tv World Apart With Oxana Boyko RT July 13, 2017 9:29am-10:01am EDT
and handshakes it made their world order falling apart putting aside media hype and lowered expectations what did this summit actually achieve well to discuss that i'm now joined by howell james professor of history and international affairs at princeton university professor james thank you very much for your time it's good to have you on the show it's a pleasure to be with you while professor james on the eve of the summit you rode. the hamburg meeting could become the group's meeting but putting aside the clashes between police and protesters it seemed fairly amicable lots of smiles and handshakes if any among the people who are known to dislike one another were they just putting up a front or was it a genuinely successful meeting given the low expectations on the state of global affairs today it's always been good that people can talk to each other they did talk to each other there were always number of important bilateral meetings but i think the senses the. g. twenty process is really a bit has
a teaching or it was very very important the beginning of the global financial crisis the biggest success was really back in london in two thousand and nine and i you know i think you can see at the moment ways in which this process is just running out of steam and the obvious the big big story of the summit is the isolation of the united states. so you may make that point in the in one of your article suggesting that just as the international community to isolate russia back in two thousand and fourteen that the twenty summit so has the united states isolated itself in two thousand and seventeen and i wonder what do you really mean by isolation because both putin in two thousand and fourteen and tromp in two thousand and seventeen took part in the plenary sessions they haue bilateral is important bilateral is a two part in the family photo so what does isolation at such event really. entail
is it not being invited to some off to party what you know i didn't mean that nobody talks to them or are nobody and writes them to parties i mean there are intellectually isolated in that. most of the world nineteen members of the g twenty have a vision about the needs to deal with carbon dioxide and the question of global warming so i'm really quite a long term problem but something where immediate steps are needed and the position of the united states in the current administration is skeptical about that and thinks that it's more important to keep your island gas industry going and keep. make the united states into a big oil and gas exporter well i guess i'm just picking up on this award isolation because it's understandable that any given country may have second thoughts about any given issue but it's still participated in discussions and i assume its allies
d. try to persuade it one way or another why do we have to bring that isolation term in because it my view it's almost like a high school day now i'm a green sort of bring you into the group or like you and to be ostracized if we don't i mean there is a great deal of this going on at the moment you know i think you could also say for similar reasons that the u.k. is pretty isolated in europe and. the question of being excluded from a group you see prime minister may not going to some european events anymore and being left on the margin of a european events i think in general the world today is a much more fractious place a much more contentious place than it was in the early two thousand well that whole thing about isolating somebody really gained a lot of attention in two thousand and fourteen when president obama famously. a
claim that he is going to isolate russia and russians at that point and i think still. apologies for interrupting well the part there if you want to watch that you can go onto our website that's r.t. dot com at the moment we've got the russian a foreign minister sergey lavrov he's in berlin right now he's finishing off a three day trip across europe and he's expected less to meet later with his germany counterpart. speaking to. recover from and so we're going to listen in studio where this way of thinking this way of discussing certain leaks certain false information false news to talk about the u.s. well they had eight months of investigation of a you have not presented not a single fact or revenue they just say you just keep saying well some from a team of the new president met some journalists some business but only be some
long talks about something i could not comprehend how grown up adult people can be concerned with such a thing well it's a bit longer than just know just then worry it's not what they say. you know by then i thank you very much mr lover or not i still. like. to see an erosion of trust between the e.u. and russia. and maybe the discussion about interference in elections maybe this is only a symptom of this trust that has been lost what do you believe the e.u. could do and russia could do to regain this trust. i said that already it's not up
to us but to be opinion we don't hold any grow each and the decisions taken by opinion absolutely out of the legal fear and we well probably would know who was behind the wheel and we know who did this in their opinion and our side up in union now we take all possible steps in order to ensure the growth of our country which would be independent of search probabl confrontational and. international law scenario. before and by our partners about to do same time we continue to trade with opinions and our biggest collective traits partner investments well in the flow of the best move this is a very simple substantial well almost no he decided to leave russian market and i regularly meet with businessman. and they are
far from being set just why was this happening today if you remember at the very first stage when there was a coup d'etat in ukraine well we can discuss that i believe because. i see that the people don't really understand the facts. the roots of that what happened in ukraine well it happened and russia. decided to save and protect the people who decided to refuse the instructions and the willing of the could eight star. activists and who wanted to retain their culture and their language and to continue using it and when they sanctions. don't really now. remember the names but the businessman from germany they suggested that the economy should not be a secret files for the sake of politics and the garment of germany said no that's
the very case when we should teach russia a lesson and that is why politics and policies would be enjoying the primacy while the economy would be out of the question. you see we want to have a gradual development of cooperation that's what we want. i know. what i'm pivots he should have mentioned ukraine mr lavrov and i would also like to ask your question so let's start from the foundations. how would you define the strategic interests of russia in ukraine what are the three main cities you can trust of russia and ukraine well we can have maybe less maybe more interests it depends on how you word that we want ukraine to be and normal state
a democratic state to we want worst the government the authority as we chart today within the has of the radicals who we answer to no one including the supreme leader that those radicals are put out of the. power they have a monopoly on power they have. to tell you and some are ready cause to block block dumbass for example are mr approach and go he said that he's going to leave that blockade but he failed to do that after that he just made it legal issue and in order decree on that we want ukraine to be stable joist ability to be a country where all minorities languish minorities religious minorities afric minorities can enjoy a good life enjoying the rise which tried by the international conventions and.
