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tv   Worlds Apart  RT  December 30, 2017 10:30pm-11:01pm EST

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one of welcome to worlds apart that is the last thing one would want to talk about their new year's eve but in russia paradoxically it's also a source of hope and renewal palliative care barely existed in this country just two decades ago now provides one of the most inspiring examples of civil active is not only influencing governments but also becoming part of it how can that we people die change the way people believe well to discuss that and now would you invite me to defend their master had of mosco soundtrack for palliative care you do is great to talk to you thank you very much for your time thank you for your time now. about a decade ago i used to volunteer for a small school hospital you want to go to. your mother there are millions you cover and i know that at that time there wasn't wasn't even the notion of failure to carry in russian law i know it has changed is that but it's certainly not fully or properly legislated i wonder if when you look back at what has been done and what
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still needs to be done are you more inspired or depressed. i think both because when i look backwards i get inspired when i look forward to depressed because there's still a lot of things to be done we still have lots of difficulties with pain killing and we still don't have enough forms of golf and that would follow. the philosophy of police of kids who would mainly have injections and we've got to have pills we've got to have children we'll have to have sprays we don't have all that and. of course we could have bought it all abroad but policy. in drugs in russian federation doesn't let us do this and it's quite a long time till we have it all produced here in russia i think that the first in the noninvasive. painkilling drug for children from birth. i
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will only appear in russian federation in two thousand and twenty two we're used to a lot of pain for children. you mentioned the philosophy of the hospice moment and i think the slogan of the hospice moment here in russia if a person cannot be cured it doesn't mean that he or she cannot be held strikes at the very heart of just the distinction between medical and palliative care and i know that from personal experience that many ordinary people strongly in fact that emphasize about but i wonder if the death origins have internalized the do they treat pale aged care as something that they are obliged to provide like medical care for example or still as a charitable activity. you are right when you say that very little time ago some ten fifteen years ago we had just a few hospices in this huge country and obviously little they have around a hundred or so sharply and we had about an hour one hundred hospices but we also have a lead of care units everywhere and we have home care services quite
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a lot of them but a few years ago. this few activities a really only existed. due to enthusiasm of their we do it and they had very scarce financial support from the government and even fuel money from charity. it was over the after my mother's death my mother as you said she was a pious apostle who brought to police it came to this country in its. social circle souness actually brought it from the united kingdom after my mother's death she died seven years ago. were thor it is the government have stated politi of medical care in the federal law about. health. but unfortunately the understanding of elite if care the turned to medical care in this law very much differs from understanding of police of care in the world health
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organization in russia it only states that police have medical care aides to ease the suffering of the patient by means of pain killing or some medical inventions. therefore in our legislation point of care left all the aspects connected with spiritual health with social support really which is the sum of both your mother and yourself have tried to provide them the facility he has and that's what's been happening in the last years so i think in this country we should not so far look at police of care. sort of crossing out one of its aspects federal money or charity money hopefully we will never have to cross out charity of federal money but. i think one of the hugest achievements of
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charity you verify is that in the last eleven years and there a foundation has existed for eleven years now. is that this phrase the phrase that you mentioned if one cannot be cured it doesn't mean one cannot be helped it no longer causes any questions i very well remember the time when i would address journalists and to the channels ten eight seven years ago and would come to talk with journalists and they would say ok but please know what cancer no words such as hospice on no death on earth ok why what would you don't want me to talk about then as years passed by now. there's no questions about it any longer get can i pick up on that because in the one of your interviews you talked about normalizing or even humanizing death and from what i've known in other countries to the hospice moment has encountered so in the resistance because of all those professional and cultural
