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tv   The Big Picture With Thom Hartmann  RT  November 19, 2013 9:00pm-10:01pm EST

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larry king now the u.k. musical sensation cher lloyd you don't want to be a superstar i'm not asking to be a superstar i think it would be really nice to see you this young twenty year old arguing with these masters right i was sixteen at the time so i was crazy that are you a brat. i wouldn't sound a bronze i'm very passionate plus i don't think i have a tool. like this all next on larry king now. we welcome to larry king now cher lloyd she is
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a british musical sensation her debut album sticks and stones shot to number four on the u.k. charts and number nine on the billboard hot two hundred shares sophomore album is due out later this year and it's called sorry i'm late your single want you back when multi platinum and you're not old enough to drink right you're twenty well i am old enough in the u.k. hall show if you want to drink over the pond go right over that you're a rough singer. i rap on some of my tracks but really i'm a singer i don't take the rap thing too seriously because most singers who sing yeah don't rap now why do you read this because i found it so funny. it's funny to me you write the song yeah so for me to do it just seems really funny it's more like fast talking that's what i read i sub usually does it i would say is music because it's it's full yeah but you can come it home or up
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the poem or restructuring home or a. car you were discovered on the x. factor in the u.k. tell me about the addition of the actual the auditioned it was a very enjoy it will experience for me are lined up in a line of like thousands of people i wanted to leave that day because i was very impatient. and my mom told me to stay so i went on stage and i did it and i got through which a lot of us are wait a long long time the reason is that we tell you right there is three auditions before you actually do the auditions is a priori decision or the reason there's three of them. and do that first addition to that and stay the rest of the day to the next one and the next one is crazy was
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simon cowell at the auditions at the first audition now what's your relationship with him like i don't respect her anymore i mean i left his label bucky year and a half ago and i got my record deal here was he angry i don't think so i mean i wouldn't say angry i would like to think that he misses me now i would think it was disappointed maybe. what was your relationship like when you were talking i think he found me. i would say disobedient i'm told a little bit here because i have a specific thing that i am reaching for so i have my own idea of how i'm going to get it your agenda yeah i mean you know we all have
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a specific thing in life that we want to get to and i don't deal very well with you know people have in control who's yet big there are control freaks so yeah this is from for free yeah it does just i don't deal well what is your goal. my goal is to not you know reach crazy excess it's more like being happy with the success but sustain and keeping it i think that's probably the toughest thing you know because you can be so successful but then it all drops away i think it's more about keeping it to me so you don't want to be a superstar i'm not asking to be a superstar i think it would be really nice. but you don't want to go to your head no you said old get this right by the way you finished fourth on the show right.
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and one direction finish third yeah for both of you a bit of normal people finish first and second. funny game for you of the comment you said that you are an absolute nightmare doing the expect during the x. factor days would you mean i mean in the way that. i wanted to say i didn't want the drama around it i didn't want to million downstairs on the stage with me and it may not have been the freedom to express myself it was certain things like that that i couldn't control the format yeah they would get in my way of doing exactly what i wanted to do so your vision young twenty year old boy arguing with these masters right i was sixteen at the time so i was crazy then i mean i i have a better understanding for everything now you know i mean the stand i can't always get what i want but there's certain ways to achieve at least
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a little bit of it did they ever try to throw you off the show you know you two good. yeah or now you're breaking into the u.s. market is that difficult is it difficult to cross the pond i think the most difficult part about it is sticking to it you know i'm so far away from home that it doesn't you know that that's not home anymore it's become a really strange thing for me and i think of thing here if like year and a half and it's like you have to be here to do it you know i can't be in the u.k. and try and make my songs go all right to go from the you right you have not to be on the scene here and i think sometimes that's why i feel that this is maybe haven't got what they wanted from the u.s. is because they haven't been here you're on labels with l.a. reid and he runs a big record yeah he's also a strong figure. what is it easier to dealing with him than with simon.
