tv World Apart With Oxana Boyko RT July 9, 2017 2:29pm-3:01pm EDT
angela merkel suggested it should want to discuss that i'm now joined by young form and is torn in member of the european parliament this time it's great to have you on the show thank you very much for your time your welcome we're recording this program just a few days before the russian and the american presidents are expected to meet in person for the first time and coincidentally that meeting is going to take place in europe do you think the europeans should be expecting anything groundbreaking to come out of this meeting. you know. i will say that both presidents. unpredictable so here at least in this house we cannot we cannot say that we are waiting something something particular for it was very difficult. to get them together. it is so long. we waited for this for this meeting and now i really cannot say anything while waiting and waiting with great interest.
forever speak and i have no idea what will develop come of this meeting now it's interesting to say that because i am. i more or less agree with what you just said i've been covering international politics for more than a decade and yet i think in my memory this is the first meeting between the two national leaders where so much focus has been placed on personal connection as far as i know from the kremlin nor agreements nor documents are being drafted it's all about the two of them sitting down and having a chat he said save for the international system is that healthy for the international system when the communication between the leaders of two nuclear powers is saw peculiar let's let's put it that way. we'll see that president trump is under enormous pressure since he was elected and this pressure is most are related to russia and i believe that this is that is the reason why we're in this
situation now so i agree. i'm also in politics for quite a long time and i don't remember something like that now as far as i know trump is not particularly liked in the europe neither is putin i wonder who what would your applied more troubling eve these two would be getting along wow or on the contrary if they dislike each other from the start you know for all the very beginning since november two thousand and sixteen here in the gulf my callers are in big trouble. with such kind of rhetorical that europe is surrounded by my enemies. and one of them at the certain moment was president trump with his nature to erick's was also this on predictable became behavior and i have a feeling that things didn't change since that and from all aside. also in trouble due to the fact that he's administration still doesn't work in
a proper way and what about russia you know what you know what better than me. to which point our elations are now. at this meeting with great interest but i would say that was not not much my choke nowi you just mentioned how unconventional president trump is and you know we have the saying in russia the comparison is key to full comprehension. and i think we just had a chance to experience that in moscow with president obama he wasn't a great friend of russia when he was in office but i think a lot of people are starting to appreciate he more and more he certainly has some redeeming qualities compared to his successor. is that also the case with putin because putin certainly as you pointed out doesn't have the best of reputations in europe but i wonder with trump as a foil don't you think that europe may start to appreciate russia's leader
a little bit better that's a good question i have a feeling that. last month there was a kind of more pragmatic attitude towards russia at least some side of german and who is different the decision maker in your opinion. and maybe maybe you are right partly that now. why don't you tell what russia is slightly changing what you know we're kind of split. in this russian terms for with the baltic states with poland with of. the countries who are kind of more recent phobic let me say and there is no common position still was speaking about this only just before a meeting with putin trump is expected to make a stop in poland who's relations with brussels and the old europe are far from smooth even those tensions continue to grow and it looks like they will continue to
grow who do you think the baltic states will find themselves closer to is a burden in brussels or warsaw. really. i cannot answer this question i hope that we are able to be more constructive. to the previous experience i would say that we will be closer to to washoe unfortunately i personally i am i'm the first that i'm russian speaker doesn't matter but we were neighbors and we have to build up a more constructive and more pragmatic relation is that we have no now while we're relations with russia is kind of the zero point and this is not normal well it's interesting that everybody's relations with russia is kind of zero point but that zero point is different for a still one year and let's say for germany you mentioned the german chancellor already and she indeed sad germany should strive to have good
neighborly relations with other countries including russia she specifically said that that would constitute europe taking its fate into its own hands. do i understand you correctly that there is no chance of this kind of sentiment of you know good neighborly relations with russia emerging in the baltic states and the time soon. i didn't say that there is no chance but if we speak speak about germany in particular is under medical will have to speak about not seem to this is the reason of a kind of pragmatic thing and as you know baltic states don't like the project we believe that this is a political project and a medical claims that no no this is not political this is economic thing and this is the kind of disagreement but as i said germany is definitely decision maker here now continuing with these good neighbors theme you know there is
