tv [untitled] September 28, 2012 2:30am-3:00am EDT
so that it can continue the brutal oppression the killing the incarceration the torture of palestinians so that it can continue holding thousands of palestinian political prisoners so that it can destroy towns and villages so that it can keep people in gaza in this in this awful concentration camp and all the time all the while people talk about iran iran i think it's a bluff i think the whole iran thing is a bluff and a myth but. generally the israeli the state of israel knows how to use this very skillfully to its advantage so on the one hand nobody can talk about the palestinian issue because there's this great threat from iran on the other hand if israel doesn't get what it wants then you better watch out because we're going to attack if we don't get what we want and so attacking would actually mean they'd have to give up this wonderful political card and i don't think they would want to do this this is this is a very successful strategy that's allowed israel to accomplish quite a lot ok given giving if i go back to you how does netanyahu back down ok obama has
said no use the american intelligence community and said no how does netanyahu get it you know back down and say ok because he's really risking a lot here. yes he's risking a lot also in the. in the relationship between israel and the united states mainly for barack obama will be reelected then they matter now might face a real problem even though we don't know yet if obama in a second term will be any different than obama in the first but in any case there are many ways to get out of the tree or to continue there are tory doing anything don't forget also that domestically and yell most probably lost in l.a. for it take namely the minister of defense barak who recent days or weeks sound all of a sudden different and then it to me i was really quite isolated even though mess
to clean so all of this together will have to bring some kind of getting down of the tree and pulling. this thing keeping it because they totally good reason because saying that this this israel this two years of certainly spreading fear has to continue into. fire until something will happen you know do you think netanyahu is just terrified of obama second it ministration because of the bad personal relationship they have had and let's face it netanyahu snubbed obama a number of times and his administration i'm pretty sure the administration would like to see the end of mr netanyahu. yes i have but i don't think that's on yahoo i don't think it matters to him i think he knows that anyone knows very well that here in america the price of doing business if you want a political career is kowtow ing to israel and bowing to the israeli lobby and
that's the price of doing business so obviously you can tell that president obama doesn't like it. you know he even called he referred to in it then you know his comments as noise in the background which i think was very appropriate. but i think that bibi knows very well that in american politics if you want to succeed you have to pay israel and you have to go on with this with this cult and that's the reality and if you look today i was just looking at haaretz this morning they were saying bibi will only reference the palestinian issue in his in his comments in other words this is a massive diplomatic victory for him with everything that's going on the massive building in the west bank the massive expulsion of people destruction of towns the ongoing ethnic cleansing that is that is a part and parcel of life and for palestinians and is a part and parcel or a major part of policy of israeli policy towards the palestinians this ethnic cleansing goes unchecked and nobody talks about it where the united nations and the
the issue in every newscast in every newspaper is iran it's an issue that doesn't even exist so for even a ten you know this is a major victory and and whether or not. president obama gets re-elected and likes him or dislikes him to tell you how this is completely irrelevant he's using this card the political card of the threat of iran very skillfully and and i hope that president obama gets reelected and if and when he does i don't think it's going to make any difference i don't think he's going to want to get himself involved in this issue any more than he has already because he's got nothing to gain and and the relationship with israel i don't see it changing at all certainly not in the next four was interesting getting it you know we've done a number of programs lately on this topic and there seems that there are a number of elites of the united states are getting disillusioned with netanyahu and that the jewish community in the united states is not nearly as monolithic as maybe netanyahu believes it is. yeah this is.
going to be in on this one ok go ahead. yeah this is totally true but one should keep proposing and i mean we were being told for few years now that the jewish communities changing the new liberal voices the j. street there are. finally basically the jewish community still is powerful as it used to be as conservative and pro israeli and pro all right wing and pro patient as it used to be and those changes if they take place they love us they take much more time and they don't happen within months or even few years until now until this very moment i don't see a major change in the american poli sci not before the elections not after the elections one can ask himself why did the united states put a veto last year on the very basic demand to recognize palestine
as a state in the un how can the united states put itself in such an embarrassing position in which i agrees or knows the united states and israel against the whole world and student happened by barack obama may be the most liberal american president ever and he did so so this change which we all look for and wait for and pray for this change didn't happen yet ok make up can you explain to me and maybe there is no explanation because most american jews are liberal and most of them support obama and those that vote will probably vote for obama but we still have this very concise consistent pollen defending israel and its policies on the ground there what you want to see the american jews are just compartmentalize it i mean but they do say but that's a different topic a different subject because where they kept their values then.
