tv This Week With George Stephanopoulos ABC December 20, 2015 12:00pm-1:00pm EST
>> announcer: starting right now on abc's "this week" -- debate night showdown. the key moments from the final face-off of 2015. >> i apologize to secretary clinton. >> should corporate america love hillary clinton? >> everybody should. >> let's calm down a little bit, martin. >> let's tell the truth, martin. >> announcer: just hours after the democrats dueled, we're with the man in the line of fire. >> donald trump. >> donald trump. >> bringing donald trump back into it. >> reporter: gop front-runner donald trump responds.
enough to change the race? and new jersey governor chris christie betting it all on new hampshire. donald trump, bernie sanders, chris christie, all here live. >> announcer: from abc news, a special edition of "this week," live from manchester, new hampshire. here now, chief anchor george stephanopoulos. good morning, from new hampshire. we're live from the first primary state this week, here inside the debate hall at anselm college, last night. it's the last debate of the also the feisty iest. they clashed on taxes, gun control. on isis and protect our home land. donald trump, the only gop candidate mentioned last night. mr. trump joins us live this morning. bernie sanders and chris christie will be here, too. but we begin with the big moments from last night with jon >> reporter: good morning, george.
democratic race was engulfed with allegations that the sanders' campaign stole voter data from hillary clinton's campaign. bernie sanders offered a quick apology. before they turned their attention to neutral enemy -- donald trump. last night's debate started with a surprise -- a mea culpa from bernie sanders. >> not only do i apologize to secretary clinton i want to apologize to my supporters. this is not the type of campaign i run. >> i very much appreciate that comment, bernie, we should move on because i don't think the american people are all that interested in this. >> reporter: throughout the night, clinton and sanders sparred on foreign policy. >> if the united states does not lead, there is not another leader. there is a vacuum. >> the united states is not the policemen of the world, the united states must not be involved in perpetual warfare in the middle east. >> reporter: and on the economy and wall street. >> should corporate america love
>> everybody should. >> and will corporate america love a president sanders? >> no, i don't think they won't. ceo of large multinationals, may like hillary, they're not going to like me. and wall street is going to like me even less. >> reporter: martin o'malley called out both sanders and clinton on gun control. >> senator sanders voted against research dollars against this public health issue. we need common sense gun safety -- >> let's calm down a little bit, martin. do not tell me i haven't shown courage in standing up to the gun people. >> reporter: and all three trained their fire on one man -- gop front-runner donald trump. >> we must never surrender our american values to racists, to the fascist pleas of billionaires with big mouths.
answer -- that all of the mexicans, they're criminals and rapists. all of the muslims are terrorists. recruiter, they're going to people showing videos of donald trump insulting islam and muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists. >> reporter: as you heard an explosive allegation from hillary clinton against donald trump saying that isis is showing videos of trump to recruit potential new jihadists. we asked the clinton campaign where they got that from, they have not offered any direct evidence that has happened. donald trump tweeted overnight, simply, hillary clinton lied. >> okay, jon karl, thanks very much. let's talk to mr. trump right now. we saw that tweet, mr. trump. are you going to stand by it? >> of course i'm standing by it. it was vetted. fox news went out in great
they may make one up knowing the clintons and knowing hillary. she made it up. it was a sound bite. just like bernie sanders lied. he went out and said things that never took place. i never said that about mexicans. i have great relationships with the hispanics. i didn't say what he said. they make up things in the world of politics. they're all talk no action. they're politicians. >> you sure you want to go down that road, the fact-checkers have called you out on false statements on any other candidate? >> i'll go down that road. many of the things that i have said, i think about all of them, they have been controversial at one point, george, but they're not controversial in the end because people start to say, trump is actually right, you go into illegal immigration, everyone now is coming my way. i have been 100% right as far as crime is concerned, as far as the economy is concerned. i have been right more than anybody else by a big factor.
video of those people cheering in new jersey on 9/11. >> i have come up with plenty. there were many other stories written. a lot of people -- thousands of people have been calling and writing and e-mailing, many people saw it, and it was in new jersey and it was also all over the world. george, there's an obvious problem. because all over the world, and you're not even disputing that, people were celebrating all over the world. >> there were people in west bank, not in new jersey. >> of course, there were. george, there were articles written about it, people celebrating. the famous washington post article that he tried to retract, don't tell me that, no reason to apologize, there were people celebrating. when the world trade center -- there were people celebrating.
