tv News Nation MSNBC October 17, 2012 2:00pm-3:00pm EDT
they came toe to toe and for the first time since the big debate, both men are commenting publicly about the night in new york. right now, president obama's back on the campaign trail after regaining the footing in a hold nothing back 90-minute slugfest with governor romney. president obama was in iowa in the last hour and talked about his improved performance. >> as many of you know, we had our second debate last night. you know, i'm still trying to figure out, you know, how to get the hang of this thing, debating. but we're working on it. you know? we'll keep on improving as time goes on. i've got one left. >> within left. meanwhile, governor romney in virginia, battleground state, where in the last hour accused the president of leaving questions unanswered last night. >> i love the debates.
you know, these things are great. and i think it's interesting that the president still doesn't have an agenda for a second term. don't you think that it's time for him to finally put together a vision of what he'd do in the next four years if he's elected? he's got to come up with that over this weekend. there's only one debate left on monday. >> both candidates and their wing men chris crossing critical battleground states today. that's a look at the map and bring in today's news nation panel. eugene robinson, jim frederic, michael smirconish and jonathan calagio. thank you very much. eugene, i want to start with the last moment of the night, the 47% came up and michael steele was on earlier saying that was an error on romney's part to go in and give the president this big moment. let's play what went down, the very last moment of the debate.
>> i care about 100% of the american people. >> when he said behind closed doors that 47% of the country considered themselves victims, who refuse personal responsibility, think about who he was talking about. >> so you gene, i help hashtagging duh, duh, duh. that was the last impression and very different than last two weeks ago. >> i don't know why romney went there. i can understand him coming in to the debate figuring that the 47% thing would be raised and therefore he would be prepared to answer it as he's answered it in the nondebate setting. but to bring it up himself at the end where he doesn't get to respond, he opened the door and so president obama went right through it. >> michael, what if the president had forgotten? 47% slipped the mind.
guess who was there to remind him. mitt romney. i think oprah calls it the a-ha moments. >> i think what you are saying is what if that question hadn't been asked at the end and a foreign policy question and left on the cutting room floor and the president would not have been able to deliver it. eugene, maybe the answer that he gave was frankly one of the only times last night and speaking for both men that he considered the answer. what is the misconception that you want to correct? i heard him say two things. he cares about everybody and secondly i thought that was a very subtle explanation of what it means to be a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. he was saying people misunderstand my religion an misunderstand the compassion i have. i agree with both of you that it was a very strong response by the president. >> absolutely. what was not left on the cutting room floor, libya. we knew that libya would come
up. we could have not scripted this moment. let's play how it went down, another what's seen as a mistake of governor romney. >> i think it's interesting that the president said something which is that on the day after the attack he went in the rose garden and said that this was an act of terror. you said in the rose garden the day after the attack it was an act of terror? it was not a spontaneous demonstration? >> please proceed, governor. >> i want to make sure we get that for the record because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in benghazi an act of terror. >> get the transcript. >> he did, in fact, sir. let's call it -- >> could you say that louder, candy? >> jonathan, your thoughts on that moment? >> well, i thought that the president misled the american people on that because if you look at -- if he's claiming that that speech in the rose garden the white house policy of benghazi being a terror attack, that's contradicted by the press
office for 14 days. jay carney asked about that specific thing on september 20th said that the white house did not, had not viewed it as a terror attack and romney is right on the substance and i think that president obama's really trying to rewrite history here by saying that the speech in the rose garden set policy for the white house because it clearly didn't in any subsequent statement out of the white house for 14 days. >> i didn't hear anything in the r remarks that he was studying policy. the line of romney, quote, you said in the rose garden that day after the attack it was an act of terror? he said it skeptically and let's play what the president said in the rose garden that day. let's play it. >> world must stand together to unequivocally reject the acts. no act of terror will shake the resolve of this nation, alter that character or eclipse the light of what we stand for. >> despite what conservatives are saying, despite what
romney's team is saying today, the reality is it seemed as if governor romney was unaware or not properly briefed by the team own what was said in the rose garden that day. he did not -- you can tell looking to the president, you're kidding me? you said this? look at the transcript. there it is, bam. >> yeah. that's clear that he wasn't properly briefed on the word terror. >> this is not about policy established that day or direction. this is a comment that governor romney doubted existed. >> yeah. i think that the debate degenerated to about the hot button word terrorism rather than a more sophisticated and nuanced debate of what did the u.s. administration know about the protection policies in place in benghazi. >> absolutely. >> now degenerated in to meaningless of this one word terrorism. >> that's the fault of governor romney because there's the opportunity to talk about the substantive investigation, perhaps heat off of you and your running mate. you have family members that believe it's politicized and there's the chance rather than
