tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC October 11, 2013 7:00pm-8:00pm EDT
personal. because if wean get by our personal hangups, if we can get by society rejections, we can change to make the country what it should be. and we can make ourselves the ultimate best of what we intended and wanted to be. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. the last gasp of ted cruz. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews. let me start with the strangeness of ted cruz. pounded with the news in the gallup his negatives have doubled, he now called the wall street journal poll invalid.
say he said the news is not the news. the poll results are just what, quote, an awful lot of obama supporters have to say. listen to this. >> if you seek out liberal obama supporters and ask their views, they're going to tell you they're liberal obama supporters. that does not reflect where the american public are. >> i award the first-ever karl rove award. people with facts the loss of political innocence simply deny the facts as presented. rove did it to his own election analysis team at fox. cruz is now doing it to the wall street journal and nbc. it's called blaming the messenger. meanwhile, back in the real world, the president must decide how to deal with the changing republican positions. if they offer a clean six week debt extension bill but refuse to reopen the government, does he sign it? if they do both, does he sign it? even though it brings the ransom
problem back before thanksgiving. and what if the house republicans decide to extend the debt limit, reopen the government, but add a provision requiring some debt reduction. the whole idea of a six week extension to simply create more time for republicans to pressure obama to break. i, of course, if i were the president play hardball. david corn and jonathan capehart, both msnbc contributors. i guess the question -- i want to start with the president's situation. david, i'm really curious what you think. of all the options, a clean cr, a clean debt extension, would he go with that if it's only six weeks or does that say we're kicking the can down to the next block some time before thanksgiving? >> well, i think he certainly would sign the bill if they do that. jay carney just came out of the white house not too long ago and basically gave the republicans no corner. they said again and again we
will not negotiate on the threat of the shutdown. bringing us to the middle of thanksgiving, it won't work as well. he was very firm. the president did talk to john boehner this afternoon. we didn't know exactly what occurred in that conversation. finally boehner got the conversation he wanted. but the president's holding firm that he will not be extorted. now at the end of the day to prevent default, he might give in on something. >> but does -- let's go back -- but here's the -- >> i'm not sure he's there yet. >> here's the tough one. if he signs the six-week, isn't he agreeing to this drum roll and another deadline and another drum roll and another deadline and the threat of more pressure on him to give in to something? >> he may be. but if he's not giving up anything in response to that, just saying these guys need another six weeks to get their act together. and see the numbers plummet more
in a wall street journal poll, that's the best we can do now. i'll take that. >> jonathan, how will people read on obama agreement to a six-week agreement which means we're right back at this in six weeks? >> well, i mean, it depends. as david just laid out, it depends on whether there are conditions attached to that bill that the president would sign. he's been clear he wants a clean continuing resolution, a clean debt ceiling bill. and the president had said at least up until today that, you know, if it was a short-term deal meaning it was undefined, that he would sign it. you know, i think the american people are tired, certainly the president is tired of lurching from crisis to crisis. but when you're smacked up against both a government shutdown and potentially defaulting for the first time in the history of the united states, if you're the president and you're presented a clean debt ceiling bill and a clean continuing resolution to reopen
the government, you'd be hard pressed not to sign it. >> okay. you mean you want both. >> sure. >> reopen the government is a minimal condition for the president. reopen the government and continue the extending debt ceiling another six weeks. okay. by the way, going back to david on this. same question. are you assuming he has to get both or could he agree to just the extension but leave the government shutdown. i'm serious. this is a tough question for him. >> if he gets anything clean, it buys time. he will sign it, he can still say this is mickey mouse. i'm only doing this to prevent a default. the republicans have to get their act together and deal long-term and get the government back open. but to prevent a default, he will sign a clean bill without conditions. >> let me give an alternative opinion. this based on the fact the republicans are on a run now. it won't ever be as good as it is now for him to pound these guys and put them up against the
