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tv   World Apart With Oxana Boyko  RT  August 13, 2017 10:30pm-11:01pm EDT

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there. are a. ton of welcome to all the parties the election of donald trump has polarized american society in many ways including in its attitudes to what's clever and what's appropriate trial supporters still see him as a shrewd smart deal breaker the salt of the earth while his critics describe him as the ultimate in their amorous worthy of nothing but contempt is there any middle ground between the two to discuss that i'm now joined by lawrence krauss as theoretical physicists and cosmologists as well as a merciless critic of donald trump mr krauss it's great to talk to you thank you
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very much it's true it's great to be here i think i'm a merciful where to go from that number to look at what i do know far too kind to him let's talk about that but. a short while a little bit later because i want to ask you first about russia i know that many people in the united states believe that russians. are just decides of the same coin but i beg to differ so i want to bring what brings you here to this country i came here for this amazing geek festival the to talk to thousands of people about so it's been an amazing experience like i'm just overwhelmed with the reaction and the response and the fact that people seem to really appreciate what i'm talking about absolutely you have fair a very big following here and i'm saying that. also a certain degree of pain because. it's become increasingly difficult to bring people like yourself scientists they faced in this country primarily because of the tensions between russia and the west have you. at any did you have any hesitations
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about coming here no the only only this station had was the difficulty of getting a visa frankly i wanted to russia for a long time because it's so different or seem so different that it was it was there was some tension but i've been here many many years ago and i want to see how things change absolutely you actually wrote on twitter that the last time you were here was sixty seven half a century ago and i assume visiting moscow back then was far more extravagant for a foreign there yeah special young person i was i was thirteen years old when was the fiftieth anniversary of the revolution first of all and i wanted to i wanted to see what it was all about it was a very different society and it was amazing how did you manage to organize it because i don't think they gave it wasn't wasn't easy but there was a i came with a group of students and and we and the group of students was taken care of very well and i have very vivid memories. of that and also how different it is now.
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you mentioned that it is different now but i wonder if you had any feeling of because many in the united states believe that the russians at just the same as the soviets yeah you know i think that you know that kind of ridiculousness is just the experience of people who don't travel and don't realize that in every society people are are largely influenced by individuals and their friends and human life is much the same an aspiration so much the same and. it's really in some sense pleasant to see one hears from outside about tensions within russia about economic problems with russia and the sense i have of everywhere i've been is that it's just people enjoying life and enjoying each other well it's a very vibrant society and i think it's changing on just by the year it's changing by the month to be had you know major protests. i will read about a lively during the protests might be difficult but why oh why do i do it why. are the fly. and then democratic society of course you know it's great to have
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protesters problem if you're trying to get from place to place well anyway you come from a country whose president is now being hounded for allegedly inappropriate ties to russia and i know you don't like mr trump much i heard you describe him as somebody who's been cheating and lying with impunity his whole life as a real estate developer how much of that attitude is based on facts things that he has and how much of that is basic human tragedy somebody who is obviously very different from you oh there's. a form or another the letter i. could listen to the man i've been listening to that man for years and years i was listening that man claimed for years that brock obama wasn't born in the united states insisting it wasn't a case of going out of his way to embarrass everybody including himself and then you listen to what he said in the campaign and as president everything he says is just what he feels like saying at the moment has no connection with reality you know i don't mind people who are ignorant if they know they're ignorant then it's
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ok because they get people advise them don't trump is a man who's no idea how we really is and that's dangerous for the man is present while speaking about people who are device you wrote in one of your articles that tom's appointments are alarming you said that they can be seen as part of a larger effort to undermine the institution of science and deprive it of its role in the public debate. can any president live alone trump you certainly. and only the capacities and dollars undermine anything in four years especially given the constraints that your constitution imposes on the president well first of all he appears in many cases to be violating the constraints of the constitution and for sure the republican congress doesn't seem to mind but yes unfortunately it's a lot easier to do harm than good as any political leader i've seen that happen and it's happening right now undermining the environmental rage of the united states backing out of the paris accords. by executive order he changes the picture. and
