tv Headline News RT June 24, 2013 4:00pm-4:31pm EDT
coming up on r t the man who revealed the n.s.a. is expanding surveillance program is on the move from china to russia it's anyone's guess now where edward snowden is and where he's headed we'll take a look at the n.s.a. whistle blowers global track ahead and it's not only the u.s. justice system that's in hot pursuit of snowden the media is following this man of mystery and his international track as well but how well are journalists covering this story and what side are they taking we'll take a look coming up. a growing number of people are supporting edward snowden despite the u.s. government charging him under the espionage act it seems some world governments still have his back that story later in the show i.
it's monday four pm in washington d.c. i'm megan lopez and you are watching our team while on the run the admitted n.s.a. leaker edward snowden is finding for freedom flying from country to country and in attempt to avoid extradition to the us let's quickly recap how we got here late last week we found out that federal prosecutors in for ginia had filed charges against snowden those charges include a theft of government property giving national defense information to someone without a script carry clearance and revealing classified information about communications intelligence the latter two charges are considered acts of espionage which could result in the life sentence or even execution on saturday night word that the thirty year old had boarded a plane headed toward moscow with plans to quickly leave for a third unknown destination his car whereabouts are unknown as is his final destination. joining me now to talk in-depth about the fate of this is an essay
leaker on possible outcomes for him i'm joined by john holzman president john c. holzman enterprises from berlin and here in our d.c. studio is former cia analyst ray mcgovern let's start with you in your opinion what is was edward snowden's decision to go on the run to go to all these different country countries a wise decision. well from his point of view i would say it is an excellent decision he has lots of examples to look at look at what happened to bradley manning eight eight full months of torture at the hands of the us marines i mean that's that's something that i wouldn't look forward to the prospect that some people have it used that he could have gone through channels well just look at the channels they were all over the sunday t.v. shows and those channels are pretty pretty arrogant and pretty much oppressive so when he talks about having a personal hand in this architecture of oppression i mean shows the man has
a conscience it shows that when he swore an oath to defend and protect the constitution united states against all enemies foreign and domestic well you know he means to abide by that oath but at the same time doesn't float us by the government are good argument the government narrative that he broke the law well you know there's a great day should avoid breaking ok now you have a security from a spree all digital security products we site that we can want that that's how you get access to classified information but there are ethicists call supervening values you know one of those is the constitution united states sense and expressly the fourth amendment that supervening value supersedes and renders it in operative in my view a case a promise to keep secrets you promise to keep secrets not of crimes but of the legitimate national security information now in john talked about the idea of shopping around for countries to grant asylum i mean is that what edward snowden is
doing here and is it legal under international law. well again i don't think really international laws operative here i mean let's go back to the facts of the head of the intelligence community want to ask bluntly the just the other week is the united states spying on its own citizens said no mr snowden snapped and said well actually they are. it seems to me that this is what's motivating him and i think why this is really dividing the country if you look at polling so far is that he's quoting the founders back to these people he's doing this for reasons that don't seem to have anything to do with money or aggrandizement or fame or frankly even much of an agenda and so while he shops for countries and seems to be heading perhaps to ecuador the reality is that i don't think this is going to go away this story has legs precisely because we seem to have bumped into an honest man now snowden had a ticket for a flight heading to cuba on aero fiat flight one hundred fifty he was scheduled to
sit in seat seventeen a but it was in fact empty i think we actually might have an image of that empty seat now that c. was empty however our t. correspondent you are pissed going off was on that flight here's how he describes the scene onboard. so far of mr snowden has not been seen i personally haven't seen him point but definitely something out of the ordinary is happening just judging by the security yourself and well of course the amount of media is really astonishing clearly i think it's it doesn't feel for journalists who are also on this flight now for a talk about some of the international implications of a person jumping from country to country like that well the more interesting realities here are the fact that the united states of america is acting like well on the one hand like
