tv Meet the Press NBC January 3, 2016 10:00am-11:00am CST
republican establishment's anti-trump or anti-cruz. john kasich and rand paul join me live. plus anger in america. some surprising results from our new esquire survey. and guess what? white men, they're not the angriest. and jerry seinfeld, in a car, getting coffee, with the president of the united states. >> do you ever think about every person you talk to is putting on an act, a total show? >> it's a problem. >> and joining me for insight and analysis this sunday morning are host of msnbc's hardball chris matthews. "the washington post's" columnist jennifer reuben. white house political director under george w. bush and a cnbc contributor sarah fagan. and "the washington post" columnist eugene robinson. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning.
we can really focus now on the presidential race. i'm teasing of course. but it does mean one thing, the sprint to the opening presidential contest in iowa and new hampshire begins. and we hope to learn the answers to at least these three questions. will trump voters show up? who's going to be the anti-trump and anti-cruz establishment candidate? and can democrats truly get excited about hillary clinton? just look at how packed this schedule is over the next seven days in iowa. the presidential candidates will hold a total of 44 events. that's just in the next week. by the way, 28 of those events are by ted cruz alone. an acknowledgment that iowa is must-win for the texas senator. in new hampshire the story is similar. 58 events scheduled in the next week. an acknowledgment, actually, that more candidates knew new hampshire as do or die than iowa now. and as for the polling, it's catnip, but be cautious. in our most recent nbc news/"wall street journal" poll taken just eight weeks before iowa, donald trump led the republican pack with 27% closely followed by a surging ted cruz
democratic side, hillary clinton, well ahead of bernie sanders. but beware. just look at where we were eight years ago at this same stage of the race. eight weeks out, rudy giuliani was way out in front. remember how his presidency turned out? he was doubling the showing of the eventual nominee john mccain. and hillary clinton, she had an even bigger lead over that illinois senator named barack obama. bigger one than she has over sanders today. in a moment we're going to look at the developing fight between the two leading candidates, donald trump and hillary clinton over bill clinton's sexual past. and we're going to talk to two of the republican candidates who will be making their do or die stand in new hampshire. but first, let's go to the centers of the political universe for the next 37 days, new hampshire and iowa. and kristen welker and hallie jackson are standing by. let me start with hallee in iowa. we know that it's cruz or bust when it comes to iowa. but who else is in the game there? trump? rubio?
>> well, look at who's here this week, chuck. you've got ted cruz doing his 28 county six-day bus tour. he's coming out hard, trying to show his campaign is framing it that he's not taking any votes here in iowa for granted. mike huckabee is doing 150 stops here over the next month. he's got four in the can already. so he is a presence. both of these candidates doing traditional, on the ground retail politics in iowa. donald trump taking that more nontraditional stance. he will be here on saturday. for cruz, you talked about him, the big question is are expectations potentially for him too high here? yes, he's got the money. he's got the organization to go long-term the way that other iowa winners in the past have not had. but if he doesn't come in a strong first here, it will be a blow to his campaign. >> there's no doubt but third place, assuming that if cruz and trump, third place becomes an interesting battle. is it marco rubio's to lose? >> potentially, especially if you look at where the polling is now, chuck. and for rubio's campaign, they need at least, at the very minimum, a strong third place
they can afford to do that if the first two finishers are donald trump and ted cruz. but at no point in this race, especially in iowa, new hampshire, can marco rubio come in behind jeb bush, chris christie, or john kasich. he has got to pull out ahead of those establishment candidates. so, if you buy into that where is marco rubio going to spend more of his time? he's got to maintain where he is right now in iowa and he's got to build where he is in new hampshire to try to break away from that establishment pack. >> hallie jackson in iowa. now let's shift over, kristen welker is standing by in gorgeous manchester, new hampshire. and kristen, let's start a little bit with the democrats before we get into the do or die sense. look, new hampshire. very good to the clintons over the years and yet she might be an underdog there. but her big bat s&l to make sure she wins iowa, and doesn't give sanders any ground. >> absolutely. and it's a real jump-ball here right now in new hampshire, chuck. the stakes really couldn't be higher because if secretary clinton wins here in new hampshire it would allow her to
but this is a must-win state for bernie sanders. and right now, as you point out, a number of polls show that he has the lead here. he's from neighboring vermont. his message about economic equality taking on the big banks and wall street have really resonated with the progressive voters here. he has 18 field offices, and overall, in the last quarter, he raised $33 million just 4 million shy of secretary clinton. so he's in a strong spot. but secretary clinton trying to match that, she's added some today. she's deploying her not so secret weapon, former president bill clinton, tomorrow, of course, chuck as you point out, they have a relationship with new hampshire, as well. this is the spot where bill clinton proclaid that he was the comeback kid. it is the state that revived secretary clinton's chances for winning the nomination in 2008. the question is, will they be able to revive that excitement this election cycle? >> well, it's going to be something to watch. bill clinton, making his campaign '16 debut. kristen welker in new hampshire.