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right now by undermining the environmental regulations he's he's ultimately going to result in deaths of many people. and it's true that it's true that paris is nothing more than a bunch of words i've written about this paris was known before that that required and it's not going to come into force until i think two thousand and nineteen when he will be in just a year from of the united states but for but the united states is perhaps the only major industrialized country the world it was the party that controls all three parts of government denies the existence of climate change i mean denying the existence of reality is the announcement of science public policy should be based on empirical evidence and when you do knowing critical evidence your policies become ridiculous but it's across you know i had a chance to talk to the head of the environmental program a short while ago and even he says that you know what that trunk likes it or not is not god think of a deal because you have the state of california which goes its own way you have
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many businessman who are in a quite set on furthering that agenda so again i'm asking you whether it is all about what he says or actually what he has that has he done any harm well first of all he's done very little he's managed to do very little because he has no idea what government is all about he's not hired any advisers most of the positions in the brought federal bureaucracy that are meant to support him from the state department to a national science adviser those positions are empty because he hasn't named anyone so he has no advisors to help them and when but one of the few things he's proposed are very bad especially if the congress enacts them takes health care reform united states is one of the only major country in the world that doesn't have health care for say hey it's not because of challenge i mean that you're young and she hasn't had that maternity leave for decades and that's not because that's the kind of many many parents actually i was critical i've been critical of the fact united states doesn't have government supported health care for years and years but now what he's done he's an active policy is going to. take twenty three million people who are
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insured before and make the moment sure in the united states if you lose your job that's when you lose health care can you imagine a time when you need that the most and they'll do respect i'm sure your friend that some people disagree with their rationale behind the obamacare and they have their own arguments against the program i mean you disagree with them but my credential arguments are floating with donald trump as is done is just say i don't know what to do but let's get rid of it i mean he's done that in almost every area of government activity same with think of tax he said we're going to think i've got your form and now we have it at the actual where there was no pieces of paper there was no description what is going to be said we're going to make sure that that income tax is lowered for everyone will talk is cheap he's a man who talks and doesn't do anything and then claims after the fact that he's done it to you know when he had a cabinet meeting you know if you watch his cabinet meeting recently where he said no president in u.s. history has done more than he has now it's now purse that sense to me and and
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explain to me is that it has any accuracy whatsoever no i don't think it's accurate and i know you accused him previously of trying to obstruct justice but i think it's also a statement of fact that he's governance is being obstructive people not making a secret about it but barack obama's governance is being obstructed for eight years to buy up by a congress refused to do anything for example the constitution requires the senate to confirm a supreme court appointees of a broke obama for one year he has a record appointee that they refused to confirm that in my peer opinion is dereliction of duty in fact it's criminal and i say mr as a matter of then trying to mold in mr trump in the most cruel terms don't you think that perhaps the american society needs a broader conversation about the structure of its governance and about their fish and see what's covered but does you think that they i don't i don't hear any debate on that point is you can't have a discussion or debate with that. but you're absolutely right in order to have
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a rational discussion with people in order have rational opinions about that you can debate you have to have some knowledge of what's going on and there are many people there many people on the right and the extreme right who. are aware of the issues of international security and the environment and the economy and those should be a constructive discussion and in order to have a discussion you've got to have a populace that is informed the fact that trump could get elected with a series of lies and distortions is a reflection of fact that the voting public could be convinced by that and what we really need to do and one of the reasons as a scientist i'm interested in this is we really need to get people to apply the same standard supposed to be applied to science skeptical inquiry empirical testing the demand evidence for what your politicians tell you so let me let me ask you a question about that because it seems that's when it comes to trying both you and i think a large part of the american political and media establishment have become very very obsessive and that condemnation is not only trying but also he's
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a legit collusion with russia and so far we haven't heard any hard evidence on that i mean you know i know of no hard evidence of the real the real the real thing the don't you think that that poisons the nature of public debate much more than whatever tom could ever do and well the point is there was evidence there is evidence that there was an attempted interference in the election that ad there was no evidence at least i'm sure you have back you know there was certainly evidence for hacking of the election while there was evidence of hacking but if you look at and that's of great concern now wherever it came from it's because what it does doesn't matter whether it was russia or not what it does undermine faith and democracy and that is incredibly important that's my concern i'm chairman of the board of the. united states and one of the reasons we moved the doomsday clock forward there were a number of reasons but one of them was for the first time so i ever terrorism cyber hacking was beginning to undermine faith in democracy when i'm more concerned is that whether or not it happened the president is not allowed to try and. up an