a great big bully. warning all these countries don't give any incentive or you don't let him come to your country and they have acting like a sort of poking like a two year old you know i'm so embarrassed this is terrible and what are revealed to me is what i would call the metaphor here and metaphor is that with all the billions of dollars that general alexander and all those people have you know to snoop to make sure they know where a fellow like snowden is well just as clever people just as clever people in the embassy in ecuador. and elsewhere around cooperated with wiki leaks so for those people are out wishing. the vast complex here the architecture of oppression and i think most americans when they realize what's going on since we're usually for the end of dog i think will be very satisfied if if edward snowden comes out of that. bathroom on that plane and shows were told oppressions isn't free now john in his
on camera interview with the guardian's glenn greenwald snowden said that he is not running away from the u.s. justice system but that he believes he can do more good from outside of jail than he can do from within it do you think that that justification stands two weeks after he made that statement yeah i do because i mean at the moment while there's the furer about this we have no idea how many more implications and leaks he has to go about what's going on here he's selectively been leaking things as we go as he goes i think there's a lot more to come the n.s.a. basically data mined on conversations both of foreigners as they admitted but also of american citizens and i imagine there's more to come i think the nightmare for the security complex in america is if ten percent of the people that they hire as contractors have libertarian tendencies and then ten percent of those people actively do something about it i don't think edward snowden is an isolated case i
think this is the reality when the government takes a cruise too much power without thinking through the realities of what goes on i think all you need are ten to fifteen percent of the people who are disturbed to do something and i think they're going to be a lot more edward snowden's in the future and so as president obama said rather lamely we have a real discussion in the country about the balance between security and liberty and that's what needs to happen that's why this story has legs and that's the fundamental question frankly of all governments right now and edward snowden is not the only person to take flight from the u.s. justice system where he leaks founder julian assange has been holed up in the ecuadorian embassy in london for over a year today he spoke with r.t. about the case of edward snowden take a look. the current status of which to start and. retire of some. context. i cannot give.
information out of their. whereabouts or circumstances other than. morning with the secretary of state scolding traitor. that was. a traitor is not a spy. he was told the public an important truth. earlier you had mentioned that edward snowden had no other outlets to possibly to go through in order to leak this information to get this kind of truth out now i know lawmakers that several lawmakers are arguing otherwise do you care to explain that the same a little further yes it's very simple there is no there is no whistleblower protection for people the national security apparatus including contractors of our government pure and simple we have tried to get that through congress is x.
that out every time we try to get that through with good training for sixteen years now there is no whistleblower protection and finally john what should we make of edward snowden's flight to these countries is there any one lesson that we can learn from all of the. well i think there is me and i think you know mr stone seems to know its founders and benjamin franklin pretty much got it right if you're willing to give up your liberty to have security you should have neither and i think this really does go back to first principles about the united states and why it was founded i'm an unabashed american patriot and frankly this is been the argument at the base of the country since its beginning and rather than side with a bunch of people who basically lied to us in effect the john le carre line stance who's watching the waters these are people who told us several weeks ago they weren't spying on americans who turned out were spying on americans and now their defense is trust me frankly that doesn't that doesn't pass muster and it should in
a country like the united states or any other country indeed so i think stone's argument is really the argument of the age edward snowden is the eighth person being charged under the espionage act under the obama administration that would john that was john holzman president of the john c. holzman enterprises and former cia analyst ray mcgovern thank you so much for joining us as well. now as i had mentioned earlier very little is known about snowden's current whereabouts and his final destination there has been a lot of speculation about iceland ecuador venezuela and cuba governments the public and the media have all been pursuing this man trying to restrain his steps and then predict his next move for more on the logistics of this whole case r.t. correspondent liz wahl takes us around the world. well edward snowden is on the move and well as whereabouts remain unknown let's take a look at where snowden has bed and where he could be going let's start off here