wall. this is the nbc/wall street journal poll that cruz is trying to deny. it shows the public have delivered a rebuke of the republican party's hostage taking strategy on the debt limit and the government shutdown. we brought you those results last night and today they are spread all around capitol hill like wildfire. here they are again. this is why i think he needs to press now. and don't deal with the short-term. the blame for this shutdown falled squarely on the republican party and not the president, by a huge margin. 22%. the republican party favorable falls to an all time low. president obama is in a relatively good position. and look at this. the popularity of the health care law has increased by seven points. the pollsters behind this survey both called the results jaw dropping. back to you, david. given the fact he has the best
numbers he's ever had, the opponent bs have the weakest numbers they've had. isn't this the time to say you've got five days. reopen the government, stop pussyfooting around, stop the mickey mouse and do it. by the way, extend the debt ceiling. do it now. >> the leverage he has today is indeed high and great. as you get towards midnight on the 17th, it will go down. i believe he'll keep pounding them. as i said, carney came out today and didn't really change the president's firm position. there are conversations going on. maybe there's some give there, but we don't know. i think he'll keep pounding the republicans. but i think at the end of the day, if the best they give him is the temporary extension, he will not let the nation default. but i think until that point, he will keep pressing for more and use his political leverage that he seems to have amassed. >> jonathan, can you cure an addict by giving him another
fix? >> no. but here's the thing. and i want to expand on something that david just said. he's right. the president has it as good as he's going to get right now with these poll numbers. but let's say, you know, a week from today we are staring at the destruction at the full faith and credit of the united states. those numbers, the president's advantage will disappear exponentially as the days go on. in times of crisis, the american people are not going to be looking at speaker john boehner or senate majority leader harry reid or nancy pelosi or mitch mcconnell in the senate. they're going to be looking to the president of the united states to solve the problem, to fix the emergency. and so that's why, you know, i think the next six days are going to be critical for the white house. >> well, some republicans on capitol hill saw the writing on the wall including john mccain who reacted to the poll on fox yesterday. today. here he is. >> look at the wall street
journal poll. wall street journal is not a liberal organization. look at the poll this morning. 24% of the american people approve of republicans. that's an all-time low. we better wake up. we're in serious situation right here, and we better wake up and we better try to come to an agreement salvaging something out of this. >> david, it seems to me we're reaching -- again, i know we're pounding away at this. but a situation where john mccain has come out and said cruz you're out to lunch. these polls are real. stop blaming the ref. and you're beginning to look ridiculous. the poll is probably the most respected poll in the country. it's always been where it is. and it gives information to both parties. there's mccain saying yes. yes. >> you know, nobody not even john mccain is going to convince ted cruz or the 30 or 40 members of the kamikaze club in the tea
party house of representatives that they're wrong and they should change course. that's not going to happen. what can happen is because of poll results like this, other members of the party whether it's john mccain, whether it's peter king in the house, put enough pressure on boehner and even on mcconnell to fix this thing before the republican brand gets even more tarnished. that's where the action is. you're never going to get the people who came to town to destroy government to feel bad about destroying government. it hurts him as well. >> with the help of television help you make your point. in addition to cruz, other tea party republicans continue to operate in their chamber. they don't seem to care the country is suffering. here's a representative from louisiana. he said quote, we knew going into this we would get most of the blame. we get most of the blame anyway, that shouldn't keep us from
doing the right thing. he's not alone. with breitbart news, rand paul said, i think it's untenable position to take to say he won't negotiation. to throw a temper tantrum and say i won't give up anything i want. what's he trying to present here? the notion of the president being a spoiled child that doesn't want to negotiate? the only thing they want to negotiate is how to dismember the child that this president created obama care, health care. we'll give you a tax increase and we want entitlement reform. the soviet union used to do that. that was an old game we all laughed at. here are the guys coming on who are anti-communists. but they're saying whatst ours is ours, the tax levels. and what's yours is negotiable.
