tv PBS News Hour PBS January 11, 2010 7:00pm-8:00pm EST
captioningponsored by macneil/lehrerroductions >> ifill: good evening. i'm en ifill. sa sex marriage: do states have the power to maket legal? >> bwn: and i'm jeffrey brn. on the newshour tonit, a case in feder court stems from a ban on g marriages approved by calirnia voters in 2008. spcer michels reports from san francisco,nd ray suarez debriefs margaret talbotf the "new yorr." >>fill: then, a debate on how to pay for health careeform. >> bro: special correspondent kira kay looks at e race agnst time to rebuild the
poorest nation ithe western hemisphere. >> somsay that we just want to get out misery to get into poverty. d i believe that is a beautifusentence for haiti, because it is extly what we are aiming forht now. ifill: the supreme court revisits a ce it decided last year, this time with a new justice on theench. margaret warner gets theetails from marcia coyle of the "national law urnal." >> bwn: and the latest late night drama, as c drops jay leno from its primime lineup. >> you know, actlly if they did cancel us, it uld be an easy me for me, because i still haven't unpacked frothe last show th cancelled us fr. so everything'still back there, so it fine! >> ifill: that's all ahe on tonight's pbs nehour. major funding fothe pbs newshour is providedy: what the world needs now is energy. the engy to get the economy humming again. e energy to tackle chaenges like climate chae.
what if that energy came froan energy company? every da chevron invests $62 million people, in ideas-- seeking, tching, building. fueling growth around e world to move us allhead. this is the power human energy. chevron. >> this is t engine that connects abundt grain from the american hrtland to haran's best-sling whole wheat, while keeping 60 billion pous of carbon out othe atmosphere evy year. bnsf, thengine that connects us. the wiiam and flora hewlett foundation, working solve social andnvironmental probms at home and around the world. d with the ongoing support o these institutio and foundaons.
and... this program was made poible by theorporation for public badcasting. and contributions to your pbs statiofrom viewers like you. thank yo >> ifill: the fight over gay marrge went to federal court in californitoday in a case that may have tionwide implications. newshourorrespondent spencer michels begins our cerage. >> reporter: gay marrie had been bore the state courts previoly but now it was before a federal judge. the issue ishether the u.s. constituon bars states from outlawing same-s marriage. specificly the case turns on propositio8, the california referendum that barred g maiage and that won voter approval in novemberf 2008. outside the urthouse today, the hotly bated issue brought t a range of emotions. >> intense interest in t
proposition 8 case at fedel court here in san ancisco brought dends mostly from those who favor sa-sex marriage for television coverage of thtrial. e court said it had received 140,000 emls, all but 32 of them, favoring television ansmission. the judgsaid he would allow ch transmission on a delayed basis on you-te, but the u.s. supreme court overrul him at least for theime being and said they would ha somethg more to say by wednesday. t the main focus is on gay marriage itself. ponents of prop-8 staged protestsong before it paed. gay uples say they will be watching the proceedings osely. san franciscans hn lewis and stewart gafney were plaintiffs in previous gay marriage it and are among those same- sex couples legally maied. >> stewartnd i have been a loving, commitd couple for 23 years. we'rlegally married in the state ofalifornia. but we're not st californians.
we're americans o. we will not rest uil we have the freedom and libertiethat our constitution proses us in everyingle state in this great nation. >> repter: the judge has asked for testony on how legalizing gayarriage might affect trational marriage or any children involve in turn, suprters of the ban will arg gay marriage is stl a social experent. andr pugno is one of the attorneys argug the case for proposition 8 and agnst same- sex maiage. >> 14 miion people voted on proposition 8. to put up one or two or the tnesses and try to characteze all of prop-8 based on one or two ople's opions is really not representative. >> reporter: san francisco arted allowing gay couples to mry in 2004. and in the rt of california sameex couples briefly had the right to mry until the passage of propotion 8. taking the case into feral court could fect marriage
lawscross the country. only five statesurrently recognize same-sex marrie. 36 have banned it. the san francisco triais expected to st two to three weeks. whatever theutcome, the u.s. supre court is ultimely expected to have the last word. >> brown: ray suarez has me about this casand what's at stake. >> suarez: margaret talb has been coverinthis story for the "new yorker" magazine. r reporting on the subject appears in this week'sssue. rgaret, as we just heard spcer michels report, the voters of calirnia have spoken on this questio how did it get into urt? >> well, because two attorys, kind of unusuapair of attorneys, ted ols and david boies who people may rember from the busv.gore case in which they were on oppite sides, boies a democt and olson a republican. th decided that this oposition 8 made a good case for testing e constitutionality of
these bans osame sex marriage. they decided to mount a fair ambitious case tt they hoped wod make it and likely will make ito the supreme court. >> suarez: david bes you might fire. t ted olson is an interestg person to be arguing this. making a conrvative case for y marriage? >> it is a surpristo a lot of peopl in fact inially there was quite a bit ofkepticism out it particularly from the main line gay rightsroups who were wonring about him this kind of jony-come-lately to this ise. think they have been convinced ofis sincerity. it's a risky move. think he , from havinspent someime interviewing him, i would say he very mu lieves in this case. would argue, i think, that rriage... the supreme court has repeatedly helthat maiage is a fundamental right. while they wercertainly not he that it's a fundamental right to marry someo of the same sex, i think he is gog to argue that it's an extension ofhat right which
the preme court has repeatedly recognid. >> suarez: you mention risky move. a lot of the gayivil rights organizations thought too. initiay they opposed this effort. didn they? >> they did. they thought it s premature. th worried about it going to a supreme courthat would not be sympathetic a having a setback that ty would have toome back from. they have nerally followed the policy of the strategyf going state by state, taking it swly. trying to nvince people that the sky n't fall if state by state yoexperiment with gay marriage. and this wasot an inemental approach. th was sort of a going long d going for the gusto approach. they're worried about e ssibilities. >> suarez: they ju suffered two defeats in new jery and new york. >> they did. they d. three feats in a row. course, the district of
