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tv   Meet the Press  NBC  January 4, 2016 1:35am-2:35am CST

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i just got home and i asked lisa if she'd been over. and i said, no, haven't seen her. >> and i had looked outside and sure enough the car was still there. so we went out to the car and she wasn't there. >> so jed and lisa grabbed flashlights and walked a couple of blocks from their house down to the river levee. there in the parking lot sat a pendleton policeman. what should they do they asked him. >> he just thought it was unusual enough that he got ahold of dan. >> as the officer left to talk to dan, jed and lisa kept looking through the dark along the riverbank. >> there's a fear of not finding anything. and there's a fear of finding something. >> when i got to where the policeman was, we were talking, and he said, you seem to be awfully calm for your wife being missing. and at that point i thought, holy mackerel, you know, if there's something -- if there's something bad that
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happened to her, i could be a suspect. >> from his patrol car the officer was able to pull up images from cameras stationed around the river levee. no sign of karen. then her cell provider sent a ping to karen's phone. it turned up across the main road about half a mile from the river. in the parking lot at walmart. where again, the officer could not find karen. what was going on? around and around the river walk they went pointing their puny flashlights at a sea of dark. >> i did go home at about 5:00. i wrote an e-mail saying karen's gone. i don't know where she is. i just have to go to bed. and i went and i just cried. >> he did not sleep long. the phone call that startled him
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some good, some very, very bad. coming up -- amyjane's murder and karen's disappearance. could they be connected? investigators are about to discover a disturbing clue. >> i think in that moment most of us knew that that wasn't coincidence. (cell phone rings) where are you? well the squirrels are back in the attic. mom? your dad won't call an exterminator... can i call you back, mom? he says it's personal this time... if you're a mom, you call at the worst time. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. where are you? it's very loud there. are you taking a zumba class? olay regenerist renews from within, plumping surface cells for a dramatic transformation without the need for fillers with olay, you age less
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dawn took its own time on the morning of august 10th, 2013. by that time going on 6:00 a.m. karen lang had been missing more than 12 hours. then finally the morning sun lit up the banks of the umatilla river. >> then the policeman called, we found your wife. >> she was found and alive but what the policeman said next was terrifying.
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your wife and she's alive, that was a great relief. but he certainly made it sound like it was a tough thing. >> oh, it was. karen had been struck from behind by some heavy blunt object. her skull was crushed. the wound was massive. right away the detective called the chief on vacation in the mountains five hours away and described the way they found her. did he think she was dead already? >> he thought she was dead. tremendous amount of blood. he indicates that he reaches for her wrist to see if she has a pulse and her leg moves. and she gasps. >> but it didn't look like she'd be alive for long. the detective drove dave lang to the hospital, told him prepare for the worst. as he arrived at the emergency room, dan ran into a nurse he
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>> and she took one look at me, and it was so heartbroken that i, of course, broke down. and then i had a chance to see karen. >> the doctors gave her a slim chance, 1 in 100, maybe. she was airlifted to a bigger hospital in portland for specialized care. as dan kept watch at her bedside, he remembered an odd comment karen made a few days before she was attacked. her boys were in college, nearly grown. she wasn't sure what her purpose was any more. as she told dan -- >> i really wish that i could be, you know, more useful, if i'm going to remain here. >> on planet earth. >> on planet earth. i would assure her that god has a plan. and you will be used. >> but what kind of use was this? if she lived, she might never regain consciousness. if she regained consciousness, she might never be the same. how useful could that be?
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and then suddenly, the case in the murder of amy brandhagen and the attack on karen lang seemed to take on a new and terrifying meaning. chief roberts returned from his vacation to be handed this photograph by investigators. it had been taken four years earlier. >> one of the detectives had gotten his hands on an image of amyjane brandhagen and karen lang together dated august 14th. >> oh, my god. >> amyjane brandhagen was murdered on august 14th. karen lang was assaulted on august the 9th one year after amyjane's murder. >> you think somebody's targeting them or someone within the church has some strange motivation? >> it could be a member of the congregation or it could be somebody who they provided outreach services to. >> in pendleton at the free methodist church, the word spread quickly. >> i think in that moment most of us knew that that wasn't coincidence. and i can't tell you how we knew. >> well, small town, same
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church. >> small town, same church. we all knew each other. i think we just knew. >> in a town where murder is rare, two women, one photo, and dates that lined up like a message. had to be a connection. >> certainly crossed my mind. crossed my mind. >> so they scoured hours of video recorded by dozens of cameras stationed around town looking for a suspect. good luck. when amyjane was murdered in broad daylight, those videos turned up exactly nothing. but then, then luck turned. they saw this. recorded by one of the cameras stationed around the river walk, 6:31 p.m. karen lang, there she is right there, out for her walk. and following her, a man watching her with what looks like a pipe hidden behind his back right there. >> they cross a small foot bridge.