let's move on to vladimir putin, you got that praise from vladimir putin. you called it a great honor. he backs our adversaries, like iran and he invades ukraine. >> i have been an extremely successful dealmaker. i know people, because deals are people. i think i'll get along for the good of our country, this is what i want -- make america great again -- i believe i'll get along fine with putin and other leaders. obama doesn't get along with putin. putin can't stand our president, and it's causing us difficulty, and frankly, and i said it a long time ago, if russia wants to bomb the hell out of isis and join us in that effort, i'm fine with that. i think that's an asset not a liability. if putin respects me and if putin wants to call me brilliant and other things that he said that were frankly very nice, i'll accept that and i'll accept
if we get along well with russia that's a positive thing not a negative thing. >> you want to get along well with putin, you seem to be alienating our allies. you said that angela merkel is ruining germany and here's what david cameron had to say about your proposal to ban muslims. >> i think donald trump's remarks are divisive, stupid and wrong. >> is it wise to be praising our adversaries and alienating our allies? >> george, i know you're having fun. and so am i, if you want to know the truth. the fact is, we have a problem, george, you don't have to admit it, because you want to be politically correct all the time, you don't have to admit it. we have the problem and the problem is a very serious problem, you have radicalization of people that happen to be islamic and you have the radical
our president doesn't even want to mention, he doesn't want to use those three words and because he's not mentioning it we're never going to solve it. unless you know what the problem is you can't solve it. so, we have a serious, serious problem, where you look at what happened in california last week, you look at people flying airplanes into the world trade center, you look at many other things that have been happening not only in this country but around the world, including in paris, there's a problem that you have to address. if you don't address it, the problem is just going to worse and worse. people now what was going on in california. other people, outsiders, friends of theirs, knew what was going on in paris. they didn't turn them in. >> they should turn them in. i agree with you. >> with attitudes like yours,
along, we have to solve a very serious problem, and if you don't want to talk about it, that's your problem not mine. >> one final question on vladimir putin, when you were pressed about his killing of journalists you said, our country does plenty of killing. >> i think hillary clinton when she was secretary of state made some horrible, horrible decisions, and thousands and thousands and even hundreds of thousands of people have been killed. you look at what what went on in libya. decisions she made -- >> that's not killing by the united states government, though, is it? that's not the same as ordering a killing. concerned, obviously, i don't want that to happen. i think it's horrible, but in all fairness to putin, you're saying he killed people, i haven't seen that. have you been able to prove that? do you know the names of reporters that he's killed? because i -- you have been
i haven't seen the name. now, i think it was despicable if that took place. but i haven't seen any evidence that he killed anybody in materials of reporters. >> here's what mitt romney tweeted, there's an important distinction here, thug putin kills journalists and opponents, our presidents kill terrorists and enemy combatants. >> does he know for a fact that he kills reporters? it's possible that he does. i don't think it's been proven. has anybody proven that he's killed reporters? -- >> there have been many allegations -- >> sure, there are allegations. i have read those allegations over the years. but nobody's proven that he's killed anybody. as far as i'm concerned. >> so, what killing has the united states government done? >> excuse me, george, let me finish. if he has killed reporters, that's terrible. it's never been proven that he's
you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, at least in our country. he's not proven that he's killed reporters. >> but, then, you said, i think our country does plenty of killing, too, what killing are you talking about that? >> take a look at what we're doing in the middle east. we went into iraq, we shouldn't have. i was opposed of going into iraq in 2003/2004. there were headlines in reuters, trump is opposed to the war. because you'll destabilize the middle east and iran will take over. very simple, iran will take over iraq. that's exactly what's happened. on top of that, we have isis. which is another problem and another complicating factor. into iraq. when we left, we made a mistake. we made a big mistake with libya, we destabilized all of these places. we now have a migration with thousands and hundreds of
people that don't know where they're going. it's a terrible thing. we have been run by incompetent that's probably why i'm leading so high in the polls. because people are tired of seeing very, very stupid and very, very incompetent people of ground. in the meantime, we owe trillion. we better get our act together fast because our country is going down if we don't. >> your comments seem to suggest a moral equivalence of united states to russia. is that what you believe? >> i'm not saying anything. when you say a man has killed reporters i'd like you to prove it. i have never seen any information or any proof that he killed reporters, george, you're just saying, he killed reporters. you and other people tell me he killed reporters. i don't know that. i haven't seen it.