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it's much more. connected with his artists you know he deals he deals one on one with the artist you know so if there's ever a problem for me i'll call him up and i'll be like you know what's going on like why isn't this happening or you know i'm not happy with this and he will deal with it himself which is something that it's somebody who is quite amazing really you know with someone who has so much success but still he keeps doing all the stuff that he used to do the beginning so you have no record of him yet or have you i have yeah i mean the album the eyeball over here the first album it was already prepackaged to stitch in stone yet so. i think l.a. wanted to put his own stamp on it is so i recorded
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a couple of songs in addition in addition to put on it yeah is it true that you call your fans breaths yeah choir. because simon called me and. i was his number one brock and i was difficult to work with and he really enjoyed it i think he enjoyed the challenge of me so that's why my fans in our profits are you a breath i wouldn't sam a bra i'm very passionate but i'm not a bra are you difficult to deal with as religious of not now i don't feel like i am now i think i now have a different insight into you know exactly what i want and i need you and i'm sure that you are not so aggressive. of your parents reacted to all this because i don't think they quite understand it. and i tried to explain to them i think the hardest thing with with you know being in my position and my parents being so far
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away is that trying to explain to them to i don't have a minute in the day is that all according to most legal code in yeah by me doing personal appearances and you were yeah i mean you are too old to so often mellow. irony of a did wrong club and ally and it frightened me that you're used to the studio i'm just used to the thing with me although i'm twenty i am not a party person and i'd much rather sit down in a quiet environment and how have a conversation with someone then it to be so loud that you can't hear a thing and some may call that boren by just that's not my scene i really hate the party scene your new single is i wish with the famous rapper t.i. we're nervous about working with him and how to go. it went extremely well but
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with with many features that happen you know with different artists you don't always get the record with them when your in one place they're another yeah i mean that's how most of time it goes down did you record with t i know i did i'd already already finished the song and then he added his version he added his first year you know when i met him on the video shit. and it was a very interesting experience what do you think in what way. i think it's interest in to me an artiste. it's so very happy and content he is so very laid back like i can't wait to be that person that's in this part of your new album when will the album come out well here's the situation i don't think i've ever talked like this before because i
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think as an artist you try and protect other people you know within the company or with or whatever so long fortunately i'm not like that so you know me i'm going to tell you that my album got pushed back and i'm not happy about it it's all done it's all done but i am currently in the studio for the rest of this week just trying to find some more magick but wait a minute the album's done yeah they pushed it back to a different release date yeah from window one it was meant to be coming out in november and they push it to work now i think it's going to be early next year they tell you why because i've still got off on that magic so you're not happy with it i was hoping to get something to my found so you know i just feel like it's been
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way too long but i know you can't rush you can't rush something that's going to be right you want to release though of course but do you agree that means more magic i think the much excel ready there so did you tell l.a. reid that of cool off and what did he say he said just go try he wants you to do more disco try and i'll always open to try in but i when i think i know i know is this with different numbers or he wants to do the same number over no different he wants me to go right so so he wants a different selections here and where it where you stand i see you as you have to do that it's his company right of course i mean. it's just about trying different stuff and i mean i think this thing of going back to is sort of taking my u.k. vibe and trying to bring i would see us now which has proven to be
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a little difficult what's it like living in l.a. for you so i'll be honest please i like you and i don't like it or don't feel like that it isn't home it's not home but it's full of pre-pay people really are pretty people and very polite you made some friends i can't make friends you know. can't make friends why i'm just never around. you know i said difficult for me to make a friend and you i'm happy share no no you're a you're alone you don't like domingo you don't want to take it you don't want to socialize you haven't made me friends you miss home if you're pissed because you're album isn't coming in november they're pushing it the next year and they want you to do was stuff you know well so sometimes i am but i'm happy i got i'm still all
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k. really pissed off when we come back how a small town english girl catapulted to stardom to get personal we shared that like we have been already.