hooked on this terror line and i think, eugene, because you have a lot of conservatives early on saying that the president was trying to eliminate the word terror and all of this notion. >> exactly. that's been sort of the theme in the conservative blogosphere and hanging on that word which was said. he said act of terror in a list with 9/11. so it was wrong and there could have been a substantive discussion but there was a gotcha. >> it was a gotcha. >> a miss opportunity on both sides. >> absolutely. let's play another exchange. this one on immigration. as i understand it, the goggle topics that people are looking at, the folder or whatever of binder of women and immigration. let's take a look at that moment. >> when the president ran for office, he said this he'd put in place in his first year a piece of legislation, file it, a bill, in the first year that would reform our immigration system. protect legal immigration. stop illegal immigration. he didn't do it. he had a democrat house, a
democrat senate. >> when governor romney says the challenges is obama didn't try, that's not true. i sat down with democrats and republicans at the beginning of my term but it's very hard for republicans in congress to support comprehensive immigration reform if their standard bearer said this is not something i'm interested in supporting. >> jonathan, can you answer what governor romney's immigration policy would be if he were elected? >> i'm not going to talk about that. president obama had the power in congress to do whatever he wanted for two years. passed a stimulus without a single republican vote and obama care and could have passed immigration reform without a single republican vote so this is a ruse by the president here. he said that romney supported the arizona law and "the washington post" fact checker said was false. he said that romney supports the e-verify portion of that. again, the president trying to
defend his own record comes up with an attack on governor romney was false. >> one more time, why then won't you answer the question? i have never had anyone tell me that before. i don't know. that's kind of strange. why won't you tell me what you believe is governor romney's immigration policy an i'll explain why i'm pushing you on this. two groups are important and discussing women later and latino voters where your party could perhaps have a little bit of sway if the president underperforms with the groups or perhaps your party pick off a few people within those groups of voters, you could build some traction here. so my question is not want to be gotcha but a legitimate one. what is governor romney's immigration policy if he's elected? >> i think he spelled it out in the debate. for legal immigration. he explained that the wife's father was an immigrant and important to give 'em employeers
the tools to determine if the folks hiring are here legally. that's laid out last night. >> eugene, self deportation doesn't mean self deportation and supports a version of the dream act. is there a definitive policy that this candidate has discussed regarding immigration or are people like jonathan picking at pieces and not forming a total story after what his immigration policy would be? >> there was a definitive policy back in the primaries. mitt romney would have vetoed the dream act. his policy for dealing with it, 12 million illegal immigrants is self deportation, essentially making it uncomfortable for those people to be here and leave and go home. that was the policy and for obvious reasons, he'd like to soften it now. but he didn't. it's interesting that in the debate when given the opportunity he didn't go there. he didn't really switch to a
moderate position and i think that's because he would get heat from the conservative base. >> michael, i want your thoughts on it, as well. one more moment. this jobs plan, that five-point plan. let's play it. >> we have not made the progress we need to make to put people back to work. that's why i put in a five-point plan to gets america 12 million new job s in 4 years and rising take home pay. >> a five-point plan? he has a one-point plan. and that plan is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rules. >> jim, that was an intense moment. michael, as well. the push back on the president today is people who believe he didn't present a clear vision of the next four years to offer up to this country. as far as our economy. >> yeah. i think that's a fair assessment. that's a very strong rhetorical point. i think it was tough without being nasty but i would say,
too, if i had one critique of obama's performance which i think was very strong he didn't lay out, well, here's where we've gotten to and here's where we're going. >> pennsylvania, the president up in that state and joe scarborough ended this morning with ohio, ohio, ohio. i guess that's one word over and over again and going back to the economy. the last debate is foreign policy. both conservatives and i guess journalists wondering if the topic should be changed because we went in to this knowing that people want to work and someone has to provide a plan for this country, the next four years and beyond quite honestly. >> you know, it's interesting you say that, tamron, because on the air today what i'm hearing from listeners is variety of issues that they think have gotten no discussion or short skrif. campaign finance reform. that's not going to come up on monday and also what you've just said. people want more conversation
