tv Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX November 15, 2015 10:00am-11:00am EST
terror in paris. isis claims responsibility, and france vows to strike back. all the breaking developments on this special edition of "fox news sunday." [ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: it is an act of war, undertaken by a terrorist army. it was an act of wear that was prepared, organized and planned from abroad. we'll get the latest on the investigation and live reports from across the globe. and talk with congressman peter
what it means for protecting the homeland. then world powers renight. would you jess retired general jack keane, how the u.s. and alise sfla should respond. and dr. ben carson react. >> the global jihadist movement is an existential threat. >> ben carson on what he would do if he was the commander in chief right now. it's a "fox news sunday" exclusive. and our panel analyzes the attack and how it may change the race for president, all right now on "fox news sunday." hello again from fox news in washington. here is the latest on the terror attacks in paris that killed at least 129, including one american. french president hollande says isis is responsible for the massacre. the french say they have identified one suicide bomber,
have now detained seven potential accomplices. the attacks are now the focus of the g-20 summit of world leaders in turkey, including president obama. we'll talk with ben rhodes, who is at the summit in a moment. but first senior foreign affairs correspondent greg alcott is live in paris with the latest. >> chris, we are standing in front of the bataclan music haul where 89 young concert-goers were slaughtered, as the french come to grips with the horrific terror. that i.d.'d suicide bomber was found here, or his finger was. his body was blown apart by a bomb. the print from that finger showed he was a french national,
the national stadium a few miles from here where three suicide bombers, a syrian passport has been found. greek officials now confirm it was used by a my grant who could have been smuggling in terror. nearby, another car was found full of kalashnikov rifles used to shoot and kill cafe goers. all told, seven attackers wore killed or are dead in a coordinated operation which officials say was military style and professional. 109 of the 129 victims have been identified. 392 people were injured, 99 seriously, several we are told of those hurt are american. the one identified american killed, noemi gonzalez was a 23-year-old california college student. she was here on her semester abroad. throughout paris today, thousands of soldiers and police
are out in force amid continued closures of everything from the eiffel tower and the louvre to parks, even sunday markets. a city, a country on lockdown. yes, french president francois hollande has said eye says is responsible and he does call this an act of war. he is meeting before an extraordinary session of his parliament tomorrow. the french and the world waits to see what happens next. back to you, chris. >> greg alcott reporting live from paris, thanks for that. as we said, president obama is at a summit of world leaders in turkey where terror and the response to the attack on paris now tops the agenda. joining us from the summit, the president's deputy national security adviser, ben rhodes. president obama, mr. rhodes, of course is meeting with world leaders at the g-20 summit in the wake of french president hollande saying this was an act
of war and that his response will be, quote, mercyless, is president obama prepared to dramatically escalate his effort against isis? >> well, first of all, chris, we are heartbroken by the tragedy and we agree this was an act of war against isil. we've been engaged in a war against isil through our air strikes, our support for forces on the ground, and we are prepared to work with french to make sure we can do more to facilitate effective strikes, deny them safe haven and deliver justice for these attacks. >> the french are at least considering of idea of invoking article v of nato, which says an attack against one is an atack against all. if they do that, would he go with france and are we talking about more of the same or talking about, for instance,
putting boots on the ground, com bad troops on the ground to take on isis? syria? >> that's a french determination. it's up to the nation whether or not to invoke article v, i think we would stand shoulder to shoulder with any decision they make. in any case we'll be cooperating militarily. i think you'll see intensification of the air campaigns, and more direct equipping and arming of opposition forces that are fighting on the ground in both syria and iraq. we do not believe that there is a solution to the challenge in syria or iraq that involves significant numbers of u.s. combat troops going in. what there needs to be is a mix of relentless counter-terrorism pressure and the type of political resolution to the syrian war that was being pursued in vienna yesterday with all the key nations involved. one of attackers in the
french slaughter was carrying a syrian passport that seemed to indicate he had been a refugee that had come into europe with the flood of migrants in october. if given that, is president obama reconsidering the plan to year? >> no, chris, we're still planning to take in syrian refugees. we have robust vetting procedures for those refugees. it involves our intelligence community, the national counter-terrorism center? extensive interviews, vetting them against all information, and we need to sort out that foreign fighter flow, those who have gone into syria and come out and want to launch attacks or those who have connections with isil in syria. we need the intelligence base to target and identify those people, and we need to recognize there's tragic victims of this conflict, women, children, orphans of this war and we need
safe haven. on thursday, president obama was asked how we are doing in the war against isis, and here is what he said. >> our goal has been first to contain, and we have contained them. >> we have contained isis, and then just a day later, isis launches the deadliest attack on paris since world war ii. mr. rhodes, hasn't the president having all of you around him, haven't you profoundly misjudged the strength, capabilities and ambitions of isis? >> no. look, chris, at the very very bebinning of the counter-isil campaign, the president made challenge. this is a group that poses a threat to our allies. what the president was referring to specifically is we had to if stop their geographical advance.