>> republicans in congress don't want to recognize the fact that one of the reasons why we're in this situation is because the president from the first term always tried to meet republicans halfway. sometimes more than halfway. sometimes giving them the concessions they wanted before they actually started negotiating. now, though, having learned his lessons particularly from the 2011 debt ceiling crisis, the president decided not doing this anymore. not going the to do it. and after presenting a budget that puts entitlement cults on the table, the president says i've conceded enough. you're going to have to meet me halfway now and the republicans can't take it. they thought president obama would cave or concede in the way he had before, and he hasn't. >> why don't we go halfway with
the birthers and say i wasn't born in kenya, i was born in nigeria. at some point you say this is an attack personally on me. by the way, it's obama. that part of it they hate the most. the obama, not the care. thank you. coming up, republicans are happy to embrace tea party when it made them the majority, but now many fear the sezealots are bringing them down. and ted cruz told the values voters summit today he's not giving up. and all over washington democrats are enjoying the fact. and the crushing nbc news/wall street journal poll, how republicans are l try to get back on their feet and how democrats plan to keep their foot on the republican throat. let me finish tonight with the fond memory of better times, and they were. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ banker ] sydney d some financial guidance so she could take her dream to the next level.
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welcome back to "hardball." if there's one thing -- by shutting down the government, it's this. he has succeeded in dividing the republican party. the critics from his own party keep piling on now. king says cruz's tactics have had the opposite of their intended effect. >> no one has done more to strengthen obama care than ted cruz. since he started this crusade of his, the fact is over the last
ten days support for obama care has gone up 7% in the country. not because obama care is working, not because it's played out well at all, but because he has given such a bad image to the anti-obama care forces. so president obama and the supporters of obama care should thank ted cruz because he is their biggest ally right now. >> conservative columnist charles krauthammer says he wasn't ready for the ride the took people on. >> how exactly was he going to achieve abolition of obama care? explain that to the me. has he efr explained it? and where is he now? are the generals? what's their strategy to get abolition of obama care? >> and haley barbour said of cruz's attempt to stop the health care law, quote, it never had a chance. and he's a smart fellow. eugene robinson is a columnist for the "washington post" and
msnbc analyst. tim saltz worked for mike huckabee back in 2008. what's happening to your party in light of the cruz mission which was to go after obama care, if you will, a phrase he doesn't mind using. i prefer affordable care act. it's an act of law. and tying it to the debt ceiling, tying it to the government shutdown. was that a smart strategy politically and what has it done? has it detonated your party? >> i like senator cruz, but i agree with some of the previous ones. he never had a game plan to win. he picked a fight. i also have a strategy to win them once i pick them. he's started this hornet's nest and left my friends in the house holding the bag. because there was no path to victory on this. instead of letting obama care fall under its own weight which is what a lot of republicans thought would happen, he's picked the fight. he's become the bad guy, and now it's become personal and that's hurt our party a bit.
>> let me ask gene about this. analytically, can you decipher whether cruz is a smart guy -- at least academically. he did pull an upset in texas. did he think obama was weak in the knees and if he pushed hard, obama would give a piece of obama care back? or did he want something that would all explode and everybody would be jumping around like it has happened? what was he planning? >> i have no idea. look, i think people are starting to wonder, you know, number one, did they ov overestimate? he seems like a really clever guy, but this never made sense. this never made one iota of sense that president obama would voluntarily renounce his biggest legislative accomplishment. it was never going to happen.
