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tv   Headline News  RT  October 13, 2017 1:00pm-1:30pm EDT

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areas do the same we are apparently better than food let's see some people you've never heard of love back to the night my president of the world bank though kate was really pretty seriously send us an e-mail. live pictures here of donald trump the u.s. president is expected to announce he's decertifying the iranian nuclear deal the u.s. secretary of state has stressed that this would mean the end for the agreement also gave. the financial rules and over one hundred billion dollars. five more children arrived back home to russia from iraq but they were taken by their parents who joined up with i saw our panel of guests will be debating sure if and how such children can be reintegrated into society that's coming up live in just a few minutes. very
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good evening to you my name is the harvey and this is r.t. international. now we have been reporting on the children that are channel found at an iraqi orphanage who are believed to be sons and daughters of foreign eisel fighters most recently five more children were returned back home after they were recognized by their relatives while in iraq but as we heard from the russian children's rights commissioner they could be just the tip of the iceberg. it. is hard to say how many children remain in iraq but according to our data we're talking hundreds.
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a case a complicated subject let's bring in a panel of experts to discuss what. and what perhaps should be done regarding the fate of these orphans introducing go from left to right as i look at it we have. an independent member of the european parliament good evening to you and they sent a lot of some good for me un human rights officer and visiting professor in international relations at the american university of rome good evening and on the right of our screens human rights lawyer and activist gary daly there are no simple answers to this i suspect but it's going to be fascinating to get your views to you gary first we're talking about obviously the children the sons and daughters of i saw fighters in your opinion what's the best way of dealing with this issue of reintegration or not to reintegrate. before you use the phrase first and foremost first and foremost these are children
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are not responsible for the actions of their many fathers or their mothers and they should be treated as individuals in their own right to have protections on of the convention of the rights for children and each country whether there are foreign born countries foreign born children if they're from turkey or from russia or from wherever those states have responsibilities to those children. if we looked at if we look at past experiences like the children of to use a horrible example the nazis those children were effectively reeducate and they were reintegrated into the society by you know showing them the benefits of society i'm showing them the wrongs of what was. carried out in their parents' names. and i just want to say at this point if any of our guests feel strongly in opposition to anything that's being said feel free to jump in of course allow you have a speaking to get their say in as much as possible first journey these children
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taken to iraq by the how these parents or some of them born inside the caliphate what about the challenges of reintegrating and what are perhaps possible dangers. ok well looking at the data on this there's around about five thousand just given birth to children in the in the caliphates when the fall there's a killed the mothers then go off to the camps and they take the children with them we don't really know the numbers are in the camps but what's happening in the camps is that the the children and the parents are actually the mothers are being rejected by other people in the camps the british and the french said that they're not going to take the women back they've made themselves state this and that's quite right but then again you have to think about what constitutes the age of the top child some of these children are being used as suicide bombers. to blow up. large forces and if they're twelve years old does that still constituted child and
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your your guest was quite right about what happened to the nazis but the nazis were completely obliterated they ended after the second world war we have got fifty thousand jihadi is free turned from syria and other areas that have come through the borders ass are open borders crept in with the so-called refugees and economic migrants what are we going to do about them because they're not going anywhere so we're c'est inmates at that we've got five thousand up to thirty thousand possibly sleeping in our country at the moment so what constitutes a child and basically these people are not going to go away loyal is that is that the crux of the matter what point do you start treating somebody as an adult or somebody who cannot be brought back redeemed in terms of their mentality in the spirit and at what point do you say they're still
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a child and they can be served. well actually i have to take issue with what with with what janice just said there is a very strong consensus in the international law. according to the united nations convention on the rights of the child a child is defined as anyone under the age of eighteen years. of age and that means that the definition is very very clear in fact every single state has become a party to that convention except the united states so there are very strong conventions explaining in international law what is the definition and most countries have. integrated that or implemented that definition international law so there's no question about that that's quite quite an easy thing for the law from the point of view of international response. the law that's in it is well that's their argument but wait
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a second i know what your debt or not that is but the reality of law as an individual company. doesn't actually reflect what international law rates and i think well international law and needs to be no no but remember muddling through. no there's no there's no question about that i mean you're making a valid bottom in their eyes you're mixing up two issues with respect because on the one hand the definition of child is very clear the age of criminal responsibility which genesis raising just now is an important issue and but that doesn't mean that if you commit a crime you're no longer a child i mean that's just a non sequitur what the issue is is that. a person who is under the age of eighteen and who commits say a war crime or crime against humanity can and should be prosecuted for it down to a certain age and most domestic jurisdictions recognize that for example in the u.k. or for him from canada or from other jurisdictions you could be prosecuted in juvenile
