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tv   Cross Talk  RT  December 13, 2017 10:30am-10:59am EST

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i think it's important for the competition the russia go a long way maybe even a semifinals we hope that it will be a very positive toward it i'm sure it will be we are very positive experience not think that goes a long way off it's a sporting event such as a world cup or limping going gives the country the opportunity to really show itself in its best to the world and are very much hope and i believe that russia will do that here twenty eight is going to be a good year for sport here that's the way the news is looking for now this hour on kevin owen at moscow h.q. saying listen say thanks for watching and a reminder of programs continue right after this break.
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hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle trust in the mainstream media is an all time low but no one should be surprised in the media has itself to blame for this sad state of affairs is a self-inflicted wound and actually a conscious business model the media no longer has an interest in reporting news media today propagates ideology. crosstalk in the state of the media i'm joined by my guest eric alterman in new york he is a sunni distinguished professor of english and journalism at brooklyn college as well as the liberal media columnist for the nation also in new york we have lionel he is a legal analyst and a news decoder at lionel media dot com and implements we cross to patrick and he is a journalist writer and founder of the news website twenty first century wired dot
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com all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it let me go to lionel first in new york i'm not going to list all of the mistakes the mainstream media has made over the last few months because that would take up the entire program and then some suffice to say lionel i think it's quite evident that the new york times the washington post c.n.n. m.s.m. the m s n b c and other news organizations they're making mistakes because they have a blind hatred for donald trump their blind hatred is throwing journalistic practices and principles out the window and this is damaging the information sphere in the united states and i would say the political process as well go ahead lionel. i would venture to say is an admixture of trump derangement syndrome in full bloom it's negligence it's malfeasance and it also is amazing isn't it amazing in shocking perhaps that none of these mistakes ever in your are to the benefit of
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trump or anybody else or they never deal with hillary clinton or those of the so-called left and progressive left or whatever it's always a unit directional mistake there is never and by the by the biggest problem right now that is facing this country is not this this this this problem in this proliferation i should say of sexual dalliances it's the fact that today's mainstream media today's ted baxter sockpuppet echo chamber rants and ossified media is dead it's through isn't the death throes and the faces an existential threat that's their problem and you'd think they'd be shaping up as sort of you then don't really know or negligent that eric let me go to you that's a very good point to mention i mean they should be they should get their act together but you know we had we still don't know why three different outlets confirm the same. bogus russia story last week they just had a retraction or an update but they don't and they didn't explain to the public how
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they came to that disastrous conclusion across the board i mean no wonder people don't trust the media anymore they're not transparent go ahead eric. i find everything i've heard said on this program so far to be ridiculous. i think the mainstream media or first of all the word media is a plural noun so to talk about the media you have to make distinctions between which media you're discussing. i think the media you mean which is c.n.n. new york times washington post and cetera i think they're an impossible position because they are faced with a president who lies on average six times a day that's a statistic compiled by the washington post he probably lies much more than that but those are the lies they've caught using a very narrow definition of a lie so the mainstream media doesn't act the mainstream media doesn't lie is that what you're saying first of all we're talking. well i'm pretty capable of saying exactly what i want you not to put words in my mouth but i'm trying to understand
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your words thoughts owns lies fox news fox news lies but no the mainstream media by and large certainly the new york times washington post and other reputable outlets never lie on purpose they make with stakes but it's very hard to cover a president who is purposely undermining american democracy who again lies on average six times a day and doesn't care that it's called lying let me ask you a question just take one for instance donald trump repeatedly tweeted that barack obama wiretapped him on purpose now the justice department found that that was not true as well but they're saying how there seems to be overwhelming evidence that he was a less than he was i don't sort of a i'm not i'm not around then i don't know there's no i wouldn't i don't know i know i said before the but i'm sort of that thought and i don't want to have any filibustering it's one voice i believe in freedom not feel about and i want to hear that freedom of speech from patrick inclement go ahead patrick react to what you've
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heard so far of. first of all i'm going to disagree with what eric said about defining the terms i'm going to say media as a singular entity because when it comes to all things russian grammatical things and trying to media do it well it might be grammatically correct but it does represent the reality of the situation which is that media is completely together in lockstep reading off the same hymn sheet on all things russian and if you want to talk about the mainstream media this these are all fake news stories from mainstream media this is just my file for the washington post the new york times c.n.n. granted cnn's house for this but this is perhaps my favorite pokey man go was hijacked by vladimir putin to mislead americans this is a c.n.n. exclusive this is just one example of many and to say that the the. what you're doing eric is is creating a false equivalency trying to compare donald trump's twitter tirades to the fourth