let the games begin. well it's no secret that the republican establishment takes a dim view of both donald trump and texas senator ted cruz. d they've been looking hard for an alternative. but who? jeb bush? marco rubio, chris christie? those three have yet to break through. the crowded gop field makes it that much tougher for any one of these so-called establishment guys to domine. nehashire or die for two candidates hoping to emerge as an alternative to trump and cruz. governor john kasich of ohio and senator rand paul of kentucky and both are joining me this morning. let me start in ohio with governor kasich. governor, good morning to you. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. >> so, new hampshire, do or die for you, are we saying this correctly? and what does do or die mean? win or just be the first guy after trump and cruz? >> well, we want to be the story, chuck. and let me just tell you that we're on the ballot now in over 30 states. we also have our resources well enough where we're actually going to be placing a television ad up this week.
just counting me out. they have all of my career. we just keep plugging along. so i want to be a story. and if i'm a story i believe i'll win the nomination if i come out of new hampshire if a strong position. >> the assumption is that you're fighting with three other candidates in new hampshire sort of for the same type of new hampshire voters. and that's marco rubio, chris christie, jeb bush and yourself. let's start with the fellow -- the governor who is surging right now, which arguably is chris christie. why is he surging right now, and why are you struggling to keep up with him? >> well, look, the latest poll we had right before christmas put me one point out of second place. so, chuck, i mean you have all kinds of polls that the last one that came out, the independent poll, put me one point behind rubio, and just seven or eight points behind trump. so we believe we are surging. and we do have a great team. and you're going to see it because of what we have on the ground with great enthusiasm. >> it doesn't say -- >> why sit the fact that you've -- voters in ohio give you high marks.
jersey, give governor christie low marks. in new hampshire that hasn't mattered. why? >> i don't know. you know, here in ohio we have a balanced budget. they don't in over in new jersey. our credit has been strengthened. their credit has been downgraded. we've got more jobs, and then beyond all of that, always the hit is he has a republican legislature. but i was chairman of the budget committee when we balanced the budget, and bill clinton was president. so, i can't explain it to you other than in ohio there's great optimism about the future here both economically and also the sense that everybody has a voice here in the state. why it's happening in new jersey, i don't know. but when you look at the records, you know, frankly ohio's doing one of the fastest growing and strongest states in the country with even rock solid pensions, which most states don't have. and so i guess that's it. >> let me ask you this, a republican strategist said this about your candidacy. i thought it was interesting. he's been trying to be aggressively bipartisan and that's kind of not where the republican electorate is. he's trying to be aggressively
seem to be resonating that much in the polls. is that what you're finding out? >> well, again, chuck, i have to tell you, we are like one point out of second place. so it is resonating. and secondly, the -- you know, the thing that's happening is the voters think the whole system is gamed. okay? and they think that the rich people, the special interests, get all the voice and they have none. and i am the voice of people who have never been listened to really very much throughout my entire career. both in the congress, and as governor of ohio. and that's the message that i have in new hampshire, and people who are worried about their jobs, or their children getting the job, i'm the one that stands up and speaks for them, including those folks who live in the shadows. so, we feel very good about where we are in new hampshire. and you know, i won't be the comeback kid i'll just be the story coming out of that state. that's what we all believe and we're hoping for. >> you've been one of these candidates that says you're going to support whoever the republican nominee is. but you had an ad that
to donald trump and fascism and the nazis. given that you ran an ad like that, how can you feel comfortable supporting donald trump as a republican nominee? >> well, first of all, that's not what that was about. it was a p.o.w. who served in vietnam and hanoi hilton, was tortured for five years and said the country needs to be brought together. the country shouldn't be divided. and i've been arguing all along that we have to have real solutions to real problems. and people who divide, or for that matter, people who have no experience, chuck let me tell you this, republicans have run around for seven years saying this, i can't believe we picked a one-term united states senator who has no experience to be president. i just sometimes wonder whether the party's got amnesia. >> but you didn't answer the question on trump. why are you comfortable with him -- >> because we got a long way to go to the nomination. i don't believe he'll be the nominee. and secondly, i'd like to see his positions become more positive. because i'll tell you this, if he comes in to ohio as a divider, can't win.
