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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  February 13, 2013 7:00pm-8:00pm EST

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they deserve a simple vote. >> hadiya, newtown, on and on and on. we can not just keep listing tragedies. we must stop and do something about them. we must have change in guns in this country. the list is already too long. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. obama and his enemies. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. let me start with this tonight. elections matter. we got "w" and the iraq war. without the first we wouldn't have gotten the second. last year we re-elected obama and got a progressive state of the union. elections matter.
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listen to this, he pressed to rebuild america starting with our bridges out there. a push for a $9 minimum wage, real immigration reform, a decision to end the war in afghanistan by the end of next year and an end to progressive government itself. we'll talk about smoking out our adversaries. the failure of opposition like today' puny pathetic reaction from the other side. tonight the crazed unequal day we heard in washington. this large but unmistakable declaration of how small has become this right leaning opposition. small, squeaky, and spiteful. i'm joined by amy klobuchar. and chuck todd. a democratic president made this pronouncement about a government in america. >> we have work to give the american people. a smaller, less bureaucratic
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government in washington. and we have to give the people one that lives within its means. the era of big government is over. >> last night this president barack obama gave a strong role and criticized republicans who say we must balance the budget. take a listen. >> it is our unfinished task to make sure that this government works on behalf of the many. and not just the few. over the last few years, both parties have worked together to reduce the deficit by more than $2.5 trillion. mostly through spending cuts but also by raising tax rates on the wealthiest 1% of americans. we can't ask senior citizens and families to shoulder the entire
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burden while asking nothing more from the wealthiest and powerful. most democrats, republicans, and independents understand that we can't just cut our way to prosperity. >> senator, thank you for joining us tonight. it seems to me there was a statement there from the president which is clearly distinguished from the statement president bill clinton made in an attempt to get re-election back in '96. he wasn't apologetic. he was positive about the role of government last night. and it got a backlash from the other side today. >> well, it doesn't surprise me it got a backlash. but i think it was one of the best state of the unions president obama has given. he said this is what we have to do. he started right in. i remember sitting thinking wow he just started right in on the economy. what needs to be done. we didn't even have copies of the speech. just simply a point-by-point
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agenda. part of the beauty of not having the speech was nobody read it ahead of time. you had the powerful moment at the end when the entire congress was standing whether they agreed with what he was saying about victims of gun violence, there was this moment where people said yeah we should have a vote. he didn't say you have to vote with me. he said these people deserve a vote. i think it was a bread and butter speech about very clear economic agenda for the country. i didn't see it as a caustic speech. they were simply words that said let's get this done. let's get this going. we need no reduce our debt in a balanced way but we also have to move forward as a country to compete in this global economy. >> well, chuck's here as well. chuck todd. here's the republican reaction we were mentioning there. it was out in force today. senator minority leader mitch mcconnell said the speech was full of recycled liberal talking points. let's listen to the senator. >> an opportunity to bring together the country instead became another retread of lip service and liberalism. for a democratic president
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entering his second term, it was simply unequal to the moment. following four years of this president's unwillingness to challenge liberal dogma, we got more of the same. >> well, speaker john boehner dismissed the president's proposal to raise the minimum wage to $9 on hour. let's listen to the speaker. >> listen. i've been dealing with the minimum wage issue for the last 28 years that i've been in elective office. and when you raise the price of employment, guess what happens. you get less of it. at a time when the american people are still asking the
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question where are the jobs, why would we want to make it harder for small employers to hire people? >> you know, chuck, last night reminded me of high school debating. it was the same old arguments. i mean, i'm not putting him down necessarily. but what we heard from senator rubio and boehner. let's fight over minimum wage. the evils of minimum wage. >> this is where you look at this -- and i look at this speech as a political document. you look at the minimum wage is a 65% approved item. when you look at universal pre-k. that's a 65% approval. when you look at the idea of having high schools get more skill -- teach more actic skills, this is 65% ideals. it's similar to what bill clinton would pull on republicans in the late '90s. they'd say they seem liberal. >> school uniforms. >> all this stuff. and yet it's what average people around the kitchen table are thinking well, you know what? universal pre-k.
