great for mitt romney to solidify the base. that's true. he's going to talk about taxes. he's going to say this is tax, you call it a finance a tax. and mitt romney came out today stood in front of the capitol and said barack obama is going to tax you more, et cetera. if mitt romney chooses to focus on the health care bill for the next three months, he will be taking off the table his number
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one argument to be elected which is the -- barack obama has blown it on the economy. >> by the way, not to get too tough with you. as mclaughlin would say, there's an element of truth to what you say. if this is held up as a tax, then reconciliation is adequate to get rid of it. you reduce the tax rate to zero. you can move numbers aren't. you can't create or decreate whole programs. >> if you don't think the republicans if theyç get contr of the senate will try to repeal this law, i think it's crazy to think they won't try to do that. they hate this law and will try to repeal it. >> the fact is polls show health care is number four or five on people's concerns about what's number one in their minds. that's the problem. >> the unemployment rate gets down to 7.5%, they won't talk about anything. here's the president talking about the decision only further energying the party further. so republicans are making the best of this. they're making lemonade out of this loss today. let's watch.
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>> i think the real outcome of today's decision is to strengthen our resolve to make sure that this law is, in fact, repealed. >> the decision today really indicates we have entered an age in which the government, washington, will be controlling health care. unless something changes. >> today was not a good day for freedom. it was not a good day for struggling american families who wish to keep the health care that they have. i respect the ruling of the supreme court. and i respectfully and vehemently disagree with you. >> okay. maybe i'm wrong. we'll go on here. maybe i'm wrong. >> they did. >> when did they use the 60 votes to get the super majority? >> i can't -- all th legislative maneuvering they had at the end, they employed
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reconciliation at the end. parts of it, yes. >> butç the actual passage of e bill they didn't. >> we're both half right. we'll say that. >> they couldn't have done it without 60 votes though. now i'm at a loss here. let's talk about the second part of this thing. it's the boriing part. the medicaid part. expansion to anybody who makes less than 1% of the poverty level. >> right. >> okay. thank you. this is such a big day for howard and i, we can't get over our giggles. we're going to the tapes on you and me. coming up, has this fight with mitt romney, is he going to keep it up? you might be right but he may be wrong. i don't think anybody wants to hear mitt romney talk about health care since he created it in massachusetts. and the vote on contempt. with some democrats walking out of the vote in protest. we'll have that later in the
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show. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. >> the government could decide we're going to tax you if you don't eat broccoli on tuesday. apparently that's not constitutional. but i don't think it's a very wise law. recently, students from 31 countries took part in a science test. the top academic performers surprised some people. so did the country that came in 17th place. let's raise the bar and elevate our academic standards. let's do what's best for our students-by investing in our teachers. let's solve this. if we took the nissan altima and reimagined nearly everything in it?
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welcome back to "hardball." the president scored a big win today, but in the court of public opinion, the health care law remains unpopular. that's mainly thanks to the individual mandate, the idea that almost everybody has to get health insurance or pay a penalty for not doing it. today, the president tried to defend that provision. >> uninsured people who can afford care get sick and show up at the emergency room for care, the rest of us end up paying for their care in the form of higher premiums. that's why even though i knew it wouldn't be politically popular and resisted the idea when i ran for this office, we ultimately included the provision that people who can afford to buy health insurance should take the responsibility to do so. in fact, this idea is enjoyed support from members of both parties including the current republican nominee for president. >> of course, romney has strongly defended mandates in the past. himself of course he was vowing to repeal the president's health care bill.
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but will obama care become a major part of this caaign? will he have a choice? mark halperin, senior political analyst here at msnbc. michael steele, former chair of the rnc. he's also an msnbc political analyst. i have to ask you, in terms of the nature of this campaign we're facing with an unemployment rate that looks to be around eight, maybe a little higher or lower. we pretty much know where the situation lies right now. so what will be the deciding factors? will it be something like this that rolls out and becomes a ç bigger story even than it was today? >> i think it has that potential, particularly if the romney team does not come to the table with a level of specifics about what he would do. this whole repeal and replace idea, i love it, but the reality of it is once the house moves next week to repeal, someone's going to have to start talking about what the to replace it with. what's important is that the messaging of on the heels of this ruling has to be one of taking the country to the next step in terms of what
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republicans say and i think this thing could be a sleeper in this election. >> have you heard any republican alternative to the mandate for paying for this thing? >> there are individual pieces that are out there that particularly the 14 members of the house who are doctors have talked about. that has to come together in a comprehensive way to say if we don't do the mandate, what are we going to do and how are we going to pay for it. we've got a lot of taxes that come online next year and that is how obama's planning to pay for this. this now becomes i think a sleeper issue. depending hon how -- on how romney defines it going forward. >> you know, fdr had a wonderfully sarcastic way of talking about the republican party. they always take something the democrats have just done and say we could do that, too, in a way that won't cost you anhing. they always do that after the fact. can they get away with it this time? the democrats will cost you this mandate or penalty. we can give you preexisting coverage, adult children coverage, et cetera.
