with investment objectives, risks, fees, expenses, and other information to read and consider carefully before investing. good morning, and welcome to "this week." devastation in the gulf. will bp pay the price? >> i don't want them nickel and diming people down here. >> we'll get the latest from the national incident xhaernd, admiral thad allen. then -- >> people have been killed. >> a deadly showdown on the high seas. >> this wasn't a love boat. this was a hate boat. >> a challenge raises tensions in the middle east. two top senators, john kerry and john cornyn on how the u.s.
should move forward. and does the oil spill bring new urgency to senator kerry's energy bill. you're talking about messing with history. >> the game that wasn't perfect, and the gentlemen who were. we'll get george will's take. arianna huffington, liz cheney and markos moulitsas. and as always, the "sunday funnies." >> let's start with the good news. it is now clear there is an awful lot of oil in our earth. good morning. for the first time we've been told that the flow of oil gushing from the well has slowed thanks to the containment dome.
yet, on the surface, oil is washing ashore in four states, including florida. joining me this morning, the man leading the massive federal response, coast guard admiral thad allen. thanks for joining us. >> good morning, jake. >> what is the latest? >> from midnight in the last 24 hours, about 10,000 barrels were collected. >> the ceo of bp, anthony hayward, says he hopes it will contain a majority of the oil. do you agree? >> that's correct. they're trying take the pressure. take the pressure off. we're not going to know how much oil is coming out until they optimize production. they're trying to raise production slowly. 6,000 the day before, 10,000 yesterday. >> a lot of talk about in 1993, the saudis had an oil spill. they used huge tankers to vacuum up the oil. how come we have not used that?
>> we talked to those folks. the tankers have to be modified. they're not ready to go right now. we don't know how they operate. the area of operations is different. we have anywhere from 20 to 30 vessels over the top of that well at any particular time. managing remotely operated vehicles, doing the drilling wells. i'm not sure it's the right application. >> i just got back from grand isle. i was told about the huge oil slick, four miles wide, 30 miles long, maybe 4 to 12 inches thick. what can you tell us about the slick? >> we're trying fight this thing offshore. this is war. it's attacking four states at one time. it comes from different directions depending on the weather. offshore skimmers are the way to handle it. because we can do burning above the well. once it gets close to shore, it's got be mechanical skimming. and getting it off the shore. >> is there a big oil slick coming? >> there are a number of slicks.
one of the problems is that it's not one huge spill. it's disaggregated itself into smaller spills. depending on when it came to the surface, it's split into hundreds if not thousands of different slicks. >> what about the plumes? >> there are reports of higher density clouds below the surface. noaa's taken the lead. they've dispatched vessels. to start taking samples to get the percentage of hydrocarbons. they're putting together a model of the gulf and what it looks like. >> bp has downplayed the severity of the leak. they've downplayed the risks of efforts to contain the leak. you and the federal government have relied and continue to rely on their information. have you been too trusting of bp? >> i'm not sure it's a matter of trust. we have to work in parallel. in a cooperative manner.
>> are they always honest with you? >> when i ask them for something, i get it. >> including correct information? >> correct. >> if you have all the resources you need, as you said, why is there still massive amounts of oil coming into the marshes if you're getting what you need? >> this spill has disaggregated. it's not a monolithic spill. it's hundreds of thousands of smaller spills. we have to not only be prepared to deal with the oil on shore, we have to push it out to miles offshore. we have to have skimming capability from louisiana to port st. joe, florida. we have to skim it further out. we're in the process of putting the skimmers in place. >> do you have all that you need in order to keep the oil from hitting the shore? >> we're bringing all the
skimming equipment in the united states not being used anywhere else to use it there. the further this gets disaggregated, the more there will be a need for skimming. >> i saw firsthand, all the workers in louisiana, all the workers there, working for the government, bp, private contractors. they have been told not the talk to the press, the public about their work. shouldn't they be allowed to share with the public what they are doing? >> i have put out a written directive. i can provide it. the media will have access except for two things. if it's a security or a safety problem. that's my policy. i'm the national incident commander. >> i can tell you firsthand, people are not following that. >> i'll be glad to take the information, you tell me where it's at. i'll be glad to get the word. >> admiral allen, thank you for joining us. this week, president obama used the gusher in the gulf to push the senate to work on a comprehensive energy bill that senator john kerry introduced
earlier in the year. also joining us, along with senator kerry. senator cornyn. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> glad to be with you. >> do you think the obama administration has been too cozy or too trusting with bp? >> no, i think they're holding bp's feet to the fire. this has been, as you heard admiral allen say, it's continued to dissipate. it continues to provide challenges. i think they've got an extraordinary number of workers, 17,500 national guard. over 20,000 workers. almost 2,000 vessels. they're growing to meet the demand. i'm convinced you'll see the congress, the administration, together, hold bp and the drilling process accountable. >> senator cornyn, how would you rate the response by bp? should tony hayward stay or go? >> well, bp's response has been lousy.
