tv [untitled] September 10, 2012 9:30pm-10:00pm EDT
talk about now gentlemen in the panel and our audience here what's the road forward we're going to questions little bit later what's the road for what's your ideal world jip my ideal world is it people go bankrupt go bankrupt and fail the way it's supposed to one way to eat away at what was to work is people who fail fail and then competent people come in take over the assets reorganize the start over what's happening now in the west is the government is taking the assets away from the competent people giving them to the incompetent people and saying to the incompetent people now you can compete with the coffee to be good with their money give you an example tell me grounded to handle variable temple example we all can understand in iceland. beginning of the financial crisis very interesting story a woman that ran a boutique had a good job she was an independent entrepreneur and within
a month she was wiped out and bankrupt and she said i did nothing wrong and she's right ok no the system punished or not the way she play by the rules or what have you played by the run happened in iceland was in the icelanders said we're not going to bailout the banks to hell with them let them go bankrupt and they refuse to pay the price and when they were here when i'll give generously or non-dollar they all at the bank and the banks they let me go back to my story what did she do wrong she did nothing wrong she did nothing wrong but she lives with i don't know what the woman from iceland but i certainly know about the stories about the americans who have housing that was very good in the bank told them you can upgrade by the way the money is free this is not about the basics to live this is purely facilitating living beyond your means that that is the problem and i am arguing and i wish americans all the best and capitalism is not just about companies it's a much wider spectrum of things because it's meant to deliver on prosperity in asia
we go down that route where we say you can had everything and there's no controls will be catastrophic and the size is very clear there's not enough to go around so what is the medium to which we reach this and i'm always fascinated that people from the west think we need to relate to the world we come for your question is right how do you stay you can't go on what's the model you want what's your ideal world ok jim houses if i hear correctly the other side of the panel the same capitalism go through booms and busts and let's regulate it so that it doesn't really go boom and doesn't really go bust and it's somewhere out in the middle but throw in the middle is always what my version of capitalism is this code seed is created for gays and this is the individuals who can succeed in things they want to see in life and they don't have barriers well it's corroding social responsibility attached to anything else it is up to the individual person. if you know these
types of serial so you can you can just opt out you don't care let me give you an example you can be a businessman in this part of russia and they're saying you know i could make money by cutting out the floors because the state has said that force is protected. so the rules all the time i totally agree with you we need entrepreneurs i'm an entrepreneur i'm not against capitalism but there are rules for to protect the public good individuals don't do that only if the state does that and that's what needs to be done we cannot weaken the state but i'm not suggesting we have authoritarian states either this is a clever discussion should be we should be having not about knowledge talent and ronald reagan that was twentieth century frank jump in and i am no fan of forced already in this sense i support america for example and not when you collect support your idea more than your story is important to sing with to reduce costs i think it's really much what you might want to but in but the thing about growth initiatives i think just cutting costs is not enough and if you want to see more
young people in your many and given your personal impressions that just lazy right why did the system do that and i think the system you know because for me you have a limited kind of slieve like in the social timex like all the social goodies and this we have to stop through capitalist. then we have to give them at least i do years in the future and that's what the state has to do right and given them you know these divisions for the future i mean to be fair isn't unemployment an incentive to make an equity jim environment and environment to create jobs and vironment and ridge then some printers can prosper would you agree or disagree creating the system their own printers can you know build a business he would be more concrete give me some point about what how do we prove it how to fix it but i would say you know i think that the difficulties in europe and the u.s. are born out of a historical sense of entitlement and privilege i think that age that we're going to have to do two things in my view the first one is we need to start understanding
that resources need to be priced properly secondly without accusing me of being a socialist we need to put collective welfare simply ahead of individual rights the japanese practice that but how it. did you see them in space so now we're going to price. they want to know when it's time jim keeps saying these things have to be done who's going to price the resources or the market the market is going to do a better job than the market failure i don't need to argue with people that markets fail so moscow is going to do it. the soviets are going to do it you know. that religious tradition. imagine if you didn't have the e.p.a. . we didn't have the paper a long time in this country you saying that today the state. yes i am doing this and i would say well yes. but you have to get