>> let's figure why he made the mistake. it's smart to learn. i'm going to go back to chip on this question. you know, back in the '60 campaign nixon thought he could carry the south because all the business guys out there, business guys with some money in their pockets were all downtown atlanta that day. and he got the idea because they're applauding him, i'm going to carry georgia. i'm going to break this solid south. he didn't. he was misled by leading indicators. was cruz overwhelmed by all the applause meters at all those right wing events and town hall meetings thinking that echo chamber was the congress? it was the world? is that what happened to him? >> maybe visions of '16 kind of blinded him. like how does he win before '14 and especially this with obama care. when you're trying to figure what was going to be a win, i think at that point they felt like getting it delayed for a year, defunding it. using that as a way to delay it
for a year to negotiate things out might be a win. but i think he overplayed that hand a bit. i have great respect for senator cruz. i don't think they thought it through to say, okay, this is not just one senator that can stop this. it's two chambers. the democrats control the senate. the democrats control the white house. >> i think they're afraid of him, afraid to tell him he's wrong. i've never seen a guy so brilliantly good at pointing the finger. so nobody stood up to him in this whole buildup to this fight. >> well, you know, the senate didn't used to be that way, right? >> a kid coming in first term couldn't make this much noise. maybe it had something to do with the fact that mitch mcconnell, the minority leader in the senate who keeps discipline normally is looking over his shoulder at a tea party challenge and perhaps felt that he couldn't tell senator cruz, look, this is not going to work.
and this is not the way we're going to do it. but, you know, i wonder how long people are going to be saying what chip just said. i respect senator cruz. i think he has lost a lot of respect. he certainly lost a lot of friendship and potential allies on the hill. i don't know how much that means to him, but this has not been a good week for him. >> let's take a look at this. he told "the new york times" ted cruz is making life difficult for potential republican presidential candidates in 2016. quote, cruz is trying to start a wave of salem witch trials in the gop on the shutdown and obama care. and that fear is impacting on some people's calculations on 2016. is one of your motives fear? is this the kind of guy over in old iraq, you don't want to get eye contact with this guy in a restaurant, you know? is that it? >> the reason i like him and the
reason i respect him is he's not afraid to stand up for what he believes even if he's one of a hundred. i like that. but when you pick a fight even if you're one out of a hundred, you better have the ability to say this is a win. if it was delay obama care, that was a win. if it was to get the budget numbers back to $189 billion, that's a win. but when he was in the senate conference, a couple day laters a senator stood up and said how do we get out of this mess? how do we get out of here? he didn't have an answer. >> so not only did he not have a way to win, he didn't have a window to climb out of to get away from it. right? there was no exit here. >> and that's important in politics. i think as you were talking about '16, we're going to have to elect and nominate somebody. if it was hillary clinton, somebody formidable, but somebody who has a record of getting things done. and all of a sudden getting things done is a bad thing, that's not good for the party long-term. >> did you notice how good rand
paul was? i look at this from left and right, look how successful his filibuster -- real filibuster was against drones and use of drones. they cheered that across the political spectrum. where cruz comes with a faux or imitation filibuster which nobody gave credit to. is this a difference in ability? i get the feeling that rand paul has political ability for the big show, the presidency, that this guy doesn't have. >> i know rand a lot better than senator cruz. i worked with him before. he's very smart. he gets the entire spectrum of conservative liberal moderates. and he understands the success of a win. and he was able to find what a win would be. and he was able to accomplish that and especially at the media level but also the grassroots level. >> gene, last word. does this help rand paul? i think it does. puts him more in the middle. >> yeah, i think it helps him a lot today at the value voters
summit. he was talking about foreign policies, trying to establish his credibility in that sphere. i think he's looking better to that segment of the party. >> okay. thanks so much eugene robinson and chip saltsman. coming up next, i was the guest on the tonight show. there i am. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ susan ] ...as though he had never left. the end. lovely read susan. but isn't it time to turn the page on your cup of joe?