in some places we have rolled them back. that's necessary to shrink the space they operate in, but that does not eliminate the threat, as we all so tragically. that's wee we have to be relentless in degrading the leadership. >> i was just going to say, you're fighting the last war against isis. they have changed their tactics. they have apparently brought down a russian airliner. they had a suicide bomb that killed dozens in beirut. they now have slaughtered 130 and wounded hundreds more in paris. this kind of geographical containment isn't where isis is anymore. is. >> well, first of all, they still very much depend on their safe havens in iraq and syria. those must be denied to isil. we see them having a global reach, trying to set up operations in different places. that's why we took a strike at
the leader of isil in libya just a few days ago. at the same time, the types of threats that you reference that led to such tragic acts of terror, those have to be dealt with through a variety of means, to include military pressure, to include effective intelligence and counter-terrorism work with our allies and partners, that will need the cooperation of the whole world. that will clearly be a focus here in turkey, how are we sharing information, how are we sealing that border with turkey and dealing with terrorist networks that have ambitions to launch these type of external attacks. >> mr. rhodes, thank you for taking the time to speak with us today, sir. >> thank you, chris. so what does this brutal attack in paris tell us about the growing terror threat and how the u.s. needs to respond? to discuss that, let's brings in congressman peter king, chair of the house subcommittee on terrorism. chairman king, what's the latest
was it in fact isis? or have they been trained and directed from syria? >> chris, the picture is still not entirely clear. having said that, though, it is clear it was isis. whether or not it was out of a central command, i think it was a combination of both. i think president hollande is right on that. and france has a special problem, because they've had up to 2,000 of their citizens have gone to syria to fight alongside isis, and now they're working their way back into france. let me just say, chris, i was listening to ben rhodes, what he said about the robust vetting about refugees is untrue. that's untrue. there are no databases in syria. there are no government records. are. when you meet with the people doing the vetting, they tell us that. they are rolling a dice here. we know that isis wants to bring in terrorists with they refugees. >> let me ask this directly. are you saying the president should suspend the idea of bringing in 10,000 refugees from
syria? >> he absolutely should suspend it unless they can show 100% that a person is not involved with isis. right now there's no responsible way to do the vetten. that's the reality. why people like ben rhodes continue to say this is beyond me. it's as misguided as the president sang he's contained isis. it's a failure of leadership. we won't get arab states standing behind us or other confidence from other allies around the world, and the president from the day he start this had war against isis, 14, 15 months ago, it's been apologetic. he keeps telling us what he's not going to do. we should never tell isis what we are not going to do. the terrorists in france were able to evade french intelligence. this was a surprise attack. even now in the wake of the attack on the "charlie hebdo" magazine back in january, the
intelligence much more sweeping powers than we have in this country. question -- if they were able to pull this off in france who the government surveillance that is going on there, how safe is the u.s. homeland? >> well, we have to realize we are the main target. certainly living here in new york, this is definitely the main target, but the u.s. is the main target. we have been able to coordinate cia, fbi, homeland security, nypd here in new york, and france has a different number with a larger number of radicals in their country. having said that, this shows the absolute need to have top surveillance surveillance, to stop criticizing the nsa, the "new york times" and others trying to tie the hands of the nypd. we have to have surveillance in the muslim communities. i don't think today the french police or french intelligence is monitoring the catholic or jewish community.
