tv Headline News RT June 23, 2013 4:00pm-4:46pm EDT
this is. a day. a whistleblower edward snowden who is wanted by the u.s. has formally applied for political asylum in ecuador that's according to the country's foreign minister snowden is currently in a moscow airport waiting to board his next flight tomorrow. when it's crossed now to. the airport paul so bring us up to date what's been happening there at the airport since. hong kong. has been.
on the world hoping to grab a glimpse of the world's most famous but it was. the confirmation that he is in the. building behind me. from the ecuadorian embassy and in particular. that he has indeed. came from the countries. in. the way. to himself now the suggestion. is going to be spending the evening in the.
because we are hearing that he's having problems with his visa that could have something to do with the fact that america suggested that they want revoked. the problems there with his paper he has to remain in transit which would make him quite difficult for him to leave the of course. on his way. to. do to arrive in cuba where it's expected. the way. that they will. appeal. the case will be treated the same.
surrounding it. has been greeted by the. asylum in ecuador and he remains overnight here at moscow sheremetyevo airport for thank you very much indeed for that. well of course the question is now whether ecuador will grant him that asylum and standing outside the ecuadorian embassy all day has been all reported the banknorth say many are now asking of course there was speculation that venezuela was on his list for his destination but it's now ecuador why do you think he's chosen. indeed bill there was a sermon speculations are running around today i mean it was a whole game of cat and mouse and now everything has stabilized a little bit with snowden now added the airport and having a better tweet to from the foreign affairs a minister of ecuador saying that indeed that application has been submitted by snowden and he is asking for asylum in ecuador now right now we're still outside of
the ecuadorian embassy now we know that outpost was there the airport we did see the that envoy from the editorial the embassy is still hasn't come back yet so we too are still waiting to see where else it's leading now we the speculation surrounding ecuador and the reason is become such a central part of us snowden's extradition story is because it resonates a some of the pieces of one a famous whistleblower julian assange jews holed up at the ecuadorian embassy in london he's been holed up there for over a year now are obviously the story behind julian assange might be a little bit different to slow down he did of course was wanted by sweden for charges of a sexual assault of which he's always denied he was then pretty vocal about not wanting to go back to sweden for fear of being extradited to the united states where he could face charges against him of the leaking of those military and diplomatic cables which will lead to to the media last year he seek asylum at the
dorrian a government in the ecuadorian embassy in london of which he was granted the ecuadorian government then released a statement saying the reason for granting him that asylum was because of certain reasons that they felt that he would not if he were in fact to be extradited to the united states he would not receive a fair trial and that there were fears that he might be mistreated while in the united states now we know that julian assange the whistleblower and of course the head of the week has been so one. being this is the story of snowden the last couple of days and certainly today so the fact that snowden had contact with the whistleblower might have suggested that they may have decided that perhaps it is indeed the safest place for him he may not have it may not be the easiest way to extradite him while he's in ecuador he is of course now facing those are paperwork
that he needs to be facing for the next couple of hours see if you will indeed leave law school to ecuador via. because so really at this point it's all about sitting with sitting ducks we're waiting to see if indeed ecuador will come out with a statement to confirm whether they've given him that asylum or whether indeed he will be holed up in the in the airport in moscow and see where he ends up and will will still be here finding out all of us back to you in the studio bill thanks very much indeed outside the ecuadoran embassy there in central moscow well now we're joined live by author gregory will put for more on that snowden's possible asylum in ecuador but i suppose it's a foregone conclusion that quito will accept this request yes i think so especially since basically he's coming to our courtyard which pretty much presume so it's all right with otherwise they could have said from the start.