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but it won't cost you anything. >> i don't think you have to look back any further than the ç last election we had in this country in 2010 where republicans were shockingly deficient in offering an alternative to deficit reduction. but said the president's not doing a good enough job. vote for us. they didn'have any ideas. it may end up being the same on health care. people inside the beltway and northeast corridor are skeptical of the bain argument. yet out in the country that may work. i think health care on the other side may be it. when i go out with governor romney and he talks about repealing obama care, the emotion is as raw as anything else he talks about. i don't think it's a reach at all to say obama care has higher taxes and small business doesn't like it. big business doesn't like it. republicans have been talking for montes about how it relates to the president's record on the economy, so i think for sure he'll talk about it and i don't think he'll talk about it reluctantly. i think it will be one of his
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strongest arguments of why republicans at least don't think the president's managed the economy well. >> stay on this, mark. does the fact that the supreme court relied on the taxing authority of the president to basically give this constitutional muster. will that give the republicans an argument right there? >> they certainly think so. i read about 200 republican tweets and press releases today and almost all of them focused on that. i think the president's remarks today are a great start for him to try the to make the case about why the mandate is a conservative idea. why it's a necessary thing. i think he's going to have to keep that up because i don't think governor romney is going to back off going after the law. and i don't think most voters are goingç to care about what did in massachusetts. he will get rid of it. he incumbent won't get rid of it. he'll implement it. >> mitt romney today said he disagreed with the court's decision and promises to repeal health care if he wins the election. let's watch him. >> what the court did today was say that obama care does not
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violate the constitution. what they did not do was say that obama care is good law or that it's good policy. obama care was bad policy yesterday. it's bad policy today. obama care was bad law yesterday. it's bad law today. if we want good jobs and a bright economic future for ourselves and our kids, we must replace obama care. that is my mission. that is our work and i'm asking the people of america to join me. >> that was rather like talking with a staff written script, but it might work. mitt romney has strongly backed health care however, mandates, even. of course the president's plan was modeled on romney's own plan in massachusetts. today, video was found of romney defending mandates in order to bring health care costs down. this is from 2006. not a million years ago. let's watch. >> regards to the mandate, the individual responsibility program, which i proposed, i was
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very pleased to see that the compromise from the two houses includes the personal responsibity. that is essential for bringing health care costs down for everyone and getting everybody ç the health insurance they deserve and need. >> you know, the whole of presidents down there, just sort of feed in the script, the voice in the statue that speaks a different line. he just went from one to another based on the script. how does he do this? mark may be brilliant saying the visceral attitude against the health care bill. they don't care who chops this program. they just want somebody to do it. >> absolutely and i think that's going to be the corner stone of the romney strategy going forward. like a lot of folks who began to realize, i don't think he backs off. i think he pushes full steam ahead. he's going to link it to the economy argument as much as he can. how it ties into jobs and small businesses. the weight of the tax burden on the taxpayer as well as businesses.
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i think this is going to round out nicely for him. interesting though is what the president does and started to do today is fashioning this ironically from a conservative. you noted it. a conservative personal responsibility argument which i think is going to be fascinating for him to make. especially because he was against the mandate and romney was for the mandate before he was against it, so these two gentlemen have crafted a very interesting dialogue. >> president obama doesn't want to talk about it anymore. that's my hunch. he said so today. whenever they start talking move on, mark, every time i hear the word move on that means please. i'm clinching. michael steele, mark halperin, thank you, gentlemen. up next, see what happens when a republican member of congress thinks the law's been overturned. i'm not going to say which networks had this story completely wrong, but you can guess it wasn't this one and this is "hardball," the place for politics.ç >> time and again, he has shown political courage. i think, i said to him.