they're the ones that started this problem. 48 days into it, i'm glad to hear admiral allen say we have accumulated the human and physical assets to deal with the problem. but it sure has taken a long time. i think a lot of the confusion has been because no one has known who was in charge. is it the president of the united states? the ceo of british petroleum? is it admiral allen? we need the president to step up and assert himself and say, let's cut through the red tape. let's cut through the change of command. let's get the assets where they need to be to protect the people and assets of that region. >> senator kerry, you were smiling in that, you to want to respond? >> it's sort of fashionable to try to blame the obama administration. for thisdy dissaster that occurred with a drilling problem
with bp. from the first moment, within hours of this happening, president obama was notified. the next day, he held a principles meeting. he's been down there three times. the best minds are being brought to bear on this. the government of the united states doesn't do the drilling. government of the united states doesn't have the technology. they've been racing to try to make up for bp's mistakes and the absence of a sufficient level of emergency. frankly, we had eight years, as many of us remember, of secret oil industry meetings where they wrote the oil laws where there was an incestuous relationship with the mms. and everybody understands this relationship has to change. i think it is changing now. here's what's important. not to throw the blame around. but to put america on a course to independence and to wean
ourselves from oil. congress has a chance to catch up to the rest of the world. china, india, japan, other countries are using american-designed technologies. in solar and wind. they're ruring them to the marketplace. the united states is missing a moment until we begin to do something. since 9/11, we import more oil than we did before 9/11. it's insulting to common sense. what we need to do is, we need to pass a comprehensive policy that prices carbon and moves america to the future so we can get into the marketplace. we'll have less pollution, better health, better national security. increased ability to provide our own national energy policy. and we will create millions of jobs. >> senator cornyn, your response? senator kerry obviously advocating for his energy bill. >> there are parts of the bill
that senator kerry and lieberman have introduced that i think are positive steps. the acknowledgment that we can't completely cut ourselves off from domestic sources of oil and gas. we need to explore nuclear power. that's certainly an important part of the overall picture. where i disagree is that we need to tax the american consumer and the american business at a time when with an energy tax, a new energy tax, when unemployment is at 10%. if we do that, we'll kill a lot of jobs that currently exist. together with the moratorium, that is of uncertain duration, particularly in the gulf states, governor jindal and others have expressed concern, that a lot of people that make their livelihood in the oil and gas industry are going to be out of work. so we need to be very careful here. i think rather than a grand slam home run, i would like to try to hit some singles and develop nuclear power, battery technology that will help us deal with the environmental
concerns. and then let's look to divert more of our demand to natural gas, that we have in plentiful supply. >> i want to let you respond -- >> you know, jake. if i can just say, i'm delighted to hear john say he wants to work with us. and obviously, i've been working with lindsey graham, joe lieberman. we want to reach across the aisle and reach accommodation. let me tell you, joe dimaggio, ted williams, babe ruth, never stepped up to bat in the world series and said, i want to hit a single. the fact is, the united states is behind in an enormous challenge globally. china, india and others are spending millions of dollars to take the discoveries we made and take them to the marketplace.
