tv This Week With George Stephanopoulos ABC November 5, 2017 10:30am-11:30am EST
"this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. >> robert mueller makes his move. >> did you collude with the russians? >> two indictments. a secret witness. with the white house surprised by new revelations on the trump campaign's ties to russia, the president tries to turn the table. >> they should be looking at the democrats. a lot of people are disappointed in the justice department, including me. >> what do mueller's first arrests say about the strength of his case? and his strategy? has president trump crossed the line by calling for the doj to investigate his political opponents? we'll tackle those questions with whitewater independent counsel ken starr and the u.s. attorney fired by president trump preet bharara. and democrats rocked by the explosive charges from former dnc chair donna brazile in her new book. the president pounces. >> you take a look at hillary clinton. she basically bought the dnc, and she stole the election from bernie.
>> donna brazile responds here live in our exclusive interview. plus, trump pushes his tax plan. >> people are loving it. >> but our brand-new poll shows weak support. big questions now about the bill's impact on middle class families, the deficit. as lobbyists line up to save their special breaks. so can the gop stick together and pass this bill? what will it mean for you? we'll break down the politics. smoke out the spin. the facts that matter, "this week." >> from abc news, it's "this week." here now chief anchor george stephanopoulos. >> good morning. it's the first anniversary of his election approaches this week, president trump is in a deep hole with the american public. our abc news poll with "the washington post" shows more americans disapprove of the president than ever before. 59% are unsatisfied with his performance. only 37% approve. the worst numbers for any president at this point in office since polling began. he's the only president since harry truman whose first year approval rating is underwater. every other president has had
positive numbers. as the president begins his trip across asia, special counsel robert mueller's investigation has cast a cloud over his presidency. nearly half of americans think it's likely trump committed a crime in connection with russian attempts to influence the election. that may explain why president trump worked hard this week to focus his fire back on the democrats. and he got some ammunition with the explosive revelations in former dnc chair donna brazile's new book, "hacks." tin side story of the breakins and breakdowns that put donald trump in the white house. brazile claims the dnc gave hillary clinton an unfair edge over bernie sanders. and reveals she considered replacing clinton as a nominee after clinton fainted at the 9/11 ceremony. the ticket i liked most, she writes, was joe biden and cory booker. i felt certain that that combination would win the general election. and donna brazile who has been a long time abc contributor, joins us now. welcome back. >> thank you.
>> let's get some facts on the table first. as dnc chair, you didn't have the power on your own to replace hillary clinton on the ticket? >> no. the charter and the convention rules say that the chairman shall, in consultation with the leadership and others. i had to put it on the table. i was under tremendous pressure after secretary clinton fainted to have a quote unquote plan "b." i didn't want a plan "b." plan "a" was great for me. i supported hillary. i wanted her to win. we were under pressure. >> how serious was it? you got a call from vice president biden at the time. did you mention it to the vice president? >> no. i did not. everyone called to see, do you know anything? how is she doing? and, of course, my job at the time, george, was to reassure people. not just the vice president, but also the democratic party, the members of party that hillary was doing find she would resume her campaign the following week.
>> do you still think biden and booker would have won? >> had a lot of other combinations. this was something you play out in your mind. at the time, i was sitting next to charlie baker, her chief -- >> clinton's campaign. >> charlie and i picked out. i had the former chair call me. donald fowler jr. i mean, senior. what are you doing? look, the bottom line is she -- she resumed campaigning. i went on tv. to say that the campaign was back on track. >> as you can imagine, there's been quite a reaction to this, including this open letter from the hillary for america 2016 team signed by about 100 people. they say they are shocked to learn you were considering this. they go on to say -- it is particularly troubling and puzzling that she would seemingly buy into russian fueled propaganda spread by the russians and the opponent about the candidate's health. >> as i said, i spoke to charlie baker -- >> did you mention this to him? >> i kept my own counsel. i'm the chair of the party. i decided i wanted to be up front with someone inside the campaign. charlie was there sitting across
from me. but let me just address what my former colleagues. i wasn't a staff person. i did not work for the hillary clinton campaign. i was not on their daily strategy calls. i had nothing to do with their data analytics. i was the chair of democratic national committee. i was concerned about the entire party. not just the presidential. but the senatorial, congress nal. >> it sounds like you had a dysfunctional relationship with the high command in hillary's campaign. you talk about saying i'm not patsy the slave? >> oh, george, let me tell you something. i could not control the -- the purse string of the democratic party. i had to figure out what was going on within the party that the chair of the party, remember, i wasn't just the chair. i'm also a vice chair. i was an officer for eight years. eight years under president obama. i knew what was going on within the party. i become chair. i'm trying to write a check for something. i raised the money. they're like, you have to get signed off from brooklyn. i said brooklyn? this wasn't a standard joint fund-raising agreement.