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maybe 50 or 60 yards where there's just no visibility from any direction unless you're actually on the path. and right there is where he attacks her. >> is that where she was found? >> she was found about 30 feet down the path. >> and then they found this video recorded by another camera about an hour after the attack. same man enters a park bathroom. and minutes later emerges to use a drinking fountain. >> i immediately said it's the same guy. we've got to show it's the same guy. >> wait, same guy as who? chief roberts remembered after amyjane was murdered the only witness who saw anything reported a young man with dark hair wandering near the motel. >> basically the description was fairly generic. male, 20-something, dark hair, a little bit longer, with dark toned skin. now we have this second crime a year later, almost to the anniversary, and here's a male profile or image on our network
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it fits. >> but who was he? and why was he targeting women from the same church?kind of pendleton roundup was underway. the order was clear -- find him. fast. coming up -- the evidence that was about to send this case into overdrive. >> it gave me chills. phil! oh no... (under his breath) hey man! hey peter. (unenthusiastic) oh... ha ha ha! joanne? is that you? it's me... you don't look a day over 70. am i right? jingle jingle. if you're peter pan, you stay young forever. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. you make me feel so young... it's what you do. you make me feel so spring has sprung. i've smoked a lot and quit a lot,
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(cell phone rings) where are you? well the squirrels are back in the attic. mom? your dad won't call an exterminator... can i call you back, mom? he says it's personal this time... if you're a mom, you call at the worst time. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. where are you? it's very loud there.
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when the free methodists of pendleton, oregon, went to their weekly worship services that sunday in august, 2013, they offered their prayers for karen lang lying in a portland hospital in a coma. her husband dan a constant presence at her bedside. the prognose was poor, but dan, optimistic by nature, struggled to hang on. >> it's just a faithful attitude that says no matter what happens it's god's plan. and his plan is to prosper us. even if i were to lose karen, i had to hold on to that and realize that. >> in those firss found in the brush alongside the pendleton river walk, shock spread like bad electricity.
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>> someone came up to our senior pastor and said, you know, i think i'm glad i'm not part of your church if all these things that have happened. >> yeah. >> you're thinking is there a serial killer around? >> not fear exactly, not yet. but someone was out there, was among them, had killed once perhaps twice. and so the unease grew. dark places were avoided. >> the odds of a stranger picking two people that were as connected difficult to wrap your mind around. >> umatilla county district attorney dan primis. this sounds more like a zodiac-type killer. like one of those weird puzzles. >> absolutely. as you're working these investigations, you're thinking all those things. trying to determine what connection is there between karen lang and amyjane brandhagen. >> it seemed very likely to the police and the d.a. the man seen in the surveillance video was the one who attacked karen lang,
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the killer who stabbed amyjane to death in that motel room one year earlier. but who was it? the chief asked his street cops to look at that video. anybody recognize him? and what do you know? one of them did. >> he looked at the image for a second and said that's danny wu. >> how did he know? because he'd encountered him four times in the previous year. minor infractions, though. so they never confirmed that his name actually was danny wu. but there was one thing that might help i.d. him. >> he had a very distinct tattoo on the inside of his left wrist which read, semper fi. >> he's a marine. >> that was my initial reaction. >> while chief roberts didn't know who the man really was or where he was now or why he
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knew they had to track him down right away. >> this is a community on edge. >> and now he's out there. >> he's out there. and we've got to find him. there could be more victims. >> the chief canceled all time off, called in every available officer. a manhunt was on. and then a bit of luck. the very same sharp-eyed detective who found karen noticed something odd nearby. a wooden panel on the back of an old batting cage beside the river walk looked not quite right. so the officer reached behind the loose panel and found a pipe that appeared to have blood on one end. the dna confirmed it was karen's blood. and then when the crime lab compared a dna sample from the other end of the pipe with the material found under amyjane's fingernails? >> i get that call on a sunday afternoon. now we've connected the dots. >> the man who assaulted karen and amyjane brandhagen's killer were one in the same.