we're in a race against science. science tells us we need to reduce the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. every major study done by a legitimate group, most recently, the peterson school of economics, shows that there are hundreds of thousands of jobs to be created if you pass our legislation. if you wind up pricing carbon. no tax in our bill. unfortunately, there are some folks that call anything and everything that is dreamed up in washington is tax. there is no tax. we what's we do is have a system where those who are polluters in the country have a requirement to reduce their pollution. in doing so, we create any numbers of jobs by moving to natural gas, to nuclear, alternative, renewable energy, to energy efficiency, to converges of vehicles to natural gat. to retrofitting homes.
there are countless ways to put americans to work with jobs that stay in america. every one of those studies says this will not raise the cost of energy for most americans. and it will, in fact, protect the consumers as we create the jobs. >> i want to move on to the situation in the middle east right now, if i could. senator cornyn, it's become clear that israel killed a u.s. citizen in international waters. with this flotilla incident. what should the u.s. response be when an ally kills a u.s. citizen? >> like you said, we don't know all the circumstances yet. it appears to be premeditated provocation of israel and an attempt to run the blockade since hamas took over gaza. hamas, of course, is designated as a foreign terrorist organization by bill clinton's
administration. >> they took over gaza through elections pushed by the bush administration. >> they're a terrorist organization no matter how they came to power. and so you can understand why an organization committed to the destruction of israel is a matter of concern to them. they are entitled, as matter of their self-defense, so look to see if weapons or other items are being smuggled in. egypt has the same kind of blockade, though there are numerous tunnels. this was clearly a premeditated provocation. it's unfortunate that lives were lost. i think it should have been a situation like before if the people organizing the flotilla had been committed to peaceful activity, as opposed to provocation, this would in the have occurred. and israel would have been able to examine the contents of the
flotilla. and they would have been delivered to the people of gaza and they would have gotten help. >> david petraeus recently said that this conflict foments anti-american sentiment. arab anger of the palestinian question limits the strength and depth of u.s. partnerships. and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes. a quote this week from the director of mossad is that israel a burden. do you believe that the state of israel has become a strategic liability for the united states? >> i don't believe that. there are, obviously, tensions with respect to certain policies. we have seen that. let's begin at the beginning of a big picture here. israel has every right in the world to make certain that weapons are not being smuggled in after the thousands of rockets that have been fired on it from gaza.
and israel has every right, as recognized by the international community. because it's not just israel conducting the blockade. it's israel and egypt. you begin with the right that israel has to protect themselves. that said, gaza is a humanitarian challenge. i think israel understands that. this has underscored it. >> you were there. you were in gaza in 2009. you found out that they could not even bring pasta into gaza. it was on a list of prohibited items. you went to the israelis and said, what gives? i think they bent on that. what is the situation that the israelis won't even let pasta in? >> there's confusion in the process. i've talked to the prime minister and the defense minister about this. i believe that israel is working
now to try to put together, and we need to work with them to make this happen. we need to guarantee that the supplies for building can go in to gaza for reconstruction. but that they're not going to be able to be used by hamas to build rockets or bunkers, or to augment hamas' position in gaza. i think there's way to do this. i think we need to do in the days ahead is to put out a list of the things that cannot go in and have a clarity for those groups trying to get things in. and get back to the access cooperation that existed previously where we have a better flow of goods. let me just tell you. it's in israel's interest, to deal more effectively with the gaza situation. right now you have hamas building a seaside resort using goods smuggled through the rafa
tunnels while the united nations entity in gaza has 40,000 kids on a waiting list to go to school and they're trying to build 15 schools this year. i believe we need to work with israel diligently in the next few days and get the goods moving. but we also need to remember that iran is trying to foment a next intefada. there is nothing they would like more than to create a violent explosion. and the tension is real enough that that there is a threat of war in the middle east. we need to work extra hard to bring the parties together and try to move the proximity talks to final status discussions as soon as possible. nothing would do more to address the concerns of general petraeus.
to build trust, to diminish the ability of hamas, hezbollah, iran and others than to get to the final status issues as soon as possible. >> we only have a few more minutes. senator cornyn, a few weeks ago, you said richard blumenthal damaged his reputation. you said that the public is looking for candidates and office holders that they trust. mark kirk said this week he had misrepresented his war record. do you have a different standard for republicans who misstate war records? >> no, jake. and mark kirk made clear that his company, his organization got that medal, not him personally. i think the problem with mr.