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of congress. which is weird because they're not that different from each other. i mean, not -- take a look. first we have zombies with creepy discolored skin. while congress has john boehner. very orange-like skin. here are zombies, do a lot of moaning. congress does a lot of postponing. and last, zombies will destroy civilization as we know it. congress, give it a few more days. there you go. >> well, i was on the tonight show last night to talk about my new book "tip and the gipper." and we discussed the sorry state in washington these days. >> do you think obama and boehner, do they hate each other? like each other? >> i don't think they have the relationship. what the president does is strange. if you were president of the united states, wouldn't you invite people over and work them? that's what reagan did. he had parties for tip o'neill. he had birthday parties at the white house. he had tip to his birthday party.
they had st. patricks day parties every year. what was the favorite picture last year in the campaign? that people liked? it was chris christie on the beach with obama. and everybody in the country said that's what government is. when you work together across party lines for something really important. when sandy hit. and they just wanted their parents to get along. that's really what it comes down to. you know? >> i agree. >> tonight i'll be on hbo's "realtime with bill maher." next, senator rand paul had some product placement in his remarks this morning at the value voters summit in d.c. in a joke the senator said he drives a toyota prius, a car by the right wing saying it's a liberal mobile. >> and i am in a toyota prius. i don't know if i can take all the supporters with me, but if you need a ride back, we will take you along. >> as it the urns out paul does
drive a prius and he should be plugging toyota. it's the biggest employer in his state of kentucky. and last month the senator even visited toyota's north american headquarters which is based in erlanger, tennessee. and there's more here than meets the eye. could rand be trying to make the prius cool? considering the cross branding going on here, here's our idea of what rand paul's campaign ads might look like. you can call this a cross-promotional parody. ♪ ♪ this is the car that loves to have fun ♪ ♪ the car hybrid ♪ once upon the time it was the only one ♪ ♪ let's hum hum hum ♪ let's hum ♪ a prius for everyone >> i'm rand paul and i approved
this message. up next, ted cruz says he's not giving up and that's just fine for democrats. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up
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ma'am, thank you for being here. i wish you would participate in the democratic process through speaking respectfully. it seems that president obama's paid political operatives are out in force today. and you know why? and you know why? because the men and women in this room scare the living daylights out of him. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was senator ted cruz this morning at the values voters summit in d.c. where he was heckled repeatedly by protesters. cruz fired up a -- he told the adoring audience who praised him with shouts of prayers to keep fighting obama care. and his best friend in the senate mike lee of utah was cruz's warm-up guy. >> the very best argument
against obama care is the president's conduct during the first ten days of this shutdown. i mean, look what's happened. the president is using the vast, immense power of the federal government to hurt the american people. why? in order to win a political argument. what happens then when we turn over some of the most private, intimate decisions in our lives, our health care system to the government. when will that be used as a tool against us? we must stop it. we must defund it. we cannot accept it. >> the family research council president who hosted the summit called cruz and his band of brothers in the senate the de facto leaders of conservatives and of the republican party. joining me now is joy reid and magg maggie haberman. how do you say he's the fire brand for the right and i've heard this from people like james carville, you want to rile up an audience in the south,
he's your man. he'll rile them up. and of course, nationally looking at the statistics, he's doubled his negatives in a brief time. doubling down and disliking the guy as soon as they know him. is he a winner or loser inside the republican party? >> i think you have to look at ted cruz as a rise of a tide we're seeing of lawmakers in washington who are running on their own brand. and he is not worried so much about the national party brand. his own, personal brand in his home state is pretty strong. his own personal brand among grassroots activists in the party is strong. what it has done to the national brand has not been positive. i don't think it's particularly of his concern. so i think for what he is worried about which i think is largely about his own image, i think that is going positively. he campaigned in terms of running on defunding obama care, getting rid of obama care. he would say that's what he's doing. however, to your point, his
negatives are incredibly high. he is already emerging as a polarizing figure nationally. if he is interested in running, this will come back in a big way. >> joy, who's the democrats' ted cruz? >> that is a really good question. i don't think that the democrats have that same kind of, i want to say authoritarian impulse to follow somebody with that kind of fervor. i think you'd have to find his equivalent almost in media, not even in politics. he's sort of a father coughlin figure. he reminds me of palin. >> who's a democrat that has that kind of heat? >> i can't think of any democrat, to be honest with you, that has that kind of fervor behind him. what's driving it is a sense of alienation. i don't think democrats feel alienated not just from the political leaders but from the
society itself. and he's driving a group of people who feel alienated from the larger society, and he's telling them i'm your guy. you're right. i don't care who tells you you're wrong. i'm your guy and you are right. and there's nothing more seductive than someone telling you you're right. >> you know, maggie, covering this as an objective reporter and looking at it, there is a real difference in the parties. for years the thought the democrats had gotten cleaned up in their tactics. they don't cheat as much with dirty tactics. they've gotten much nicer. that's hurt them, maybe, but they've gotten nicer. they've lost some of the zealotry. i have to say the republican party, it seems like it's driven by hatred right now. hatred of obama. and anything with his name on it. and this guy cruz drums it up really well. he speaks like a spear against the president.