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what's supposed to be the fourth estate who has a collective budget operating budget of over ten million ten billion sorry billion dollars in the united states all of these mainstream media outlets basically putting out fake news the c.n.n. wiki leaks story is quite interesting because the same so-called sources were used apparently by c.b.s. news as well as c.n.n. and others and you read the e-mail and you can see the date it was september fourteenth so i had the question is you know were these did these sources actually read the so-called evidence or should it have been done in braille or or the c.n.n. so journalists so-called journalists are they illiterate how does this type of mistake come to come to be and how is it repeated and passed on to other laundered laundered through c.n.n. and then on can be said b.s. i don't know let me or anything and then uses twitter i don't like to put fake news out and then retracts it let me go to line here i mean it's that ok the story that
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was just mentioned by patrick there i mean it's a they want to believe in what they say this is they see this and they they jump on board is it laziness or is it you know what level of intentionality because it i said there's so many of them i mean patrick has held up a whole stack of the i mean it seems endless i could can't imagine this would have happened during the obama administration go ahead lionel well. well at first had to start off with the idea as evidence exhibit a by well after all you have the most lying president so therefore anything that happens is somehow waiting cancelled by the fact that well there's a liar let's take this week now you know how is a c.n.n. story about downtime given a wiki leaks memo or e-mail and all it did was a reading a day correctly so it's all in the file which is reading the data. really and not say oh for fourteen it's all a was it was
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a transposition of numbers that's all it was now you tell me how donald trumps mendacity and thank you for clarifying that medium is a singular noun not a plural but tell me how to their employer we now know the same name down city you get a wrong guilty to two to wax veritas could you explain to me how that has anything to do with c.n.n. or somebody else to say you know what we made a mistake that's all it is. eric you want to reply not go ahead sure first of all i'm not here to defend c.n.n. i think c.n.n. is pretty crappy and they did make a mistake and they did admit it. so journalists make mistakes old time it's a very imperfect. practice that's why it's called the first draft of history the press is there to make room said that what you what you were doing what you were doing what you were doing is actually trying to create a false equivalence between the deliberate lies of the trump administration and its
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supporters and the mistakes that are part of being a part of a journalist i'm not saying don't make mistakes i'm not saying this will not think you know united submitted some still not there had been every specious premise has done all pro it's not where it has gone from i'm not done i'm not that i thought of confident when as donald trump admitted that horrible kodama was born in the united states. no waiting ok let's talk about something out which i had happen this is very good ultimate good thing i'll share on talk about what we're talking about now bring something else up fantastic look i want to give you an example just in i was attacking your absolutely baseless claim you said the problem is forget the fact that this is fake media we have the most lying the most mendacious president there is that's what you said i was addressing that so what do you do when you're losing the argument let's bring up the birth or think let's change the subject but i don't know with whom you did a lot of bases listen to
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a logical not what i said what i said is work what i said is listen fucking what i said you're misrepresenting what i said why you're misrepresenting what i think what i said is i don't think it difficult. go ahead eric go ahead go ahead what i said i did not change the subject what i said is the media are not up to the job of covering a president who lies on average six times a day and doesn't hear that he's caught lying will just lie and i mean god life very difficult to do because you can't fact check every single thing so they're going to make mistakes there's going to be more mistakes they're going to be serious mistakes i mean go to penalty court it seems to me this really low standards of journalism that's what's this drawing democracy and the faith in the system that the journalism has to take responsibility for what they do forty seconds patrick before we go to the break go ahead newsflash eric and everybody politicians lie barack obama i'm going to close gitmo was through the president and
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i could get on and on and on on those lies so politicians i was elected that was. the law let me finish let me finish sir let me finish sir ok you can expect to make excuses for what you call the fourth estate and sort of so ok for them to what you call make mistakes they're fabricating news stories they're fabricating sources they are literally making up news and putting it. on the cycle there is no evidence of russian collusion eighteen months later there is nothing fake news for eighteen straight months on all the major networks and newspapers that is the fake news crisis it is not the right gentlemen i'm going to chant to hear what you got it was short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the state of the media stay with r.t. .