a saying the british saying i believe that good france is make good neighbors and the story of the country that you represent is indeed trying. to build a wall on the border with russia it is also one of the three baltic states the only . one of the three baltic states that means the two percent. nato major contribution so why is that not enough force tony to feel safe in the neighborhoods where russia is also present well the only member of your opinion of which do not have border with russia wouldn't have this border agreement as you know still the wall change nothing if we still don't have a border agreement what about nature and our commitment to nato it was a kind of political agreement which was made several years ago and yes weaponless money. more than two percent two point seventeen this is at the moment a political decision from the russian perspective and let me know if you disagree
with that no amount of nato funding or the no number of nato troops in a store when you will make historians feel safe simply because russia will have to respond in kind that russia will have to increase its military presence on the border with on its western border and that in turn will make its tony and perhaps other baltic states fill even more insecure so it's not really about the increasing the amount of equipment or the number of soldiers on the border it's more about solving the issue diplomatically you just mentioned that there is no border agreement between the story and russia who do you think should be negotiating died agreements would you rather see nato need go shape stoniest security on behalf of a store near all let's say it's torn in negotiating that whole issue or on the half of nato. no we have we have to solve this problem oversells this is all of our
letter all relations and nato has nothing to do that nobody will negotiate our border agreement except us. what about military presence for me it was like clear from the very beginning that we just have to make a choice if we want to have a more investment sit in our call. all we're still visibly preparing for war we cannot have both of the same time there is also a perception here in russia that this is a whole issue also stony and fear is. is not the real that it is essentially a political issue that is being exploited for domestic and sometimes geopolitical reasons do you share that perception the do ordinary stonings really believe that russia is out there to tag them and take their territory i will say is that a still in our society is in this issue i know real people who really believe that russia will invade us kind of tomorrow and yes you are right this is a political issue which is used always in
a stone and you are in like last decade. hell a problem is that we have elections kind of every year this year was go to the local elections next year was able to have fallen mentor elections that was able to tell elections to europe and palm and that will go into the presidential elections so well all was running for elections. and this is not a good time to be preselected it's interesting you say that because i mean i think it's widely recognized in russia the. russia under putin is viewed as an aggressor in many of the baltic states but. at the very least russia is the devil that you know you guys have known ours for decades now with trump in the white house i would claim that he's not only and then no no i think he's and noble character i mean the united states has just dropped major weapons on afghanistan on syria for a very questionable reasons i wonder if we have reached a point when the united states like russia also represent
a certain risk to still in the security. it is not the case in a still an unknown in a stone of politics at least know what is discussed in the thing but you are right here in the you're up. there aka. and that kind of kind of adults. discussions for us about europe and all me is much more fruitful. like three of us here and do you get a president i'll definitely well miss told we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. to the see. you there on the cheap. and then to all the countries don't
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i. i. i. welcome back to worlds apart with yana tom and as tony a member of the european parliament. mr i mentioned serial radio and i know that your recent visit to this country and your meeting with president assad was have only criticized in both estonian and european media i wonder though if privately in your private conversations. experts and politicians express the same kind of attitude because from my own interviews with the europeans i get a sense that they're desperate for the syrian crisis to be solved and whether or not they like putin they they still seem to be kind of welcoming russia's
