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tv   Interviews Culture Art Documentaries and Sports  RT  May 28, 2014 8:00pm-11:01pm EDT

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coming up on r t in fort meade maryland a hearing was held for a get bowed detainee the man is facing charges over a bombing attack on the u.s.s. cole in yemen and update from the base just ahead. of president obama lays out his u.s. foreign policy plans of the forefront was the withdrawal of troops from afghanistan but what else does his vision for america include details coming up. and a new york city activists seek an audit of the n.y.p.d. intelligence gathering operations for years the department had infiltrated and spied on activists we'll talk with one of the groups wanting to unmask the secrecy of the n.y.p.d. later in the show. good
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evening it's wednesday may twenty eighth eight pm in washington d.c. i'm lindsey french you're watching r.t. america. a man accused of orchestrating the october two thousand bombing of the u.s.s. cole that killed seventeen u.s. sailors was back before a military judge today prosecutors in the case well the judge to reconsider an order requiring them to release the files of guantanamo bay detainee hume experience in secret cia prisons after his arrest proceedings in get my our broadcast in a secure facility at a military base in fort meade maryland so journalists can cover them via video conference charges make a low joined me earlier from fort meade i asked her what had happened in court today. today was mostly a procedural hearing much of the time was focused on that initial part of dealing with the torture report the torture of ford is going to play a big role in how this trial plays out because the trial against the odds all right heman all right sherry is considered a death penalty trial so today we heard
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a number of motions dealing with first of all that part dealing with the torture report we also heard of motion that asked the judge to disclose any kind of contact that he has had with the cia and also with victims that have been on the airplanes on their flight over to the guantanamo bay trials the prosecution often invites the family members of victims to go ahead and go on over and watch the proceedings as they happen also we heard the defense today ask for the judge to go ahead and try this alone without up yaml without a military panel of jurists the defense said that because this is a military commission and because the people that are selected for the jury come from the military they're often going to be biased about the u.s.s. cole bombing which is what all machinery is being tried for that two thousand october bombing of the u.s.s. cole so they said that he has a better chance at a fair trial if he is tried by just a judge and those are just a couple of the motions that we heard today but tell us about the man at the center
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of this what about the sheriff himself what's his history. well of the all the hemo shiri is a saudi man was actually has citizenship though in the yemen he was trained by jihad ists in the one nine hundred ninety s. and in one nine hundred ninety eight he joined al qaida and during that time the one nine hundred ninety s. he had close contact allegedly with osama bin ladin as well as contact on several occasions with colleagues shaikh mohammed the so-called mastermind of the nine eleven terror attacks now all not sure he himself is allegedly responsible for planning finding the explosives for actually finding the people to execute the bomb . i mean of the u.s.s. cole which as i said killed seventeen sailors and injured another forty of them so that is the main trial that we are watching kind of play out at the moment again it's only emotions right now but he also is described as having a very intricate connections within al qaeda itself one of the detainee assessments
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that described him described him as being considered the most senior al qaeda member other than chaos and he did not have to answer to anyone regarding financial matters or the spending of al qaeda money in his terror plots. well his defense lawyer spent quite a bit of time today focusing on trying to get more information on the cia's so-called torture program what's the status of these efforts and why is that information is so important to them. well today we heard back and forth between the defense and the prosecution as to what the papers include what they're hoping to find and the importance of them so back in april the judge pushed back the trial date this trial was supposed to be in the not too distant future now it's been pushed back for almost eleven months to february ninth although they're calling that's kind of just a theoretical date at the moment so what happened was the defense asked for more reports from this torture report it is a sixty three hundred or so page document that kind of compiled millions and
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millions of classified cia documents dealing with al qaida dealing with all the sherry and dealing with the torture and the interrogation and detention process and the so-called cia black sites that happened all over the country now the senate select intelligence committee which is headed headed up by dianne feinstein at the moment has ordered this report this report was supposed to be out years ago finally came out in two thousand and twelve now they're going through the declassification process the defense argues that they don't need the decent classification process and not not only do they want the executive summary which in those itself is going to be four hundred eighty pages but they want the entire report from the classified . version and to be able to determine what's going to come out of these papers now the reason that this is so important is because as i mentioned this is a death penalty case so what the reason is because it will affect what the sentence will ultimately be the reason he was treated how he was treated i should say in
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detention and in those interrogation processes now in those intended terra geisha processes he was allegedly subjected to waterboarding to mock executions and other kind of harsh interrogation methods that are now being described as torture post bush administration well yet of course it's very important for them to chart for the defense to chart where their client was all over the world at these so-called black sites as he hop scotched his way to his final destination of guantanamo bay now you're reporting from a military base in maryland how did these military proceedings go forward get mo detainees was on the share even present for the hearing. on a jury was in fact present in the courtroom although he did not speak he had a translator that was interpreting for him over a earpiece so he was president and congress and obviously during the whole trial now how these proceedings tend to work is a back and forth between and this court right now i should say is a little bit more informal then and more of this trial parts but this was right now a back and forth between the defense in the prosecution just regarding how the
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trial is set to move in the future so we don't yet know kind of how it's going to play out if necessary himself will actually choose to speak he has spoken before during different hearings to kind of give his opinion through it his counsel i should say so we'll have to see how he plays into this whole thing but so far he's been president during the whole trial all right thank you very much that was our t.v. correspondent meghan lopez at fort meade maryland. and his commencement speech to west point graduates today president obama outlined the foreign policy plans of the united states chief among them the drawdown of troops in afghanistan when he took office in two thousand and nine there were nearly thirty five thousand u.s. troops in the country after two thousand and ten surge to one hundred thousand and they leveled off again to the current thirty two thousand according to what he said today they'll drop to just under ten thousand by the end of the year and then dwindle over the next two years as afghan forces are better trained to push back stream ists in the court according to secretary of state john kerry this exit will
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allow the government to divert resources to a five billion dollar anti-terrorism fund allowing the u.s. to take the fight to other parts of the world parties garniture khan has more on what the president said today he started off by saying the u.s. is the one indispensable nation on earth and must intervene wherever it can his speech was filled with words about how exceptional the u.s. is take a listen by the most measures america has rarely been stronger. relative to the rest of the world what a typhoon hits the philippines. or schoolgirls were kidnapped in nigeria. or masked men occupy a building in ukraine. it is a murder. that the world looks to for help here's my bottom line. america must always lead on the world stage if we don't all. no one else will president obama went on to say the united states will use military
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force unilaterally whenever its core interests demand it kind of begs the question whether the u.s. recognizes other country's right to do the same is that after world war two america had the wisdom to shape institutions to keep the peace and support human progress he named nato and the united nations among those institutions then he named countries which in the view of the u.s. president have challenged international law in an international institutions russia iran china remember he was speaking to graduates of the west point military academy and outlining threats for the country but although he spoke persistently about the us is right to use military force you know laterally the president did recognize not every problem has a military solution here but to say that we have an interest in pursuing peace and freedom beyond our borders is not to say that every problem has a military solution since world war two some of our most
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costly mistakes came not from our restraint but from our willingness to rush into military adventures without thinking through the consequences. without building international support and legitimacy for our action without leveling with the american people about the sacrifices required president obama was also speaking to some of his opponents here who say he hasn't intervened and now in world affairs but his speech indicated moving forward u.s. foreign policy is going to be as interventionist as ever that was artie's guy and it's a chicken. former n.s.a. whistleblower edward snowden's first televised interview from moscow is set to air tonight and it's his it's the main event and we see aired a segment of the program where he gives his reasons for being in russia. the reality is i never intended to end up in russia i had a flight booked to cuba on words to latin america and i was stopped because the
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united states government decided to revoke my passport and trapped me and moscow airport where i didn't jive too well with secretary of state john kerry take a listen if there's a snowden wants to come back to the united states today we'll have him on a flight today we'd be delighted for him to come back and he should come back and that's what a patriot would do a patriot would not run away and look for refuge in russia cuba or some other country well he's not the only one who feels that way in fact of the many months since edward snowden landed in russia u.s. government officials left and right have adamantly insisted that he is in cahoots with the russian government congressman mike rogers is one of them when he asked the head of the defense intelligence agency about it earlier this year he didn't get the response he was looking for do you believe that. there's any indication that the n.s.a. contractor who is now in moscow might be under the influence of russian intelligence services chairman i don't have any information to that effect excuse
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me while his current location in moscow has resulted in many disparaging comments just on radical one of snowden's attorneys whose work with many whistleblowers tells r t that it's a normal response unfortunately as is a case in almost every whistleblower scenario as soon as someone finds out who the whistleblower is they start focusing on that person and trying to go after them in other words shooting the messenger rather than listening to the message the u.s. charge snowden with espionage last june. following days of violent shoot outs of anti-government groups locals in donetsk in eastern ukraine fear the army is preparing for yet another raid aircraft are patrolling the skies above us people are warned to stay inside and away from the windows r.t. as palace layers in the region with details. when increasingly dates is becoming a city of panic and lockdown there is a growing fear here that the government will resume its military operation people
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have been ordered to stay at home and far from bay windows in the last few hours there have been military jets flying overhead at the same time there has been sporadic gunfire that has been heard in a number of streets but this is not just about a fear of a military crackdown people are also concerned that they could be a looming humanitarian disaster now many of the banks have already closed down the big supermarkets are shut the public transport in the city has also ground to a hold now you need to remember that when we talk about the city of donetsk where i am we're talking about eight million strong population this is bigger in some european capitals i've also been talking to people who've been telling me that they feel that that could be a repeat of the massacre that happened earlier in the week where some one hundred people were killed now pro autonomy forces say that the ukrainian army was deliberately firing at residential buildings and at least half of those people killed were civilians so as you can well imagine a lot of fear
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a lot of concern the city here in lockdown that was artie's palace where. the new york police department's first ever inspector general has quite a case on his hands political activists are calling for an audit of the n.y.p.d. surveillance tactics activists filed a complaint tuesday based on documents published by the associated press showing that officers have been monitoring political activists and sending undercover officers to their meetings that revelation came in two thousand and twelve this comes on the heels of the n.y.p.d. recently disbanding its demographics unit after nine eleven which subjected entire neighborhoods to surveillance based on ethnicity and religious affiliation among the groups filing this complaint is friends of bradley well which is aimed at bringing accountability to those responsible for the murder of bradwell a journalist who was killed into. working in mexico to uncover shady dealings in the so-called war on drugs i was joined earlier by the cord nature of that group
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robert to arrest i first asked him to fill us in on the details relating to the n.y.p.d. as investigation that the friends of broadwell was caught out that. they send officers to meetings of our activists of our network they actually send officers detectives to hound our members to visit their homes to ask them questions for years on end in a kind of open ended investigation which we've had much difficulty getting more documentation of in our for freedom of information act request. what tell us about the friends of bradwell what does your organization do it at the n.y.p.d. would be so interested in. well that's a good question we're a human rights organization like you said we're interested in pressuring the government to support accountability for the murder of u.s. journalist brad will in mexico and we've been lobbying congress and rallying people
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to address the human rights abuses of the drug war which metastasized since we opposed bush and then obama's drug war militarization in mexico. why have these disclosures that the n.y.p.d. was so interested in your group affected your operations have you had to change things were you surprised by some of the things you found they were looking out. it's very sad to to have to say that we have been packed it and damaged by these disclosures. we are natural allies in pressuring the government and people who would be sympathetic to these efforts often are refugees from the drug war countries the countries where u.s. is sending military aid and police aid and so many of those people these refugees are undocumented and under obama we've seen a huge number of these people sent back into what effectively the war zone
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in mexico and so we feel very responsible for protecting these people from unwarranted surveillance by the n.y.p.d. and so we are reluctant to reach out to these natural allies in our organizing efforts when you ask the it inspector general to audit the n.y.p.d. surveillance unit break it down for us what are you asking for that to entail exactly well let me first point out that our demands are perfectly coincide with the i.g.f. mandate which is to protect civil liberties of new yorkers and to increase safety so we've asked him with with our audit to fully disclose the targeting of activists over the last two decades and to include not only the list of targets and groups but also to enumerate the costs and the training that police officers undergo to justify in their work the targeting of political activists there's
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a longer list of demands or recommendations of the i.g. . we have in our in our complaint which people can get on our website and read for themselves why did you file your complaint now why the timing light why right now. right well thanks to the good work of police reform organizations like the brennan center in new york city we succeeded last year in getting a law passed that established the i.g. as a. body of oversight for the n.y.p.d. with subpoena power and so yesterday was his first day in office and we took advantage of that to provide him with a blueprint for his work and we're hoping that he'll seriously consider these these recommendations which like i said coincide perfectly with his mandate. right now that the police exist to ensure that the community is safe if they have an inkling that a group may be up to no good do you think they should have the authority to investigate
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before trouble begins. oh well. you know activists are people who have the same passion and desire to serve the public that police recruits are often inspired by and that's what has them join the police force and so that's you know political activists are really the lifeblood of our democracy and these operations undermine the good work that we do. the waste of resources that is deployed towards targeting activists could be deployed towards actually pursuing real crime we haven't yet heard of the why p.d. intel division putting an informant inside a bank or financial services operation to unmask what has recently been the complete meltdown of the global economy caused by these organizations so
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we feel that yes police have a role in protecting the public from crime but that's not served by their actions against political activists that's an interesting thought their police monitoring at bankers meetings that's a that's a nice thought well you know it does it does very mentioning we did contact in my piece for comment and they had none for us but we do thank you very much for coming on with us today robert you're asking human rights activists from our new york studio. the mayor of chicago is proposing a sweeping ordinance on gun sales in the city it's been more than three decades and stores could legally sell handguns in chicago but now that the handgun ban has been overturned in court the city is trying to come up with a new plan one provision of the proposal would require that anyone buying a handgun be recorded on video at the point of sale the mayor believes that would beg buyers think twice before purchasing guns for someone else or trying to sell guns on the black market guns rights groups say videotaping races privacy and constitutional issues in the ordinance would be challenged in court the city is
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also seeking tougher restrictions on where stores can actually be located under the plan gun shops could not be located in ninety five percent of the city this new ordinance says gun stores would need to submit a safety plan outlining exterior lighting surveillance cameras alarm systems as well as storage of guns and ammunition and maintain a log of gun sales employees also need to go undergo fingerprinting and background checks as well as training to identify potential gun traffickers buyers will also be restricted to only one handgun purchase per month coming this friday new show here on our team erica it's called redacted tonight take a look. do you want me i want you comedy here is this is. what your comedy used to be a beer because did no hold right to that jab. why did you do that to the corporate elite billionaire freaks while they're doing.