about jobs. don't feel even now that they have had enough between the two of them. >> and deficit. didn't hear anything really regarding the deficit. a lot to be discussed and missing the opportunity. we'll hear campaign trail speeches and whatnot but mono-e-mono confrontation on those issues we will not see. thank you very much, gentlemen. i always feel so lucky of four great guys. thank you. coming up, 2020 vision with 20 days left before people vote. what does former pennsylvania governor ed rendell see as the clear path ahead for the candidates and the challenges the governor will join me. plus -- >> i had a question and the question was, how much did you cut them by? how much did you cut them by? >> did body language reveal the winner of the debate? it's a point made today. i'll talk with a body language expert who says he can explain some of the candidate's moves and what this expert calls the president's five-fingered
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i was someone who ran businesses for 25 years and balanced the budget. i ran the olympics and balanced the budget. i ran the state of massachusetts as a governor, to the extent any governor does, and balanced the budget all four years. >> governor romney last night running down his resume. he's here taking credit for balancing the budget of massachusetts in his term. the statement is accurate but did not say that massachusetts like 48 other states is legally required to balance its budget. it's in the state's
constitution. and moving ahead to our next guest, of course, governor ed rendell. let's bring in the governor. governor rendell, are you there? >> yeah, i'm here, tamron. >> the president did not directly challenge mitt romney's record on massachusetts and did push back on the economic plan that the governor presented calling it sketchy and the math does not add up. we heard that message from the president now officially in a debate and multiple times now from former president bill clinton. do you believe it's sinking in? >> to a degree but let me say that balancing the budget for the olympics, over a billion dollars in federal aid and forgot to mention. i think that massachusetts is sinking in. governor romney tried to be a tiny bit more specific on the deductions by saying that he would give everyone in the country up to $25,000 in deductions and no more but that in and of itself, he didn't talk about any corporate loopholes to close or any other loopholes.
that doesn't come close to $5 trillion, the cost of the rate cuts that he talked about buzz, policemen, folks, governor romney advocated $2 trillion of increased military spending and has to meet a $7 trillion gap, a $7 trillion gap. and that's just to break even. then he has to tell us how to cut the deficit after that. so it doesn't add up. it doesn't come close. >> how remarkable is this? we have 20 days left here and we're still asking the campaign for specifics including an interview just this morning, congressman paul ryan made the rounds and vice president biden. let's play a little bit of the interview with congressman ryan pushing him on specifics of this budget. let's play it. >> sure. >> you don't go to congress and say, here's all of our details. take it or leave it. you say this is my framework. >> where's the leadership in this? you're a numbers guy. >> we're saying that -- right. and here's what i know, matt. if you say to congress, take it or leave it, you don't get things done. >> it was a couple of weeks ago
with chris wallace, same kind of answer. and here we are again. a similar answer. you don't give a take it or leave it and then no answer with a number in it, governor. >> it's ridiculous. tamron, if i went down to the pennsylvania legislature and legislative leaders, guys, ladies, we have to cut a billion dollars in spending this year to make it work and it's up to you, that's my framework. you fill it in. think'd say, governor, are you crazy? you tell us and then we'll decide whether that's a good idea or not. you will have to own this. what president -- if you seek to be president, what they don't understand is you have to lead. you have to take the weight yourself. congress is not going to come up with $7 trillion worth of deductions. first of all, there aren't $7 trillion of deductions available. that's number one. >> right. >> congress is not going to be the one to take away the mortgage interest deduction. congress is not going to be the
one to take away tax credits for kids in college. congress will never do that unless there's strong presidential leadership and if he does that after the election, he has an absolute duty -- i'd say a sworn duty to tell us what it is now. >> right. okay. so if that's the peril or the problem for the romney campaign 20 days before the election, you have some critics, opinion writers and even a question of michael jones, uncommitted voter he described him and supported the president in the past and deskrir or want to hear the last few days or last few weeks from the president a clearer picture of how he would move this country beyond the measures taken beyond the moves made already and blocked in some cases by republicans. his vision for the future. >> and i think they're right. i think what the president should do, if i was in charge of the president's campaign, i would put an ad out with ten days to go and buy a minute because i think it's important enough and i'd say a lot of you
have been asking me to be specific about what i do. here's what i'd do. the day after the election, if i'm re-elected, i'll convene leaders and put together a ten-year plan that will retruck which you are the debt, bring it down and get rid of our deficit. that means raising ren knew, folks, and continued spending cuts and entitlement reform and insist of a jobs agenda and that means investing in this nation's infrastructure. our roads, highways, dams, the electrical grid and energy independence so that we can create jobs in the energy sector and every part of the energy sector and ask congress to double, give me the dollars to double our exports so our mid sized and smaller businesses can create jobs as their product requirements grow. that's the ad to do. and by the way, i believe the president is going to do those things. that's the great irony of it.
