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tv   Cross Talk  RT  December 25, 2017 3:30pm-4:01pm EST

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that would take up the entire program and then some suffice to say lionel i think it's quite evident that the new york times the washington post c n n m s m b m s n b c and other news organizations they're making mistakes because they have a blind hatred for donald trump their blind hatred is throwing journalistic practices and principles out the window and this is damaging the information sphere in the united states and i would say the political process as well go ahead lionel i would venture to say is an admixture of trump derangement syndrome in full bloom it's negligence it's malfeasance and it also is that amazing isn't it amazing in shocking perhaps that none of these mistakes every new word to the benefit of trump or anybody else or they never deal with that would be glidden or those of the so-called left and progressive left or whatever it's always a unit directional mistake there is never and by the by the biggest problem right now that is facing this country is not this this this this problem geisha in this
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proliferation i should say of sexual dalliances it's the fact that today's mainstream media today's ted baxter sockpuppet echo chamber rants that ossified media is dead it's through isn't it death throes and the face is an existential threat that's their problem and you'd think they'd be shaping up as you know you can then don't really know or negligent that eric let me go to you that's a very good point to mention i mean they should be they should get their act together but you know we had we still don't know why three different outlets confirm the same. bogus russia story last week they just had a retraction or an update but they don't know they didn't explain to the public how they came to that disastrous conclusion across the board i mean no wonder people don't trust the media anymore they're not transparent go ahead eric. i find everything i've heard said on this program so far to be ridiculous i think the
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mainstream media or first of all the word media is a plural noun so to talk about the media you have to make distinctions between which media you're discussing. i think the media you mean which is c.n.n. the new york times washington post and cetera i think they're an impossible position because they are faced with a president who lies on average six times a day that's a statistic compiled by the washington post he probably lies much more than that but those are the lies i've caught using a very narrow definition of a lie so the mainstream media doesn't act the mainstream media doesn't lie is that what you're saying first of all we're talking. well i'm pretty capable of saying exactly what i want you not to put words in my mouth but i'm trying to understand your words thoughts owns lies fox news fox news lies but no the mainstream media by and large certainly the new york times washington post and other reputable outlets never lie on purpose they make with stakes but it's very hard to cover
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a president who is purposely undermining american democracy who again lies on average six times a day and doesn't care that it's called lying let me ask you a question just take one for instance donald trump repeatedly tweeted that barack obama wiretapped him on purpose now the justice department found that that was not true as well but they're saying as there seems to be overwhelming evidence that he was less than he was i don't sort of a i'm not i'm not around then i don't know there's no i wouldn't i know i know i said before the but i'm sort of that thought i don't want to have any filibustering it's one because i believe in freedom i'm not evil about fred i want to hear that freedom of speech from patrick inclement go ahead patrick react to what you've heard so far. first of all i'm going to disagree with what eric said about defining the terms i'm going to say media as a singular entity because when it comes to all things rush and grammatical things and trying to media do it well it might be grammatically correct but it does
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represent the reality of the situation which is that media is completely together in lockstep reading off the same hymn sheet on all things russian and if you want to talk about the mainstream media this these are all fake news stories for mainstream media this is just my file for the washington post the new york times c.n.n. granted cnn's house for this but this is perhaps my favorite pokey man go was hijacked by vladimir putin to mislead americans this is a c.n.n. exclusive this is just one example of many and to say that the the. what you're doing eric is is creating a false equivalency trying to compare donald trump's twitter tirades to the fourth what's supposed to be the fourth estate who has a collective budget operating budget of over ten million ten billion sorry billion dollars in the united states all of these mainstream media outlets basically
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putting out fake news the c.n.n. wiki leaks story is quite interesting because the same so-called sources were used apparently by c.b.s. news as well as c.n.n. and others and you read the e-mail and you can see the date it was september fourteenth so i had the question is you know were these did these sources actually read the so-called evidence or should it have been done in braille or or the c.n.n. so journalists so-called journalists are they illiterate how does this type of mistake come to come to be and how is it repeated and passed on to other laundered laundered through c.n.n. and then on him he said b.s. i don't let me or anything and then uses twitter i don't like to put fake news out and then retracts it let me go to line here i mean it's that ok the story that was just mentioned by patrick there i mean it's a they want to believe in what they say this is they see this in the they jump on board is it laziness or is it you know what level of intentionality because it i
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said there's so many of them i mean patrick has held up a whole stack of the i mean it seems endless i could can't imagine this would have happened during the obama administration go ahead lionel well. well at first had to start off with the idea as evidence exhibit a by well after all you have the most lining president so therefore anything that happens is somehow waiting cancelled by the fact that well trump is a liar let's take this week now you know how is a c.n.n. story about donald trump and a wiki leaks memo or an e-mail and all it did was a reading a day correctly so it's all in the fall which is reading the date correctly and not say oh for a fourteen it's all a was it was a transposition of numbers that's all it was now you tell me how donald trump's mendacity. and thank you for clarifying that medium is a singular noun not a plural but tell me how to their employer only now you know the thing name down
