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tv   To the Contrary With Bonnie Erbe  PBS  January 18, 2015 3:00pm-3:31pm EST

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funding for to the contrary provided by the cornell douglas foundation committed to encouraging stewardship of the environment, land conservation, watershed protection and eliminating harmful chemicals. additional funding provided by the colcom foundation, the wallace genetic foundation, the oak foundation the carpenter foundation and the charles a. frueauff foundation foundation. >> this week on to the contrary... first, why women and girls become jihadis. and are transgender employees a protected class? behind the headlines when sex trafficking is the family business.
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[♪] >> hello i'm bonnie erbe welcome to to the contrary a discussion of news and social trends from diverse perspectives. up first children and terrorism. recent traft acts have the u.s. and europe on high alert but authorities are not just on the look out for masked men. more and more they are seeing women and children committing acts of terror. in nigeria, boko haram used a 10-year-old girl as a suicide bomber. isis released a video of a child participating in an assassination. and hayat boumeddiene took part in the terror attract on the
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kosher grocery in paris her husband amedy coulibaly is believed to have connections to isis. >> we are looking at girls sometimes they are 13 and 14 years old a lot of the kind of recruitment mirrors the ways in which pedophiles go after young children on the internet. it is a very abusive and it's a very insidious form of trying to build rapport and trust. >> but most women who sign up for isis do not become soldiers. more often they are trained to be housewives some are drafted to be police and terrorize other women and others help in recruitment efforts. the u.s. is trying to prevent women and girls from joining isis. the u.s. uses social media to
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counter the proper beganday. we need to fight the allure of being part of a islamic state and becoming famous and all of the other after life benefits they are being promised. if you tell someone are you going to die and seeking martyrdom that fits into the paradigm of what they are seeking. >> how is it that isis has been able to recruit western women? >> well they are smart and they are targeting vulnerable young girls. women is a broad statement when they are 13 and 14 years old. >> i totally agree. i caution on using the word recruit because i think this is very predatory. and i think we should be looking at these young girls and asking ourselves why aren't their families and communities wrapping their arms around them so they are not vulnerable. isis is a cult and they know how to brainwash. when you have a vulnerable
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class, immature these are girls it's romantic and they fantasize about being with them. >> and all increases has been an equal opportunity employer. think of patty hearst. >> all right. how do you counter that? i mean we have not had if you look at the numbers all that many western women going to isis. it's maybe a total of 200-300 according to mia bloom and a handful from the united states. in fact three teenagers were stopped in denver a few months ago. they thought they were headed to syria and isis. and they were stopped. how do we stop and find more? >> well clearly isis is enjoying the fruits of their own recruitment, the energy they are putting into it. the energy that isis is putting into it the state department is correct in responding with its own answer to that call it
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propaganda call it inoculation to the vulnerable populations. but the root issue is we have vulnerable population of women and girls who will be more vulnerable to this message. >> does this mean that any teenager most of these young women have been daughters of algerian parents who immigrated to france or germany and the children are born there. don't they have some kind of obligation in western europe to start reaching out to these idle teenagers with nothing to do, and get them back in school and get their communities to embrace them. >> there is no question monitor something necessary but it's to start at home and i don't know the situation for most of the young ladies. >> bloom says one of seven children of an algerian immigrant and she her mother died when she was young so you
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have a father. struggling financially and with seven kidsism and isis are using women that are with them to make the draw. so instead of seeing men go hey, come come you have women saying this is wonderful you will get married all the propaganda they use to draw the women in. i do agree the monitor something a big thing with social media now anybody can get anyone to do anything it's frightening. >> and it's interesting when you talk about this, because it puts into relief how savage the people are and we think of women as the protecttors the nurturers and the idea they would be used to recruit young girls is such a distorted way of thinking about society that i think it's very disheartening. but i recently was listening to the author of radical and he talks about his journey from radicalized islam to the west. and talks about the attention they give to women and how it's
