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tv   This Week With George Stephanopoulos  ABC  June 5, 2016 9:00am-10:00am EDT

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>> announcer: starting right now on "this week with george stephanopoulos" -- clinton lets loose. >> do we want his button anywhere near the button? >> straight out of her playbook. will the hits get even harder after the california vote. hillary clinton is here. trump doubles down? look at my african-american over here. >> he's a mexican. >> he's a sleaze in my book. >> refusing to change the way he handles the press. his opponents and his policies. how will that play with the voters? and his party. plus, the jobs bombshell that could upend the election. grover norquist and paul krugman square off on the economy and the 2016 race. and -- remembering the greatest of all time. >> i'm fast,
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can't possibly be beat. >> announcer: from abc news, it's "this week." here now chief anchor george stephanopoulos. good morning, the world is remembering muhammad ali this week. a legendary champ thanks to his fast hands, even faster mouth. i'm not the greatest, i'm the double greatest he said. it's hard to be humble when you're as great as i am. ali knew how to get inside his opponent's head. and all through the primaries donald trump showed he could do exactly the same thing with tough talk, taunts and labels that stuck. the big question for him now will those same tactics work in a general election? does trump have to change to win? in this week's latest round of the presidential fight trump declared he's not changing at all and hillary clinton is following his lead. this week, fists flew in the streets of san jose and donald trump combative as ever on the stump. >> is this what it's going to be like covering you if you're pr
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>> we're going to have this kind of confrontation in the press room. >> yeah, it is going to be like this. >> attacking the press. >> you're a sleaze. >> hillary. >> i watched hillary today. it was pathetic. >> even that federal judge. >> this judge is giving us unfair -- now i say why. well, i -- i'm building a wall, okay and it's a wall between mexico, not another country -- >> he's not from mexico. he's from indiana. >> his mex mexican heritage. >> to anyone who thought they would see a different donald trump in the general election, this definitive answer. >> you think i'm going to change? i'm not changing. >> late this week hillary clinton seemed to steal a page from the trump playbook. a volley of hard shots on trump university. >> he is trying to scam america the way he scammed all those people at trump u. >> those comments about the judge in the case. >> the judge is as much of an american as i am but he has mexican roots. so do donald trump. that means he can't do his job.
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self-promotion. >> it's all about him getting attention. it's all about him seeing his name in the newspaper and seeing his face on television. >> making the case he can't be commander in chief. >> this is not someone who should ever have the nuclear codes because it's not hard to imagine donald trump leading us into a war just because somebody got under his very thin skin. [ cheers and applause ] >> and secretary clinton joins us now, good morning, madam secretary. >> thank you, george. >> your supporters have been pretty fired up in the last couple of days as you've been taking it to donald trump and you also step it up using words like demagogue and dictator. have you concluded that the best way to beat donald trump is to be a bit more like him? >> no, not at all. i laid out in my speech in san diego the crux of my concerns and my case againstim
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foreign policy and national security and a lot of what he says plays into what i consider to be a very divisive and dangerous view of the world and i think it's important that we call it for what it is. >> you've also said that he's temperamentally unfit to be president and in that speech you said you'll life it to the psychiatrist to explain his affection for tyrants. are you suggesting he's mentally unstable? >> well, no, i'm suggesting exactly what i said. that he's temperamentally unfit. he doesn't really have ideas. he makes bizarre rants and engages in personal feuds and outright lies. he does apparently seem to have very thin skin and i think that those kind of attribute, that temperament is ill-suited for someone to be our president and commander in chief and he's already as i recited
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diego speech on record on so many issues that run counter to what democrats, republicans alike over many decades have thought was in america's interests in accordance with our values and that to me is cause for concern. >> what's the biggest danger coming from his temperament? >> i think he engages in so much scapegetting and finger-pointing and he is someone who doesn't tell the truth. he doesn't seem to be bothered by the constant inherent contradictions, i said that he said he would not mind having other countries have nuclear weapons including korea, japan, saudi arabia. he said he didn't. a lot of news outlets, of course, easily pulled up the