columbia, the ty town .. counl did vote to allow gay marriage in d.c.. >> suarez: some of tho gay civirights groups came around and start to support the boies-olson efrt in a california court but weren allowed to join the suit. what was the sategy there. >> y. i think they at a certain point d a "if you can't beat them, join them" attitude d decid to try to move forward with t lawsuit. at that point tually olson and boies were opposed tit because theyelt the they wanted to run a veryind of controlled omessage case and that this... if there were t many other parties invved th it would kind of fragment their argument. they were concerned about that. ultimatelyhe judge sided with theand did not allow these groups to inrvene. >> suarez: the majority states, as w mentioned earlier, have plicitly said there can be no gamarriage in this ate. wh are the implications for the californiaase? if propotion 8 is overturned in a courtom in san
francisco, what es it mean to those states acss the country that have passed dense of marriage acts. >> what would likely hapn is the case would be appealed, first to the 9thircuit and en to the supreme court. if the supremeourt were to rule in favor olson and boies's side, then youould have lelized same-sex maiage throughout the untry. th's a big "if" at this point but that would be the implication ulmately. >>uarez: they're counting on already starting outith how many votes on the supreme court if the casindeed does get ere? >> well, i think tt they would... theost they could hope for would bfive. that they wod have the four, we assume,iberal justices and then possibly juste nnedy who did write the inion in the case lawrence v texas which was the se that overturned t remaining domy laws that were on the books in many states. across the united stes. and he wrote a fairl sympathetic opinion tord gay rightso some people interpret thats a sign that
perhaps he might be open to considering y marriage even thou in general we identify him with a consvative group of jtices. >>uarez: one precedent we're likely to hear abouts loving versus virgia which struck down bans againspeople of diffent races marrying. why is that germe in this case? well, for a couple of reasons. yes, thawas in 1967. it's a lanark case. well, for one thing,hat's interesting is that more people who were polled that me, more americans were opposed to inter-racial marriagehan are opposed to gay marrge today. which is ieresting. becae one of the questions about th case is, is this shing the court to get out too far ahd of where public opinion is? if you look at just th numbers inolls you actually see that more ople are in favor of g marriage today. but then you have the ate-by state. you look at the state- by-state pictu. we do have these neay 40 stateshat have passed these
endments against gay marriagehereas at the time of loving versus virnia there were only 15 stas in the south that still had tse old laws on the oks. so you can kd of use th precedent example either way, depenng on whether you want to be heful about this case. suarez: quickly before we go, who is the pitioner, the mirand the roe, who is the case bui around, who is the person they're gng to court in for of? >> well, there are two cples whare plaintiffs in this case. one is a female coupleho liven berkeley and have four chilen. and the other is a male couple whare from southern cafornia and, you know, they have decided they're willing to be thpublic face of this casehat is controversial and may take several yea to unfoldbut they are definily willing plaintif. >> suarez: margaret talbot of the new yorker, thanks for joining us. >> thank you
ifill: for the other news o the day, here's ri sreenivasan in our newsroom. >> sreivasan: senate majority leader harry rd defended his rerd on race today and his relations with psident obama. the nevadaemocrat apologized over the weekend for rarks about then-cdidate obama in 08. according the new book "game change," reisaid the illinois senator could be ected because heas a "light-skinned" african-american "with no gro dialect, unls he wanted to ha one." toy, outside las vegas, reid said in facthe actively encouraged mr. obama to run. >> i can sti remember the meing that took place in my fice with senator barack obama telling hithat i think he could be elected presidt. i've apologized tohe president. i've apologized toveryone that is within the sound of voice that i could used a better choice ofords. >> sreenasan: on sunday some leading republicans calledor reid to resign but today, a spokesman for rd
said hhas no intention of stepping down as majority leader. he says e people that make hay out of him mes no sense. this was deadly day for nato forces in afghanistan,ith three americs and three other western soldiers killed. the americandied in a firefit with militants in the south. ill, the top u.s. commander afanistan, general stanley mcchrystal, said the te is turninagainst the taliban. >> i believe that we have changed the way we opera in afghanisn. 've changed some of our structures. i belie that we are on the way to convincinthe afghan people that we arhere to protect them. we've en at this for about sen months now. i beeve we've made progress. it'sot a completed mission yet. >> sreenivas: another 30,000 s. troops are deploying to afghanista that will raisthe total american force tre to nearly 9800. the suicide rate is rising shary among young male veterans between 18 and 29 yrs of age. between 2005 and 27, the rate
of soldiers who took tir own lives increased 26%, accding to the veters affairs department last year at lst 349 active duty andeserve service members committed icide, more than were killed by emy action in iraq oafghanistan. citrus growers iflorida struggletoday to outlast a wavef record cold. south flora was under a hard freeze warning, and adings in miami fell bow 37 degrees. farther noh, growers kept spying crops to protect them withn insulating coat of ice. but a spokesman r the state's largest citrus growe' group rerted "considerable" damage. florida produces 4 of the world's orange juiceupply. there were signs of confence today among the big ree detroit tomakers. at the annual deoit auto show, chrysler said it's plaing to hire more gineers and other workers, starting next monda general motors rorted it can't ke up with demand r new vehicles. it said it may reon some osed factories. and ford won two major award for truck of the year and r of thyear. it's the oy major u.s.
