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tv   The Daily Rundown  MSNBC  February 21, 2013 9:00am-10:00am EST

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>> i learned steny hoyer has great ideas that should be explored if not em placed. >> i'm sorry. >> it's a 48 from crew. it's 48, not 57. >> we need chick-fil-as on every block, baby. >> and big gulps. >> it's way too early. what time is it? >> it's time for the "morning joe," but now it's time for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. >> stop thinking about it. >> don't get me hungry with a lot of burger references. i know what you are, but what am i? that could be the sad synopsis over the debate of the sequester. numbers show the president has the upper hand but speaker boehner and other republicans are pointing the finger back to him. reports on how much the chinese military is involved in
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disrupting cyberspace. and ready for this, mitt romney is leaving his fortress of solitude, making his entrance at cpac. he is one time on a giant list on what amounts to an unofficial off-year republican convention. >> good morning, from the university of virginia. it's thursday, february 21st, 2013, and this is "the daily rundown." now here's chuck todd. >> thank you to professor larry sabado's class at the university of virginia. and of course the cav man, keep them coming. if you didn't win today, try tomorrow. as the president continues a public pressure campaign today, the first decent set of national poll numbers are coming out
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since the squirs battle began, and it shows republicans are going to pay a steeper price right now if cuts go into effect next friday. but the white house -- >> today the president will take his pitch to african-american radio. he'll do interviews with radio shows hosted by yolanda adams. yesterday the president did his best to make sure communities across the country know they'll feel real pain in their homes. >> we've got some automatic spending cuts coming up in nine days that will lay out of hundreds of thousands of folks. there's no reason they should lose their job or be laid off. this is a problem the congress can solve. things like head start programs and help for the mentally ill, all these things have a direct impact on people's day-to-day lives. we do not need these automatic,
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mindless spending cuts that could hurt our economy. all of us need to take responsibility for thinking about the same patriotism, duty that we see on display in our military. >> somewhat awkwardly president obama discovered that that's "not in my backyard" can apply to things like proposal to -- >> nobody who is going to buy a corporate jet is going to not buy it because of a small tax break. >> but you understand these middle class workers say it is because of the threat of this proposal to take away. >> i'm sure that some of these companies who want to keep these tax breaks for their customers, i get that, but that's not the reason that there's going to be an impact in terms of their sales. >> you could tell which states
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actually have some of these companies that build some of these private planes. president's pressure shows no signs of swaying republicans. both sides are digging in their heels, leading to a game of finger pointing about who loved the sequester more. democrats, they participated yesterday by circulating a 2011 powerpoint that speaker boehner's office had put out at the time. they did that yesterday. he created it when he was trying to sell the deal to his more conservative members. so republicans, they spent the day yesterday passing around this video of a montana democratic senator, max caucus who's up for re-election in 2014, who was saying this about the sequester. >> the white house recommended it frankly, back in august 2011, so now we're feeling the effects of it. >> of all the dumb things washington does, this who
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started it argument has proven to be one of the dumber ones. this morning usa today and the pew research center are out with new numbers showing the president is winning the issue. 45% say they support the president, 38% support the republicans. three out of four americans do say a deficit plan should include tax increases and spending cuts, a combination similar to the balanced approach the president backs. if the sequester does go into effect, this poll shows republicans stand to pay a steeper price. 49% would blame congressional republicans. just 31% would blame the president. 49% said the cuts should be delayed. and most worrying if you're the white house, most americans aren't paying attention to the coming deadline. only about a quarter surveyed say they have heard a lot about
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it. some fatigue, is it setting in on this issue. that said, if you're the republicans, you're losing on a whole slew of these issues right now as you're getting measured on the sequester. if the public is paying attention, you look at these signs as a warning more tot gop than to the white house. we've said before that a second term really isn't four years long. the president himself acknowledged that that is true and that he only has about a year to enact what he has, an ambitious agenda, pushing things like tax reform, budget cuts and gun control. >> i'd like to get as much stuff done as quickly as possible. even though i'm just starting my second term, i know that, you know, once we get through this year, then people start looking at the mid-terms and after that, they start thinking about presidential elections. >> the president also made his first public comments on the
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white house immigration leak. >> that certainly didn't jeopardize the entire process. negotiations are still moving forward. information floats out of washington all the time. that shouldn't prevent anybody from moving forward. >> the president was also asked by a san francisco station about whether the white house will weigh in on proposition eight, which bans gay marriage. >> the solicitor general is still looking at this. i have to make sure i'm not interjecting myself too much into this process, particularly when we're not a party to the case. i can tell you my personal view, which is that i think that same-sex couples should have the same rights and be treated like everybody else. >> all signs a are pointing that they're going to file some sort of brief. and the president made his first public comments about his golf
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outing with tiger woods. >> he plays a different game than i do. is he more nervous because he's playing with you or are you more nervous? >> i don't think either party was nervous. i think he knew i wasn't a big threat to his world ranking and i knew that i better keep my day job. >> when it comes to the day job, south carolina congressional race which may end up hitting steven colbert's sister, the president declined to weigh in on the democratic primary but said i'm sure it will be a spirited contest. and elizabeth colbert busch, she goes by colbert, will be on this show next week. finally, the other big political story today has to do with healthcare. florida governor rick scott has announced he will expand medicaid under president obama's healthcare law. scott becomes the seventh healthcare governor and the fifth running for re-election in 2014 to accept the expansion.
