tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC October 2, 2013 11:00pm-12:00am EDT
i have blue cross & blue shield now. i was one of the lucky ones. how about the 30 million americans that dent hatch ion't. you saw people, through the millions. all over the country, enter the exchange and have health insurance and not precluded because they have good evening, from new york, good evening, from new york, i'm chris hayes, and just a short while ago the president met with the top four congressional leaders at the white house where he urged the house to pass a clean continuing resolution. in the last hour, house speaker john boehner said he would not bring a clean cr to the floor,
while senate majority leader harry reid said they will not budge on any funding overtures aimed at funding only certain parts of the government. >> we have sent over four proposals and they have rejected all of them. we sat down to resolve the differences, they will not negotiate. i would hope that the democrat and my democratic colleagues in the senate would listen to the american people and sit down and have a serious discussion about resolving these differences. >> i went through a little litany of things we would be able to talk about, or anything he wanted to talk about. we said we'll be happy to talk about discretionary spending, we'll talk about agriculture, health care, parks, we'll talk about anything that you want to talk about. and he says no. all i want to do is go to conference on a short-term cr. we have a debt ceiling staring
us in the face. and we wants to talk about a short-term cr? >> senate democrats have indicated a number of times those proposals from the house, the continuing resolution to fund little slivers of the government are dead on arrival. meanwhile, the discussion seemed to resolve around the favorite talking point. >> all the national monuments are closed down including the world war ii memorial on the mall. but the simple barricades didn't stop a group of world war ii vets. >> some idiot in government sent goons out there to put up a barricade. this administration thinks it is a political gain? let's close the up and make these guys suffer? >> yes, the gop's method are that they are working overtime to keep the vets out of the memorial. >> that is why we showed up today.
>> according to texas congressman steve stockman "democrats are curb stomping veterans." and today, republicans continue to rally to the cause of world war ii vets. >> to keep them from the memorial, to honor them for their greatest accomplishment. >> it is mean spirited, what is being done. >> outrage that they caused the memorial to be closed for their visit. >> the republican national committee has put aside enough money to hire five security personnel full-time to keep the memorial open for veterans. >> the unmistakable irony, of course, is that the crew that showed up to gawk at the fire is the same group that lit the match. >> we are not going to let the world war ii veterans be used as political pawns. >> and speaking of pawns, the gop is moving forward with a new strategy with gusto.
>> we should move forward, so example, the continuing resolution that would simply continue the funding for the v.a. >> she said you can't pick and choose what part of the government you want to fund, you can't just say this -- >> rather than pass a bill to fund the government, republicans are now trying to fund parts of the government that will make for the best press releases. a strategy dismissed by the white house. >> it is a gimmick, unsustainable, and not serious. >> and if this sounds familiar, it is exactly what happened with the sequester. >> all the air traffic controllers should be back on the job soon after congress voted to end the furloughs voted forced a week ago. >> congress ends the delays, but more than 6,000 kids were cut from headstart. and guess what is not going to
be one of the gop's new mini funding bills? >> headstart services stopped for about 19,000 low income children. without them, this florida a&m student victoria thomas will have to find a baby-sitter for her daughter, faith. >> that puts me more in debt. >> there is also not a bill to reinstate women and children on nutritional assistance. >> for now, federal programs that affects millions of americans are shut down, including nutrition benefits called wic for roughly nine million pregnant women and new mothers, like atlanta's jackson and her daughter savannah. >> if i didn't have wic, i would basically have to drop out of school and go to work to be able to supply formula and food for my child. >> house republicans are also not going to be funding programs to feed children after school. >> did y'all eat today? >> no. >> 6-year-old janika got fed when she got home.