the threat is coming from the muslim community. that's what we have to be doing in the u.s. over the fourth of july we were faced with attacks that could have been the worst since 9/11. fortunately the nypd, joint terrorism task force and the fbi were able to carry out arrests to stop that. we can't let our guard down, and we could listen to people who say we have to shut down the nsa or tie the hands of the fbi or the police. this is not profiling. have to do. congressman, i want to ask you about another part of my exchange is ben rhodes. he and the president are talking in a territorial sense containing isis, rolling back some of the area they hold in iraq and syria. but as i mentioned to him that was the old isis and we've seen at least a new capability when they're taking down a russian airliner, when they're launching
i guess the question is, is president obama, is his administration, are they focused on the new isis? >> no, they're still fighting halfheartedly. here in the u.s., the fbi director says he's active in investigation in all 50 states. i'm on the intelligence committee and homeland security committee. the one thing we are always told is the threats are greater than at any time since 9/11. isis is not being contained. they're spreading worldwide. we saw it with the russian jetliner, now in paris, in beirutwe've seen it in the u.s. with so many arrests over the last 6, 7, 8, 9 months of isis operatives here in the united states. apologetic. it's one foot in, one foot out. it seems like he just wants to run out the final 15 months without in the catastrophe, but not that energy.
are looking to the president of france when we are looking to leadership. congressman king, thank you for coming in. >> thank you, chris. up next, we'll talk with an eyewitness about her escape from the paris concert hall, plus an inside report on how the terrorists pulled off the spot. this is a story about doers, electric guitars it's the story of america- land of the doers. doin' it. did it. done. doers built this country. the dams and the railroads. john henry was a steel drivin' man hmm, catchy. they built the golden gates and the empire states. and all this doin' takes energy -no matter who's doin'. there's all kinds of doin' up in here. or what they're doin'. what the heck's he doin? energy got us here. and it's our job to make sure there's enough to keep doers doin' the stuff doers do... to keep us all doin' what we do. you can't predict... the market. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your investments through good
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the scene outside the bataclan music hall in paris where dozens of people were slaughtered in friday night's attack. jenny watson was at that concert at the bataclan when the shots rang out. jenny joins us now from france. jenny, once you realized that this wasn't part of the show, what did you see and hear? >> i heard gunshots. i was on the balcony, so i couldn't see the attackers, but not stop. it was nonstop. just bang bang bang. >> and how close were you to people who were hit? what did you see? >> well, first of all, i got out fairly quickly, which is probably what saved me, which is making my heart beat, because i luckily did not see people down.
to get out, but in the actual bataclan, i escaped through the safety exit, because i was near to a safety exit. and people -- but people were starting to get shot up on the balcony. the moment i managed to get into the staircase leading down to the safety exit. it was really, um, really close. >> you know, we all imagine what it would be like to be in one of these situations. how horrific. as you're going through it? >> it's -- it's very surreal. it's like it's not happening in a way. for my, anyway, this is how i felt. i just had to get out. i had my two friends with me. we stayed close by, we ducked when he heard the actual gunshots.
we ducked and hid and then we went towards the safety exit with a lot of 'em people. my main those was get out, get out. i don't think i realized -- you didn't know then what it was. it was gunshots and you had to get out. it was only afterwards when we realized it was a real terrorist attack. the horror of it came gradually as we managed to get away. we heard all these, you know people say there's attacks here and over there and in the restaurants and in the cafe, and i'm angry. i'm upset. i'm shaking. my heart's beating and i can't get warm, i'm cold, i'm shivering i don't think i'm realizing what happened, and it's still sinking in. all i know is i got out, but like in the nick of time. so, you know, the universe was on my side.