hillary clinton. we need somebody that's going to lift people and unite people. >> before i let you go, i'm going to ask you about the tamir rice decision. grand jury decided not to indict the police officers involved in that shooting. you said protesters need to be heard. so let me ask you, what did you hear? >> well, they're very frustrated. that's why we created a police and community collaborative. you notice that we had no violence in cleveland with the second controversial decision. the credit goes to the community leaders. also to the mayor. and the fact is the people in cleveland are saying, well, this is frustrating, you know, we don't want to tear our town down. in addition our chief justice, maureen o'connor is beginning to look at the whole grand jury process. this. let's just hope that the situation can continue and it can be peaceful, even though people still are disgruntled and want to you called it a controversial decision. it sounds like you don't agree with the grand jury's decision. >> i don't comment on grand jury decisions. that's for the people of
people are on both sides of the issue. they feel very strongly the loss of i 12-year-old life and of course it's going to be controversial, chuck. >> all right, governor john kasich. >> happy new year. >> happy new year to you, sir. thanks for being on. let me turn to now a little bit south of ohio into kentucky, republican senator rand paul. senator paul, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> thanks for having me. >> i looked at your campaign schedule. the last public event you had was on december 16th. that was in nevada after the last debate. you haven't been to iowa since i believe the 12th, new hampshire before that. i have to ask, senator, what's going on? two weeks off the campaign trail. are you still fully running? >> you know, i also believe in being with my family. i also had to hone up my surgical skills. i've been doing some pro bono surgery. also had a few fund-raising trips around the country in between then. but i think we've been to iowa and new hampshire as much or more than any other candidate. i'll be in new hampshire actually new hampshire this
york and then i'll be in iowa for the rest of the week. so, we also do a job. i mean, i have a job as senator. i'm one of the few of the candidates that actually shows up to vote, both cruz and rubio are missing the vast majority of their votes. i feel i have an obligation to the taxpayer that pays my salary. >> i was just going to say you've taken to twitter quite a bit in that time. first it was to celebrate festivus. we have a big seinfeld themed show today. also you did some new year's resolutions and you went right after senator rubio and cruz. you said i resolve to spend less time voting in the senate so marco rubio and ted cruz don't look so bad. then you said this about ted krauz. i resolve to give ted cruz more lead time before i announc my policy positions so you can replicate them faster. so you believe that basically he steals all your ideas? >> well, you know, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. and i think on foreign policy he started talking about regime change being a bad idea.
and i think i've been the leader on that issue and i continue to. and it's an important voice. in fact i think that was the most important thing we've had the entire presidential season is we've finally had a real debate over foreign policy, over whether regime change is a good idea. they need to have that on the democrat side, too. because it turns out that probably the most likely candidate to take us back to war is hillary clinton, because she supports regime change as a good concept. >> you know, it's interesting, senator, when i read what you say about isis, and your strategy to take on isis, and i hear president obama say what he says about isis, i don't see a of you. where am i wrong? >> actually, the difference is is that president obama and hillary clinton both supported arming the syrian rebels, the islamic rebels, against assad. i wouldn't have done that. they also supported toppling gadhafi and libya. so really the interesting thing is, is while obama gets blamed for not intervening enough, he's actually intervened quite a bit in the middle east. and i think not to our benefit.
in syria. i wouldn't have toppled gadhafi. and we continue to sell arms to saudi arabia, which continues to be sort of an arsonist in that region, fanning the flames. you know, just yesterday executing a shiite cleric which i think is going to erupt into more problems in saudi arabia. so, i think my foreign policy is quite a bit different. i also don't believe in giving foreign aid to people who are enemies, and supplying weapons to the allies of al qaeda, as obama has. >> right. >> so really i'm kind of the opposite. the interesting thing is the grahams and the mccains have been on the same side as obama, they just want more of what obama's been doing. >> let me ask you one more question about ted cruz. do you think he deserves this reputation in the senate that he's difficult to work with? >> you know, i think people have different strategies, and approaches to how they deal with people. i've had many disagreements with those in leadership but i try to keep it on a professional basis. i don't go to the floor and call people liars, because i don't
the rules of the senate say you're not supposed to attack someone's character. and i think you can call them out, and i've given ten-hour speeches, 13-hour speeches without calling anybody names but talking about the history of our country, the history of the bill of rights, the importance of the fourth amendment and privacy but i tend not to have the same strategy of attacking people personally. it hasn't done well for him in washington. it may be rousing people, but ultimately i don't think he'll -- that kind of personality would allow him to be the nominee. >> you know you started this race as one of the front-runners. a lot of people thought you were going to be one of the front-runners at this point in time. you're not there. that doesn't mean you won't be at some point. but are you frustrated with how this campaign has turned out? the focus on trump? what is it that is -- i feel the frustration in reading your tweets. you clearly are. can you put it into words? >> yeah, the interesting thing is, is that i think the polls are not scientific. a lot of people who follow polls never had any math classes. they don't understand anything about standard error, standard deviation. >> you are right about that.