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i wish i could do that. i can't afford this private school and i'm not poor enough to qualify for assistance here. so if republicans find themselves where they're letting the president talk about kitchen table issues and have that conversation on his own and they're not having it. so the minimum wage is a classic thing. they're going to end up looking like they're on the wrong side. because there's an argument that the minimum wage is sort of like the payroll tax cut. it's actually a way to put stimulus into the economy. because what happens when you have lower income people, you give them more money, they spend it all. so there's a -- some economists who say you know what? you want to stimulate consumerism, give lower income people more money. >> you know, senator, you deal with people all the time. this seems like an easy way to smoke out your opponents and prove their the elite party. more people would like to get minimum wage than those who want to pay it. there are few employers out >> hey, there u some breaking news from zrksan bernandino. >> david mcgarr, irvine police department.
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chief charlie sbrksbeck, specia agent in charge, tim delaney from the federal bureau of investigations. assistant chief, state of california, department of fish and game. and chief bill siegel, california highway patrol. if you have any questions regarding individual or specific questions, please hold them until the question and answer period. with that, i introduce sheriff john mcmahon. >> good afternoon. the events that occurred yesterday in the big bay area, brought to close an extensive man hunt for murder suspect, krisz fer dorner. it was in response to a stolen vehicle with the suspect matching the description of
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dorner, was later discovered that he crashed that vehicle and carjacked a vehicle in the angeles-oaks area. the deputies continued searching that area for the new suspect vehicle, the white pick-up truck, as well as dorner. the deputies were able to locate the vehicle crashed and he -- dorner, fled into a vacant cabin. as the deputies were arriving, we believe suspect dorner began firing and ambushed her dep city sheriffs that were responding. two of our deputy sheriffs were struck by gunfire, one of which was severely injured. deputy alex collins, he's currently at the hospital being treated. he went through a couple of different surgeries. i just spoke to his wife. he's in good spirits and should make a full recovery after a number of additional surgeries.
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unfortunately, our other deputy, detective jeremiah was pronounced deceased at 2:24 p.m. yesterday at the hospital. the detective is 35 years old and has been a member of our department for 15 years. he's married and has two children, a 7-year-old daughter and a 4-month-old son. he's presently assigned to the station but had also been a detective at the big bear station. my sincere condolences go out to the family. this is truly another sad day for law enforcement. our department is grieving from this event. it's just a terrible deal for allover us. the folks that are up here with me, as well, have also been dealing with this suspect's behavior over the last week. we believe that this investigation is over at this point and we'll just need to
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move on from here. i will tell you that the dep city sheriffs that responded to this active shooting scene yesterday were absolutely true heroes. there were rounds being fired, as you saw on the news coverage, was absolutely incredible. our deputies continued to go in to that area and tried to neutralize and stop the threat. the rounds kept coming, but the deputies didn't give up. our deputy sheriffs are some true heroes. they're highly trained and i will tell you that i'm proud to be a member of this department. and our deputy sheriffs did a great job yesterday. thank you: >> any questions? >> will you take questions now, chief? >> yes. >> can you confirm that it is mr. dorner, his remains. >> i cannot absolutely positively confirm it's him.
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the suspect that we were following and also had stolen the vehicle, matched his description. his behavior, based on our deputy's intersaction with him was consistent to mr. dorner prior to and we're not currently involved in a man hunt any longer. our coroner is working on trying to confirm the identity through forensics and we should know that at some point. >> sheriff, there are lots of questions about the fire that started at the cabin. was that on purpose? did firefighters set the blaze as a result of the tear gas that was fired in there? >> i can tell you that it was not on purpose. we did not intentionally burn down that cabin. >> we used a cold tear gas that
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was pyre tech nick. it does generate a lot of heat. we had introduced those canisters into the residence and a fire erupted. >> there was some product about a burner and i don't know what that is. can you explain that? >> the canisters are commonly referred to as burners. >> that goes to your command po post. >> i'm growing to ask the deputy chief who was heading up from big bear to answer that question. >> good afternoon, during the initial arrangements, dorner's vek was found. we did an extensive search of that area. about 80% of the cabins in that
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area are part time cabins. we went to each cabin. if there were no signs of break in or no open doors, we then o note noted it and moved on to the next cabin. any other questions? >> all of those cabins in that particular area, we sent teams of deputies out to check to see if there was any entry and if we could make con takt. >> can you tell us about what happened? what happened to the people that were in there? >> i don't believe that anybody was in there on thursday. at the start of the investigation, we don't believe that there was anybody that was in that cabin, eerlt a rental or the owner. >> did you guys find weapons in the burned out cabin or the one
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that hoe's staying in, any sort of personal belongings that had been linked? >> some of these things are still preliminary. as the investigation moves forward, we'll have more information. as i said, some of that information will become available at the conclusion of the investigation. >> i would imagine that it could have been thursday, but i'm telling you, at the time, there was nobody renting that cabin. >> did you tell individuals -- >> we did not find any forced entry. >> do you believe that he picked that cabin because it was close to where the station was? do you believe that he was planning another attack? or the shootout just happened because he got scared? >> no, at this point, that would be speculative and we'll comment on that later. >> we spoked to individuals in
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that neighborhood said people never knocked on their doors. that cabin was a vacation rental. it doesn't sound like you guys were there, you know, and you completely cleared that area. >> i can tell you that the cabin that had been rented out was february 26th. and there was extensive work of the cabins. >> please understand that there's an on going investigation and many of your question wills be answered at a later date. we're not going to be taking any further questions at this point. statements will be made summarized and we'll be posting an update to the department web site.