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basically you could look at it that just about any blue governor in a state that obama carried seems to be finding a way to compromise on healthcare and that includes scott, even before he was thought of as a candidate in any state, he put his opposition to healthcare and he made it the center of his 2010 campaign. >> so i bet you're wondering, where have i seen that handsome bald guy before, right? it was here, when i was a leading critic of the obama health plan. he asked for it. he thinks more government is all the the answer. >> not surprisingly conservatives land blasted scott's decision. quote, today he came out in the medicaid expansion he vowed to oppose. at every level of government, it is too easy to spend other
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people's money. when politicians feel they must do to get re-elected instead of doing what's right, they often lose re-election, and if not, they lose their way. it is a sad day for conservatives. folks, this is political pragmatism from a guy who has to turn around and run in florida next year. there is one exception to this blue and purple state. it's virginia's bob macdonald. macdonald doesn't have to run for relocation. he doesn't have a governor's race in his future. the next one he faces may be with republican primary voters in the state of iowa in 2016. when it comes to health changes under the healthcare law, 25 of the 50 states have -- looks like the red-blue map.
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17 states in the district have said they are planning on running their own exchanges. we're going to go more into this throughout the months ahead. up next, a sequester strategy session with two top veterans of congress, with capitol hill. will they wait till the last minute again to avoid a budget blow-up? and why is the threat of complete chaos the only way to find a deal. plus new concerns for chuck hagel and john brennan. first, milks planner. vice president biden doing a gun event in danbury, connecticut today. and then house democrats are doing a not in session sequestration hearing. it's basically a political event. you're watching "the daily rundown" on msnbc. one. two. three. my credit card rewards are easy to remember
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so the automatic spending cuts are just over a week away. speaker boehner is employing an interesting strategy. yet standing firm on letting those cuts happen. in a piece headline, the gop's astonishing bad message. ask this, the effect of boehner's argument is to make obama seem reasonable in comparison. rush limbaugh appeared at a loss to explain the boehner op-ed. >> why would republicans support something that does what boehner says it's going to do? i don't have an answer. i can't explain it to you.
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all i know is that it doesn't make any sense. >> at the same time, the white house is embracing boehner's message and says it makes their point for them. >> the president believes it is essential that we avoid these cuts. it is bad policy. the speaker himself says it is bad policy. >> with me now, former louisiana democratic senator john bro and former congressman tom davis. tom, i'm going to start with you, can you explain the john boehner message? and does he really want to find a solution here or does he have to appease conservatives? >> first, you got to do both. you got to appease the conservatives first. the cr wasn't a good fight. >> continuing resolution. >> right. >> got to speak a little english. >> they lose to fight. this is their best fight. and they got to show their base they're willing to follow
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through. i think they'll follow quickly with an appropriation bill for the rest of the year in a defense that will supplant this. >> all right. does president obama and the senate democrats, senator brone, need to pass something? do they just continue to try to do public opinion? >> here we are at another cliff in washington, d.c. we have more in washington, d.c., than in the grand canyon. i think the democrats and the senate will pass a bill but they're not going to get 60 votes so it can't pass a full senate. republicans will offer an alternative and that's not going to pass. if that happens, i think you're looking at the fiscal cliff coming into effect and these cuts coming into effect. >> but i guess, what different ways should the president -- should he be calling everybody into the oval office? what should he be doing differently?