autoker not to accept federal rescue aid. on wl street today, industrial stocks got aoost on news of higher exports from cha. the dow jones industal average gaed more than 45 points to close just under 10,4. the nasdaqell more than four and a half points close at 2312. those are some of thday's main stories. i'll be back athe end of the program wi a preview of what you'll find tonight on the newshour's web sit but for now, back toeff. and still to come the newshour, the strule to create jobs, expand iustry, and attract investors in hti; the difference one jtice makes on thsupreme court; and the drama in network comedy. >> ill: that follows our debate over taxing high-co insurance plans. senate and houseemocrats who are hashing out e differens between their health care reform bills behind closed doors have a major disagreement on eir nds. hoto pay for it. should high-value inrance plans be tax or should high- income houselds pay the
price? the senate proposal, wch president obama suppts, would raise about $150 blion over six years. the money would comerom imposing an excise tax of 40 on the poron of any policy thatosts more than $8500 for indiduals or $23,0 for milies. the ngressional budget office estimates tt would affect 1 in 5 workers by016. the whithouse and some economists arg this approach would rein in heal care spending by discraging excessive surance coverage. the patient protection and afrdable care act is passed. >> ifi: just before the senate approd its version of health carreform last month, president obama enrsed the so-called cadillac taxn a natial public radio news interview. >> i'm on record asaying that taxing cadillac plans that don't make pele althier but just make more money ouof their pockets
because they're paying me for insurance than they ed to, that's actuay a good idea, and that hps bend the costurve. thatelps to reduce the cost of health care over thlong term. i think that's a smart tng to do. >> ifill: t house democrats and labor unions remai steadfast in their op igs the cadillac tax whichhey argue would rm working people. the presidt of the afl-cio along withther labor leaders presd his argument at the white house day. he also made hisase in a speech to the nationalress club. >> instead of taxing theich, the senateill taxes the middle class. by taxing workers' heah plans. not just union members' heth care plans in fact, most the 31 miion uninsured or insured employees who will be hit the excise tax are not uni meers. >> ifill: house leaders suppora plan to raise taxes on families earning a millio dolls or more and individuals o earn $500,000
or mor for more othe pros and cons of the so-cald "cadillac tax," we turn to jonathan gber, a health economist at e massachusetts stitute of tenology. he is al a paid consultant to the obama administtion. and josh bivs, an economist at the economic poly institute, a think tank thareceives some funding fr labor groups. welcomto you both. jonathan grur, why is this a od idea? >> well, thankfor having me ongwen. i think it's a good id becauswe need to look at wh happens currently when people make the decisi between geing paid in wages or health insuranc if m.i.t. offe to give me a $1,000 raise i'm only gointo takeome about $600 because i'll be tad. if it sa here's $1,000 extra fringe benit in our health insurance i get to keep the whole $,0 because i'm not taxed on that. that tax subsidy costs o nati about $250 billion a year. and leads byany economists inhe
cbo timates to cessive health insurance verage and rising health care costs. what this bill would do is slightly scaleack that existing tax bias, by taxing the most expensive plans o the amnt they spend above a certain threshold. and basically scaling ba the give-ay we now have to the most eensive health insurance plans. >> ifill: let meust let josh bivens in here now because h says it's a giveway to the existing health insurance ans. what do yosay? >> i don'tnow if i'd call it a give-away. i do think it's not a grt idea. onproblem is it's often... it's called a dillac tax. the idea is th were taxing outlandish plans that pride generous covage. it's not very well targeteat all. i would be in far of a well targeted way to do this t this is a ve poorly targeted licy proposal. >> ill: the people who benefit om it are just middle class fol? >> iould say there are reass why health insurance ans are expensive and gerosity is not necessarily one of them. we have very dysfunctional health insurance market d
height cost plans do notqual gh value plans. research says of thentire spread of health insurance premiums the cost. only 4% of that can be accounted for by generity of plans. you're likely to have an expensive plan if u work for a small firm, ifou work with a firm with an aging work force. 's not about cadillac plans or lavish nefits it's people who work in the kinds of workples. it's poorly targeted. >> ifill: are you taeting thright people, jonathan gruber? >> think you are, gwen. i think josh's points are right. i think you ne to remember that we' not talking about a new tax on the people. we're talking about saying they crently get an enormous tax break. we're going slightly scale thatack and use the money to coveuninsured people. so the issue is,re you willing to slightlscale back an exiing tax break we give the most expensive plans to raise $150 billi that makes surance affordable for the poores is that's a tradoff we should be willing to make. >> ifill: are wealking about a new tax or are we taing