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just as important his wife was recruited as he was. and they used different arguments and spent a lot of time emphasizing how can we use women as tools. >> and what makes those girls help me if you can get inside the head of a 13, 14-year-old girl. she living living in terrible poverty but has access to a computer. what lures her? how can that be stopped and countered? >> maybe not. i think of it like this. i don't want to suggest this is a huge phenomenon because it's not. it's a couple hundred girls and i don't want to suggest it is poor girls who have nothing to do. there are privileged girls. why does a little girl want to be kim kardashian? i think that though from what we can continue to do from a western perspective is to really be cautious about our own propaganda. what some of the young girls are seeing is a demonization of
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islam that they are taking personally. they are feeling some sense of empathy with the crazy of isis because they think that western culture is suppresssive. and it's important for us to draw that distinction no we are not radical we love all people and embrace all people but we have no tolerance with people who hate the west. >> now, this is another tie-in what should we be doing when we capture girls trying to go and sign up? professor bloom said we should not arrest them and throw them in jail. we should use them as spokespersons in social media to tell other girls i found out my friend went and she was raped by 10 guys. >> well you know, i was going to say that is assuming once they are caught that they are going to be receptive to wanting to tell people don't do it. >> it might be receptive if the
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alternative was 10 years in prison. >> what the alternative is. and one of the things that was compel about the book radical he explains the relationship between the men and the women and when you do that even with young girls -- >> what is the relationship? >> there's so much repression that women become an object and the relationship between men and women is so perverted it's unhealthy that no longer are men and women able to have a healthy relationship. it is a power struggle it's women being used as part of the arsenal. so i think the more we can talk about that and not feel like we can't talk about it the better. >> good question what do we do with 13 and 14-year-olds. >> they are program add according to professor bloom not to believe nittany westerner tells them. >> i am not a fan of criminalizing young people for the sake of it. so i think that that is an interesting question that we
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have to figure out. getting involved in any situation of homeland security is not good for anyone let alone a 13 or 14-year-old. >> and patty hearst one of the most famous cases in america once they are programmed how long does it take to deprogram them? and that is counseling and intervention maybe if the parents were not involved to get them involved. it is a lot of things that have to be done if we are going to make a difference. >> is it kind of impossible in the sense that the french said i read somewhere that finding the two brothers they were on the radar already as troublemakers. but to assign to pick somebody out and try to get to them before they go radicalize takes 25 police officers. and the french don't have that times 300. so is it even possible to for premptive action? unless as we saw in belgium
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anilation? >> this is like any other problem you have to lift up the basket and let the light of day in. in the age of social media we have a wonderful opportunity to tell the straight story about what it truly means to be radicalized. and there is a nice opportunity there. >> all right. let us know what you think. follow me on twitter at bonnie erbe. from terrorism to discrimination. does title vii the law that protects americans against a variety of forms of discrimination on the job also effect transgender employees? that is at the heart of a confusing legal battle between former saks fifth avenue employee leyth jamal and its parent company hudson bay. the company wants a federal court in texas to dismiss a discrimination lawsuit filed by leyth jamal and the company agrees that title vii does protect all people from sexual discrimination and adds that law
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does not pertain in this case which is about gender identity and transgender status. jamaal charges she was ordered to stop expressing her gender identity on the job and was called a prostitute in front of store customers. she says she was fired. saks says it's committed to lgbt equality. the justice department and the eeoc announced title vii does indeed cover gender identity. all right. what is going on with saks? i don't get it. they say they are pro lgbtq and drop off the t because by the same token, they are trying to get this lawsuit dismissed? >> well what saks is demonstrating they are hypocrites. saks has a nondiscrimination policy and they are reneging on it but they had a policy that
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they believed all lgbt people from free from discrimination. they wanted to fire this transgender person simply because they are discriminating against her based on her gender identity because they are saying she is not fulfilling the sex role that they believe that she should be fulfilling. the problem heresies -- >> they wanted her to be a man. >> to be a man because they want her to be a man but that is not her gender identity. so they are discriminating against her sex and that is what she is alleging and suing on. they are saying they have the legal right to discriminate based on her sex is what they are suggesting. >> this is complicated and it goes to show that a lot of times these laws have to go hand in hand with cultural shifts we may have laws in place doesn't mean society has caught up in the