a foregone conclusion but here's a man on the run but what other options does he have who else could he turn to if he had to. well you could certainly have turned to her idea of governments a lot in america most prominently probably the ones that are most critical towards u.s. foreign policy such as cuba of course venezuela and bolivia was at the maternity of options as well. the reason why i think it chose our court or simply because you know julian assange has already. been accepted by the ecuadorian government and so he knows that there is precedence for this type of case but he's been in a difficult position do you think at the moment what's going through his mind that he's in a safe place that he's definitely got to get on a plane to have bene and then on to ecuador whether it is via correctness or is there still a chance that he could be caught by u.s. officials well there's always that possibility i think considering that. i turn around and you know about are going to swear you know it's relatively
unlikely because unless they stop him already in moscow. it's unlikely that he would be stopped in those other places what about the plane being intercepted there are some saying that the u.s. will go to every length to stop and even though it's a commercial flight they could divert the plane to make it land somewhere where they could actually arrest and. well i don't know exactly i mean seems like rubio complete violation of international law but i guess i mean i think it's possible in that sense but i would doubt that they would do go to such lengths especially because this is a very controversial case so i mean the controversy itself if the new controversial movie would just make the situation worse what do you think it would do or is so willing to give shelter to whistleblowers. well i think it has something to do with the opposition of government such as ecuador and i would include honestly i believe you know those as well in their opposition to us foreign policy and they know that
they are targets of astana and by the n.s.a. which is exactly what what snowden was a blogger revealed is the extent of u.s. spying on other countries and other communications around the world and therefore they would certainly be sympathetic to somebody who reveals information about that so i think that's really the main reason gregory will put thank you very much indeed for your thoughts on this great it will put live him a naughty thank you pleasure well as we're reporting the u.s. has reportedly revoked edward snowden's passport and notified hong kong and russia but it didn't stop him from traveling how he's going to teach khan has more on this . the u.s. reportedly revoked edward snowden's passport yesterday but apparently it was too late for hong kong officials to stop him from flying in moscow snowden has been in the transit area at the airport where he doesn't need his passport now the speed with which the u.s. government stripped him of his passport is astonishing it's not clear how they
manage that from the legal standpoint but it shows how much the u.s. wants to get hold of him the government is clearly afraid of more revelations the debate in the media has shifted to this chase mode it's now all about how are we going to catch him so right now the media is unsympathetic to edward snowden although just a week ago many of the same journalists who are almost cheerleading for his capture now were grateful for snowden's revelations which were indeed i mean policymakers here are doing everything they can to shift the attention away from his revelations by focusing on scolding himself or even by attacking other countries like russia senator chuck schumer was on one of the use channels this morning saying president putin has aided and abetted snowden is a scape adding that quote putin always seems almost eager to put a finger in the eye of the united states voted himself said he would seek asylum in a country that would not be easily pressured by the u.s. we know that the u.s. has put a lot of pressure on hong kong to arrest snowden and not to let him leave the
country but in a statement the government of hong kong says u.s. documentation did not quote fully comply with the legal requirements under hong kong law but also in the same statement the government of hong kong adds that they want more information about the hacking of computer systems in hong kong by you was government agencies something that was part of snowden's revelations so in this official statement we see hong kong shifts the focus from the messenger edward snowden back to the message to the revelations that he has made demanding an explanation from the u.s. government now more on how the u.s. is going out of its way to keep the focus on the messenger to blackout the message my report. america is split on edward snowden traitor hero mixed in between but we guard lissa what anyone thinks about snowden his revelations have shed unprecedented light on the u.s. government's massive spying program even if you're not doing anything wrong you're being watched and recorded for me to say employ you william binney was prosecuted
as a traitor when he blew the whistle on the government sweeping collection of data and communications it's setting up a tele tarion state. when the government has that much information they can do those things they can use the i.r.s. to intimidate people or anything else they can send the f.b.i. people what they did to me and some others bradley manning too is being prosecuted as a traitor although it's so his war logs that the public learned about the. collateral murder was committed in iraq the obama administration has prosecuted more whistleblowers under the espionage act than all previous administrations combined but it was a lower say it's not government persecution that they fear the greatest fear that i have regarding the outcome. for america of these disclosures is that nothing will change the administration is not trying to convince the american people that government secrets programs are a trade off they have to make in the name of national security they always have the
same stories about you know science manning's known you know psychological stories what is wrong with these people cause them to do this i mean the real question is what is wrong with everyone else from who doesn't see what they can see but whistleblowers are not the only targets there is an obligation both moral but also legal i believe against a reporter that was the chairman of the house committee on cutting teligent and terrorism peter king calling to punish the journalist who exposed the government surveillance programs in its hunt for meeks the obama administration has already targeted its it's trying to set the precedent for the communicating with the media is the same as communicating with the enemy and it's a death penalty offense the administration doesn't have to go after her or he certainly it's enough to create an environment of fear but will that fear stop information from coming out here that we're snowden to answer that by. kone in response is simply build