it's horrible. but you're making these accusations, and i don't see any proof. by the way, he totally denied that he killed reporters. >> i'm still waiting for ed that we have been directly involve ed involved in killing people as well. >> take a look at -- excuse me, take a look at the rampage all over the place. we spent $2 trillion, okay, thousands of hundreds of people killed, we have lost thousands and thousands of our great young people soldiers. 2 trillion deaths, wounded warriors, we have nothing, and with the second largest oil reserves in the world. i said when you got out, take the oil. i have been saying that for four we were so incompetent, we didn't get the oil. isis got a lot of the oil. now, iran is taking the rest of it. they're getting the lion share,
doing. we're run by people that don't have a clue. >> and iran has been backed by vladimir putin. final question about iowa, "the new york times" has a story -- this morning. >> excuse me, iran has been backed by us. you know why, because we made one of the dumbest deals in the history of dealmaking when we gave them a $150 billion, we have 24-day inspections which don't start for a long time. they can self-inspect, and we don't get our prisoners back. we let iran become, it's a terror nation, and we let iran become very powerful. by the way, they don't need to create nuclear because they're now so rich they go out and buy it directly. so, we're the ones that have really empowered iran not russia.
of a deal, we're are the ones that truly empowered iran. it's a disgrace. >> we've empowered iran more than russia has? >> george, we just made one of the worst deals i have ever seen in dealmaking. i'm not talking between nations. we don't even get our prisoners back, and now after the deal is made, they want to start talking as a new deal to get our prisoners back and they want a lot for the prisoners, for the four prisoners. >> russia is part of that deal as well. >> hey, you know why, because russia is making a lot of money with the deal, because they're selling missiles and other military armaments to iran. because they're smart. you know what we're getting from that deal? nothing.
the deal because russia's selling armaments, and beautiful new, modern missiles. they're selling them to iran because our people don't know what they're doing. of course, russia wanted that deal to be made because they're making -- russia is a negotiator with us at the table. russia wanted iran to make that deal. because they wanted iran to have a lot of money so that russia could take some of that money away from iran because russia is selling them tremendous numbers of missiles and armaments. so, russia, if i was russia i would have wanted that deal done, too, the money by the united states run by incompetent, given to iran, lot of that money is going to russia and other countries to buy armaments. >> i do that. i'm afraid that's all the time we have time for. thank you, mr. trump.
we're just getting started from here in new hampshire. bernie sanders is up next. we'll hear from the clinton camp, too. and chris christie joins us live. >> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos brought to you by abreva. right when you feel a cold sore, abreva can heal it in as few as two and a half days when used at the first sign. without it the virus spreads from cell to cell. only abreva penetrates deep and starts to work immediately to block the virus and protect healthy cells. you could heal your cold sore, fast, as fast as two and a half days when used at the first sign. learn how abreva starts to work immediately at abreva.com don't tough it out, knock it out, fast. with abreva. this is a story about doers, the artificial heart, electric guitars and rockets to the moon. it's the story of america- land of the doers. doin' it. did it. done. doers built this country. the dams and the railroads. john henry was a steel drivin' man hmm, catchy. they built the golden gates and the empire states. and all this doin' takes energy -no matter who's doin'. there's all kinds of
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my supporters. that we have and if i find anybody else involved in this, >> opening moments last night joins us live here in new hampshire this morning. i want to get to that in a first, you just heard donald trump called you out, saying you lied. >> i tell you, he's rather extraordinary. i think, and i say this straightforwardly, i think you have a pathological liar right there. most of what he says is a distortion of facts. he's saying over and over again that he saw thousands of people in new jersey celebrating 9/11 the destruction of the twin towers, either that's true or or not true. from what i understand, there's have been a lot of research, they archive what goes on tv. you're a tv guy, everything we are saying is going to be archived. nobody has seen a tape of thousands of people
the twin towers in new jersey. it doesn't exist, and he keeps claiming that. that's called pathologically lying. yes, a few moments ago, he accused me of lying. what i said last night he suggested that mexicans who are coming to this country are criminals and rapists, that's exactly what he said. what somebody like a donald trump is doing is playing on the fears and anxieties of the american people and people are afraid. they're afraid of terrorism, rightfully so. they're anxious about an economy in which the middle class is disappearing. people are worried about the future for their kids. these are legitimate fears. so, instead of having a rational discussion about how we rebuild wall street, what trump is, it's all the muslims' fault. >> how do you explain why that's doing so well right now? >> because it's an easy solution.