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taboos associated with open communication about death how big of an issue is that in russia i think it's a very big issue there should be death and topples and talking about death you cannot look at it. without your behind you have to take into consideration all the cultural layers and what is it specifically say about russia because it's not only about people are afraid to discuss death here but for example you know that in russian many forms of cancer are diagnosed extremely late for effective treatment partially because people are also afraid to recognize the symptoms the level of. credibility the level of. trust to medicine to social services to the government is very low it has always been very low in this country this is
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a paradox we all very like authoritative power we all very much love strong leaders but we let trust and when people let trust they do not turn for help in proper time they do it when it's too late and also when christians feel lost a fee suffering goes along with death and suffering. eases your sins before you die this is one of the hugest problems actually which we face when we talk about pain killing. but nevertheless going back to your question and to our children's i think that the mare fact that. politicians no longer turn a deaf ear to the problem. it's only this year that we can we started saying about hospices are about like hospices are about leading till the very end. and
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this is now welcomed because now people realize that without fully to care all life is much worse and if you have to fear something you have to fear death without hospice living food to the very add also means a bad. inning hope of curative treatment that's a very important distinction between medical care and palliative care and in russia we have this saying that hope is something that dies last and what are you actually saying is that sometimes you need to allow that hope to die before the prison you know care about and never hope always dies last but it all with matter is. what you hope for you can hope to be cured but usually i would patients i think ninety nine point nine percent they know it before doctors say they know it before their relatives feel it they have feeling of their own borders they understand what's happening and hope. shifts you know they hope so in the winter they
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hope to live to new year eve they hope to see maybe their own little children to become toddlers they may be hope to once again hug their wives they may be who to see doc a therapist again because we have docs coming here. saying i've chosen hopes no they're not simple pleasures they're the most important pleasures i always say to journalists or to sound doctors or nurses who come here for the first time in their lives and they have this question of what people think about before they die what they fear of what they talk about so you know they never talk about problems we talk about they talk about each other they talk about their families they talk to their children they like every single thing in life which we being healthy don't notice you mention the word family and you are also lost your mother to cancer and she's somebody who is i think remembered in this country
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for trying to institutionalize kindness and dignity in the country where let's admit it not many people are used to being treated with kindness and dignity especially by the state i think she definitely succeeded in creating that. caring atmosphere within one institution but you are now tasked with trying to spread that hind of attitude throughout the whole field the least in moscow what makes you believe if you can actually do that to her as. i see the result people are not used to being treated with dignity and kindness but once you start you feel the response so fast it's very inspiring you come to a medical organization to hospice which two months ago was closed rather resembled a prison than a hospice and you talk to nurses you and you tell them look we're going to have our
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twenty four seven we're going to have volunteers along with volunteers because people here actually are dying we have to admit this nothing can harm them any longer we will have cats and dogs coming we will have concerts here we will have alcohol and we will let them smoke and you suddenly see that nurses say really we can't do that we've always wanted but it's been prohibited you feel that there's such a demand for being a loved and also a demand to let people love we have. doctors here who never thought about it but wait if karen too tough a year ago and it was always my future that they would come see their patients actually die every day and they would leave and they're very bright very eager to be educated they want new knowledge and they want to to feel they want to feel
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necessary and some of them say we've never had in the medical sphere would where we would have so much gratitude so much response they thought their relatives would hate them and relatives loved them and it is so absolutely inspiring to hear something at telephone call or a person coming actually i just had a man in my room who set the same words he says my wife has just died thank you while this is absolutely impossible to believe until you come and work on this fear and. i'm pretty sure that you encounter that pretty much every every day of work i hope to be in with patients every day but unfortunately neither are unfortunately most of the days now are spent in different. in this ministry off this album all that stuff because we need to take a very short break now but it will discount that immediately after the break.