a better whistleblower. in washington i'm going to check out well for more on those reports that washington has revoked snowden's passport let's talk to attorney and historian general holder who's been closely following developments jerrold just how easy is it for the u.s. to revoke a possible just like that. well one would hope that there would be notice to mr snowden and a hearing before something as important as a passport is revoked but if you examine the state department's statement they basically said that that was not necessary from their point of view if you are accused of a felony then your passport can be revoked it's well known that particularly during the cold war period united states routinely revoke the passports of political dissidents and of course the us have done this so you cannot travel anywhere else and they even said to moscow that he must be deported and should not travel he is stopped now though isn't he you can't travel any further without that it possible
well not necessarily the united states for example routinely excepts on its territories citizens flaying cuba without passports i would also say the united states routinely receives on its soil those it deems to be political dissidents who do not have passports so i don't feel that moscow is hands are tied with regard to mr snowden not having a passport and in any case if we assume that his eventual destination is ecuador if you look at the extradition treaty between united states ecuador there is a provision that says that extradition does not have to be adhered to if a so-called political crime is at play and certainly what mr snowden is accused of is in essence a political crime but will there be a major diplomatic spat and phone up between moscow and washington if he does fly off tomorrow to have anna. well if you listen to the congress persons appearing on
sunday check shows today united states more with think so they're breathing fire threatening measures just short of nuclear war if mr snowden is not speedily dispatched back to new york or washington however i think that they'll get over it i think that they recognize that moscow has the opportunity if not a responsibility to make sure that mr snowden is not prosecuted for what is in essence a political crime you talk about that in tense anger amongst many there in washington could we see some sort of drastic attempt to perhaps divert the plane and make it land somewhere where they could apprehend him. well you can't rule that out when you're talking about united states of america which seeds itself was the police officer of the world however i would caution the u.s. authorities to trick carefully hurting them in such
a situation as this fundamental because it's well known as mr obama has said himself washington would like to reset relations with moscow as well so that it can pivot towards china and basically engage in a negative light basis in china it's going to be difficult for the united states to ratchet up pressure against china simultaneously has a difficult relations with moscow and i think that operative principle will basically be in play as the scenario unfolds so just finally general we've got a man on the run he's at moscow airport maybe in a hotel in the terminal perhaps sleeping on the airport floor tonight would he think he's going to be in effect a free man and get to where he wants to and be out of the grip of the u.s. is he on the final straight. well i would bet that mr snowden will be sleeping in ecuador sooner rather than later keep in mind that ecuador has difficult diplomatic relations with washington a major u.s.
oil company has pollute the environment in ecuador and poisoned and basically killed a number of citizens united states refuses to be forthcoming with regard to bring in this oil company to justice supposedly mr snowden will be transiting through havana and we all know the difficult relations between cuba and united states so i would say that mr snowden should sleep soundly tonight attorney and historian general holder great to talk to you thank you very much and a few thoughts here in r.t. thank you we'll have more updates on the edward snowden story of this short break stay with us this is r.t. live here moscow coming up to twenty minutes past the hour now.
like here in moscow we're following the story of whistleblower edward snowden he's the seventh person the obama administration has sought to punish for leaking classified data let's look at some of his major revelations while he disclosed the documents showing the n.s.a. has access to huge streams of internet data including e-mails chat rooms and videos from large companies such as facebook and google he showed how the u.s. government used the secret foreign intelligence surveillance court together extensive data from phone service provider verizon and he told china hundreds of targets were being hacked and according to his latest leak the u.k. is collecting and storing huge amounts of sensitive personal data from online and telephone trafficking and sharing it with america where u.k. investigative journalist tony goldwyn believes the revelations a bigger than many think. the real impact of what he's done here is only now starting to be realized it's not only is he exposing criminality the signals
intelligence power of the british intelligence services also the national security agency but he's also showing that much of that intelligence contains information which may bring criminal prosecutions for example of war crimes criminal criminal prosecutions against for example bankers but this is what people don't necessary understand is there will be information that edward snowden has that can actually bring some of these people to trial eventually and that's why the west is so afraid if britain was really serious about any kind of real justice we would be able to invite him to london and say yes you can tell all your secrets or your stories to people here in britain you'll be safe here he's actually exposing criminals and the criminals are going for him now. laws kay leader of the u.k. pirate party believes the u.s. will try to convince the public that edward snowden is a traitor to distract attention from his revelations. what we can be sure of is that the united states will continue to tar him with the brush of being
a traitor whatever his final destination is but we have to remember that that is a distraction what we need to focus on is actually the core of this story which is his read the revelations about mass surveillance remember this is about whistle blowing it's not espionage it's about actually revealing. a mass surveillance which is potentially illegal and is certainly has been kept putting behind closed doors without proper democratic debate without proper democratic oversight we're told all the time that if we've got nothing to hide we've got nothing to fear but that has now been blown out of the water by edward snowden's revelations and the fact is that the more that's collected about us the more we have to fear. whether a fresh turns in the global sky spy scandal whistleblower russell tice who released