class? well, you're going to have to stand up to corporate america. you're going to have to stand up to wall street. by rebuilding our infrastructure. you'll have to provide health care to all people. what trump says, this is what demagogues have done. are you nervous, are you scared, frightened for terrorism. it's the muslims out there are terrorists. we have stop them coming into this country. it's the mexicans, it's the immigrants who are coming in. they're all rapists and criminals. meanwhile, trump is saying the middle wage in america, $7.25, he said it's good that we have a low minimum wage. this guy trump is saying, we need to give billions of dollars of tax breaks to the very richest people in this country. >> how do you defeat that? >> by going out to the working
making it clear, if we're going to create an economy that works for our kids and for working families, we have to do it together. and understand the real causes. the greed of corporate america. the greed of wall street. not some poor mexican who's in this country trying to live on $7 a country. >> i want to ask you about that moment about the apology on the bat that breach by one of your staffers. you suspended two more staffers. is that it, is the discipline finished? >> we're still trying to figure out. one thing that bothered me, as i understand it, the dnc has been giving out information to the media, giving out before the clinton campaign before we're even getting it. this is not the first breach caused by a dnc vendor, all and what i want to see is an independent investigation going
>> you sals said last night that you're not convinced that the clinton team didn't take a look at the data, do you have evidence of that? >> no. the first time it happened and when my staff saw it, they said, wait, this is really bad. they went to the dnc and went to the vendor. second time, one or more of my staff acted inappropriately. i want an independent investigation. i'm saying it's absolutely a possibility. >> your campaign has been pretty tough on the dnc. said that they're actively trying to undermine our campaign, even sabotage, is that >> look, a staff member or more on my team acted inappropriately. we're going to deal with that. but, to shut off access to my campaign's information, what word would you use?
we -- those are the people we're we for two days couldn't access that information. what should have been done, between the teams, quietly, we got a problem, how are we going not leaking stuff to "the washington post." and certainly not separating us the information we need to run a campaign. >> big difference between you and secretary clinton last night on the issue of taxes, she made a pledge of not raising taxes. you talked about the tax to pay for the family leave bill. you said it was about $1.61 for a family each week. that's not it. how are you going to pay for the rest of it? we're going to provide free tuition to public colleges and universities. by imposing a tax on wall street speculation. that tax will pay completely for public tuition at public colleges and universities and substantially lower interest rates on student debt.
crumbling infrastructure. through a trillion-dollar investment to create jobs by doing aaway with the loopholes that currently exist by which corporations can stash their money in cayman islands. we're going to raise social security benefits, expand benefits by lifting the cap on taxable income going into social security. people making $250,000 a year or more will pay the same percentage of their income. >> still have to pay health care? >> no, that will expand social security benefits for people who are trying to live on $12,000 or $13,000 a year. but in terms of this -- the united states is the only major country on the earth doesn't have paid family and medical leave act. it's a disgrace. every other country on earth has paid family and medical leave.
introduced in the house and the senate, which has all progressive democrats onboard, it will cost a $1.61 a week. >> is that it? no other tax increases on the middle class? >> that's it. >> final question on the regime change, the big difference you said last night between you and secretary clinton, but where is the difference going forward? >> i don't agree with the no-fly zone in syria, i think it can get us sucked into some serious problems in the area. i think absolutely there has to be a strong international coalition -- and this is what i believe -- king abdullah of jordan has made this point, the war that's going on is for the soul of islam, what he believes and i believe -- countries have to come together on the ground to take on isis.