blumenthal. he had a press conference and said he had misspoken. that's like saying you have shot yourself in one foot and reloading and shooting yourself in the other foot. people are human. they make mistakes. they ought to admit it. hopefully people will forgiver them and they can move on. there are a lot of other important issues in the illinois race. we expect mark kirk to be the next united states senator from illinois. in the seat formerly held by barack obama. >> senator kerry, last question. i assume you disapprove of what mr. kirk has done. what about mr. blumenthal? you are a decorated war veteran. you served in vietnam. did that not offend you? >> i think every veteran has their own feelings about it. obviously, it didn't sit well with a lot of folks. i think the candidates are dealing with it at the local level. the electorate will make the judgments.
the only thing i disagree with john on is that i think the next senator from illinois will be alexi giannoulis. >> what do you think? how do you feel as a decorated vietnam war veteran? >> look, again, as i said, let the voters at the local level sort this out. i think all of us who served have witnessed over the last 30 or 40 years strange aftermath surrounding vietnam. as i think rich armitage said a couple of years ago. when i was involved in the race for the presidency. vietnam seems to be the gift that keeps on giving. we all have to work our way through what ever it is that surfaces about it. the voters in those states -- dick blumenthal has a long and distinguished record.
he's been a terrific attorney general. think the people in that state respect him. he stepped over a line. he's apologized for it. it's time the move on. >> senators, thank you so much for coming into our show today. we appreciate it. "the roundtable" is next. george will, arianna huffington, liz cheney and markos moulitsas. later, "the sunday funnies." >> james cameron has been called in to help bp stop the oil spill. soon, they'll be failing in 3-d. and the cars are whipping by, and all you can do is take a snapshot of the way the road looked 5 minutes ago, how would you know when to cross the road? 9 out of 10 organizations still make decisions this way every day... using out-of-date information. the organizations that are most competitive are going to be the ones that can make sense of what they learn as fast they learn it. that's what i'm working on. i'm an ibmer. let's build a smarter planet.
the gulf spill is a tragedy that never should have happened. i'm tony hayward. bp has taken full responsibility for cleaning up the spill in the gulf. we've helped organize the largest environmental response in this country's history. more than 2 million feet of boom, 30 planes, and over 1,300 boats are working to protect the shoreline. where oil reaches the shore, thousands of people are ready to clean it up. we will honor all legitimate claims,
and our clean-up efforts will not come at any cost to taxpayers. to those affected and your families, i'm deeply sorry. the gulf is home for thousands of bp employees and we all feel the impact. to all the volunteers and for the strong support of the government, thank you. we know it is our responsibility to keep you informed and do everything we can so this never happens again. we will get this done. we will make this right. hey what'sng on? doing the shipping. man, it would be a lot easier if we didn't have to weigh 'em aoi. if those boxes are under 70 lbs. you don't have to weigh 'em. with these priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service, if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. no weigh? nope. no way. yeah. no weigh? sure. no way! uh-uh. no way. yes way, no weigh. priority mail flat rate box shipping starts at $4.95, only from the postal service.
♪ [ male announcer ] progress. progress for new york city cab drivers, like ossman ali is being able to carry people, who aren't carrying cash. meaning more convenience for passengers, and more business for cab drivers. all thanks to the ease and freedom of visa digital currency. now that's progress. visa. currency of progress.
ground ball, right side, cabrera will cut it off. he's out! no, he's safe. >> oh, wow. >> geez. >> an absolutely blown call. >> jim joyce missed that call at first. wow. >> the umpire blew a perfect game for this kid. >> it was an innocent mistake. >> nobody feels as bad as i do about this. >> just move on. just move on. >> you can see the emotion on the face of jim joyce. >> so amazing. amazing. >> what a special moment here today. >> scenes from the perfect game that wasn't. one of many topics we'll tackle today with george will, liz cheney, markos moulitsas. and arianna huffington.