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. court and with special protections for the child and according to procedures that protect the best interest of the child but still be held criminally responsible so let's not mix up let's not mix up the issues between criminal responsibility which is important and the definition of the child otherwise we're going into the realm of. the logic ality by saying well if you commit a crime when you're seventeen or sixteen or fifteen or fourteen or whatever it is you no longer a child but that does not square with the very strong universal consensus on the definition of child well i just want to. play to get his views just because. what you've said are we trying to apply a western standpoint to a part of the world that the people live in a very different way you could be dealing with the children as young as ten years old posing with rifles who've been living within. a terrorist camp and have been
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brought up a certain way and they're obviously growing up very differently and a lot faster and a lot more aggressively than children growing up in the u.k. is it right to try and apply the same on the legal principles to children in that situation what do you think. well new. lawyer referred to there and i mentioned earlier the convention of the rights of the child. most states apart from america have signed up to it including iraq and those rights apply to the children just as much there as they do in ireland or the u.k. and to treat children differently just because there may be different cultural norms would be a horrendous state of affairs and i just want to pick up something that your your panel member has is concerned mentioned there about open borders i volunteered for quite some time in the cali refugee jungle and the jungle refugee camp and colony in northern france and there were many children there and in fact
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a very great parliamentarian in the u.k. called or dobbs pushed and pushed to have an amendment to the immigration legislation that was passed and i think two thousand and sixteen in the u.k. on accompanied miners brought from the comp in cali and across europe over to the u.k. there was a viral and all full reaction in the top annoyed british media required children who were being brought across fourteen fifteen year old children were being brought across because they had been through awful situations it was written across their face they didn't look like arabs they were vilified in the british press and. children away or no one to say a lot of his absolute i was i didn't do i was absolutely correct to say you're absolutely incorrect i worked with those children and also. worked with those children all of their ok well i'll let you in clear i didn't mean to say that
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children are a refugee. ok i just want to bring john one here and. i do want to bring back in johnny's but first of all i want to hear from the russian children's rights commissioner she was saying that it's still possible to fight the radical ideas that may have been instilled into children by the jihadist let's just hear what was. done was arrested got the right influence good intentions and outlook of relatives and they take care of such young children can reduce or even count all the radical ideas indoctrinated in the internet and in iraq is well known that the vast resources into a child's psyche and now for a high chance of rehabilitation. i mean would you go along with the maybe a lot of hatred in some of these children may have seen family members killed they may have been told to hate the west or hate certain religions or mentalities do you think they can still be so. i'm
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a mother of two. being the greek and i've been to a my heart goes out to them but very very very careful how we rehabilitate the trouble is in our country is that we've still got seventy thousand children of our own care we don't have the facilities we don't have the psychiatry's we don't have the foster carers except i hope so i mean you've got very few less children in russia. to fight the caliphate and i know that you've identified a few hundred i hope you can rehabilitate them with their families but you've got to look very carefully very strongly those families and decide whether those families are actually capable of caring for those children and whether they have radicalized tendencies and if not put them up for adoption i want to talk about the mental state because of the state of the children situation so we go ahead gary go ahead. sorry neo. cons and said again their thought
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ignores the legal situation again which lloyd referred to referred to earlier on there are protections for children under domestic legislation for in arlon for example if a parent is deemed an unfit parent the child is removed and placed into care so to say that you know we worry about you know what these parents will do if the child if the child is in a dominating environment the tribe will be removed from the. environment and placed into care. now i want to play you know the video you know if you can maybe offer something here yeah go ahead ok you've already said you go ahead first. thanks neil couple of things. you know and my five. indicated recently that the eight hundred fifty foreign fighter return east that they expected. could be could be handled with the resources that they had in the legal tools that they had and you see greater numbers in some other countries so i'm not really sure
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where. contin is getting her figures from but aside from that point. the say that iran is the u k. ok the difficulties that. she has raised are are not to be ignored i think they're important and that is that there is a real risk that children who have been heavily indoctrinated and have become inured to to violence and maybe have perpetrated some atrocities themselves have to be monitored and rehabilitated very carefully and it's not an easy task so i respect what very much what what she's raised there as a point and that points not so much to say well we just have to marginalize or ostracize or reject these people these are children after all but maybe follow the international standards and i will refer to the two thousand and seven paris principles. and guidelines which. say that the you know best interests