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and we're back here live in new hampshire. joining us now governor chris christie, you're moving up in the polls. we got a lot to talk about. i know it's not your favorite subject, but i got to begin with donald trump. you heard bernie sanders call him a pathological liar. your response to what he said this morning? >> listen, there's a lot he said this morning. i will just say this, one, i was in new jersey on september 11th and thousands of people simply were not celebrating in jersey city. the former state attorney general closely watching this, a republican, back in 2001, said it's not true. secondly, on putin, i'll say the same thing that i said yesterday, i wouldn't want the endorsement. >> you have also said we're already in world war iii. you said what are the implications of that right now and you have also said that if donald trump gets the
with him as commander-in-chief, are you really comfortable with him as commander in chief in a world war ii three? >> more comfortable than secretary clinton. she said last night, we're finally where we need to be on isis. >> we're not? >> oh, my gosh. with dead bodies in paris. with dead bodies in san bernardino. with no plan by this administration on how to deal with this. we're finally where we need to be? mrs. clinton is mrs. happy talk. she wants to happy talk her way to the presidency. she's the personification of this administration. are you going to believe me or your lying eyes? i mean so, the fact is that's not where we need to be. >> you called for a no-fly zone, big difference, you're willing to put ground troops on the ground in iraq, in syria? >> well, yeah, that's one of the big differences. listen, this is the woman who last night refused to answer the question about libya. now, this was her strategy and
asked her -- martha rather asked her about the responsibility she bears in libya, she refused to answer it. she bears a lot. if libya was a shining success and was a democracy, mrs. clinton would be dancing around the stage talking about how it was her idea and she recommended it to the president. just like the president saying he wants to close guantanamo. when 30% now by his own analysis, 30% of people he released from guantanamo have gone back into the terrorist fight against the united states, how can you possibly think about closing guantanamo? this is this tone-deaf administration. a guy ie uy yesterday who said he doesn't understand the anxieties of american. >> going forward, are you sure americans are ready to accept another u.s. intervention, ground troops in the middle east? >> no, i'm not sure.
president of the united states to make the case. if you believe that's where the country needs to go, then you have a responsibility -- excuse me, you have a responsibility to make the case to the american people. that's what i'll do when i'm president. >> sanders made the argument it has to be the muslim troops taking a lead on the ground. >> i don't disagree with that. we need to be a part of it and so the europeans. because the threat from isis is not just to us but to the muslim countries and to the europeans. and as the jordanian pilot that was burned in the cage, king abdullah knows that it's to his people as well. >> you have been moving up in new hampshire. a super pac aligned with john kasich is running this ad right now. >> tonight, our very basic and have been agreed to by all three
the point is you're making, your state is in deficit. his state is in surplus. >> my state is not in deficit. that's wrong. in fact, what our state has done over the course of last six years, created thousands of private sector jobs. and this year, 2015 is the best year of private sector job growth in new jersey in 15 years. >> your credit has also been downgraded several times? >> sure has. you know why, i'm cleaning up the mess indiana hernted and honestly. listen, they want to have a debate about the new jersey record, bring it on, i'm ready to have it. >> rand paul is ready to have that debate as well. i think we have the sound bite. >> we sabotaged all of these video clips, george. another data breach. bernie sanders helped me. it was fabulous. >> in the debate tuesday night. >> i think when we think about the judgment about world war
bridge because they don't like their friends. >> donald trump has been talking about this as well. do you think you'll be able to deal with this issue if you start to do better in new hampshire? >> there is no issue. that was commentary from a desperate candidate on the last legs of his campaign. he was flailing away at everyone on that stage. he reminded me of bobby jindal in the undercard debate in the last debate. >> you're betting it all on new hampshire right now. but what about after, you know, a lot of your opponents have said you don't have much of an organization in south carolina? how do you capitalize? even if you do well here. >> no one was saying that three months ago. no one was worried about that. here's what happened,
campaign and momentum will carry us in the other states as well. you have seen this happen time and time again in presidential politics. what happens in iowa and new hampshire helps to reconfigure the race. if the communications director's biggest problem is, how do i hire more people? i think we'll accept that problem. >> that's all the time we have for today. governor christie, thank you for joining this morning. and we'll be right back with a representative of the clinton
we're back now with jennifer palmieri. the clinton campaign communications director of the clinton campaign. we have to begin with secretary clinton giving it to the republican candidates last night. your response to donald trump this morning? >> you know, donald trump i think was talking -- what secretary clinton was saying last night, one of the many dangerous things about donald trump is that his hot rhetoric saying we shouldn't allow muslim refugees is being used -- an international group that monitors social media on isis -- >> but there have been no videos. >> what they have said, they're using him, he's being used in social media by isis as propaganda. don't have a particular video in
social media. what they haven't found is a video that you know mr. trump keeps talking about this alleged mystery video of thousands of people in new jersey cheering the collapse of the world trade center. it's true he's being used in social media by isis. >> but to be fair you don't have a video -- >> to help recruiting. i'm not referring to a specific video. but he is being used in social media by isis. an international group, they monitor isis on social media. they monitor other terrorist groups on social media to see what they are using. and they say they are using him as propaganda to help recruit supporters. >> how about comments by christie? we're finally where we need to be on isis. >> so, she wasn't saying where in the last three weeks, she's given two major foreign policy
how to defeat isis globally and how to protect the homeland. she was very clear last night that we have to defeat isis. what she was referring to, we're in a much better position to deal with syria and the political transition that we hope to see there from the u.n. security council voting on friday. to start a new process on political transition there. that's what she's referring to. and that's a really important development there. we're able to have that process go forward in syria. you got to do both things at once, deal with what's happening on the ground in syria and come together on a peace on the ground. >> the data breach issue, is it over? >> senator sanders was gracious, i thought hillary was gracious, she appreciated the apology. what happened. it's a very serious matter.