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his unpredictability, his putting everything in highly personal terms has rattled and that's the word president obama used. has rattled our closest allies, has caused a lot of serious concern around the world, because people are not used to seeing anyone, a republican or a democrat, running for president who is so loose with the truth, so divisive and so dismissive of very legitimate concerns about safety, security, our values and who we are as a nation. >> as you know he said several several times over the last few days he thinks you should be going to jail over the e-mail issues and on "face the nation" he's just given an interview where he said he would look at this when he becomes president. listen. >> i would have my attorney general look at it because everyone knows that she's guilty. now, i would say this, she's guilty but i would let my attorney general make that
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>> your response? >> well, it's a typical trumpism. and i don't have any response, you know, when he attacks me, i am not going to respond, but i think it is in keeping with his very vicious public attack against the judge, the federal judge who is hearing the case against so-called trump university, a judge who has an impeccable record as a prosecutor, who actually spent as i'm told nearly a year in hiding because of threats from criminal drug cartels against his life, who was appointed first by the republican governor of california, governor schwarzenegger, then appointed by a democratic president, president obama because of his extraordinary legal record. and what trump is doing is trying to divert attention from
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the very serious fraud charges against trump university that have basically been confirmed by some of the highest officials who worked with him. so, this is typical. he does have that thin skin and, you know, judge cureil is as american as i am and certainly as american as donald trump is and trump's continuing ethnic slurs age rans against everyone including a distinguished federal judge i think makes my point rather conclusively. >> madam secretary, on the e-mail issue as you know the state department inspector general was quite tough on your practices and it concluded i want to show it right here that secretary clinton had an obligation to discuss using her personal e-mail account to conduct official business with their offices, and according to these official, diplomatic security and the information resource management offices did not and would not approve her exclusive reliance on a personal meiles account to conduct department business be
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affairs manual and the security risk in doing so. do you know accept their conclusion that your exclusive use of a personal account was not allowed, that you broke state department rules? >> you know, look, george, i thought that the report actually made it clear that the practice i used was used by other secretaries, other high ranking state department officials. >> no one else had exclusive use -- >> if i had to -- if i had to do it over again i certainly wouldn't. but i think that the rules were not clarified until after i had left, because it had been the practice of others. there was certainly reason to believe which i did that what i practiced was in keeping with others' practices. >> but you were the only one who had exclusive use of a personal account. secretary powell did have a personal e-mail account, as well
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and they were very, very clear. >> you know -- >> go ahead. >> george, i have to tell you that, you know, i will say it was a mistake. i would not do it again. but i think that the rules were not clarified until after i had left and the first secretary of state to use a government e-mail accountas john kerry some months into his tenure. those are the facts. >> but the report -- so you don't accept the conclusion of the report because they say you were unmindful of the rules. >> everybody in the department knew that i was e-mailing from a personal address. hundreds of people knew it. people around the government knew it and, you know, that was what the practice had been and that's what i did, as well. >> so i'll take you don't accept their conclusion. just one other question on this. have you had any contact yet with the fbi, you or your agents over t
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>> i have not been asked to come in for an interview. i've said i am more than willing since last august and i would like to do that sooner instead of later and get this matter wrapped up and behind us. >> let's talk about the second amendment. as you know donald trump has been out on the stump talking about the second amendment saying you want 0 abolish the second amendment. specific question, do you believe an individual's right to bear arms is a constitutional right, that it's not linked to service in a militia? >> i think that for most of our history there was a nuanced reading of the second amendment until the decision by the late justice scalia and there was no argument until then that localities and states and the federal government had a right as we do with ery amendment to impose reasonable regulations so i believe we can have