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crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want. well that was cheryl i admit when sorry i relate wish right away is an appropriately named title since they don't lay putting it out till next year the album will be late for first album was it sticks and stones cher lloyd grew up in melbourne a small town in england
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a population of twenty nine thousand when did you know you wanted the. singer i knew i wanted to be a single well mom my mom and dad bought me this karaoke machine for christmas and i adored it so much. and i sang on it and i just felt great and that's when i will . i'm still in like seven or i really you knew that soon yeah. but i was bought up to be a realist hey i was always told to get a plum day you know bat i get to go but every so often but the problem is you know my parents if three hours away from it on didn't so when i'm working in london i can't just drive three hours. you know when to take time out of my work to go up this is really painful when i go back and i can't see them i mean the same country you are called see you are you dating i have
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a fiance yeah. now we want to know where you have a fiance yeah i'm about to get married yeah what does he do he is my has stylist you're marrying you're his yeah that's nice to you met him by doing you're here here i walked into a solemn one day and he kindly took me out for a cigarette away from popper at sea and that's how it all began when you when you be married hopefully by next year. do you think you're too young to be married. some may think cell i don't feel it well you're mature beyond pluto yes but you worry about peaking too early there's a danger you know early success. i have thought about that you know i've thought about that so much like you know if it all happens now that can be dangerous most
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definitely i want to get your thoughts of some of the musical stars just european yes miley cyrus i think she's fearless taylor swift possibly the most nice person i've ever met justin bieber. pippa collect is a bit of pillock sometimes what does that mean to let this to lay on britney spears i grew up listening to her music coming to is always going to be a legend to may share. was named after a i gather. so obviously your parents looked on you as some sort of showbusiness if they mean to share her through right if i get the oldest of four kids you don't have any friends you didn't have a typical of bringing right you know living in los angeles you miss all men now
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you're engaged yeah you want children definitely well you want it all don't you share oh i do and i will try my best to get it right now what are they going to do with this the additions that make you know you're doing different jobs now different here i was in the studio last night till twelve. just every single day going back and tried so different but i think i'm on to something and i'm happy about that so even than the maybe it is a good thing maybe maybe eighty mr reed knows something he does know a lot and i think sometimes when we tell things out of course he's right i mean he's been doing this for how long i'm twenty years old i don't know a person and i can't act like i know if it's it sometimes i have to be like ok when did you get tattooed when i was sixteen why it's quite funny though because. all the kids in my high school were getting pregnant and mom said hey we are not having
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a kid you can go get a tattoo. is your fiance tattooed oh yeah. how do you choose what the ones we can see and you have daddy on one hand i have a little. i'm cut it you know why but i mean really why not because girls were getting pregnant in high school because one i'm in control of it and no one can tell me what i can or cannot put on my skin i love. really love it and to feel like it is a style same for me i was going to be honest i love the way i look and three i feel like certain things have happened to me so far that i have i have are all me kind of explains it that you can the hell that is oh it has syria
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really hurt actually that's why no jews would do it. by the way be you as a brit do you have to care about the royal family. i'll tell you i don't think everyone in the u.k. has to cat but we want to why. because we're seven lucky do you not think to have something so regal huge err i mean but they don't do anything i mean they don't write them they think they do i think i think they do they have no power i'm not sure about that are you happy about the baby i was happy about the baby i think it's great that she had a baby. but i'm not into you know i was searching for the first baby pictures and stuff i'm really not that type of person it's like congratulations that's great lies you have to see the first pictures now i grew to ok we have some social media
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questions for you ok or keep it back now on facebook what song are you most proud of them was i wrote a song called good night about my dad and i'm really proud of it says very open very honest and i felt like an artist a real artist you know goodnight it was like saying goodbye or kind of as a kid every single not my dad kissed me goodnight without fail and i would never go up to bed and go to sleep without you know going over to his chair and happened him kissed me goodnight. just a childhood memory for me and when i left home now stopped and felt with nice dave darling we have facebook wants to know what your most fantastic moment in your young life has been so far i think my most fantastic moment was going back on the expect to perform one of my songs where they brought you back as
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a previous for you finished for they bring you back yeah they brought me back and i signed my own song and it just felt like i had accomplished something you know i was one of those contestants and i went back and did my own thing understand that completely scotty boy for what art is from earlier generations of inspired you i have such a huge love for dolly parton so do i i love you great girl we've had her on many times and actually studied via facebook wants to know how you feel about all of the white female rappers like amy from carmen bicom is a musical duo and here you are both with epic rikon the empathy i feel about them. i think it's great i mean music has been free and open i feel and whatever you know laying you choose who you are you want to go down that's great i mean i don't
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cost myself as a rapper ato like i said i think it's funny to me but you appreciate them i appreciate it yeah it's him stilton i see for wants to know what's the best thing about being a celebrity the best thing about being a celebrity stop the saying i. hate to be called a celebrity that's the best thing about it that you hate to be called. no but i just dislike to be called a celebrity see myself a son but you will be this going to be a big star in america it's coming here with the right label they probably believe this correctly because they want everything to be perfect yeah if you understand perfection oh yes you're a bit of a control freak you're so i am so when control freaks deal with control freak shit i have this at home every day it's not easy. at five aussie boys what's the one thing you can't live without the one thing