but the same could not be said for every other child at the oak haven branch for girls and boys. >> because the government shut down, our food was not delivered. >> so yes, world war ii vets should be able to see the memorial, and children should be able to attend head start, and poor women and children should get nutritional assistance, and there is an easy way for john boehner to do all of it. just bring a clean cr to the floor. >> the house has now in fact voted on two piecemeal funding bills, voting to fund national parks and museums and to fund the national institutes of health, almost entirely long party lines with republicans voting to pass the measures in an obvious and latest stunt. senate majority leader harry reid indicates he will continue to reject it. senator, why don't you want the parks to be open? >> chris, i want all government to be opened. i'm concerned about the 124,000
marylanders who have been laid off that are federal workers. 800,000 around the nation. six months ago the democrats passed the budget in the united states senate. we asked the republicans to go to conference with us. they refused, they refused. we reached october one, the regular orders to pass the regulation to keep government functioning at its current level, the senate did that. and these reckless republicans have caused the government shutdown. >> let me tell you what republicans are thinking right now. i've been talking to a few of them. they think okay, now we're in the government shutdown and maybe the press won't be as bad as we thought it would be, but we're heading to this debt ceiling in a couple of weeks, and they really think the president will cave and you and your senate democratic colleagues will cave.
if they stay strong on this and start to ask for things, you are going to come to the bargaining table and hammer out a bill and you'll have a victory out of this, are they right? >> no, we're not going to negotiate with a gun at our heads, it just causes extortion, we want the legislative process. we want government open, we want all of government open. this is costing the taxpayers billions of dollars. it is hurting our economy and nation. people who rely upon services, you talked about head start. how about the services that are being provided in the research and national intelligence agencies that don't have their full compliments. it is ridiculous, pass the bill we sent. and the tragedy here is that if john boehner would put the senate resolution on the floor, we believe the votes are there to pass it. >> and if you're wrong about that, of course, he -- there is a very easy way to disprove that to show that you're wrong, which is to bring it up for a vote. >> absolutely, bring it up for a vote. let democracy prevail.
but quite frankly, the republicans are quite happy about the circumstances we're in, and they're trying to use extortion-like practices to get an agenda moving forward that should be done in legislative process. >> do you worry you're going to face back lash from your constituents given how many federal government employees there are in the state of maryland? >> you know, congress doesn't look good on this, it is a sad day for all of us. but i tell you, the federal workers don't want to go through another crisis in two weeks when they're told there is no more -- or they can't pay our bills. they don't want to go through another round of sequestration, they know we have to get it resolved. they want us to stand firm and not negotiate the way the republicans want us to. >> senator ben carter, and former senator who was in office during the last shutdown, and what we're hearing, senator greg, we're hearing that republicans think well, we're in this now and we have until the debt ceiling to extract confessions.
can they use the debt ceiling to no matter what on october 17th? >> well, i don't think you can use the debt ceiling, but it is a point of negotiation. clearly you can't default on the debt, that would be traumatic for the country, the economy would be affected by it. >> so if this is true, i have heard this response from other folks who say you can't default on it but it is a point of negotiation. but i don't understand, those two things don't follow -- >> well, they do follow, chris, if you follow the history of the elective government which we function under. the debt ceiling for years has been used as a point of negotiation. in fact, the president voted against it, and spoke rather aggressively for voting against a debt ceiling increase. this is not an unusual situation. >> in 2007 if nancy pelosi and half the democrats refused to vote for a debt ceiling increase unless the war in iraq was drawn to a close, would that have been
a responsible thing to do? >> that was not a hypothetical i was confronted with, chris, why don't you stick with history, history is the debt ceiling has always been used as a point of negotiation. by the way, chris, i never voted against the debt ceiling increase, i never voted against it whether it came with president clinton or bush or president obama. >> which strikes me as commendable and precisely the exact thing that everyone should do. particularly the majority party that knows the thing has to be passed, right? >> well, in the end it will be passed. it will be inexcusable were it not passed. but it is a point. our government is not functioning in regular order any longer and has not been for a long time. you know there was a reference
for a budget being passed. but the budget has not been passed the last four years, this is the first time one got out of both houses. the simple fact is our government now is functioning under this abberation where you have a system that forces action, the debt ceiling is the ultimate event that can't be used. i have said all along we shouldn't take a hostage you can't shoot as a party. and i've always said that. the debt ceiling falls in that category. but that doesn't mean there is not an opportunity to discuss what is causes the debt ceiling to go up. well, why do you have to increase the debt ceiling? the government is spending more money than it should, like a household that is spending more money than it should, sometime you are going to have to pay the piper for the actions. there is a reason to discuss the debt ceiling. >> thank you so much for joining me. >> thank you.