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same way. there is a growing emphasis to pay attention to this and to become more accepting. we're seeing transgender people in tv shows like orange is the new black. it's going to become something that people are more comfortable with but i think we have to give it time. >> meaning what? meaning that the suit should be dismissed or pay out? >> i'm not sure saks does not have a case. i don't know if they have a right to say this person does not fit the needs of this job. if the needs are identifying with the customers i would think that they have the right to -- >> that is not the case. are you right it's complex here is we are we are with the case. we are in a place in this case demonstrates why we need to marry public policy with what is happening with different court cases. where we are right now is that sex discrimination the civil rights code protects gender. where we are now is that the federal government is
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interpreting the civil rights code to protect transgender people by saying if you discriminate against a transgender person it is akin to discriminating somebody based on their sex. the justice department has said this. and now some courts have also made this interpretation and i say some courts because it has not gone to the supreme court. we are in this very murky gray area of the law here because the federal government is saying this is the interpretation there are courts that followed suit and says we have precedence this is the interpretation in the district where this case is filed with saks that district does not have precedent. >> and the facts are the -- >> this is all unchartered territory. and to your point, it is going to be messy. to your point, we have this sort of marriage of what is going on in society catching up with law and law catching up with what is happening in society. the bottom line is that saks is
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going to say what saks needs to say to protect its corporate self. >> is the lgbt community going to respond? >> i would assume so. i would assume so. >> the human rights campaign which keeps a corporate equality index which corporations find to be a boost for them has removed saks from the ranks. they used to have a high score because they had a policy that said we believe all people should be treated equally. the gay community says we are not going to deal with hypocrites. >> and if i could i think what we are experiencing here is of course the corporate general counsel for saks is going to react that protects saks' interest when in truth i don't think this represents saks' position. >> i'm sorry. i look at it in two tracks and i don't know all the facts i'm not
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going -- certainly if she was working and being discriminated by coworkers you know being treated improperly in front of customers yes she should fight. if it is a situation where your employer whether you are straight transgender gay, this is what i'm hiring you to do do this job and if you don't come through with it i will dismiss you. >> the lawsuit is suing because she was being pushed into the gender roles and harassed and nasty things were said to her on the job. >> i wonder why they -- did she start there before she had transgendered? but i mean so she walks in as a woman and they want her to be a man. where does that come from. >> exactly why she is filing the lawsuit. >> and tell me how that behavior should be treated across the country? >> it's the same thing when you look at the law and i want to put a plug this is why we need
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congress to pass the employment non-discrime act. >> is that going to happen? >> we have been working on it and a broader nondiscrimination act. but when you boil it down it's the same thing to me as discriminating against someone who may be transitioning religions. if someone was born and raised catholic then they transition and get married and become protestant you are not in their workplace start to harass them and force them to be something that they are trains itioning into not being. and it's the same with gender. >> behind the headlines. domestic sex trafficking of minors. lizz winstead was trafficked by elizabeth corey was trafficked by her parents. the abuse spanned generations. >> i know a lot of people have this idea that trafficking only
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happens in big cities or other countries. and the case of my mother it was happening in rural north carolina. so for years and years, hundreds of years probably there has been this sex abuse and domestic violence within our family. and everybody participated. >> domestic minor sex trafficking involves the sexual exploitation of u.s. citizens or legal permanent residents under the age of 18. a 2012ngo report reveals 41% of sex trafficking cases in the united states involved american victims. another study projected each victim would be raped by 6,000 buyers while being trafficked. >> when i became seven or eight years old was when they felt i had been broken in enough by the family sex abuse to begin the trafficking.