about letting f... relieving someone from a tax cut ty were alws get something. >> i think that'a distinctn. one y or the other we're going to have to finan health ce reform with higher tas on some people relative to what they're paying. >> ill: you're questioning who those people should . >> i'm also questiong whether or nothis is the best w to do it. we have a comping proposal in the house reform billhat much more progressive tax. it oy hits about the top 0.3% of income earr. the use tax raises more money so we need fewer savin in the heah care sector. the one reason why you have thpreference for the excise tax over the hlth bill which has a much more progreive surcrge is the policy virtues that prossor gruber is talking about. i don't think those policy rtues are anywhere nea large enough to juify going with a much less proessive tax. >> ifill: when you talk abt this tax, jonathan grube when you talk out this so- called cadillac tax, what is actually taxed? at is included in snit. >> what is actuay taxed is the
dollar value of heth inrance plans that exceeds that threshold. let's take a simple exampl imagine that mhealth insurance costs $26,000 a ye for myamily. whathat means is i'll be xed on 40% of the $3,000 difference between t $23,000 threold and the $26,000 cost of my plan. or i'll pay abt $1200 a year. that is veus the current tax break i get about $9,000 a year othat plan. so is scaling back a bit. i think the main argent for it, think josh laid it out very well. it's a trade-off between. it is less ogressive although not at much less progressive but somewhat less than what proposed in the use. the other hand, it's generay viewed as one of the very few things know can actually helwith health care cost control which ian important goal of thisill . >> ifill: josh bivens,hat if you are a company that has older workers whicso many of these bricks and morta companies do, does that an you are paying an extr penalty in order to ke them insured? >> pretty much, yes.
you're going to have o key reason w you're going to ha health insurance plans that go over this thshold is if you have a rk force that has a lot oflder workers who are more likely to he expensive chronic conditio. i thineveryone agrees with this, you'reoing to see ployers scale back on the generosity of their pls to make sure th are not hit by this health insurance ta when they ale back on the generosity of their plan you're going to see hier out of pocket costs for e people wanting the sameealth care they had before d you're going to see aig risk of exposure to th risk of out of pocket costs goinon to consumers and households. >> ill: there's a big fference, jonathan gruber, right now actly in the way you add this up, exaly how the money uld be... how that cost cve would be bent and how the moy would be saved. you're sayg that by creasing this tax you're basically in the e going to increase wages and save ney. he's saying he's not so sure that wl happen. am i ierpreting that coectly? >> that's exactly right, gn. basically we agree thaone way the main w employers will react to this taxs by
scaling ba the generosity of their plans. would argue that there's no evidce that that scaleback wi actually reduce health. we'rtalking about the plans of even older workers. thplans that receive this threshold are veryvery generous. they'll be mov to very genero plans. 90% of those higher s will go to workers below 00,000 a year in income. so it's basicallgoing to be trading off excessivy generous benefits for gher wages for their worker >> ifill: jonaan gruber, you've consulted with e administration on th. a lot of house democrats thi this is a al breaker. what do you do abo that? >> well, i thi partly it's about education. partly it's abougetting reasablyable conversations like the ones we're havi re instead of ptomemic conversations that don'take the points clear. i think it's abo compromising. andditional medicare tax and a compromise whe you
recognize the cost savings potentials, recognize the prioties of the president but at the same time mov towards the house byaving more progressive reven raisg other taxes like the medire tax or a small millionaire's tax. >> ifillwhat about that, sh bivens? >> some sort of coromise could useful here. >> ifill: li what? >> i mean, one, ha the nate bill move a little bit toward the hou. but if youant to do some ki of cost sharing i think you have to actually tget excessive befits. i n't think the excise tax does it. one can image a way of constructi a thax that goe after plans that are geners in terms of actual generosy of coverage. >> ifill: what is an eessive benefit. >> that's a biproblem too. one person's excesve benefits is anotr person's insulaon from risk. you have people, younow, i'm enough of an economist to beeve that people trade-off wages for the health insurance benets. they've voted th their feet. they clearly val these benefits. exceive is tough. but i would y if we are