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>> i'd like to thank you all for coming to our press conference. that concludes the press conference for today. >> was there any offer to surrender? >> can anybody speak to whether there was any tactical abilities that he bragged about? >> we had been listening in to authorities from the sheriff's department there speaking with reporters taking questions during a news con frensz. they are still not positively identifying the remains of what is believed to be christopher dorner. >> he has been identified as jeremiah mccay. we're looking at a picture of him right there. mccay joined the department in 1998. he is survived by his wife and his two children. i'm veronica delacruz in the msnbc newsroom. now, back to "hardball."
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the short time i've been here in washington, nothing has frustrated me more than false choices like the one the president laid out tonight. >> well, welcome back to "hardball." by any measure marco rubio's water gate moment was an awkward one for him and many who see him as the gop's savior. a greater consequence may be something more awkward. the effort to reposition itself as a kinder, gentler republican party. let's start with the content of rubio's speech. it was more or less a throwback last night. i called it a yafer speech from the old days. the youth speech which we heard back in the 1960s. let's watch him. >> presidents in both parties from john f. kennedy to ronald reagan have known that our free enterprise economy is the source of our middle class prosperity.
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but president obama? he believes it's the cause of our problems. >> well, that of course is nonsense. i don't think obama's ever attacked the free enterprise system, but rubio wasn't alone last night. a little earlier in the day freshman senator ted cruz of texas put on an ugly performance when he questioned chuck hagel's money. >> i will point out that right now this committee knows absolutely nothing about the personal compensation chuck hagel received in 2008 and 2009 or 2010. we do not know, for example, if he received compensation for giving paid speeches at extreme or radical groups. >> well, cruz's attacks were so over the line that even john mccain who lamb basted hagel a week ago came to the senator's defense. >> senator hagel is an honorable man.
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he has served his country and no one on this committee at any time should impugn his character or his integrity. >> that's what cruz was doing. and john boehner couldn't stick to the script today for the softer, gentler, kinder gop. he told reporters at a breakfast briefing that obama doesn't have -- this is the new phrase. he doesn't have the guts to cut spending. today more republican intransigents are holding up again by demanding the speaker -- actually harry reid from nevada come up with 60 votes to move forward the vote. and senator rand paul put a hold on president obama's pick. joining me now is salon's joan walsh and washington post's dana
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milbank. they can't beat these people so they're doing this obstructing. they're trying to smear this guy. they know he's going to be secretary of defense. there is absolutely no purpose in what cruz is doing except trying to move he's more obnoxious than neocons are. they're just messing around with the government of the united states, i think. >> they're messing around in a particularly ugly way. i mean, ted cruz, this is ugly stuff, chris. and the good news for marco rubio is he makes rubio look like a statesman. and john mccain god bless him is rising to the occasion. and i haven't had many nice things to say about mccain in the last few years. it is separating out the attack dogs and the really vicious people from the people who are merely obstructionists. anyway, marco rubio missed a big moment last night. it's not about the drink of water. it comes down to the fact they do not understand that this new democratic electorate, latinos, women, african-americans, asians, young people.