they've been way wrong. i mean, look, we just had polling in the kentucky race and a week before when they're supposed to be most accurate they're off 13 points. if i do have a frustration we're being led by the nose and the news media is led by the nose to think somehow trump is going to win this because of these polls. the polls don't, i believe, capture who's going to actually vote. we have great popularity with students. i had 1,000 students at george washington a few weeks ago. 1,000 students at iowa state. and the thing is, have you ever met a college student that has answered a presidential poll? if we turn them out we're going to shock people like you've never seen. but the problem is, is that it's a self-fullfilling cycle. really in the end nobody knows and we ought to have a little bit more of an even approach to how we approach the news. >> i'm in favor of what the voters say. fair enough. senator rand paul, happy new year, sir. >> thank you. happy new year to you. >> appreciate it. up next, donald trump versus hillary clinton. he did it again this morning,
clinton accuses trump of sexism and trump hit back by going after bill. attacking bill to get to hillary has never w worked before. can trump change it? [ male announcer ] some come here to build something smarter. some come here to build something stronger. others come to build something faster... something safer... something greener. something the whole world can share. people come to boeing to do many different things.
to play it, fine." then it's fair for them to go after bill clinton and his his are i with women. zbl( she wants to accuse me of things and the husband is one of the great abusers of the world in give me a break. >> donald trump is saying nothing is off limit, including the clinton marriage. fair game. >> tomorrow, former president bill clinton will make his first solo campaign stop for the psych until new hampshire. >> i am tired of the stranglehold that women have had on the job of presidential spouse. [ cheers and applause ] >> nearly nine months after announcing her presidential bid, hillary clinton is still struggling with how to effectively use her most high-profile surrogate. president clinton has had a mixed record campaigning for others. >> i don't have to defe myself. >> in 2008, his bitter attacks on then senator obama backfired? >> give me a break.
fairy tail i've ever seen. >> in 2012, he became obama's best stand-in, embracing his role as the president's secretary of explaining stuff. >> we were losing 750,000 jobs a month. are we doing better than that today? the answer is yes. >> this year, bill clinton remains the most popular political figure in america. it's still not clear whether he's an asset or a liability for his wife's campaign. bernie sanders is campaigning against bill clinton's centrist school of democratic policy. >> i led -- helped lead the effort as a member of the house financial committee against alan greenspan, against a guy named bill clinton, maybe you know him, maybe you don't. >> hillary clinton has carefully distanced herself from her husband's legacy on free trade, financial regulation and criminal justice. but she has also embraced bill clinton's economic successes. >> i'm not running for my husband's third term and i am not running for barack obama's
i'm running for my first term. >> but trump is trying to do to hillary what no republican has successfully done -- make bill clinton's personal problem a political liability for her. trump wasn't always so critical of the former president's personal life. the clintons were guests at trump's third wedding and in the late '90s trump criticized "moralists in congress who express public outrage at the president's immoral behavior." >> he had sex but now they talk about the kind of sex, where it took place, where it was, on the desk, off the desk. i mean, it's so out of control. >> even in 2008 trump called clinton's affair totally unimportant. and he has his own complicated marital history. are your own affairs fair game? >> yes, they would be. hillary brought up sexist and i reversed it on her. she has a major problem, happens to be flight her house. >> i have the panel here.