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>> it's too late now. march the 1st it's going to go into effect. the problem in the house and the nate is there's no real center anymore. there's a very small group of centers like we used to have in the house and senate. they're not there anymore, and you can't negotiate something like this from the far left or far right. you got to start in the middle and work your way out and the president has to be seriously involved in the center. >> it's interesting, karl rove, who, tom, writes in his op-ed today, doesn't have to do with the other project he's working on. he said house republicans should pass a resolution next week that funds the balance for the fiscal year, at the lower level dictated by the sequester but with language that grants the executive branch to move funds to more parents ones. here you go, these are the spending levels. give the president all the power to decide how to move the money
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around. >> i think that's under consideration. i don't think the white house wants that. they've got to make a tough choice. >> republicans aren't going to want that either because they'll assume that when it doubt the obama administration will pick over republicans. >> in terms of passing the continuation resolution at the lower level, they may even get specific on the defense side but at least putting the onus on the administration. we go over the cliff march 1st but how long will it last? i think the houses will send a v volley over the to the senate very quickly. >> i think it's hampered by the fact mitch mcconnell is up for re-election. mcconnell is corner up for re-election and only vulnerable essentially to a primary. >> in the house or senate, if you're up for re-election you fear a primary against you.
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you used to worry about the general election but now republicans and some democrats are worried about getting attacked from the left or far right with tea party candidates and so i got to play to that base. i think you see that with mitch mcconnell from the right and other john carnen's word from the right. that makes it less likely for them to be able to compromise. >> tom, look at the polling. it's just started and almost republicans started to hold on this and the president's pr campaign has only begun. >> they have an institutional advantage in the house. >> i understand they're politically safe, but as they stay politically safe, the brand of the party continues to go down. don't they have a responsibility to say, wait a moment, it is literally cutting off their nose? >> i think that's what the speaker has been trying to tell members, but he's had a hard time. >> i look at a state of virginia that's going to lose a ton of jobs on this.
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republican governor, eric cantor in the house, does that have any motivation? >> it's certainly not enough for them to blame obama. 00,000 civilians they're talking about this morning being laid off. i don't think it's enough for a member to say it's not my fault, it's the president's fault. they want a solution, not just someone to blame. >> but doesn't the fact if cantor and mccarthy, from two states that are going to get hit harder than most, that you could see a compromise being brought to the floor that doesn't have a majority of the majority? >> you could, but i think this is not a cliff. this is a slope. it kicks in march 1st. the notices don't go out, and i think the republicans will supplant the sequestering legislation right now with something of their own and c.r., giving flexibility or more government cuts. >> there going to be a government shutdown? >> they're not even in town.
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>> it'll be a government slou slowdown. >> thank you. i'm surprised you're not at spring training. up next romney's return and the invitation no republican can refuse this year. plus, thousands of miles from home, senator marco rubio doesn't want to escape his watershed moment. but first, since president nixon's historic visit to china's how many vigorate president's have not visited that country? the answer coming up after the break. we'll be right back. my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love.
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first licensed graham says he plans to block the nomination of john brennan. new york times reports the white house is negotiating a way to provide more information on attack rather than agreeing with demands from democrats in the intelligence committee to release classed information on the legal justifications involved in the targeted killing drone program. the white house hopes to create a bipartisan majority vote for brennen by giving each side a little of what they want. so they'll give more benghazi e-mails in that 24-hour period of the attack itself, which is something licensed graham's been asking for, but not releasing those memos which ron widen and tom udall have been asking about. unfavorable opinions of chuck hagel have increased. 18 favorable, 17 unfavorable. well, now, if you look at it,
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26% republicans viewed him in a negative light. 36% of republicans view him unfavorably. that's up 10 points. democrat number are up 23. his unfavorable rating now sits at 28%. mitt romney is set to return to the republican spotlight, at least for a short period of time next week. romney's been keeping a low profile since losing the presidential election. he is one of the many big names on the spectrum of speakers to address the conference this year. ranging from jeb bush to sarah palin, chris christie may be the only major republican figure in the party that is not going to go to cpac. finally, marco rubio poked some fun at his water break after meeting with netanyahu
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wednesday. the prime minister put the picture on his instagram account. rubio talked about israel's relationships with its neighbors, peace negotiations and strengthening the u.s.-israeli strategic partnership. up next, the hacking into american computers. we're taking a deep dive into the security threat, who's being targeted and whether the u.s. government can do anything to stop it or whether they want to do anything to actively attempt to stop it. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] if you can clear a crowd but not your nasal congestion, you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec-d®. powerful relief of nasal congestion and other allergy symptoms -- all in one pill. zyrtec-d®. at the pharmacy counter.