his secrets during the george w. bush era says that former cia head general petraeus and even barack obama were once targets for n.s.a. snooping you confirm that data was being stored. in the been a journalist believes tice's revelations didn't get the attention they deserve. while the snowden drama unfolds something that's being swept under the rug are these new revelations from n.s.a. whistleblower russell tice who is in fact one of the people who is one of the sources for the original two thousand and five new york times story on the n.s.a. wiretapping scandal at that time but now russell tice to step forward with more information into explosive interviews from the last few days he talked about how the the n.s.a. is in fact storing not just the metadata which has been a talking point in the news of so far but the content of all electronic communications that are going across the u.s. servers from e-mails to faxes to phone calls all of it being stored now at the new data center and in utah he also went on record to name names of some of the
specific targets of n.s.a. spying with the implication that this information was being used for blackmail and purposes on including senator then senator barack obama including general david petraeus and others who he mentioned by name including supreme court justices and top ranking military and republican congressional officials so this is being specifically avoided right now and the implication is that the news outlets are as we've seen with the snowden story and other stories collaborating with the intelligence agencies behind the scenes to repress this information but this is this is absolutely explosive and again coming from a key n.s.a. whistleblower who is right now being ignored with these allegations. those whistle blowers such as snowden revealed government's appetite for personal data we're interested in how you feel about your private information being collected by security agencies this is how you've been voting so far on our website today dot com well the overwhelming majority of you there think that collecting private data
without any warning whatsoever is totally unacceptable and then significantly less of you sixteen percent this hour so that people really can't provide their answers online because they're going to be tracked anyway so they don't have an opinion and seven percent of you are sure that snooping is totally justified as long as it does indeed target terrorist suspects without the mass tracking of everyone and is there to prevent any atrocities and finally a minority says that well if you've got nothing to hide then what's the problem carry on with this monitoring and the surveillance so those are your thoughts in a moment on our website dot com do you get involved if you haven't done so already would be good to hear from me. well a washington based journalist kevin go stone and he joins me live now to give us his views on edward snowden and the latest developments so why do you think he chose ecuador then is fine with destination he's going to aqua door because you managed to create some kind of communication with the wiki leaks organization
people who are part of the staff he was able to reach out to the legal team of wiki leaks and we know that julian assange has been given asylum and has been in the ecuador embassy in the united kingdom and so it just seems like this is how it actually worked out and is snowden is on his way to ecuador it's quite ironic though isn't it korea the president there of ecuador isn't exactly renowned for his acceptance of freedom of speech has been stamping down a lot on political speech and freedom of the press so why do you think. snowden would go there but ironic when they're champions of free speech and censorship and anti censorship themselves. well as much as there are laws in ecuador that if i was living under i would probably have criticisms about the fact is that the united states government is going after bull songe and snowden and so they have looked for a place that they can go. that will fight back against the united states government
and give them protection so that they can continue to live out their lives because and these are separate cases here but just talking about snowden specifically he believes he blew the whistle on secret surveillance programs that the world needed to know about it revealed spying there's been congresspeople that confirmed revealed illegality and possible misconduct on the part of an essay and so he wanted to go someplace where he could continue to live out his life and so he was going to have to go to a country that may be adversarial toward the united states or you know may have policies that would be wrong for their own people but in the end he would be able to live his life without having to have any sort of problem because many would say why should he he's a traitor he's betrayed his own country surely he should be brought to account for what he's done that's something that the ecuador government is going to have to
take into consideration and one of the realities is that. snowden is charged with violating the espionage act those offenses are considered political offenses to the ecuador government and that was also the problem that the united states had with the hong kong government as well and so as we follow this saga as it continues to unfold one of the things that will be critical to pay attention to is how ecuador rationalizes granting snowden asylum and kevin just briefly many say he's a hero but has he not really highlighted what most of us are aware of anyway that maybe we we're being snooped told all the time when we're going on social media shopping online every movement is tracked anyway so what's the big fuss about what the government's doing in the name of national security the big problem is that snowden has started this this wide debate about surveillance policies of the united
states government officials in the obama administration and congress did not want to have out in the open and forced to talk about national security policies that they preferred to keep secret and so because he took that step they have made him public enemy number one and you know what if they were to be able to get him back in the united states there would be a harsh form of justice meted out against him the justice department where you would go after him just as delicately as they've gone after the other end of it as are the other seven individuals who have been charged under the espionage act by the obama administration which in turn based journalist kevin thank you very much indeed thanks for joining us live here in altie could hear what you say and while we continue with our coverage of the edward snowden story just after the break this is all to live in moscow as huff post.