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commonsense gun safety measures consistent with the second amendment and, in fact, what i have proposed is supported by 90% of the american people and more than 75% of responsible gun owners, so that is exactly what i think is constitutionally permissible and once again, you have donald trump just making outright fabrications accusing me of something that is absolutely untrue. but i'm going to continue to speak out for comprehensive background check, closing the gun show loophole, closing the online loophole, closing the so-called charleston loophole, reversing the bill that senator sanders voted for and i voted against giving immunity from liability to gunmakers and sellers. i think all of that can and should be done and it is in my view consistent with the constitution. >> and the decision also says there can be some restricts but that's not what i asked. do you believe their conclusion an individual's right to bear arms is
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>> if it is a constitutional right, then it like every other constitutional right is subject to reasonable regulations. and what people have done with that decision is to take it as far as they possibly can and reject what has been our history from the very beginning of the laws were about firerm as so i think it's important to rec advertise that ream people can say as i do responsible gun owners have a right, i have no objection to that, but the rest of the american public has a right to require certain kinds of regulatory, responsible actions to protect everyone else. >> how far would you go on that? back in 1993 i want to show it right here you actually came out in support a gun tax. let's listen. >> how d
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sales tax on handguns and on automatic weapons? >> i'm all for that. i just don't know what else we're going to do to try to figure out how to get some handle on this violence. we will look at your proposal and be happy to talk with you about it. i'm speaking personally but i feel very strongly about that. >> still believe that? >> what i was saying back then was that we have a lot of public health costs that taxpayers end up paying for through medicaid, medicare, through uncompensated care because that was in the context of the push for health care reform. and that we needed some way to try to defray those costs and i'm not going to commit to any specific proposal. i was speaking personally then. i would have to, you know, consider any proposal in
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the others that we want to continue to advocate for, particularly as i said, comprehensive background checks. but that was in the context of health care. when you have mass shootings, you not only have the terrible deaths, you have people that are injured. you know, i was just in san bernardino yesterday, and i met some of the survivors. one woman who was shot twice who's had a series of surgeries, two other women who were cowering in abject terror by the terrorists' unbelievable assault on their co-workers. what they talked to me about is where do they get the financial support to deal with both the physical and the emotional trauma? you know, is it workman's comp support which is one of the arguments? is it private insurance? is it because they worked for the county, something the county should pay
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there are real costs that people incur because of the terrible gun violence epidemic and we have to deal with it and i'm going to be looking for ways to deal with it. i'm not committed to anything other than what i've said in this campaign. but i do want people to ask themself, can't we do better than have 33,000 people killed every year by guns and many thousands more injured? and i think we can. >> finally madam secretary several more states voting on tuesday including california where you are right now. is this race against bernie sanders over, whether or not you win california on tuesday? >> well, i think if you look at the popular vote, if you look at the majority of pledge delegates i should have captured those by tuesday. but i'm going to keep fighting hard here in california and in the other stays that are voting on tuesday. because i want to get as strong a vote as i possibly can.
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in this race that i will have not only more than a 3 million-vote margin, but i will have a sigma majority of pledge delegates by the close of voting on tuesday. >> madam secretary, thanks for your time today. >> thank you. thank you so much, bye-bye. and when we come back the republican response from the chair of the senate foreign relations committee. he's advised donald trump. after a dismal jobs report how will the economy shape the race, paul krugman and grover norquist debate. it's brought to you by blackberry priv. shop now at blackberry.com. art . then we asked some older people when they actually did start saving. this gap between when we should start saving
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decision. maybe the worst decision ever in the history of our country. number two, getting out of iraq the way obama did it, he didn't have a clue. >> there's donald trump laying out his views on foreign policy last night. we'll talk about that with the chair of the senate foreign relations committee bob corker next. we're good. okay... what if a million people download the new app? we're good. five million? good. we scale on demand. hybrid infrastructure, boom. ok. what if 30 million people download the app? we're not good. we're total heroes. scale on demand with the number one company in cloud infrastructure. yourbut the omega-3s in fish oil differ from megared krill oil. unlike fish oil, megared is easily absorbed by your body. megared.