joining me, barney frank, senator, am i wrong in that that is absolutely the norm throughout the entire 20th and 21st century that nine years out of ten, probably, that has been the case about the federal government? >> well, a couple of things, first of all i think you make a very good friend. i sympathize with my friend, former senator greg. he is a responsible man, the last time we faced a crisis it was totally bipartisan. when the democrats were in control, it was 2008, george bush came to us, greg and i were two people that came across the divide to get things done. but when you put to him there is an inconsistency between acknowledging you have to use the debt, and it is an inconsistent tool. you're absolutely right. the last point about the debt it is true. we reached a point where we probably have more debt than it
is healthy. but i wanted to make a point, i didn't vote for the iraq war, i voted against it. i didn't vote for the george bush prescription drug program, again, hundreds of billions, i didn't vote for the very large tax cuts for the very wealthy, some of which we've undone, john boehner voted to incur more debt than i did. i want to point at the hypocrisy of some of the conservatives, if you vote for the war in iraq, i did vote for the war in afghanistan, but believe it is time to end that. this is much more at the feet of the conservatives unless they want to disclaim any responsibility for medicare. >> so here is my idea, i want to throw a demand in the mix, as someone who is a veteran legislator, i want your thoughts. my new demand, the president should say i'm not going to find anything unless he gets rid of the debt ceiling statutorily altogether. we had the cuban missile crisis,
and eventually somebody is going to push the button. >> i am not in favor of the president borrowing the republican tactics, i appreciate you using it in a good way, the republicans in the house have a right to try to repeal the health care bill that they didn't like. what you don't have a right to do is if you don't have the votes. if you didn't win as they didn't win in the 2012 election, they lost seats in the house, and lost the presidency, and lost seats in the senate. they can try to repeal it. but the way our constitution works, if a bill is law you only get to repeal it if you get the votes to repeal it. taking a hostage, these are the unarmed somali pirates of america. i don't want the president doing that either. let's give credit to a former leader dick gephardt, he had the rule to raise the debt ceiling. i want to go back and stress again, i don't want anybody who
voted for the war in iraq, the bush tax cuts, the agricultural subsidies, the bush prescription drug program. they are worth trillions of dollars on the debt. if every republican had voted the way i voted we wouldn't be anywhere near the debt limit we are right now. >> and thank you for your time tonight. all right, coming up. >> the best thing the senate could have done on the first cr, they could have stripped everything out and moved the spending level number higher and say that is what we're going to do. and this is our proposal, and then drop back down later and say we were here, now we're back to here. they haven't been negotiating at all. and so it is like why should we keep negotiating with ourselves? >> the republican congressman seems to think the democrats haven't done that, but they have. they have basically adopted the republican platform of 2012, seriously. i'll explain in just a minute. ♪
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cnbc's larry kudrow has strong feelings about the deficit, i have strong feelings about the deficit, we'll share our feelings next. in the nation, sometimes bad things happen. add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance and we'll replace stolen or destroyed items with brand-new versions. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ dad! dad! katy perry is coming to town. can we get tickets, tickets? hmm, sure. how many? well, there's hannah, maddie, jen, sara m., sara b., sa -- whoa, whoa. hold on. (under his breath) here it comes... we can't forget about your older sister! thank you, thank you, thank you! seriously? what? i get 2x the thankyou points on each ticket. can i come? yep. the citi thankyou preferred card. now earn 2x the points on entertainment and dining out, with no annual fee. to apply, go to citi.com/thankyoucards so i can't afford to have germy surfaces. but a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel leaves this surface cleaner than a germy dishcloth.
it's durable. and it's 3 times cleaner. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to bounty duratowel. we need to reopen the government, and the key to that still remains over in the house of representatives. it is a senate passed clean bill. >> open the government by putting a clean continuing resolution funding bill on the floor. >> there is a key central fact that underlies this entire gop-manufactured crisis, has to do with that phrase, the one you
just heard, has to do with the clean continuing resolution, the clean cr, continuing resolution that is not trying to de-fund obama care or delay its resolution, that is what the government is supposed to do. fund it for a period of time without any delayed nonsense, but the number attached to the clean cr, if you're going the fund the government how much should the government get? what is the budget, it is a budget bill. let's start out with what the obama administration asked for when they released their budget. 1 trillion, 203 billion, that was the obama target for the budget. by comparison, this was the 2011 compromise, a budget of 1 trillion 66 billion, and here was the budget put together by senate democrats, it is lower still. now let's look at the senate continuing resolution. that is the level of spending that democrats in the senate had voted for and are calling on the republicans to pass.