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they like government. they really believe that government has a role in their lives. and they also know something that white voters have forgot. and that is that government created the middle class the first time around. only they mainly did it for white men, basically. and we can do it again for this next america. they get that. and marco rubio looks different, has a different name, says nice things about government, but it's the same old warmed over yafer or tea party nonsense. >> yeah! that's my point, joan. he's not saying anything new. he's saying i'm a latino, i can talk like this. he was actually saying i can echo the same old stuff you have been washing your mouth out with for 30, 40 years. same mouthwash. and if i say it not even with an accent, if i have a name rubio somehow that's new. >> i agree with what you're saying there. the problem was not with what came up to his lips, it was what was coming out. >> you brought your water with you. you have your prop. first last night i have seen this described as boring, pathetic. i've never heard a speech maker described as parched. i mean, his thirst was his
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crowning feature. >> you could see him literally wiping sweat and wiping lips. it was heading for a crisis. but i don't think that's a problem for marco rubio. in fact, we're talking about water instead of the fact that he gay this -- >> why was he so nervous last night? and he was so good at places like the convention? >> because time magazine calls him the savior of the republican party. all this pressure on him, all eyes on him. he did, he read the broiler plate script. the reason he's attractive is not just because of his background but he's offering something new in terms of a new republican immigration policy. he gave that the most passing of references last night. >> what's he for? the second class deal? >> he's now suggesting there should be a path to legalization. he's behind this deal but he's afraid to say it to his own base right now. >> let's go over this pattern. the republicans obviously are --
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you lose the election you try to make yourself more cosmetically pleasing. but look at the way it's been here. rubio, cruz with the nastiness again today, boehner. this sort of soured look at the $9 an hour minimum wage. don't republicans know they're stepping back into the bear trap when they say we don't even want to pay a guy 9 bucks an hour. we're not going to give them $18,000 a year. that's too much. it puts them right back in the trap where mitt romney was caught trashing the 47%. right back in there. they walked into it. >> but they're not getting that. because they live in a world of an echo chamber whether it's fox news. we know that raising the minimum wage has a negligible effect. where they peddle the same crummy numbers to one another whether it's about climate change or the minimum wage. and they don't really ever step out into a world where they're
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challenged. the other thing to go back to rubio and what dana said is that people in the media, not us, but they bear responsibility for putting this guy on the time cover as the republican savior when he's offering nothing but a 21st century name for 19th century policy. >> joan, joan, joan. i want to pick a point. are you expressing personal guilt for the fact time magazine called him the republican savior? >> no.
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i don't work there. >> i wouldn't have put him on the cover. never. >> i've got catholic guilt, but it doesn't go that far. i don't accept any guilt. he doesn't deserve it. >> part is everybody's trying to build up the next republican threat to obama. we're looking around like a fight game. a bunch of don kings. who's going to be the next guy to take on joe lewis? the bum of the month. who's going to be that guy? and everybody's in this game even you the sarcastic one. >> this is the time you build up these candidates so you can knock them down later. >> so christie? >> trying a bit with jindal now. >> he's down to about 35% now. >> but anyone who wants in at this point, we're going to go with. >> we're going to build them up to tear them down. thank you, joan. the un-guilty joan walsh. not at all in this regard. or any regard. thank you, dana milbank who writes a great column for the washington post. up next, the members of congress who arrive on the floor hours before the state of the union just so they can be seen doing this. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. back to "hardball." [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.