i want to start with the oil spill. we'll get to the baseball game if a moment. here's tony hayward, one week ago today. >> there's no one that wants this thing over more than i do. i would like my life back. >> i would like my life back. well, $50 million in advertising, here's tony hayward today. >> i'm deeply sorry. the gulf is home to thousands of bp employees. we feel the impact. we know sit our responsibility to keep you inform eed and to d everything we can to make sure this doesn't happen again. >> the president expressed concern about this. what do you think? >> they're trying to preserve value. they have a responsibility to share holders. this week this crisis became a competitive display of emotions. it was reliably reported by mr. gibbs from the white house press room that the presidential jaw clenched this week. we live in a therapeutic society.
the president is supposed to be therapist in chief. this is somewhat ridiculous. we have a problem and getting the presidential feelings shared appropriately is not high on the list. >> what do you think about the ad campaign? is it appropriate? >> i don't think so. when you have the state of louisiana waiting for money from bp to try and build berms. it doesn't accomplish what bp is trying to accomplish, trying to preserve shareholder value. they would be much better served if nay had a daily briefing. they say, here's what we have done today, what we're going to do tomorrow. if they actually responded here. they're worrying about image when people are suffering. that does the opposite. it's hard to defend. >> i want to ask you about the president's emotion. here's one of president obama's biggest celebrity supporters.
spike lee, on cnn, on wednesday. >> he's very calm. cool, collected. but one time, go off. and there's any one time to go off. >> and here's president obama the next night on cnn. >> i would love to spend a lot of my time venting and yelling at people. but that's not the job i was hired to do. my job is to solve this problem. and ultimately, this is not about me and how angry i am. >> you and i were talking about this. a few days ago you would have dismissed this. this emotional criticism. that he's not being demonstrative enough. you're not sure anymore. >> to a certain degree. i think they're worried that another company is going get away with pillaging a beloved
part of america. we spent the last two years hearing about how obama is a communist because he wants too much regulation. they're talking drill, baby, drill. people are realizing maybe that is not such a good idea. i think they're realizing that regulation is maybe okay where the government is protecting the american people from corporations like bp or banks on wall street. >> do you think the government is too close to bp in this situation? >> definitely at the beginning. they listened to bp. they bought what bp was saying. it wasn't accurate. bp consistently underestimates the severity of the problem. the progress they were making. and even now. we have on your show, admiral allen saying he trusts bp. i don't know why he continues to trust bp and why he continues to trust tony hayward. this is not the first time bp has been in trouble and caused trouble.
it has had over 700 egregious violations before this. this is really part of the problem of the whole regulatory system. it was dismantled in the bush-cheney years. obama did not turn things around fast enough. >> it's not actually true that it was dismantled. there's an interesting piece in "the new york times" about what exceptions were granted this well and when. it turns out to have been in the obama administration. on the issue of the emotion, if the president were projecting cool, calm, collected, competence, the people would say, that's great. the problem is this notion this sort of sense that he's detached while he's not able to produce, while he's not able to respond effectively on the ground. the people of louisiana asked for the berms. for three weeks, meetings, seminars, discussions. and yes, i'm going to use the
word dithering here in washington while the people in louisiana waited and the oil got closer to the shore. >> george? >> first, arianna, this is what the president has said. the american people should know that from the moment this disaster began, the federal government has been in charge of the response effort. make no mistake, bp is operating at our direction. with regard to whether or not we should regulate, it's a regulated industry. the minerals management service evidently didn't do a good job. at some point, we'll blame it on george bush. but it seems to have failed. at a moment when the federal government has taken over one-sixth of the economy. it's saying we have a 1,000 page bill because we just know how to turn down the thermostat on the planet. lord knows what else they're doing to rationalize american society at a moment when they're saying maybe the regulatory state is not what it's cracked
up to be. >> the truth is right now, the regulatory system that the bush-cheney administration wanted. full of cronies. full of loopholes. full of lobbyists filling the agencies they're supposed to be overseeing? >> it's bush's fault? >> it's absolutely 1,000% bush-cheney's fault, plu plus the fact that the obama administration has not done enough to change what is happening at the mms and all sorts of other administrations. all over. we're seeing the complete success of the kind of regulatory system that bush-cheney wanted. we're seeing this as a result of what that wanted. >> it's truly amazing. i actually heard that george bush was responsible for the breakup of tipper and al gore's marriage, too. it's incredible to the extent to
which peel are trying to place blame. you have to look at the facts. the left is going to try, you guys have been for years, trying to demonize bush and cheney. i'm sure you'll continue. we have got now, a catastrophe on the gulf coast, a catastrophe that happened on this administration's watch, which this administration is failing to clean up and lead. it is a problem we are seeing with this president across the board. a president with no leadership. >> the poster child of bush-cheney capitalism involved in this. halliburton. they were response for cementing the well -- after they defrauded the american taxpayer -- >> i don't know what planet you live on, it's not facts. what you're saying has no relationship to the truth. no relationship to the facts. >> how can you say that? halliburton was involved?