it is even lower. it is $986 billion. that, that you see, 986, that is the clean cr that democrats are asking the house republicans to accept. so we've come a long way, obviously, from the democratic preference of the obama budget or even the senate original budget. and then this, this is what that clean cr is shockingly close to, the 2014 ryan budget of $966 billion, the ryan budget. >> this year's ryan budget turns out looks like last year's ryan republican budget. i wasn't the only one that said gee whiz, not again. >> there are many reasons to oppose the ryan budget. paul ryan's budget is march madness. >> okay, the very thing that the president of the united states ran against when he won re-election, that is the ryan budget. so the spending level that
democrats have already agreed to, that they are begging republicans please to accept is essentially ryan budget spending level. and the reason the levels are so low is it actually uses existing sequestration as a base line, the democrats have not just compromised. they have adopted the central policy of their vanquished enemy. joining me now is layer kudlow, and larry, isn't it a good thing that the base line includes the sequestration spending level that everybody said was very, very low? >> i thought it was a good idea, i may not have agreed it was a perfect idea. but i will give the democrats and give mr. reid credit for holding down to that $986 billion. you're right, by the way, the original number was $967
billion. but the democrats are getting some religion on this spending issue. and i think as the government takes a smaller share of gdp, the private sector will produce more economic growth which is my real goal. >> do you think that the differences that we're talking about here are really going to have an impact in how much businesses are spending? >> well, i think over a period of time the answer is yes. i mean, look, a lot of people make the argument, it may not be a perfect argument, but when the businesses look at large deficits, they know at some point they are going to be taxed to pay for it. and so they hold back. one of the weakest parts of this weak recovery is business and investment spending, which regrettably is the greatest job producer we still have. it is really still below its peak in 2007. why is that? i don't know everything about it. but i think fear of tax increases. fear of regulatory increases, and yes, the unknown of obama care has held business back, it has held hiring back. >> you know, there has been a lot of talk on the right and from observers -- i see you talk
about this uncertainty. precisely the point you made about uncertainty about future and the obama care and uncertainty about taxes, the uncertainty is the thing that is keeping money on the sidelines. but if that is the case, isn't that the worst thing you can possibly do, arrange for a series of occurring crisis, if you believe in uncertainty as the republicans say they do, isn't this the worst way to get government and get business money back into the economy? >> yeah, look, i'm not thrilled at what is going on here. i don't like continuing resolutions. i worked in ronald reagan's budget office, i'm familiar with this thing. no, i don't like cr's, i never have. i think judge greg put right, there are options, this is very sub-on otimal. >> if we're looking at creeping at the october 17th deadline, do you anticipate business leaders, major banks can financial
industry having a kind of come to jesus moment with john boehner and ted cruz about the importance of raising the debt ceiling for the stability it needs to provide for the global economy? >> well, i just don't want to put mr. cruz and mr. boehner in the same boat on this point. but i will say this. business leaders are worried. look, they're at the white house today, had a lot of financial leaders, lloyd blankfine of goldman sachs was very strong on this. sure, they don't want to risk any problem with the debt ceiling, they don't want to risk the obligation for american citizens, so yeah, nobody wants this. at the same time, i believe there is no free lunch. and having gone through these
things way back in the 1980s, it is not unusual for debt ceiling debates to be accompanied by spending debates. it is just not unusual, greg made the same point to you a few moments ago. >> in some place, it is usually reversed, there is a budget increase and a deal hammered out and the debt ceiling gets worked into. >> no, i agree with that. you're exactly right, what is missing here -- sort of break the novel that since i'm a growth guy, look, i'm a reagan supply side. what i want to see is the series of tax reform, pro growth tax reform bills which can be revenue neutral, particularly business tax reform. okay, that is what is missing. and that would give this economy some torque. mr. obama sometimes plays lip service to it, i hope he is serious, and the economy needs to grow much, much faster. >> you and i are on the same page. we'll be right back with click three. list, i save time, money, and i avoid frustration. you'll find reviews on home repair to healthcare,