well i think i'd preface. the preface my answer by saying i really don't think the jewish community is monolithic. by a complete book the general's son has been out. i've been touring the country and i booked a tour the country over the next few months and i would say at least half of the invitations that i get. i get from america is for jewish americans and these are jewish americans who have been who are very progressive who have been part of the progressive community and have a progressive agenda including progressive on the issue of israel and i think the process that's taking place and i get on said it's a very slow process but i see it very quite clearly is disenchantment of the american jews with zionism they look at the state of israel more and more and they say well this is not what we stand for we stand for more progressive more liberal
values and here we have a state that's got thousands of political prisoners a state that is actually day by day in gauging ethnic cleansing of the meanest kind of state that's holding a thousand millions of people in under under a terrible siege in gaza children are starving deprived of water this is not the state that represents me and so there's a real shift within that i see among american jews from a very honest point of view and a pro israel point of view to a non zionist point of view and this non-scientists point of view i think is going to be where american jews are heading and i think that's eventually where it's going to go and i think it's a very good thing i think it's a very positive sign so you're absolutely right there is this there is the sense that mainstream jewish communities if we can if we can call them that while they are progressive and do vote for president obama are quite are quite conservative and quite perhaps irrational when it comes to the issue of israel but i see more
and more of a shift away from that and. you have to understand also that within within the mainstream jewish synagogues and the jewish communities there is a very very. considerable stronghold of apac and the zionist zionist education and very right wing zionist agenda that is being taught and being and that's you know people their children are being indoctrinated in sunday school that your schools here in america teach a very right wing very ok meir you can jump in here we'll quick gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion around and say.
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want to. welcome back to cross talk you talk about your mind you were talking about israel's possible strike against iran. if you. start. getting if i go back to you what is the sentiment on the ground in israel about netanyahu is rhetoric and iran ok you people take him seriously because in your own newspaper there was a poll that found that fifty percent of israelis fear for the survival of their country should there be a conflict so what's it like on the ground. principle of this this should surprise us because after two three years of spreading fear systematically. this has its outcomes. what would you expect from a average israeli who keeps on hearing the. holocaust series
around the corner. existences steak and. these not less than modern. when you hear all of this is the magically the media usually collaborates was this the israeli media so what you get is a few fool. people are fearful nation i think the. israelis. in their d.n.a. is existence thirty years they're old they're very deep rooted part of the justified most of them totally manipulate the exaggerated. governments government of the government no to manipulate it and to use it to misuse it for their own interests ok let me go if i go back to you a few days ago patrick clawson he's been a guest on this program he's a director of research at the pro israel think tank the washington institute for
near east policy and he said publicly if the iranians aren't going to compromise it would be best if someone else started the war now maybe if netanyahu doesn't take this seriously and maybe it's just a cover as you point out and i tend to agree with you there are a lot of americans are take this very seriously does that worry you. well i think it's a worrisome one when people talk about war as though it was a game and and encourage people to go to war i think it's a very dangerous thing at the same time i would argue that that whether it's a pro zionist think tank whether it's a pac whether it's any of the other organizations that are kind of that are linked . to the state of israel i think they're all playing the same game i don't think. they they take this seriously in terms of thinking that there is really a threat i think they see this is a tremendous opportunity to blow it way out of proportion so that we continue
talking about this as opposed to talking about the racism and the oppression and the brutal killing of palestinians by israel every single day and again like i said earlier if we look at the newscasts if we look at the news shows in the newspapers this is the subject that everybody talks about and again when when when somebody like this comes out from a think tank and talks and hypes the conversation even more we're farther away from talking about once again the real issue which are israel's crimes against the palestinians so i think this is all part of the same charade i think it's all part of the same plan well you know it's i'm not sure if i should close and knows it's a game ok because we had him on the program here he's quite serious about the threat of iran ok and even he truly believes that they're going to be able to weaponize well a bomb very very soon gideon what do you think about this i mean is this just people being gullible or are they just on someone's payroll or is it the
ideological i mean how do you explain your american colleagues you know your friends in america and when you look at how they think i mean you must be aghast. let's talk peter about it and you know you can raise the same questions for an attorney who himself doesn't really believe in what he say or does he many people ate everything and here and i say i know much less obviously about american think tanks than this thing things but they are all inspired by what they hear from the tell you how and his environment and i can tell you that i truly believe this is. as a credit for the senate and yell i truly believe that the guy he's deeply convinced that iraq is presenting. danger to israel and seeing the tea truly believes that he's the messiah who would save the jewish
people and the state of israel from another holocaust i think this is quite deep rooted in his way of thinking and way of acting and ok to give you things do you think that is why saying this since one thousand nine hundred three i mean he's been saying this since ninety ninety three yeah they're going to get about i believe that. yeah i believe that he believes in the it's not only that they're going to get the bomb but would they have been born it's the end of the state of israel and maybe even the jewish people i truly believe that he is really in his retore you don't know what comes before war first was the conviction and then there were toric so first the tories and then the conviction but i am totally sure that the ease convince the it that presents a real danger for israel and this i guess influences all of those.