tell the american people what to expect. it's what he's going to do. i know he will do it. let's lay it out. that's the closer for the election. >> all right. sounds like a big closer. thank you very much. greatly appreciate you joining me again. >> thanks, tamron. coming up, i'll talk with atlanta mayor reid who had this advice for president obama after the last debate. >> i compared it to the ali-frazier fight of 1971 where frazier knocked the champ down. knob expected that but ali won the second and third fights and history remembers winners. he can't overcorrect and he needs not to predict the likability so much. >> history remembers the winners. who was the winner and how does the mayor think the president did this time around? mayor reid will join us next. [ ryan ] it doesn't get any better than endless shrimp at red lobster. you can mix and match all day!
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so you know by now the newspaper headlines hours ago and websites and keep updating and posting new reaction to the big showdown last night. here's the latest headlines we pulled within the hour. the top one of political blogs, to lit co.com says obama fights back noting the president's aggressive style compared to the first debate. fred barnes writes that the debate was, quote, not a game changer for the president. and huffington post, binder brouhaha as in joe biden and paul ryan disagreeing over what governor romney meant with the binder full of women comment. coming up, did the debate shine a light on abortion and contraception end up helping or hurting governor romney with women? salon.com's writer joins me live to talk about the important voting bloc of women. plus, a disastrous day for lance armstrong. did you hear this one?
nike, initially stood by their man. the company now says that armstrong misled them for years. and be sure to check out the "news nation" tumblr page. that's my producer jen. she is expecting the first baby and i gave her a midwife massage. do it all. do it all here. ♪ [ male announcer ] why do more emergency workers everywhere trust duracell...?? duralock power preserve. locks in power for up to 10 years in storage. now...guaranteed. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere. woman: what do you mean, homeowners insurance doesn't cover floods? [ heart rate increases ] man: a few inches of water caused all this? [ heart rate increases ] woman #2: but i don't even live near the water. what you don't know about flood insurance may shock you --
and it's so rich and creamy... is it really 100 calories? let me put you on webcan... ...lean roasted chicken... and a creamy broth mmm i can still see you. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. i went to a number of women's groups and said can you help us find folks and they brought us binders of women. >> everyone was wondering whether women's issues would come up with a significant way. you heard it did. according to reuters. it was president obama's pitch to women that put governor romney on the defensive which then led to that widely talked
about and tweeted comment of the governor about binders full of women. let me bring you salon.com -- and there's fact checking going on about what wept down with this i guess governor romney saying he went looking for women to hire. >> yes. >> what is the story there? >> first of all, romney wants a cookie for the bare minimum and making sure there's women at the table, 50% of the population and as it turns out that people that remember boston, massachusetts, during the romney administration know that in fact before anyone was even elected to that seat a group of women on both sides of the aisle came together and put that binder together and taking credit for something that was done before he showed up. >> he hired half of the cabinet women. >> he did have women represented but the number of women in high positions declined according to a study and further more, it's gone up again since duval patrick.