documents and we want ukraine to be a country. where we are. i see no artificial afeard stew spare up russians in a phobia we don't want ukraine to forget its history and to write near history instead putting of the same board those who saved the euro from the naysayers and those who collaborated was them we can talk about that at a great length i believe. in our side we want good neighborly relations with the equator and we want our western colleagues who have their own programs and i mean the eastern partnership program we don't want to make our neighbors ukraine in other countries around us to decide whether they want to be with the west all they want to be was russia and it started long ago two thousand
and four when there was the first revision of the mind on square and it was karel de gucht in belgium who was the minister and he was speaking about all that when these things were getting nastier he said that ukraine should decide with whom is going to be together on the same side with russia all with year up and the example of the recent crisis when it was just starting two thousand and thirteen and mr putin talks about that many times the european union back there and refused to. i agree on certain integration of steps to be acted by ukraine to integrate into the c.i.s. and a year of at the same time so they said no we're not going to change anything we're not going to change a letter in the agreement on association that we don't care about russia or what it
wants and the obligations they took on them it just were opposed to its rights and its obligations towards the c.i.s. the only thing we asked to do you have a negotiation to sit at a table or discuss it we don't want to we did want ukraine to be in between the year a b. countries and russia it's like you know we don't intervene in your relations with china so we don't intervene in our relations with ukraine that's what we heard from them and after that they kind of. i mean our colleagues from germany france and poland they said that the agreement when mr unocal beach and the opposition which was guaranteed and secured by the man next morning it was nothing. it was an empty document they they didn't care about that no one wanted to talk
with the opposition say that they betrayed and they betrayed ukraine because year of guaranteed. the implementation of that agreement what they said they said well mr unocal we should left and that's why we are going to do anything but the agreement if you remember the words and the wording it was not about missing a car which in there to be with mr nickel we should promise to refrain from the use of any forces loyal following bodies or military except for ensuring the protection and safety of governmental buildings and there was the first part of the document which read we so we are determined to create the government of national unity after the evolution they said well you can congratulate us so we created the garment of. those who won we are the government of the victorious that's what they said that's what we proclaimed and year up and the usa who supported the decisions the
agreement they just well they just swallowed it they did nothing which well i'm about to finish my answer but there are certain interesting facts about double standards involved here when these two could a car could a tying ukraine happened we also see the same credit in yemen and place in the hardy clear fled the country to saudi arabia and he is currently in saudi arabia but unlike the ukrainian scenario and despite the fact that both presidents left their capitals the president of yemen before president. everyone in the world that we demand him to be back to the country to be back to his position of president but in what way yemen is better than ukraine only what way ukraine is worse than i mean that's a question. i would like to ask and we never interfered in elections in yemen never
. happened and that's good to know mr love rolph so you just spoke a lot about the genesis of the europe or the ukrainian crisis and all parties have their own views on what happened but let's look into the future. why shop. may be. one can look at some. neighboring example of a country that. sees itself as a part of the russian world and at the same time feels that it can come closer to the e.u. without creating a confrontation situation that could shatter the country so what do you think. in case of belarus russia what. could be done can this be opposed to for example unlike what happens in ukraine. i don't see that european union today is ready to frame for that one street game one
street road and they just make all countries and in front of their choice we all of them and belarus is our allied country our friend we have many treaties and agreements ensuring their rights is equal in the rights of our citizens and their citizens throughout many years we've been explaining to our western colleagues including those from the opinion that nature that the course store was isolation of belarus is not bringing any good and it should be part of the main structures on the continent it's not member of the council of europe just yet but. in the west they just prolonged sanctions again and again pay no attention to what we say but well today we see that the last moves some positive movements on that process really happened only after the crisis in ukraine i'm not talking
about the motives above the reasons probably we all understand some of that as for the roots of the crisis in ukraine that is. but a violation of international law our ukrainian neighbors after the coup de. in kiev. they said that the russians should be put out of crimea because the russian people could not think like the ukrainian people think and the parliament they created after the coup d'etat well they even adopted a law limiting dress tickler limiting the rise of the russian speaking people well it wasn't implemented but still we saw the entire nation that was their first decision to discuss and to present such an initiative well we don't forget that and don't you should not forget that those who are called terrorists in
ukraine they never attacked anyone of the just said we did not accept that coup d'etat leave us alone we want to understand how to leave further and what is going to happen in kiev we just want to see that in return they just call them terrorists and they proclaimed launching an anti-terrorist operation they at tag those people and they that was in circumvention of the. constitution in crimea the supreme council. decided to call the referendum and it was all started when the twelfth i mean the council was convened and when the my down crisis happened and. when there was blood our european colleagues including. rasmussen who was general secretary of nato he publicly made it times asked you know which three frames from the use of force towards his own people and after the