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that which you get with my new project to deny. this are more about his new show i'm joined by the host of redacted. pretty good now tell me about the show what's it about it's exactly like i said that in the promo it's a full frontal punch to the face of the corporate elite using comedic means that's what it is because you do the news all day it's insane right doesn't it seem like a comedy show so what better way was a little better way to tackle it there with comedy i mean i don't even know how you do it without without wanting to hang yourself it's pretty pretty crazy i just laugh during the promise to go back to your job as usual so tell us tell me about it what's the premise of it as far as the structure of the show what's going to look like when people tune in yeah you know it's like a newscast but it's a lot of it's comedy have got an amazing cast working with me sam sachs john f.
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adonal phil chang and we're going to be tackling all the all the news a lot of it that the mainstream media won't cover so it's like you get this information and then you get you know it's the it's the apple sauce with the medicine the pills and they actually go down easy right. full of through and full of laughter i don't know i have to laugh i have thought there is you know it's like well we have nine hundred military bases around the world meanwhile our economy is filled with data people are still in kentucky fried chicken the chickens filled with hormones the hormones filled with mercury and we don't know what marjorie's to look because we defunded nasa so well tell us about this first first this first episode of what can we expect well we're going to discuss as you've been talking about today obama says he's ending the war in afghanistan this year even though ending apparently means ninety eight hundred troops there which makes you wonder like how much of warmongering do you have to do for ninety eight hundred troops to be the peace time answer for that to be viewed as peace it's kind of like saying jared from the subway commercials is sexy we are you sexy compared to old jared it
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depends on what you're very good to hear and we also talk about those are very well over the dog of the north carolina considering the bill that you can't talk about fracking chemicals it's a felony to. about the frog in chemicals my advise if you're in north carolina is still illegal to leave rome all right ron i never thought i'd see this run to the utopia of south carolina yes kerry is a more liberal there thank you very much cannot wait to see the new show on facebook dot com slash productive tonight it's all live now so get out there folks friday is eight o'clock and then re airing at different points during the eleven thirty s. there we go all right that was the host of reactance night comedian lee camp thank you very much thank you and before we go this evening don't forget to turn it nine pm for larry king now tonight's guest is dr mehmet oz here's a part of us to have what is this your new maybe diet pill maze up to the important time for
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a diet because in may people will get ready for the summertime they would swim suit season and yet they're fearful of swimsuits is because they pipe down the middle weight the average person does every year little bit extra that covers up beautifully shaped and defined muscles inside your body so we've had a lot of success this year talking about programs for weight loss not just simple gimmicky tips but the whole overarching concept you have several million people download the two week diet plan and the made that is extension of that and it gives you ideas that we think reported understand and redefine would be cities in america larry this is becoming a single the single biggest drawdown on our national budget for health in the country and i don't care for republican or democrat if we don't manage will be seated america no system will work tonight at nine pm right here on our team america that does it for me this evening for more on the stories we covered you can go to youtube dot com slash r t america and of course check out our website r c dot com slash usa also follow me on twitter at lindsey france for now have a great night. drama is
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the chance to be ignored. in the. stories others of the few snowdrifts. faced since changing the world lights never. see. the full picture of today's events. on demand from around the globe. up to. fifty. when anytime we hear bad news our instinct is to deny it pretend like it's not
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there until it's too late and the bad news has become really bad news and if someone dares to give us bad news we turn them into outcasts pariah a case in point a scientist named john h. mercer was an eminent glaciologist in ohio back in the seventy's when he wrote a paper called west antarctic ice sheet and c o two greenhouse effect a threat of disaster he predicted the rapid melting of west antarctica and the why some sealevel it would lead to and when the paper came out everyone to trash to nature magazine initially rejected it calling it junk science he was labeled an alarmist his paper was criticized even bill little by people who said it sounded just like a movie after it was published he had much difficulty getting funded for anything ever again and basically society treated him like he was a quack and he became a sort of scientific pariah and now thirty years later he has just been proven
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right scientists just recently confirmed that both see yep looks like the west antarctic ice sheet can melt is melting and will cause sea levels to rise too bad mr mercer is a long dead bell because he can't see that now he's been vindicated and that's something that is a common theme in our society right now we've got another pariah on our hands edward snowden so many people can't handle the. truth be revealed and what it means and the life span of earth he she well snowden walks and breathes on this earth he'll be treated like he's radioactive no one wants to touch him or if they do it will only be with tongs so they can prop them up to support whatever their agenda is but fifty or sixty years from now the world will look back at this time and see the absolute truth of what he will feel that all of our digital data is being collected because it's so easy to do period and instead of us refusing to post
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personal data anymore with this new knowledge we post more we haven't learned our lesson get and snowden is a pariah just as we didn't learn our lesson from mercer in time and we treated him as a pariah too we do this all the time we bashed anyone who revealed truth we don't like murders there is suffered for telling the truth and known faith is still in the balance unfortunately the truth they profess will continue to be true and will continue to wreak havoc on us and our denial only speeds up the storm they tried to warn us about tonight let's talk about that by pilot me on twitter at the risk that .
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technology innovation all the developments around russia. the future covered. technology innovation all the developments around russia we've got the future covered. they were there i marinated this is beyond us and these are some of the stories that we're tracking for you today. first up why is facebook asking the european union to review its a what's app deal we look into it coming right up and while economists that market analysts and experts are all trying to figure out when the fed should raise
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interest rates professor mark thoma believes the bad shouldn't raise rates at all and he's telling us why he's coming up on the show with edward harrison and then in today's big deal edward harrison and myself are talking about loan sharks oh wait sorry excuse me i meant to say subprime business lenders that's what they like you want to miss a moment and it all starts right now. with . wednesday an unexpected twist in the nineteen billion dollar facebook whatsapp deal came to light facebook which acquired what's out in february has asked european union antitrust regulators to examine its deal to buy the messaging service what's up now the social networking giant is doing this in order to avoid other antitrust
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reviews by individual countries facebook is seeking one hearing that will cover all twenty eight nations in the block but what makes this move unusual is that the deal has already been approved in the u.s. and facebook wasn't expected to see any further scrutiny by the european commission now generally companies that need approval for mergers from several national regulators in europe they prefer to take their case to the european commission in order to avoid the hot. well of multiple reviews from multiple countries now in the us the federal trade commission approved the facebook what's out deal in april under the condition that facebook and what's out give notice and get permission to share information beyond their existing privacy settings which pretty much share all your information now european telecom companies may pose the biggest threat to this merger and carriers are rightfully concerned about this big deal because texting is a high margin business for them and what's app is all about texting so will this
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preemptive strike work in the social networking giants favor or are they just poking a sleeping dragon only time will tell. upon the market analysts and experts are all trying to figure out when or if the fed should raise interest rates now would rising interest rates create inflation or would they act as a drag on aggregate demand professor mark term of the university of oregon believes the federal reserve should not raise rates now mark's blogs he blogs at scuse me the economists view that's the name of the blog and he explained to us what he believes the fed should be doing now i started our conversation by asking him if income inequality is the defining issue of our time take a look at what he had to say. i think it is and i think it's simply because it's
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been growing for the last three decades and the middle class has been stagnating the lower income classes have even perhaps lost a little bit of ground in real terms over the last three decades and i think we're starting to worry that that the rise in inequality might actually have economic impacts for a long time we came out of the you know the communism of the sixty's or the worries about that the idea was that if you have more inequality it creates the right incentives you get more growth more innovation all the right all the sort. the things you want to cap us economy and one of the big questions we have to address as a profession is are we getting to the tipping point where inequality is so large that it actually turns around and has a negative impact on growth that it doles the incentives of some people in the lower middle class if you're not going to get anything for your hard work if you're not going to get raises when you're more productive and that sort of thing why should you work hard and so there's all sorts of questions to answer now about whether we've reached this tipping point where inequality actually is hurts the
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real economy and i think for for me that's the defining issue and there's also the equity question which is what is fair how should income be distributed that's something the economics has a lot to say about that so that's a matter of opinion and a matter of value judgments nevertheless i think it's a question that the society and the politicians are going to have to address and so yes i think it is a defining question of our time and we'll see how it plays out mark when should the fed raise interest rates in your opinion. i think they're going to do it at the first of next year i think they should be very patient in doing so and they should wait until unemployment has clearly. neared full employment i think if they pull the trigger too soon they could blunt what's already a too slow recovery so you know within that when they're within a point half a point of full employment then i'd really start thinking about beginning to raise interest rates if there's any sign of inflation then i think they have to consider
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raising interest rates but right now there's just no signs of inflation anywhere on the rise of so that's not a worry so for me the main question is when has unemployment recovered sufficiently to interest rates to rise and we're not there yet i think full employment is probably in the five five and half percent range we're getting close to that but i just don't think we're we're to the point yet where we need to start worrying about an overheated economy i mean i think we're worried about inflation if the economy recovers faster than they raise interest rates until we see signs that inflation on the horizon i'm just not at all worried so let's keep interest rates low let's do it and let's do it we can to make the recovery go even faster. recently you wrote a piece on for reasons the fed should not raise interest rates now you have four broad categories rules versus discretion helping savers threat of a full inflation skinny threat of inflation and the threat of deflation now can you want pakistani audience. sure my main motive was the last two there's been
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a debate out there about whether the correct way to raise inflationary expectations and hence inflation is to raise interest rates are something called the fisher equation that says that the nominal interest rates the real interest rate plus the rate of inflation according that equation if the real interest rate stays constant and some people think it's relatively constant if you raise the nominal rate up that should raise the inflationary expectations and then if inflationary expectations go up then inflation should go up the other view out there is one that when you raise interest rates it slows investment it slows consumption the durables it makes net exports worse that slows aggregate demand and that puts downward pressure on prices and inflation and so i was really trying to unpack that debate and say look we have a lot of empirical evidence on this we know we already know what happens this is what chris simms won his nobel prize for is that when in part is that when you raise interest rates inflation goes down so so when you raise interest rates it's not inflationary it's deflationary and so to me that's not
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a real debate but it's one that's put out there in the blogosphere the other two were just thrown in partly to fill up the eight hundred words i had but also because i think the real issue is we've also heard that savers are very disappointed that if we raise interest rates your interest rates are so low that savers are getting hurt but i think that that misunderstands the nature of the disequilibrium are in because of the recession if savings is greater than investment as it does as it is now the right prescription is to lower interest rates to bring those closer together that would lower savings and raise investment but you're at the zero lower bound like we're at right now you can't lower interest rates any further and raising them simply makes that gap between savings and investment even worse and it slows the real economy and so to me the notion that you should raise interest rates to help savers is not the correct thing to do what you really need to do is create profitable opportunities so that people are willing to pay a higher interest rate for. for the money that they borrow and the last one was
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just a rebuttal to john taylor of taylor rule for fame who's also been calling for raises in the interest rate and his view is you ought to follow in no surprise here the taylor role in the taylor rule says that interest rates should go up and it's more important for that it's important for the fed to follow rules and not just do whatever it feels like in his rule says interest rates should go up so it should to me that's just you can't just blindly follow rules rules can't cover every possible contingency we had a great recession that his rule didn't anticipate and it doesn't surprise me that the best prescription is to deviate from the rule that he has in place i want to ask you are should you saying that the low rate environment could quote provide tender for a build up of leverage and risk as madame janet yellen once put it. i think there's a there's a possibility that and i think jeremy stein on the fed while he was still there he's retired was very right to raise these issues about are we seeing bubbles
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within financial markets due to the fed's low interest rate policy they've been keeping a pretty close eye on that maybe they see a little froth here in there and so it's certainly a possibility but i just don't see much on the horizon out there that makes me worry that we're creating bubbles through the low interest rate policy and creating financial risks that are going to blow the financial system apart like it did before there may be some of that type of behavior out there but it doesn't appear to be so much that it's something the fed or the public in general ought to be worried about so i think it's a real concern but i don't think it's a concern that's been validated yet that was university of oregon professor mark thomas. time now for a quick break but stick around because when we return we're bringing you part two of our interview with paul brodsky brodsky is talking to us about tail risks banking and inflation in the euro zone and the u.s. that in today's big deal edward ericson and i are discussing predatory business
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lending and the shady folks that practice it for we go here are a look at some your closing numbers of the bell stick around. well if you're going to like the holidays i do like you know.
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pleasure to have you with us here on our t.v. today i roll researcher.