>> wanting for the credit for saying i made this action from your research and others that is not what happened. >> that is false. >> let's play governor romney on contraception last night, keith. >> i don't believe that bureaucrats in washington should tell someone whether they can use contraceptives or not and employers whether they have care or not. every woman in america should have okay sestito contraceptives and the statement of my policy is completely and totally wrong. >> he supported the amendment? >> yes. he did. the funny is that he's contradicting himself almost every comment he makes about women's issues and the idea that he's supporting contra septemberives for all women is flatly contradicted by the notion he says he's opposed to funding for planned parenthood which actually help provide contraceptives to poor women. you can't say you're favor of everybody having access to it and then strike down funding for it. in addition to what he did with the binder statement and the
comment about the fair pay act, this guy was all over the place. i don't think he helped himself out on women's issues. >> something must be getting traction here. this is disputded by the obama administration and even slightly correct, there's closing in the gender gap here. the president doing enormously well and still is but, erin, if the polls are correct there's some movement and mitt romney's picking up some steam with some female voters. obviously we don't vote just on medical issues or women's health issues. >> i think there's two things that need to -- we saw basically a narrowing of the gender gap and definitely still in president obama's favor. >> yes. >> the other thing he was trying to do is, again, there's a small number of undecided voters and trying to do to motivate the base and excite them and the big part of that base is young women who are interested in making sure that their preductive rights are maintained and this access as you mentioned both through title x planned
parenting funding and obama care and fully cover contraception through private insurance so i think it's, yes, absolutely the president has the task before him to remind everyone what's at stake here for women specifically and that's including undecided women but to talk to the women already with him and want to have a reason to turn out and feel like there's something at stake. >> beyond the substance and the clear line between both of these men regarding women's health issues, i want your thoughts on this. i'm going to play an undecided female voter. my producer was with a focus group. >> the interaction between them was really aggressive. i thought it was a little rude at times. so that's not something that i was fond of. they made agreement beforehand not to directly argue with each other and they broke that. >> erin, there were more than a handful of men on television today saying that the tone of
the debate somehow would perhaps turn off women as if we can't take tough language, as if, i don't know that this is -- i don't want to say "leave it the beaver" because that was a favorite growing up as a kid but in the world of cable news battles we see every day, where is this story line coming up that women who are watching last night would shriek and be afraid of them? i believe that's what they say, we can't take it or too emotional. where does this come from other than one woman expressed the thought. >> individual opinions may vary but talking about rudeness, look at mitt romney talked to candy crowly last night and dismissively treated her and didn't listen to her. >> she fought back. >> she absolutely did. yeah. it's absurd to suggest that women are meek and shrink back from this. there's politeness and then there's disrespectful. >> a double standard, too. everybody was saying joe biden's so aggressive, too much.
now this week nobody's compla complaining about mitt romney. he was incredibly a bully last night. >> to your point two weeks prior, the president wasn't tough enough and now people saying he was too tough this time around and which it has baffled me. >> president obama was too -- >> yes. some conservatives who believe that, you know, this or that. doesn't make it true. that's my point. that's my point. >> i think they just weren't expecting president obama to be so forceful as he was last night. >> how could you not expect that? >> on the women's issues, the libya answer and most importantly that last comment he made about the 47%. that was genius right before the end of the debate when romney had no chance to respond. president obama was very forceful and women respond just as men do to say i'm glad we have somebody to stand up and fight for us. >> i told someone as a woman, you don't want did guy do run behind the bar but the guy to stand in front of you at the bar fight. that's my opinion. >> i think women want the hear a strong and vigorous defense of what you will do and done.