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41 years later the u.s. and china are still uneasy upmatic partners with an escalating cyber cold war becoming one of the points of contention. today what the attacks mean for u.s. security. china has been blamed for some of the largest cyber attacks in the history of this country. a decade ago it was a chinese operation that targeted systems at the army's red stone arsenal over a period of three years. in 2008, and according to the cyber firm mandiant, highly sophisticated chinese hackers have targeted since 2006, from aerospace companies, making off with huge amounts of data in the process. perpetrators have been traced back to this building in
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shanghai. recent incidents have piqued u.s. concern of a much more damaging attack on u.s. infrastructure, something leon panetta touched on this month. >> it is very possible the next pearl harbor could be a cyber attack, that you could in fact cripple our financial systems with a cyber attack and it would have one hell of an impact on the united states of america. that is something we have to worry about and protect against. >> spokesman for the nsc says we have repeatedly raised of our concerns with chinese officials including the military and we will continue to do so. china is denying the accusations. recently the president signed a directive creating new standards to protect critical computer systems. and on wednesday attorney general eric holder announced a plan to combat cyber tleft,
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another threat with widespread impact. >> this type of crime can have significant impacts not only on our country's well-being but national security as well. it could endanger american lives, expose our energy, financial or other sensitive sectors to massive losses or make our infrastructure more vulnerable to attack. >> james falus has bryn the book on china, and he is a national correspondent for atlantic. mr. falus. >> thank you, chuck. >> let's start with what is it that china is doing here. why do they want to do all of these cyber attacks? is it a way to catch up on technology? >> i think it's a lot of different things. over the decades, there have been all sorts of allegation, and partly it's just random
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hackers, partly crooks looking to scam your e-mail account or mine. partly it's corporations. for example, coca-cola, the merger didn't go through. and partly it is military,th chinese military trying to find what's happening in the u.s. military. the u.s. military is ahead in almost all ways, it's advantageous for the chinese to sneak in. >> mike rogers says right now there is no incentive for the chinese to stop doing this. if we don't create a high price, it's only going to keep accelerating. and the response to the mandiant report was, yeah, we hate this but we still want to do business in china. >> i think there's a long-term dilemma in the u.s. putting pressure on china. >> it's always been the case. don't mess with china. >> and public scolding almost never gets anything done with
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them because their first reaction is to stone wall even more. and so the u.s. finds it lace down a marker on something public and then the next year or two it uses that to advance the negotiation. we know what is going on here and we have different proof from before. we see this building, we have all this evidence. that'll be the next talks. >> are you pretty convinced there's some government coordination here? >> yes. >> how high up? >> it is -- the people's liberation army and the chinese political system are not as connected as you might think. it's a much more on its own operation than the u.s. military or western military. and so it's hard to say. some of it must be centrally directed. some of it, who knows, if it's not locally ambitious intel person. so it's all the explanations above apply. >> i have heard from intelligence officials i've talked with, they will say there
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are more attacks coming from china. >> i've heard that china is one of the main perpetrates here but not the only one. also the same officials point out the u.s. is no slouch in this field. the chinese are well aware of that. >> that's big a big bone of -- obviously, they've used it. you heard the administration officials sort of phoned it and say, they don't acknowledge they ever did it but they say they only used it for national security purposes. couldn't the chinese come out and say all they're doing is for national security? >> sure, and i feel from their perspective, they feel they're behind on this front too. i think one other point is you had secretary panetta saying this could be the cyber pearl harborer. that would be the case if we were already at war for some other reason. the chinese is not going to take down the u.s. infrastructure nor -- >> this is not the motivation of the chinese.