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jackson greeting president obama when he entered the chamber? it's not the first time she's staked out an aisle position. and she's got company. some members of congress are known to arrive up to 12 hours before the speech to get one of those seats. where they can be seen on camera with the president. and you've got to wait in person, by the way. the rule is no leaving a book or coat on that seat to claim your seat for the event later. sheila jackson says it's all for her constituents. quote, they are seeing me work on their behalf. many of them are moved by the moment. now retired dale kildee started showing up early the days of carter. there he is with bill clinton. he would arrive early and share snacks while awaiting facetime with the president. people would say gosh, i saw you shaking hands with the president. take a look at ohio republican gene schmidt at last year's address. >> well, unfortunately for miss
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schmidt, that success on the check turned into a radio attack ad for her challenger. >> there's someone kissing the president. who's that? looks like congresswoman jean schmidt. >> ahh schmidt. is she a democrat? she seems very close with the president. >> no, bob. she's a long-time republican politician but she did vote for the wall street bailout and for the president's debt limit increase. >> schmidt was primaried and lost for doing that, kissing the president. what did they say during their reaction? better butterfield nothing tops looking like you're sharing a joke in this case with president obama. quote, i said don't forget us in north carolina he said how could
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i. and we would erupt in laughter. that's a laugher. another tip, keep it short. howard engel remembers saying things like stand by israel to where "w" would say i believe that. finally we can't talk about the aisle strategies without bringing up the way many of us know michele bachmann. flash back to the state of the union when bush exited the room. >> mr. president, we can't wait for you to come to minnesota. >> you want us back in minnesota? >> oh, absolutely! >> well, she wouldn't let go of him there. that was before her 2008 comments on this show about some of her colleagues being, of course, anti-american. the democrats she's talking about. anyway, up next, the most dramatic moment from last night's state of the union was president obama's plea, very emotional plea for just a vote on gun safety. that's a low bar, but will it lead to new laws out there? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. i'm lorenzo.
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hey, there, here's what's happening. just moments ago, the sa san bernandino county sheriff said the man hunt for christopher dorner is over. he says the coroner is still working on confirming the identity of the remains. jeremiah mccay, who was married with two children. he had been with the department for 15 years. i'm veronica dela spcruz, let's get you back to "hardball." it has been two months since newtown. i know this is not the first time this country has debated how to reduce gun violence, but
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this time is different. >> welcome back to "hardball." president obama built up to a powerful moment last night as he made his case for new gun legislation invoking the memory of shooting victims included 16-year-old hadiya pendelton . >> three weeks ago she was here in washington with her classmates performing for her country at my inauguration. and a week later she was shot and killed in a chicago park after school. just a mile away from my house. hadiya's parents are in this chamber tonight along with two dozen americans whose lives have been torn apart by gun violence. they deserve a vote. gabby giffords deserves a vote.
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the families of newtown deserve a vote. the families of aurora deserve a vote. the families of oak creek and tucson and blacksburg and the countless other communities ripped open by gun violence, they deserve a simple vote. >> as you can see the public and the politico people are with them on this. the question is whether or not congressmen will get on board and pass meaningful gun safety reforms. congressman, i'm watching you. i am really watching you a lot lately. because you are a fascinating political figure. you represent a suburban county of philadelphia. you have been a prosecutor. you have a lot of, i could say, street cred in fighting crime and protecting police officers. where are you on gun safety? would you support an assault
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weapons ban? would you support a ban on these 30-round magazines? how far will you go in a very pro-gun state like pennsylvania? >> well, let me start with the legislation that we're dealing with, chris. i think it is something that can make a significant difference and we're working on a bipartisan fashion to put forward legislation that will go after the straw purchasers. and that is the way we're watching guns get into the hands of criminals who are then going and acting out both in violent scenes in inner city neighborhoods and oftentimes in other kinds of cases like domestic violence. getting into the hands of people that should not have that gun. so i'm hopeful that we can make some progress on something like that. now, what it does is that's a thing that has been proven to have an impact and can make a difference. and i think that's what i'm looking for in gun legislation.
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>> well, what about the other proposals i mentioned? >> well, i think one of the other things and you're seeing from the experience again that i've had as a prosecutor, my sense is there's a growing support for at least looking at very, very seriously the gun show loophole which is another way that will create at least an ability to have an impact on, you know, this question. and that's another area where i think you're going to probably see some support. >> should it not be able to buy a bushmaster? like in newtown, connecticut, should that kind of a person if he were to go into a store or a gun show be able to buy that kind of weapon as you see it? >> well, the person we're worried about is getting the guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them. criminals and people with the mental issues. i think we've got to do more work to make sure we're cutting that inappropriate sale off. that ought to be the place we really focus. i think, chris, that's another thing. what can we get done? >> i agree. i accept that argument, but -- the question the president raised last night i think effectively in terms of rhetoric and politics was at least have a vote. do you expect the speaker will
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bring up a vote on assault weapons? will he do that? >> my sense is -- what you're watching happening right now is people are going to see how serious the president is in putting his influence into working i think first with the senate. and harry reid is really the guy who i think is on the front lines on this issue right now. what are they going to do in the senate, what's going to get out. and what will come forward. in that context, i'm hopeful because there are people on the other side of the aisle working together with the legislation that we've put here. not point for point the same, but very similar. so i'm hopeful that that's the kind of a thing we can get some action on that bill and see what else gets through the senate. >> good luck. i'm with you on this. thank you very much pat mann who is a very respected prosecutor in that region before he took the congress seat. thanks for joining us, mark.