it's horrible. >> ginnie, we are so glad you are safe and thank you for sharing your story. >> thank you so much for listening. let's bring in fox news chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge. >> this morning analysts are review the isis claims. the focus on the english language version which is delivered in american-accented language, it was prepared in advance, including threats towards the russian people, rome, london and washington, d.c. separately fox news has learned that four credible accounts began sending messages 72 hours before the attacks, including images as well as blessings for the -- it's not
teams had -- james comey have told field offices to intensify investigation. before the attack comey confirmed there are 900 active isis investigations spread over all 50 states. there is a growing body of evidence the attack was premedicated and the terroristed vetted by isis and -- two fighters were sent in march, in august a french national mentioned instructions to attack a concert hall. chris? >> thank you, catherine, for all of that. retired four-star general jack keane, the former army vice chief of staff joins us now. welcome back. >> always good to be here. >> as a veteran military strategist, what strikes you about the scope and the sophistication of this attack? >> first of all, clearly it's well planned. they selected two primary
targets that are scheduled, concert, soccer game. secondary targets were, you know, the restaurants and the bars. it was well coordinated, near simultaneous attacks and largely successful. the failure was clearly at the stadium. they wanted to get inside the them. the game. >> but they truly inflicted terror on the french population, the purpose of which is to undermine the people's support for 9 government who is fighting isis. second, i believe is to polarize and fragment the muslim and non-muslim population. the impact of that will take some time to find that out. there seems to have a change in isis, first seemed to be a regional power. spreading their caliphate. we have now had the bombing of that russian airliners brought down over the sinai and egypt, a
now this brutal attack in paris. what does that tell you about changes in isis' goals and capabilities. >> these goals have always been there, but now they're able as to execute them. isis is the most success 68 terrorist organization -- >> more than al qaeda? >> oh, yeah, they have exceeded al qaeda by a factor of x some time ago. they're conducting a conventional war in iraq and syria, where they hold large swaths of territory. at the same time, in the last two weeks alone, they've killed and wounded over 900 people from the countries who were supporting the effort against them. russian people, lebanese people and now obviously french people. that is unprecedented and it's a stunning achievement. just think if the nazis were attacking us in the major cities prior to world war ii or the execution of the war. that's what this organization has achieved. we ran 9 clip in the last
segment of president obama talking about containing isis, and one of the things that people like ben rhodes point to is the fact we have recaptured the city of sinjar, helping the kurdish, iraqi kurds. we took out apparently jihadi john. s thor significant in the context of isis as far as the big international attacks. >> tactically they are successes. strategically they are not, the kurds have taken back some of the territory, and that's what sinjar represents, and killing leaders is important, but if you look at isis, they believe they are largely successful. they're still holding the territory. after they took mosul some 17 months ago, they have expanded into eight other countries where they have affiliates. we just noted what they were able to do globally. in their minds, they are a
succeeding organization. the longer we permit them to success like this in terms of time, they develop a degree of invincibility, and a sense of destiny and aura of success about them. >> so i asked ben rhodes whether this will be a dram tick escalation in our effort against isis, and he basically said no, there's not going to be a big ground effort, we'll continue more of the same, maybe more of the same. if president obama, as other presidents have, called you into the oval office today and said, jack, i've changed my mind, i want to destroy isis, i want a military option, what do i do? what would you tell them? >> well, first of all, the problem we have in iraq and syria is the land itself that they occupy are sunni lands. if you want to use indigenous forces to sake that back, you need sunnis. and we're not going to get sunni forces in iraq until we get unity with.
it's tragic we spent so much time on a nuclear deal and not on this. >> what about u.s. forces? >> u.s. forces can be increased rather dramatically. i think we should almost triple the efforts of the training advisers, people at the tactical level, special operations, raids, not just going after leaders and hostage rescue, but conducting sizable raids with considerably larger forces, helicopters, et cetera. doing the same in syria. we're handy k57d in syria, because most of the sunnis are fighting the a15d regime. if we have the french, if they want to get involved, obviously that makes some sense. we also have to recognize that putin has guaranteed the preservation of at least the alou wet regime, and the continuance of the war, which is a huge handicap for us. always complicated, no easy answers.
thank you for joining us, sir. >> you're welcome. up next. what dr. ben carson would do to big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam.