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everybody i'm stephen ball. hollywood guy suspect every proud american first of all i'm just george bush and honored to do so this is my buddy max famous financial guru just a little bit different i'm not. going to. go with those up with all the drama happening in our country i'm shooting the brood have some fun every day americans. and hopefully start to bridge the gap this is the great american to. make its manufacture consent to public wealth. when the ruling classes protect themselves. with the famous go
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around listen to the one percent. you know middle of the room sick. welcome to cross like we're all things considered i'm peter bell to remind you we're discussing the state of the media. ok let me go back to eric in new york and i think you would least concede that the liberal mainstream media has it out for trump and i think that's why they're making all of these mistakes because they have a certain goal and anything that they can get their hands on or even make up they're going to employ because they think they're morally correct they think they're doing the right thing i actually believe that they think that they're doing
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the right thing but what i do what bothers me is what we said in this program is it damages the profession of journalism in the process and the trust people have in the media go ahead eric well first of all i concede nothing you just said. to go back to the previous point i happen to have written my doctoral dissertation at stanford university on presidential lying on the history of presidents like i published a book called when presidents lie and i'm writing a second book on presidential line right now for basic books. not all presidents and almost no one ever told a lie may i finish or it may i finish may i finish. obama well do you and your new like. eric keep going eric keep going. well the example you brought up sir it's not a lie obama said he would close gitmo he tried to close gitmo and congress would let him that's not a law without a willing that's a failed policy we're still waiting you know in years later finished math. you're
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waiting for obama because i want to know when it's going to close president hillary clinton. benefit and. may i finish you have to answer the to answer the moderators question. the little quote unquote liberal media are not liberal the mainstream media is in the business of making money that's why during the campaign donald trump was given billions of dollars in free media with his speeches being carried live his phone calls being carried live where he lied consistently lied about virtually everything he said as again he has told according to the washington post count has been eric's error and i think her around this right is a program is about letting me finish well because you're going into the weeds again this program is about professional we journalists lives we don't need to hear the crickets on these other topics ok i mean birth literacy and you know all of this is not on top of what it's about to get at the presidential isn't of journalism and they are breaking their bond with the public the polls show it ok let me go to
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lionel last year c.b.s. news said the president said trump is good for c.b.s. for exactly the same reasons that eric mentioned here it's not about getting the story right it's about the kind of propaganda that you want to propagate and make money off of it that is a disgrace to journalism you should stop calling it journalism then leinil go ahead this is going to be one of the greatest interviews discussions ever because this fella doesn't exactly i beg to differ what everybody hates he is the personification of that which we hate prevarication and not admitting which is true and obvious to anybody the issue that peter asked was what do you do about not fake news not bias because we can argue bias all day long but what about when they just get it wrong. then they just get about that's the
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framework mr p.h.d. that's the framework so what this fella does is sort of answering that because he can't answer it he's smart enough to realize i have no answer let me throw in something about trump being a liar and that is the reason why the mainstream liberal media is dying for me to last throes everybody knows it and you sure are exhibit a and i present to the jury that is the world see this is what it's about can't even answer the question all you had to do was just concede that the jew the duty of journalism is just to get it right what did it killed your fella to say that but you can't do it because you know we i don't know i don't know i guess i mean there's some kind of a and man american that had one hundred cleaning let me go to patrick here but patrick one of the things that gets going i don't want to do you like to deal with
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facts here but unlike the liberal media that makes make things up i mean you know it was seventeen intelligence agencies. it's a fact that the the d.n.c. was hard but the f.b.i. never looked at the servers the d.n.c. didn't allow that what i'm getting at is that you keep hearing on c.n.n. and this n.b.c. eccentrics cetera they keep repeating the same unsubstantiated claims as if it is. a law of gravity and you never hear anybody pushing back there this group think this is exactly what it is it's group think and it's turned into a cult with the real it's a religious cult now they have and anyone that violates it is considered a heretic go ahead patrick like us i suppose you know for us i will agree with eric that it's not a liberal media exclusively per se that happens to be a kind of a liberal hysterical insurgency right now in the mainstream media but c.n.n. will read straight off of pentagon. things or state department briefings and the
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new york times will do the same straight off the party line on certain issues so they really are there to protect the establishment whether that's a liberal or a conservative establishment or military industrial complex establishment you just have to have this hysteria going on the problem with all journalistic standards have been thrown out the window in the last eighteen months because when it comes to anything russia or trump but especially russia this is much bigger than trumped by the way this is as a geo political scope to it it's tell don't show so the accusations get old out but they don't actually have any evidence can out can someone find me one piece of evidence that russia hacked the us elections or even hacked the d.n.c. or colluded or meddled or anything nothing the facebook bought story that everybody ran with from the washington post new york times that was if you really drill down on that story that was a case of the obama administration colluding with a silicon valley company facebook senator warner from virginia did multiple trips
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over there to tried to extract some story about russian bots finally facebook capitulated and gave him a narrative about all these russian bots purchasing facebook ads it's a laugh and that dominated the united states mainstream all the networks news cycles for i don't know how long weeks ok that is a fake story that is a fabricated narrative it's designed for a specific political purpose the problem with political journalists and biased partisan journalists and eric i think you unfortunately do fall in to that category is that you're good for the party but you're not really not good for america because you're just you're picking one side and you're letting the people who are singing you're singing your song off the hook every single time that is the problem ok let me go to eric and you know we had david from from the atlantic the same man that brought us. the w m d's in iraq. coined the phrase axis of evil
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ok and he in the takeover was on c.n.n. and he said about this story that the networks got wrong on this email leaks to. the trump campaign he said mistakes are precisely the reason that people should trust the media. ok try to swallow that it's the process of bringing truth to light i mean this is got to be the most orwellian thing i think i've ever heard in media ok because we're wrong people should trust us what the hell was he talking about. well you know here is david frum's representative but i imagine that you're probably taking that out of context and ugly no not at all and if i took it exactly from this i wrote it out and i said it say that ok i'll just dismiss it may i say oh you're out of contact don't get it ok really no yeah probably it but may i address to c.n.n. which i'm not here to defend i think they do a crappy job but c.n.n.