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i said this is a cost of politics versus the policy and you got to weigh it. you have other things on the agenda you want to do. can you make a political move and to his credit, he asked, he wanted the honest opinion. i gave him the honest advice. the president from interview: i talk to folks on rope lines and in coffee shops. people who have been out of work. you can tell it wears on them. narrator: he's fought to pull us out of economic crisis for three years. and he still is. president obama's plan keeps taxes down for the midd class, invests in
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education and asks the wealthy to pay their fair share. mitt romney and his billionaire allies can spend milions to distort the president's words. but they're not interested in rebuilding the middle class. he is. i'm barack obama and i at liberty mutual, we know how much you count on your car, and how much the people in your life count on you. that's why we offer accident forgiveness, where your price won't increase due to your first accident. we also offer a hassle-free lifetime repair guarantee, where the repairs made on your car are guaranteed for life, or they're on us. these are just two of the valuable features you can expect from liberty mutual. plus, when you insure both your home and car with us, it could save you time and money. at liberty mutual, we help you move on with your life, so get the insurance responsible drivers like you deserve.
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now they're managing my investments for me. and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. geone-on-one help from america's retirement leader. back to "hardball." this is the sideshow. the supreme version. if you thought this was a big day free of political sideshows, wait for this. initial reporting on the decision not on msnbc led many to believe the health care law had been struck down. and resulted in some premature celebrations by republicans. a tweet from michigan congressman justin amash quote, this is a big win for liberty and the constitution. the congressman's jubilation was short lived but wasn't alone.
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a cell phone captured jean schmidt of ohio reacting to the misinformation. >> yes! >> speak! >> oh, thank god! they struck down the individual mandate. they took it away. yes! >> well, that was meg ryan yesterday. anyway, she was in for a letdown. get this. the president himself also got wrapped up in the confusion. he, too, initially thought that the law had been struck down after catching wind of that initial misinformation. white house aides say he walked into the oval office, and then was given two thumbs up to explain the law had in fact survived what was a roller coaster. even those who did have the facts straight got caught up in the moment. had three words to tweet, it's
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constitutional, and he used a "b" word that rhymes with witches. a following tweet said he let his excitement get the better of him. kind of reminds me of this moment. just after the bill was passed. >> moving on just days after reviving her death panel warnings, sarah palin tweeted quote, obama lied to the american people again. he said it wasn't a tax. obama lies. freedom dies. that's sarah palin. freedom dies? really governor? it might just be republican kentucky governor rand paul who takes the cake with his statement. quote, just because a couple people in the supreme court declare something to be constitutional does not make it so. the whole thing remains unconstitutional. that's rand paul. actually, senator paul, when the supreme court says something is constitutional, by definition it is. but now to switch gears.
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this whole historic decision comes down to two people. president obama and chief justice roberts that upheld it. a few years ago the two men shared another historic event. >> i barack hussein obama do solemnly swear. >> that i'll execute the office of president faithfully. >> that i will execute --ç the office of the president of the united states faithfully. >> and will to the best of my ability. >> and will to the best of my pablt preserve protect and defend the constitution of the united states. >> so help you god? >> so help me god. >> congratulations, mr. president. >> wow. up next, the house votes. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. science initiative... ...which helped students and teachers get better results in ap courses. together, they raised ap test scores 138%. just imagine our potential... ...if the other states joined them.
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hey there. here's what's happening. the mayor of colorado springs says the wildfire there has destroyed 346 homeowners making
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it the most destructive in state history. the blaze is only 10% contained. president obama visited wounded trooped at walter reed earlier. and a bomb exploded in damascus. at least three people were wounded. no word on who was behind it. let's get you back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." late this afternoon the republican-led house took the unprecedented step of deciding to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt of congress. it was over dispute of a gun running investigation called fast and furious. and house democratic leaders led by the black caucus staged a walkout to protest the vote. >> there's something evil about
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using the house, especially something as severe as holding someone in contempt of congress. >> the action on the floor today is unprecedented in the history of america.ç never before in history has the congress held a cabinet officer in contempt. that's why we're here in this courtyard to say to our republican colleagues, shame on you. shame on you. shame on you. shame on you. >> white house communications director dan pfeiffer discussed the disgust after the contempt vote in a statement that reads in part quote, at the beginning of this year republicans announced one of their top priorities was to investigate the administration and ensure the president was a one term president. today we saw the house of
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represents perform a political stunt. and eric holder reacted to the vote today. let's listen to him. >> today's vote is the regrettable culmination of what became a misguided and politi l politically motivated investigation over the past year. by advancing it over the past year and a half, congressman issa and others have focused on politics over public safety. >> democratic congressman elijah cummings the head of that committee. i've got so many questions about this. but what is this obsession with your chairman, darrell issa, with nailing the attorney general? >> you know, i really don't understand it, chris. this did not have to happen. chairman issa has been -- he sat down andç he's talked to eric
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holder. i was at a meeting about a week ago. mr. holder was humble and said basically, look. i've turned over 7,600 pages of documents. i've just given you 1,300 pages of documents that were documents i didn't have to give you. i'm willing to give you more, but at some point you've got to make a commitment that you will make a good faith effort to bring this contempt situation to a close. and basically what mr. issa said was my way or the highway. but we've seen that from republicans, you know, for the last two years. my way or the highway. and that's basically what it ended up being. this did not have to happen. >> at the very bottom of this, is there anything that is there to be investigated? according to "fortune" magazine, there was no misbehavior. the fact the united states government did what it could to bring about arrests where it thought it had a good case.