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right away the police chief shared the news with the d.a. >> i was at home. chieasked me if i was sitting down. he told me that the dna from the pipe matched the dna found underneath amyjane's fingernails. and it gave me chills. >> but though chief roberts' officers scoured the town, even distributed flyers with wu's picture on them, they found nothing. hours piled up, days, more than a week. no danny wu. but anxiety? oh, yes. >> you didn't leave garages unlocked. >> no. >> sheds, doors, windows, cars. >> yeah. you do. you feel like there's a serial killer in town. >> and then a call from the local convention center. two catering company employees told the dispatcher they'd gone in through a side door to the kitchen. >> and here sits this person who they readily recognize as this danny wu that we had disseminated the images of and
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and he basically picked up his stuff and disappeared into the facility. >> so he's in the building somewhere. it's a big building. >> it's a big building. >> within minutes the police surrounded the convention center. a search dog trained to bite joined in. they set up a command post outside one of the center's windows. >> the dogs just woof, woof, woofing at the door. and the oregon state trooper behind us says i can see a leg hanging out of the ceiling. >> looking through a window. >> i take about two steps back from where i'm standing and i can see it. so i give him the command to enter. they enter, go straight to this location in the stairwell and there he is. >> minutes later the suspect, the man known as danny wu, the man who may have murdered one woman, possibly even two and terrorized the town of pendleton walked out in handcuffs and into the flashing cameras of the local paper. later, officers took this video of his hiding spot in an air-conditioning duct in the convention center ceiling where
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clothes. >> it looked like a nest. and looked like he'd been there for a while coming and going, hiding in plain sight. he'd been here all year. >> but now what? would he talk? lawyer up? or even would he reveal who he really was? and why it appeared he was targeting the women of the free methodist church. coming up -- inside a heart of darkness. >> i didn't understand that. i've never heard that before. >> revelations that would leave this town and its investigators shattered. >> i didn't know whether to cry,
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here he was, t here he was, the man they knew as danny wu, the man detective sergeant rick jackson had been chasing for a year. >> i'm sergeant rick jackson. i work here at the pendleton police department. i know i'm not dressed like a normal police officer. >> jackson was out hunting elk when they caught danny wu. and rushed in still in his camo
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hoping finally to get answers to his year of questions. >> are you willing to talk to me? >> to a certain point. >> the chief and the d.a. watched from a nearby office. >> i didn't expect him to say anything. i expected him to ask for a lawyer. i wasn't sure how he was going to respond to any of the questions. >> but d.a. primis and all of them were in for a big surprise. >> what's your name? >> my name is lukah chang. >> i want to write it down. what's your last name? >> sure enough not danny wu. lukah chang, 23 years old, the son of christian missionaries. a deserter from the u.s. marines who drifted into town without any plan and stayed in that downtown motel where he encountered a maid named amy jane. >> did you talk to her? >> no. only in passing like she would knock on the door. >> soon he was broke, living on the street, spending his days at the town library across the
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>> you walked by and saw -- >> saw working. i saw her working and just. >> how long did you have to wait? >> probably a half hour. >> you're weighting there a half hour, you're thinking to yourself what? >> i'm going to do it. >> grabbed her, brought her into the motel room or into the bathroom and then what happened? >> i stabbed her. >> with what? >> a knife. >> when detective jackson tried to get into this young man's head, the conversation veered off into a cold and disturbing place. chang rebelling against his parents, against god? detective jackson asked the question on just about every mind in pendleton, oregon. >> why? >> to see how it felt. >> see how what felt? >> taking a life. >> why? >> i was curious. >> how did it feel?
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saddening. >> empowering and saddening? >> yes. >> at the same time? >> yes. empowering because i took a life. saddening because i realized i've seen life is precious. >> that was it? to see how it felt? >> i didn't understand that. i've never heard that from a killer before. >> but why the second attack? did he target those two women because they taught bible school together? because they appeared in that photograph together? >> not really. it was approaching the anniversary of the first time. >> and that was just about it, said lukah chang. >> she was walking by, i noticed, followed, attacked. >> he was a brick wall. if the real answer was buried in his religious past or his failed military career or some other secret corner, we were not to know. ever. >> do you feel remorse? >> not really. >> why is that? >> i got tired of feeling.
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emotions and stuff like that. i got tired of feeling the feelings. so i'm like all right. let's just cut that out. >> then having had his say, the man the police had been chasing for so long was safely tucked away in a jail cell soon to plead guilty to murder and attempted murder. and to begin serving 35 to life. >> i can't even describe the relief. it's like the world is lifted off your shoulders. >> i didn't know whether to cry, didn't know whether to scream. you know, i just didn't -- i was just kind of dumbfounded. >> across the state in portland dan lang told his comatose wife karen they caught him. ough, of course, she couldn't hear that. and then in a few days later dan turned on his video camera. and, well, see for yourself. >> karen, can you raise your hand again? yeah, can you raise that hand up? there you go. yeah. very good.