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coming up, have you ever seen these charts in a doctor's office? we saw this one, i'll explain next. first, i want to hear the three awesomest things on the internet today, we begin with the popular culture of coming to grips with the government shutdown, a nation turned its lonely eyes to the internet, britney spears tweeted, go call the police, the governor, somebody tell congress to get to
work. it is a promotion for her newest and barely noted single. and ryan gosling, this exchange here on the shutdown, they went with mean girls shutdown character. conan o'brien used the occasion to furlough his own staff. >> what are your duties? >> my duties are to help you and assist you in your life. >> seriously. to assist me in my life? >> in your work and personal life. >> would you say that you are essential personnel? >> no, i wouldn't say that. >> my favorite reaction, the wu-tang clan, answers two questions, wait, they're on twitter? and the frontrunner to be the
next mayor of new york is still in the process, introducing himself to voters. so it was interesting to find bill de blasio's wedding picture on the internet, it featured at the trappings of the wedding, this one including a toast, the sharing of the wedding cake between bride and groom. and well, yeah, whatever this is. it is not exactly break dancing and not crumping, but it makes a heck of a gift. de blasio should not worry, he is not the worst dancer to hold the office. isn't that right, disco rudy, this headline, jeopardy penalized, does not properly sum up the amount of fail in this clip, with the category of characters from classic tv shows. >> seinfeld, julie-louis dreyfuss. >> no.
we'll accept that. >> yeah. >> it is elaine, not elaine. >> let your head spin over that one for a second, here, we'll play it again. >> okay, it is elaine, not elaine. >> so i see, elaine, not elaine. we all want to know who the judge was that made such a terrible call. >> presents an interesting dilemma. >> i should have known, boy, it is sad to see what has become of a great institution like "jeopardy." i wonder if there is a book out there on the subject, you can find more on allin@ chrishayes.com. i love to eat. i love hanging out with my friends. i have a great fit with my dentures. i love kiwis. i've always had that issue with the seeds getting under my denture. super poligrip free -- it creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth. even well-fitting dentures let in food particles. super poligrip is zinc free.
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sort of stands out, comes from dana perino, you may remember her in the final years of the bush administration. last night, perino stepped in it, which happens from time to time, on the affordable care act, offering it in other languages is absurd, if someone can't fill out the form, what will they explain to doctors? the gobsmack responses came out, one said, so english should be a prerequisite, for getting hospital care? perino tweeted back, i'll accept their lectures on compassion, the haters. >> wait, what, haters? we looked into what she was referring to. it is a great thing, in august, she was on board with mercy ships which runs floating
hospitals in africa that perform surgeries and offer treatment to hundreds of thousands of people that can't afford it. and people getting health care that couldn't afford it is a great thing. perino tweeted throughout her trip, putting up pictures of kids with cleft lips, and posing with pictures of people who needed medical care. then they used this to describe the medical pain, you have probably seen this sign in every hospital you have been to. the reason they have smiley faces is so people can communicate across medical barriers, which is precisely why the obama care would be available in multiple languages, to be clear, the health care is
limited in its languages, the department of human health and services is offering a call center that can answer the obama care questions in multiple languages, some that is reasonable, if you consider in new york city there are 138 languages spoken in queens alone. now perino is not alone, this kind of jingo is standard fare on fox. >> if you want to make a phone call. >> we can test it out, and ask if they can answer our questions in -- >> how about english? >> how about english? dana perino should know better, creating a scaffold for something like obama care, provides a valuable service, the ones who had to go out and find a speaker who could help a woman from philippines, actually get health care maybe for the first time. those people who are doing this work, the hard work of trying to make health care available to as many as people as possible, they have had their pay frozen for three years, and now they're being furloughed. this is what gets lost in the overall conservative reaction to