jennifer rubin, sara fagen, former political director for george w. bush's administration and eugene robinson, also a "washington post" columnist in. welcome all. chris, what's trump up to with these clinton attacks? what's he up to? >> he's playing defense because he got caught with the charge of sexism so he's shooting back. but in 1998, the republican party in the congress impeached bill clinton. two years later hillary clinton was elected u.s. senator. there's a caw causality. the way she handled the situation, the stoll it way she handled it, going up for chuck schumer, despite all the embarrassment it made her look strong and gave her a chance to prove herself as an independent political figure. if she hadn't been elected to the united states senate, hadn't had the guts to run for it she would have a candidate in 2008. >> i think this is a shrewd move for him in the primary more importantly than the general because here's a person who seven months ago said bill
admired most of recent history. more than either president bush, he admired bill clinton. he defended him as you pointed out. he call hillary clinton a friend, called her a great senator. >> he needed a shift. you're saying he needed a shift? >> he needs to inoculate himself against coming attacks. >> i think this has everything to do with the republican primary and nothing to do with the democrats or general election. trump is the man who channels anger. he is the guy who he says speaks against political correctness. well, this is what he's doing. this is what his folks like to hair. they like to hear attacks on democrats, they like to hear irreverence and i think this is the act he's been doing all along that niece the primary. >> the other thing he's doing is establishing himself or portraying himself as the republican candidate. >> inevitability. >> and the general election, him versus hillary clinton. >> just when we're focused on the primary. >> that's good for him. >> but there's always a reason why trump goes after somebody. something sets him off. let me play for you what i think
had nothing to do with sexism. it's what hillary clinton said at a debate. >> he is becoming isis' best recruiter. they are going to people, showing videos of donald trump insulting islam and muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists. >> now listen to this. now, obviously there was no video at the time that existed. that was not true. in the last 48 hours there is a video out there. al shabab and al qaeda affiliated group in somalia, i think we'll show some form of this that basically just shows donald trump doing this. chris. >> so now he'll say she gave them the idea. >> what do you mean by that? >> the fact that she said they're using his video to recruit, well, subsequent to her it was friday -- >> that's what his logic is going to be. >> i think his reaction was "you have to say what you have to say" i mean and --
i'll show you something. here's what his supporters said in biloxi, mississippi, about the charge. >> i don't believe it at all. i don't. i don't believe it at all. screw them damn muslims. >> that's bologna. i don't believe a second of it. no. >> i think it's stupid news people. it's not happening. it's not happening. it's just making donald trump look bad. >> they don't believe the video exists. >> right. >> they don't believe the video of anything. they don't believe any bad piece of information about trump. this is the irony or the horror from the point of view of the republican establishment that he can say anything, do anything, it can be completely -- >> and it's a fascinating thing he's trying to do, though, which is stupid news people. so in every rally hi points out the press standing back there and he points and said "those people lie, those people are awful."
lives on the exposure that this gives him. >> i think you're right. when a candidate, an opponent, points out his inexperience in politics, that's when he goes ballistic and he's too bombastic and too shortsighted to understand that these comments resonate around the world. and when he gets called on it, he lashes out. >> but let me point something out to you, chris, because you'll be interviewing hillary clinton. >> tuesday. >> tuesday. he does find a way to get at the one thing that somebody doesn't want to talk about. and while it's always benefitted hillary clinton wherever there's conversation about bill clinton's past, she hates talking about it. >> well, who would? who would like talking about it? >> it's a soft spot. >> i want to talk about the clip of those three people in biloxi. there is a revolutionary spirit in this country right now. i've been reading -- i went back and saw the two versions of "tale of two cities." it's about this anger that we're going to talk about. this deep anger among the people about the establishment.
the bourbons, the bushes. wars our young men have to fight in. more and more deployments, trade deals to give away good jobs to china. immigration that gives bad jobs to immigrants and people are so angry about that, they don't want to hear details about what shabab is up to. >> you just gave me a good segue. we're going to talk a lot about making people angry in the show but i want to do a commercial break. when we come back, president obama used his weekly address to talk about guns and he's looking to close the gun show loophole without congress. then back to 2016 and what chris just told you about. why americans are so angry about politics today and who is it that's going to be able to ride that wave
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one step he plans on taking is this -- changing the definition of a gun dealer so that people who sell firearms at gun shows fit that definition and have to use the background check system when they sell. essentially this is the president's way of closing the gun show loophole without congress. in december, gun safety advocate captain mark kelly and his wife, former representative gabrielle giffords who survived a horrific shooting five years ago this week, by the way, met with president obama about some possible new gun measures. the former nasa astronaut and co-founder of americans for responsible solutions joins me now. captain kelly, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> thanks, chuck. >> so i know you know some of what he might be considering. you have made recommendations to the president. the gun show loophole appears to be the most substantive idea out there. is it feasible? >> well, we think it is so after
tried to get past a piece of legislation that would close those loopholes. it failed during a filibuster in the senate. after that, gabby and i directed our staff at americans for responsible solutions to look for other alternatives. as it would turn out, the reason why we have some of these loopholes that you can drive a truck through with 40% of gun sales not requiring a background check is because the way they define in the -- in the regulation the way they define in the business of selling firearms. >> let's say he make this is change. you can't enforce the change without resources and as you know atf is an agency starved of resources. we did a comparison when it comes to regulation with the fda, for instance, and over the last decade the fda -- over the last five years the fda has seen a near 50% increase in its resources from congress. atf not even 10%. in fact, they have fewer staff today than they did five years ago.