jewish mystic think tanks or any other parts of the jewish establishment in the united states you know mico you know we just recently did a program on other program on the arab spring and i've always thought during all these changes going on in the arab middle east that this would be an opportunity for israel to make peace with the palestinians and then kind of step aside and watch how the arab middle east on folds because it's getting it's messy it's going to get messier and you know what israel always be something that they can point to is what's wrong with their lives because israel exists but if the israelis were smart make peace with the palestinians and just stay off to the side that would be a possibility for them but no they want to attack another country in the region they look like what they are war mongers. well you know we have to look back at this issue of an existential threat and we have to look at the history the sixty five year of the sister of the state of israel if we look at the
if we look at it you know we can see a pattern there is always a pattern of hyping an existential threat in order to justify it in order to justify a policy be it a war be it continuing the ethnic cleansing of palestine de arab izing of the you know the land of israel from arabs and palestinians destroying towns and villages and so on this is not changed almost every prime minister every government the state of israel has ever had as hyped this issue of an existential threat you know in my book i talk about the one nine hundred sixty seven the minutes of the generals right before the war talking about the fact that there is no threat at all there's an opportunity and when we look at the details we always realize actually there was no threat on the other side i think this is true again today israel doesn't want peace because peace is not part of the zionist agenda it's not part of their strategic thinking their purpose is to cleanse the land of israel from arabs and from its arab culture and history and to create this this mythological connection between today's state of israel and king david's kingdom of israel this
is the name of the game you know making peace of the palestinians never was and i fear it never will be part of any zionist government and so this is why they have to say this way and again if we look at the sixty five year span of the state of israel we can see this this is a pattern you know getting in you know extrapolating from what mico said then i think maybe netanyahu does believe that iran is going to get a weapon very soon in israel must act because this israel has a history of fighting real or imagined threats all use of force and then figured out later that's what's so dangerous about this. you know. first of all it is dangerous i truly believe that any i was brought up in a very suspicious fear suspecting anyone in the world that this is a potential enemy to the state of israel suspecting any liberal any democrat any human rights activist any human east is an anti semitic and in
this sadness fear. this film for this reason he is. perceiving every seeing. the outcome is not surprising at all i totally agree with make sure that. ateneo is not any different basically from all the other israeli governments and is very prime minister no the peace was palestinians was never a goal for israel unfortunately so because the end putting an end to the occupation was never an interest of israel it never was a goal for israel and without putting an end to the patient there would be no peace with the palestinians so. found himself one way. to break away from making peace with the palestinians but even without the run israeli prime
ministers had demonstrated many creative ways not to do anything about peace with the palestinians and not to do anything about putting an end to the occupation once it was the terror or once it was that there is no palestinian people once it is from us once it is filed widely so once it is mahmoud abbas the excuses where all. these really you can trust these really prime ministers and politicians they will find many more excuses not to put an end to the patient with or without. where do we do we go from here i mean it looks pretty obvious that obama is going to be reelected least in my mind here do you see that because of all of the bad relations between the leaders of these two countries and we have to remember hillary clinton remember netanyahu when he was prime minister before i mean again i'm sure they would like to see the back side of him what do you think the relations will change because people say they're somewhat soured but we've heard
this before. i don't think they're going to change dramatically you know i will say one thing just about this impending attack they're going to tell you how with all of his faults a shrewd politician and even he can see i think that there is no value to him at all. excuse me in attacking iran there's no political value there's no military value there is no reason for him to actually attack iraq because the day after the attack what do we do with this thing yeah we've lost the threat we've lost the issue we've given it up and we're left with a problem now so i think that i knew i was shooting well you know and i didn't know he had to say you know what i mean unless the americans clean you know or pay for it because that's what usually happens ok gentlemen i have run out of time thank you very much and i for any thanks to my guest today in san diego and in television thanks to our viewers for watching us here already see you next time and remember.