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i would rather ask questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on r.t. question for. welcome back to the now unlike market time up hope brodsky believes that inflationary expectations do drive inflation now he suspects that monetary authorities will soon raise the specter of deflation in order to create
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inflationary expectations and thus inflation itself now brodsky is a portfolio manager at cooper new global investors edward an heiress and sat down with brodsky earlier to talk about tail risks banking and inflation of the eurozone and the us he started off by asking brodsky about tail risk that could affect the macro and investing world here's what he had to say. specifically i think we know that we cannot have debt deflation we know the. central banks know it monetary authorities may know it. politicians across the world know this and the reason is because. the primary reason i think is because. the assets of banking systems or loans and debt deflation brings down the collateral value of their loan books which brings down. the. there where with all and they become insolvent frankly it was
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a married potential tail risk then that people would actually policymakers would actually think that we didn't learn anything from the great depression we're going to let this particular detail risk go i mean why next question had was going to be about christine lagarde you know she's been very aggressive in pushing a new agenda recently she called for the e.c.b. to. come out swinging against deflation because she's concerned about that this what do you make of christine lagarde of policy statements in that regard i think it's the first of many i think i think that's where we're headed i know you alluded to it before i think. what we're going to start to see at some point in the future and maybe the near future. is global policymakers coming out and starting to fear inflation. whether or not. the first way to do that is to fear deflation i think so that you can get monetary authorities to begin to
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act against deflation in a very aggressive manner. their goal is to provide some fear or. within our societies of impending inflation that's how you get inflation recall that greenspan. central bankers before him bernanke he and and yellen are all consistent in saying that what drives inflation most is the fear of inflation so i would argue that we will soon see some. policy that pushes out the fear of inflation and the only way to do that is as ms lugard has begun to do put out there that we should be fearing deflation which would provide cover for monetary authorities to begin really inflating. way to inflate pardon me the way the way to inflate i think is obviously to try and raise
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the total money stock and so that there is you know there's some type of bank multiplier which leads to monetary velocity velocity and increase and all of these terms that your audience i'm sure is familiar with that creates money flowing in and out of the system and back and forth within the system that creates some type of price increase that benefits debtors and we are all debtors in the advance to congress well let me give you an opposing view from our mutual friend marshall our back he was on our show recently his view is that the i.m.f. as a part of the troika made the situation in the eurozone worse by imposing austerity when debt deflation was actually the the potential that we had post two thousand and eight when the greek crisis was hot and heavy what's your view on that. so
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clarify marshall's point for me if you will i mean is he saying that the real the real risk here is that deflation well you know i think that he's in the will risk is that in fact that you know the europeans both private sector and government sector are in a situation in which they are currency users and that means that they have to get euro's or they default that's debt deflation right there you know the debt is too high they will default and when you impose austerity in those conditions these thing that's negative that creates a self-fulfilling prophecy in a downward spiral and that's exactly what got us in the situation that we're in right now. so i can't disagree with marshall i think i think that's the fear that. marshall i think is articulating what christine lagarde said broadly and that is we're waiting for a min ski moment here or at least we're all fearing
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a minsky moment that being. suddenly out of nowhere. we have some type of default on debt someplace and it triggers an avalanche of further defaults which cascades into through the banking system and that becomes the primary objective of as we saw in two thousand and eight two thousand and nine that becomes the primary objective of all monetary authorities globally is to rebalance the system in the way they did it then was to create base money and monitor and based bank reserves in the banking system my sense is that if it were to occur today because we've already begun to deal ever banks in the united states through bank reserve creation i have a sense that you might see. bank reserve creation in other domains and other economies along with. some type of money creation. out the in the
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broader system not just bank reserve creation but some type of. money that gets out there for the rest of us who have joy you know i can't dispute marshall's point i think that's the trigger let's take a step back here for a second let's look at the currencies for a moment it seems to me that central banks feel obliged to manufacture enough liquidity i think you mentioned this to service the existing credit in the system and this is especially acute for the fed because you know the dollar is the world's reserve currency what impact do you believe that nine hundred seventy one abandonment of the bretton woods will have or has had on system of privilege in the global financial system. i think what was known then by a few in what may be know now by many more. is that. ultimately increases the fragility of our economy because our our money we have no you know our money is baseless it's effectively debt
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and not only that. which would be ok on its own but the debt is never extinguished and if we borrow our currency our money into existence it means there's an interest rate that must be assigned to it just that rate of interest that it's a sign to our money. demands that more money be created with which to repay service and repay that debt so it's a compound being monetary debt cycle and and it was relatively unknown it couldn't be seen as long as interest rates were coming down generally and as long as financial asset prices were rising above the rate of inflation and we had that for much of the last thirty years never knowing or month most of us never knowing that. tremendous risk was being built and then and bedded
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in the system that would ultimately have to be wreckage reconciled now a lot more of us get that and so i think what happened in one thousand nine hundred seventy one set the table for what ultimately might happen forty years later or fifty years later or whenever it might happen but i think it's already in there and . you know i don't want to come across as a historian because i'm not but if you look back you'll see it's awfully challenging to reconcile baseless currencies i don't know if it's ever been done. that was paul brodsky portfolio manager at global investors time now for today's big deal. with mr edward care to get back on set doing this now today we're talking about
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subprime business lending so what is subprime business lending well basically it's just a fancy business term for a scam yeah a scam now it's the practice of lending money at high interest rates won't look at that awesome graphics are high interest rates to business owners and bad credit so how high you ask as high as one hundred twenty five percent in fact i think loan sharks might have a better interest rate now sub prime business lending also requires bars to put a quadrille like cars property livestock. and if you don't pay they take away your livestock and all their other stuff now business. first born to your first born yes that's what i hear is that's actually sometimes business lending it sounds like a lot a lot like loan sharking that is now suffering because this line payday loans are these companies they like to call them short term capital right on the exact short term capital so is this just a form of loan sharking you know i in my opinion it is but what is their business
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model that makes it not loan sharking there isn't the business model is the need and you know to a certain degree this is true and all those sorts of markets is to string these people all as long as possible so that they get enough to extract enough to make up for the fall that have been so between the collateral that they get when they actually seize the property backing whatever loan they got and the interest of they've been paying over that they hope that that makes up for the defaults that are going to occur that's definitely going to happen because you're obviously lending to risk your people now according to bloomberg does. nativist the man who made a fortune signed his mortgage company to door to bank right before the housing crash is involved in this very business today now apparently another guy who got his start under jordan belfort and you'll remember him from the wolf of wall street is also in the business so yeah stand up individual you can say about that and can you tell me more about the business of predatory lending and there are obviously some
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shady characters but apparently there are more household names as well so can you tell me a little bit about them you know you know interestingly enough there is a few businesses that have some backing by the google ventures for example god peter teal who was a founder of pay pal he's involved goldman sachs i think is also involved in some capacity deutsche bank except so you have some big players that have you know lots of credibility in. the bracket sort of thing and they're getting involved in also big names in technology now edward let's take a step back here because what's the landscape look like and in terms of regulatory . bodies that are looking at this right now are there any woods basically pretty much on regulated because you know. they constructed so that it's not really a long that they're doing you know short term financing in and they have other ways to make sure that they can go to utah as an example where they can work with banks
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where there are no use we laws to deal with the whole process and so forth so really it's a very unregulated landscape and you as the borrower basically what you get is. an option a call on your business if the business succeeds because you're in dust in dire straits and you know you can continue on and you say thank you for this i would've gotten a loan through normal channels if the business fails which is often the case you pay the penalty. and you would have paid a penalty to begin with now and generally we all know this that you know higher risk. equals higher interest rate for you if you want to parse out what makes this predatory when does it just become a proper business and when does it become predatory for me this is pretty this is clearly put predatory because you're dealing with people who have no other source of liquidity they're on the brink and they're not really looking at it from a business numbers perspective they're talking about you know their future their
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love their business going down the tubes and they'll do anything even if it's something that's going to harm them in the long run to make sure that that doesn't happen and so you're stepping into the void there in order to lend to them in an unregulated market i mean this is why we have consumer protections for exactly this purpose this is why we have used we lost for exactly this purpose so the fact that we're seeing even so-called. good businesses get involved and back these ventures i think that's a very negative so called being the operative word and real quickly before we go obviously no one is forcing people with a gun to their had to take these loans. before we get all up in arms and i am up in arms because this is not a good business but shouldn't we let the markets decide how to assign risk right now right see that's the whole thing is that these are these are adults they can decide the risk and so forth but i think that that's actually a bad call i mean this is a perfect example of why we have consumer protection and thank you as always you can see all segments featured in today's show on you tube you tube dot com. we love
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hearing from you please check out our facebook page facebook dot com slash boom bust our t. and please tweet us. at edward and from all of us here at boom bust thank you for watching we'll see you next time bye bye. your friend post a photo from a vacation you can. call it different. the boss repeats the same old joke of course you. your ex-girlfriend still pens tear jerking poetry keep calm norrish. we post only what really matters. to your facebook news feed. i would bet that. a society. and big corporation kind of. can do
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and the banks write all that all about money and have a family make for a politician write the laws and regulations tax breaks. coming out. there is just too much. today's society. that.
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on larry king now the one and only damn drozd play you first now a t.v. personally and then a doctor i don't think so my life my soul my calling is medicine always practice medicine primarily and i don't care for republican or democrat if we don't manage will be seated america no system will work is the biggest concern with diet question so we don't have a good doctor always feels that we was and every death always us and so what's. the most doctors live on that little boundary of depression where someone dies in an operating room table i don't know if they died because i was so far away from success and could never have gotten through it or i was just one small little scalpel move away from saving plus i grew up like most of my generation believing that marijuana was something satan was throwing at americans in a communist plot but i think most of us had come around to the belief that no one is hugely beneficial when used correctly when this whole purpose is all next on
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larry king now. we're at the new beautifully redesigned paramount hotel in new york city and i'm joined by mary. his doctor the one and only dr oz he's vice chair of perfessor surgery at columbia university the director of the cardiovascular and complementary medicine a new york presbyterian hospital my thoughts are three is the emmy award winning syndicated daytime show the dr oz show is in its fifth year and returning this june dr oz will be featured in the second season of the critically acclaimed a.b.c. docu series new york mad he also tells me he's got a magazine to the good life when did that stuff started four months ago you know we start magazines these days you do one magazine every other month to see if folks like it risky business it's
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a risky business i was talking oprah potus because he has a magazine with the same publisher hearst but it's been very popular in macon sold out and i think that there is actually bracers appetite to give people health information where they are some folks want to hear on television or hear on the radio but a lot of time you would rip the pages out and put them in the door your most frequently in your house which is the refrigerator door and take advantage of something you can feel with your fingertips because health is such a visceral experience so it goes every other mother has contributed writers and now there's like what well how the press coming out every month starting now but the beauty of the magazines i can put people that i love so rob lowe wrote an article for me on relationships which he's been a lot of time honing and thinking about i have a little piece that i was present last piece in the magazine about my prescription for the next month things you want to be doing i was at the prologue which is why this issue is important to me and inside of it we just try to pepper it with things that we tend to touch your life and we call it the good life because it's about
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what really matters in life is that if i did want to be eighty you could easily and really eighty and looking great at it. what is this new new made diet pill maze up to the important time for a diet because in may people get ready for the summertime they would swim suit season and yet they're fearful of swimsuits here because it packed down the middle weight the average person does every year little bit extra that covers up beautifully shaped and defined muscles inside your body so we've had a lot of success this year talking about programs for weight loss not just simple gimmicky tips but the whole overarching concept we've had several million people download the two week diet plan and they made diet is an extension of that and it gives you ideas that we think are important as they can redefine wouldn't be said is in america and larry this is become a single the single biggest drawdown on our national budget for health in the country and i don't care for republican or democrat if we don't manage all b.c. america no system will work is the biggest concern with the question why with us it leads to so many problems especially babies aren't that you know well the belief
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that the omentum fat these the diabetes heart disease increase cancer rates cholesterol issues all these derive from extra belly fat and if you think about it the fat is there to protect you there is a value of it being there we did the realize we need it why do we need it because historically we always did have a little reserve just in case and if you think about a chronic stress is all about famine that's what chronic stress used to be it wasn't a deadline or rushing to get over to the studio and it was about literally not having enough food for the hormones we release we feel chronic stress are ones that make us overeat these we don't like and then store it in our waste by looking to see some of the big ways that i can always guarantee they're not cope with stress well and so the diet programs that work are the ones that respect that reality and and deal with information in the body they don't just hate less calories because a calorie isn't just a calorie sometimes metabolize better some lead to more hunger some need less hunger using the smart tools we have available to us we can cope with obesity much more impactful or as the essence of them a diet yes is the may died is two things number one recognize the toxins are
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involved with your weight gain and so if you can at least do a little bit of a cleanse. to resuscitate your liver and get that to be part of the solution rather than part of the probably helpful and number to do with inflation the body information of course is caused by many of the foods we eat meat things we experience but primarily we deal with information to the foods that are good for us rather bad for so i know there's sun gives the nutrients all those beautiful colors to the roots of vegetables and he colorful for vegetable has and the ox is that will kill off information go by the color go by the color the more the bad the rainbow food our mutual friend will show obama they to drop means but this vocal she has had a lot of effect on this she so i was actually at the white house last week but you'll never guess why i was performing a little rap to dance just the other day on the show didn't know hadst thou did not have shop there exacto jewelry you doing there so she asked me to participate in their easter egg hunt and she wanted to have a little piece i did that with doug e.