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city you get a little bit of a two to two whacks veracious you explain to me how that has anything to do with c.n.n. or somebody else to say you know what we made a mistake that's all it is. eric you want to reply not go ahead sure first of all i'm not here to defend c.n.n. i think c.n.n. is pretty crappy and they did make a mistake and they didn't make it. so journalists make mistakes all the time it's a very imperfect. practice that's why it's called the first draft of history the press is there to make room said that what you what you were doing what you were doing what you were doing is actually trying to create a false equivalence between the deliberate lies of the trump administration and its supporters and the mistakes that are part of being a part of a journalist i'm not saying don't make mistakes i'm not saying this will not think you know united smits i'm still not there had been very specious premise has donald pro is not what has gone from i'm not done i'm not not that confident when has
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donald trump admitted that or kodama was born in the united states. no waiting ok let's talk about something out which i like that happen this is very good ultimate good thing i'll share on talk about what we're talking about now bring something else up fantastic look i want to give you an example i was attacking your absolutely baseless claim you said the problem is forget the fact that this is fake media we have the most lying the most mendacious president there is that's what you said i was addressing that so what do you do when you're losing the argument let's bring up the birth or think let's change the subject but i don't know with whom you did a lot of bases listen to a little not what i said what i said is work what i said is listen fucking what i said you're misrepresenting what i said why you're misrepresenting what i said what i said is i don't think they're difficult. speak go ahead eric go ahead go ahead
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let what i said i did not change the subject what i said is the media are not up to the job of covering a president who lies on average six times a day and doesn't hear that he's caught lying will just lie every time he's caught lying so they're not that's very difficult to do because you can't fact check every single sentence the president says so they're going to make mistakes there's going to be more mistakes they're going to be serious mistakes that does not take away from the fact that this president is what i was saying earlier morning our democracy and our media and our media are going to hold a lot of holding that stands between it will let you know they're going to clearly go to paris it seems to me this really low standards of journalism that's what's this drawing democracy and the faith in the system that the journalism has to take responsibility for what they do forty seconds patrick before we go to the break go ahead newsflash eric and everybody politicians lie barack obama i'm going to close gitmo was through the president and i could get on and on and on on those lies so
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politicians i was elected can you tell me let me finish let me finish sir let me finish sir. ok you can expect to make excuses for what you call the fourth estate and sort it's ok for them to what you call make mistakes they're fabricating news stories they're fabricating sources they're literally making up news and putting it out on the cycle there is no evidence of russian collusion eighteen months later there's nothing fake news for eighteen straight months on all the major networks and newspapers that is the fake news crisis it is not done right gentlemen i'm going to johnny here when you go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the state of the media stay with our team.
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in two thousand and sixteen the panama papers show the world with a tax haven the secrets to trilling and united states dollars passed through most. in the amount of time that we in the panama papers exposure that's what it shows a lot of money it really is. journalism it's an act of journalism looking at things that people want to keep secret and i'm asking why would they want to keep these things secret. millions of fonseka don't commence where examine. all the people we basically have tried to get an advantage out of this sort of. newspaper. and probably other politician which. other politicians the media would point to find targets such as the kings of morocco in saudi arabia the
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president of argentina several prime ministers. russian president vladimir putin of course. oh my god i've had so i have sued so many newspapers for defamation some things don't just happen by chance it was very striking there were no one americans and girls especially but a lot of people from the brics countries specially brazil russia and china their special project reveals what was missed in the media coverage. the panama chronicles. played for many clubs over the years so i know the game inside guides. football isn't only about what happens on the pitch for the final school it's about the passion from the fans it's the age of the super money kill the narrowness and spending through to the
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twenty million and one player. it's an experience like nothing else on here because i want to share what i think what i know about the beautiful game migrates a woman chance for. the thinks it's minute. welcome to cross like we're all things considered i'm peter bell to remind you we're discussing the state of the media. ok let me go back to eric in new york and i think you would least concede that the liberal mainstream media has it out for trump and i think that's why they're making all of these mistakes because they have a certain goal and anything that they going can get their hands on or even make up they're going to employ because they think they're morally correct they think
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they're doing the right thing i actually believe that they think that they're doing the right thing but what i do what bothers me is what we said in this program is it damages the profession of journalism in the process and the trust people have in the media go ahead eric well first of all i concede nothing you just said. to go back to the previous point i happen to have written my doctoral dissertation at stanford university on presidential lying on the history of presidents like i published a book called when presidents lie and i'm writing a second book on presidential lying right now for basic books. not all presidents. and long list no one ever told a lie may i finish or a day i finish may i finish. obama well do you and your new like. eric keep going eric keep going. well the example you brought up sir it's not a lie obama said he would close gitmo he tried to close gitmo and congress would let him that's not a law without a willing that's