>> these are our lives. thank you so much, erin and keith. joining me now atlanta mayor reid. thank you so much for your time. >> i'm glad to be here, tamron. >> absolutely. okay. you compared this to ali-frazier '71. ali on the mat. he got back up. you say that remember the winners. president obama the winner last night, sir? >> no question. i thought he dominated governor romney. he exposed so many weaknesses. we watched governor romney play fantasy football with the america economy to fund the $7 trillion, $8 trillion. the only answer is that he was a good businessman over the last 25 years. but i tell you what, wasn't very good as governor of massachusetts. because he left massachusetts with a $1 billion debt. and went from 35th in job creation to 47th. i was with governor duval patrick and wonder why he never talks about the time as govern
nor of massachusetts. he did such a bad job that he had less than a 38% approval rating and could not run for re-election. the president had a great night. >> governor romney talked briefly about the record with a balanced budget and negated to say it's in the constitution for that to take place. let's bring up the polling. you have cbs poll. i believe a cnn poll. the fast polls indicating the president won the debate, agreeing with you but when asked who would do a better i don't know with the economy, at least in the cbs news poll, 65% mitt romney, 34% president obama. if this election is about the economy and the future, what does the president need to do in 20 days if this number, again, a snap poll, if it does reflect where the tenor or thoughts of americans are right now who are undecided? >> this one area where i think the president needs to focus on more. you hear con strabt reflections on ronald reagan governor romney
said that last night and ronald reagan led us out of that recession. he didn't mention, tamron, that ronald reagan had tip o'neill. so he had a congressional partner who understood that the country was in peril and needed help. but what president obama has had is an obstructionist congress that care more about damaging him than they do about the damage that the country's suffering. the president has to lay that out. he has the american jobs act. he will talk about it more and more. it would generate 1 million jobs. republicans in congress including john boehner fought him tooth and nail on fundamental items, tamron, like infrastructure and could have yielded another 1 million jobs. we know that infrastructure is how you put people back to work. >> right. >> the american recovery and reinvestment act, 10% went to inf infrastructure and generated 35%
of the verifiable jobs. we don't have a tip o'neill because the republicans want to defeat barack obama. he has to lay that out. don't let folks get away with talks about ronald reagan without talking about tip o'neill with massive margins in the congress at the time but he was a patriot and he cared more about the united states of america than destroying a president. >> well, mayor, thank you so much for your time. we're happy you were able to join us today. thank you. >> i'm glad to be here. >> okay. another post-debate rush is on for the critical battleground state of ohio. you know that. president obama's about to head, in fact, to ohio after campaigning in iowa. republican vice presidential nominee paul ryan also in ohio today and governor romney mark your calendar will be in, guess where, ohio friday. concerns of american jobs shipped to china are, of course, part of what we heard in the debates, as well. let's take a listen. >> on day one, i will label china a currency manipulator.
which will allow me as president to be able to put in place if necessary tariffs where i believe that they're taking unfair advantage of our manufacturers. >> we had to make sure that china was not flooding our domestic market with cheap tires. governor romney said i was being protectionist, that it wouldn't be helpful to american workers. we saved 1,000 jobs. >> zachary carabel predicted this to happen before the debate and wrote, quote, candidates will spend more time attacking each other than constructive alternatives and one or both will attack china. "news week" zachary carabel joins me. is it about attacking china or the people that work in ohio, pennsylvania, who believe the jobs outsourced and not a fair shake to make sure a kid or two
goes off to china, is it about the facts of what's happening, particularly, for example, the president talked about the domestic tire situation? >> i recognize that emotions are heated and sensitive. i'm talking about this for years. not that we shouldn't be attending to the jobs of ohio. has been the epicenter of that happening. it's where do you put the locust of responsibility for that? what's the cause of it? and i'm firmly of the belief if you misdiagnose the cause you are not going to have a good prognosis for the solution. you know, u.s. manufacturers have been shutting jobs for 30 years and the president alluded that in the debate. it was taiwan, south korea, it was anywhere where there was simply a lower cost manufacturing base than the american cost structure would support and that's complicated for the american economy and i think by focusing overly on china though it is a hot button issue, though it's a successful