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a college without hopping a. good answer we play a little game if you only knew your mother the first boy you have a kissed here what was his name i don't want to say why no no no no just his first name was it eric donald philip though it was just a little peck on the cheek that was just really strange and i hated it oh it was a school yeah i was in the all school it was ok good. guilty pleasure was a pleasure you enjoyed it we maybe not know about breaking that obsessed with that show yeah well i've only got a few left and it's got to the point that i am prolonging it and i'm thinking you know maybe friday will be the best day to do that because you know i'll be i'll be really you know ready for on friday and then i can watch that this i just don't
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want to i just don't want that and want to come i don't want to have to watch site . oh what's the biggest misconception about england misconception about england i think everyone thinks everyone's really posh over there yeah people think that us not like. you have a celebrity crush is there some. no movie star you never had any crush on what keeps you up at night what keeps me up i analyze my work brando a musician your fans would be surprise you listen to a lot the arctic monkeys favorite thing about los angeles sunshine good and if you could live anywhere else where would it be if i could live anywhere else anywhere in the world when i go desert island i would figure that from you. if you weren't a musician what would you be. i'd like to be i would have liked to have been at
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play so. share your amazing young lady you're going to be a tremendous hit thank you thank you thanks to our guest cher live and look out for her album sorry i'm late it will be early next year a little late. but you'll love it and you can find me on twitter at kings things will see that stuff. plus time of the new alert animation scripts scare me a little bit. there is breaking news tonight and we are continuing to follow the breaking news we need. alexander's family cry tears
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of joy great things rather than. get a quart of wall around online is a story made for a movie is playing out in real life. one of the your cultural moment of life in these policies i think sometimes you know. pleasure to have you with us here on t.v. today i roll researcher.
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and i. think. my mind. and. mine and i actually think right. here just too. high a pal's i'm having martin and this break in the set today is world toilet day before you bring out the potty humor consider this two point five billion people do not have access to a toilet or sustainable sanitation obviously that's a huge problem because beyond a lack of just privacy diarrheal diseases are the second most common cause of death
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for young children in developing countries one only needs to look back to two thousand and ten when haiti experienced a massive cholera outbreak after un peacekeepers dump human waste in the country's main tributary nearly nine thousand people died as a result and the cholera has now spread to surrounding nations ironically world toilet day u.n. recognize that event even though the organization is still not accepted responsibility for its role in haiti's cholera outbreak the issue is still is important as ever in fact in the aftermath of typhoon haiyan in the philippines a main concern is the destruction of sanitation infrastructure and a lack of adequate bathroom facilities for thousands of people unfortunately the taboo surrounding this topic is widespread but the more time we spend skirting around the issue the more people will die every day from sanitation deprivation so the next time you're on the john consider these facts and don't be afraid to bring the issue out of the bathroom and into the public consciousness. the look please please share
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a similar very hard to take that. lightly that had sat with the terror threat there's no. such. little. live. on talk about the minimum wage as it relates to corporate america some of the
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biggest corporations employ millions of people in the us are making massive profits while leaving their workers with pathetically low wages now a quarter the bureau of labor statistics only four point seven percent of our early employees are paid the minimum wage level but that doesn't account for the millions who are paid just above the minimum wage or the fact that low and minimum wage workers are growing faster than any other working demographic after ten years of staying frozen at five dollars and fifteen cents an hour congress approved a wage increase to seven dollars twenty five cents an hour in two thousand and nine but today that number is not even close to keeping up with the inflation rate or worker productivity and back according to a two thousand and twelve study by the center for economic and policy research minimum wage should have reached a stunning twenty one dollars and seventy two cents if wage increases kept up with worker productivity now that's not likely to happen but the same study found that if minimum. wage was merely tied to inflation and workers would be making at least
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ten dollars fifty two cents an hour now earlier this month obama announced that do you support a bill that would raise the federal minimum wage to ten dollars ten cents an hour and a gallup poll from march shows that seventy two percent of americans support a minimum wage hike not to mention the strikes across the country by low income workers demanding a living salary so with all this mounting pressure on the issue how are major corporations responding predictably they're sticking to their bottom line just take a look at the top five biggest corporations that pay americans the least coming up at number five as yum brands which is most recognized in its subsidiary forms talk about one k. of c. so the company employs almost seven hundred thousand people in the west and as a net income of one point six billion dollars c.e.o. of brands david novak makes a cool fourteen million dollars a year but despite a two billion dollars recent revenue increase young refuses to add
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a cent to their average workers' pay so you policy ain't so yummy for its employees who just this summer saw large workers strike for higher wages next up kroger the country's largest grocery store chain employs three hundred forty thousand people and. picks up eleven million dollars paycheck every year. and of course we all know target the average salary for a target worker behind the counter is under nine dollars an hour contrast this with the company's three billion dollar income stream and the c.e.o.'s twenty one million dollar take home pay on top of all that the company is forcing its employees to work on thanksgiving because black friday just ain't enough at number two good old mickey deans over fourteen thousand restaurants just in the u.s. mcdonald's has injected its golden arches into every cornerstone of american life but for a company that rakes in a five and a half billion dollars every year new c.e.o. pockets fourteen million dollars in salary alone making these an investment america
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is not exactly sure if liked it in their museum ploy pay which is why over the past two years mcdonald's employees have also organize strikes against the fast food giant and of course this list just wouldn't be complete without the monolith wal-mart common in at number one with a workforce that employs one point four million people in an income of an insane seventeen billion dollars the discrepancy between c.e.o. mike duke's twenty point seven million dollars salary and the average wal-mart employee is a disgrace so that new model that wal-mart rolled out a few years ago save money live better i think it's time for a change payless lives worse that's the wal-mart promise.