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fresh and when the first lady came on my show the very first time she taught me how to duggie which is fun little dance which i had no idea how to do but he's a wonderful rap musician in the city of new york and he makes songs now the kids resonate so he get young people to celebrate life through dance and music those are paid attention to the message so i suppose that hearing my calcified neurons chatter on about even well we put it into a rap tune which we performed at the white house but it's a great single you know we have a lot of great artists involved in it and it's really all about making it cool to be healthy and when kids hear it they want to you know they just you know have to come together for some facts kick a little you know it's almost that it becomes part of what they'll sing and the lessons in there are all about do the right thing for your body you support obamacare. i think we needed to have a program to help all americans get access to health care really the only industrialized nation without a doubt but if you look at the dilemma you face is a physician and i still practice medicine at the aspen you have cancer you kind of mentioned it at one of the biggest dilemma as i face when i know what to do for
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somebody but i can't afford to do it for them but it was i was dying in front of you needed they need a heart transplant but they don't have insurance. well you're left with the untenable the moral dilemma that obamacare the result is a right i think everyone has the right to get access to health where you cheat or not is up to you and the and what their russia should be actually at that should be essentially and it syncs the system not having health care an economy in a system like ours means that you like it readily ship coming in the dock the ship will hit the port bag it just you know destroy itself there's still oil all over the bay destroyed everybody else it's a lot more expensive to clean up so i rather have a captain at that at the helm taking care of the ship of health in this country and you have to have a way of affording carried out where the here's the dilemma though the part of obamacare that was done was the easy part actually crazy as it is getting care to everybody is easier than how to curtail the expensive parts of health care that's the probably have to focus on now i think is iterative process get the care for everybody and figure out what a red rag ratchet back and expects so you first now
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a t.v. personality and then a doctor i don't think so my life my soul my calling is medicine always practice medicine primarily i love medicine i love the show too but when you go on the television and you live this go look at the camera and you have to pretend someone real is back there you begin to believe the b.s. about the camera and your relationship with a little boy that never works and it's readily apparent that people see as in a very tight frame and over you're the host of the show you actually get in people's homes right because they're waiting you win and it will you bring to their home better be darn good or they're not going to bite you in them are a natural or good i loved teaching i always did and i always have thought about the show is as an experience that's primarily about pass along knowledge so when do you tape how do you deal with patients give me a day so let me get up get up every day same time six o'clock in the morning i can do quickly yoga thing it's seven minutes long and then in the shower after work and i either round my patients or i do scripts or use a seven in the morning thursdays i had to the hospital and i do not do rounds with
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my residents i operate all day long i see patients between cases on tuesdays wednesdays and fridays i had the studio. and i do larry hershel's and then you know i'll be a part to show you one of the at the one in the evening that we had bank annex to show so i can take that good practice medicine mondays an administrative day and i reserve for other media requests or they do it on tuesday someone is in the hospital worse than it needs immediate heart surgery and your on call i don't take call on tuesdays wednesdays and fridays i have wonderful partners at the hospital we have a very clear working relationship i trained most of them and i want it in train taught me so i want it one way the other is a relationship with me but you don't want to be in a situation where you can't hundred percent focus the person for the you and it is a metaphor used in the show as well when you're focused on the show focus on the show a must have you are a part of history she can't be in the public eye without some critique please the new yorker does a story praises you out and then says it almost daily you employ words that scientists shun like struggling breakthrough radical revolutionary marital and
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easily uses you've been criticized by scientists for lying on flimsy or incomplete data i did you respond on the verge of publicly responded with well it was a thoughtful piece i spent a lot of time with the report i knew we had. a bias which is a we all have biases and his was that you need to have very solid scientific data before you say anything my philosophy has always been that in the field of medicine we don't practice that way in medicine we do the best we can to get solid data behind what we do and then we have to jump to the next level to give you real advice you can use in your life is that extrapolation from where we know we're safe to where you need advice that the find the art of medicine on the show i do the same thing and my litmus test whether i talk about it on the show is a very simple one what i recommend to my family is always i would tell to my family i'm ok with going with it even though i know oftentimes i'm talking about the value of prayer in recovering from an illness i can only based on personal experience of seeing people pray and seeming to recover or at least cope better than they would
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have otherwise if they're scientific they're the premise you live longer or better now but it's still an advice i would give to my family and i have and that's. share with the audience to back up horses a bit it is dark as one says doctors should be optimists that no doctor should ever say you're terminal because no one no means nobody knows we've all made that mistake and like any other scenario it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy we have to be actually more than just optimists irrational optus we have to have confidence when no one else does because also they're good for you in your time of need did you react poorly to the article it was hurtful in some areas but i thought other areas he was very fair listen it's part of being in the public eye you know you know it's not personal it's more about this movement that we're involved this conversation that we're catalyzing across country i think back five years ago before we started the show a lot of the the ideas that become pretty commonplace ranging from them you know up to me mundane like you go to the bathroom and what shape your poop is to the where
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you're going to use garcinia cambogia to lose weight and is it really fat or carbohydrates that make you fat you know those whole conversation points have become much clearer now and it's not just our show but we certainly played a large role in that and if you're going to be in the kitchen you know you're going to make some noise is going to get hot you going to break some eggs oh as a cardiologist did you know so much about the areas of the body. i'm a cardiac surgeon and before you can become a heart surgeon you first have to be a general surgeon that's the process of training so i have to my four years of medical school we have a very general exposure i spent five years going about every part of the body it was as was yours and why i went to the harvard and then i went to penn then to do all my residency at columbia so i spent a lot of time learning how to take care of the bones in the brain and you know but then finally in my case i graduated to the heart which is where my love was i've loved it because almost poetic organ and it literally is like a python a serpent in your it is romantic and it's internal metronome you know one hundred surgeon women is and i know wayne very well where is the old school years when is
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not buying going through a war gone through the how do you balance between old and new school you want both there's muscle memory and an historical precedent that that the folks who have been there for a while have they made mistakes they do not to make them again surgeons make mistakes you know work controlled arrogance is what surgery is but you have to learn from those and so folks have been doing a while like wayne was superb surging know that on the other hand you have to continue to to break boundaries and bust through the clutter of dogma in order to continue to reinvent the field so i've been a good part of my life developing mechanical heart the vices and devices that repaired valves without any incision forget about going under the arm the operations we do now just with a catheter and i'm not talking about just for artery blockage something like replacing or repairing valves of the heart in go through you go to the catheter in the leg so we wrote those patents at columbia i swear i did when i was that i spent a good part my life involved in that i do the waynes resist that. there's two reasons one you appropriately is a surgeon if they think you're the best i've never met
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a surgeon did not think they were the best at arrogance that they could open your chest with a knife and do you do you good you know you know you can't shy from that but i think wayne and others who have been leaders in the field now respect the fact that these new approaches actually work within a one thousand case there are one thousand plays being case for this device what the made one this year and i have the base liberation of my home because i think it was well after the break they cleared three acclaimed new york med is bad for a second season dr oz will tell us what we can expect with the beautiful term on hotel in new york city stay with us. a. very hard to take. on. that that was the other thing here.
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i know c.n.n. the m.s.m. b c fox news have taken some not slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate i think. that was funny but it's close and for the truth from the might think.
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it's because one full attention and the mainstream media work side by side the joke is actually on here. and our teen years we have a different right. ok because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not god. i'm if. you guys stick to the jokes well handled it makes sense that i'm. i.
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know that would dr mehmet oz dr oz closely that was the successful syndicated to five years with them who would have known. it's been two years in new york met is backed up a bit of our viewers what is it your met is a a behind the scenes review what happens in major urban hospital that shot at the hospital had heart surgeon that i practice and these camera guys like flies on the wall you have no there there and you're living your life which tends to be a lot more graphic and interesting that. yeah it sure was was greenlit by one of my roommates from college with spent time with me in the e.r. at new york presbyterian so this is really about is it real riyad and is gripping is your could ever be as you know one of the doctors on that is that it's not about me it's about the hospital i happen to be pretty active so they cover patients that
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i'm taking care of their one gripping scene where a young man as an actor comes in and he has this terrible pain is back in the city wrapped its head that section a terrible day or it's what killed john ritter what killed. einstein and what killed you know lucille ball this very common problem and this guy's dying in front of my eyes and to have cameras there and with this is whole process and the skate save that keeps him alive you know all these are parts parts of your life when you're at and house but you're presbyterian but detailed to show it on camera for the first time it's this i'm believably gripping we're going to show you a clip now from new. because you had four no one to move back to the earth yet. the second was there. was. pressure. on. her. why did you get said to
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a reviews why do you think it came to that people still i think the authenticity of it it was unique for viewers and we all look at reality television and you sort of take a toll that person say that dumb thing where they told me a little boring get drunk when you capture someone who should be dead and there's just ripping to the precipice of life and pull themselves out of that that dark. darkness they did the deep area of of never neverland you can't help but stare at it and you can't look away nothing staged nothing stage and it's as authentic as it could ever be which was the part that was most amazing to me the talented producers that have to be able to live inside of us literally walk where we're walking be around but not get in the way it's very hard to have someone open up to you have a soulful conversation which is what we all crave i wouldn't watch the show now they want that authentic moment when you know i look at each other's eyes and understand what's going on because they can see that and witness that and that happens all the time in hospitals it's just hard to get on camera so most of these
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vicious great to to talk. the good done and over the good always feels every loss and every death always some so what's more there's no question absolutely true that most doctors live on that little boundary of depression because you always always think you could have done more when someone dies on the operating room table i don't know if they died because i was so far away from success i could never have gotten through it or i was just one small little scalpel move away from saving them and that's a very very heavy load of skeletons to keep in your closet and i was talking about this with my daughter that the my oldest daughter hosts a show on a.b.c. called the chill and she just had my first granddaughter philomena i'll give you a picture of her. looking at her i remember when dappy was first born because i was a senior medical school and when you reply pinned to reality which is what giving birth to that child is all about you you have to juxtapose that with the opposite side of that which when you shove life out of existence is how you take it personally as a doctor or things don't go well and when i was
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a young doctor especially and i still take it very personally someone doesn't do well i come home is terrible downstate and the kids would come to me as a daddy as play horsey and it would remind me what life's really all about which is the resilience we all have to bounce back from losses and to celebrate life where you can five years as the same duck to debate you once did you take it home with you and he said of course you do if you don't you should be a doctor. the doctor made he was a mentor of mine as well every good surgeon every good doctor takes to the last home and that's always been the challenge i think for a lot of us how do you heal the healer and he take it again college is taking care of kids and get him to forget that six month old who just died there without having a chance to really taste life but that's the challenge of being in the medical profession i think one place where we sometimes fail in america's future is not respecting that reality and not giving the time it needs i used to write i think i started writing. it is that their pick tactic to cope with the losses of patients
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that was a heart transplant surgeon dealing with people who are dying all the time of the lens a dime for you touch them you can get a donor or you change your views of mona i have i grew up like most of my generation believing that marijuana was again on to something satan was going to throwing at americans in a communist plot but i think most of us to come around to the belief that marijuana is hugely beneficial when used correctly when this real purpose is we preferred its use sometimes i don't think it should be widely used as certainly by kids because they create the eight dependence that's unhealthy in any setting but it absolutely should be while they double in america we've created one of those could be a hypocritical paradox is where in new jersey where i live for example i'm allowed to pick give you marijuana medicinally but i'm now at the buy it for the now what do you do i have to break the law and to follow my doctor's orders is there anything about the body you will not discuss any area of the body that you won't deal with like proctor our g.p.
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or at this point a lot of our practice believe me i've got to show this week on tampons i got lost i can but every specialist tells me and i've done this for fifty seven is that theirs is the most important i had to park towers and he said the whole body evolves around what he does i'll tell you the joke that i give all my partners you friends you know i doctors used to fingers rectal exams or second opinion. i'll be a whole week folks to try to harm beef we're going to cure cancer we will cure cancer in our lifetime heart disease for sure we're already getting way out of heart disease and will build prevent death from quarter disease unless people really do almost nothing to help themselves or are you going to do that when everybody lives best on the major battle we will face in america without question and it's one that worries me the most is the mention we're now a nation where most of us if we do things right most people can hear my voice right now can live to one hundred or the flick most of us is loss of memory and worse and
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we have to get better at dealing with what is essentially diabetes of the brain it's an inflammatory product of often the obesity we're carrying around if you don't cope with that implication we're going to have a lot of people lying around in convalescence of film courses heather l.o.'s on instagram what are your thoughts on stem cells to use cosmetically and otherwise had their i'm a big fan of stem cells i think they have a lot more potential than we've uncovered so far right now we're using things called vampire facelift we take some of your blood and infuse it into the face to give this of this face a chance to do but it itself they work in part because you have these cells they're good at creating change but they also probably have stem cells in them and i think we're going to get big advances not just in cosmetic issues but also spinal paralysis and in parkinson's but on twitter how many supplements can someone simply take in a day without causing bad interaction when you're taking more than six pills of any kind there's a fifty percent chance you're going to have an interaction may not be a significant one but it makes me worried i personally take a supplement but i take the lowest those possible and take them at that doses i
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could have gotten from real foods so i was a.b.c. d.n.a. the alphabet again and those that could have gotten from carrots or lemons or whatever and then i add a little bit of omega three s. because they're huge for the memory but also for joints and reducing heart issues but that to make it easier fish oils that a little extra vitamin d. because most people don't get enough especially in the winter months but that's my basic foundation that's what you should be getting anyway the safety net. and ken dawson twitter was the quickest way to realize something is a scam in terms of both care i just busted a terrible group in san diego for scamming me they were using my name to try to sell products you know i don't sell any products at all and so they were claiming i was and then they were actually selling a product that only had ten percent of what is that it had it so i went out and surprise them and they ran for the hell of a grass it was fascinating to see so here's how you can tell first if you have a celebrity associated with it be dubious most of us are going to saw our names for cheap to accomplish you see the person actually saved and as you say i like this specific product not i like vitamin c. but i like this brand but it is never to look for testimonials especially if
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they're done within a couple hours of each other because it probably planted and finally if you can't read the fine print literally at the fine print in a font you can read or the colors wrong color there's a cameo prefers a margarita how do you keep your skin so firm washed dries more strides more strikes you have never had work done never work done the way i think it is i mean done it try to tell me something why this only bad jobs we see source of come on it's terrible if the paid jobs happen because people ask for procedures should have been done in an ethical plastic surgeons sometimes do it here is the story i think we don't want to look forty we're eighty we wouldn't look good for eighty and there's a difference right i'm fifty three now i don't want to look twenty i want my looking forty or buy what i really want is a look really good at the fifty three that's my go on most women out there if you really probe into it that's what they want we all value beauty beauty beauty is an external we deflect of your inner beauty health it's a barometer of how healthy you on the inside so you want to look good for your age
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but you want to look your age. room one two three instagram have you ever diagnose a patient and then you will way off i've made plenty of mistakes into every doctor has said that opinions are important in thirty percent thirty percent of the time a second opinion would change your diagnosis or treatment i'll say to hear you present one in three times and second doctor would disagree with the first doctor's treatment or the diagnosis so please get a second opinion it is the best way to make this is the better patients are intimidated about asking for second opinions please don't be in a system very like butterflies fertilizing the flowers of medicine we become better doctors if you come back to us and say you know what i thought of the doc is they will maybe i should do this it will always inform us that every other patient we see or benefit because you were brave enough to push back in our diagnosis jeffrey rosen on twitter what's your workout routine i do seven minutes of yoga every morning to stretch myself out and do mice i do one hundred pushups and fifty jack they sit ups then i'm off to work with quick at night time if i have time i'll do something active but then we will work has happened on the weekends where i play
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a couple hours of basketball in the morning or tennis or some of it's something else where i can be someone who i can get beaten by somebody i think to compete a little bit and then i do a longer workout session with my wife is one of these that i think brings us together because a yoga is not about how loose you can go up the loo she were the more you are a loser it's more about experiencing as if you're the best eleven don droz of big things to a great guest be sure to watch the second season by the way of new york midstream here's june twenty fourth on a.b.c. gilda listen to find out when the dr oz show airs in your area you go a slimy on twitter at kings things will see it.