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doctors, life flooded back. >> i'm doing very well. i feel great. >> and just a year after that vicious attack, here she was, karen lang, the woman whose ordeal wound up catching a killer. not exactly the purpose she expected when she talked to her husband dan that day. >> like i told him not that long ago i said don't ever pray for more to do with your life because, boy, do you get answered on that. >> the recovery took a long time of course. three hospitals, surgeries to rebuild her skull, months in a but of that awful night, she had no memory at all. what was the sense you recalalat least of coming out of this blackness into -- back up into life again? >> well, a lot of it was just a feeling that i didn't know what was wrong. i didn't know why i was in a hospital.
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i didn't know i was in portland. >> the langs' troubles are not over. a few months after dan brought karen home from portland, he was diagnosed with cancer. so a skeptic's question. you know, you two have been through so much in the last year that, i mean -- has this not damaged your faith? you're not angry at god for picking on you? >> no. >> i mean, if there's a plan for you, it's your plan to be so brutalized by an attack and by cancer? >> well, the beauty is that we also see the blessings, see how it's had such a positive effect on people and how it could be so much worse for me. i see it as we need to go through it. it will be a season of recovery for us. >> and then september 2014 it was pendleton roundup time again. and the emcee's voice boomed
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through the arena. miracles happen, said the announcer. >> no one in pendleton knows that better than our singer today. for our national anthem please welcome miss karen lang. o say can you see by the dawn's early light >> i looked at it as an opportunity to really just thank the people of pendleton for all the support and things that they did for me and for my family. home of the brave >> in pendleton the world was back on its axis. though perhaps a smaller and sadder place without the girl who always reached out to the lonely, to the strangers just like the one who drifted into
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town and killed her. pretty remarkable, huh? i mean, isn't he exactly the sort of person she would have sought out? >> i find that very ironic. and it's also the same person that if she were here today she would say take the way of forgiveness, it's the better way. >> let's pray. >> and every sunday the faithful still fill the pews at the pendleton free methodist church. to dance lives on, at least in memory. >> amy's life was great. and i think the people who knew her would want to live better lives because of knowing her and knowing who she was. >> that's all for now. i'm lestererolt. thanks for joining us. this sunday, the one-month
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sprint to iowa and new hampshire begins. >> we are all in in iowa. we are all in in new hampshire. >> while donald trump takes aim at hillary clinton, by attacking bill clinton's sexual peck dillos. >> that certainly will be fair game. certainly if they play the woman's card with respect to me that will be fair game. >> it may be fair game. but it's never worked before against hillary. will it now? also, the battle to the republican establishment's anti-trump or anti-cruz. john kasich and rand paul join me live. plus anger in america. some surprising results from our new esquire survey. and guess what? white men, they're not the angriest. and jerry seinfeld, in a car, getting coffee, with the president of the united states. >> do you ever think about every person you talk to is putting on an act, a total show? >> it's a problem. >> and joining me for insight and analysis this sunday morning
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chris matthews. "the washington post's" columnist jennifer reuben. white house political director under george w. bush and a cnbc and "the washington post" columnist eugene robinson. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. happy new year, 2016 is finally here. we can really focus now on the presidential race. i'm teasing of course. but it does mean one thing, the sprint to the opening presidential contest in iowa and new hampshire begins. and we hope to learn the answers to at least these three questions. will trump voters show up? who's going to be the anti-trump and anti-cruz establishment candidate? and can democrats truly get excited about hillary clinton? just look at how packed this schedule is over the next seven days in iowa. the presidential candidates will hold a total of 44 events. that's just in the next week. by the way, 28 of those events are by ted cruz alone. an acknowledgment that iowa is
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must-win for the texas senator. in new hampshire the story is similar. 58 events scheduled in the next week. an acknowledgment, actually, that more candidates knew new hampshire as do or die than iowa now. and as for the polling, it's catnip, but be cautious. in our most recent nbc news/"wall street journal" poll taken just eight weeks before iowa, donald trump led the republican pack with 27% closely followed by a surging ted cruz at 22. democratic side, hillary clinton, well ahead of bernie sanders. but beware. just look at where we were eight years ago at this same stage of the race. eight weeks out, rudy giuliani was way out in front. remember how his presidency turned out? he was doubling the showing of the eventual nominee john mccain. and hillary clinton, she had an even bigger lead over that illinois senator named barack obama. bigger one than she has over sanders today. in a moment we're going to look at the developing fight between the two leading candidates, donald trump and hillary clinton over bill clinton's sexual past. and we're going to talk to two of the republican candidates who will be making their do or die