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i've played for many clubs over the years so i know the game inside out. the ball isn't only about what happens on the pitch pull the funnel school it's about the passion from the fans it's the age of the super manager killian erroneous and spending two hundred twenty million on one player. so it's an experience like nothing else i want to get close i want to share what i think what i know about the beautiful game played great so one more chance for. the base
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this minute. welcome back to worlds apart but new the fed master of moscow senator for palliative care knew that i know that you not only have been trying to change the culture but you've also been trying to change the legislation to policy and heard you say that every leader meant here it takes much more effort than it should why do you think it's growing so much difficult to move things around because the things that you related before the break very understandable so you know officials public officials are people too they have families they have older parents they have to grow more so they don't have what is called in russia blocked they have
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a possibility to pull the strings when they need something to help with their i mean i would be you know i don't think i always think that if something happens in their family they will go to the first boss the whole space settled by a million chicago and they will feel their relatives have dignity and painkilling actually for me today especially is this is a very painful question because i had an absolutely awful meeting yesterday which practically killed me. but then at the last the night is over and i'm back to work and i'm sure that. i'm sure that i very well know what i want for our patients and so laura light up making him a symbol everywhere perhaps third of the family the memory of the meeting yesterday because as you said in one of the interviews that the british colleague of yours once told you not to be afraid to dance with the devil and i know that the russian darkest is not as evil as the devil but sometimes others across as callous and
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indifferent how do you penetrate that callous as this same doctor who gave this advice couple of years ago he came here to lecture in front of pediatricians about using often for children in care and after one of the meetings he came up to me and said neuter you remember i told you this raised a lot when i said yes i use it i know i lived with it and he said well i've never thought that you've got so many devils around. but in fact you know when you actually penetrate you see that as they just extremely tired they have lots of tasks a lot of very honest very hard working people extremely exhausted because they actually work in the world of papers and. computer and that's it they don't have this fit back which we have when we go to the wards and talk to relatives of patients. why the. i actually what i fear is that one day might come when i will stop understanding that papers
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especially in this country mean march less than bureaucrats thinks they do all good things are usually done. during papers can i mention one good thing rich is actually a devastating story because on the one hand it's one of the success stories of public enjoys here in russia which involves the ever live billeted of opiate painkillers especially for cancer patients and i know that the process was extremely cumbersome and difficult until the suicide by one of russia's counter admirals the man by the name of an awesome guy who shot himself in the had because he couldn't bear the pain anymore i don't know that the death actually how countless others but i wonder why do you think that particular case was able to move that policy why the counter admiral and not let's say. a mother or
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a child well because this is what we already talked about this pulling the strings the blood out because actually come to admiral of that level is a person who can easily open the door and talk to the president of the country and if at this level the system proved to be absolutely impotent and he suffered from pain so he won't touch that he killed himself in his own apartment and actually he has written. a suicide note which is that that he did it to help. all others dying patients to do with pain did he have yes i think that all the changes in legislation after that have to be. called his name and i am always in touch with his and with with his two doctors and whenever something good happens i always write to
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them and to look we've now done this or that now we can. give people pain killers when they go home for five days in advance this is thanks to your father but there's still a long way to go we cannot and we will never have every person who needs pain killers. who without pain unless we criminalize some of the elements in our legislation today every doctor and every nurse who works with drugs who work with drugs they can be. sued in case any mistake happens in this very complicated process of prescribing drugs and actually it's not surprising that people just don't want to work with drugs and unless we deck women allies this we won't have doctors coming into the
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sphere i know that you and other. organizations have been very consistent in logging for it to come in analyzation. i know that there is also a problem in the field. dealing with the use of foreign money in that sector and we talked about these. people in the apple there are people in the government and in russia they structure of the government is very dominated i think by one age group with one very specific background so that creates a lot of suspicion around foreign money coming into the country how big of an issue is that. i think it is still an issue for some charitable organizations for some and geos. it is no longer an issue for in jews that work in health or in education as far as i understand this lore because. we actually fought