going to enforce more st sharing to benthe cost curve down whi is what this excise tax is a about we need to go after costs at do seem to be cessive. that doemot mean expensive. expensive and geneus in the dysfunctional american healt insurance marketre too very diffent things. >> ifi: and the final point from you, jonathan gber. i think this is exactly the kind of conversaon we need toave more of in the closing weekof this debate and recognize the trade-offs. the key int is we need the money to make heth insurance affordable for low-incom people. this is a wiwin solution at can raise the moneynd control heal care costs. i think it critical that it be parof the final health care package. >> ifill: if you canet it passed. >> absolutely. >> ifill: ank you both very much. >> thank y. >> you bet. thanks, gwen. >> ifill: next, e supreme court visits the constition's confrontation clause. margaret warr has that story. >> warner: sev months ago, the
high court red 5-4 that crime lab resultcannot be used in a trial less the analyst who prared those results teifies, and is subject to crosexamination. today, theourt took the issue up again, in arug case from virgia that's remarkably similar to lasyear's. the fference between them may come down to who's sting on the benc for more, we're ined by marcia coe of the "national law journal." >> warner: the gring question iwhy would the court choose to take uan issuthey had just decided last year? >> i tnk there may be two reasons here. i mean we' never quite sure why the court ages to review a ca because the court don't say. firsof all, this case from virginia is noidentical to the case the court decided last term, en though it's veryimilar in the issue it presents. it may be th last term's decisionhich was 5-4-- and you on need four justices to
agree to hear a case it may behat the four justices who dissented last terwanted to take another st at this issue. and this case presented a similar issue. it may be, too, that se of the justes in dissent were hoping to naow the decision that was madlast term. secoly, this was a 5-4 decision. it created a lot of controversy in the stes. one of the justices the majority lasterm, justice souter, is no loer on the bench. justicsotomayor has replaced him. she y have a different view. so it may put the decision last term at rk of being overrud. >> wner: was it her background as a precutor and the fact that as a circu courjudge she more often than not ruled with the government, dn't she, in law enforcement criminal case? the speculation is she might have different view cause she's a former prosecor.
an yes, she was a fairly tough law-and-ordejudge. althou she did le for the dendant fairly often as well. she's very evehanded as a dge. warner: there were actually two cases toy similar certainly to one ather. is there anythg particular about the caseor are these pretty standard drugases and the big issue is really how they were tried at the tal? >>hey are definitely standard drug poession cases. two separa cases, separate cidents. one inlving police finding drugs in a car and the oer involving police finng drugs in an apartment. at trial, the state intruced lareports in these two trials. certifying what e drug was, cocaine, a the amount of the drug in eachase. defendants oected to those lab reports sayinghat putting the lab ports in without the anysts who made them testifying olated their corontation rights. they were coicted.
they appealed. that'shy they're in the supreme urt today. th lost their appeal before the virgia supreme court. >> warner:hen you say confrontation rights, yomean that rht in the constitution we all know fromelevision and civics classhat an accud has the right to confront theitness against hi >> absolutely. starting in out 2004 the supremcourt began to reexamine the confrontation clause. and has ised a series of opinions now in whh it's holding tohe history and the actual wording of that cuse that the prosecution has t produce witnesses who nt to give testimonial evidenc >> warner: wt did the lawyer for these two defendantswhat did he arg today and how did the justicrespond? >> richard friedman represented the two crimin defeants today. he sd basically that last term's decision, kno as melinddiaz explicitly said
that an accused's ability subpoena the lab analy was not a substition, an adequate substitute for e corontation clause right. this is what virginia's la does. but thwrinkle here is that virginia says that theccused can demand that the prosution produce the witness,ot that the prosecution must proce the witness. >> warner: jusce sotomayor, what were her questionlike? >> she focused mainly onhe state which was represted by the state solicitor genel stevenccullough. she asked, well, younow, the criminal defendants did what reasonablcriminal dendants do. they objted to the introducon of the lab reports. how were they supposed tknow th under virginia law they were supposed toemand the presence of the analysts? and e state responded that, well, it's really the fense torney's responsibility to preserve t confrontation clau right.