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he's challenging some of the status quo, if you will. it is causing these countries to -- to think a little bit differently about the u.s. and i say that in a positive way. we had a good conversation about those types of things. other foreign policy issues. >> that is the chair of the senate foreign relations mm
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meeting with donald trump last month. senator corker is a supporter of the republican nominee. thanks for joining us this morning. i want to talk about foreign policy but i have to begin with those attacks on judge curiel that got so much news this week. he says when he questions whether the judge can be fair because of his mexican heritage that is not racist. do you agree? s>> look, i don't condone the comments and we can press on to another topic. i think we have to move beyond that and i think he has a tremendous opportunity to disrupt the direction that washington is moving in and create tremendous opportunity and take advantage of that and i think he will. >> secretary clinton said that's one of the reasons she thinks he's temperamentally unfit and how he is loose with the truth and divisive and doesn't have any
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she made the case why he is not fit. can you make the affirmative case. why are you confident he'll be a good commander in chief? >> so i listened tthe speech and i heard a little bit of the interview in advance, george. my take on it is this, i think that her team feels that her service as secretary of state has made her incredibly vulnerable. i think you talked to her about some of the judgment issues she made in actually running the department but if you think back to the decisions made in 2011, they were really disastrous and she played a central role in really creating a home for where isis resides today. if you look at the libyan incursion which will be textbook case for what not to do in making foreign policy decisions, unbelievable decision. then you look at the precipitous leaving of iraq and then you look at encouraging the moderate opposition in syria and never following through, i
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vulnerable an i think that's why these attacks are being made. >> i understand that is your case against -- what is the affirmative case for donald trump? why are you competent he'll be a good commander in chief. >> he has an opportunity to transition. he's talking to people i respect greatly. secretary baker. dr. kissinger are people that two of the most -- the greatest foreign policy experts in our nation, so he's talking to the right people. and it's my hope that now that this primary decision -- process is over, it's like moving from the major leagues to the world series, it's my hope that he will transition into that phase. he has an opportunity to really change the trajectory of our country and it's my sense that he will take advantage of that. i hope that he will. but we'll have to see. >> he said this week he's not going to change.
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>> well, i think that he's going to have to change. and the fact is i'm not talking about him necessarily changing his views. but i think that he's now moving into a different phase. he's talking to the right people my sense is i spoke to dr. kissinger and baker before and after the meetings and he's asking all the right questions. tausching to people all around the country that are experts in this regard and i think they know that they're at a place where this campaign has to evolve. >> let's talk about -- >> let me go back and say, again -- >> go ahead. >> i think, again, if you go bark and look at secretary clinton, who had a professional relationship with, the fact is that she's already shown that her judgments relative to foreign policy have much to -- much lacking. she made
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that really created a home for isis today and i think -- i think that they are trying to obviously paint him as someone who is unstable, because they really realize the vulnerabilities that she has and the judgments that many in the past have made her that way. >> let's talk about his ideas. let's talk about his ideas. you are the chair of the senate foreign relations committee and said his call for a temporary ban on muslim immigration is not a serious proposal and michael hayden said this morning it's a recruiting tool for isis. if donald trump is president, moved to impose that ban wow support it or try to stop it? >> no, i would not support it and i've already issued statements to that effect and what i understand is he has stepped away from those statements. >> well, he has said he still supports those statements. he's also said in every speech he talks about building a wall on our