>> her assertion that halliburton defrauded the u.s. government? these are the lefts talking points. it's absolutely not true. it's absolutely not true. >> i'm so glad politifact is going to be covering this. i'm so glad. >> i want to give you time, markos. you've been suspiciously quiet on this "roundtable" so far. the american people see what is going on. they hold the current president responsible. >> i think that's true. i think the reason that obama is slipping. they're afraid another corporation is going to take advantage of a lax regulation and take advantage of the pro-business climate and get away maybe with not murder, this is not katrina, but with the defiling and destruction of the economies and the beauty and the coastlines of multiple u.s. states. that's the fear. they've seen it in wall street.
they saw wall street get away with it. they fear bp is going to get away with it. because certain companies are too big to be held accountability. i don't think they want a temper tantrum from the president. they want accountability. we haven't seen that yet. >> i think the people fear, economically, that moratorium on offshore drilling will compound the damage. >> the latest polling -- >> if you look at the jobs numbers, 400,000 jobs were temporary census jobs. it's entirely likely this moratorium on offshore drilling will wipe out the private sector jobs. let's go to the economy since liz brought it up. the may jobs number report came out. 431,000 jobs were created. only 30,000 were in the private
sector. this is not good news. >> it's terrible news. in may, the private sector stopped producing jobs, essentially. it was one-fifth the job creation in april. 41,000 in the private sector is less than half as many jobs that have to be created to keep up with the natural growth of the labor force. now the question is, why is this happening? one answer might be that we're seeing the prospect of a jobless recovery because of what happened in the late new deal. when business threw up its hands and said, there's too much uncertainty. the bush tax cuts will expire. interest rates have to go up sooner or later. the house passed a so-called jobs bill with $80 billion more in taxes in it. there may be climate change regulation. no one knows how obama-care is going affect the private sector. in pandemic uncertainty, capital goes on strike. >> you agree with your disappointment in the jobs
report. i'm guessing you disagree with the diagnosis? >> i agree that the obama administration has not done enough on jobs. there's no question about that. they've focused on making things good for wall street and not looking at main street. now we are playing the price for that. this is a structural problem. this is not a cyclical problem. as larry summers has been claiming it is. it's been the loss of manufacturing jobs for over 30 years now. we need to throw everything at the problem, including a payroll tax holiday, creating jobs the way we did in the depression. what is happening is really the assault on the middle class. we're looking at families that cannot send their kids to college. the long-term unemployment. that you mentioned. the 99ers. people that have been on unemployment for 99 weeks. who can have no possibility of extending them. it's a calamity. the raid of the flotilla. i want to show two clips.