t then she added, well, you know, how do we articute a ruleere that off veyates defendan' concerns that the prosution is always going to introduce testimony by affidavit. and fourth, the defens council... and force the defense council to call an adverswitness and do what shcalled a cold cross-examinatio meaning that t prosecution doesn't first amine the witness. >> warner: so ir to say or do you think she tipped her handn either way? >> i don't think s did. i think her qutions, as they've been in e past, were very pointed, ry even handed of a sides. >> wner: the last question. she's been on the court thre months. i know there haven't been an big decisis yet. in h questioning, what can you tell about wt kind of juste she's turning out to be? very careful, cautious. ecific. fact oriented juste. she'is one of the... among thmost aggressive questions on a bench on a bench that's a very hot beh
for quesons. >> warner: meaning she aska lot of them. >> yes. she may well make th difference in is case as we spe. >> wner: marcia coyle, thks for being back with us. >> my pleasure. >> brown: next who will ve the last laugh? we check in the changing chairs in late night tv. >> brown: who willave the last laugh? check in on the changing chairs in late night tv. >> i don't think the's any truth to the rumor. nbc only cancels you when you're in first ple. >> brownactually jay leno's bosses at nbc decided he not ok at least not at 10:00 p. where they had moved his show last september . the experiment seems thave failed. leno will move back to his o time sl at 11:30 where he's been the ratings kinfor some 15 yrs. conan o'brien who took ove the old tonight showhat lost about half leno's audice
would keephe name but move his starting time to 105 a.m. anjimmy fallon and his late night show will al be pushed a ha hour later to a 1:05 a.m. start. in the 10:00 p. slot the jay lenohow has attracted in 5.8 million viewers, a good numb for late nightnot so good for prime time. local affilies rely on that for as the leain to their 11 o'clock necast. the next big questn for nbc is whether con o'brien will accept the mov friday night before the official aouncement he was tang some humorous jabs at his employer. >> i'm sure yove all heard the rumors, ladies and gentlemen. nbc has finally come up with an excing new idea. theyant me to follow jay no. >> brown: the y leno show will end its 10:00 p. run on february 11 as nbcegins its verage of the winter olympics.
friday lemo was already joki about his next move. >> they did canc as it would ben easy move for me because i stilhaven't unpacked from the last shothey canceled. everything istill back there so it's fine. >> brown: more on l this now from roberthompson of >> brown: more on all this n from robert thomon of syracuse iversity, where he's foundin director of e blyer center for televion and popular culture. and kim sters, who covers the entertainment business as st kcrw's "the business" on blic radio in los angeles. kim masters, it was the affiliates and their1:00 p.m.ewscasts. explain how thatart of the tv busess works. >> well, the affiliates rely on tir local newscasts for advertising revenue. it's a very important partf eir picture. and th found that they were long their audience. in some cases it was quite precipitous. double digit dps. dropping , newscasts dropping fromumber one to number 2 or 3. they bically told nbc that if nbc did not puljay leno at 10:00 they were goi to
start preemptinghe show. the was going to be something of a rolt. sohat is whanbc maintains really forced its hand. nbc maintas from its standpoint it woulhave stuck with jay leno foa year. >> brown: that's kim, justo stay with you, that's ev though jayeno was pulling in the numbers th everyone thght he might, i guess, right? >> well,hat's nbc's story. i meanhere's sort of a little bit of a double sak about at nbc's motive here was. nbc part just wanted to keep jay leno othe network and not allohim to set up a rival showrobably on abc or fox. buthey cast this as an attempt to save money. they dhave a very legitimate problem,s all the broadcast networ do, programming at 10:00 p. it's vy intensive to do scripted proamming. those programs when ey don't work are rlly expensive. when they do work they're no as successful ashey were in the daysf e.r., when televion audiences were less fragmented than they a now. there's a little bit of a double understandi.
nbc maintained if they could haveept leno on maybe in the suer when other competitors are doing reruns when the's less competition maybe it uld have worked but their affiliatesouldn't wait long enough to fi out. that at let is the story that nbc itelling us. >> brown: roberthompson, now we he this interesting tuation where nbc is sort of substituting one experiment for another. if you look what might happen on late night telesion. yeah. i mean they seem thave maximized their sadvantages here across the board. they seem to perhaps be contuing to do so because first they did this ry dangerous expement of putting leno on at 10:00 th didn't work. en the idea is, okay, let's try to make that go away and put him back on at 130 where he was at number one. however it sounds like there gog to make that an experime as well because it will be leno in a halfour time slot which is going tbe totally different rhythm, in structure, than leno is used to doing.