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stand in new hampshire. but first, let's go to the centers of the political universe for the next 37 days, new hampshire and iowa. and kristen welker and hallie jackson are standing by. let me start with hallee in iowa. we know that it's cruz or bust when it comes to iowa. but who else is in the game there? trump? rubio? what else is going on? >> well, look at who's here this week, chuck. you've got ted cruz doing his 28 county six-day bus tour. he's coming out hard, trying to show his campaign is framing it that he's not taking any votes here in iowa for granted. mike huckabee is doing 150 stops here over the next month. he's got four in the can already. so he is a presence. both of these candidates doing traditional, on the ground retail politics in iowa. donald trump taking that more nontraditional stance. he will be here on saturday. for cruz, you talked about him, the big question is are expectations potentially for him too high here? yes, he's got the money. he's got the organization to go long-term the way that other iowa winners in the past have
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not had. but if he doesn't come in a strong first here, it will be a blow to his campaign. >> there's no doubt but third place, assuming that if cruz and trump, third place becomes an interesting battle. is it marco rubio's to lose? >> potentially, especially if you look at where the polling is now, chuck. and for rubio's campaign, they need at least, at the very minimum, a strong third place finish here in iowa. they can afford to do that if the first two finishers are donald trump and ted cruz. but at no point in this race, especially in iowa, new hampshire, can marco rubio come in behind jeb bush, chris christie, or john kasich. he has got to pull out ahead of those establishment candidates. so, if you buy into that where is marco rubio going to spend more of his time? he's got to maintain where he is right now in iowa and he's got to build where he is in new hampshire to try to break away from that establishment pack. >> hallie jackson in iowa. now let's shift over, kristen welker is standing by in gorgeous manchester, new hampshire. and kristen, let's start a little bit with the democrats
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before we get into the do or die sense. look, new hampshire. very good to the clintons over the years and yet she might be an underdog there. but her big bat s&l to make sure she wins iowa, and doesn't give sanders any ground. >> absolutely. and it's a real jump-ball here right now in new hampshire, chuck. the stakes really couldn't be higher because if secretary clinton wins here in new hampshire it would allow her to lock up the nomination early. but this is a must-win state for bernie sanders. and right now, as you point out, a number of polls show that he has the lead here. he's from neighboring vermont. his message about economic equality taking on the big banks and wall street have really resonated with the progressive voters here. he has 18 field offices, and overall, in the last quarter, he raised $33 million just 4 million shy of secretary clinton. so he's in a strong spot. but secretary clinton trying to match that, she's added some events here in new hampshire today. she's deploying her not so secret weapon, former president bill clinton, tomorrow, of
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they have a relationship with new hampshire, as well. this is the spot where bill clinton proclaimed that he was the comeback kid. it is the state that revived secretary clinton's chances for winning the nomination in 2008. the question is, will they be able to revive that excitement this election cycle? >> well, it's going to be something to watch. bill clinton, making his campaign '16 debut. kristen welker in new hampshire. hallie jackson in iowa. let the games begin. well it's no secret that the republican establishment takes a dim view of both donald trump and texas senator ted cruz. and they've been looking hard for an alternative. but who? jeb bush? marco rubio, chris christie? those three have yet to break through. the crowded gop field makes it that much tougher for any one of these so-called establishment guys to dominate. new hampshire is do or die for two candidates hoping to emerge as an alternative to trump and cruz. governor john kasich of ohio and senator rand paul of kentucky and both are joining me this morning. let me start in ohio with governor kasich. governor, good morning to you.
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>> so, new hampshire, do or die for you, are we saying this correctly? and what does do or die mean? win or just be the first guy after trump and cruz? >> well, we want to be the story, chuck. and let me just tell you that we're on the ballot now in over 30 states. we also have our resources well enough where we're actually going to be placing a television ad up this week. it shows that, you know, people just counting me out. they have all of my career. we just keep plugging along. so i want to be a story. and if i'm a story i believe i'll win the nomination if i come out of new hampshire if a strong position. >> the assumption is that you're fighting with three other candidates in new hampshire sort of for the same type of new hampshire voters. and that's marco rubio, chris christie, jeb bush and yourself. let's start with the fellow -- the governor who is surging right now, which arguably is chris christie. why is he surging right now, and why are you struggling to keep up with him? >> well, look, the latest poll we had right before christmas put me one point out of second place. so, chuck, i mean you have all
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kinds of polls that the last one that came out, the independent poll, put me one point behind rubio, and just seven or eight points behind trump. so we believe we are surging. and we do have a great team. and you're going to see it because of what we have on the ground with great enthusiasm. >> it doesn't say -- >> why sit the fact that you've -- voters in ohio give you high marks. voters, for instance, in new jersey, give governor christie low marks. in new hampshire that hasn't mattered. why? >> i don't know. you know, here in ohio we have a balanced budget. they don't in over in new jersey. our credit has been strengthened. their credit has been downgraded. we've got more jobs, and then beyond all of that, always the hit is he has a republican legislature. but i was chairman of the budget committee when we balanced the budget, and bill clinton was president. so, i can't explain it to you other than in ohio there's great optimism about the future here both economically and also the sense that everybody has a voice here in the state. why it's happening in new jersey, i don't know.