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apologized for its mistake when he didn't explain killers you words why you know he did that and it's doing why did not explain my point no transparency they demanded from everybody else has a demand it from donald trump but they give their viewers no transparency after with been doing for eighteen months ok never any kind of you to defend see i'm not i'm not here i'm not asking you to me their lawyer i don't care what they do i do i hear what this whole deal i've gone through and we have a really awesome bill in front you have a degree in it right of journalism i think you know what we what kind of responsibilities go along with the profession go ahead jump in go ahead i don't have a degree in journalism you know that's another mistake it would have been better and i want to apologize that i had i apologize ok i made a mistake of saying see journal a real journalist get a real journalist do it ok i don't have to carry water for c.n.n.
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or any but i made one here go ahead lionel. bad peter bad you got to feed constantly like that citizen in civilian journalists an alternative very easily said ok let's make a concession look at problems no no even then we don't give an inch the same thing with russia even though right now we've been talking about this story and not one person in any medium or the media actively has ever been able to say here is the best evidence of any kind of collusion or change of the photo whatever even though that's never been done they go miss a beat and they don't give in and you just keep forward that's the problem and when in doubt when your back is against the wall when you have absolutely nothing ok you know let me jump in here let me let me give let me give allow during the last two are and let me give patrick the last word i think one of the interesting things in this information war that's going on is that how the the mainstream media allows itself to be played by trump every single day he's calling the shots they loathe
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him but he's actually determining the news cycle and they cannot except that ok and i think that's one thing that they need to get their head around go ahead last few seconds patrick go ahead sure whether it's the fake dossier put out by buzz feed and echoed by c.n.n. and all these other sort of fake stories about trump and donald trump has a right to go to twitter at that point defend himself and i would to anyone else would probably do the same if they're in his position whether he's a pathological liar and ok i'm putting on that or i'm not i'm very spirited discussion gentlemen but we've run out of time many thanks to my guests in new york and in plymouth and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. you next time and remember crosstalk rules.
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like when you all know it's coming to inspect our property if somebody would invent told me that i'm going to spend my life to plant committees are a little disturbed person with salt it was clearly seen. every night all we were attacked by the arabs all we will attacking them and we will extremely shocked and saying but that's not possible oh me doesn't do such scenes and then the soldiers and myself from the work all sleeping with the result of the house without the prison or with our good god with over they are only. really much second class citizens in the on call. it was like and i think in my head that there is no way to be able to live together
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without tearing down the street how was. joined me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guess a little world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. it is one of the basic instruments to drive an economy but it can also lead to tragedy i did it i took a line the whole gist i can be got and that that the debt steichen big and it was spiraling out. many lives have been broken by excessive debt the banks got you into trouble and all the big bankers can't be. there with. the banks but i just didn't think of the ordinary men who. lost money so as a back under don't buy credits as people see no future bad face for how you know
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this is all too international and breaking news this hour to tell you about the organization for islamic cooperation is calling on the world to recognize east jerusalem as the capital of the occupied state of palestine adding that the us should withdraw from the peace process now all together it will tell you all about that. coming up to this amnesty international says the e.u. countries but much of the blame for the pool treatment in june by migrants in libya . we believe they know we completed the system of abuse and torture all the refugees and my friend said bianca and then another development on the cars to tell you about the u.s. is set for u. turn on north korea as america's top diplomat said washington that was ready to enter talks with going on without any preconditions crucially.

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