a microphone hold on. yes i know with a bit of regulation they have got it we i want to just a patient in the audience please sir stand up with you scott we were fine results for a lot of years until the early seventy's i think just. government organization that imposes increased. burdens on the business in the free market that ends up hurting the very consumers it's intended to protect how does it hurt the consumer. it's hurting the consumer. it's hurting the consumer with the current. standard words driving the internal combustion engine into obscurity so it's going to remove it from our lives remove a tremendous ok what you're reading on the really good point here is it's really fundamentally what is the role of the state here now so many people don't want any role whatsoever and you know and jim and i probably could argue with each other
until they're blue in the face about you know what kind of regulation caused the crash my view is not enough you probably would say to me the problem was the government the government was called the problem this central bank in america meant in the business going to be sold. at the same thing you know the government the central bank in america refused to let people go bankrupt they kept printing money and bailing people out so the people buying for homes for housing bubble you know i don't know of any oh wow downstream what we have for the baby ailing of the auto when you know of course not i wouldn't bail out anybody i wouldn't even bail out you don't even. know you were you know peter. and not even me i wouldn't bail out of me i wouldn't bail bail out your kid so i would you bail out the automobile industry the insurance industry the banking industry all of these industries will bail. thinking it is great because america america went in bailed out everybody and weighed less and less said mc you know i had the bomb and somebody. even like
civil war in some countries rich men like like you would like us rights and then just a few people on the street looking to you are right a lot of protests strike a balance don't function anymore and what we really need is a strong street we don't need more government we need better government leaders all of this for us election circus right the government comes in to do things to us or cycle cycle. circus acts a circus so basically the government comes in and a lot of promises in the first year in a second here. change in the thirty year kind of a standstill you know because we're lection time starts to force us complaining so nothing is moving right and there's no good government just so that's the reason when china and russia prefer different people the russian the chinese go ahead clientele smarter ones for billets they want stability for the businesses to prosper and less regulation ok i'm not saying there is a lot of less additional some ashes in america not at all but this is something that we need to improve because let me let me just go i'll go back to what i know a bit more of which is asia. is compare the two largest nations
a nation china and india one is democratically elected capitalist free markets maybe not operating as well one is more. state run with capitalism as well which country has delivered great on the frost on lifting people up the chinese system of course to china but because it has a strong state it doesn't take anything for granted that it does god it's my god if you ever tried to do business in india nobody can do business in india but as i never lived anywhere. you cannot be and you cannot be an entrepreneur in india unless you are in bed with the government that is the only way you can hear that is true and that's my point so this is the you know your question is do we need a strong stake my point is you need a strong state and the chinese system works because it's a strong state no easy answers it doesn't work because it's a weak state no it's a strong the chinese system works because they let all these people do what they
want to go the government couldn't keep up there but the chinese government is very clear about what you can and can't do oh please please as i said before they call themselves communists but they're fantastic capitalists and that's a form of government designed it doesn't really matter what you call the party then drops one of the problems you can have that people have a strong and china. not about the tea party i think it's not a common would like to me to talk about good governance i think we've just made your government in europe i can only talk about europe's i won't comment about the least of china russia or the us what we maybe need is a new system of just getting the best in the public maybe getting the on for nursing home for nurse also running government oh maybe you know me oh my god now you're going to have people who can make decisions the problem in your of the people running the countries who come to make decisions in china are the people in charge who can make decisions and not for us tough.
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thousands of u.s. troops in iraq received one of these drugs a drug called lariam and it may have prevented many soldiers from getting sick the question tonight is whether or not soldiers were adequately warned about its rare side effects serious life changing side effects. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom harpur welcome to the big picture.