anyone who lives in the us knows that the i.r.s. does not play around one honest or dishonest mistake could get you in a lot of trouble even a longtime friend of mine got his entire life savings destroyed due to some simple honest error you think that workers in an organization that could punish you for your financial failings would be very sharp with their own money but that's sadly not the case according to an audit report from the treasury inspector general for tax administration at the very least one thousand i.r.s. employees have abused the charge cards they were issued to cover their official travel expenses some of these people are very high on the ladder including an executive level official a criminal investigator and multiple blois with security clearances much of the abuses related to a place writing checks for big purchases which later bounced due to accounts being empty yeah the people who could ruin your life for one little financial folly seem to have no problem over drawing while they are living it up on taxpayer funded
travel to keep things in perspective the iris is a huge organization so one thousand abusers is a minority but in the spirit of fairness i think these card abusers should be punished just as harshly as normal people who run afoul of the i.r.s. but that's just my opinion. this is an update on our top story the america's most wanted n.s.a. whistleblower edward snowden as for many applying for political asylum. in ecuador and that's according to the country's foreign minister snowden is currently in
a moscow airport reportedly waiting to board a flight to cuba tomorrow off the name and this discuss newton's fate with norman solomon he's author and co-founder of action it's a civil action group norman shortly after exposing this n.s.a. surveillance scheme to the world snowden had this to say about the future let's have a listen to what he said at the cia i could have people come after me or any of their third party partner you know they would they work closely with a number of other nations and that's that's a fear i'll live under for the rest of my life however long that happens to be you can't come forward against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and be completely free from risk because they're such powerful adversaries the no one can meaningfully oppose them. if they want to get you they'll get you in time so you know them how far do you think washington is prepared to go to get this man. that's
a key question right now the political asylum process should be allowed to go thrower so that edward snowden can proceed to ecuador were apparently the government is ready to receive him on that basis i'm glad to be able to announce at this hour that the organization that i co-founded roots action dot org on the web that rig's actually work is a launching a international campaign based in the united states and the direct messages president obama hands off edward snowden as the and this demand which is already building on a petition of more than sixty thousand people who offend edward snowden is just saying to president obama that the u.s. government must not engage in any foul play kidnapping rendition for any other afeard to impede this legitimate process there of political asylum you know become and every one of those people supporting you you're going to have your critics on you because they will say that snowden has confessed to leaking classified
information which is a crime so washington does have every right to try and get him extradited and bring him to account many saying he's a traitor. well he's really a hero to so many americans but rather than the labels the key point is that you has brought truth to the necessity of a democratic process and of course people in the white house and many in congress are not happy about the illumination of they have been engaged in survey islands which is direct violation us civil liberties of the citizens of the united states as well as a violation of the privacy of people around the we're all so naturally the obama administration and the bike harness and security state fans on capitol hill want to grab. snowden they want him in u.s. custody so he can be cut off from the news media and treated we can assume what
about the way in which the army whistleblower bradley manning has been treated in terrible conditions and degradation bordering on torture if not over the line so of course people in washington would like to grab edward snowden and shut him up putting the civil rights aside what about civil protection automatic and safe because the security agencies have access to information that could possibly may be endangering national security and personal security. well people sometimes argue that the safest way for citizens is to live in a police state and if you want to live in lock down where you have no rights and november days then perhaps we are going to be made that that's a safe way to live but we have in the united states a sacred tradition of the first amendment a freedom of speech the fourth amendment privacy the bill of rights that edward snowden has built just for as many of us are fighting for and again it roots action
dot org we're watching this campaign at this hour i have to have so it is a fundamental conflict between those who are dominating the u.s. government now who want to suppress the bill of rights and resistance not about resistance from many of us who say no way we do not accept the suppression of our rights norman solomon author and co-founder of roots action independent initiative thank you very much indeed for your time live on. thank you well the arm waving support of many u.s. companies for the government surveillance program is leading to some difficult questions on these loose a couple of looks at what might be in it for those big firms. we know now that thousands of companies have been sharing sensitive information with the u.s. government in exchange for various benefits now this raises concerns about the extent of the private sector collaboration with the u.s. government not to mention questions about what exactly those benefits were now the