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to pay for it. is it realistic and what would it do to our relations with mexico. >> you foe, obviously we do need to have good relations with mexico and canada. we do. that's one of the things that makes our country in such a stable environment having two friends on our borders unlike many countries around the world. there is a security issue. i authored an amendment during the immigration debate that actually makes building a wall look like ned in the first reader meaning it was even more difficult and by the way a tougher security border measure. by the way, every democrat in the senate voted for that measure. so there's no question that we have agreement in our country that we need greater security. it's strongly bipartisan and i hope that we will implement that because it is a security threat. >> but is it realistic to expect mexico to pay for the wall. >> i think people agree with that -- what's that. >> is it realistic for people to expect mexico to pay for that wall? >> well,
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get into a debate about the nuances of that. i mean it's a statement that he has made. i thought this interview was going to be more about the foreign policy areasonna. i think he has a tremendous opportunity there. >> well, our relations with mexico is foreign policy. >> okay. well, look, as to how the wall is paid for, that's something that congress certainly will debate. my guess is there will be additional debates regarding how the actual security measures will be put in place but securing our border has been something that people on both sides of the aisle have supported for years an we need to do that and it's understandable that it's become an issue because it's lingered for so long. we had an opportunity to deal with this years ago. it wasn't dealt with. needs to be dealt with now. and hopefully we'll move beyond that very quickly. >> well, you're also on foreign policy. you're a 123r07k supporter of trade deals including the new
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transparkinson's partnership that he is opposed to and putting on 45% tariffs on them if they don't change the way they do business. is that something you could support? >> the fact is that, look, we were involved -- we are involved globalization, every person who picks up their iphone in the morning deals in globalization. the fact is that trade agreements set the rules of the road and sometimes we negotiate trade agreements that are good. some are not as good as they should be. the ttp program is something strategically for our nation is important to get right. there are flaws in it that need to be stiffened and so i hope that we'll move through that. i do believe that having a trade agreement that works for our country is important as we have countries that want to move our way. china is pushing them our way. it's my hope that we'll be able to negotiate something that works. the flaws
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been pointed out and things need resolved but having an agreement with country in the southeast asia area is important for our nation and i hope we'll get to a place where we have an agreement that americans can support if which specific ideas of donald trump on foreign policy are you enthusiastic about, are you ready to fight for? >> so, i think -- here's what i have seen in many of the statements that's made. it's something that secretary baker would -- it's a degree of realism coming back and our foreign policy. for years we've had neocons on the republican side. we've had liberal internationalists on the democratic side and i think bringing that maturity back into our foreign policy is something that's important. that doesn't mean us being isolationists but it does mean selective engagement and we've had some great hearings on this topic. it's bringing
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looking at our u.s. national interest realizing who our friends are, relationships, things like throwing aside mubarak so quickly after decades of relationship and not figuring out a better way for him to be eased out, the thing we did in libya, i mean, again, that was one of the most immature excursions. that will be used, george, again as an exhibit in international policy schools as to what not to do here in america. so i see a degree of maturity stepping in. i've obviously encouraged that. i want to see good things for our nation. george, i think the thing that has caused people to be tantalized if you will to a degree by the trump candidacy is they realize that the two parties acting as they are today will continue to enable each other to go
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degrading our nation's greatness. it is. and what they see in donald trump is a disrupter, someone who can change that trajectory. >> okay. >> it is up to him now. it is up to his campaign now. to take advantage of that, to pivot and move in a direction that shows that they have the ability to do that. i am hopeful that that is going to occur but they're at that point right now as they move beyond this, the primary process this week to the world series of the election and i'm hopeful that that is what -- >> senator corker, thanks very much. roundtable is up next plus president obama is talking up the economy this week. paul krugman and grover norquist standing by to debate the state of the economy and the candidate's proposals when we come back. >> announcer: "this week with george stephanopoulos" brought to you by carmax.
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we're going to be right back with our roundtable and later remembering a legend. >> too late. it's over. muhammad ali with an eighth round knockout recaptures the heavyweight championship of the world.