republican front-runners, dr. ben carson. welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> thank you. nice to be here. >> if you were president right now, what would you be doing specifically in response to the attack on paris? >> well, obviously extending, you know, our support to the french. you know, they were our first allies, and we want to stand with them and make sure we stand with them, make mural she understand that. but the president has an array of resource available besides the pentagon. we need to use our intelligence to a much greater extent, our intelligence agencies. i think looking at the ideological war being waged by the jihadist has been very effective. we need to wage a counter-war against them utilizing social
media, and the mechanisms they use. and the clerics, we need to be putting pressure on them to disavow what isis is doing. you know, they can't sit on the sideline here. i think also, you know, looking at what was accomplished recently, with the taking of a city, you know, that's a long-range thing and it worked very well with the kurds, shutting off supplies, creating the right atmosphere, providing the type of air support. you know, we can start doing that with other places, too. you look at places like mosul, we can start now cutting off supplies and controlling -- >> if i may, sir, let me focus on the military component. obviously after the slaughter of over 100 people, the military is the most immediate one. you have said you would, as president try to create an international coalition militarily to go after isis.
who would you call first? >> well, what i was just explaining is, you know, how we use the resources that we have. you know, that includes some of our special ops people working in conjunction with an effective fighting force there. those are the things that will create enthusiasm, as we take back the land, take back the areas and damage their image throughout the world. >> who would you call first, specifically, to put together an international military coalition? >> my point being that if we get out there and we really lead and it appears that we're making progress, then all of the arab states and even the non-arab states who i think are beginning to recognize that the jihad movement is global. it is not just local in the middle east, but if we fight it there, they will have to pool
their resources in that area, and then we won't have to necessarily fight them here. that's what i'm saying. >> can you tell us who you would call first, sir? on the international scene. >> i would call for all of the arab states to be involved in this. i would call for all of our ally ies to be involved. when you're talking about a global movement, the eventual goal is to dominate the entire world. i think a lot of people -- >> i'm sorry, sir. you talk about -- and you've been very frank about putting u.s. boots on the ground, would president carson commit thousands of u.s. troops to going back into iraq and going into syria for the first time for a ground war against isis? >> obviously we have boots on
you know, that's an emotionally laden term. how many people do we need to be there? it's really what are they doing? how effective are they? that i think is much more important than the number of people who are there, and utilizing our special ops, which are absolutely terrific in conjunction with the kurds in northern iraq, you can see how effective that is. as others are able to join us, the iraq psi forces, you -- iraqi forces played a role in that. we continue to work, and i don't want to put a specific number on it or indicate what types of people there are. those are decisions that i think are made by people who have a tremendous amount of military experience and capability. you know, for me to pretend like i have all of that knowledge and the ability to formulate all the specific plans and how to do it i think is foolish, and i think
anybody else who thinking they know it all is foolish also. >> the obama administration has said before it would accepted up to 10,000 refugees as part of the humanitarian crisis. we now learn that one of the attackers had a syrian passport that indicated he had been part of the refugee flood into europe in october. would you continue that policy? >> well, you know, as i've said all along, bringing people into this country from that area of the world i think is a huge mistake. why wouldn't they infiltrate them with people who are idea logically opposed to us? that would be foolish not to. we need to be compassionate to understand these people have been displaced and we need to use our resources to resettle
them here under these circumstances is a suspension of intellect. the reason the human brain as his big frontal lobes is we can engage in rational thought processing, we with extract information from the past, present, process it and project it into a plan. animals, on the other hand, have big brain stems and rudimentary things, because they react. we don't have to just react, we can think. >> sir, we're running out of time and i'm going to kind of do a lightning round with you, to get some quick answers. it seems to me this is a turning point if you will in the presidential campaign. we're now not just talking about electing a president, but a commander in chief, somebody who can keep the country safe. you surprised a lot of people in the last debate when you said this about syria. >> we also must recognize that it's a very complex place. you know, the chinese are there
have all kinds of factions there. >> briefly, sir, what evidence do you have that the chinese are fighting in syria? >> i didn't say that they were fighting there. i said they're involved. they're involved by supplying weapons, which we have asked them not to do, but they continue to do anyway. some are very sophisticated and obviously will require support in order to operation. >> you also said that the u.s., and you have said for some time, should establish a no-fly zone over parts of syria, where the anti-assad rebels are, and you've said that if the russians were to violate that we should be prepared to shoot them down. here you are on that. >> if they do come into that area after you have given them adequate warning, you shoot them down, absolutely. >> dr. carson what happens if the russians respond to that by shooting down one of our planes?