near honolulu hawaii where snowden lived with his girlfriend they reportedly moved out of this home on may first real estate agents say they left nothing behind on may twentieth caring for a laptop computer snowden arrived in hong kong after exposing secret u.s. surveillance programs to the guardian and the washington post while he was hiding away up in a hotel room here in hong kong the first report on snowden's leak was released june fifth just four days later he gave the guardian permission to reveal his identity while in hiding here the u.s. revoked his passport in charge snowden with the with espionage despite the u.s. effort to get hong kong to hand snowden over yesterday june twenty third hong kong allowed him to get on a plane to moscow this afternoon the white house press secretary jay carney said he believes snowden is still there and he said washington is in contact with moscow and expects russia to examine the options available to them and here is the aeroflot plane at the airport in moscow today that was supposed to carry snowden to
a flight to havana cuba he reportedly had a seat booked seventeen seat reporters onboard said he was not on the flight so where in the world could he be able to next well as we reported on friday and as lambic businessmen with ties to the whistle blowing web site wiki leaks said he had a private plane ready to bring snowden from hong kong to islip but that didn't happen but according to wiki leaks founder julian assange snowden has requested asylum there so that could be a possibility there are also reports that snowden may fly through venezuela or cuba why would he go there well as we know the u.s. relationship with these countries is shaky to say the least it's unlikely that either of these countries will comply with the u.s. extradition requests and it's possible that snowden is ultimately trying to get to act. doored so don has requested asylum there the foreign minister of ecuador says he's received snowden's request for asylum and is analyzing it again it's unclear where exactly snowden will end up as this story is developing by the moment in
washington liz wall. now according to the un convention relating to the status of refugees and its one nine hundred sixty seven amendment if edward snowden wants to be considered a refugee he must first prove two things first that he has a well founded fear of persecution based on his political opinions and second that his crime was either non serious or politically charged now on the first point snowden may be able to prove that he is being persecuted by the verbal assaults that he has received from one u.s. lawmaker after another meanwhile guardian reporter glenn greenwald who broke the n.s.a. surveillance story is also in the spotlight take a look at how this case is unfolding in the media. to the extent that you have aided and abetted snowden even in his current movements why shouldn't you mr green will be charged with a crime i think it's pretty extraordinary that anybody who would call themselves a journalist would publicly muse about whether or not other journalists should be
charged with felonies the russians right now or playing games with those they clearly have the ability to turn them over to chose three countries so far that we now have china russia and possibly cuba these are three places that are notorious for spying on their own set as and you know he gets into a country that's hostile to the u.s. when i get them back and he's picked one of three you know he could have gone to cuba venezuela or or ecuador three most hostile to the u.s. in central and south america so how is the media doing in this conference of this case all for more i'm joined by erik wemple he's a media critic out the washington post thank you so much for joining me so let's start off with your overall impressions of how the media is doing well i think the media has taken some criticism from snowden and other people for trivializing snowden's person sort of getting distracted but i think actually it's been a pretty good vessel for a serious debate about privacy if you know for about three weeks now all the. pages
and the television airwaves the filled up with a lot of back and forth is this a huge privacy problem. it's been going back and forth is you a traitor is a hero those are awfully simplistic terms but there's been a lot of substantive discussion going well here remember a time at least in the person for years where privacy has a more thorough screening in the public now talk about the idea of different outlets covering this obviously there are certain republican allies are certain democratic outlets is there any ones that you could say are really hitting the marker or not hitting the mark well it's interesting that. since this issue since privacy is sort of a bipartisan issue there's a there's a there's there's a strain on the left. on the left side of the political spectrum that doesn't like what's happening there's also a strain there's a libertarian strain on the right that doesn't like it so it's been a fairly sort of a. kind of a fantastic mishmash on that front you have you know sort of like media
organizations that are traditionally conservative they hate what the obama administration has been doing and the federal government's been doing and you have that's on the left that are doing the same so it's been just just just sort of mind boggling and head spinning to watch as these various organizations they all fail so often times saying the same thing have you seen any cases of media bias or are has it been pretty even keel well i think the main issue of bias here is the one that sort of came up with a sort of surfaced yesterday in the clip that david gregory going greenwald clip yesterday in which you saw the saw as a lot of people interpreted kind of a bias against glenn greenwald he's been an activist he has been very outspoken very opinionated in his feelings about the government and privacy in national security so they kind of think that going green was an activist and and therefore that he sort of hedges his views on edward snowden and on the n.s.a. and everything and he's not perhaps the most objective person to be presenting the news so i guess it is if there's