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we're back with our roundtable joined by our own matthew dowd, roland martin of news one now, e.j. dionne columnist in "the washington post" and sara fagen, cnbc contributor also. let me begin with you, matt. what a week. i think we say that just about every week and heard donald trump declared again and again this week he's not going to change and heard senator bob corker, republican, saying he's going to have to. who is right? >> i think -- believe donald trump when he says it because he hasn't changed in the course of this campaign. i'm fascinated by donald trump and very successful in all this but usually you see politicians grow as candidates or grow as leaders in the course of this. donald trump has stayed exactly the same he was when he came down the escalator and when he -- weather he is today, the exact same person saying the exact same things. been quite successful winning this, the republican nomination and the course of this is problematic if he doesn't grow as a candidate and grow as a leader for
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that will ultimately decide this election. >> sara? >> he hasn't grown as a candidate not only on the policy side but on the political side. i mean, think about the fact he spent five days in california over the course of the last two weeks. he's now the republican nominee. this general election is going to be decided in virginia, ohio and florida. and he is spending time in a state that he doesn't need to be spending time in unless he's raising money. >> he says he can win. >> well, the "los angeles times" had hillary clinton up over 20 points on donald trump. i don't think california is going to be a trump column. >> washington, d.c. now can smoke marijuana. republicans will need that in congress if he can continues to do what he's doing. at the end of the day what you have, a candidate who refuses to understand that people will now judge you based on stature. based upon how you present yourself. and when secretary clinton hits him saying about his temperament that simply raises more flags and when he -- what he's doing to this federal judge is beyond shameful. i don't
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will say, yeah, that's my guy. >> and you saw e.j. dionne, of course, republicans coming out saying they can't condone what he said about judge curiel but on the same day he's making those charges and the same day hillary clinton is giving that speech about his temperament, paul ryan, speaker of the house, endorses donald trump. >> you know, i think he may have picked the worst day of the year, some people speck slated he's getting in the way of hillary's speech. i think he had no idea how effective that would be or that the very next day ryan would have to say, oh, i'm for trump but i don't believe what he's doing with that judge. this was a real turning point week because hillary clinton's attack on trump laid out almost the entire case against him in detail. she was calm and she finally solved or at least she began solving the authenticity issue. she's not attacking bernie sanders, too much 0 cost to that but believes every word she said about donald trump because
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offends her notion of what a president looks like so i think that was a two-fer for her and the republicans knew it. it was shocking that trump had nothing ready in response to that speech. >> and it was shocking because there is a great case to be made against hillary clinton and her foreign policy. >> you heard bob corker making -- >> bob corker just did it. donald trump should have given that response to her speech instead of talking about this judge and attacking this judge and putting all republicans on t the defense. >> the death of muhammad ali. what did he do against sonny liston. he atalked a bully and when you attack a bully, what does sonny liston do, he quit. >> hillary clinton is not going to quit. >> republicans in the primary were afraid to go after the bully. they ran away from him. the smartest thing in the world is hit him and when he's saying she lied, nope, here are all the things you said. >> let me bring it to matthew dowd. one thing you're seeing and saw it in the bob corker interview and seen it from
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when they're asked about -- when asked about donald trump, they talk about hillary clinton. is he going to need people out there making the affirmative case for his candidacy. >> in any normal year, yes. but this is not a normal year in the course of this. i think part of the problem and i think this is evidence of it is most of the people voting for hillary clinton right now are voting because they don't want donald trump and most of the people voting for donald trump right now are voting for that because they don't wanthillary clinton so the negative -- hillary clinton will spend 80% of her time saying why not donald trump and donald trump will spend his time talking about hillary clinton. we have two candidates -- we talked about it before. it's as if somebody said you'll move in a house and get a roommate but it's someone you don't like and trust and you'll have to move in and live with that person. at some point the voters are like, i'm going to sleep in the car. that's the choice in this election. the biggest beneficiary this week from all the thing that is
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>> i think he and bill have an opportunity to get a high enough percentage to get in the debate. if they're in the debate they won't win the election -- >> who does that help and hurt? >> you know, in a normal election the libertarian candidates hurt the republicans. the question in this election, does the vote get high enough they start taking away votes from hillary clinton from people who really, really hate donald trump but can't quite get to her and the third party candidate and green candidate jill stein that we draw from the democrats, i think there is a risk here. here's the thing about what republicans couldn't do with trump that clinton can. there are arguments she can make about immigration republicans were afraid to make in the primaries and most frightening thing about her speech this optimistic reaganesque view of america. you know, quoting lincoln last best hope on earth, republicans have been selling an idea of decline for so long, that it wa