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a failed policy we're still waiting you know and years later finish math. you're waiting for obama because i want to know when it's going to close president hillary clinton. benefited from mad finish you have to answer the to answer the moderators question. the little quote unquote liberal media are not liberal the mainstream media is in the business of making money that's why during the campaign donald trump was given billions of dollars in free media with his speeches being carried live his phone calls been carried live where he lied consistently lied about virtually everything he said as again he has told according to the washington post count has been eric's error and then it is her and this writing program is about not letting me finish well because you're going into the weeds again this program is about professional we journalists lives we don't need to hear the crickets on these other topics ok i mean birth literacy and you know all of this is not on the top of what it's about to get at the presidential is on of journalism and they are
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breaking their bond with the public the polls show it ok let me go to lionel last year c.b.s. news said the president said trump is good for c.b.s. for exactly the same reasons that eric mentioned here it's not about getting the story right it's about the kind of propaganda that you want to propagate and make money off of it that is a disgrace to journalism you should stop calling it journalism then leinil go ahead this is going to be one of the greatest interviews discussions ever because this fella does exactly i beg to differ what everybody hates he is the personification of that which we hate prevarication and not admitting which is true and obvious to anybody the issue that peter asked was what do you do about not fake news not bias because we can argue bias all day long
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but what about when they just get it wrong. then they just get about that's the framework mr p.h.d. that's the framework so what this fella does is sort of answering that because he can't answer it he's smart enough to realize i have no answer let me throw in something about trump being a liar and that is the reason why the mainstream liberal media is dying from it to last for all those everybody knows it and you sure are exhibit a and i present to the jury that is the world see this is what it's about can't even answer the question all you had to do was just concede that the jew the duty of journalism is just to get it right what did it killed your fella to say that but you can't do it because you know we i don't know i don't know i guess i mean there's some kind of a and man america that had one hundred clean let me go to patrick here but patrick
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one of the things that gets going i don't know you like to deal with facts here but unlike the liberal media that makes make things up i mean you know it was seventeen intelligence agencies. it's a fact that the the d.n.c. was hard but the f.b.i. never looked at the servers the d.n.c. didn't allow that what i'm getting at is that you keep hearing on c.n.n. and this n.b.c. eccentrics cetera they keep repeating the same unsubstantiated claims as if it is. a law of gravity and you never hear anybody pushing back there this group think this is exactly what it is it's group think and it's turned into a cult with the real it's a religious cult now they have and anyone that violates it is considered a heretic go ahead patrick like us i suppose you know for us i will agree with erick that it's not a liberal media exclusively per se that happens to be a kind of a liberal hysterical insurgency right now in the mainstream media but c.n.n.
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will read straight off of pentagon briefing. for state department briefings and the new york times will do the same straight off the party line on certain issues so they really are there to protect the establishment whether that's a liberal or a conservative establishment or military industrial complex establishment you just have to have this hysteria going on the problem with all journalistic standards have been thrown out the window in the last eighteen months because when it comes to anything russia or trump but especially russia this is much bigger than trump by the way this is as a geo political scope to it it's tell don't show so the accusations get rolled out but they don't actually have any evidence can out can someone find me one piece of evidence that russia hacked the us elections or even hacked the d.n.c. or colluded or meddled or anything nothing the facebook bought story that everybody ran with from the washington post new york times that was if you really drill down on that story that was a case of the obama administration colluding with
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a silicon valley company facebook senator warner from virginia did multiple trips over there to tried to extract some story about russian bots finally facebook capitulated and gave him a narrative about all these russian bots purchasing facebook ads it's a laugh and that dominated the united states mainstream all the networks news cycles for i don't know how long weeks ok that is a fake story that is a fabricated narrative it's designed for a specific political purpose the problem with political journalists and biased partisan journalists and eric i think you unfortunately do fall in to that category is that you're good for the party but you're not really not good for america because you're just you're picking one side and you're letting the people who are singing you're singing your song off the hook every single time that is the problem ok let me go to eric and you know we had david from from the atlantic the same man
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that brought us. the w m d's in iraq. coined the phrase axis is evil ok and he in the takeover was on c.n.n. and he said about this story that the networks got wrong on this email leaks to. the trump campaign he said mistakes are precisely the reason that people should trust the media. ok try to swallow that it's the process of bringing truth to light i mean this is got to be the most orwellian thing i think i've ever heard in media ok because we're wrong people should trust us what the hell was he talking about. well you know here is david frum's representative but i imagine that you're probably taking that out of context and dully no not at all and if i took it exactly from this i wrote it out and i said it say that ok i'll just dismiss it may i say i got out of contact don't get it ok really no yeah probably it but may i
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address that point c.n.n. which i'm not here to defend i think they do a crappy job but c.n.n. apologized for its mistake when he didn't explain killers you words why you know he died and it's doing why he did not explain my point no transparency they demanded from everybody else has a demand it from donald trump but they give their viewers no transparency after with been doing for eighteen months ok never any try and i'm not here to defend c i'm not i'm not here i'm not asking to be their lawyer i don't care what they do i do i hear what the hell do i get on really when we have a really awesome bill in front you have a degree in it right of journalism i think you know what we what kind of responsibilities go along with the profession now live go ahead jump in go ahead i don't have a degree in journalism you know that's another mistake it would have been better and i want to apologize that i had i apologize ok i made a mistake of saying see journal a real journalist get a real journalist to do it ok i don't have to carry water for c.n.n.