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it wasn't letting guns go into the hands of bad guys on purpose. it was following the law the way it could follow it given the limited gun controls we have. >> that's right. and when the whistle blowers came before our committee, the ones called by chairman issa, they told us -- they said the thing you can do for us is tighten up the gun laws. it makes it almost impossible for us to do our jobs. there's no -- mr. issa even made it clear that there was no wrong doing on the part of attorneyç general holder. he did not know about this gunwalking, did not authorize it. as a matter of fact, when he found out about it, he brought it to an end. that is why this is so very sad. this was a great day in one sense with the health care bill. on the other sense, it was a very sad day. >> what's though chairman going to do next? are they actually going to bring about a criminal investigation, a criminal indictment against
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the attorney general? what's the next step on their agenda? >> it's hard to say what they're going to do. i think that they want to run this out straight on through to the election. this is about politics, chris. let's not kid ourselves. it's about politics trying to help mr. romney become president. but i've got a feeling that it's going to backfire. because i think sometimes you can overreach. and i think that the public is going to see that and understand that. i mean, everybody thought that the health care bill would be brought down. but you see what happened there. so i just have feeling that this will turn into something good for the democrats. i really do. >> okay. thank you. as always, congressman cummings, thanks for joining us. republican of utah voted in favor of contempt. darrell issa made sure to be aggressive. when he got the job in 2010 he told politico i want seven hearings a week times 40 weeks.
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jason chavitz is on the oversight committee. issa was aggressive when he got the job in ç2010. he told politico then i want seven hearings a week times 40 weeks. it looks like darrell issa has been loaded since the day he got that subcommittee. and he's going to do it whatever way he can find it. wasn't he out there looking for a fight from day one? >> no, no. >> he just said he was. >> would he what? >> he said he was. he said i'm going to hold seven hearings a week. 40 weeks a year just to dig for dirt. >> no. we've had very good bipartisan. i've done things wiabout what's going on in iraq. i think it's an unfair assumption to assume just because you're holding a hearing somehow it's going to be unfair. these are balanced in their approach. i thought we were balanced in our approach here. unfortunately it came to this
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because we were left with no other option. you're left with a dead agent. 200 dead mexicans. you have a february 4th letter sent to congress under department of justice letter head that was a lie. and then we're just supposed to walk away from that? that would be malpractice. >> what do you make of the "fortune" magazine article that said there was no effort to run the guns to allow the guns to walk? did they always enforce the law? >> i totally disagree. >> with "fortune" magazine? >> yeah. i totally disagree. we had a number of whistle blowers who came to us and provided us this documentation that led to the fact that the guns were running. remember, we were given a letter on february 4, 2011, that roughlyç ten months later department justices had to pull back because it was a lie. >> let me ask you. are you for tougher enforcement of gun laws? would you like to see a more aggressive atf that stopped
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anybody who looked to be in anything suspicious? >> we're two of the most conservative members in congress. gunwalking is wrong. >> let you answer my question. do you want aggressive enforcement of gun laws? >> yes. look at straw purchasing. that is absolutely felony wrong. it is absolutely wrong. and of course we need to enforce that. what was wrong here is the department of justice went to the gun dealers in the greater phoenix area and said despite being against the law, let's allow 2,000 mostly ak-47s purposely get in the hands of the drug lords. that's just so wrong, chris. and if that was bush, you'd be all over it. >> no, no. i think it was bush that started this program, don't you? >> well, under operation gun runner it was stopped in 2007. >> okay. >> then brewer comes along in 2009 and they start fast and
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furious. it's not right now. >> well said. thank you congressman of utah. next back to health care. under the politics, what the supreme court did was good for real people with real health issues. this is "hardball" the place for politics. [ chuckles ] ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ male announcer ] now you'll know when to stop. [ honk! ] the all-new nissan altima with easy fill tire alert. [ honk! ] it's our most innovative altima ever. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪
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we've got some fresh new results from the nbc marist poll. let's go to the score board.ç in michigan president obama won easily four years ago.