showing difring points of view on the flotilla attack. the first is an al jazeera report. >> the organizers on board the boat after two people have been confirmed killed by the israeli army have asked all the passengers to go inside. they've raised the white flag. this after commandos descended on the ship. in international water. >> the second video is from the israeli defense forces. it shows troops being attacked as they descend on the boat with highlights from the idf. liz, the obama administration has not condemned israel as one of the few western countries in the world, if not the only one, that has not. you have criticized president obama for using the word tragic to describe the incident. why? >> well, the obama administration did actually sign on to a presidential statement
at the u.n. security council. >> after watering it down. >> yeah, but it called for investigation. israel is under attack by hamas, which uses gaza as platform from which to launch attacks. they want to destroy the state of israel. they're supported by the countries of iran, syria, and it look likes turkey as well. this flotilla, had it been committed to providie ining humanitarian relief, could have taken the israeli government up on the offer to dock and take the relief in. it was a propaganda ploy. you had people armed, ready for the israel commandos to arrive. that kind of moral equivalence is wrong and shameful but dangerous for the united states of america not be standing with israel.
that kind of moral equivalence is wrong. when we don't stand with israel on the face of this kind of attack by iran, syria, turkey, we send a clear message that those nations can attack israel with impunity and they can threat on the destroy israel with immune ty and the united states won't stand by the ally in the middle east. >> whether or not this was propaganda, it worked. >> this "with us or against us" approach, that got us into this trouble that we're in today. israel handled it so poorly. they alienated most of the world. an important arab ally in turkey and put the united states in a difficult position. if the goal was to enforce the blockade, they failed, because now egypt has opened up the
border. they handled it so incompetently that they worked against their own interests. >> what you said demonstrates the problems of israel. the government of turkey supported the launching of this flotilla. they've said, hamas is not a terrorist organization. the turks themselves have allied themselves with syria and iran. tells you what israel faces. >> arianna? >> the truth is that the long-term security interests of israel and the united states depend on marginalizing more of the extremists and bringing more of the moderates on our side. what israel is doing now is completely counterproductive. in terms of this very simple goal. because if we fail to bring more moderates in the middle east to see the world the way we're seeing the world, and we push
them more and more into the arms of the extremists, we are never going to have peace or security. >> to the extent that that fiction we call the international community makes it impossible to have the international boycott. you hasten the next middle eastern war. 6,000 rockets have been fired at israel. israel will have to take active defense. further more, no israeli prime minister is going to allow a two-state solutions if a palestinian state, based on the west bank can not allow armed presence on its eastern border to prevent the influx of arms. a two-state solution becomes impossible and the next war becomes likely all because people are trying to undermine
the legitimacy of israel's self-defense. >> a real humanitarian problem. in violation of the geneva convention that forbids collective punishment. the list of things not allowed to go into gaza, you understand why there's such chaos there. >> senator kerry did point out some of it -- >> they let pasta in. >> but that the hamas government was responsible as well. >> the west bank is not -- >> the hamas government is a terrorist organization. no one is saying anything contrary to that. the hamas government is a terrorist organization that won an election that bush-cheney and rice encouraged to happen. >> you were at the state department in 2005 and 2006 when the elections were pushed forward. some were saying don't do it. they're not ready for it. do you think that was a mistake?
>> i do. i don't think they were ready for it. i don't think they should have pushed it. i think senator cornyn's point is true. no matter how they came into power, they're a terrorist organization. if you look at the life on the west bank and the life in gaza, hamas is running gaza. the position you're taking says that israel does not have the right to stop a flotilla from -- >> who said that? who said that? nobody said that. >> your criticism. >> i said they handled it in a what they was so incompetent that it backfired on israel. not that they didn't have a right to do so. >> you agree they had a right to stop it? >> there's ways to do it that were not as aggressive in the ways they did it. the middle of the night, over the air. there's ways to handle blockades in international settings. you can use boats to redirect -- >> this was not a peaceful flotilla.