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i think you saw the situation there he is from an area in play now. they're going to be rough on any gun action. as you're following this, toughest issue is assault weapons. are we going to have any chance of getting a ban on them? >> yes. >> if the senate goes and house passes. >> i don't think it's over until it's over. i think people will -- >> will harry reid bring it up for a vote? >> i hope so. >> what are you hearing? >> we think that people ought to be given the opportunity to offer bills, offer amendments on the senate floor. he said it's going to be an open process. >> so if schumer wants a bill, it'll get a vote. and you think that'll happen?
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>> i think so. >> let's talk about this trafficking bill. how much of a mark would that play? how much would that stop dangerous behavior with guns? if you were stopping people from buying guns who had a criminal intent? >> right now the penalty for that is something like the same as for trafficking livestock or chickens. and that's not a particularly stiff penalty and a lot of prosecutors don't want to do it. adding a penalty will make a difference. it's an important bill. >> if the call comes from chicago, i want to get semiautomatic weapons i'm going after a bank job, they would not suffer a serious criminal threat? >> straw purchasing for example is when somebody who is able to buy a gun because they have a clean record buys them for somebody else. passes them on. right now the way you get that person is proving they lied on their background check form. that's a weak penalty. it's hard to prove. nobody really wants to take those cases unless they involve a lot of guns and a lot of
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people. there ought to be a stiffer, clear statute. >> give me a picture of a really good background check that had no exceptions. how would that work? would it keep it out of the people who are criminally insane, obviously. spousal abusers, people with regular criminal records. give me a sense of how it would work. you go to a gun store, they check you out. they don't make the sale on the location. you have to wait, right? >> the way it would work right now if you go to a federally licensed dealer, you get a background check. >> when do you get the gun? >> you buy the gun right then. a background check takes two minutes. that's why the other side who says it's a big burden are not really honest if we're being honest with ourselves. >> it's like a police officer stopping you for speeding. >> every police stop i've had took longer than a background check. >> you're working for tommy of boston and all the other mayors. and a reminder for us, the conversation at "hardball" continues long after we're off air here. visit our blog at
7:45 pm or find us on facebook the other big story we've been following, christopher dorner. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ coughs ] [ breathes deeply, wind blows ] [ male announcer ] halls. let the cool in. thto fight chronic. osteoarthritis pain. to fight chronic low back pain. to take action. to take the next step. today, you will know you did something for your pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is a pain reliever fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one non-narcotic pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens, you have unusual changes in mood or behavior
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national review. barbour lamented the fact republicans have kicked away winnable senate seats by nominating far right candidates. he says republican donors should stop giving money to conservative groups that attack mainstream republicans. republican civil war is getting red hot. we'll be right back. mine was earned in djibouti, africa, 2004. the battle of bataan, 1942. [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans, and their families is without equal.