the obama care glitches as they perversely delight in people having trouble finding health care. they are trying to make it accessible for people, even ones who don't speak english. and making government work well should not be simply the domain of one political party in the spectrum, you were there, dana perino, you should know better. ♪ 'take me home...' ♪ 'i'll be gone...' ♪ 'in a day or...' man: twooooooooooooooooo! is that me, was i singing? vo: not paying for scheduled maintenance feels pretty good. no-charge scheduled maintenance now on every new volkswagen. that's the power of german engineering could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. mmmhmmm...everybody knows that. well, did you know that old macdonald
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of them. gut a major part of obama care. what they may not understand is the other demand, which is basically a right wing e-mail come to life. have you heard the one about how congress is exempt from obama care? >> the president's health care law is supposed to apply to everybody, but now the office of personnel and management will receive extra budgets that nobody else gets. >> you get a special subsidy in congress, why do you think you're above the american people? >> why are the members of congress exempt from the pain of obama care? >> why are they carving out exemptions that don't make sense in the law, and only make staff available for it. >> everybody should be forced to be under that system. >> republicans are working overtime trying to make this particular lie stick. why? because to tell the truth would mean admitting this was
something republicans accidentally set in motion in the first place. you see, four years ago, senator chuck grass decided to pull a opportunity to derail health care reform, he said congress should be treated like the rest of the country when it comes to health care. and so he inserted a provision that required all members of congress and their staff to give up their existing employer-provided health insurance and sign up for the new exchanges. it was a silly stunt, so now, the federal health insurance contribution to their employees on the congressional payroll would now have to end. but here is the problem. while most house lawmakers earn nearly $175,000 a year, the majority of the folks who work for them earn only between 30 and $60,000 a year. yet their bosses voted to embrace this thing, which everyone recognized as something terrible, and that includes house speaker john boehner.
but you wouldn't know it this week, would you? >> why don't they make sure that every american is treated just like we are? >> publicly, boehner has been defending this provision privately, behind the scenes with other lawmakers he had had been trying to kill it. we know it, because harry reid called him out on it this week, that showed john boehner trying to protect the same congressional health care advantages to staffers he is ripping on the floor. a good boss has to look out for his employees, but boehner had to decide between being a good boss and doing the right thing, and doing what it means to keep the lie going. which is why at the 11th hour on monday, john boehner and the house republicans tried to push through a provision forcing their staff to pay hundreds of dollars a month more for health care.
sorry about that, guys, something that started as a stunt to fire up the base was actually turned into a policy that congressional republicans used to push the government into shutdown. this is what you get when you try to govern from stunt to stunt. >> will be joined by a panel to discuss the ridiculous republican stunts in just a minute. we'll be right back. but after one day's use, dishcloths can redeposit millions of germs. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel. look! a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel leaves this surface cleaner than a germy dishcloth, as this black light reveals. it's durable, cloth-like and it's 3 times cleaner. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to bounty duratowel. the durable, cloth-like picker-upper. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to bounty duratowel. customer erin swenson ordebut they didn't fit.line customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy.
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we allow you if you choose to, you don't have to, but we give you broader competition to allow you to buy into the same health care plan that senators and congressmen give themselves. if it is good enough for us, it is good enough for every american. i believe that your health care is just as important as any politician in washington, d.c. >> that is john kerry back in
2004, running for president, proving this talking point about comparing america's health care that the health care that has been with america's congress for a while. joining me now, correspondent and fill-in host for america's wonderful marketplace of program. jacob hacker who worked on the affordable care act, this is darrell issa today. we need to replace obama care, but how can we make sure that all americans have access to health care without breaking the bank. idea, we can give all americans access to the health insurance that all members of congress have, we should give everybody the access to the health care, don't you think? >> well, i'm glad that republicans are figuring out they're supportive of obama care.