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of the child in these situations are to be promoted if there has to be a prosecution that it should be according to international human rights standards and juvenile justice standards so that loyal soldiers who wrote you wouldn't have to talk about monitoring the children are you talking about they should actually be under surveillance consider the risk in the same way that know that people who live near and watch lists might be. no and i'm glad you raised that because i didn't mean it in that sense i meant in terms of rehabilitation and social reintegration that you know i think the dutch national counter-terrorism security and counterterrorism directorate has come up with a good solution because they also you know here in the netherlands we also have returning fighters and. and some. children where one of the other parents has it has a dutch connection and the approach that the dutch are taking is to say that the
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focus very much has to be on a tailor made. rehabilitation which is multi-disciplinary as we've done very carefully they don't underestimate the challenges and my five has been the same they say the challenges are going to be great but the tools have to be multi-disciplinary and and there has to be a number of approaches that draw on best practices we have best practices from sierra leone a liberia dealing with the far in colombia horrible daughter and many other countries and so there's a body of practice out there uganda. there are child soldiers rolonda and i've seen you know i've been to many of these countries and i've seen child soldiers in the field in nigeria and you know you see somebody with a machine gun and you cannot you can you can be hard hearted and say well the person got a machine gun they're under eighteen they have to be you know they're doing
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something illegal have to be rejected that that is not a very. very humanitarian approach and it's ok shortsighted just want to bring johnny spark and i want to ask the question a lot of people watching this will be thinking which is that you know these things children have been influenced and extent now that they can't be saved and they all going to be a threat and they are going to be a danger and they will have an opportunity to interact vengeance is that not something wouldn't it be foolish to not consider that possibility. you know every time i take part in one of these discussions i'm up against the human rights industry they took in the human rights industry language. they don't want to talk about surveyed as why should we not be having these children on survey that they talk about best practices and your guest quotes many countries around the world where there's water on situations but they just talking why don't you actually explain to the people watching what you think your best practices all what results you've had and what you would actually do because we're not hearing not from the
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industry. well i can respond to that since it's a direct challenge and you know i think if i would challenge that challenge i respond to it by saying the you know the research is out there and you know i wouldn't say that that it's a guarantee and i wouldn't say that the you know logic too little surveys have to be done which shows really the the effect much more than you know we don't have the full information but we've seen i've been to uganda where people have been very integrated from lord's resistance army children who have been reintegrated back into society they were clearly victims you know i've been up to gulu and they make they are just in other places and they are just. you know they're not kept under surveillance they've been reintegrated and there's a community support so i think we have to have just you know you're something that is important and that is between well i've been there and seen the situation but i can tell you that there is
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a distinction to be made between iraqi and syrian isis children devices that are remaining in the theater. the iraqi authorities have had difficulties registering them and getting certificates because. you know isis is not recognized in the shouldn't be but that means the marriage certificates of parents are not valid. interrupting you the law goes we've got we've got about one minute left and i just want to get gary the final word given the chance to carry anything in particular you would want to say on the she now what kind of dangerous you know that you want to give these children every opportunity but you must have some concerns about the reintegration what are the dangers that you would look out for. dangerous in relation to children. it's a difficult question. you know you're going to have like you know lots of kids who have gone through a war torn situation already not necessarily the children of isis fighters sports
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they have gone through have watched their mother their father their brother sister be executed are you know the computation in front of them those children are horribly damaged. and need as much help as possible to talk about danger you know what dangers i mean people. challenge isn't. well the challenges can be addressed by by proper therapy you know by by the surrounding of you know a warm environment for a child it's incredibly important for a child to have support the most important thing for a child and i watched with all friends of mine who worked with those children in the particularly the refugee youth service in in the comp and how incredibly important just sitting down beside a child and letting the child talk and really you know allowing them to open up and deal with the issues that they've seen you know support for children is the only way forward or the way is what's the alternative that we put
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a tiger on their ankle that we criminalize these children that is not going to change anything it's going to make them worse it will it will make them turn towards watchful what will feed their anger which is violence ok let's go to. try to avoid that you know that anything here that convinces me. they are afraid we've run out of the time of going to leave the signal shortly so i just have to say many thanks to all of you for taking. it slow not to be scary daily consent independent member of the european parliament the un human rights so say thank you to all of you appreciate your time thanks neal thank you. i want you will continue to follow the fates of orphans found in iraq shelters and look for their families and just to remind you do you have a special mailbox for this contact is if you recognize any of the children seen in any of our special reports you can get in touch with the children at r t t v dot are you.