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argument she made in the primary because some republican, jeb bush, perhaps should have given the speech hillary clinton gave during the republican primary. >> i think he did. i don't think it didn't have the coverage that this speech obviously got but, look, donald trump does have some things going for him. you'll have a segment next on the economy and the economy is not good and that is usually very beneficial to the party out of power. he has record turnout. he has enthusiasm and wide enthusiasm gap among republicans in his favor. there are things going for trump but you're right. he has got to pivot -- >> roland, while he still has a divided party, hillary clinton had another victory in the virgin islands yesterday. will probably do well in puerto rico and have the pledge delegates she needs by 8 p.m. tuesday night so how does this end on the democratic side? is there a way to get bernie sanders out before the
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convention or is he in all the way. >> you need to go back to 1988. reverend jesse jackson and michael dukakis. jefrndz jackson has been trying to reach bernie sanders to have a conversation with him about how he should operate. when i interviewed reverend jackson on tv one he said how bernie behaves is critically important to what kind of leverage he has. remember, reverend -- that's how you got proportioned delegation and increase in superdelegates and how ron brown became chair. but his behavior and how he responds over the next couple of months will determine whether the party listens to him or not. 88 is the blueprint for him. >> i agree with roland on this. i think this is much more contingent on bernie sanders than hillary clinton. she has the math. she'll win the delegates. bernie sanders does not which he put himself in this place. he doesn't want to be the populist candidate in a rigged system that says i want a bunch of elites to overturn the ec
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the question he's got to ask himself does he want to be part of the democratic party like candidates in previous years like hillary clinton did in 2008 or does he want to leave and start -- push this movement outside the party. >> enl, what's the answer to that question? >> i think the answer is that if bernie sanders wants an effect at the long run he has to support -- sort supporting clinton. there are already bernie people out there saying, look, we know clinton will be the nominee and can't risk having donald trump as the president. if he does that i think he increases his influence in the party in the long run because he has built a big movement out there. >> you get the last word. >> her speech was important for two reasons not lone because she defined donald trump but gave bernie sanders the pathway to come to her side of the aisle and coalesce the democratic party. she laid it out well. >> more party outside than inside. next the jobs report and crucial debate on the ecom
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paul krugman squares off with grover norquist. that's next. america's economy is not just better than it was eight years ago. it is the strongest most durable economy in the world. [ cheers and applause ] >> president obama in elkhart, indiana but it took a bit of a hit with the job report. they hired at the
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in more than five years in may with just 38,000 jobs. 4.7% now. 10% in 2010. in 1995, medium household income $52,600. 20 years later just 2% higher, 2% raise in 20 years. today's debate can the next president do anything to turn it around? what's the state of the economy. paul krugman, nobel prize winner and grover norquist long-term president of americans for tax reform and, paul, let's begin with friday's jobs report. does it undercut the president's argument about the economy being so strong over the last -- >> i happen to have a chart which i made this morning which is gives you a little perspective. this is private sector jobs under obama and under his predecessor and this report is that little thing at the end there. that little sort of flatteni ii out. so the per speck
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verizon strike or the number would have been twice if we saw verizon -- >> 35,000 workers. >> that's right. even though so no question job growth is slowing. the economy is slowing. that happens. there's no particular explanation that, you know, i think it has a lot to do with bad missteps last year but that's bay the side. the question if the economy slows more, what can we do about it? the answer is, well, we know very well what to do, the problem is political. the question is will the next president if the next president is donald trump he'll send out a bunch of tweets to china and mexico. >> where are we on this? 660,000 people walked out of the workforce last month. not only with 38,000 people got jobs but 668,000 said we're not loofshging for work nimg. one challenge we had the obama recovery can so weak, the reagan recovery from the end of the see session to out the to years was 4%
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it's been 2% under obama. if we had grown at reagan rates and job creation 14.7 million more americans working. the reason why they're so happy why trump gets support, why sanders gets supports, the economy sucks. it's not cheerful, 14.5 million more people would be at work. fathers, mother, sisters, brothers with jobs. they don't have jobs. >> what's trump's answer. >> i'm happy with his tax plan, step one we'll take business taxes both corporations and people who drive uber, independent contractor, 15% tax. not 35% corporate rate which is 10% higher than the european average, stupider than france not where you want to be in corporate. that's an extremely good step in the right direction and competing with hillary clinton who outlined six major taxes three of which cost a trillion dollar gls kind of pathetic that we're still saying, oh, look at