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47-43 over romney. not good enough. race there tightening. it's closer in north carolina where our poll has president obama off by two. too close for comfort for the president. let's look at new hampshire. it's all tied up there. 45-45. very telling here. this ask a very close election near. we'll be back. emily's just starting out... and on a budget. like a ramen noodle- every-night budget. she thought allstate car insurance was out of her reach. until she heard about the value plan. see how much you could save with allstate. are you in good hands?
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see by what's getting done. measure commitment. the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done.
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we're still committed to seeing this through. because of this law, there are other americans, others sons and daughters, brothers and sisters were fathers and mothers who will not have to hang their fortunes on chance. these are the americans for whom we passed this law. >> we're back. of course that is president obama speaking today off the supreme court upheld his health care law. what a day it's been for the president. we've talked a lot today about the politics by the decision of the supreme court. the 5-4 approving it. how's it going to affect real people? zeke emanuel worked on adviser to president obama and is an
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msnbc contributor. he chairs the medical ethics at the university of pennsylvania. teresa brown is author ofç "critical care: a new nurse faces death, life, and everything in between." she's also a blogger for "the new york times." teresa i want to get to you about a leukemia patient. break it down what that meant to you and a patient like that, the ruling today. >> the issue why we needed the affordable care act was brought home to me one afternoon when i was taking care of a new leukemia patient that started to talk to me about death panels. i told him there was no such thing as death panels. he satd really? because i hoped there were. and he didn't have health insurance, and he was convinced that the care he would need to cure his leukemia would bankrupt his family. he ran his own business, he had worked his whole life. his wife had health insurance, but he was not on her policy, and i'm guessing from things he
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told me, he couldn't afford it, but whatever the reason, he wasn't insured, had always been healthy, and then he was suddenly very, very sick, and his wish was for the government to actually assassinate him rather than his family having to lose their livelihood to save his life. >> well, how was his condition different in terms of his finance, $20,000 for these chemo injections, which staggers us watching and listening, how can anything cost $20,000 for an injection, but what will his situation be, it's been passed into law now, it's clearly challenged by the courts, so how's it look now for him or a person like him? >> it looks so much better,ç because there's so many provisions in the affordable care act that should help so many americans that couldn't get insurance get it. for one thing, subsidies that will go to people who can't afford insurance, there are plans to expand medicaid, there are also a lot of provisions to lower the cost of premiums, and
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that will make insurance more affordable for the average american, so there's lots of different ways, including state-run insurance exchanges that people who in the past simply couldn't afford insurance should be able to. >> that's micro, that's what real life is, of course, it's frightening the cost of medicine, $20,000 for an ingestii injecti injection, but will the individual mandate, that was what's at stake today and we know we have to do something, no more walking into an e.r. without an effort on your part, financial on your part, how's that going to affect the price of premium for insurance? >> it's going to bring it down. >> explain how it works. >> services from a hospital or services from a doctor and they don't pay for them, someone's got to cover those costs, because it's not free, whether the x-ray machine or lab test, the hospital folds it into the cost they charge everyone else who's paying and it's estimated
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on a family premium, it was over $1,000, so that will go down, and then, in addition -- >> because a lot of healthy people who are young will be getting themselves insured, right? >> well, a lot of healthy people will be insured, but also everyone will have coverage, so we'll pay in. in addition, states were often paying hospitalsç or doctors wn provided this uncompensated care out of general revenue, and that will go into providing them insurance, and it's not only that the premiums will go down, these people who hitherto didn't have insurance, will now be able to get preventive tests, so maybe the number of services they need will go down. >> when you explain it like a physician, you are, of public policy, sounds so simple. why does this darn bill have to be as fat as an old sears-roebuck catalog? most people don't like that. they don't like why it's so big and complicated if it's as
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simple as you just said. >> two facts, the decision today, 199 pages, just deciding the issue of the bill. so talk about length, a lot of issues take time. the second thing is, it dealt with cost problems, with the number of doctors and nurses we have, with prevention, there are many things in the bill. plus, the whole health care system is $2.8 trillion, almost 20% of the whole economy. you can't regulate that in a ry short bill. >> okay, thank you very much, zeke. >> but wait, i want to -- >> why did you bring your prop? >> this is my good luck charm for this bill. it's broccoli. now you have to eat your broccoli to stay healthy. >> i'm with sr. bush on this one, i eat it when it's on the plate. teresa, thank you for joining us and giving us a real-life insight and you for the big picture, which we alwaysç need. when we return, the extraordinary decision today by
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one man, chief justice john roberts. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. the teacher that comes to mind for me is my high school math teacher, dr. gilmore. i mean he could teach. he was there for us, even if we needed him in college. you could call him, you had his phone number. he was just focused on making sure we were gonna be successful. he would never give up on any of us. before i started taking abilify, i was taking an antidepressant alone. most days i could get out from under and carry on. but other days i still struggled with my depression. i was handling it... but sometimes it still dragged me down. i'd been feeling stuck for a long time. so i talked to my doctor and she added abilify o my antidepressant. she said it cod help with my depression, and that some people had symptom improvement as early as 1 to 2 weeks.