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records, you know, frankly ohio's doing one of the fastest growing and strongest states in the country with even rock solid pensions, which most states don't have. and so i guess that's it. >> let me ask you this, a republican strategist said this about your candidacy. i thought it was interesting. he's been trying to be aggressively bipartisan and that's kind of not where the republican electorate is. he's trying to be aggressively responsibility and that doesn't seem to be resonating that much in the polls. is that what you're finding out? >> well, again, chuck, i have to tell you, we are like one point out of second place. so it is resonating. and secondly, the -- you know, the thing that's happening is the voters think the whole system is gamed. okay? and they think that the rich people, the special interests, get all the voice and they have none. and i am the voice of people who have never been listened to really very much throughout my entire career. both in the congress, and as governor of ohio. and that's the message that i have in new hampshire, and people who are worried about
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their jobs, or their children getting the job, i'm the one that stands up and speaks for them, including those folks who live in the shadows. so, we feel very good about where we are in new hampshire. and you know, i won't be the comeback kid i'll just be the story coming out of that state. that's what we all believe and we're hoping for. >> you've been one of these candidates that says you're going to support whoever the republican nominee is. but you had an ad that essentially created an illusion to donald trump and fascism and the nazis. given that you ran an ad like that, how can you feel comfortable supporting donald trump as a republican nominee? >> well, first of all, that's not what that was about. it was a p.o.w. who served in vietnam and hanoi hilton, was tortured for five years and said the country needs to be brought together. the country shouldn't be divided. and i've been arguing all along that we have to have real solutions to real problems. and people who divide, or for that matter, people who have no experience, chuck let me tell you this, republicans have run around for seven years saying
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a one-term united states senator who has no experience to be president. i just sometimes wonder whether the party's got amnesia. >> but you didn't answer the question on trump. why are you comfortable with him -- >> because we got a long way to go to the nomination. nominee. and secondly, i'd like to see his positions become more positive. because i'll tell you this, if divider, can't win. and what i want to do is beat hillary clinton. we need somebody that's going to lift people and unite people. >> before i let you go, i'm going to ask you about the tamir rice decision. grand jury decided not to indict the police officers involved in that shooting. you said protesters need to be heard. so let me ask you, what did you hear? >> well, they're very frustrated. that's why we created a police and community collaborative. you notice that we had no violence in cleveland with the second controversial decision. the credit goes to the community leaders. also to the mayor. and the fact is the people in cleveland are saying, well, this is frustrating, you know, we
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in addition our chief justice, maureen o'connor is beginning to look at the whole grand jury process. we've been ahead of the curve on this. let's just hope that the situation can continue and it can be peaceful, even though people still are disgruntled and want to protest. >> i was just going to say. you called it a controversial decision. it sounds like you don't agree with the grand jury's decision. >> i don't comment on grand jury decisions. that's for the people of cleveland to decide. people are on both sides of the issue. they feel very strongly the loss of i 12-year-old life and of course it's going to be controversial, chuck. >> all right, governor john kasich. >> happy new year. >> happy new year to you, sir. thanks for being on. let me turn to now a little bit south of ohio into kentucky, republican senator rand paul. senator paul, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> thanks for having me. >> i looked at your campaign schedule. the last public event you had was on december 16th. that was in nevada after the last debate. you haven't been to iowa since i believe the 12th, new hampshire before that. i have to ask, senator, what's going on? two weeks off the campaign
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trail. are you still fully running? >> you know, i also believe in being with my family. i also had to hone up my surgical skills. i've been doing some pro bono surgery. also had a few fund-raising trips around the country in between then. but i think we've been to iowa and new hampshire as much or more than any other candidate. i'll be in new hampshire actually new hampshire this evening and then i'll be in new york and then i'll be in iowa for the rest of the week. so, we also do a job. i mean, i have a job as senator. i'm one of the few of the candidates that actually shows up to vote, both cruz and rubio are missing the vast majority of their votes. i feel i have an obligation to the taxpayer that pays my salary. >> i was just going to say you've taken to twitter quite a bit in that time. first it was to celebrate festivus. we have a big seinfeld themed show today. also you did some new year's resolutions and you went right after senator rubio and cruz. you said i resolve to spend less time voting in the senate so marco rubio and ted cruz don't look so bad. then you said this about ted
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krauz. i resolve to give ted cruz more lead time before i announce my policy positions so you can replicate them faster. so you believe that basically he steals all your ideas? >> well, you know, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. and i think on foreign policy he started talking about regime change being a bad idea. toppling secular dictators being a bad idea. and i think i've been the leader on that issue and i continue to. and it's an important voice. in fact i think that was the most important thing we've had the entire presidential season is we've finally had a real debate over foreign policy, over whether regime change is a good idea. they need to have that on the democrat side, too. because it turns out that probably the most likely candidate to take us back to war is hillary clinton, because she supports regime change as a good concept. >> you know, it's interesting, senator, when i read what you say about isis, and your strategy to take on isis, and i hear president obama say what he says about isis, i don't see a lot of daylight between the two of you. where am i wrong?