be an independent audit of it. but i don't think we should discount what happened here. they went in, took data, they tried to save it. it's proprietary data. stuff that our volunteers and our campaign worked very hard to create. >> you're sure the clinton campaign didn't do the same thing? >> yes, we're absolutely sure. a time where everyone, the network was open but it was clear that neither campaign did anything to try to breach that. we never did that. >> on the issue of taxes last night, secretary clinon said, as a pledge, no tax increases under $250,000. when she was on my program a couple of two weeks ago, that was her goal. >> she said we don't need -- this is not at the expense of a robust agenda to help the middle class. she has a very robust agenda. but she has other ways of paying for it.
fun. now, this is getting to be fun. >> this is fun. we believe secretary clinton will be coming around the corner at any minute. >> sorry. >> you're the one we have to follow this rule, break it off. >> but the rule includes, people -- all right. >> thank
you, good night, and may the force be with you. >> some of the lighter moments from last night's debate here with our roundtable joined by cokie roberts, donna brazile, democratic strategist also abc contributor, and ana navarro, supporter of jeb bush. and matthew dowd. let's talk about the debate first off, ana, you're from the republican perspective, what did you see last night,
>> it's hard to tell who won. in the last debate, i think hillary clinton did a wall street answer was a big faux pas. with democratic primary voters. yesterday, she had three problems. last night, she claimed that donald trump was -- there was a donald trump video out there that no one has ever seen for the recruitment of isis. you know, i'm not sure that secretary clinton should go out there talking about videos that do not exist. second of all, i think when she called the problems with obamacare glitches. i think that's going to come back to haunt her. when she made the comment about being where we need to be in fighting against isis. >> but i think, look, we're in what i call the last phase of the campaign when you basically tell all the staff at headquarters, it's time to go to
she has to do well in iowa in order to beat back a very strong grassroots campaign by bernie sanders. she did herself very well last night. once again, she was able to respond to all of the attacks and take on the gop front-runner. >> everybody wanted donald trump last night? >> yeah, exactly. everybody was after him. it serves dual purposes. its helps donald trump. in the course of today, we'll be talking more about donald trump had to say about iran and putin than the democratic debate. but it also helps the democrats. because he has horribly favorable numbers. he's the leading candidate. i think all of the democrats should have been happy about last night. they all brought their a-game in the course of that. hillary clinton is still the dominant force in this. but i think bernie sanders does have an outside shot.
it doesn't go anywhere. >> wait, if you win iowa and new hampshire -- >> but, then still, then what? you still have a 74-year-old democratic socialist who is too far to the left to win a general election. and so what you have to figure out is, if he's going to be winning the democratic nomination, is there somebody else? >> i actually don't think he's far to the left to win. in the course of america today, there's no conservatives left in the democratic party and there's no liberals left in the republican party at all. and if bernie sanders happens to win it, which i think is very difficult, he could beat somebody like donald trump if donald trump is the nominee. >> let me tell you, i was at the vegas debate on tuesday, and from what i heard yesterday -- bernie sanders sounded a lot like ted cruz and rand paul like me and hillary clinton sounded like lindsey
she's more hawkish and more to the right. i think you're seeing a lib trainer spectrum in the republican party. >> you definitely you're seeing that right now. how about that point cokie was just making. even if bernie sanders can't go all the way, you have a seriously wounded front-runner. if that's the case. hillary has to win iowa. >> well, look, i think so. she lost it before by a very small percentage point. in terms of john edwards. but i think she has to win it. she's poised to win it because she's been there, she's been organized and she has great people on the ground. but you know, beyond iowa and new hampshire, she has south carolina and nevada, she's strong there. i got to tell you something about matt dowd -- who's been doing a bromance also with donald trump -- >> no, i'm not doing any bromance with donald trump. i just look at the data. >> i understand it's about the numbers. but donald trump is selling
when i listen to him this morning, maybe i haven't been to church yet today, he's selling attitude, he's not selling substance. i think the republicans are going to flame out soon. ted cruz who's driving a very strong campaign, ted cruz is somebody that the republicans need to watch. >> i agree with you. i think he's been calculated. he stroked donald trump's ego until he stopped. you know, very recently. >> but your candidate, now, jeb bush is basically making his campaign here in new hampshire taking on donald trump, can that work? >> thank god, i think jeb has to focus new hampshire. we're seeing it's paying off for chris christie. new hampshire likes for new hampshire to be number one and the priority. this is a state where jeb bush can be competitive. you got a kasich and a chris christie who are in the race -- >> the problem jeb has, he's a very decent man, he's a great leader and governor of florida.