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i'm glad i talked to her. i wish i'd done it sooner. now i feel more in control of my depression. [ female announcer ] abilify is not for everyone. call your doctor if your depression worsens or you have unusual changes in behavior, or thoughts of suicide. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients taking abilify have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor if you have high fever, stiff muscles, and confusion to address a possible life-threatening condition. or if you have uncontrollable muscle movements, as these could become permanent. high blood sugar has been reported with abilify and medicines like it and in extreme cases can lead to coma or death. other risks include increased cholesterol, weight gain, decreases in white blood cells, which can be serious, dizziness on standing, seizures, trouble swallowing, and impaired judgment or motor skills. depression was always hanging over me. then my doctor added abilify to my antidepressant. now i feel better. [ female announcer ] if you're still struggling with depression talk to your doctor to see if the option of adding abilify is right for you. and be sure to ask about the free trial offer.
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let me finish tonight with mr. chief justice john roberts. what a treasure in public affairs and human existence is the unpredicted, those moments a person does something that staggers the rest of us that is so phenomenal and blows us away. john roberts just performed one of those acts, he was judicious
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looking at the obama health care act from all angles, how from each perspective the act does or does not pass mustard with the constitution. he did so as he said today, looking for that angle from which the obama measure could be ruled to square with this country's organizing document, admitting to looking for it until he found it. so the big question, what pushed him, what made him look until he found the route to the obama health care act to constitutional acceptability, what was it that encouraged him, john roberts, to find the taxing authority, the provision he believed gave obama's act its okay by the constitution. well, my hunch knowing justice roberts and his wife just a bit, he wanted to do good and went looking for a way to do it consistent to hisç oath to respect the constitution. he wanted to protect both. that's the heart of it, and the one shot this country has in looking at the welfare of all our people and the one way it could square with the constitutionally limited government. there is in our church a commitment to social justice,
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runs deep and wide, crossing sad divides between right and left and holds to the central belief shared by so many religions to look out for our brothers and sisters on this work, every man for himself and steers us towards something finer, towards obligation in our lives towards our fellow mankind. it is worthy, it is good, today the supreme court agreed with it saying that when it comes to health and health care, we americans have no obstacle to doing what is right, so let's put our heads in the pillow tonight saying this is a good day for our country, a good day to have lived and known we live in a good country, one that is trying harder each generation to be better. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "the ed show" with ed schultz starts right now. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show" live from washington, d.c. the american people have won a historic victory in the supreme court. the affordable care act is constitutional and nothing will ever change that. that is "the ed show," let's get
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to work. the bottom line here is the supreme court has withheld the health care law. >> the supreme court has stunned the nation. the affordable care act is here to stay. >> the highest court in the land has now spoken. we will continue to implement this law. >> the law would not have passed without democratic leader nancy pelosi. tonight she joins me for an exclusive interview on today's ruling. >> so it's not a job killer. >> it's not. it creates 4 million. >> on mitt romney's reaction to the ruling. >> listening to mitt romney today was confused. >> and the future for single payer. >> as far as our families are concerned, the best is yet to come as more of this bill, of this act, unfold. also tonight, former governor howard dean and congressman george miller on how this ruling will change your life forever. karen finney on the politics of the ruling and the far right wing reaction. >> this was an activist court that you saw today. >> all that and the democrats walk out as

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