it might take him a ng time to get going on that. i think the's a sense in which they're not going back to theay things were. they're going to yetnother experint which could be just as dangerous. part of it is mply the math. th have got a surplus of programming on late nit. they've got three starand they've got two hour-long time slots. as opposed to their othe major problem which is ty have no programming replace 10:00 monday tough friday th, which i suspect they are now scrambling to find something in there that' going to do betterhan leno and filly make those afliates happy. >> brown: m masters, let's talk about the 10: slot. an nbc official was quot as saying they' going back to sics. figuring out the busess model make that work is a problem. what hapns now both at nbc and at other places? >> well, the other nworks were hoping to take mo advantage i think of the absence of a competitionn nbc than they diat 10:00. that's one of the pots that
the ad of nbc has been making with the press ishat heeded that hour to abc and cbs. fox doesn't have programming at that hour ey still didn't really do better. they in ct went slightly backwa in their ratings. th're all going to try to gure out how to make this work. the big problem at tt hour tends toe dvrs increasingly. if youe not seeing something at 10:00hat you particularly want to watcyou're going to tch what you have saved up on your dvr. what nbc will do is u'll see things like w and order whicwas never really a great fit at 9:00 anyway. moref a gritty crime drama moving into that 100 hour. you'll see some "dateline." and they are reaching t for a buh of very traditional, scripted programmingrom very establisd producers like jerry uckheimer or like dick wolf with the law and der l.a. they're talking about a rockford files remake. as they say, there going back to bacs. it almost ironic they were
telling a short time ago theyere going to reinvent telesion. all of that has been discarded. it's back to bics. brown: bob thompson just to brden even further. there'the dvr. one new ctor here. the's the competition from thinternet which we talk about a lot. but a lot of ts also has to do with competition fromable i gues right, in terms of what the networks are facing >> that's rit. i think this had aot less to doith the new digital relution and the internet and all the rest oit. i think this g down to good old fashioned fragmentation the audience which h been happening sinccable started cking in the 80s. when you've got soany other chois of places to watch e networks are having a hard time gettingudiences big enough to stify the kind of expenditures forhese sorts scripted shows. i woul't be a bit surprised if nbc d perhaps even the secondlace network sometime inhe foreseeable future
didn't cede the enti 10:00 ur back to the affiliates. as a matter of fact whenhere were discussions aut what to do with this lenthing one of the suggestions thaffiliates made w simply give the hour back to us. fo of course, doesn't play anything on prime me from 10:00 to 11:. they let their affiliateplay early version of the news. my guess is that sething like tt could probably happen not so much for t first place network whh is generally doing fine with three hours of prime time night. ifou're in third place, that'sot so much the case. >> brown: ankim masters, just in oulast minute and speakingf fox, i mean a lot of this still pends on conan o'brien i guess who haan teresting contract at nbc would have to deal with. and the pontial of perhaps ving. 've heard even some talks about i guess he in talks with some of his representatives wi fox. what do you know about tha it's very unclear what's going to happen with conan a what can hpen with conan ntractually. nbc certainly not telling us.
i disagree with boa little bi i thinleno an 11:30 is fine. a mono log a a guest and out. what ithe tonight show if it's on at 12:05? will fox really benterested? they're doing pretty wel right now. they don want to write a big check toonan. he's beeout at 11:35 and it hasn't gone th well. all of these questionsre ill to be dealt with. >> brownall right. kim masters and bert thomon, thank you both very much. >> tnk you. >> thank you. >> brown: now, anoer of our storieon fragile states around the world. tonight:aiti. special corresndent kira kay reports on the struggle to overcome decades of polical turmoil d extreme poverty. >> reporter: in a small garment facty in haiti's capital port-au-ince a class ofew recruits is being taught how to locktitch. an amecan is here to help tackle t learning curve.
>> what we have ara lot of studts that have never work at all any place. they need to lea everything. fromhe work ethic to running thmachine to sewing to threading. the very first dayhey were a little intimidated by it. >> reporter: ts initiative is beingunded with u.s. government dollars it represents a gnificant rethink of foreign aid. harnessinghe potential of the private sector to reild a fragile couny. alongside more tradition humanitarian efforts. 20-year-old never wento school and can't rea but shs hoping a job in haiti's garment industryill change her life and improve her country too. >> i like wt they are teachi us. i hope they can keep doi it for a ng time because there are a lot young people in the streets witht jobs. >> reporter: haiti is stl a struggling cntry to be sure. t for the first me in years there is a palpable feeling of hope he. and ground zero is this instrial park where
factories, moth balleduring years instability, are now ing brought back to life. the goal is create tens of thousas of jobs as fast as possible. fromhe 1960s to the 1980s under the dictats haiti was known for assembling garmes for thu.s. market including stores like sears and k. penny. but after the ouer of the diators the country spiraled into cha. coups and street violence om within and a united naons econic embargo enforced by u.s. warships. investors fled. so did thousands ohaitians, many heading for u.s. ores in rickety boats. by 2006 hai had hit a miseble low point. >> it was really a war zone. >> repter: factory owner geor sistine remembers the gang violence that sprd from a nearby slum to his ftory wall. >> bullets coming through e roof hitting workers. thlast one was sitting right here, as a matr of fact.
we just fixed e hole. evy time it was a panic d producti suffered. after a while could not... i s losing too much money so i had to close. >> reporr: but just as he was closing his door the tide started to rn. the election othe new prident reduced political stri and brought in a series of reforms. th his blessing, a united nationpeace keeping force ready in the country resolved to t tough on the crippling gang vlence. even taking casualties. with months, the urban warfare had largy stopped. haiti's popution has mostly accepted the peacekeepers escially the brazilians whose own experience with ci slums helped theunderstand the b here. >> this is t poorest aa of port-au-ince. >> reporte they still patr this slum which st a few years ago was perhaps the st dangerous place in t western hemisphe. outside what used to ba main ng headquarters, still pock
marked with bull holes, brazian peacekeepers today serve more as crossing guard than warriors. >>aiti iso longer the place where people are kidnped by the score every month. is no longer a place where armed pele drive around in vehicles shooting up the tow >> reporte u.s. ambassador kenneth merton is back in haiti for the thd time in his plomatic career. he says s. governmt policy in haiti is now being shaped to take advantage of this mont of stability. >> we ed a partner here to work with. that ptner can't be other ngos. it needs to be t haitian state. >> reporr: the task of rebuilding haiti is undeniab huge. it is the poort country in the western hemihere. more thahalf its people live on just a llar a day. public serces like health care and a free edation are almost nonexisnt. >> we just wanto get out of misery to get to poverty. it's what you are aiming f right now. >> reporr: this man is hai's prime minister.