involvement there yes absolutely right. for instance we would have chess embassy in damascus which was never close during the war. what to all the member states who opened the embassies and a lot of course this is romania and bulgaria and there are relations with the european union fruitless for emphasis still this picture is not that white and left like you can read in political. refugee exodus from the syrian conflict is now widely recognized as a major security challenge for europe the former cia director david for trance gave an interview just a few days ago and he called it a geopolitical chernobyl and what i find ironic here is that chernobyl that whole nuclear catastrophe was actually actually triggered by a full t. safety test would it be too farfetched for me to claim that the western position on syria is also partially based on the full understanding of what makes the world and
europe safe and secure you know the first thing i would argue that refugee crisis is the only syrian problem it is much wider of course with the refugees from all the. and also from low enough it's not this not the syrian issue and another thing which was i recently read a couple of news. you and i share reported the syrian refugees are coming back to the country they're going to aleppo all their will to damascus and nobody realize that they'll go to territories which are under such territories wish under such control which means that they are not afraid of him and this is the thing we are overlooking totally what about the attitude was western position you know frankly speaking i cannot i cannot formulate what is europe in position to was syrian crisis i see absolutely no position well at least in the beginning i remember
because i covered that conflict from the start the position of many european countries was that europe has to stand up for democratic values and that's why it has to support this armed uprising against the leader that many europeans receive as a dictator and as a killer of his own people now i don't want to get into the discussion about assad per se but don't you think i wonder if the syrian crisis in your view has taught europeans anything about you know the promotion of democracy and values has there been any lessons drawn on that front i believe yes i believe yes and even in my callers who are. who are willing to support a democratic opposition in syria i didn't see any democratic leaders or democratic opposition oh whom we are supposed to support and i didn't see anybody who would really believe that if we eliminate assad from power legs there will be
a democratic elections of course not can you imagine democratic elections was announced of al qaida it's just impossible i was wondering if the problem here is not so much the democratic elections because behind we have a number of countries like. for example of data stand or iraq where elections do take place but it has very little relevance to the actual security in the country i wonder if it's if part of the problem is perhaps conflating democracy and security because those issues to me at least and to russia i'm sure seem to be to die in desperate issues that desperate issues that have to be discussed separately . i believe that you are right but i would argue about democratic elections in syria it is impossible for all this numerous opposition forces they do not cooperate between between themselves. so if it is not doable
it in i don't know several he has at least and another thing with us is that president assad seems to a lot of syrian people more prefer belches now speaking about security in europe many russian experts believe that the station in ukraine despite a march lower does told present a much higher danger to the unity and security in syria in europe do you agree that the syrian file is actually far more troubling despite the fact that it is not a full scale war and i'm not able to pull to put them in the least like number one number two number three you cannot prefer one thing. of course though there are all security risks definitely. if we speak about ukraine for baltic states and for poland this is one more reason to speak about possible russian aggression in all syria but ukraine many in russia believe that tactically president can may need
a low level conflict simply as a as a tool that would distract attention from the lack of reforms from the very slow progress on all those promises that he made to the people of ukraine after. hi don is there any seeing is there anything in your view that moscow can do or you or for that matter can do to change that calculus if that is indeed the way he seems you know i personally believe that until we're still stick to him is because green months will not move forward pose absolutely clear that. president poroshenko is one who really doesn't like me into the music agreement. when the claim and blame putin that he is not fulfilling misc agreement will forget the fact of president bush and the fact that he has to explain in key of why. did he agreed with them still this is this is a problem and when we're speaking about this to create an issue we still stick an
minute in minsk agreement and this is a big mistake in my view now the events in ukraine created. a seemingly permanent tax on both russian and european industries and by that i mean both sanctions and can't counter sanctions i heard you say dad they're unlikely to survive beyond the summer of two thousand and seventeen but here we are they have just been extended how long do you thing they will stay in place. you know i said this several times that i believe that like in upcoming months sanctions will be when believed that no this will not happen and i really believe that. it will not happen in. that i cannot say i gotta say the. i think that avoid a kind of vicious circle and you are not able to get out of it we still know and baltic states poland we already lost russian market this is a problem for us and i believe that this is not a problem for usha mr tom let me ask you