>> i would do that in conjunction with the turkish forces looks the syrian/turkish borders. it's a humanitarian thing to try to provide them a safe haven for now -- >> but sir, if i may press my -- >> i want to make sure the russians understood that. what do you do after we shoot down a russian plane, they shoot down one of ours? >> if they violate it, we will in fact enforce it. and, you know, we'll see what happened. for us to always be backing down because we are afraid of a conflict, that's not how we became a great nation, chris. >> but you're talking about getting potentially into a shooting war with russia? over syria? >> well, if we established a no-fly zone and make clear the
rules, if they violate it, that's why you have a no-fly zone. that's the very definition of a no-fly zone. you can't fly there. finally, sir, we are no longer, it seems to me, after paris talking about issues of immigration and taxes, as important they are, we are talking about life and death, talking about keeping americans safe from people who would slaughter us, as they did in paris. i get the questions is why should voters choose you over someone who actually has experience in foreign policy, who has experience? national security? >> are you talking by somebody like hillary clinton perhaps? i would say the reason is because you can ar stick ticulate intelligence options and because you know how to work with other people and utilize the incredible resources that we have available to us. you know, i've had an
opportunity in recent weeks to talk to a lot of incredible people who have a lot of experience getting their lifetime experience. i talked to henry kissinger and got his whole perspective on those areas. there are a lot of other people i will be continuing to talk to. you have to be willing to recognize that you are not the end all, but you are the conduit for the conduct of american policies. >> dr. carson, thank you. thanks for joining us today. always a pleasure to talk with you, sir. >> thank you, chris. up next, we'll bring in our sunday group to discuss this latest deli turn in the war on terror and how it will reshape the race for president, as welcome to today's working world. companies everywhere are working harder and investing more. but achieving the right outcomes has never been more difficult. xerox engineers a better way for people, process and technology to work together. improving how the world shops,
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ideology is an attack not just on france, not just on turkey, but it's an attack on the civilized world. >> president obama reaffirming u.s. resolved in waging the war against isis. it's time now for our sunday group. syndicated columnist george will. peter baker, who covers the white house for "new york times." radio talk show host laura ingraham, and charles lane from "the washington post." peter, we have seen something of an escalation in u.s. efforts against isis just in the last week with american air strikes helping the kurds take ban the city of sinjar and cut the vital highway linking raqqa with mosul, and then also the strike that apparently the strike that took out jihadi john. in the wake of the attack on paris, what do you expect
>> that's a very good point. i think he meant territorial they were contained, but clearly, you know, paris and now russian plane and beirut suggests something otherwise. just yesterday they had an attack in libya, the first time outside of iraq and syria, so you've begun to see possibly a new stage in the effort. he'll have to confront this issue of what more he's willing to do. i don't think he'll be putting in more troops, as ben rhodes told, you and i think he'll find the parameters he's willing to consider are fairly narrow. the french president said this is an act of war, and there's talk of france invoking article v, and yet what struck me when i raised all of that with ben rhodes, the president's
deputy national security adviser and close aide to him. >> it's interesting that the tonality of the french leadership is much stronger and much more aggressive-sounding in the aftermath of these attacks, seems more aggressive than our own president. i think there are things that come into play here. you mentioned earlier that -- as you're seeing with what's happening on the ground in france and swittersland with the rise of the nationalist party there, the real push against merkel today in germany for her saying that my vision is intact to taking in the refugees, i think this will -- >> i asked ben rhodes about that, given the fact that one of these attacker was a my grant, and he said, no, no, we're going too. >> and hundreds i understand arrived yesterday in new orleans, syrian refugees already coming to this country.