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we'll talk more about wal-mart shady business practices and today's decision by the national labor relations board to go after the company for firing protesting employees on your i may argue political commentator sans sax what's going on it sounds up so sam how do you see this lawsuit faring out because it's really awful wal-mart you know they hired protesters who were their employees that are the stems of the stems from last year's actions on black friday that's a huge walkouts across the country and wal-mart charged with intimidating threatening and even firing a lot of these workers which of course goes against their right to protest the national labor relations board expected to file these charges wal-mart will challenge them but assuming that wal-mart's found guilty of violating their workers' rights here will have to pay back fines they might have to reinstate some workers pay back salary to that and also have to inform their workers basically of their rights what they can do and i think the big takeaway here is there's more actions planned for this year there's more actions planned for black black friday this year and given the fact that wal-mart's catching some flak for how they acted
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last year maybe they'll be a little bit more hesitant to threaten workers this year we could see the number of people who are going to walk off the job increase as a result of that which could help this movement to unionize and treat employee workers a lot a lot better and last week we just saw i think fifty protesters outside of wal-mart . once again they were arrested i don't know if wal-mart actually ordered their rest of that time but do you think that these massive demonstrations and also the ones planned for black friday will have an impact are they making an impact against this moment on i think they're making a small impact but ultimately we're looking at hundreds maybe a few thousand workers who participated in this stuff wal-mart as you mention is work or simply one point four million people so we're hardly seeing a dent in the work rate work you know the workforce there of wal-mart and ultimately a lot of their employees are scared we're we're looking at an economy where there's three people looking for every one job opening someone has a job at wal-mart the the sadly don't want to lose it but i think if you combine the wal-mart strikes we've seen these fast food strikes we've seen the longshoremen
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. we've seen a bunch of strikes all going back to two thousand and eleven with the occupy movement changing a lot of these themes we see a move for a minimum wage bill increase so there's there's momentum building and i think if you get more of these stories like you saw out of canton ohio about this food drive for their own workers that's going to push this critical moment where something happens even closer right and it brings me back i mean yes it's amazing that there's this much pressure being put on on wal-mart and also these other fast food rate retailers but you know i can't help but think about what happened in d.c. where the mayor you know he leaves vetoes this bill that would have authorized wal-mart to pay its employees been wagered now what it was initially about three stars another like you know what i just build six do the deed six walmart's of the district here is about as much as we need like a nuclear waste hole in the middle of. d.c. the city would be much better passing this minimum wage hike bill and watching wal-mart run away from the city numerous studies have been shown what happens when more walmart moves in town
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a study was done in chicago sure that when wal-mart comes to town then local businesses suffer and it's almost like an economic weapon of mass destruction you could look and see that businesses within a four mile radius of wherever the wal-mart is starts suffering four miles out you see about twenty five percent of businesses close down and each mile you get closer they go up all the way from thirty five to sixty percent of small businesses are closing that are directly within the proximity of that wal-mart and for everyone or claims to create jobs for every two jobs it creates three jobs are lost in the local retail sector it's not a job creator it puts small businesses that were there by a brit independent businesses out of business so yeah that's how much do you see needs a wal-mart like it needs a hole in the head or nuclear waste site right i mean it wal-mart it's been called an economic death star just destroying everything that's path and really we're not even talking about the slave labor that ensures these low price is a little better not for those who are making all the products let's talk really quickly about this federal wage law that obama supporting what's the status on not well as long as you have republicans in charge of. of the house and you have you
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know moderate democrats in the senate who can break a filibuster it's likely not to go anywhere and you said we're talking about a an increase to nine dollars it should be upwards of fifteen dollars and if you want to include productivity as you talked about earlier it should be up there at twenty one dollars so we're talking about very very modest increase in the minimum wage and even that can't be done the only way wal-mart can continue paying their workers wages of fifteen thousand dollars a year is because we the taxpayers step up to the tune of about two thousand dollars every year but it is already a real issue break this down sam as you just mentioned really quickly i was hosting a food drive for it's own employees i mean that in itself is astounding that talk about what we supplement for wal-mart workers you don't write at all there's this whole debate about is worker is or paying their workers enough all you need to do is show that picture of this bin of wal-mart basically asking their employees to share food with each other so that they can make it through thanksgiving this is insanity they make about fifteen thousand dollars a year that's not enough to afford health insurance to afford food if you look in