i am the hatred of obama in my very flesh. look at me. this is hatred of obama. that's why i think they cheer him like mad. is that a fair assessment or too hard? >> i think the irony of what you're saying in the cruz phenomenon is obama care is what got us here. and obama care was not uniformly popular among democrats as you know. democrats have been, i think to your point, very united right now against what is happening, against republicans on the hill. and they are very much behind the president. i know a lot of democrats are feeling very angry on the president's behalf feel happy. >> do they hate like republicans these days? i don't think they do. >> i think you are hearing different sets of language. that's to your point. i think that joy's point about how ted cruz has his roots in sarah palin activism and you saw this in the pre-2012 campaign with donald trump. i think it is that same level of we are going to take the fight to obama. it is different. >> i predict next year's election when it begins, the
presidential campaign will begin right after the congressional. it's going to be about the republicans building their case against hillary clinton, benghazi. that's what the campaign is -- a negative campaign against her. her heroically trying to present a positive message from the center. what do you think? >> i agree. what they're going to frame it as is hillary clinton taking the baton from degradation of barack obama. they have made the person of him the symbol of what they believe is america. and they're just going to say he's passed the baton to her. and she, too -- because, listen. i think the women's liberations movements are just as toxic and the visceral rage of people as were those civil rights laws, as were bussing, as were the social changes like affirmative action. as were initially medicare. but now they are on medicare so they're not against that anymore. but the idea of this universal
health care is another slide in their mind towards the horrible society and they'll say she's part of it too. >> it wouldn't have happened if they won the civil war too. anyway, thank you. a lot of changes we haven't liked. thank you for coming on. have a nice weekend, both of you. up next, shutdown strategy. how republicans will try to get back in the game, if you will, after the devastating new polls by nbc and the wall street journal and how democrats will keep the pressure on if they're smart and tough enough. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. have sinus p, you feel...congested. beat down. crushed. but sudafed gives you maximum strength sinus pressure and pain relief. so you feel free. powerful sinus relief. sudafed. open up.
we've heard plenty of curious things from texas congressman louie gohmert over the years. here he is at the conservative values voters summit late today going over fellow republican john mccain. >> i heard just before i came some senator from arizona, a guy that like ed gadhafi before he wanted to bomb him, a guy that's been to syria and supported al qaeda and rebels, but he was saying today the shutdown has been a fool's errand. and i agree with him. the president and harry reid should not have shut this government down. >> well, he just said mccain is
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using forty percent less energy. multiply that across over a thousand locations, and they'll provide the same benefit to the environment as over 60,000 trees. that's a trend we can all get behind. we're back. if anything should act as a wakeup call for the republican party, it's yesterday's nbc news/wall street journal poll. it shows a party sinking like a rock, losing the trust of the american people thanks to the shutdown. as we mentioned earlier tonight, here are so m of the findings in the poll. only 24% of americans have a positive view of the republican party. meanwhile in leadership, 70% say republicans in congress are putting their own political agenda ahead of what's good for the country. and republicans take a majority of the blame for the government
shutdown. 53% versus just 31% who blame the president. just how bad are those numbers? peter hart who conducted the survey with republican pollster said quote, if it were not so bad for the country, the result almost make a democrat smile. these numbers lead to one conclusion. republicans are not tone deaf. they are stone deaf. republicans now have to dig themselves out of this hole while democrats will try to bury them deeper. joining me now is tom davis, a former republican congressman from virginia and margie, a democratic pollster. what did you make of ted cruz coming out today and saying the poll wasn't any good? >> well, t just nonsense. but you have the look at who he's talking to. these people needed something and you could see from some of the other rhetoric there, trying to lift them up. the major problem is 80% of the members of the republican conference are from districts where romney was 55% or better, so they see themselves as immune