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inquiry and by the way that's what's going to bring him down not the collusion was the fact that he he she demanded that the f.b.i. stop doing what legally they may do well they had of their who also decided to leak certain information to the media that know why there wasn't any that's not a leak well but that's certainly on to minds the institute of presidents if the president comes up and says i demand loyalty i want you to illegally stop stop they . going on and if you're a spy and them i'm going to fire you when you refuse to do that if you're a responsible public official i think you point out that there's a real problem with the governance involved and i think he did i'm not a big fan of call me but i think that was the road can i ask you something about the intelligence establishment because. russian collusion started one thing that constantly comes up. for the by the hads of intelligence agencies and they didn't really tell the public how they made that assessment they didn't present any evidence so essentially that's an argument from authority as if you were and is it
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good enough for you i haven't heard you voice any concern about. the quality of the public debate about trump you may dislike trump but i think it shows how to keep certain things. secret until this specially when they're doing an investigation so i'm agnostic about this right now as i am about many things without evidence but one of the things that is true and it is interesting is that a number of officials and in the in the trump administration met with russian officials and denied it and that's of concern because what's the point of low as you said they had to man it doesn't seem to be very rational what are the chances of him surrounding himself with rational people but may not be coming from him it may be people who in fact a person like that who was so ill informed is easily easily swayed by people and also let's face it as far as i can see mr trump throws his whole life is acted. for
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with one goal and that's for donald trump and dr donald trump's aggrandizement what has he done he's put his is family in the white house and one of those members the family is just some of the who happens to be strongly affiliated with groups and in russia and who in fact was trying to pour money for from russian banks to build to build it to pay for a sky trigger all in the middle of what he was supposed to be advising the president we have to worry about it's all russian banks are one time merican sanctions they're trying to get capital for themselves and i don't i'm giving it to anyone let alone just like there's an old conflict of interest and i have no problem with people trying to do capital from russian banks to build things in the states that's great i happen to think free trade is really important thing but one thing i think is if you're a government official you have to distinguish between things that enrich you and things that enrich the society in which you're supposed to be protecting ok we have to live in syria just for a moment i need to take a short break but then we will be back in just a few moments thank you. what
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politicians do you should. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president i'm sure. some want to be rich. to go on the press it's like that before three in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the water.
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welcome back to worlds apart where we are talking to lawrence krauss this across just to finish on the trump's point. you mentioned before in one of your interviews that you believe that the use of nuclear weapons is still a major threat to humanity and this is the argument that the trumpet ministration is using to. try to persuade its critics that. the relationship between our two countries russia and the united states do not need to get any worse can you agree with him at least on the whole i agreed with that statement before the presidency but he's done nothing since then to act on in fact tensions have gotten worse since he's been president he is going to say he was made by the russia delusion started minutes his administration that has now increased sanctions on russia ok but but here's the point that say men who talk if you're talking about reducing the tensions let's talk about possibly using nuclear weapons in europe suggesting japan and korea get their own nuclear weapons this is this
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a man who does not understand the nature of nuclear deterrence and i really actually i really wrote at one point and i was writing a letter in fact if you want to know to the report into trying to say you can use this opportunity to cut down nuclear tension this was an incredible opportunity for trump to reach out and say i can have a personal relationship and together reduce nuclear tensions that would be. an action which would be worthy of the nobel prize you think you can afford that politically at this point of time i think that for better or worse i think you know for anything political he has a congress that will not criticize him when he did things he was supposed to they say well he's new to the job we've got to give him time but if you can you can be guaranteed if it was anyone else they would have not only criticize they would in fact have already and launched impeachment proceedings well now they're still going ahead with this rush and didn't think that republican administration was and they were probably ok i think embers of congress i mean initiators of the russian bill i