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states most states the biggest employer that receives. health care benefits for their workers is wal-mart's wal-mart employees are on food stamps for the most eighty percent of wal-mart employees are on food stamps federal taxpayers taxpayers pay about two thousand dollars for every wal-mart worker to compensate to make help them make ends meet so ultimately i think it comes up to two point six billion dollars wal-mart workers receive from the federal government and that's a welfare queen that is that is the only way that wal-mart's business model works is if taxpayers come in and compensate which. just contradicts the entire argument of not raising the minimum wage because we don't want to hurt small businesses and look at you know all these things will be hurt but we're the ones i mean all these people are anti welfare and all this stuff. there's a place where there's a talking point out there that says raise the minimum wage and that'll hurt job creation yet no studies ever been proven that studies have shown the opposite that if you raise the minimum wage it increases economic. people buy more things which
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causes businesses to hire more people so sound wise and we wouldn't be supplementing income of wal-mart worker unless it look if this was a company that was struggling we can understand it we can understand you know we have to cut costs here we have to help each other at times are tough they occupy spots six through nine of the top four hundred richest americans the forbes family billionaires we're talking about we're talking about a company that gets more revenue than any other company in the world scum is doing just fine and they can afford to pay its workers thank you so much sand sacks article commentator thanks for breaking them down but. coming up you guys i'll speak with two authors about the only native american ever who went to war against the u.s. army believe it stick around. the world with. its technology innovations all the latest developments from around russia. the future of coverage.
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i think. everybody. should you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy schreck albus. role. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the call for the takeover of our government and across several weeks when a high jinks try handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once built just by job market and on this show
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we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem. rational debate and real discussion critical issues facing to find a job ready to join the movement then walk in the big picture. the big. november is native american heritage month but sadly most of what people think they know about native americans comes from the cartoon pocahontas it's unfortunate that
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this rich ancestry and the true facts of western expansion are seldom discussed one only needs to look at modern deplorable conditions of native americans in places like pine ridge reservation in south dakota this reservation was once home to one of most prominent native american leaders you've probably never heard of his name was read a cloud and my next guests tom clavin and bob drury recently published a book called the heart. everything that is highlighting red cloud life and legacy i first ask them who read was and why they choose to focus on this particular american hero. bob who is red cloud and what made you to want to write a book about this native american here i'll tell you it two part answer red cloud in short is the only american indian to ever defeat the united states in a war not a battle a war and how tom and i found out about red cloud i have to say he was he was nothing but a clouded my mind we have collaborated together on three previous books and they
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all involve talking to people who were alive world war two holes you start from the less than a fox going about the korean war vietnam we've written a vietnam book together we were down in quantico talking to a marine historians the marines a lot of us because we're books and casually conversationally and official marine historian said if you guys ever hear about the indian who want to war against the united states and i meet my buddy thought was the way to the seminoles one battles the little big horn and he said no not a battle a war his name is red cloud check him out and that's how we got into this amazing we also hear about crazy horse a lot an american is your but we don't really hear about red cloud you don't mostly hear about crazy horse in the context of what he did sitting bull and custer and the little big horn and nobody really knows that ten years before that battle crazy horse was like the field general of red cloud red cloud was the strategist he was detected and crazy horse was the one who carried out this strategy they had i
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wouldn't call it a father son more like an uncle nephew kind of relationship but he was like is war can see this if you want if you want to. just saw this teenager and saw how wild and good and by a little deadly he was in battle and he somebody keep an eye on this kid and fearless if you know the solar fields. talk of the red cloud of war. was this battle about and why was it so overlooked in history bob. well i think part of it might be the end of the american indians we know sitting bull crazy horse. be either ended up martyred incarcerated or both in crazy horse case i think after he won his war which was about land he at one point read clouds empire if you will we would think of it as an empire the indian certainly didn't and he certainly didn't but it could he controlled one fifth of the contiguous united states so it was only natural that the empire that was building in washington the spreading west