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primarily my father was my trafficker. >> corey says her grandfather trafficked and sexually abused her. >> i sprained my ankle on the way home from the hospital he decided he was going to stop at a bar and he went into the bar leaving me in the car. went into the bar and in order to get his drinks paid for he told men that he had a 13-year-old in the car. and they would come out and rape me. and then go back in and pay for his drinks. >> corey sought help until the age of 8 when she gave up. and told us traffickers have ways of intimidating witnesses that why she wants to see harsher penalties to curb demand. >> trafficking will not exist without demand this means addressing demand with people who are let's say very powerful people. maybe somebody has bought a child who is a federal judge. what we have a habit of doing in this country is sweeping that
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under the rug. >> domestic trafficking can be very difficult for the general public to detect. corey says it usually take a long-term relationship to identify a problem. she is working with a branch of the federal health and human services department to develop training for medical professionals. >> i experienced constant chronic illness chronic pain, also having constant urinary tract infections and issues in the reproductive areas that children should have no issues with at all. >> corey did not start recovery until she had her children at the age of 34. twins. she hopes other survivors do not have to wait so long and can have access to the long-term services they need. >> we'll provide recovery services for a trafficking survivor for three to four months. and then we are going to set them out in the world. i have been recovering now for seven-and-a-half years. and some of the heavy hard
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hitting belief systems that i was brought up to have are still unraveling. we need to be in a position as a society to give people the time that they need. >> so sam how prevalent is this in america? >> way more prevalent than anyone wants to acknowledge. some statistics point in general that one in every three american women has experienced some form of sexual abuse. >> what about the trafficking? >> the trafficking piece it's almost impossible to measure. having been trafficked myself of course i have my own personal experience but there's statistics that -- >> not by your family. >> not by my family. >> that is what is amazing to me her father and grandfather. >> multigenerational characteristic is prevalent is all forms of sexual abuse and domestic violence. my mother had been raped by a family member when she was six
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and that family member was 16. and she never addressed it. until she went into therapy in her 50s. and that is where i found out about it and what had happened because i am her firstborn daughter i assimilated that value system that my mother excueded and what happened to me? i was sexually abused by a man who she had brokered that he would hire me as a babysitter. and she did not do that consciously but unconsciously that definitely happened and it was that experience as a continuum that led me to run away from home and go where all white girls go to new york city where i was plucked off the bus and thrust into white slavery until i escaped. there is another characteristic that very important -- >> having experienced all that how do you guys live? how do you -- you not only continued to thrive you ran a national women's
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organization, are you involved in local politics in pennsylvania. how do you get through that and get up every morning? >> i wouldn't be here today at 57 with three wonderful children and a wonderful marriage and two stunning grandchildren, i am allowed to say that, without having a doctor a general doctor practitioner say something is wrong. when i became pregnant with my fourth child and i chose to terminate that pregnancy and he said something is wrong and pointed p me to a therapist and i was 29. >> were you still being trafficked at 29? >> no, it ended when i was 17. you may only have the trauma for cumulatively maybe it is a day. well i've ghn therapy for 27 years since then to unwind the effect. this idea that you can be assimilated back into society is off base. the other thing that is so
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important there is a study that showed of all the arrests around sexual trafficking over 80% are of the women that have been trafficked. 20% are the johns and less than 1% is the pimps. so we have to prettily reverse that. the women like myself were at the receiving end of this are the ones being punished. we have to reverse that. >> we are out of time but that was dramatic. that is it. and your book is coming out soon. follow me on twitter and visit our website and whether you agree or think to the contrary, see you next week.
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funding for to the contrary provided by the cornell douglas foundation. committed to encouraging stewardship of the environment, land conservation watershed protection and eliminating harmful chemicals. additional funding provided by the colcom foundation, the wallace genetic foundation, the oak foundation, the e rhodes and carpenter foundation and the charles a. frueauff foundation. for a transcript or see an on-line version of this episode of to the contrary visit
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>> from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original for over three decades. the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. >> issue one. is al qaeda back? al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, known as aqap, has taken responsibility this week for the deadly terrorist rampage last week in paris. the death toll in that murder spree was 17 -- the 10 journalists of satirical magazine charlie hebdo, the three french police officers four hostages two of the islamic terrorists, said and cherif kouachi, joined aqap during previous travels to yemen.


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