coup d'etat spent and when they started the anti-terrorist operation against the people of ukraine well what nature said back then we urge the new government in kiev to use the force proportionately shoes you see in proportions that's a difference and well we all see what kind of force they exercise and how they do that. that kind of direction towards using the solution we have and. we haven't seen that but we have likely the normandy form or two it started in two thousand and sixteen we do welcome these efforts and germany and france they did. and they expressed their willingness to make those who are responsible make them accountable you know to strive and to find a solution which. would guarantee the security and safety within the country and i
should say that that kind of formal certainly plays a very important role and that is a good example of how we can find common ground and reach a compromise and the means could remind everyone. adopted them as we only package of measures to be implemented and the security council also. allowed that it is the only document to be abided by and we also have the contact group absolutely important magazine rioli structure which also involves directly the government of ukraine and the government of the dog and they sat sit at a table i discuss directly things and from their eyes they have many options to implement the miscarry moment and that means get women and it should be implemented in full chancellor merkel she confirms that she's chased to continue to push
for the implementation of that document and the madam across as the france after he was elected he also expressed a lively interest and whether to continue or apply all efforts on that track in order to make the agreement implemented. mr lavrov i am convinced and we're going to have questions from the audience on ukraine. but before i lead them to that i would like to ask your question about trust. we have already talked about nato and the complicated relations between russia and nato and both sides continue to claim that they are engaging in provocation in the remit of rising europe and so on and so forth in september of this year russia is going to have
a military exercises together with belarus. and as for forming new trust. maybe you shouldn't have these military exercises or postpone them. well to agree on the scale of the military exercise and to formulate certain measures which would characterise confidence building measures which would allow was to lower the level of spurs we need to cooperate for that. let's remember two thousand and eight the other big games in beijing mr secretary they attacked self a c.t. and we the russian federation we had our men our workplace keepers their station according to the mandate of the un and we asked to convene the nato russian council because i said no we are close in that format we don't want to talk with you within that format and remember the way. the later. saw the two thousand and eight
everyone said well that was a mistake we should have the talks growing in old at all times and we should have that formal open door should be open and that's what they said after the coup d'etat ukraine again the same mistake we the west put on ice all the contacts within the format of the russian nato council. we had very. good programs for example on in fighting the terrorism russia france germany have been working together to ensure the the installation of this static system which allows to detect explosives at public spaces that's was a unique technology call advancement but they put it all a nice including the cooperation on the afghanistan track now the one to. make a. living again and to be to make it
a living organism well we know that in the nature of the we discuss the upcoming discussions with the russians and i should say that not business talk prevails not discussions on how to over. the tensions prevail but we see the anti russian cinephile big minority prevail over those they want to make russia accountable for ukraine say that it's all about occupation and extension and other things if you want to have russia nato council for that then there is no use for that counselor told but we are ready to talk we would like to hear all the voices. i hope it will hear the voices of everyone despite the very. distinct voices of the entourage and so the minorities we understand today that the deployment of the military infrastructure of nato just on our borders. when in the baltic
states germany and canada the united kingdom stationed their troops and the u.s. station their troops in poland many weaponry in units started battalion you know they say you know nothing to be afraid of only one battalion here one battalion there. but it's kind of symbolic it kind of make you recall the past and what happened before. certain analogise a merchant of the year ago or present of finland. voice an initiative and they are not members of nato but they are truly interested and they have a very tranquil and calm. situation around them so they. suggested initiatives that russia nato should be flying over the baltic sea with their transponders turned on and our country we well we drafted a document when we even introduced certain new measures and one year ago of the
meeting we had it over to our colleagues but nature just they show no will they still work and there they say that they want to lower the tensions but they are not a few stick about truly. working on that track so we have been blamed for violating some fame but we see that the that nato builds up its military but then sorel far exceeding the agreed amounts we say one of the safe thing why can't you have the russian nato council you discuss the following thing well experts professionals in the military should sit lay out the maps and take this stock of all that we have on the both sides of the border of what you have and what we have that's how we should be done and that's
a professional approach to that that's leaves no room for any am to talks and of course we should go back to the kind of cooperation on analyzing and comparing the military doctrine to serve our country against something new which they put on ice we are open for talks and as for our partners whether they are open or not well we cannot make them sit at a table everyone should decide that. on the. they were just watching that the russian foreign minister sergei lavrov speaking. at the end of his three day trip across europe many issues in the ukraine crisis nato russia nato council the e.u. russia relations lots there to see and you can continue watching the rest of the session on our website at www dot com and we'll be back at the top of the hour with our regular news program.
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