maybe we should just have a state that has just basic requirements and leave it at that ok just a basis to say family how is that enough for you jim i would say yes you have a tsunami would schools and a fire department if you want to have your schools i don't know if i would agree with a lot every school america america or the schools or the america became a great country when it didn't have public schools it would have private every nobody had an automatic right to go to school in the nineteenth century in america if you had enough money your kids went to school you don't have to pay now do you think it should be
a right now to go to school of course i think everybody should but the state education america is a disaster you understand that american kids are not even in the top twenty in anything on international tests and america spends four times what the number two country does on education you think that's a good system i'm going off later i'm ok of course it was an awful system well it's occasional one three second of course infrastructure into so it's very important for him to culture a culture of extremely important talk about money you can talk about capitalism but it also gives c. interests symphony orchestra's music to the people but it's really a task of the government. i mean my own my view is that capitalism i think kept a. one point plea deal in chinese we have a dream where we can choose not to have a car i think that's the point i support yes smart. good point good point. thank you my name's tom wheeler right i'm
a former astray and senator i've been living for the last twelve years on rice and low taxes and presently living in singapore but i'm going over the end of the month . where did you get this idea that morality had anything to do with an economic system nowhere in the wealth of nations that adam smith ever say greed is good i defy you to show me the page what he did say was that morality is not a very useful way of looking at an economic system rather than the very good of it keep it short but keep it short it's not really a sense of right and wrong when your parents teachers that not the economic system but the wealth of nations the wealth of nations was written by a scotsman who lived about two hundred fifty years ago he alleges the center of the empire why should the rest of us be following his edicts secondly he never went to india or china or asia didn't understand the world where the euro in no way has. he wrote a book called the theory of moral sentiments too but the economy is very conveniently
tend to ignore all of that. and the wealth of nations does talk a lot about morality are you saying that nobody had any brains unless we rode into the top but two hundred years later we're still just referring to adam smith we still read plato we read. but it's one of those. economists seem to just refer to the relevance and karl marx was well i think. frankly. to your fellow. but you know i would like to mention one great thinker the ability to tell. and he basically said the end justifies the means and the city can always point your finger on somebody that's normal reality in the system it's like a tit for tat it's like a zero sum game and what do we need to do and maybe it's my. just two pennies in a nutshell how to save capitalism is to give up this next few billion mindsets and
go for a win win situation. really be a positive so that's what it'll sound ok to do it maybe you know if we wind this down can we have a win win situation for us and we haven't really apply if you increase the pie if you have the pie which you have to do why is that always somebody's going to lose if you increase the price increase consumption through the month of supply yep. sorry but when we're this utopian hubris somewhere where others lose weight a minute well how do you mallet how do you balance it out it's a stand if the world economy improves sure people are better off that's when when that's not when where when and who loses the people in china two hundred million people now have running water is that lose a lot i didn't say that but why did you say hang on the cost of economic power economic growth in china following the current model has created a huge cost that's the challenge what kind of israel in other words what you're
referring to i really don't understand what kind of coke yeah who the environmental cause for people living in the first three years been huge and the chinese government the first to acknowledge that this is. and they're taking cues in terms of trying to address they know that they had unrestrained growth has come with a huge price they have to completely look at things in a different so you're saying that everybody in china she go back to one nine hundred seventy eight before i don't think. this is not working right gentlemen of the audience i want to keep the audience and gauge serves give your name please and a quick question i meant a single from canada and i just had a question my mind sometimes you've been speaking a lot about letting businesses fail but in the current situation. you could almost say countries have just a significant effect what situation what do you believe when it comes to countries should we let them also fail such as greece spain portugal iceland maybe the
sovereign countries there's a company just going to hold it while i when they go bust here i would make the point that in iceland they let them fail iceland failed and now since there has been one of the most rapidly growing prosperous countries in europe a stone near the same thing they failed and they have booms since we didn't twenty years ago they failed and yet now it's been booming you look at japan they refuse to let people fail it's twenty two years later in japan as last two decades that way does not work you let countries fail and then they start over that way that's why they won't work i guess that is greece is all about saving the euro not saving the greek people i think less countries feel good i'm european material even so i'm based in switzerland and we always very critical when it comes to brussels but short solidarity to all the other european countries that just come to see that congress like germany and sweden take advantage in terms of you know the strong exports and easy. not of some congress will fail i think we have to help them it's
a little solidarity maybe some of the very capitalist and i don't want to you know that's a lot of. so much hope that you know what man is a man school when your boss. basically your backs i don't agree with this for us england we are born to be a good people and we should always try to get back my gentleman and all of you know i want to ask you what about austerity is this the century of austerity i have been talking for i did i had the money union this is not this is another report it is not a solution i would completely agree with him greece would go but two years ago it would have been much better right now yes but i know there's a green on your social unrest yes howls of people on the street have nothing to eat today when you go to a doctor increases to paying cash because it's oceanfront systems not working anymore people are feeling people it's a real problem your solution what is your solution and i'm supposed to pay for the great not you or your american who's going to. meet my european abit of paper leave the rich elite around and start writing but not at infineon but we're very