can't enforce these new regulations. >> well, that's true and so one of the other things we need to do is work on getting atf the money it needs to do its job. but the other side of that, chuck, is that one of the things that has frustrated the atf for all these years is the fact that they know there are individuals out there selling hundreds if not thousands of guns a year and they don't have the authority to do anything about it. and these are guns that are often sold to criminals without a back ground check and they can't do anything about it. so we need to fix that part of this as well. you're right, the funding is important. >> i know one of the things that you have said -- we've had this conversation before, you want to try to get, i guess, the east coast or urban america to understand the gun culture in rural america. how do you translate that to the president? >> well, the president and i have talked about this. when you look at places in middle america, people who make
just saw this blog entry by fareed zakaria the other day that the one area is middle aged white men where life expectancy is going down. so you have this segment of society that feels like they're losing things and they look at gun issues and their right to own a gun as one of those things they might be losing. now, the other side of this is we have horrificorhorrific levels of gun violence with 100,000 people shot every year, 30,000 dead. and there are solid things like closing these background check loopholes that will have a significant impact on the number of people that die in this nation. >> a lot of people say if you enforce the laws on the books maybe some progress is made, are you one of those that believes that? >> well, you know, it's interesting that that is used by the gun lobby and i heard it when i was testifying in front of the senate judiciary committee. and what they're getting at is charging the individual, felons who try to buy a gun and fail a a background check. what these individuals don't
enforcing is current laws is we have prevented felons and people who are domestic abusers and people who are dangerously mentally ill from buying a gun nearly two million times because they failed a background check. of course we need to enforce the laws. but at the same time, preventing those two million individuals from getting a gun has had a serious impact on gun violence. >> mark kelly, i'll leave it there. americans for sensible solutions on gun safety. we'll be, i'm sure, hearing from you later in the week when we hear there are the president. now for the other side of this conversation joining me now the lieutenant governor of texas, dan patrick. on january 1, a new law went into effect in texas making it the largest state in the union to allow people to openly carry handguns in public. governor patrick, welcome to "meet the press," sir. >> chuck, good to be with you. in terms of your previous guest, totally wrong on inner cities or the cities to the rural areas. first of all, since president obama became president we've
4.7 million to almost 13 million. a 15% increase last year. and one of the largest areas of people getting gun permits are people in urban areas who are afraid, particularly women whose gun permits have increased 270% compared to men, 156%. chuck, everyone in america knows law enforcement does a great job but they're after the fact in yourself. no one understands that better than texas. we're the 45th state that allows open carry in america. >> now, there's a lot of law enforcement struggling to figure out how you're going to decide if somebody is open carrying as a weapon and somebody sees a person carrying a weapon, they may call 911 and say "hey, there's somebody in the mall carrying a weapon." now it's legal in texas but that's going scare some people. is this not sort of a -- asking for a public -- sort of a public chaos, frankly? >> no, it's not. >> why?
in fact, law enforcement from oklahoma came and testified before our committees in the legislature and texas and said it hasn't been a problem. again, 44 states chuck have open carry. michigan has had it for 175 years. vermont always had it. we haven't seen these problems. concealed carry which we've had in texas since the mid-'90s, we've virtually had zero problems. someone with a concealed carly who can open carry in texas is 12 times less likely to commit even a misdemeanor. this is just propaganda by those who either don't like guns, who are afraid of guns, which i respect, some people don't like them. but don't stop us who love guns, who love the second amendment from being able to protect ourselves, our families, our businesses and our friends. >> you have to meet a higher threshold of a background check to get a concealed carry permit and to get this -- in essence to get an open carry permit. why shouldn't that be the standard for all gun ownership? >> you know, i'm one who believes the second amendment guarantees everyone the right to own a gun.
anything? why is there any standard on by that standard there shouldn't be a standard on open carry, right? >> chuck, because it's been an evolving process. in 203000 only 30% showed people need a gun to protect themselves, now 60% believe that. it's an evolving issue. even the supreme court evolved. in 2008 in the helder decision the supreme court said the supreme court gar reed those rights to individuals, not just militias. so only new york, illinois, california, south carolina and florida don't allow open carry. so -- >> do you think there are too many hurdles. do you think there are too many hurdles to get a concealed carry permit or an open carry permit? >> no, and i think, again, that's -- that is evolving. i passed a bill as a senator before i became lieutenant governor that changed the process of getting permit to online only, for example.