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the shelves are forced to. play. in the finish line of the marathon. nothing but. only.
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because. i was a go on guys happy monday i'm abby martin and this is a break in the set so washington politicians love the scapegoat illegal immigrants for this country's economic woes but almost never do you hear about the illegal actions taken by border patrol agents themselves when two thousand and twelve an independent report on this very topic was commissioned by u.s. customs and border protection or c b p was completed in february two thousand and thirteen except fifteen months later the report still hasn't been made public last week we learned that c.p.s. refused to comply with an open records request to release the report in order to protect a quote free and frank exchange of information among agency personnel right i'm sure does nothing to do with the fact the report offered up a polish storing picture of how immigrants are actually treated in this country.
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thanks to an investigation by the arizona republic we know that at least forty five people have been killed by c.p.b. agents and two thousand and five but in three teenagers that were shot in the back and perhaps most stunning is that no agents have been reprimanded for their actions furthermore the documents were provided to the l.a. times from the report the investigation found that border patrol agents do everything from intentionally stepping in front of a moving cars to justify using deadly force to firing bullets at rock throwers when they could just move away so if you think it's unacceptable for an agency to hide its own report out of sheer embarrassment join me and let's break the set. it was a really very hard to take a. look. at how exactly would that hurt me there's no.
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plea. well today was graduation for hundreds of elite students attending west point academy new york one of the most prestigious military schools in the country and at today's commencement ceremony president obama himself gave this speech but not to wish graduates luck in their careers instead he used the platform outlined his entire foreign policy agenda for the remainder of his term he started by prepping us for another cold war boasting for the millionth time somebody killed bin ladin and put an end to bush's wars even though he's leaving almost ten thousand troops
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in afghanistan past the quote two thousand and fourteen withdrawal but then he had some words to share for all those naysayers out there who say that engaging in constant warfare and military meddling around the world is actually hurting the country. has rarely been stronger relative to the rest of the world. those who argue otherwise. and suggest that america is in decline or a scene that's global leadership slip away. the rest reading history or engaged in partisan politics. yes apparently we're just mr reading history guys america's never been better than anyone who says otherwise is just trying to be partisan that's funny i thought that calling out both democrats and republicans alike for perpetuating policies that will cause the inevitable downfall of the american empire is the opposite of partisan but obama also went on to talk about how important the international community is an engaging in future foreign policy
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excursions. factional opinion mass matters that america should never ask permission to protect our people our homeland or our way of life. international opinion like the enormous outcry from world leaders in americans alike over the near bombing campaign in syria and pretty sure syrians aren't interested in taking away americans right to shop at wal-mart or eat fast food but of course his contempt for the international support wasn't the only orwellian things said obama's roundabout justification for the continued use of killer drones held zero water. take direct action we must uphold standards that reflect our values. that means taking strikes only when we face a continuing imminent threat. and only where there is no certainty there is a near certainty of no civilian casualties for our actions should meet
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a simple test. we must not create more enemies than we take off the battlefield. wow so basically what you just said is that every single time you chose to kill human beings with drones it was because americans faced an imminent threat and also somebody sends drones to kill only when there is a near certainty of no civilian casualties it really means about that if you're simply of military age in the vicinity of a strike well then you're just another dead terrorist not worthy of due process the oft repeated no civilian casualties line gets or more civilians dead are stacked up from the bureau investigative journalism up to five thousand two hundred sixty one people died by way of drones thus far and also according to bureau of investigative journalism the vast majority of drone strikes target domestic homes in pakistan over sixty percent in fact but all this criminal on accountability is ok because of one supreme notion. i believe in american exceptionalism with every fiber of
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my being. but what makes us exceptional is not our ability to flout international norms and the rule of law it is our willingness to what. this is an infant nation with an out of control superiority complex and the idea that americans are better and are given the moral authority to use a military force anywhere in the world is perverse and toxic and no other leader agrees with this they simply go along with it out of sheer bullying from the world's largest military bigger than the next ten countries combined in fact don't even get me started on the double speak. welcome to you to push to close gitmo because american values and legal traditions do not permit the indefinite detention of people beyond our borders obama wants to close gitmo so badly that he hasn't actually using his executive power to do it and the platitudes about how much you want to doesn't mean too much when you can easily sign national security waivers
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and close it today isn't just care about get most detainees having the right to due process he's also done everything in his power to make sure american citizens can legally be indefinitely detained first by signing and two thousand and twelve which included an unprecedented provision allowing the military to indefinitely detain u.s. citizens without charges or trial and when he was sued over it he placed an emergency stay to make sure the measure stayed in place and given the global upset over the n.s.a. spying machine obama speech just wouldn't be complete without a commitment to the surveillance state. that's why we're putting in place no restrictions on how america collects and uses intelligence. because we will have fewer partners and be less affected if a perception takes all that we're conducting surveillance against ordinary citizens oh my god obama you are spying against ordinary citizens it's astounding that he can get up there and say all of this with a straight and stern face but i guess it's to be expected because in
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a country that's more exceptional than the rest we better have the best liars to. female genital mutilation or afghan is a horrifying practice involving the partial or hole in the oval the woman's genitalia the practice is primarily associated with populations in sub-saharan africa or northeastern africa because it immigration is now growing in western countries as well the extent of that jam in the western world is largely unknown due to a lack of research so one woman who is a survivor of afghan has just received more than one hundred thousand signatures on a petition calls for the us government to commission a report on the issue earlier i was joined by the author of that petition to hard to grow and i started by asking her to outline some of the biggest myths associated with that g.m. . you know i'm not a people are sitting here in the religious obligation for him it's not that bright
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and really muslims all christian and you know back whole well they do it purely to keep women chat on terror of marriage because they believe right that right. that would make you free of religion until you get married and are married you were keep your great work here her and that reason where you have your own because they believe that you need a woman here and it all makes you clean that one man. that you know had been just that john you know from the generations the generations and now it's just been around so long that it's so hard to get rid of it and change the minds of the people that bitter old and there is no reason why and you want. right and bring it back to your story i mean when girls are mutilated talk about what happened to you physiologically physically psychologically. and what can happen
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other women as well. but me personally it happened when i was a week old and because of that i've been you don't remember the physical pain of it but just growing up and when i got my first. and being neat open back up that to me felt like this is the first sound this has happened to me and because of that and just knowing that something will crash is something that was a part of me was taken away from me something that i will never get back and something that i don't know what it will feel like if i hadn't gone to s.g.m. you know about it actually you know listen to what doctors and experts say about it but as implements i want to experience what that would have been been like and i feel like it's my god given what i was going to find it's got something really wrong with me he would you know not given me if there is an effect that that was. taken away from me is just something that you have to live with and something that
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you have to think about it. you know it makes you so conscious about your body and i know that most women that i've been to at can feel exactly the same way that i do where is jim currently practice in the world and would you say that it's on the decline or rise overall. to ms rice in twenty eight countries and this includes africa and the middle east but when you have western countries like america look here you have people that migrate to those countries and they've been big cultures and traditions and then do the things that they can easily abandon them to practice in western countries as well as a lot of people don't realize how widespread it is it's kind of internationally condemned in the media and political establishment but it's still being practiced were happening every day around the world to give us the give us a little bit of the inside on the scale here. it's estimated that read million women go through s.g.m.
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every single year and when you think about that and if you happen not only in other parts of the world where i'm from in the guns that were big long waits big in a group groups of girls and putting them through s.g.m. because that's their most and that's something that they've been events and fans that went to the united states that this is part of moving. you know they still practice it and it's just something that these people believe and a lot of them think that is a religious obligation that they have to do to kind of you know because. some kind of we are a lot of people have been brainwashed to think that this is something that you must do and anytime someone comes again that is the problem and then we have something called a culture of violence when women are not allowed to talk about their sexuality women i met lots of our audi feel when we know a woman comes up and say that well there's something wrong with my bad now bill good. then people that judge and you get their talking bad about you and i think
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that's why i'm kyung continues to happen because there's not a lot of the characters that are actually standing up and saying this is one this is now this has affected me and i'll run this act and my daughter i don't want this happening to my youngest this is it being actually institutionalized and being done by medical professionals are being done just off the radar here no in jim diplomat or md by medical but that's not the united done in secret and was the kind of good that being sent abroad with him and being done to them and then they are brought back normally when it happens it will really happen but yes in the midwest in the community is that not medically trained and sometimes they use the same razor and multiple kids and it will get them to these and other that these that they can be exposed to so it's something that we all need to be worried about as human this is not just the issue is everyone issues but human issue and i think a lot of people need to care about this issue and do more to help it go out there
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as i've seen long enough and why you should be born in america should still be at risk of going through something as inhumane and she at. duke or a activist survivor of female genital mutilation really appreciate coming on. thank you. coming up on talk about even more bad news for the city of detroit. technology innovation all the developments around us we. never heard. we welcome their innate in part two of the two of the coast guard t.v. network. it's going to give you a different perspective give you one star never i'll give you the information you make the decision don't bring you the work it's a revolution of the mind it's a revolution of ideas and consciousness in the sense to streamline your approach
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would be described as angry i think in a strong. single. feel bomb administration consistently touts the fifty straight months of private sector job growth and falling unemployment rate as a sign that the us economy is back on track but of course the unemployment rate is declining almost exclusively due to people dropping out of work force out of the workforce out of desperation and hopelessness and perhaps no city in america exemplifies the havoc that the two thousand and eight financial crisis continues to wreak in the city of detroit see back in july detroit became the largest me as
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a palette in u.s. history to file for bankruptcy thanks largely to a collapsed auto industry and predatory wall street banks that took advantage of the city's economic desperation now beyond the fact that the city's eighteen to twenty billion dollars and that detroit's pension system for city employees is b. is broken beyond repair and during bankruptcy negotiations city officials have offered up everything from selling out the city's art collection to slashing pensions by forty percent to keep detroit's finances afloat keep in mind that pensions are supposed to be guaranteed retirement funds and thousands of former detroit employees depend on for their day to day livelihood university of massachusetts economics professor richard wolfe came. the show a few months back to discuss this very issue. the bail out at the highest estimates of the city's obligations to the pensioners is estimated to be three and a half billion dollars by contrast the federal government gave to general motors
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fifty billion dollars general motors is a company detroit is a city which at that time of the bailout almost a million people democracy alone would say if you can be a lot of company for fifty billion you could find three and a half billion to save thousands of people's pensions. but it turns out that ring negative on guaranteed pensions are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the motor city's economic grief just yesterday a stunning report from detroit a light removal task force found that nearly eighty five thousand buildings are indicated nearly half of them need to be destroyed at a cost of two billion dollars and that's not just the monetary cost of this cleanup effort that's depressing the entire city the report notes that quote a light or urban decay is a drag on community energy to siphon on city vitality life is a strong return to economic investment and a proven threat to public safety why can be a source of despair or cynicism for people who have witnessed a decline of a particular building or neighborhood over time and consider that even if detroit
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demolishes seven thousand structures a year would still take a loving years to rid the community of these abandoned buildings with the broken windows theory at its finest it's leading to an fathomable crime rate in the city the trades violent crime is five times higher than the national average and its murder rate as a leavened times higher than new york city police even told people to enter the city at your own risk of course any capital investment detroit is the from the state of michigan would help at this point except that many of the same powerful forces that created the crisis are now trying to prevent even minor economic relief from happening check of this out americans for prosperity a political group backed by the koch brothers are actually lobbying against a state plan that would inject one hundred ninety five million dollars into detroit all to teach detroit's politicians a lesson because of course they're the ones who are really suffering here according to scott how from the michigan director for americans for prosperity quote detroit
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has behaved like this for thirty years politicians there won't change their behavior if they keep getting bailouts from the hard working taxpayers of michigan wow because i'm sure michigan residents would rather have their once prosperous city fall further into despair now with the amount of money the koch brothers have spent lobbying against this every day for. they could have saved the city's pension system themselves but hey every predatory capital of system has to has to have its sacrifice sounds in detroit it's just the latest city in the crosshairs. from fast food employees receiving poverty level wages in the u.s. to mere slave labor conditions by bangladeshi garment workers all around the world labors rights are being diminished and just last week the international trade union confederation published its annual report outlining the countries where the working
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class fares the worst and the best the report ranks countries on a scale of one to five point five million the worst protection for workers of the list denmark was the only country in the world to pull off a perfect score but sadly in a country where the american dream was once attainable the u.s. scored a dismal for disturbances to stick that reflects systemic efforts nationwide to stifle workers' rights over the findings of the study and what it means for american workers i'm joined now by labor and employment attorney ben victor thank you so much for coming on ben. thank you for having me so ben after reviewing the report yourself what sort of working conditions lead to such a low ranking on the list. well i think that what we can really glean from this study is that bad laws beget bad conditions and there's sort of a link to relationship between the two so where you have laws that don't protect workers' rights to organize you wind up seeing you know a furthering of those bad laws and the cycle continues so in the united states for instance the lack of protections for workers to engage in collective bargaining and
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to form unions and to associate freely with one another i was really over decades of time now resulted in the condition that we see workers in today and denmark and europe why are the leading the way when it comes to workers' rights i mean what's that's these two countries apart. was sure what the study looked at was what laws were in place and also. mechanisms were placed to enforce those laws when there are violations of way presents a really interesting example because of a law that was passed in two thousand and nine that really strengthen collective bargaining rights but also created some very interesting mechanisms for enforcement when say a union and an employer reach impasse on bargaining over a contract or wages the government can actually get involved and you know either party can sort of bring them into the picture to help settle the dispute and unions have relied on that since its passage and have really fought back particularly in the public sector i heard something from from a top stock analyst said that mcdonald's workers in denmark make four thousand