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reagan. we had a republican president before "gma" who controlled congress anticipate got everything he wanted on economic policy and obama is out before him. >> we disagree on each of those points. >> okay. >> we go to reagan because he had reagan policies. >> anyway, the point is that the recovery has been disappointing, i will admit that but it's been disappointing largely because we have had incredible cutbacks in public employment, public spending which obama didn't control. and the way forward is not more tax cuts for the rich which haven't worked in kansas. hasn't -- have never been shown to do what they do. what we need is a big infrastructure build. that would make total sense given extremely low borrowing costs and need it and the job -- >> that's not going to happen. >> donald trump agrees with that. the question, how to pay for it. >> well, and will the house support it? >> the argument is growth. but we had $800 billion thrown at this issue and we were told that would create jobs and none of the jobs they said would happen the economy
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built up, $800 for the stimulus package. that policy doesn't work. it's not going to work if you have pro-growth policies and talk about states, look at taxes, north carolina where they're reducing taxes and spending. kansas has a challenge where the supreme court tells them they have to spend money then people say you cut tacks too much. the supreme court demanding, so, but look at the states with higher tax, illinois versus states like texas without and you see different job creation. >> the point is we know extremely well what to do. we know exactly what is needed and the problem is the people -- the ideology that grover is giving is what stands in the way. the fact you'll have complete rigid adherence and nothing has changed. >> reagan created more jobs and -- >> got to go back 35 years to a completely different situation. we had bush, got all this stuff, none of it delivered and it's
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>> well, no, he is a significant spending increases in the last two years of his administration. democrats did the budget, not republicans so looking at a number of challenges and didn't have a supply side to economics like trump is looking at. he's also talking about regulation. >> trump is completely -- yeah, trump is completely incoherent on nick policy. you can find him supporting almost anything. he said he wanted to maybe raise taxes on the rich then cut them. to actually try to suss out what he means is -- >> it's written down and i think the proposal that he has getting r rid of the death tax and take corporate and business takes to 15%, he's actually going to be a great advantage to the gig economy, 1099 economy, the sharing economy which hillary clinton is actually bared her teeth at and said she's going to crack down on independent contractors that make uber and
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hillary is on the wrong side of the future and gig economy, the economy and trump has a tax plan? that's all we have time for. thank you both very much. up next ail weekend long we've been celebrating the greatest of all time. tributes for muhammad ali pouring in from all over the globe and end with the personal
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thomas. >> ali, beautiful. that smile. that twinkle of mischief radiating from his eyes. brash. >> i'm handsome, i'm fast. i'm pretty and can't possibly be beat. >> so powerful, so graceful. and so crafty. >> ali is sneaking right hand. >> we all remember him outfokting the tighten george foreman. tricking himself into pumping himself into exhaustion. champion again. so much sweeter because we knew his history. principled. refusing to fight in the vietnam war at a time when his native country still struggled with issues of equality and poverty. >> you want me to go somewhere and fight but you won't even stand up for me here at home. >> as playful as he was controversial. >> i'm amazed you famous enough. >> i can remember him teasing the great howard cosell even playing with the man's toupee.
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laugh out loud. but human. not a perfect man but at one point rejecting integration. at times cruel to his opponents. when he said he would fight a gorilla in manila i could not believe such a champion for justice could say that about another black man with all the ugly symbolism. yes, human, not perfect. yet, subject to growth and redemption. a champion who first inspired his own people and eventually the world to be unafraid, proud defiant. evolving to become a symbol of love and peace. even as he fought a disease that took so much of the physical and verbal poetry we so revered. unsteady yet still graceful. parkinson's tried to silence ali but never really did. he won. an example of the indomitable human spirit. he was the greatest. >> thanks to pierre for that and
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americans who serve and sacrifice. in the last four weeks two service members died overseas supporting operations in iraq. >> and that is all for us today. thanks for sharing part of your sunday today. check out "world news tonight." i'll see you tomorrow on "gma."
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[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ sharyl: welcome to "full measure." i'm sharyl attkisson. hospitals can be dangerous places. it's estimated up to 440,000 americans a year die from preventable hospital errors, the third leading cause of death in the u.s. that risk can be exacerbated by doctors who are tired and more prone to mistakes. so why are some in the medical community pushing hard to work doctors on longer, more brutal shifts? we begin today with a controversial study going on

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