fortunate to have a love of the euro it was getting back to the draft deleted the currency it seems we're going to win a cheap and well the code for european tour is going to greek island you'll have perfect economy that they won't let me read it leave me griese we're saying in the patients what we'd do we do the big question is. how do we make sure people don't get critically ill that's the question how did green get away its extreme forms of they were spending suggesting to people they had everything my view is in this part of the world we should that is the extreme form of capitalism we should not allow our spending by the government the reason greece is not always easy is because overspending by the go the us is overspending long government the u.s. should fail to us don't worry and has failed the world doesn't want to keep going back to our audience here sir please stand up give us your name i'm wondering from
last russia what do you think about the idea that capitalism system will be successful in case the states will be their main capitalist. tax states will decrease taxes and more shareholders will would be federal agents and everything would be ok it still depends on what kind of state we want what kind of state the union of socialist the union of soviet socialist republics public of china. in people republic of china pay is one of the shareholder in many many enterprises right i know but they're selling them off they're selling them off and they're letting the market take take over but this is nothing wrong with that state is working as a good capitalist in china it's an increase in the twelve making money to feed all those people. sorry but there is no alternative way to decrease texas and that way if any tests will be criticized in the wrong ideal
a lot of the states on chinese companies all of them think in the very capitalistic ways of thinking about think about the profits they do not care about social responsibility and much less of a the many american the european companies face on companies which drug for the state the make money this is good debate i pulled the movie on saying that the opposite of capitalism is socialism this is not. by the way paying taxes is a good thing we should all be texas which is does everybody does everyone pay their fair share jim how much. did mitt romney pay a lot of. we don't know right hold on like wait wait wait a minute wait a better george is spending how to spend your money or is george bush or is barack obama three people who is the best choice of how to spend your money you george bush or barack obama so i never have a say in it and i think the system is rotten on both sides so you don't you don't think you should give them the money to the politicians to say spend my money then
my money i think money rich people should pay more money i do and i think middle class people should be giving away what's wrong when you have a more money why don't you have more money and spend it yourself instead of letting george bush think oh someone needs to build the roads so that you can just call because i want to build because we all build it we all build security so that you are safe so much american the american military like focused on. the american military has one thousand bases around the world so my taxes have to go to george bush so he can send one thousand military bases around the lease i agree with what i agree with you on the democracy so you should be the most powerful military in the world and you choose that government i don't feel i should say we should diminish. you go around saying. that's your name and you're listening or maybe you haven't been. paying attention maybe i haven't been making. them up for the moment america believes it's weak it flexes its military muscle that is your problem
you've got to solve it for i don't know if we're going to solve it capitalism in american militarism a most panel ok question to most of us from hong kong i think i think you stand up please sir i think you don't need to be like money to poor people or that is what you need to do if you need to to to engage them and that's what i like like like some good n.g.o.s are doing here in asia i interviewed some of them in thailand in malaysia and indonesia was it doing they said a community if you want like like better housing like first race on monday save some money and then with us' arrest so they that you appreciate what you have and what they came here jim what do you think of micro micro finance micro finance i mean small well there have been so many scandals and so many losses yes the first guy got a nobel prize since then it's been corrupted corroded and it's been a disaster now people are going to jail that is an absolute exaggeration of what micro finance and. ways that i don't exactly what i say there was factually
incorrect are there not people going to jail because of micro-finance but the bankers just got to jail the. micro finance people who broke the rules and gone to jail but to suggest that micro finance is corrupted all around the world is a great great i read about where that guy got a nobel prize then it has become very you do a lot more work. on the question as a result of financial lessons from cleveland observation this is a wonderful concept so is christianity if you like greek run into violence and you're right to get the specs are you suggesting michael finances no place in the world i didn't say that the attendant what i said was the first guy did a good job and there are good people doing it but it's like everything else where there's religion politics education it gets called the road but it plays a very important role for. those who enter they can also in the world because in a competitive market that's how right or i don't know market and this is i got exactly what i wanted i hope you did too i want to take
a poll of the audience again is anybody change their mind ok i'll ask the question has capitalism lost its compass hands up. what are you that you know the smart people deal with. and so everybody thinks the reverse just the opposite put your hands up. if you i think it is least those that did i think it least we entertained you here ok it's the same amount here. that's it from our debate here at apec two thousand and twelve here in russia many thanks for your questions and taking part in please join me in thanking our distinguished panel right here it's goodbye from me peter lavelle on and everyone else here at the apec summit in votto stuff thank you very much.