>> weave a country where people are not worng. the capaci to increase is almo 0. if creing an environment to create js , attracting new investorcoming from haiti but mainly creating jobs, creating a good envinment. from there i belie you can tackle all the problems. reporter: and so as part of its neinitiative to partner with hti's government and spur the rurn of investors, the united states coress last yeapassed what is caed the hope 2 act. it allowgarments assembled in haiti to be solduty free in the u.s. and haits investment push is getting heavyweight help former presint bill clinton warecently appointed the u.n. scial envoy to haiti. he's come the country with scores opotential investors in tow. ey looked at haiti's garment
industry and fledgling agricuure and tourism sites as wel >> we knowhat this is a great opportunity not onlyor investors to come and make a profit but for theeople of haiti to have a more sure ana more broadly shared prospeus future. >>he whole of haiti's budget would not have broht that ki of support , advertising and exposure president clinton's knoc on somedy's door and says why don't u put 1% of your business in haiti, that rson is goi to listen. >> reporte clinton's support and the hope ledge ratn... legislatioare keeping this businessman busy. he now the official point person for this new investme anhis phones haven't stopped ringing en during our terview. >> we have five differt people who have di different tential industrial park sis so i have to be like a dispatcher. investors fr brazil, from eland, androm korea
call me one afterhe other. it'seen very hectic, believe me. it's a good problem toave. >> reporter: but all thi promise of haiti's expandi garment industry en if lasts isn't enou to pull this country enrely back from the brink. that in large part because more than 60% of t pulation here lives inhe countride. and risks ing left out of haiti'moment of hope as investnt money gets funneled into the cit this person is a long ny time grassate roos oanizer in haiti. everything should be done to imove the land and to see how at can be used and that did beefled. >> reporter: she says she wants to make su the tougher but ultimatelyore promising area of agricultural development doesn't get sidelined in favor of quicfix garment jobs >> it could be iortant for the international community and the government to negotiate or to give me priority to more sustainae job creation.
>> reporter: en that urban factory work offs little more thaa subsist ens ling. e minimum wage here was just raised to $3 day. that still less than half what similar js pay just across the border inominican reblic. but it isn't stoing haitians from lining up for intviews. >> rht now the needs are so great here in terms employment, any employme really. i undersnd the needs that people see iterms of making sure that workers are trted faly and compensated fairly. those are partf the prisions that are in the hope bill where haithas reed to allow representatives fromoreign labor organitions into the factories to make an assessment how these wkers are being tread. >> repter: any development, be it urban or ruralwill rely on continued ability. and there are worries. the united nationseace keeping force won't stay he fover. so it's focung on rehabiliting andxpanding haiti's poli force. one day perhaps soon take its place.
it's a tall order toind, vet and educate the ,000 new officers needed, and there currently aren't enoug weaponfor them anyway. a recent training exerse focused on protectinthe country's politil leaders fromotential attacks. the exerci highlights fears of polical instability here. and tensns have indeed ightened recently. 15 political parties, including that of deposebut still popular foer president an-bertrand aristide were banned from elecons coming up nexfebruary. >> the election peods in haiti haveften been turbult periods. if we ve seriouproblems wi election resus that give to, say, potential investors the oblem... the perction that haiti is perhaps entering another peod of instability, that
will cost haians dearly, i'm afraid. >> reporter: u.s. ambassador merton says bluntly haiti doesn't have many morehances to gethis right. >> we really need them to understand that this m be the st time that they are going toave this level of international community intere and willingness to helput , particularly finaially quite honestly. >> reporter:his may be the last time donorsre really going to puto much effort into haiti. i think so. the situation has beme fosed. now somethg needs to be done. >> reporter: it's a ra ainst time for haiti to convince its pple and the wod that this moment of promise can be me permanent. >> ifill: r fragile state series >> brownour "fragile states" seri is produced in partrship with the bureau for international repoing and the pulier center on crisis reporting. again, t major developments of
the day. a federal trial began san francisco onhether it's constutional for states to ban gay marriage. senate majity leader harry reid said he's ready to mo on after apologizing for raci comments about president oba in 2008. and three moremerican troops were killed afghanistan. thnewshour is always online. harireenivasan, in our newsroom, priews what's there. hari? >> sreivasan: we look at a new udy showing most original reporting inhis age of new media comes from old mia, especially newapers. the detailcome from tom senstiel of the project for excellence ijournalism. learn more abo which health insurance pocies qualify as e so-called "cadillac" plans that would be taxeunder the senate proposa sehow four foreign policy experts rate predent obama's first year ioffice. and art beat,atch an interview with terryeachout, author oa new biography on jazz legend louis armsong. all that and more is oour web site, newshour.pbs.o. gwen? >> ifill: and th's the newsho for tonight.
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