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think you'll agree with me that you neither you nor i know what the real story is. i think there's no real story we told you about you know i think there isn't a story and the american media is running away with it without any evidence that they say that in a year we went with half something hold on. do you have any knowledge of this personally because i'm willing to say you may be right but to think of something and to and to have suspicious. one thing and it's fine i have suspicions but i think both of us should wait to see what the results and how long do you think we have to wait and see to see the results because as i said this story has been running for here it's clearly obstructing things that are looking to get any on the air every week i hear i hear new things and new facts in the media including the most recent between. prisoner and and russian banks i just hear new things all the time i think the far bigger story in united states than collusion with the top administration to win the election. which may or may not have affected the election
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in the long run anyway much more concerned i'm much more concerned with the running of government issues with direction of justice issues of incompetence issues of lawing issues of inaction are much greater concern to me than anything else your a book is titled the greatest story ever told so far and it's about the history of physics and modern research but you know the words great or great this is such a low that weren't in the american political context there were at the ranch it was working to you. what does this word mean to you what do you mean by that great well what you may not know because it. was a takeoff of a movie in the united states called the greatest story ever told which is the story of jesus so what i was really doing was taking off on the bible story and claiming that the story of the real universe is so much more interesting than the story the bible. i absolutely know about this movie and moreover your book most of the chapters in your book have quotes i just read them there's
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a lot of good quotes in the bible so absolutely we're aiming for this reference i wonder why did you need it why do it why continue talib the history of science without bringing the religion and well i could i think there are a number of reasons one one is i wrote a book called the physics of star trek i think i try and make connections to popular culture because for better or worse while most people actually aren't they don't know their. they're afraid of science but the other thing is that in our society especially united states. people are. discouraged from making fun of religion and in fact that is the basis of science in my opinion the basis of democracy is that nothing is sacred nothing is above ridicule nothing is above sarcasm and if we keep tiptoeing around the nature of religion and don't point out that look this story of the bible is simply ridiculous if we don't come out and say that then we're never going to be able to get to to counteract the reactionary and
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terrifying attitudes of people about other people religion brings people apart science brings people together well. i'm not sure i agree with you here because you know when i was reporting from syria i came across lots of people who'll fall in the last psychological about future invasion and i'm saying that as many as an ac is no no no there's no doubt that religion provides for many people solace community many things would be so prevalent the universe if it didn't have an evolutionary basis if somehow i did and why would the need then to ridicule it the point is that. we can ask what is religion provide and can we provided a way that actually correspond to reality you don't take things like homosexuality you know the reality is that homosexuality occurs in all mammalian species at least ten percent of time but then there are people in syria and other places where the united states who because of their religious beliefs hate homosexuals so much that
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they're willing to kill them but at what i guess as you know is why they reveal has to be the instrument because this is to be a pattern and they're both in a risk a season and with you you're ridiculed on trying to ridicule religion but i think if you do you think this is at an effective mass and a free chain to people because if you read equals something that people like they they will be turned over or i agree that you know it requires a thousand words i used to have this debate with richard dawkins who i thought. if you will too much and i think what you have to do is try different techniques sometimes. to go around and ask people what their interests are do you think asking questions is really important but being afraid to have fun being afraid to make jokes i think humor is incredibly important to get people into something i still have my science and humor in politics or which relate to religion but i think you're right that some people get turned off but i'll tell you what since i've been involved in this my attitudes have changed because i used to be in some sense more
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willing to let religion slide through but i've met so many people here in russia and everywhere i go who tell me that they feel guilty like bad people simply for us being the question does god exist and i think it's really important for public figures to say you know what there's no evidence it seems real it's a vessel is it ok again i'm an atheist and i'm inspired by your books but what i'm asking you about is not the message but the style of the message well of your message you know i can i give you an example i talked to a number of girls and sara yes you know somebody who seen their entire families portrayed in the front of their eyes who've been gang raped before they turned sixteen and they you know the only reason why they survived was because of their belief in god i mean they and they were abused because they will never believe and i would never take someone who was coming up to me with their deathly ill and they have a belief in god i would never i would never i don't believe in ridiculing people i may demand of labor but i mean they may also be interested in science in what you