it is a remarkable development. if you look back to when this debate began, when chuck grassley pushed this point, it was really seen as a way to derail obama care, now it is seen as a way to derail obama care but has real consequences, what people should understand is the federal health employees benefit plan was a key model for health care. >> we're not dealing with something that is so -- the way that federal employees get their health care is actually pretty similar to this exchange-based model. >> right, it is very similar to the exchange-based model. and actually it is a model not just federal employees but a lot of companies use and are starting to use, as well, where they say we'll give you a set amount of money and you can go shopping and pick what is right for you. yes, i think i watch people like you have a moment of glee that darrell issa says that. but i know you're going to get mad at me saying this, we still
have to watch this whole thing and see if it actually works or if it works. >> you're saying affordable care act? >> yeah. >> i agree, i'm a part of -- i was going back and forth with a conservative friend of mine, precisely, saying let's run the experiment. if this is a disaster, if it is bad, then democrats should pay a huge political price for it. because they passed this bill. and if it doesn't work, yes, then right. >> this is the kind of posturing, when i first saw it, it reminded me of congressman howard smith with the 1964 civil rights act where he injected the language of sex so there could be no discrimination along the signs of race, this is what this bill is about. he injects the language of sex, people think it is a liberal gesture, others believed it was a gesture to tank it as it turned out to make it much more popular. what if people in congress said this is working out pretty well for me? >> that is the other perspective, what i call social distance, the members of congress have to deal with the thing they're implementing, right?
it makes a lot of sense, but we should keep in mind for congressional staffers this would be a serious cost for them. and this is not to -- the affordable care act offers subsidies for people who don't have health insurance through their employer. but people like the congressional staffers, through their employer, they can actually go through these exchanges. but the administration base says if federal employees are going to go in, if staffers are going to go in they have to get the support they used to get. so i think it is really worth understanding that this is really a bad thing. >> they're voting for a pay cut. >> your boss voting for a pay cut for you, that is what is happening. i'm your boss. >> the discrepancy between what a member makes and -- >> for a great majority of these people, what a member makes is not the main source of their wealth, in fact, half of them are millionaires. >> if it is being put in the perspective of a free-lance grapher designer, technically they're right, the state of affairs. >> let's just be clear about this, these all are essentially futile efforts to try to head off this bill.
and what the republicans are doing in a sense is drawing all the attention away from the early launch. from the affordable care act. actually not sure that a is a bad thing for the administration. this is a very extreme position, and we're going to face it again on the debt ceiling, and i don't think we should forget this, the real consequences for the economy. and $1.2 billion is being pulled out of the economy each week. >> in terms of cost? >> yeah. >> and a fascinating thing happened to me in the last 36 hours. the story as we headed for the political shutdown, the story was, the republicans are fighting with each other. i couldn't believe the quotes, first it was anonymous aides, then people saying ted cruz is a maniac, and they're all at each other's throats, the strategy has been chosen, who do we have to do -- nunez, did he say this? here is karl rove, warning republicans away from the strategy, and then here he is after the strategy is in
pursuit, take a listen. >> we wouldn't be able to pay for anybody in government, congress provided no funding for any part of the government and everybody will be shut down. i don't understand why the house didn't take what the house offered last night. this is going to make the democrats look out of touch and ugly. >> here is the logic of this, being described by ralph nunez on supporting gop leadership. now that we've made the jump and lit ourselves on fire, we have to stay together, right? >> they lit themselves on fire and are falling into the american economy. grover norquist said that cruz had asked the house republicans
to wander into traffic and abandoned them. i mean, when grover norquist thinks it is an extreme move, that is pretty revealing. >> like i was not hearing those kind of quotes today. the grover norquist stood out. this was the political story. >> on the other hand, you get nothing if you're fragmented. you get nothing if you're turning on each other. if you're turning on each other, that generates stories that are all about that. if you stand together, it generates stories about harry reid and world war ii veterans. >> right. >> and you -- >> if you kick the shiny soccer ball it generates stories about that. he have you go and pull up stunts like pulling out a check
to pay for the security guards at the world war ii memorial. >> once upon a time, the party leadership was actually the group people had to conform to. where it is going in the exact opposite direction now, so people can form into a minority of the republican party. but there is unity, sure, but unity in marching in the wrong direction. >> here is the trouble with unity, lizzie, you covered capitol hill and the financial markets, if they're getting more unified they're getting more unified in the run-up to the debt ceiling fight. >> and that is what worries me and has me jittery. i don't like that idea going toward october at this point. and your viewers should know, we have already hit the debt ceil