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it's. funny you know on the. on the water. total around us. not he did not know. oh you ought to go to the post pizza to move for you to.
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apply for many flips over the years so i know the game inside guides. football isn't only about what happens on the pitch put a funnel school it's about the passion from the fans it's the age of the super money just kill you narrowness and spending to twenty million one player. it's an experience like nothing else going to be true so i want to share what i think of what i know about the beautiful game played great so one more chance with. the piece it's minute. the u.s. president says that he refuses to certify the iranian nuclear deal donald trump
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made that announcement while expanding his is a new strategy on iran his decision comes despite the global nuclear watchdog as well as u.s. and european officials all saying that tehran has been keeping its side of the bargain based on the factual record i have put forward i am announcing today that we cannot and will not make this certification we will not continue down a path whose predictable conclusion is more violence more terror and the very real threat of iran's nuclear break joining us from washington d.c. our correspondents a miracle and samir a rex tillerson told us just hours ago that wasn't going to happen but it was what else was said. well president trump has just approved this new strategy on iran and he said this was the culmination of nine months of deliberation it began
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with the usual anti iran sentiment referring to it as a rogue regime saying it's the lead sponsor of terror but he is decertifying the deal leaving it which will leave it entirely up to congress he is also imposing sanctions against the islamic revolutionary guard corps corps. and he's also advocating for sanctions that target. ballistic missile programs which are only capable of carrying conventional weapons and not nuclear weapons he did say that iran violated the spirit of the deal and called our our expectations which essentially means that iran has not violated the deal as secretary of state rex tillerson said earlier today but he also ended by threatening complete term a nation of the deal and total withdrawal. and. threatened
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terminations of a deal and its withdraw all but he also said that it would only happen if congress and his allies weren't complying with it but you know what we will have more on this subject. you. ok thanks samir khan a correspondent there and of course as i understand congress is still got to. approve all of this otherwise it will be a moot point so will keep all of you with up to date now the deal itself was originally how much doubt by the united states russia france the u.k. china germany and obviously iran back in two thousand and fifteen it all followed nine years of talks and a decade long standoff which many people viewed at the time as being one of the world's most pressing crises the international nuclear watchdog has been monitoring iran's compliance with the deal since that tehran is and has been keeping its side
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of the bargain and what is that bargain well it includes shipping enriched uranium to russia mothballing thousands of centrifuges and removing the core from a reactor at a key nuclear facility earlier some u.s. officials also backed the view that it rounded actually being good to its word while the european colleagues think that trump simply wrong on the issue. isn't technical compliance of the agreement there is no in material breach of the agreement there i do believe the agreement to be there is to lead the development of a nuclear capability but. the signals we're getting from the united states are that the president will explain to the senate that in his view the nuclear agreement with iran is not being fulfilled this is contrary to the view of the you member states they were involved in the green of you also contribute sorrow and we certainly do not want the nuclear agreement to be damaged look at us as you do i would like to defend the nuclear agreement with iran renouncing it would be a great era we have an interest and the responsibility
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a duty to preserve the nuclear deal with. labor trying to take so that now terms reasons for pushing for the deal to be broken. so donald trump's got a problem with what's known as iran's nuclear deal ok his not a fan of iran in the first place he's confident it's still a nest for terrorists but is that a good enough reason to basically throw the compromise agreement that required so much diplomatic effort to the floor i mean when it comes to sticking to the deal terms the world agrees to iran is behaving so why the assumption the deals in jeopardy because of washington the house foreign affairs committee chairman explains the tehran regime clearly sees itself as a movement one that uses ideology and violence to destabilize its neighbors to threaten others just for the record that was an
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american official talking about someone else promoting ideology and views using violence in other countries to get what they want isn't that a us thing like the golden rule of their foreign policy that we've seen in action so many times we have to stand united with our allies for peace by acting now we are opposing our values protecting our interests and advancing the cause of peace this nation. and war and cold war has never permitted the brutal and lawless to set history's course. now as before we will secure our nation protect our freedom and help others to find freedom of their own. my fellow americans for nearly seven decades the united states has been the anchor of global security the burdens of leadership are often heavy but the world's a better place because we have been.

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