a difficult question that i mentioned before that. at least from the most this perspective part of the reason ukraine is not hurrying to fulfill demands agreements is because it does not have an incentive at least an economic incentive if europe loses this incentive to. you sort of regained its share on the russian market don't you think that the ukrainian issue will be forever alive in this slow boiling state there is a certain risk that it will become a conduit for frozen conflict yes definitely there is there is a risk now many european leaders recognize that sanctions that were introduced as the european response to quote unquote russia's aggression in ukraine those sanctions are hurting the domestic economies it's not a controversial issue there's also a recognition that this measure is not very effective in changing the kremlin's calculus but there seems to be the lack of just difficult political just defecation
for the real europeans to reverse the course can you think of anything that could possibly change that what could possibly make the europeans to see devalue for themselves or for russia in changing the course of believe that the problem is that it is very difficult to say to save our face this is a problem people perfectly understand what's going on or what are the thousand all the sanctions really doesn't work one not one not able to achieve the goals which were. so to say put on but. there is this kind of no choice but i will argue with the fact that. the european sanctions is the thing which undermines our economy economic ties and all this is a national call to countless actions. which which makes our farmers and our director to suffer and as he pointed out russia has managed to. he used
the sanctions in its own favor by introducing counter sanctions and also growing its own agricultural sector in the last three years that the sanctions have been in place i wonder if the europeans can to use this moment for their own benefit for example it is well known the president poroshenko of ukraine is strongly against the lifting of the sanctions again because of his own internal political reasons but i wonder if europe could use that strat of lifting of the sanctions to encourage him to be more active on the reform frog to. in a way blackmail him in a good mannered she encouraged him to be more transparent and be more active in building the good governance in introducing the rule of law transparency all those issues that have been promised to the ukrainian population and that i think you would agree of is made progress on the reach hasn't been very significant over the last three years you know i'm not a big specialist on ukraine. i've never been in ukraine
a serious conflict so i cannot speak from my own point of view but as far as i know from my colleagues there is a certain disappointment. due to fact that there is still huge corruption. it is very difficult to deal with and europe is kind of getting tired can i ask you one final question of which i think. expresses the one thing in common between the ukrainian experience and perhaps these thorny experience it seems that most of the former soviet republics that sought to integrate themselves into into the west have stumbled across the issue of after the nationalism. there is so much it seems there so much afraid of russian subversion that they seem to create the conditions for its own hands by ostracizing or sometimes discriminating against their own russian
minorities is there really no better way of. dealing with the issue because that i could make i could easily make a case that dive plays directly into the kremlin's hands if indeed kremlin wanted to subvert domestic politics be the in ukraine or in the stone ian you know there are two things for me first is. that really all was a void discussing all things related to discrimination the russian minority in a stoner for wake up to solve this issue is also elves without help over russia thank you and the second thing is that the discrimination of the national minorities is the very culmination fortunately in europe there is discrimination to was remain an minority and hunger and got on minorities and all men and so on and so forth all this guy and the related. national minority is often taken a security risk for in a country and unfortunately russian my knowledge in a still ne is the same or it will cause problems all non-citizens so without
problems there was discrimination but we're trying to shoulder in the. political reality which is your opinion mr it's not that i was suggesting any recipes for estonia i was just suggesting that perhaps. the time that it takes to solve those issues is not really playing for stone is own benefit but anyway i really appreciate your observation and your being here thank you very much for your time and to our viewers please share your comments and on twitter facebook and youtube pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here in the worlds apart. from.
i think the u.s. russia relationship is very important and has suffered and we need to make it better there's no question about it we need to cooperate on so many issues on nuclear weapons on syria on iran on energy on trade. possible in the dubrovnik in venice are all fixed travel destinations so it must be nice to live there or is it. kind of crowds of tourists disrupt the city's economic and social life before this on the celestial get out of the traditional story son nas i am somebody to see that as we don't spend money in a school but there's a lot on the people while the cities try desperately not to collapse all powerful