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>> exactly. >> it is we think to steal secrets. >> yes, we think the corporate stealing -- >> you think that's -- >> that's the most destructive to national interests and i think that's where they'll be hammering hardest next month, next year. it is in the chinese interest to clean this up because otherwise their economy will never become a modern one. >> i was going to say, mike rogers says there's no incentive to stop doing. >> the fortune 500 companies won't stop doing business. >> thank you very much for coming in. >> my pleasure. >> up next, president obama keeps up the sequester pressure while conservative critics pile on karl rove, thus spilling some senate secrets. i have to say i didn't see this one coming, but again, does anything surprise us anymore. our gaggle will be here.
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our commitment has never been stronger. president obama continued to play his outside game on the looming sequester cuts, holding interviews with eight local stations from across the country. the president placed the blame squarely on the shoulders of congress. >> they're not necessary. they'll hurt our economy. they'll raise the unemployment rate, and the reason is because congress has not been able to compromise on a deficit reduction package that's more sensible. >> joining me now michelle ber in order, democratic strategyist, patty doyle, and my nbc colleague at the white house, kristen walker. welcome all. kristen, i want to put up the
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map of, we'll show you everybody where the president spoke yesterday in these local interviews, from boston. there was definitely a pattern here, honolulu, big military town. they clearly believe this p.r. strategy's going to work even because they say it worked the last time, right? >> right. that is the strategy, to put public pressure on congress to get something done, but at this point in time, it doesn't seem like it's working. right, not scheduling meetings, haven't had any read-outs of any meetings, trying to get a sense of if that's going to come. doesn't seem like the president's going to be picking up the phone at this point in time. it does seem as if it's deadlocked. the question is how does it move forward? if you talk to people on both sides of pennsylvania avenue, they say it is likely the
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sequester is going to kick in. so not a lot of optimism for a deal right now. >> if the sequester deal isn't reached, 49 delay. i look at that 40. that's the republican base, and that's the republican congressional district, and it goes right to the what's the incentive for house republicans to compromise? >> i think one of the things people need to keep in mind is even though we look like we're deadlocked right now, maybe the democratic strategy with regard to republicans is looking at the 2014 mid-term elections. it's a high number of republicans that want the status quo, but the vast majority of the american public does not want this. and i think that if the sequester deal, if it actually happens, when you start seeing these stories across the country about the impact on real people's lives, it's going to hurt republicans and in 2014 that's a huge problem for the
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republican party. >> patty, there's two sort of truths during these budget showdowns. republicans always have a pr problem. the public has punished them. for the president, he's come out ahead on some of them. debt ceiling he was dragged down almost -- he's never been had low as -- he was dragged down. is there a risk here for the president if he uses a lot of bluster but then looks like he can't get something do i know? >> i don't think so. i think this is what he has at his disposal. he's been very good at, he and his team have been very good at taking it to the streets, so to speak. he's campaigning out there for this. he's standing up there with first responders. i wouldn't put it past him standing up with air traffic controllers. and this is what he has at his disposal. and frankly, it's working. congress's approval rating, pretty low still. >> couldn't you argue, the
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republican party strategy over the last few years of saying no to everything president obama won largely helped him get re-elected. >> what i don't understand is the republican messaging here, why they don't, and it goes to sort of the -- ♪ who's that lady? ♪ who's that lady? ♪ sexy lady ♪ who's that lady? [ female announcer ] swiffer sweeper's electrostatic dry cloths attract and lock dirt, dust, and hair on contact to clean 50% more than a broom. it's a difference you can feel. swiffer gives cleaning a whole new meaning. and now swiffer wet and dry refills are available with the fresh scent of gain. with simple, real ingredients, like roasted peanuts, creamy peanut butter, and a rich dark-chocolate flavor, plus 10 grams of protein, so it's energy straight from nature to you. nature valley protein bars.