a bias question that is one certainly one of the foremost and that was the next topic out on talking about is glenn greenwald and this kind of back and forth that he had with the meet the press that day meet the press david gregory right now some lawmakers have said that he should be prosecuted for aiding and abetting the enemy because they say that he's not a journalist because if expressed opinion so my first question is what qualifies as a journalist was i think that you know we're always sort of refurbishing renovating our opinion of what just just what a journalist i think certainly in this case glenn greenwald more than qualified he's presented a public documents. to to the american public in context you may disagree with him but his facts have been. basically more or less on target he has presented documents which have not been debunked which have not been declared fall so i mean i think that he has done the journalist job of bringing forth information that we wouldn't have had otherwise and kicked off an enormous as i say an enormous debate
about privacy and the government's role in protecting our national security and whatever trait of the president obama so it's there i mean i think that has been central so i don't think that there's any way to sort of greenwald work as a journalist in this case sure he has an opinion he has a point of view but that does not incompatible with present the facts so you don't think that he should or well be prosecuted by by the u.s. justice department well from what i know i certainly don't think that glenn greenwald should be prosecuted no from what i know i mean he has taken leaks from a person who has very important documents on national security and has published them the washington post has done the same thing fewer people if any have question whether the washington post has been an activist or whether it should be you know. should be prosecuted on this of course was imposed has not quite as many exclusive is going green one doesn't have quite
a relationship with edward snowden that glenn greenwald does but still i mean you know the new york times i believe it was their executive editor jill abramson's was quoted i believe by her public editors as being somewhat envious of the story that other outlets of had every news organization in the country wanted this story so i mean the notion that we should be prosecuting journalists over this is just insane i mean that's that's that's tyranny we just have thirty seconds left but should journalists be afraid of the obama administration. well i think there's documentary evidence to that effect they should certainly be wary of the obama administration i mean look what they did with the a.p. and with james rosen and fastens in both cases they secretly eavesdrop. droolers. we don't like no one should i mean no one should have the emails or the phone calls looked at by the government. in any way. without notice erik wemple
a media critic at the washington post thank you so much for joining us. edward snowden's a vision from the u.s. justice system has bigger devil magic implications than one man escaping a possible jail sentence this case has turned into a game of diplomatic hot potato and the country this man steps foot in faces the full force of the u.s. government his presence deeply strained relations between the nations that could affect how these countries deal with each other moving forward now in the case of china both hong kong and beijing are being homed it for allowing a snowden to escape in the case of russia snowden's presence could potentially undo all of the progress that was made in the g eight summit and during the boston marathon bombing investigation but why are these nations and others choosing to go along with america's demands for extradition for a wider look at the international implications political commentator sam sachs explains. last week the department of justice was working closely with officials in hong kong their plan to have edward snowden arrested and brought back to the united
states to face espionage charges today we know that plan didn't work out and we've now seen other governments around the world appear unwilling to do the bidding of the united states into a rest snowden and we have an idea as to why now let's begin in hong kong which allowed snowden to leave over the weekend and a press release on sunday the government of hong kong said requests from the u.s. to arrest snowden quote did not fully comply with legal requirements under hong kong law but hong kong also included this curious statement in that same press release suggesting there is another reason why they let snowden go it said the hong kong government has formally written to the u.s. government requesting clarification on early reports that the hacking of computer systems in hong kong by u.s. government agencies the hong kong government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of hong kong as in if you wanted us to comply with your arrest warrant well maybe you should have been