you had one yesterday that was peaceful and landed with no incident. for you to second guess and say there are ways -- >> it's not peaceful when it doesn't have -- >> the people on board were armed and ready to meet the israeli commandos. >> i want to move in. we're running out of time. i would be remiss if i didn't get one of america's best baseball writers to weigh in. there was a perfect game pitched on wednesday by andres galarraga. the record books will not show it. should we have instant replay in baseball? didn't bud selig mess up by not awarding it to the pitcher retro actively? >> no, and no. what do you do about the man that made the 28th out? does the pitcher get credit for that out or do you pretend it never happened? to all those hysterical about the outcome of the game, and they are more hysterical than the pitcher. who took this in good grace, i
say this. would you rather have had a 21st perfect game, and third in the month, by the way, or this wonderful example of sportsmanship and maturity? the pitcher taking it with good grace. the umpire being a model of manly responsibility. the tiger fans giving the umpire a standing ovation the next day, and jim leyland, more old school baseball man there is not in the world, sending the pitcher out with the lineup card to home plate and put his arm around the umpire. what would you rather have? the perfect is the enemy of the good. you drive for perfection in anything, in babe or anything else, you're going to destroy the rhythm of the game and the human element we love in a game. >> you're a cubs man, my condolences. are you torn on this? >> torn, the heart says, selig should have given the perfect game.
i was on mother's day in oakland, i witnessed at the stadium that perfect game. it was incredible. i think he would probably take the perfect game over the sportsmanship. the head says it would be a terrible slippery slope. to turn the commissioner's office into the supreme court of baseball. what happens in game seven if a disputed call causes the game to be called a certain way do you appeal? do you try to change the result of the game? you cannot do it. >> don larson in the world series. 1956. the 27th out made by dale mitchell. 119 strikeouts in 4,000 major league at-bats. the umpire, his last game by the way, called the strike three, it was a foot and half high and outside. he was so eager to get the game over. suppose the commissioner is sitting in the stands, does he said, back to the mound, back to the plate, we didn't like that call. >> we're running out of time. "the roundtable" discussion will continue in the green room.
on abcnews.com. you'll find our fact checks. still to come, the "sunday funnies." okay, one more time. where do we stand? less travel? more video conferences? limit the cell phone minutes. that's not good enough. we're not leaving this room unless we can cut something else. can they really keep us here? what about all this stuff? what stuff? all this stuff. what does it cost to create all this?
time, effort, people. how much? it could be millions. ♪ millions. [ male announcer ] save money. trust your business processes to xerox. xerox. ready for real business. and now, "in memoriam." >> success is not a destination. it's a journey. i believe those things. i believe the practice and the preparation to get there was the most important thing. ♪ i want to be kissed by you alone ♪
>> who was luke skywalker's father? >> trivial pursuit. 6,000 questions of no vital importance whatsoever. >> this week, the pentagon released the names of five solders and marines killed in iraq and afghanistan. we'll be right back. what will happen if your spouse outlives you by many years? what will happen if you outlive your savings? pacific life knows that tomorrow's questions require planning today.
pacific life has the financial solutions and strength to help you and your financial professional develop a plan. pacific life...the power to help you succeed. this is data. data generated by people moving through a city. people in cars, on trains, on buses. when you can see data as it happens, it can help cut commute times by 50%, reduce carbon emmissions by 14%. on a smarter planet, we can capture, analyze, and use data in new ways to do what they're doing in places like singapore and stockholm and build a smarter transportation system. let's build a smarter planet.
and now, "the sunday funnies." >> there's a heartbreaking subplot about the destruction of louisiana wildlife. like the kemp's ridly sea turtle. the eastern brown pelican and the albino bayou cobra. >> we're about to die down here. >> i'm not going to rest or be satisfied. until the leak is stopped. >> he'll be on this thing 24 hours a day after celebrating the ucon thrks championship. >> the president met with
arizona governor jan brewer. the governor surprised everyone in the meeting by having the president deported. >> a romantic moment at the white house yesterday. did you see paul mccartney? he sang michelle to michelle obama. then his other choice of songs, if i canning the hole, octopus' garden, yellow submarine. ♪ first resets everything. first moves us forward fast. ♪ we all want first. first isn't later. it's now. what will you do first with evo, the first 4g phone? only from sprint, the now network. deaf, hard-of-hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com.
their abc's. studies showhat good social and behavioral skills in young children lead to goodcademic performance in the first grade and beyond. nurturing hethy social and emotional devepmtn children sets them up for a lifetime of success. children's mental health matters -- -- becauset's more than just knowg thr abc's. wa to find out morabout how to help yourhiren learn, cialize, a grow? go to samhsa.gov/children to learn more about helping your lile ones succeed in school.