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dollars a month six weeks vacation and health is like a pretty good deal compared to the dismal working conditions for fast food workers here shockingly the u.s. received a ranking of four on par with kuwait which according the index means that quote these countries have reported systemic violations against workers the government and our companies are engaged in a serious effort to crush the collective voice of workers putting fundamental rights under continuous threat i mean that's pretty strong language and as you said i mean collective bargaining rights are pretty much been under assault since the one nine hundred thirty s. can you give us just a brief timeline of how we got to this point sure i mean really unfortunately the high water mark for collective bargaining rights in the united states was the wagner act in one thousand nine hundred five and before that time it was criminal in many states to engage in union organizing federal law eliminated those criminality is that it gave considerable rights to workers to organize and protected them from retaliation but since that time legislators have really chipped
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away at those rights and the state that we see today you know we have really a dismal situation in terms of what you are especially certain subgroups of workers rights are in the united states when they try to either form unions or collectively bargain unlike why when you reach impasse in the united states there's very little you can do you have the right to bargain but frankly the mechanisms for. making that bargaining mean anything in terms of you know real gains by workers anymore has really been chipped away at the tools that unions used to have especially the right to strike has been so strongly undermined in the past that in the decades after the wagner act that really there's not much left of that today and you know crushing of the unions and also just the phrase right to work is very confusing and people don't really understand what salt is that's going on from these lobbying efforts at the huffington post compiled some pretty stunning global comparisons to the u.s. for example many people have no chance of retirement to barely get paid time off work longer hours and more days then aside from just kind of this collective assault on
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a federal level how do we get to the point culturally where we are living to work it seems more than most countries. well again i lot of it i think has to do with the relationship between the decline in rights and the decline in unionization you know we have something like just over six percent of the private sector workforce is unionized and where you don't have organized worker power you tend to see right slip away you know a pension used to be something that americans associated with their job you know you work hard your whole life you retire comfortably and today that's no longer the case people in my generation have no concept of what a pension is and as the huffington post article points out many americans responding to a survey tell you that they'll work until they die you know that's that's quite a distance from the era where you had a pension for life yeah and i think a lot of people look at look at things like pensions and they're like oh i don't want to get anything for free even though it isn't they have this mindset that you've got to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and work for what you have even though that really isn't attainable any more than they're kind of forgetting about
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all these things that did exist for the last couple decades in your area of focus is the right for undocumented workers you've noted that the u.s. technically gets a collective bargaining rights to undocumented workers but there's no way they can exercise that can you expound. sure just over a decade ago the supreme court ruled that while undocumented workers have. the bargaining rights under the national labor relations act they aren't entitled to the fundamental remedies under that act that it forces right so essentially an undocumented worker can be fired in the course of an organizing campaign and be left with no remedies but you could have the national labor relations board step in and say oh well their rights were violated so it's sort of in a sense meaningless but this shouldn't in any way dissuade workers from organizing because the only way we're ever going to get these rights back and the only way labor is ever going to be able to protect its gains and regain ground is if workers continue to organize and continue to fight back like we see them doing in the fast food campaigns and in a variety of other campaigns especially right here in new york city but as an employment attorney i'm sure that you see
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a lot of things firsthand the struggle in the streets the report gives us a good idea of what countries are doing right what countries are doing wrong but little in the way of how to improve the conditions i mean give us some tools here of what workers can do to improve their lives here in america. they have to organize i mean there's a very simple answer to that question and it is that they have to organize you have to remember that like i said before the one thousand thirty five wagner act it was unlawful in many places to organize it was considered a criminal conspiracy to try to organize a union to try to fight for better wages and it was because people broke those laws and because of the massive waves of organizing that happened in the first decades of the last century that we were able to make legal gains this is a fight that's one in the courtroom it's one in the streets so workers really need to hit the ground you know there's going to be plenty of fights in the courtroom for lawyers to handle but the reality is all of the historical gains of labor have been made in the streets absolutely well said thank you so much benjamin dichter labor and employment attorney really appreciate it thank you. to close out the show
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you guys we want to bid farewell to the most revered literary icons of our time my uncle and aunt of them passed away at the age of eighty six and in north carolina home earlier this evening you can behind her life's work a collection of poetry novels and music that earned her pulitzer prize and three grammys. among dozens of other honors having worked alongside some the most important civil rights leaders in american history. also leaves behind a legacy of social justice that has transcended generations aside from seeing beauty in all things perhaps the most important message she ever gave us was to remember to love my aunt was words we spend precious hours fearing the inevitable would be unwise to use that time adoring our families cherishing our friends and living our lives.
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just so crystal let's see a. little it tastes ok we're done with. i marinate join a. church into impartial and financial reporting commentary interviews and much much. only on the bus and on a. world . series technology innovation all the list of elements from around
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russia we've got the huge earth covered. i'm. a society. i'm big corporation kind of can. do i'm the bag of all that all about money and i think that's like that for a politician breaking the law and what's. coming up. there just to plug. the days. that.
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notably go to go did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy. i'm. going to go on i'm sorry and on this show we were deal the picture of what's actually going going on we go beyond identifying a problem. rational debate and a real discussion critical issues facing america are ready to join the movement then welcome the big three. go on thom hartmann in washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture. in his speech to graduates at west point this morning president obama talked about his views on american
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exceptionalism thanks to years of neo-con foreign policies as america become exceptional for all the wrong reasons that more and tonight's lone local rumble had over the past few years to billionaires from wichita kansas the koch brothers have become the face of the modern republican party has been to happen and what does this say about the state of the american right or on that tonight special wednesday edition of conversations. this not one more one more person should die from gun violence in america tuesday thousands gathered it will morial service to remember the victims of last week's shooting rampage near the campus of u.c. santa barbara twenty two year old elliot rodger went on
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a horrific killing spree near the campus of u.c. santa barbara this past friday stabbing three people to death inside his apartment shooting and killing two women outside of a sorority house and killing a man inside a local deli before apparently taking his own life one of rodger's victims was twenty two year old christopher martinez since friday's tragedy martinez's father richard has made multiple media appearances displaying some very raw emotions and calling on lawmakers in washington to stop signaling sitting idly by while americans are losing their lives to gun violence here he was on c.n.n. over the weekend. what has changed have we learned nothing. these things are going to continue until somebody does something so where the hell is the leadership where the hell is this these people we elect to congress that we spend so much money on these people are getting rich sitting in congress and what do they do they don't take care of our kids my kid died because nobody responded to what occurred at
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sandy hook those parents lost little kids it's bad enough that i lost my twenty year old but i did twenty years with my son. but those people lost their children it is serious it's thirty years old how do you think. it was tied to their down who's. now who is standing up to those kids that died back then in an hour men through school why wasn't something done yesterday marching as spoke at the memorial service and again called on americans to take a stand saying enough is enough and he urged lawmakers in washington to pass sensible gun control legislation to look. mr layton i got a. first for me. they are still. a little early i was interested. to experience you're still. around. till death for the bad actually.
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did the united states and i want to protect that and the other to be mined in a dust bin are in my data stored procedures on the top of this situation is going to force we will see what. how many more times we're people are going to die. before the problem is. that it'll come in the normal manner so. it's not. will be rooted in the sixty's for the style of it by the way. which is then ask those the memorial service and people across the country to buy a pack of postcards and send them to lawmakers in washington with a message not one more. if you. should be should the top one. social media was. the last focus of the.
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right stop or. find the answers every politician of the things. that. now after listening to mr martinez is powerful words organizations like every town for gun safety and moms demand action for gun sense have launched automatic postcard programs so that all americans can send postcards to their lawmakers with a message not one more so isn't it time we all listened to mr martinez's words and took a stand to save american lives from preventable completely. gun violence that's rubble . joining me for tonight's low level rubble are under cluster legal fellow with the heritage foundation and cameron seward program manager of the heritage foundation
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thanks guys good to see you both on its own you heard my intro what i'm curious from each of you what is your best solution to the gun violence problem in america we have we have massively more gun deaths in this country than any other developed country in the world which is a bigger problem than just gun violence wasn't it i mean he just he stabbed a few folks and i know that that same campus i think at some lunatic drive a car into folks earlier so i think all those things happen but i'm talking about gun violence we have a serious problem gun violence in america what you know what any type of violence is really i mean in my personal opinion is is this is clearly a tragedy but any type of violence you have to look at the underlying issues and i just feel like this is a forest for the trees here with gun so we know that inequality in society filner is one of the major underlying issues so what do you want to raise taxes on rich people well i mean i don't think he is not of asians at least we might think that he was not telling the truth or didn't know what his real motivations were but his this elliot rodger's is specific grievances had to do with him not being able to
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get the type of sex that he wanted from folks on campus and elsewhere so. i mean we might say that maybe it was an equality that was driving him but but it was a different type of unequal but if you're trying to make the assertion that it's a this is a mental illness problem and deflect away from the gun problem number one this was a kid who had access to the best shrinks in the world and so you know i that's you know solving mental illness is going to i think those a number two back to the issue if you go back to the research that ritual has and kay pickett and numerous others have done but there are books of the best. why inequality matters. in the spirit level when societies become more an equal as the united states has in the last thirty years of reaganomics we've gone from being one of the most equal of the thirty four o.e.c.d. countries to being the most unequal in thirty years as societies become more unequal as t.v.'s go up pregnancies go up suicide goes up homicide goes up mental
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illness goes over it absolutely goes up and so you know if you or if you want to try and change the subject away from guns that's where i would take it i mean i still know we have a problem with guns and injuries not changing the topic away from guns because the issue here is not guns the issue here is mental illness and the mental illness has in this newsroom that is feel that and so this yeah this kid had access to the best sure it doesn't mean that it worked. he also had access to guns we had white australia in one nine hundred ninety eight they had they had that horrific massacre in tasmania and they did a gun buyback program they bought back seven hundred thousand guns we know in the united states every city where we have done gun buyback programs over the next three years you've seen decreases in both suicides and homicides as a consequence of that and australia has not had a mass shooting since then so maybe california should do a gun buyback program california i think maybe the entire company should well
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california's a problem sleeping with gun laws in the country yet you know gun violence is terrible in oakland if if gun control was was the answer to all of this then why is oakland one of the most unsafe places and i know this didn't take place in oakland but why why are the places with the with the most strict gun laws a lot of them why are they the most buyers of a surplus in such a simple answer to that is to compare the poorer areas of chicago where you have a lot of gun violence two identical poor areas demographically and racially in new york city where you don't have a lot of gun violence the reason why because the communities the states that surround new york city they ban the purchase of these you purchase the guns the suburbs around chicago have gun stores. and of course you can drive across the border as a gary indiana by gun so maybe so a lot more you need to do something nationwide so maybe california should consider that and maybe if it works in california they can export that policy elsewhere i think there are serious constitutional problems with the nationwide probation on
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these sorts of weapons handguns or assault weapons i think there are problems with that. so states can contest and i think that there was a failure here in california i think there's an underlying cultural rot as well i think that's the major issue here may not be psychological it may just be may not even be any quality it may be sort of grasping time and i don't even obsessed with their penises of the using guns and yeah i mean if you want to go freud in it that's the root of all pro bull i really i mean honestly i think you know it's only the second year to have a conversation about how to fix the mental health system in this country that it was john and i will no doubt he was mentally ill he this is not a mental health issue this he was mentally ill any at access to a gun. so there should have been more he had access he had actually access to many guns many why didn't you run out of that ammunition was a fairly i mean all that is really the failure of what he's like well your triggers are here to tell you you know this this is this is wrong nobody's buying the an evaluation of it if you buy it as you would this kid was rich he had access to the
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best shrinks and the guy may be part of the problem nobody's buying it sounded like they you know we have too many kids do a good job we have too many all right let's talk about american exceptionalism this morning president obama spoke about foreign relations at west point at a graduation ceremony he made an interesting comment about american exceptionalism and informs checa. american influence is always stronger. when we lead by example we can exempt ourselves from the rules that apply to everybody else. we can call on others to make commitments to combat climate change if a whole lot of our political leaders deny that it's taken place i believe in american exceptionalism with every fiber of my being. but what makes us exceptional is not our ability to flout international norms and the rule of law it is our willingness to a farm them through our actions isn't is a a very different definition of american exceptionalism than we got from george bush
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which was you know hey we can just go around kick anybody's ass we want you know we're going to invade iraq even though they didn't do anything to us at all we're going to invade afghanistan even though they offer to give us bin laden i don't care i'm going to go kick their ass that kind of american exceptionalism has been repudiated and obama apparently in the speech is saying you know if we are going to play a leadership role in the world we're going to do it by the conforming to the rules why don't you know work all this what you think about the effectiveness of the bush administration's foreign policy or it was a disaster well i don't sense of dead americans hundreds of thousands of dead iraqis at the i would argue that the obama administration's foreign policy has been a complete disaster up into this point and i want to point out the president is make an awful lot of awful lot of appearances with veterans and with in with the military and morial that what every president does every president. needs to be looked at what's going on i don't want i'm surprised that you think that you that you take this president seriously when there was more congressional involvement and
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more international involvement with with the bush wars however you want to call that so i'm not i'm not justifying what i the president doing but look see i think the bush wars were better than the obama i think there was more internet more of what i saw in the wrong. i would rather i asked questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question for.