evolving and i want to see a day whenever american citizen can simply have a gun, does not have to go through a long ordeal or pay a high price, we're going to address that in texas as well because it's the right of every individual under the second amendment. texas is the largest state to have open carry. and let me also add this, chuck. everywhere that we have more citizens carrying guns, crime is less. there's a study showing that where states have open carry or concealed carry but particularly open carry the crime is down 25%. murders are down. having law-abiding citizens having guns is a good thing. in fact, chuck -- >> okay. >> -- every one of the mass shootings except two in america since 1950 have been gun-free zones and every one in europe. where people have guns, bad guys don't go and you'll never stop bad guys from getting guns with background checks at gun shows. let america have their guns. let them defend themselves and america will be a safer place. >> i have a feeling we won't resolve this political debate this morning on "meet the press." lieutenant governor dan patrick,
this morning. >> thank you. up next, we'll go back to the 2016 race and focus on this issue. we know americans are angry at our politics. it's the fining characteristic of this election season. we'll look at who's angriest and why. first, i want to make a note of a passing this week. former arkansas senator and governor dale bumpers died. he was a moderate southern democrat who many thought would be the first arkansas governor to become president. instead, he may be best known for defending his former arkansas democratic rival bill clinton at his impeachment trial in 1998. >> hl mencken said one time when you hear somebody say "this is not about money" it's about money. [ laughter ] and when you hear somebody say "this is not about sex" it's
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. welcome back. anger and frustration. argue kbli the two defining characteristics far of this presidential election. but who in america is angry and why? we've teamed up with our pals at "esquire" magazine to find out. we asked this question "compared to a year ago do you get angrier more often than you used to about current events and news?" 49% of americans say they do get angry more often. who are these angry people? who is the angriest. well, the angriest group? whites.
than african-americans and latinos. a majority, 54% of whites, said they're angrier compared to 43% of latinos and 33% of african-americans. and while there is anger on both sides of the political aisle, there's more anger among republicans, 61% of them sayer that angrier than last year compared to 42% of democrats who describe themselves that way. but here's our big myth-busting moment of our survey. it's women who are angriest. 53% of women said they're angrier today than they were a year ago compared to 44% of men. and it's white women who are most angry of all. 58% say they're angrier today than a year ago compared with 51% of white men. so we've told you who is angry. when we come back in a moment, we'll attempt to tell you why these folks are angry and who might benefit the most later in this campaign. and later, you won't want to miss president obama getting coffee with jerry seinfeld.
the world's most advanced satellite, the space station, or the next leap in unmanned systems. at boeing, one thing never changes. our passion to make it real. on average, it takes three hundred americans working for a solid year, to make as much money as one top ceo. it's called the wage gap. and the republicans will make it worse by lowering taxes for those at the top and letting corporations write their own rules. hillary clinton will work to close the wage gap. equal pay for women to raise incomes for families, a higher minimum wage, lower taxes for the middle class.
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richard dorman, senior editor of "esquire" magazine and my partner in this poll is here to talk about the survey we just told you about. >> great to be here. >> it will hit newsstands on tuesday. the cover is donald trump, as you just said, as you call time avatar of anger. let's get into the why. i want to put up one other poll question about the american dream. is it alive for you? is the american dream still alive and well? a majority said it's once true but not anymore. but what was fascinating here is that when you broke it down by
when you look at the ethnicities, whites are the angriest of all americans with white women in particular. but when you ask them why, the majority of white men and women get angry when they say the american dream is not what it used to be. that america's leadership role in the world isn't what it used to be and life didn't turn out for them. this is the anger of perceived diminishment and it's why a slogan like "make america great" resonates so strongly with white middle-class voters. >> chris, you were tapping, i said you were providing a great segue and you said "that's it. >> there's a deep sense of betray betrayal. economic nationalism. jobs are going to china, our sons and daughters are being reupped in the military for more deployments in w this back door draft so the working guy and woman says we're getting screwed and nobody is respecting our american citizenship. >> i think there's also an atmospheric element to that. it's -- the fact that it's
the country is getting less white, there won't be a white majority in a few years and also, you know, you get online and you're on voice mail and you have to press one to continue in english or two to -- i think that sort of thing -- >> the atm -- >> exactly. >> i was really surprised by the findings that it was women that were more angry than men. >> so were we. >> well, it's conventional wisdom of the angry white male. but if you think about middle aged women taking care of kids, taking care of parents, having made no more money, really, in 25 years, and at least they had being an american and now there's a question about that. >> richard, jump in here. >> i think the most important thing when it comes to women is that yes they share the same frustrations as men as far as the direction of their lives. but unlike men, they're much more empathetic to others. so they look at the news feeds and headlines and when they see
that i see discrimination against lgbt they take that personally so that tips them over. >> it's an expanded portfolio of anger. >> i don't think we can disregard what chris said, which is about the nationalism. there's a reason why people feel like america is not great and that's that we've had a disastrous foreign policy for at least seven years, if you want to go back farther than that -- >> people are going to argue 15. >> yeah, let's go back further than that. >> so when we have a president that seems to be almost indifferent to attacks on american soil, when he seems to be ridiculing the american people for being concerned and says it's cable tv, people do get angry about that and i think you can't -- and he doesn't -- the lack of national leadership. on the other side, i don't think you can ignore the culture of the right which has become perpetually angry which is the talk show television sort of culture. >> some of this is partisan driven but i think jennifer is right. you have a president who hasn't been strong in attacking jihadism and that's --
are angry when a republican is in the white house and republicans are angry when a democrat is in the white house. >> sure. that's true. >> there's not reason to be angry at george w. bush when he was in the white house? exactly. >> yeah, i was just going to say. >> rather than anger being in discrete pockets across the political and ideological spectrum, we're seeing it everywhere. donald trump and bernie sanders. we're seeing in the black lives matter and the immigration movement. it's wherever right now. >> in addition to our politics, we've had a complete breakdown of confidence in institutions in this country. >> that adds to it. >> not just political institutions. the courts, religion, the news media, everything. >> richard, i want to give you the last word? cultural? economic? both. >> everything. but i wouldn't discount cultural issues because when you look at black americans today. even though they might have a more legitimate case to be angry they are less angry than whites. >> i'll leave it there. richard, this is our second project, hopefully we can have
it's in your hands. the more you know. . welcome back. there's one thing donald trump has said that can't be denied -- attack him at your own peril. you have political bodies to prove it. watch this. >> donald trump's candidacy is a cancer on conservatism and it must be clearly diagnosed, excised, and discarded. again. but we will not do that by putting an unserious and unstable narcissist in the white house. >> donald trump has done the one single thing you cannot do -- declare war on islam itself. >> donald trump is the know-nothing candidate of the 21st century and cannot be our nominee.