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was going to bump up against this other empire he defeated the united states in a two year war and then he went east and he saw whole can you believe what they got east of the mississippi so when sitting bull and crazy horse ten years later said they broke another treaty got fighting again he said i've been there i'm not wasting my people's lives and i think that might be one of the reasons that until everybody in the world reads our book this he's been rather obscure he did fade into history by his own choice because he was not one that took up arms again he did not die a martyrs death and so thankfully for us it was a completely undiscovered story for for over one hundred fifty years. evil. talk about the concept misconceptions rather of manifest destiny and what this notion really did to the state of native americans well to very very different cultures you know it we sort of describe it in
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a tongue in cheek way that what was happening out of the great plains was like a gang war all the different tribes were fighting for buffalo were fighting for territory fighting for forces all kinds of of rights for ego all these of the reasons and then you had civilization that was working its way west and really the biggest clash was when the sort of benefits to the civilization the army after a civil war met red cloud. and the lakota sioux you wrap all of the cheyenne but he was able to get all worked together and and they were two great forces it was inevitable that there was going to be a war what was total surprise to the american people back east was that this case the indians won this one gold mine more gold every time we would sign a treaty with the american indians with the lakota with the crow with the pony we would say ok this is the last of the land we're going to take from you and then gold would be discovered somewhere in montana in colorado on the front range in cherry creek and in idaho and say well you know we didn't really mean that treaty
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we need that gold and there would be more and more miners pouring in the miners would be followed by settlers and red cloud in particular would start wiping out these miners and settlers and they would call on the u.s. army for help and he came out and he would wipe them out it was a vicious and i mean that literally a vicious circle would you call what happened in name americans and their genocide oh i would most definitely well the evidence of that is the evidence of that is anybody who has had the opportunity to go and visit the reservations out west. you know we've been to the pine ridge reservation where red cloud is buried and where a lot of his descendants still live it's the poorest county united states the life expectancy for a. male is forty eight. point lower than sub sub sarah and that's actually take a look at some of these eighty percent unemployed forty nine percent below the poverty line sixty one percent of children below the poverty line second forest
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county tuberculosis alcoholism writer and this was red cloud land how did this become one of the most neglected areas in the country it was sort of a case of you know we broke it so we own it basically but we haven't owned up to owning you know but what that means that the indian population has become totally dependent on federal funding and when you don't supply the federal funds they don't there's no plan b. . you know one of the worst things that one under the radar that most people don't know is when we have the government shutdown we have disruptions in federal funding the first ones to feel and feel the worst is the indian population because there is no other income for them they depend to almost totally on the federal government in a way i mean war even though the united states came begging him please sign a peace treaty will give you anything you want and he did sign that peace treaty but in a way red cloud war continues to this day there is over one billion dollars sitting
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in a treasury account that is reparation for the united states breaking yet another treaty and taking the black hills and the descendants of red cloud who became a tribal elder all of a red cloud who just died at ninety one this past summer great great great great great grandson they said no we don't want your money we want the black hills back and now they're not being obdurate about they're saying we know you're settled in there we'll take this federal law nobody really wanted to create an innovative way to build on for about a fifth and i might add that the federal land they won't disrupt the communities so in a in a sense red cloud war red cloud war still going on today it is you know chris hedges calls places like pine ridge the sacrifice of capitalism why have all native american lands become pretty much the primary victims of predatory capitalism well to begin with the lands that were given to the indians were the least desirable lands you were going to give the indian tribes lands that were great for farming
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for ranching that were rich with minerals you know gold and silver and everything you gave them the land that the white people did not want and nothing's changed you know there's no opportunity there there's no you they can't farm that was so it's it is an example of how capitalism is was was reserved for the white people capitalism was not allowed for the. original original inhabitants of this country although i'm not quite sure of capitalism would have worked anyway for the american indian tribes some of them the the cherokee certainly adopted to adapted to it very well but i'm not sure for the plains tribes if capitalism ever would have worked i'm not saying what's happened now to the american indian today's inevitable but i just i find it hard to come up with a counterfactual history why do you think capitalism wouldn't work for them. i don't believe they. will i don't believe i go they did not believe in the exchange of goods and services for x.