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live. live live. talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want. well. i think you.
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should have you with us here today i'm sure. the bag along with cameron stewart and andrew kloster let's get back to it according to the federal reserve bank of new york. relatively credible source middle class jobs to go to the biggest hit during the great bush recession and they've been extremely slow to recover meanwhile as unions work points out over the past hundred years when there's been a larger union presence in the workforce has been less any quality and
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a smaller share of income going to the top ten percent similarly as union membership has declined middle class income has shrunk so if republicans want any chance of having a strong middle class again and to get us out of the great recession shouldn't we be encouraging more union membership the way republican white eisenhower did when in one thousand fifty six he ran on a platform of having increased union membership by over a million people in america well i think two quick points on on those two charts and the first is we sell richard nixon ran on those two right well he could talk about richard nixon's the richard nixon guy but when you when you're looking at the number of union membership decreasing over that time period it's because we're talking about an increased period of competition internationally. i believe that was right after nafta i mean our insane trade was right in that benefit and increase the average household income correct so when you go away for. the least since reagan's. competition they break up and and they are the
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losers when you introduce competition into cartels and that's what you're seeing right there is the i don't disagree i mean a certain level you're looking at david recuerdos labor enough to go back and read his paper that basically you know the price of labor is going to be a function of the scarcity of labor and by by taking down the barriers that literally george washington put up money put into place alexander hamilton eleven point plan the tariffs we had tariffs in this country in the twenty to thirty percent range continuously from eight hundred seventy nine until the one nine hundred eighty s. by taking down those tariffs we threw american workers who were making in today's dollars you know when reagan came into office g.m. workers were in today's dollars making an average rate of g.m. towers but they were the large they were largest right i mean you could eight yeah of course now you want anybody to introduce lexus you introduce the foreign car competitors you get cheaper cars and they're much better value and they last longer
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they could send you over to your bottom it's just like you and. certainly the same mechanism has leasing them and that people are having a wreck and people are leasing g.m. cars as well people are not voluntarily entering unions for whatever reason i just don't think that it's worth thirty dollars a day as a war on unions because it's a multi-billion dollar industry ok if you want to try and start a union in your workplace be prepared to get your head kicked ok well that that is part of the package of goods and ultimately wouldn't be what we should repeal to ask how it was at the beginning to it was a there was a war between labor and i wasn't used to pinkerton was and labor able to go out and murder workers short and there was any way. i would like to talk about that they had a real quick which is that you know there's a chicken or egg problem here which is that is that inequality. that is caused by by lower labor or is it lower labor caused by any quality or are both of these things caused by some third variable so i'm just not buying the argument that
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necessarily income inequality and lowering tariffs necessarily lead to lower union density it could be that as inequality changes that folks are deciding not to enter unions because you need to crawl waste a perfectly that could be an option well actually you may you could be right you could if what's happening is as inequality is going up the bottom half or two thirds of the workforce is just making less and less and less and getting more and more desperate for work because now they're having to compete against people making twenty cents an hour a vietnam. then yeah. i don't know where that was i don't know what so as wide oh that would you know i guess i guess we're operating out of differ baseline assumptions my baseline assumption is that unions are democratic institutions in a non-democratic workplace they balance the power of capital and therefore they're healthy things and they are good healthy both for democracy and for the economy you made in classically liberal than me yeah if you're not. they aren't they're not
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democratic institutions in a non-democratic economy is kind of the way i might even look at it well no i would strongly disagree because there are voluntary associations in there and there and you know unions membership is is elected so and if you're operating on the assumption that unions are bad the i mean we can we can probably agree about the things that are destroying unions but there have been structural things when reagan was the first guy to put in. forget his name his first head of the department of labor who is actually hostile to labor i mean and never been done before and started a war on labor that's been very successful we've gone from twenty eight to thirty four percent unionization when reagan came into office what seven percent of the private sector i think was ray donovan i could be wrong i don't think it's all right let's move along to c.e.o. pay the other side of this we're talking about inequality. the median c.e.o. pay in america is now ten point five million the first time median c.e.o. pay has gone over ten million dollars in the history of the united states. arguably
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inflation adjusted back in one nine hundred twenty nine it was at this point. nobody was really keeping good records so what we do know that inequality now is where it was nine hundred twenty nine. but it's increased fifty percent just the last four years this seems to me like like a you know as it is just this is out of control well the point to be made is that this isn't just cash being given to c.e.o.'s this is a lot of this is the overall compensation package which includes stock options some point five million is. direct compensation look like stephen hemsley i mean you know he makes what four and a half million dollars you know because seven hundred forty four million dollars where the ball make sure if you look at the companies are getting bigger and bigger so if you have a company that makes ten million dollars it's not worth as much to hire a c.e.o. that can increase the market share by two percent say as it is for a company that's worth a billion dollars that gets a c.e.o.
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to increase their market share by two percent i mean it's both it's massive in a way to differentiate and so it makes sense that he does in a. way to say you're saying that if i can steer a twenty one foot boat. and i can steer a thousand foot boat you know in or tanker that hold out much more products right. that i should be paid massively more through that thousand whatever the market in whatever the market i mean allow us now to salvage your boat is true which takes us ok which takes us to whatever the market will bear right do you get it because this is the argument you're making just a minute ago about unions you know as as the demand for labor has gone down the price of labor has collapsed what is it that is so rare that somebody would be worth being paid literally one hundred thousand dollars an hour people like what steve jobs no one could have done what steve jobs conspired with other companies to
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hold. the law created numerous again use of steve jobs created billions in billions and billions of dollars for apple and for them to pay one hundred million dollars or whatever his ok well this is or definitely want to give you another c.e.o. elon musk he's he's great at applying for federal money so i mean these are skills that not everybody. i disagree i just i don't first of all steve jobs started that company and you know he made it clear it was the top back he came back for a pay a one dollar a year when he came back that was a pay one dollar your same as lee iacocca's chrysler made they made their money and stock but but my point is if you are you really telling me that whoever the c.e.o. of mcdonald's is who is let's assume he's making the median of ten million dollars a year i think i saw last week that he is that there's not fifty people standing behind him who are just as qualified who are just as competent who are just as capable who do the same job for two million dollars a year i believe there are i think we've got
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a cartel here of c.e.o.'s i think something really stinks in this country and all of us do you think he's that rare there's such your way or skills running a big look at someone like like jeff b.'s and this is so much more valuable than somebody who does like for example brain surgery. this is a good if brain surgeon makes about five hundred thousand a year i don't it doesn't see it doesn't pass the smell test to me personally i mean i think that but on the other hand i don't know that i'm not that bad so i don't see that there are as i would be more about able and rarer than brains and i think there are lots of folks that possibly could do these jobs but the but here's the point i'm not equipped to make that decision the state is not equipped to make that decision they're not equipped to say you are a company and in here is the type of pay i can provide you with one scenario where that model actually might work where there actually might be so few people that there's actually a small pool of labor and therefore the prices being driven up for c.e.o.'s and that would be if one of the requirements for being a c.e.o.
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we know the basic requirements come from and from a good family you can travel in rarefied circles have a good education understand the business understand the business world but what if on top of that you have to be able to destroy people's lives and still go to sleep at night and to be a sociopath only about two percent of americans are sociopaths so if you take the percentage of sociopaths who are also who also went to a good school who also came from a good family who also you know had no business and now you're getting down to just a few so already now i'm going to say as you are so that i would be willing to stipulate that probably forty fifty percent yes if that's the case you are declaring war on the corporate right and that's right and you know. what i mean yours and you not choose their seat you change that because of the change out chainsaw al dunlop used to brag about the fact that he just fired ten thousand people he just destroyed ten thousand lives and he bragged about it it's always guys not associates we could bring back to what happened in california i why did i just wonder certainly there are there are very deep cultural issues here so i'm not
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i'm not entirely sure that not saying all c.e.o.'s are good people either i'm just saying you can't fault them for this being the only serie a dizziness that a managerial genius is in creating massive amounts of value for their take on cheney is too long and taking a small sliver of that as take home does he already knew or didn't. i'm going to tell us they survived but if and when and when companies in this era you only had to be one competent what is different as good of a company is that is what i'm saying is that what's different about running companies today from thirty years ago was that thirty years ago when a company sort of laying people off everybody thought something was wrong if g.m. or g.e. was laying off people people looked at the c.e.o. and the c.e.o. i'm self would feel guilty they'd say this is terrible we're hurting people now when they lay off people they get a raise so now when they lay off people the price of the stock goes up you know there's to be true no hey we cut our workforce by five thousand people the stock goes up one want to have percent the c.e.o. makes another have a billion we all know you know that is come on see you know you guys is also tied
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to and with that end badly no but that means that thirty years ago you didn't have to be a sociopath to be a successful c.e.o. and now you do because the business is what about is it just says that back in the day corporate c.e.o.'s besides looking at profit also had other things that they were looking at and perhaps the other was they were a little bit of the community they were and still going to vote yes they ran a lot of hard that's what so if the executive the label going rate is a zero is where god sort of things are improving you're saying well they're bleeding out you joined us when reagan james conversational so they could be compensated with stock they became they became almost. beholden to the stockholders and they abandoned you know as a market is much more complex than that come on but i would hesitate to point out where cameron and or thank you for your side coming up for many progressives the koch brothers are these symbols of the modern republican party but believe it or not the charles and david koch have not always been the biggest fans of republicans actually used to despise the g.o.p. is the party of corporate welfare queens so how did two billionaires from wichita
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become the face of the american right answer in tonight's conversations the great minds of daniel schulman and after the break. well. science technology innovation all the latest developments from around russia we've got the future covered. cool. the world. her. her. her.
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her her. her. her. her her. her. feel her. feel. her. her. her.
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her. her. insides conversations of great minds were going to take a closer look at america's most notorious pair of political subjects the koch brothers charles and david koch are two of the richest men on the planet you know the past few years ever murdered as the republican party's most influential kingmakers. hated by the left and lionized by the right but who are they and how do they get. in politics until they really believe in what they preach or are they just looking out for their own economic self-interest daniel schulman senior editor of mother jones magazine has the answers to this fascinating new book sons of wichita are the koch brothers became america's most powerful and private dynasty
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a must read for anyone who wants to know the real story behind the rise of the empire that some people call the coke to produce and joins us now in the studio dan welcome thank you very much great to have you with us let's start out with the basics how did you get interested in the koch brothers you know in the two thousand and ten timeframe you start to see charles and david koch become these political villains behind the curtain of all sorts of conservative causes. and you know once i started to look into the into their family story a bit you see first that there are actually four koch brothers not two you only hear about charles and david koch but in fact they have an older brother frederick david has a fraternal twin bill so in addition to their fascinating political story and their fascinating business story they also have a phenomenally interesting family tale at times tragic these brothers paired off against each other in
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a brutal legal campaign over the company that their their father bequeath to them after their father died bill took on david and charles essentially charles to charles starts running the family after their father's death in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven he's the he's the heir apparent frederick the eldest brother wasn't really interested in the family business. and bill and david eventually joined the company and what ends up happening is in the late one nine hundred seventy s. you have koch industries coming under investigation by a number of government agencies including the department of energy bill koch is is growing worried about about this and believes charles's anti-government philosophy has sort of influence some of these developments. he and a group of other shareholders are also have also concerns about liquidity the ability to extract money from the company he has a lot of other interests boating you know fine art you know he wants to buy some luxury mansions that sort of thing that leads to eventually
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a boardroom showdown between bill frederick and some shareholders on one side charles david and the management of the company on the other. bill ends up getting ousted from the company. a couple years later they end up settling in a few years after that bill decides that he's actually been cheated and this this provokes what ends up being more than fifteen years about fifteen years of legal wrangling between these brothers which was you know you couldn't imagine treating your worst enemies how these brothers treat each other enter the race here and your family as a word or. fratricide i guess is when you kill so it's not quite that bad but. yeah they hire detectives to go through each other's garbage bill legibly hire detectives to pull for the trash of charles and david their lawyers according to according to their attorneys bill claims that koch industries moles had infiltrated
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his company and was were stealing documents and things of that nature and at one point they even laid a trap for this this mole and made a fictitious document left it out somewhere in plain sight and they claim that this was eventually entered into evidence by koch industries in this legal case so claiming that yes indeed there there had been that type of subterfuge or interest. in this in a sort of like in iran's atlas shrugged novel dabney and i forget her brother's name you know they inherited the railroad from daddy and then turned it into a dynasty. the koch brothers didn't just start this company. tell us about their dead so their father grew up in the in the panhandle of texas he was the son of a newspaper man his brother actually ended up going to the newspaper business with
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their dad fred didn't see you know he saw that instead it struggled in business and he wanted to find make his fortune elsewhere he ends up at mit studying chemical engineering. and he has an uncle too that's involved in the oil industry and that's really it's really booming at that time it was in the one thousand nine hundred twenty s. you've got to know you you've got you've gone from just having a few cars on the road to having millions gasoline is you know there's a national thirst for gasoline in the in the mid one nine hundred twenty three answers a partnership with two people in wichita kansas one of them pretty pretty soon after that leaves the company. and they basically are peddling refining process around the midwest. in doing so they draw the ire of a company called universal oil products which was which was eventually composed bought by a consortium of the major oil companies the remnants of standard oil essentially.