regardless of what the polls show. >> are they more worried about congressional districts or presidential or lek tral votes? >> just looking out for number one. looking at their own cds. >> that is a concern. most presidents and to be a presidential party. they love executive authority. they liked john wayne power. democrats have sort of the let's get together and figure things out. republicans want to be john wayne. they want that white house so bad. commander in chief, they want it. and now, they're agenting like a party that doesn't know how to get it back because they're focusing on their home states and not the states themselves. the home districts. >> and whether you're looking at the national numbers or numbers among republicans, the story is the same. even ted cruz' poll shows more people blame republicans than the president and it's not just the nbc poll.
gallup, a greenberg poll out today. they all show the same thing. last week, there was a poll that showed 60% of republicans want to see republicans compromise. just as many democrats said they want to see democrats compromise. across the country, people are dissatisfied and disgusted with what's going on. >> go ahead. >> wup put it this way. gingrich ran a caucus around the members in marral seats and you'd manage yourself around that. >> yeah, i think so. the ones out in philadelphia and places like that. according to some democrats, they have a strong weapon. the person of ted cruz. quote, die hard republicans will consider him their best surrogate and we consider him our best surrogate, too. whether every he goes though, i
think he's a political liableily for all republicans. is that true? kind of like a bad guy? is he won of those pariah that hurts you as a senator? hurts other senators? >> he was in virginia last week in a governor's race and ken cuccinelli, who earlier in the campaign, said we needed more senators like ted cruz, wouldn't even get on the stage with him. i think that says it all. >> what do you think cruz said to that? he shows up for the guy, travels there, gives him his weekend, but he doesn't want to stand next to him. does he just say, i know i'm hated? how does he absorb that information in bhen they thought about it, don't be seen with this guy. >> you can't see the poll is wrong if you see a dpi running away from you. but i think it's a mistake and obviously, ted cruz is becoming more unpopular. gallup shows he's become better
known at all of that new notoriety is coming from his unfavorable. to know him is to not like him and that is obviously a problem. but i don't think this really should just be about ted cruz. this is about the republican party that has been led by this extreme faction. it's not just one person. if it's swrus one person, we wouldn't be seeing this, r wouldn't be in a shutdown. wouldn't be seeing those horrible poll numbers. >> back to tom on this question. think about this. i get the sense the democrats may be a little bit disarmed these days because they have such an obvious villain out there. they begin to relax. we got ted cruz out there singing the bad song everybody's going to come to us. is there a danger in thinking that? >> absolutely. first of all, the election is a year from now and you've got to remember that the president's party loses term seats in a midterm election. very rarely are there exceptions to that. this will change 100 times over.
there's no question this has been a setback and i think we'll see it this november. but over time, i don't think the democrats have any reason to feel complacent. republicans still favored to pick up senate seats. >> margie, what's your advice to a democrat running for office now? should you use ted cruz as a battering ram or poster boy for the republican party? is he useful to the democrats? >> he is. i would talk about republicans in washington more broadly. i would go in a field with a poll because it will be a good time to have good poll numbers to use down the road for fund raising or recruiting or getting folks on board. i would also point out another piece from the nbc poll that shows in just a month, just since the last poll, there's been a huge uptick in the number of people who feel the economy's going to get worse. so this isn't just about republicans. people feel this is really going to hurt the economy. >> big news on that front. i talked to a top republican,
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