i think this will become a big part of this presidential debate, and it really does directly tie into national security, our southern boreser, our visa program and not with the refugees coming in, at least one with part of the my grant program. registered, went through the process, the aisle of leros. >> as i was discussing with general keen and ben rhodes, they seemed to be engaged. or realizing now international terrorism, the downing of the russian airliner, the suicide attack in beirut, this horrific attack in paris. i'm wondering, is there a disconnect between president obama an his people say saying we took back the city of sinjar 17 months later and the carnage
>> well, i think we are witnessing the in effect -- from isis's point of view, the retaliation to what the u.s. and france have been attempting to do so far. and others. they're fighting hezbollah, so beirut. this is their effort to carry the fight that we have been taking against them into our cities, and our heartland, to show to impose a cost on our civilian population of the so far limited measures that we have taken in their region. >> but then i was going to say, doesn't the, quote, containment that the president is talking about miss the point? >> well, they are trying to show it's futile, in other words we can't be contained. yes, you can knock 25 miles off our territory, but we can reach out and touch you in the heart of your capital. that's why this is so dangerous.
that, no, you can't fight this by remote control, you can't fight this through limited means. if you want to fight us at all, it's got to be total war. >> george? >> i think it's possible looking back a few weeks from now this particular demonstration that what happens in sir gentleman doesn't say in syria. in a grim sense we're going to conclude that worse is bers. for years now, this has been developed in the tactical, legal and moral ambiguities in what is deemed as nonstate actors. >> this increasingly by demonstrating its reach far from the territory in libya, france, knocking down ahear, agents like a state and it could be treated lie a state. if i heard ben rose correctly, he said it is up to france whether or not to call this an article v event.
in nato 66 years, only one has the territory of a nato member been invaded. that's the falkland islands, a long way from the atlantic, but mr. putin is clearly watching it, if you believe as i do that putin's aim is ultimately to destroy nato, by having a semi-article v infraction, he's going to say what are they going to do if france does this? it will be interesting to know if there's appreciate on france not to invoke that article. >> this is a weaponization of all of the fragileities of the alliance within europe and between europe and the united states. >> i want to turn specifically to the political is issue, because it seems this has enormous political ramifications. as you heard in my discussion with dr. ben carson, it feels to me like we'll be entering a new
chapter of the presidential race, where national security, foreign policy, the war on terror will become a much more central issue in the campaign than it has been. here was hillary clinton talking about the attack on paris in last night's democratic debate. >> i think what the president has consistently said, which i agree with, is that we will support those who take the fight to isis, but this cannot be an american fight, although american leadership is essential essential. >> question, do you think this helps or hurts clinton? given obama's foreign policy record. and what do you think it does to the republican race where you have the office holders with some experience and the outsiders who have held entail up until now? >> look, he said last night that isis can't be contained, it needs to be defeated. she's already trying to distance herself to some sterns. she comes across obviously more than her counterparts as fluid
and comfortable with foreign policy issues. given her experience that's not surprising. bernie sanders opens hi statement by focusing france and then shifting to income inequality, and as a president you have to deal with all these things, you can't simply brurp away a foreign policy issue. the biggest challenge is he blames hillary clinton and president obama for invade -- he doesn't give an alternative what he would do today, given the situation's it exists. laura, what do you think it does to the republican race? >> credibility and resolve become ever more important. experience i think is important as well, dealing with this type of crisis, a threat to one of our strongest allies, and perhaps to the united states given our our porous borders. chris christie spoke yesterday
at the sunshine event in florida. he played out a whole speech and focusing on these issues of credibility, resolve, someone in office who does not just blow with whatever political winds are there, and puts america's interests first and that of her allies. a very powerful speech. i think we'll see more of that from candidates. george, is foreign policy going to be an area of strength or weakness for hillary clinton given all the criticism of the obama foreign policy. >> it seems the more disorderly the world is, the more difficult it is to run on your record as secretary of state as a qualifications for president. to be continued. thank you, pan. see you next sunday. up next, a final word about the dark day in the city of
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