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this company really letter after taft and and. the last of them up exactly but. they relentlessly sue fred coke and its partner for for peddling this refining process which. you know that the company basically pitches this as some sort of david and goliath story but in reality fred's business partner had been a top engineer for universal oil products before going into business with him so there was some evidence to suggest they were selling a what had been a patented system and they were and they were basically selling a pirated version almost there was some definitely some tweaks to the. system. but this company would certainly make me the case that they have stolen the process. but the end result is that he can no longer work in the us and he has to look abroad for contracts. he find because he's been his company has been busted this
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criminal basically no it's just basically he's. being sued and their customers are being sued so they can't get new customers one of the things that i think really annoyed this other companies that they had actually poached one of their existing customers so i mean it was sort of in some ways they sort of antagonize them this was hardball business yeah and. but so he had to go overseas he ended up he ended up finding then that finding the first contracts in the fledgling soviet union at a time when the us didn't even have diplomatic relations with the u.s.s.r. . the soviet awhile this industry at that point had been basically decimated it was totally primitive. and fred its company basically helps to modernize the soviet oil industry building fifteen helping to build fifteen refineries modernize fifteen refineries for which is company earns five million dollars so the seeds of the
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family fortune is really really built. you know in the in the u.s.s.r. when joe's tall with joseph stalin which is basically this sort of influences for ed koch's ideology and in terms that in turn his sons he was horrified by what he saw in the u.s.s.r. and the oppression of the people there and he came back valiant to do everything he could. to battle this menace. in the late you know from then on he sort of speechifying on anti-communist matters and in the late one nine hundred fifty s. he and you know a handful of other prominent businessmen are some into indianapolis by robert welch who we would know as the founder of the john birch society but he was with fred koch was literally present in the room when robert welch laid out his vision for this group and became one of its founding members and a national leader. so so that's sort of those are sort of the year was that that
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wouldn't that was nine hundred fifty eight it's a one hundred sixty four i did i was thirteen my dad took me to a john birch society me i mean they really had grown this isn't in lansing michigan oh yeah and by that point oh yeah that was it and one of the happenings of there and they hated your old partner oh yeah oh absolutely you know one of the things that one of the reasons you could tell when you were driving into wichita. that it was a bircher stronghold was the impeach earl warren billboard on the edge of town they were everywhere they were everywhere and it was and it was all about brown v board or you know i mean he had a whole bunch of other arguments were there all of that that was the one that really resonated particularly the self of. absolutes so so where did the. so where where did. we where did the the dad has this in a communist ideology. how do the sons react to this. you know they
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basically it wasn't just an anti-communist you know philosophy he also had some sort of anti-government sentiments that it crept in because he felt like he was unfairly persecuted by this this oil company through these lawsuits and there was an instance in you know they lost their first case and on appeal they lost their appeal it would later come out that one of the judges on this appellate court was actually bribes by universal oil products so he just he just you know part of that fed into his anti-government ideas now you know the koch brothers really grew up hearing about this stuff at the dinner table and you know their dad would often lecture them about how you know big government was not good and about you know the encroaching tentacles of socialism now not all of them sort of glean
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climbed on to this as much as the others you know frederick koch politically liberal really never got interested in politics. bill koch at one point actually. was considering running for senate in kansas as a democrat and he's given to sort of both parties you know of all of them charles koch was probably the most deeply influenced by his father's ideology. one story recount in the book is that a visitor goes to the family home in the early one nine hundred sixty s. he has a copy of ernest hemingway's sun also rises. charles koch opens the door sees the book cover and it's clear that there's a problem this this gets ask you know if everything ok and charles politely says you know you know hemingway's a communist so this this obviously can't come into our house but that's you know that's how deep it wants. and and david you know
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he's kind of the political face of the koch brothers but you know interestingly enough that really hasn't been his focus philanthropic lee over the years he does he obviously does fund conservative causes. he's really been much more interested in science and medical research but i find it hard of the smithsonian the smithsonian yeah or the david koch timeline of human history origin although at the very end it's got this thing about weather patterns over the years that makes it kind of look like there's. global warming is just a normal thing oh it's all right to its roots and really that was my interpretation of it i don't know if that was you know the goal that they had for it. but yeah that's that's fascinating i want i want to get into the the how the koch's have. worked their way into this modern political dynasty orthodox conversations with great minds of daniel schorr right after the break.
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i would rather ask questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question. i
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marinate join me. for kinda impartial and financial reporting commentary consume news and much much. only on the best and only on. i'm the better. side but i think corporation kind of can consume can do i'm the banker i think all that all about money and i'm just vastly sick for a politician writing the laws and regulations to attack rick thanks for coming out . here just to plug. today's society. that.
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stands for some. of the finish line of the era on. my. book. welcome back to conversations of great minds and speaking with daniel shulman senior editor of mother jones magazine and author of the new book sons of wichita how the koch brothers became america's most powerful and private dynasty so we've. kind of had this interesting find in the family dynamic colorful background of grandpa dad you know fred fred koch and the john birch society as oil business
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in is joe stalin association and and then backlash and everything and and this is the battle between these four sons. fast forward to more or less today david ran for vice president on the libertarian ticket in more than one hundred eighty nine reagan in an election you know tell me about the. well so interesting lee charles koch he kind of take you back a few a few decades just to fill in the blanks but so charles koch is it becomes a john birch society member and at a certain cheer of the birch society you have a group of people that end up. becoming involved with something called the freedom school which was run by a very colorful libertarian guru antigovernment guru named bob lafave from there humorous themself in the fledgling libertarian movement of that. era and decides that mainstreaming libertarian ideas is going to be his you know philanthropic
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legacy basically that's what he's done and what he's going to brazil's coke foundation which is now called the cato and so in the late one nine hundred seventy s. charles koch is actually asked. you know first if he wants to run on the libertarian party ticket charles is a pretty private guy he is he also has a company to run he's not interested but he mentions it to his brothers bill and david david ends up going for it and the whole point of running david koch on the ticket or a coke in general is that these are wealthy men and they would be able to sell fund the campaign thereby circumventing campaign finance rules because of a loop loophole the buckley vs the. yanks the lewis poll. so essentially david has not been too involved in the libertarian movement up until that point and that ends up creating some frictions in the movement because you
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know charles koch has been largely bankrolling libertarianism at that time and here david koch is you know running for vice president they don't want the libertarians don't want the perception that the koch's of essentially taken over the movement but then again here's an opportunity to they have to really get the libertarian party on the ballot in all fifty states and you know there's no there's no sense that they're going to win that's not there that's not what they're trying to do what they're trying to do is really get their message out. and they basically succeeded but what ends up happening in the one nine hundred eighty election which drives them them out of the libertarian party and kind of puts them on the course to where they are today is that. basically libertarians don't think that that the koch clark his running mate with clark ticket was radical enough. where you know they weren't calling for the eradication of sorts. i'm sorry of the income tax they were and also at clark called libertarianism defined it as
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a low tax liberalism hardcore libertarians went crazy over this the movement just fractures after this and the coax it gets a little bit too weird for them and they while still not abandoning the ideas they jettison from the party and so what's interesting today is that they've become republican kingpins they clearly have a power center within the republican party but really these guys are libertarians they're not social conservatives and now in sort of the bend of their beliefs there's really only a narrow area where they are in full agreement with with today's republican party and that's completely on economic issues yeah and this is i mean if you look at. the one nine hundred fifty six republican party platform that dwight eisenhower successfully ran for reelection for president on. it bragged about the fact that
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they had increases so security rolls it bragged about the fact that over a million new union members. bragged about expanding the social safety net. if it was just i mean that was my dad's republican party it was it was a passionate but but conservative back in those days bill buckley famously said you know conservatives a man who stands up for the arc of history was and i was shouting no or stop or other to me. change is ok but change has to be slow and incremental right and and and yet if you go i mean that was just you know sixty years ago from from the ice in our party to today and the republican party is radically to a radically different today in fact it's radically dramatically different from even when ronald reagan was elected to what extent and reagan was like an a.t.f. the. you know the year that david koch unsuccessfully ran for president to what
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extent of the koch brothers. have. the responsibility or credit depending on how you want to define it for this transformation of the republican party that we've seen you know in the last generation or so what i would really credit the koch brothers with and charles koch in particular is the mainstreaming of libertarian free market anti-regulatory that sort of philosophy on a lot of other issues they really haven't been terribly active so when it comes to the recent. debates about slashing government spending. you know entitlements and that sort of thing the koch's have absolutely played a role in those battles including through you know through their advocacy group americans for prosperity in this sort of these debt ceiling standoff especially the first one. so be they have certainly been players in this but what i see as their
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sort of legacy politically is the mainstreaming of libertarian concepts and you really see the republican party today taking more of a libertarian tenor i used to make a joke that libertarians are just republicans who want to smoke dope and get laid and i think today you could say and and are fine if their brother gets married but it's. it's it's gone beyond that i mean it's to to what extent. are the are there are these libertarian concepts that are well let me rephrase that the the libertarian world views as gay marriage is fine pot is fine effect all drugs should be decriminalized. you know these social issues we don't we this is not our business. but on the other hand do. tell me how much pollution i can dump in the air and don't give money to poor
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people because you're going to raise my taxes to do it or don't raise my taxes if you're going to take that tax money give it to poor people now those are equally those kind of four categories i guess or or economic and social is a two categories are equally passionately held by libertarians and in fact one of the things that's drawing so many young people to the libertarian movement is actually the social stuff the advocacy for you know ending nixon's drug war and tolerance for gays and or embracing gay marriage and things. and yet the koch's have never embraced those things they have only it seems correct me if i'm wrong it seems to me that they've only embrace the things that you could argue make them richer keep keep your social programs down so my taxes are low keep your regulations down so my companies can pollute and i can extort allies costs and internalise profits is that cynical view of the koch's activity grounded in any solid reality or is it just a coincidence you know i had
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a washington post op ed this past weekend where i discuss you know some misconceptions about the koch's political beliefs and i posed the question of you know can these guys moderate the republican party on certain social issues things like immigration to which they sort of dipped a toe into but haven't really advocated to any great extent but it's true they have not put really put their money where their mouths are on issues like reproductive rights or you know certainly not game our marriage a little bit on immigration he's guys are also civil libertarians they're they're anti-war. i think part of it is them having a very quite an easy alliance with the republican party at this time they might be afraid to alienate their allies like the republic. party i mean barry goldwater famously said to be straight to shoot straight i mean the republican party has not
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always been so fundamentally socially conservative before nixon promoted the drug wars in response to democrat nelson rockefeller in new york i mean it would be easy to say oh it was a bad democratic idea gone wrong i don't think the party would have a problem with your puny eighty nine dia's or changing ideas if the koch's or somebody with that kind of influence wanted to but again those don't make money for koch industries and you know so the question is you know are these guys out there just trying to line their pockets or from from you know all the time that i spent looking into these guys talking to people. i got the impression that these guys really are true believers and i'm not sure you know in terms of what's happened during the obama era with them. taking the high profile they are having their political activism you know that's not terribly good for it's not a terribly good business model you know and there is some risk to them by doing
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this in terms of you know in two thousand and five they bought the company george pacific and after years of not you know they they really operated a company that was so under the radar now you have them only a company that owns brawny and so you know things that you can sort of boycott if you if you wanted to of those never really been successful boycott them no i mean even the table grapes were a was race and you know. but you know so i don't get this you know these guys have more money than they know what to do with charles coke if you look at the way that he actually lives you know he lives a very nice life has you know his house in aspen there and his home and you know palm springs. but you know he's not. this is this is what motivates him people people say that charles really isn't. by money for its own you know for its own sake sake what he you know basically it's the way he keeps score and he's
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a very competitive guy in business he's got a lot to prove because you know he didn't hurt this company. but you know he doesn't want to be seen as just a trust fund kid and certainly i don't think he is that's it's a remarkable story it's a remarkable book sons of wichita how the koch brothers became america's most powerful and private dynasty and the question i want to ask i don't i don't have the time but why the very last picture in here is of a of two teenagers car that blew up from a coke industry pipeline and i'll just leave that as a question for someone else to ask you why that included in the book daniel thanks so much that great to meet you daniel to see this in other conversations the great minds go to our website conversations and great minds dot com. and that's the way it is tonight wednesday may twenty eighth two thousand and fourteen and i want to
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give you a heads up on that every town for gun safety organization it launched a postcard campaign to send a postcard to elected officials with three simple words on not one more go to every town dot org automatically send postcards to your member of congress and don't forget democracy begins with you get out there get active tag your it. was a. very hard to take up. once again here. we are back with their militant.
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feeling. slightly.
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on larry king now the one and only draws play you first now a t.v. personality and then a doctor i don't think so my life my soul my calling is medicine always practice medicine primarily republican or democrat if we don't manage will be seeded america no system will work is the biggest concern with question so will be a good doctor always feels that we was and every death all was s. and so what. i'm most doctors live on that little boundary of the pressure where someone dies and they are clean table i don't know if they died because i was so far away from success i could never have gotten through it or i was just one small little scalpel move away from saving clause i grew up like most of my generation believing that marijuana was something satan was in for get americans and a communist plot but i think most of us have come around to the belief that no one is hugely beneficial when used.


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