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amount of goods and services or dollars or more however you want to call it that ownership of land right and they did not believe in ownership of land they believe that what land you were on belong to the great spirit so to speak and you were there today whatever buffalo you kill do you think the great spirit and you moved so the idea of ownership of land monetary exchanges even the old the old man is jim bridger and kit carson and sam dion they knew that when they were trading iron pots or the accoutrements of civilization blankets for buffalo beaver pelts first and then buffalo roots they know that they the indians wouldn't get what trade meant so we're going to bestow these gifts of iron pots and blankets on you and you be stowed these gifts of buffalo robes on us that's what i meant once again i'm not sure if they would evolve perhaps they would i can't answer the question yeah you know we have a lot to learn from the way that they treated this land and any other you guys and
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anyone who's been to a reservation knows they can see no industrial complex that has taken over these lands have that manifest they don't really understand how this manifested in and completely infiltrated and how does it affect the communities there the casinos you know that's it that's a great question about how sudden wealth is affecting the indian tribes you know what certainly the bobby. before it's the one billion dollars that's available in the treasury on the one hand the lakota sioux and the other tribes out there desperately need money to disbelieve need ways to fund education and social programs on the other hand it's a sudden influx of wealth that could destroy what's left of the tribe what are they going to do with all this money there's no preparation for the casinos are representing that too because there are tribes who twenty years ago ten years ago had nothing and now they're talking about billions of dollars in revenue and it's i'm not saying it's destroying some of these tribes but it's really dealt
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a blow to their identity and what's what's their future to have to try and balance the wealth with cultural history i think they would need another indian like with the foresight and the knowledge his knowledge of politics his knowledge of human nature and i'm sure there's one out there somewhere that would have to figure out how to distribute this money without it blowing back i mean we've talked about blowback everywhere in the world from afghanistan to the mideast there might be some blowback but we have about thirty seconds left but what can we do to reinvigorate the true history of red cloud and also just remember this last population without it being a superficial debate like the redskins mascot name right that's a good question. you're going to ask that's a start but you're i mean i didn't want to plug the book so obviously but i don't know what else to say but i do read about this man is just incredible i think what's important about the book is it shows native american population in america before the civil war we know almost nothing about what the native american populations were like and that's what this book does we had material we could tell
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that story and i think people who read this book are going to have a much greater understanding of what being an american indian was really like then reading about sitting bull and some of the later leaders that came along in the late eighty's hundreds thank you so much bob drury tom clavin i really appreciate it thanks so much. if you like to see so far you guys go to our facebook page get a. so like facebook dot com for breaking the set and we'll be updating our status and daily there you guys i post photos we post our favorite segments i always reach out to you guys to see what you want to see covered on breaking in the set also try to be on the scene photos or take our studios on the facebook page and bring us up report on the road so head to our facebook page you're going to all that and more as a break from my preaching and the show will have a great night you guys will see right i'm going to break the set all over again while.
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i'm at it and i think a society that i'm a big corporation kind of can. do and be the banker had all been all about money and i was actually sick for politicians write the laws and regulations tacked. on the head. there is just too much rat is a society. that. plus there was a new alert animation scripts scare me a little. league. there is breaking news tonight and we are continuing to follow the breaking news. alexander's family cry tears
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of joy and great things out there that there had to be either read or get a quart of water on the ground alive is a story made for a movie is playing out in real life. one of the wonderful strongarming alive should be a good new knowledge base and i think you're right you know the mona. lisa. a pleasure to have you with us here on our t.v. today i'm researcher.
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big bucks for. the would like to do. did you know the price is the only industry specifically mention in the constitution. that's because a free and open prize is critical to our democracy schreck all books. well i'm. going to go on i'm sorry and on this show we were the a little picture of what's actually going to go into the world we go beyond identifying the problem to try rational debate and a real discussion critical issues facing our family members ready to join the movement. and while they take. time same sex in for tom hartman in washington d.c. here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture. black friday is right around the corner which means that wal-mart is.

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