so those are all 1%ers looking for a way in. but, gene, i think there's a reason why john kasich, for instance, was so hesitant to attack trump and rand paul hesitant hesitant, would rather attack cruz and rubio. >> they've been through that and people are hesitant to attack him because of the way he comes back and he has great instincts for winding the weak point and going after it and working it and working it. >> he's the kid in school that gives you the nickname. he knows your nickname. >> old squeaky shoes. >> in fairness, there are people still in the race, of course, who are attacking trump including kasich -- >> not successfully. 6%. 5%. >> we also have rubio at times going against him. the reason that bobby jindal failed was not because he attacked trump, it was because he was an awful candidate. >> but as this field continues to narrow and it's donald trump versus one or two other candidates, that's when this race will really come into focus and -- >> all right. [ laughter ]
well. >> i've heard this before. >> but the challenge right now for the mainstream republicans is there are too many candidates and we need to have one candidate. >> okay, it's interesting you say that. new hampshire, i cannot figure out. everybody says they're all in new hampshire, christie, rubio, bush. >> very good reason. very good reason for. >> that i get it. i know it's a good electorate. >> five points between five people behind trump. >> ted cruz is going to finish second or first new hampshire, people will go "how the heck did that happen"? >> maybe not. it's very close. christie is sending a huge amount of time on the ground, he's making a big deal cruz is not. your own videos showed he's spending 48 days in -- >> cruz hasn't been in new hampshire since november. >> correct. >> look, in a normal year when people finish third in primaries we don't think they're doing so hot. i think that's different this year and we're talking about people who will be lucky to finish third in iowa or new hampshire.
cycle. here's the situation. you have donald trump at roughly 30% in new hampshire and then five candidates behind him all bunched up together. five points separating them. after iowa, this thing is going to jumble again. >> it's possible no establishment candidate wins any primary or caucus. >> that's what i think. >> once you have the taint of the establishment, you're dead meat. >> this is a headline. "marco rubio doesn't add up." he is supposed to be the savior of the establishment and yet he doesn't spend enough -- we don't know his money. you know why? because he doesn't have money totals better than ted cruz. >> well, maybe he wants to save them for after the holidays when people are paying attention to the news. so we'll see this week or the next. i think the issue with marco rubio is that he's a little too polished, a little too glib, a little too effortless for his own good. >> and the wrong year to be that. >> correct. people want this intense emotional connection. chris christie has figured that out.
hampshire. >> christie to me is one that i would watch. he has donald trump-esque style but a record of governing in a difficult time. >> let's see how he goes about it. >> it's a fair point. >> let's close with fun before we go. i've been teasing this seinfeld thing for a week, i better get there. we've had a so about a lot of things, not nothing. if you missed this, take a look. this was president obama doing comedians in cars getting coffee with jerry seinfeld. it's a big hit on digital. >> if you're one of those guys even though you seem very relaxed, you've got to go off at some point with food. what's your thing with a tray of cookies. >> nachos. >> nachos? >> that's one of those where i have to have it taken away. it's the guam moly coming out of my eyeballs. >> there's a longer one. you have to look at it about why he thinks politics is like football and he talks about because you know what?
that's all we have for today. somewhat a 2016 start. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press." america is not just electing a president, we're also electing a commander in chief. that choice matters. because strengthening the economy, making healthcare more affordable, raising incomes. all of that depends on us being both secure at home and leading the world. i will get up every single day and do whatever it takes
to make sure our country is safe and strong.