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>> actually, the difference is is that president obama and hillary clinton both supported arming the syrian rebels, the islamic rebels, against assad. i wouldn't have done that. they also supported toppling gadhafi and libya. so really the interesting thing is, is while obama gets blamed for not intervening enough, he's actually intervened quite a bit in the middle east. and i think not to our benefit. and so i wouldn't arm the rebels in syria. i wouldn't have toppled gadhafi. and we continue to sell arms to saudi arabia, which continues to be sort of an arsonist in that region, fanning the flames. you know, just yesterday executing a shiite cleric which i think is going to erupt into more problems in saudi arabia. so, i think my foreign policy is quite a bit different. i also don't believe in giving foreign aid to people who are enemies, and supplying weapons to the allies of al qaeda, as obama has. >> right. >> so really i'm kind of the opposite. the interesting thing is the grahams and the mccains have been on the same side as obama, they just want more of what
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obama's been doing. >> let me ask you one more question about ted cruz. do you think he deserves this reputation in the senate that he's difficult to work with? >> you know, i think people have different strategies, and approaches to how they deal with people. i've had many disagreements with those in leadership but i try to keep it on a professional basis. i don't go to the floor and call people liars, because i don't think that, one, that meets the rules of the senate. the rules of the senate say you're not supposed to attack someone's character. and i think you can call them out, and i've given ten-hour speeches, 13-hour speeches without calling anybody names but talking about the history of our country, the history of the bill of rights, the importance of the fourth amendment and privacy but i tend not to have the same strategy of attacking people personally. it hasn't done well for him in washington. it may be rousing people, but ultimately i don't think he'll -- that kind of personality would allow him to be the nominee. >> you know you started this race as one of the front-runners. a lot of people thought you were going to be one of the front-runners at this point in time. you're not there. that doesn't mean you won't be at some point.
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but are you frustrated with how this campaign has turned out? the focus on trump? what is it that is -- i feel the frustration in reading your tweets. you clearly are. can you put it into words? >> yeah, the interesting thing is, is that i think the polls are not scientific. a lot of people who follow polls never had any math classes. they don't understand anything about standard error, standard deviation. >> you are right about that. >> and the problem is, is that they've been way wrong. i mean, look, we just had polling in the kentucky race and a week before when they're supposed to be most accurate they're off 13 points. if i do have a frustration we're being led by the nose and the news media is led by the nose to think somehow trump is going to win this because of these polls. the polls don't, i believe, capture who's going to actually vote. we have great popularity with students. i had 1,000 students at george washington a few weeks ago. 1,000 students at iowa state. and the thing is, have you ever met a college student that has answered a presidential poll? if we turn them out we're going to shock people like you've never seen.
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but the problem is, is that it's a self-fullfilling cycle. really in the end nobody knows and we ought to have a little bit more of an even approach to how we approach the news. >> i'm in favor of what the voters say. fair enough. senator rand paul, happy new year, sir. >> thank you. happy new year to you. >> appreciate it. up next, donald trump versus hillary clinton. he did it again this morning, folks. clinton accuses trump of sexism and trump hit back by going after bill. attacking bill to get to hillary has never w [ male announcer ] some come here to build something smarter. some come here to build something stronger. others come to build something faster... something safer... something greener. something the whole world can share. people come to boeing to do many different things.
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well, one of the most significant development this is past week was the emerging battle between two candidates who just might face off in november -- hillary clinton and donald trump. clinton accused trump of sexism and trump decided to fire back. he said "if that's how she wants to play it, fine." then it's fair for them to go after bill clinton and his his are i with women. zbl( she wants to accuse me of things and the husband is one of the great abusers of the world in give me a break. >> donald trump is saying nothing is off limit, including the clinton marriage. >> if he's out campaigning, he's fair game.