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or any but i made one here go ahead lionel. bad pitter bad bad that what could have been done was originally what this fella could have done this fella could have said look we live in a different world right now it's a twenty four seven machine is runaway train it's this monster it's you gotta feed constantly the days of cronkite the days of being able to sit around in your office in luxury until six o'clock and double and triple check that's a part of the problem maybe there's a zealousness maybe there's a part of bias he could have answered that that's that's a real problem because it's the immediacy it's the days of social media it's the fact that citizen civilian journalists and alternative media and foreign media are chomping at the bit are and chomping at the heels of these people i understand it now but that could have been done but instead and this is the ball and i hope peter that somehow everybody remembers us and just just takes takes this fella's comment
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and just says this is the problem it's always trump even when you could have very easily said ok look i make a concession look at problems or no no even then we don't give and change the same thing with russia even though right now we've been talking about this story and not one person in any medium or in the media actively has ever been able to say here is the best evidence of any kind of collusion or change of the photo whatever even though that's never been done i don't miss a beat and they don't give in and you just keep forward that's the problem and when in doubt when your back is against the wall when you have absolutely nothing ok you know let me jump in and let me let me give let me give allow during the last two on let me give patrick the last word i think one of the interesting things in this information war that's going on is that how the the mainstream media allows itself to be played by trump every single day he's calling the shots they loathe him but
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he's actually determining the new cycle and they cannot accept that and i think that's one. thing that they need to get their head around go ahead last few seconds patrick go ahead sure whether it's the fake dossier put out by buzz feed and echoed by c.n.n. and all these other sort of fake stories about trump and donald trump has a right to go to twitter at that point and defend himself and i would to anyone else would probably do the same if they're in his position whether he's a pathological liar and ok i'm patrick on that or on the i'm very spirited discussion gentlemen but we've run out of time many thanks to my guests a new york and in plymouth and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. you next time and remember crosstalk rules.
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is a civilization just a tiny bit more advanced than we are that they can already pick up jerry springer or any other sit coms interview shows the nightly news they see what we're doing to our planet you know it isn't really a very pretty picture and so in addition to sending this chaotic mass and is this we use to communicate with one another we want to send a clear signal to the extraterrestrial but there's also some rationality on. los angeles the city of luxury and fame but also an alarming number of people living in the streets. the simple fact in l.a. he's there's just not enough shelter even if people on the streets right now decided to come in there's nowhere to come in and it's been a struggle. and this man found his own response to the problem and constructed
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dozens of tiny homes for people in need of shelter. when you have nothing in order to go. you know having something like this may as well be a castle but do the authorities accept such solution tiny house on a c.v. parking space is not a solution perth to someone monitoring the site otherwise it will be a free for all there a better alternative to end the homelessness crisis. in two thousand and sixteen the panama paper has shown the world with a tax haven the secrets to trillion united states dollars passed through most. in the amount of time that we've been in panama papers exposure that's what it shows a lot of money it really is. journalism it's an act of journalism looking at things that people want to keep secret and asking why would they want to keep these things
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secret. millions of most fun psycho documents where examiners. the all the people which basically have tried to get an advantage out of this sort of newspaper. and probably other politicians of which were. other politicians the media were quick to find their targets such as the kings of morocco and saudi arabia the president of argentina several prime ministers. and russian president vladimir putin of course. like i've had so i have sued so many newspapers for defamation some things don't just happen by chance it was very striking there were no more americans and the list specially a lot of people from the brics countries specially brazil russia and china
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their special project reveals what was missed in the media coverage. of the. panama chronicles.
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liberation and loss we get unique access to report from inside mosul to see the truth scope of the bottle to recapture the iraqi city of cost thousands of lives and left the survivors in danger. isis me. this one says unexploded to the child who's walking around the family is that we. could kick it tried to play with it touch it and set it off these a little all over. also the solid deescalating the korea conflicts hopes for peace in syria but concerns over america's intentions the russian foreign minister talks exclusively doughty about the biggest global issues of the year. the seconds to disaster which try.


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