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have to say and when you deliver that through the channel afraid to kill well no no if you look at my book it's not ridicule my book is about the wonder of the universe and the whole point of my book is the real story is so amazing we don't need the other stuff we don't need to take refuge we can take refuge in the fact that we've a common humanity that here in this universe that has that has no evident purpose and it will. the future which may be miserable we're here on this remote corner of a planet in the middle of nowhere somehow however evolved a consciousness that allows us to study the universe back to the oldest moments with a bang to understand each other to understand the universe we should celebrate the wonder of our intelligence and use it instead of ignoring it. i heard you say before and i think you partially expressed it here as well the bible other holy books and god are completely irrelevant when they are trying to understand how they will work as god never comes up in the world is not just about physics the world is about emotions that world is about the sense of community the world is about and
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religion and ideology will occur it's not just religion there's ideology whether it's communism capitalism those ideologies and religion have played an incredible part of human history they still do but what i want to point out for people is some people think that somehow god is significant in science and that's not the case i've been a physicist for forty years not at one scientific meeting i've ever heard the word god come up because i understand the universe and everything goes on with with it we don't have to talk to mr krauss your book is about the evolution of physics but there has also been an evolution of faith and most really want to nice religion absolutely if you go there if you go to the mosque if you go to the church they're trying to steer clear of those fundamental questions about how the world was created they and their approaches in them at all are you talking to a very different set of people than me i find that in fact on the whole fundamentalism is fundamentalism whether it's along with fundamentalist christians or you know i mean bill if i may hold on and i was under mantle as most religions
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are quite mainstream or you know what most people call themselves religious because they like to think of themselves as good people in fact and because they like the sense of community that religion provides especially in these estimates we're going to give you a bit of empirical evidence of this fact so richard dawkins foundation did a survey of people in england who called checked off christian under the sort of the census of years ago fifty three percent of the people said they were christian they were. do you believe in the virgin birth you believe in transubstantiation believe in and they said no no no no no and that's why you call yourself christian because i like to think of myself as a good person and the problem is that religion has a monopoly on more all of you right now and if i say i'm an atheist you know in united states there was a study of people done and the least quest where the people were atheist. now there's something wrong with people say it just doesn't convince me i'm willing to ask questions that that makes you untrustworthy whereas if you're a. priest who rapes little boys you're more trustworthy i find. disgusting well i
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think people are far more complicated and they're capable of holding many controversial ideas and i have them i know some wonderful scientists are deeply religious people can hold. different ideas at the same time it's part of being a person we're not fully based on reason but the all i'm saying is that religion should not have a monopoly on morality i actually want to ask you about their richard dawkins because i'm a big fan of his and i interviewed him he is famous for saying that he doesn't care about what's good or what's evil he only cares about what's true and isn't that and ask a piece of sword because when he only cares about what's objectively true and he missing out there a whole lot about this planet horse well look i think perhaps the right agree with you there the point is we're humans and there's much more than just the reality of the world around us because we interpret it we make actions and ultimately as i said reason is a slave of passion we have to decide how to govern a society we have to decide what's good and bad that may change over time i think
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we should largely use it period to reason and logic and reality to trying to decide what's good because i don't think you can even accurately decide what's good unless you know what is and the only way to know what is is to keep your own open eye on the world around you but i think you're absolutely right we need to talk about how to deal with each other better and science may not provide the answer to that but science provides information which. the answer and i would argue that does so much better than religion absolutely and i hope all those wars again and why it will lead to people you like and people you dislike anyway mr cross it's been a great privilege for me to talk to you thank you very much for for me and time and to our viewers please share your comments and i'd twitter facebook and youtube pages and help us here again same place same time here on all the part.
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with make this manufactured consent to stick to the public will. when the ruling closest to protect themselves. with the flaming. lips and neither will. we can all middle of the room see. the real news.
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one person is killed as a call rams into a crowd protesting against a white nationalist unite the right rally in virginia president trump condemns the violence while his national security adviser calls what happened terrorism. and in other stories this week all t.v. launches a campaign to bring home russian speaking children left behind the islamic state funding for the liberation of mosul in iraq.


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