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the week-long manhunt for revenge seeking ex-police officer christopher dorner seemingly came to a fiery and violent end yesterday in big bear lake, california. many questions remain tonight about the former lapd officer and what sent him on a killing spree claiming four lives including the daughter of his former boss. his manifesto, he was trying to clear his name after being fired by the lapd back in 2009 which was four years ago. he claims specific people he wanted to go after saying quote,
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they have awoken a sleeping giant. one person who may have some insight into that what bratton was the l.a. police chief at the time of dorner's firing. he is also a much respected police commissioner the city of new york. he was much affected by dorner's chilly manifesto, as was i. do you have a sense of how this is going to go down in history, this case? >> i think it is historic in the sense there are many unique aspects to it, the scale, the magnitude, and some aspects of it. i would hope he goes down in history as what he is, a reprehensible murderer. and it's unfortunate that there are those seeking to legitimize him and his actions. you can't legitimize what he did. >> this is what makes this story i think fascinating to people, negatively and in some strange cases positively. he is a police officer. the idea of a police officer who is trained to defend the weak goes after others in his police
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department, goes after his colleagues, fellow officers with this almost, you know, choreographed effort, putting out their names, saying i'm going to go after them. putting out a manifesto with all this opinion about everything on the planet. what a strange mind we have here. and i think that's why it's fascinating to people. >> well, i think that's part of the attraction of this incident, apart from the magnitude of the case, the violence, the number of murders and shootings. it was also interesting he was incredibly focused on police officers and their families. in the two instances in which he came across civilians, the individual who he stole a truck from up in bear mountain yesterday, and the two house cleaners who he held captive for a period of time, he did not harm them, did not seek to harm them, as best i understand. his actions were very specifically directed in a very vicious and violent way. and unfortunately effective way against police and their families. and that issue of going after
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their families, that is not done in america that is relatively unique expression of anger and violence that happens elsewhere in the world with some frequency. but going after government officials in this country, going after their families is almost unheard of. >> let me ask you about this, the motive here, and the right and wrong thing. we constantly think about what is insanity and what is sanity. the fact that he could delineate, distinguish between the police officers he was targeting and their families, which you say is especially malicious and the fact that he would spare the live of other people he came across where he wouldify them up which is much more difficult if you want to keep a person out of action. what do cow think of that? was he sane and evil at the same time? or how would you describe what kind of mind he had at the point while he was doing these things? >> chris, i had access to three different profiles that were done on him, including some within law enforcement. and it is quite obvious that
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this was a deteriorating situation, a very narcissistic individual, very full of himself. one of them described him as an injustice collector, that he was quick to be slighted, quick to perceive that people were out to get him. and he magnified these within his own mind. so for the lapd, one of the things they're going to have to do in their after action initiatives is take a close look as to how he got on the job in the first place. they have one of the most exhaustive screening processes in the country, and he was able to slip through. so whether his deterioration began after he became a police officer and with his deployments overseas, or whether there were signs that were missed early on, that will be part of the follow-up of the investigation in this whole matter. >> you know, in d.c. where i lived and have worked all these years, there was a program where they raced a lot of people into the service and they made a lot of mistakes. >> they did that in miami also back in the '80s. and the border patrol right now is finding with their
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significant ramp-up over the last couple of years, a lot of people got on the job who should not have gotten on -- into those positions. >> let me ask you about a police officer. do you find having led them into battle, led them into very difficult neighborhoods and drug situations and middle of the night horror stories, you have to go to clubs and break things up, what special pressure is there on a cop that there isn't on other people that would maybe make a person break bad? >> first and foremost, what you described. they are expected to go toward danger, in this circumstance, and every instance in which they came into the contact with the suspect, they were going toward him to engage him. they were not fleeing from him. were they fearful? certainly, they would not be human if they were not for an individual who was specifically targeting them. but we are very fortunate in this country to be represented by the police profession that is made up of people who are very different than this individual turned out to be. >> boy, a lot of courageous men and women out there.
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>> exactly. >> thank you very much. you're one of the great ones. bill bratton, former commissioner l.a., commissioner in new york city. we'll be right back. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day.
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let me finish tonight with this tragic story of christopher dorner, this ex-police officer who we believe came to his fiery end in the california foothills. we live in a big country. so many people living lives of challenge and joy and sadness, and so often basic human triumph. people grow up. they survive the tough time of adolescence. they get past the taunts and the
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hazes and the clickishness of high school, times we're told are the best of our lives but aren't. we get by the challenge of finding work, finding someone to love and be loved why. we get children, meeting as strangers and committing them for our lives. this is how three million plus of us do it. we do. we make it. we live lives that end up making good sense to those around us. and sometimes in the worst of times for some, it all goes bad. sometimes it's in the way we think or feel or can't do either. and it all breaks down, and we too become dangerous, even lethal. when these things happen, they make the news. and we feel something. but what is it? as we watch this story of a man killing others, killing out of vengeance, or dead-end human frustration with human existence itself, what do we make of it? it's easy to tell these stories, as we did last night, and we did, i did, here on television. this story of a former police officer, former military officer who served his country, ending up in a cabin up in the california mountains, fighting it out, knowing that it's all come to this.


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