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>> tomorrow, former president bill clinton will make his first solo campaign stop for the psych until new hampshire. >> i am tired of the stranglehold that women have had on the job of presidential spouse. [ cheers and applause ] >> nearly nine months after announcing her presidential bid, hillary clinton is still struggling with how to effectively use her most high-profile surrogate. president clinton has had a mixed record campaigning for others. >> i don't have to defend myself. >> in 2008, his bitter attacks on then senator obama backfired? >> give me a break. this whole thing is the biggest fairy tail i've ever seen. >> in 2012, he became obama's best stand-in, embracing his role as the president's secretary of explaining stuff. >> we were losing 750,000 jobs a month. are we doing better than that today? the answer is yes. >> this year, bill clinton remains the most popular
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political figure in america. it's still not clear whether he's an asset or a liability for his wife's campaign. bernie sanders is campaigning against bill clinton's centrist school of democratic policy. >> i led -- helped lead the effort as a member of the house financial committee against alan greenspan, against a guy named bill clinton, maybe you know him, maybe you don't. >> hillary clinton has carefully distanced herself from her husband's legacy on free trade, financial regulation and criminal justice. but she has also embraced bill clinton's economic successes. >> i'm not running for my husband's third term and i am not running for barack obama's third term. i'm running for my first term. >> but trump is trying to do to hillary what no republican has successfully done -- make bill clinton's personal problem a political liability for her. trump wasn't always so critical of the former president's personal life. the clintons were guests at trump's third wedding and in the late '90s trump criticized "moralists in congress who
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express public outrage at the president's immoral behavior." >> he had sex but now they talk about the kind of sex, where it took place, where it was, on the desk, off the desk. i mean, it's so out of control. >> even in 2008 trump called clinton's affair totally unimportant. and he has his own complicated marital history. are your own affairs fair game? >> yes, they would be. hillary brought up sexist and i reversed it on her. she has a major problem, happens to be flight her house. >> i have the panel here. host of hardball, chris matthew, jennifer rubin, sara fagen, former political director for george w. bush's administration and eugene robinson, also a "washington post" columnist in. welcome all. chris, what's trump up to with these clinton attacks? what's he up to? >> he's playing defense because he got caught with the charge of sexism so he's shooting back. but in 1998, the republican
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party in the congress impeached bill clinton. two years later hillary clinton was elected u.s. senator. there's a caw causality. the way she handled the situation, the stoll it way she handled it, going up for chuck schumer, despite all the embarrassment it made her look strong and gave her a chance to prove herself as an independent political figure. if she hadn't been elected to the united states senate, hadn't had the guts to run for it she would have a candidate in 2008. >> i think this is a shrewd move for him in the primary more importantly than the general because here's a person who seven months ago said bill clinton was the president he admired most of recent history. more than either president bush, he admired bill clinton. he defended him as you pointed out. he call hillary clinton a friend, called her a great senator. >> he needed a shift. you're saying he needed a shift? >> he needs to inoculate himself against coming attacks. >> i think this has everything to do with the republican primary and nothing to do with the democrats or general election. trump is the man who channels
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he is the guy who he says speaks against political correctness. well, this is what he's doing. this is what his folks like to hair. they like to hear attacks on democrats, they like to hear irrerence and i thinkhis th act hs been doing al alng thatnie t prary. thether thing he doing is establishing himself or rtring himself as the rublicancandide. >> inevibility. >> and t genel elecon, him verus hilly clinton. >> just when we're fusedn thepriry. >> that's go forim. >> buthere' always a reason w trump goe afer somebo. something se him off. et playfor you wt think s trp off initial and it ad nothi too with sexim. it's whatilla clion sd at deba. >>he is bomingiss' st reciter. th a goi to eople, showin vide of dold trump insulng iam and muslin order toecruimore radil hadts. >>now lisn this now, obvioly tre was no video at t time tha xist.
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in theast 48 urstheris a vide o tre. al shaba andl qaeda afliat group insomalia, ink w'll owom form this that basical ju sows nald trmp ding thi -- that's wha set himoff, ris. so noe'll say s gav them e ea. >> what do you man bthat? >> the fact tha shesaid they're using his video t recruit, well, subsequent t her sayg that they bega to it. it was frid -- >> th's what his logic is goingo be. >> thk hisreaction was "you have to say what you have to say" i mean and -- >> you're guessing. i'll show you something. here's what his supporters said in biloxi, mississippi, about the charge. >> i don't believe it at all. i don't. i don't believe it at all. screw them damn muslims. >> that's bologna. i don't believe a second of it. no. >> i think it's stupid news people. it's not happening.
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it's not happening.
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