secretly hacking us the new york times reports that china which was also subject to u.s. hacking made the ultimate call to let snowden leave on kong the dust up over the u.s. granting asylum to chinese dissident chen guangcheng last year well that could have been a motive a motivating factor in that decision to now on to russia which says it couldn't arrest snowden since he never officially entered russian territory and remained in the airport as a traveller but you might remember snowden revealed last week that the n.s.a. spied on former russian president dmitri medvedev during the g. twenty summit in two thousand and nine so there's that and then there's cuba here which has been mentioned as a possible layover destination for snowden on his trip to asylum. maybe an economic embargo of more than fifty years and repeated attempts to assassinate their head of state might influence cuba's decision to look the other way if snowden winds up
there and finally there's ecuador that is the reported destination for snowden in a country that has already granted political asylum to wiki leaks founder julian assange watch now listen to what ecuador's foreign minister ricardo patino said today about how the u.s. might react to his country granting snowden asylum. it's necessary to note that the united states as a sovereign government has received various extradition requests on the half of the ecuadorian government for individuals particularly bankers in ecuador that have been charged in our country and according to their laws have made decisions in many cases of not extraditing those who have committed crimes against millions of ecuadorians but senior was referring to the as a us brothers who are convicted of an bezel mint and who the ecuadorian government has blamed for crashing their economy in the one nine hundred ninety s. costing ecuador more than eight billion dollars and there is a us brothers are living a cushy lifestyle in coral gables florida as the united states ignores ecuador's
calls for extradition. so what's happening here is the united states wants other nations to grant extradition that the united states itself has been unwilling to grant in the past and the u.s. wants other nations that it's spied on and nations it's attempted to destabilize in the past to now do it a favor when it comes to arresting snowden. many officials and pundits in the united states of should these governments war just because they hate the united states or because they hate freedom but the reality is much more complicated and much more inconvenient for the united states and it has to do with blowback in a rapidly decreasing american hegemony all around the world it washington. while the edward snowden saga is playing out overseas right here at home the new information is coming out about the justice department using a secret search warrant in order to obtain the entire contents of g. mail accounts owned by two former wiki leaks volunteers the one was issued back in
two thousand and eleven for her words nor a sentence mari mccarthy they were icelandic activists and snore assen helped manage wiki leaks secure chat room back in two thousand and ten here's what the warrant collected the contents of all you mails associated with the account including stored or preserved copies of the emails sent to and from the accounts draft e-mails deleted e-mails e-mails preserved pursuant to a request made under that eighteen u.s.c. two seven zero three f. the source and destination addresses associated with each e-mail the date and time at which each e-mail was sent and the size and length of each e-mail and that's not all it also collected information on address books buddy list colander data pictures and more it should also be noted that snore ascend and mccarthy resigned from wiki leaks in two thousand and ten one with numerous other employees after julia saunders decided to publish some three hundred ninety two thousand classified
documents from the iraq war without properly redacting them now this is not the first time the u.s. has gone after people who are presently or were previously associated with wiki leaks however it is the first time the public is seeing documentation about what the u.s. government is doing who they are targeting when it comes to foreign citizens in its investigation into the wiki leaks organization. u.s. citizen jacob jacob apple bomb had his e-mails to period by a subpoena by the department of justice previously he gave an address on behalf of a songe at a hacker conference in new york city back in two thousand and ten and of course the most notorious person being pursued is bradley manning whose trial continues in fort meade maryland later this week and that's going to do it for now for more on the stories we covered go to youtube dot com slash r t america and field latest and greatest information coming out from around your world including this n.s.a. leaker case check out our web site r t dot com slash usa and don't forget to follow me on twitter at meghan underscore lopez stay tune prime interest is next.
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good afternoon and welcome to prime interest i'm perry and washington d c and here's the prime headlines that we're tracking today. daily fisher house who left the bank of israel he might be heading to the federal reserve but guess who will be taking his place at the b.o.i. a j. p. morgan exaggerated. take up frankel's second term at the helm of the shekel after spending three with the too big to fail over involving door the trilateral commission member and holder of the rockefeller rockefeller and outage here at the university of chicago some big shoes to fill but don't worry because as vice chairman of a i.g. he was able to secure one hundred eighty three billion dollars from the federal reserve and treasurer.