party anymore. the republican party, the mainstream of the republican party is represented by ted cruz and donald trump. when you take a look at their stands on immigrants and muslims, exactly the same. when you take a look at that, jeb bush doesn't fit the republican party of 2015. >> hold on. >> it shows him being tough and that's what he has to show. you know, trump has really shaped the narrative. so, for instance, in the new hampshire paper this morning, the headline is, "bush brings energy to town hall," that's all trump has been saying about him. for him to take on trump and be tough and see what happens. >> actually, cokie, the only person that has the guts and showed it to do it publicly is jeb bush. >> bobby jindal did it. rick perry did it. >> right, but they're no longer relevant.
high unfaves attacking a guy with high faves -- lee atwater, someone who can go after donald trump's strength. i mean, that's the problem. you hit him at his weakness. >> what does that mean exactly? bloviator, bully. you need someone to go after that. if you're not going to do that, donald trump can come back and say -- absolutely, you cannot do that's right. >> not for a long time. i think people have recognized there's real angst in the republican base and in the country. >> we talked about the what ifs if hillary loses iowa. what if trump gets beat in iowa? does that matter and does he stop winning when he loses?
bredth of cruz's win matters. if this happens, then ted cruz finishes second in new hampshire. it then basically becomes a two-person very competitive race heading into south carolina where i think ted cruz has a lot of support. a total two-person race. >> trump is strong in south carolina. >> yeah, but when that bump happens, if ted cruz wins iowa, this becomes a two-person race. >> i think you have seen trump go nuclear. >> go nuclear? >> more so. >> but this whole thing is i'm a winner and so being a loser >> that's what we're going to find out. >> incredibly interesting to watch. >> the candidates that the democrats are most concerned about -- marco rubio governor christie, jeb bush, john kasich,
>> that's right. look, marco rubio has a problem, he ran as somebody when he ran for the senate that he was going to reform, he ran against immigration, he was for immigration, we don't know where marco rubio stands. i think he has to sort it out himself. meanwhile, i think, those, like governor christie, who's spending time here. governor christie is doing the right thing. you got to figure out where you win. >> you know, i think it's important that marco rubio and ted cruz, who i think are very evenly matched and such talented politicians, very different styles, i think they need to move on from this back and forth. it's like young bucks locking horns over immigration. it's been going on -- this immigration battle of he said/he said, it's like a senate re-election battle. >> we said this thing about this, hillary clinton, if she wins the nomination, she'll be one of the weakest general election candidates that we have seen in the democratic party in a long time. >> i disagree.
trust her, don't like her. the country is off on the wrong track. they want different policies than barack obama. i'm not saying she can't win, but she's vulnerable. >> ten seconds you know what, her strength is connecting with people and understanding what they need and she'll fight for them. i don't think she's weak at all. >> they like her policies. >> she's getting better at connecting. that's all the time we have for today. have a great christmas. i'll see you tomorrow on "good
paris: there's a lot to do on a dairy farm. nobody's gonna do it for you. you have to get out there and do it yourself. bernie sanders is a well-known friend of family farms. bernie cannot be bought out by big money. bernie's opinion cannot be purchased. it's time for our next president to get in there, roll up his sleeves, take off the gloves, and take on wall street, take on big business, take on big money, and get the working class back to where they should be. he's a rock. sanders: i'm bernie sanders