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okay, we're back. we plugged everything back in. we asked, since president nixon's historic visit to china, how many sitting presidents have not visited the country? the answer was just one, jimmy carter. the chinese vice premier visited the u.s. during carter's presidency. carter is the only president since nixon not to visit china during their own term. congratulations to today's winner, paul axel. well, let me bring back the panel here. patty solis doyle, michelle
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bernard. sorry about that. the good news is, it was new york's fault. it's not us. we're happy about that. so i was going to the sort of the messaging of the republicans here, and we were talking about that. i guess whyproact tivly more saying this is what we were brought here to do, we don't like the way sequester is going, but you give us no choice. why don't they go with that message than what boehner did? that's made a lot of conservatives scratch their heads. >> the answer is we have absolutely no idea. it's happening now. maybe they will watch you today and say, you know what? we've got to get our messages straight. it makes no sense. >> you saw this, in the byron york column, patty, that basically said, what are you doing? you're agreeing with the president's words? that these are drastic, this is too much, this isn't the right way to do it?
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>> you know, i'm with you. i don't get it. there seems to be a lot of blame going around. frankly, there is a lot of blame to go around, but we are where we are. i'm going to quote my favorite secretary of state, what difference does it make? we are here. what are we going to do about it? i want to switch topics, calf rove defending himself on this whole what he's up to. i'm told we don't have it. he was sort of trying to answer his critics, who were saying enough of karl rove. we do have a problem on the right, too many organizations run by consultants more concerned with their fees and profits than advancing their cause. rove has been defending himself saying i don't make money on this. that is true, he is not making money on american crossroads, but he is becoming the point person for the right to be up on. >> he's gotten so much criticism from rush limbaugh, which
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underscores how divided the party is. i know we're going to talk about cpac, and all folks who will speak, but there's a division, a struggle to get on message. >> michelle, the center of gravity has quickly shifted away? >> it's shifted away, but -- >> cpac is the new establishment? >> it is the new establishment, but it is a problem for the republican party. if you listen to the words that karl rove is giving us, it makes sense. if you're just an average person watching this on television, i would say that most of those people are -- agree with karl rove. they have to get their act together. >> they know they do, but they're afraid of alienating -- >> who wants rush limbaugh yelling about you for three hours? >> i've not known how to do this story, but as a political junkie, it's a story i have not been able to finish reading about. senator domenici released the
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statement -- i fathered a child outside my marriage. i deeply regret this and am sorry he kept the secret because the mother of the child, a republican strategist asked him not to do so. at the time her father was also a u.s. senator from the state of nevada. his son is today an attorney in las vegas. it's sort of proof nothing should surprise us anymore in politics. >> nothing does me, anyway. but i think the domenici has been out of office for a decade. it's a private matter, and my heart and prayers go out to the family. i hope they survive it. >> i feel for the son here. >> yeah. >> more than anybody else. i'm not saying -- look, everybody else makes mistakes and the human flesh, in this town in particular. so many people -- and somebody jokes it's like they're all sexually deprived when they hit washington. >> and how tough it is to keep
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with accident forgiveness, they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands? good morning, i'm chris jansing. this morning we are watching the ultimate game of political chicken over the $85 billion sequester that's about to hit next week. new polls show president obama may have the upper hand. bloomberg puts the president's approval rating at a three-year high, 55%, 24 points higher than republicans in congress. a new usa today/pew poll shows the approval rate not quite as high. both sides are already plaming each other the if nothing happens, 8900,000 civilian workers in the defense department are on notice they could be furloughed.
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the president talked about with kofr in oklahoma city. >> instead of us cutting mental health programs, instead of us affecting military readiness, and a whole range of other things, we should be focused on programs that we know don't work, waste in government and some of these tax loopholes that we could close that frankly only benefit the well off and well connected. now i need congress to act and they have nine days to do it. i want to bring in chris fast-breaks and michael crowley. time is running out. who blinks? i don't know that either side blinks. both sides will go after the march 1st deadline. i was talking to a very moderate senator, who was telling me he thinks this could maybe go into june where you let the sequester go into effect and you see what kind of effects there are from it, are people upset? are they feeling the pain?
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and at that point, you kind of have some room and you see how the politics shake out. both sides right now, as you said, are playing political chicken. right now the white house feels like the polls is on their side, they can continue to beat republicans up, saying they're favoring the rich, they don't want to talk the rich anymore, it's a strong message that worked for them in the fiscal cliff and republicans are saying we already raised taxes, it's time to get serious about spending. who blinks i think will be determined as this shakes out and we see who is feeling the pain and how loud do those people get? >> michael, how confident is the without that thole will blink? >> first of all, they feel like the polling is with them. there's some talk in and out that air travel could be disrupted, you know, at the present time sa, lines at the


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