campaign issue doesn't get us closer to dealing with it domestically. >> dealing with the issue is part of the conversation discussing that outsourcing maybe to china and india and anywhere else? >> that's the 30-year legacy. >> i want to play then what happened in the debate when that issue came up. let's play it. >> when governor romney said we should let detroit go bankrupt, i said we're going to bet on american workers and american auto industry and it's come surging back. >> when you say i wanted to take the auto industry bankrupt you did and i think it's important to know that was a process that was necessary to get those companies back on their feet so they could start hiring more people. that was precisely what i recommended and ultimately what happened. >> governor romney invested in companies that were pioneers of outsourcing to china. and is currently investing in countries, in companies that are building surveillance equipment for china to spy on its own
folks. that's -- governor, you are the last person to get tough on china. >> zachary, there was a combo there. the auto industry, obviously, jobs key to ohio, a lot of parts there and going back to the outsoou outsourcing from the president? >> yeah. much higher than the current minimum wage standards to compete with the outsourcing issue, it's a wage issue. unfortunately, even though they talked about bringing manufacturing back to the u.s., a lot of manufacturing pays $13 an hour without benefits instead of $30 an hour with benefits which it did before 2008, before the whole bankruptcy of the auto industry and that's another. but if you talk about bringing manufacturing jobs back, the only place to look to as an example is germany and then you have -- you limit executive compensation, bonuses. you create a floor of insurance, health care, social security. all these things that we call socialist are part of the answer to those and i don't see us having that debate any time
soon. we're not having it in the presidential election. >> do you believe that the issue of china bought up in a -- >> no. i think this is really pure political hard ball. my concern is that there's a lot to criticize china nor but we have a lot to tend to right here and you have to make a huge stretch and all respect to people struggling with the jobs to look to china as the proximate cause of our domestic problems. >> all right. zachary karabell, greatly appreciate you coming up. the body language story up next. a real treat. i never talked to a body language expert before. we'll give him a break down of president obama and governor romney's moving. that loosing like the jedi mind strict. questions?
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so, take a look. these are some of the still shots from last night's debate as president obama and governor mitt romney aggressively confronted one another. our first read team had this headline. obama fights back and body long wage tells us who the winner was. joining me now is michael cunningham, a professor at the university of louisville in kentucky. professor, thank you for your time. >> great to be with you. >> before we talk body language, i want to talk about words and according to everyone at the event, there was an audible gasp when this moment happened during the debate last night. let me play it. >> i don't think anyone really believes that you're a person who's pushing for oil and gas and coal. you'll get your chance in a moment. i'm still speaking and the answer is i don't believe people believe this's the case -- that wasn't a question. that was a statement. >> why do you believe people reacted to that? >> because it seemed kind of
rude. we are talking about the president of the united states versus second tender and his -- he was kind of dismissive and trying to appear dominant over obama. >> and you have folks who are categorizing this as the battle of the alphas, both men successful and taking greatly different paths in life and born to different circumstances but both alpha males. the circling each other is competed to boxers in the ring. is too much made of the body language or is this appropriate? >> i think it's appropriate, especially since there's concern of the last debate of how dominant obama was in the contest. they time it was more like a sports ring. i like to look at it less than a boxing ring but a racquetball court. obama is grabbing center and serving aggressively to romney where he was looking down last night. >> i understand, as well, you were struck by a hand gesture of the president and both fingers
are extended -- i said two, all five. what does that mean? >> he was basically saying, here's my policy, take a look at it, we can tweak it a little bit. be aware of it. and i think he was trying to say, i'm being precise with my policies whereas my opponent merely wants you to trust him. and the opponent used the gesture of sort of stop, be quiet. trust me. i can do it all. governor romney was using more suppressive gestures and obama was using more gesticulation of here's my policy. take a look at it and examine it and ask me questions about it. >> do you prefer these debates with body language honesty? >> you can see more and the more opportunities of movement the more people have the ability to display themselves. behind a podium, it can be a distraction and tense. obama's used to the basketball
court and i think that the -- an open court format worked better for him. i think romney is also familiar with the town hall format. >> an interesting debate. some people saying the best ever. professor, thank you very much. up next, the gut check. was that the best debate ever? we'll tell you who's saying that it is.
time now for a quick gut check. here's what george will had to say about last night's debate. >> i have seen every presidential debate in american history since the four of nixon and kennedy in 1960. this was immeasure bring the best. >> immeasurably the best. was it the best you have seen? "the cycle" is up next. ne. creamy spinach artichoke dip, crispy garlic chicken spring rolls. they're this season's must-have accessory.