details may be murky at this point but let's go over exactly what information we have companies who did hand over data to the government got a big thank you that's according to michael hayden who used to head the cia as well as the national security agency which runs of course the prism program and mr hayden told bloomberg this if i were the director and had a relationship with a company who was doing things that were not just directed by law but were also valuable to the defense of the republic i would go out of my way to thank them and give them a sense as to why this is necessary and useful all right well what kind of thank you exactly are we talking about here well again not a lot of details but anonymous sources did tell bloomberg that leaders of the companies who handed over data to the government were showered with attention and information by government agencies in fact in some instances that meant quick warnings about the threats that could affect their bottom line for example serious internet attacks and who's behind them of course this exchange of information is
supposed to be voluntary and well at this point we don't exactly have evidence that this is not the case but well most of the companies seem to have participated simply because the government asking for help one former c.e.o. paints a slightly different picture in two thousand and one when some telecom giants allegedly were asked to participate in an n.s.a. information sharing program one company qwest initially refused to play ball and according to court documents filed by its then c.e.o. joseph nacho as a result of that decision the company was denied lucrative n.s.a. contracts he believed to be worth fifty to one hundred million dollars which allegation he says for refusing to partake in the government's spy program. so to sum it up companies that share data earned government goodwill information about threats possible classified information and of course there's concern that those who did not play along could could have been left out of lucrative government
contracts of course we don't have more information on this but that's person i see the point the lack of transparency about this data swap is a major concern now it's done in the name of security but at what cost and to whom this account for reporting for our team in moscow will continue with our coverage of the edward snowden story about twenty minutes from now here in r.t. but stay with us in the meantime as we now talk to trailblazing whistle blower william binney about just how far u.s. intelligence reaches into private life and the consequences for the general public that's coming away after a short break. plenty . of cretaceous free in-store charges free. arrangement free. free. free. gold free blog videos. free media. tom.
i'm sitting here with mr william benny he's a thirty two year veteran of the n.s.a. who helped design a top secret program he says broadly changed american personal data and he actually helped crack those codes and enter into this he is now a whistleblower mr benny thank you so much for joining me so first of all let's talk about the latest information that has come out from this n.s.a. spying on americans well first of all the the pfizer warrant that was issued to the f.b.i. to get data from verizon. that's that's been going on according to the paper anyway since not a two thousand and seven and this is like being renewed every three months so if you look at the top corner top right corner of that order it's thirteen dash eighty that means it's the eightieth order since in this year of two thousand and thirteen so when you start to say well what are the other seventy nine orders you can figure other companies and and this is like the second order of two thousand and thirteen
for each company so you know that maximum you would divide eighty by two and maximum number of companies that could be involved in this kind of order would be forty. so but i'm sure that there are other other things that they have other orders that they're issuing other than just this kind for the service providers or the telecoms so let's talk about the nine internet companies that said that they are part of this this prison program should americans really be surprised at this but i'm not that's for sure. but i would point out that. the n.s.a. had deployed naris devices in it's in court documents submitted by mark klein documenting the n.s.a. room in the in the san francisco bay t.n.t. building where they had naris devices in a splitter that basically duplicated the fiber optic lines and would send him down to pass all the information went down two directions one of them went to the
nearest devices in the n.s.a. room and so those nervous devices could take everything off that fiber optic line. which meant they could get one nearest insight device can do ten gigabits a second which meant it could reassemble a quarter and a million and a half and a quarter one thousand character emails a second and that's the kind of input they would get from one device now i'm sure they have multiple devices at multiple sites in the country as well as other places in the world so that's an awful lot of data to try to manage and so they need to do things like build bluffdale to plan for the future so they have lots of storage for all this data coming in so how far down the rabbit hole are we are we really just at the tip of the iceberg in terms of their spying with this prison program coming out in the horizon records tim clemente who is an ex f.b.i. agent came on c.n.n. about a week or two ago and he said that any digital data wasn't wasn't saying.