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to change some of the wording in the slower and we succeeded and now if you work in this of that fear you actually can all be some changes in the legislation and get foreign money and you will not be for in a jet you're talking about this threshold exemption from foreign agents law or socially oriented anywhere else but what it also created is it created the motivation for other angles to register as a socially oriented for example the analytical center of the russian government is registered believe it or not as a socially oriented our job which is clearly not that is my primary function don't you think that this will create another reason for this law either to be revised or to be perhaps stricken all together there are so many lords in social sphere which i think should be revised starting with committee of lore and and joe is the smallest of the evils here. and. at
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a certain point. i stopped myself and i said. either i work in police of care and try. to make everyone not only believe that people can die in love without pain and with dignity but also have it in real life not only in that but we have to limit your film or i will die anyway so because there are so many things i want to fight against and as frustrating as it may be i think you would agree the palliative care at least provides a very inspiring example of where social activism has been impactful that cannot be said about many other areas for example in the penitentiary system the government is not very welcoming of either public contribution or public oversight what do you think makes palliative care so different because you said that people believe in blood and yet somehow you've been they believe in in blood which is the russian
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award or a special access or another test but i think there is still a record of achievement there would be exploitive care special very simple death everyone is afraid of death and when you tell them through this can be frightening this can be with a lot of this can happen with a lot of love around it can happen with no suffering who just want to open the door in a little bit just a little bit. how it is and also this is one of the spheres when you can very easily feel that. he will have his perfect with that you know no problems all that what really matters that we're really hurts that's a real problem it's here in hospice on this back that's what's happening now when you're losing somebody you love losing forever and also in this fear people can feel they are needed very easily because when you are side by side
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with somebody who is completely helpless everything you do being near holding a hand scratching somebody its shoulder for them doing this or combing hair or feeding or giving water to drink every minute of your life here you feel that you are needed it's very much but also when you say about a penitentiary system i think that as death in fact is everywhere you go outside and you know that in every big block of flats some disturbing of this mode this is a huge city death is in. prisons death is in children hospitals death isn't grown up hospitals death isn't flats actually police chief care is something is an instrument with which you can go into a prison for example one of my dreams if i have two wives is to settle
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a first hospice for prisoners in russia and i hope maybe they can i ask of perhaps the final question because our time is running out i came across a recent poll the other day suggesting that two thirds of russians sixty seven percent participated in some kind of charitable activity in two thousand and seventeen that's a big number a thing at all thirds two thirds no i don't believe in it cannot be true while we will leave it to the pollsters but i think at least that this is my perception that more and more people are ready to contribute to their community and i wonder. from your. and how should perhaps could the government to stimulate and to use that social energy to contribute to this is all about and i think. of that not two thirds but much less than two thirds but the amount of people who are involved it grows in escalates sometimes people take part in charity
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and they don't even understand it when they buy a product potatoes in mcdonald's or when they put some koreans into a special box in a supermarket they don't realize what it's going for. but it will grow there's another idea or whatever they say that only ten percent of money that can be collected from. citizens into charity to go into charity is now collected only ten out of one hundred possible i think what government can do but they have actually started doing already they have to welcome volunteers they have to create special conditions for volunteers who. want to volunteer in a hospital at least give them a possibility of free transport tickets for example they have to talk about it they have to be open they can create some special conditions for students and
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trying universities as it is in europe if you volunteer and you can prove your volunteer activity you will have some i don't know preferences. there's a lot that can be done actually well perhaps opening up the government for i think it. could help making it more transparent and more inclusive well currently i definitely believe then. that charity and volunteering are those two things that will keep the country united that will. somebody said couple of weeks ago a person to another person is a volunteer and if if we believe in it if we follow it. we will stay. nation which has hope rather had hope well you know on
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this very inspiring though to have to leave it there really appreciate your time interrogators please keep the conversation going on our social media pages and i hope to see you again same place and time here on worlds apart of.
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snow worm good. to come in you stupid twenty nine. youse knows to. east oklahoma. into. the saw in the four hellish cold so. it would be yes. but. you know.
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human rights watch claims that fifty two iraqi civilians were executed by fighters as revenge for supporting myself. last. summer fires reported at the largest anti-government protests to grip in iran since two thousand and nine. the streets in several cities as well. when is it setting up safe zones for women for the new year's eve celebrations to prevent a repeat of the mass sexual assaults seen previously in cologne. for the latest on those stories you can head to our t.v. dot com stay with us for going underground on the main events of two thousand and seventeen but if you're watching us in the u.k. or ireland in award winning comic book writer is the guest on sputnik's stay with us.


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