they had a memorandum of understanding. and i needed to break that. in order to break it, i would cause a great commotion. yeah, i'm not patsy the slave because i got sick and tired of people telling me how to spend money. all i was trying to do -- i wasn't getting a salary. i was volunteering my time. i was trying to increase the level of enthusiasm and passion for hillary clinton and the rest of the ticket across the country. >> they take exception to your description as the campaign as an antiseptic, sterile inside the headquarter. a lot of people saying sthat not the campaign they knew. >> they should take a page from hillary's book. write their own book. i enjoyed hillary's book. part memoir. a history book. i loved reading her book. if they don't like my book. don't buy it. let me say this. i have every right as a former chair of the party, next year, i'll celebrate almost 50 years in american politics.
the democratic party is 170 years old. >> i get that. there's a lot of traffic on twitter. i have gotten e-mails from democrats. passionate democrats who say they feel betrayed by all this. any regrets? >> do i regret taking on a job the second time in my life as chair of the party? cleaning up everyone's mess? taking all of the incoming? being unable to spend funds that i raised? do i regret being on the road 100% of the time? being hacked by the russians? being -- being harassed, getting death threats? do i regret any of that? george, this was worse than hurricane katrina in terms of the emotional toll. do i regret stranding up for what is right? helping hillary clinton? helping the democratic party? and let me just say this. as somebody who went through the hacking experience. being able to tell the truth about what happened with the russians, the taattack on our government? do i regret that? i wish i could have done more.
>> do you think this helps for the book to come out? >> well, george, this is a lesson of 2016. if i released it next year, they would say, donna, you're impacting our 2018. donna, you're impacting -- for those who are telling me to shut up, they told hillary that a couple of months ago. you know what i tell them, go to hell. i'm going to tell my story. i'm going to tell my story, george. because this is a story of a young girl who started in american politics at the age of 9. who continues to fight each and every week of her life. i went down to -- virginia last week, to kick off the canvassing campaign. nobody paid me to do that. nobody. nobody -- i'm not on the payroll, george. i care about my country. i care about our democracy. and i say go to hell because, why am i supposed to be the only person that is unable to tell my story? now, if -- i have had a lot of people tell me various things as well. here's what they don't know. what it was like to be over at the dnc during the hacking. what it's like to bury a child.
i did, seth rich. they don't know what it's like to protect a staff from further harassment. they don't know what it's like because they're -- the high command of brooklyn. the people making the decisions, even for the dnc, they didn't come and work with us. they told us to shut up. and basically let them win the election. when we tried to intervene, we had to spend money we raised to try to help them win. that was my job as chair of the party. >> clear you have no regrets. you mentioned seth richards. killed during the campaign. did you feel under threat? >> every day. especially when donald trump -- donald trump would go out there and tweet. i have worked on campaigns all my adult life. i have been called some of the worst things in america. when donald trump would attack me, i got the threats were just unbearable. my house right now is -- i got every different kind of security device. i had to get my home swept. i had to get the dnc swept twice. it was horrible. >> as you know, he's tweeting again, based on your book.
he put out, the real story on collusion is in donna b.'s new book. crooked hillary bought the dnc and then stole the democratic primary from crazy bernie. >> well, donald trump likes to distract. what he should be focusing on is protecting our country from being hacked again. he should be working with congress to ensure that the american people will feel confident that we are going to have a good election season in 2017, 2018. donald trump loves to distract us and divide us. i'm not playing his game. >> he wants an investigation. the department of justice. >> i think he needs to look at his own house before he tries to clean up someone else's house. >> do you think the joint fund-raising agreement was illegal? >> i didn't like the fact that there was an additional memorandum that spelled out what the clinton campaign could do in exchange for bailing the democratic party out. i give secretary clinton credit for bailing the democratic party out. because we were -- we were in debt.
>> i have seen the e-mail traffic. it appears from at least one e-mail that the sanders campaign was offered the exact same term. they could offer an agreement of their own if they raised more money. they chose not to. >> the sanders campaign set up a joint fund-raising account as well. they chose not to put money in it. they also chose the allow the dnc to control what little funds they did put in it. this was a separate. what this was was an additional memorandum. >> they were offered that same thing. here's the e-mail. if you're raising significantly more than the amount to cover the vote apart from the dnc. the dnc would be happy to chat with the sanders team. and come to an understanding about the best way to use those funds to prepare for the general election at the dnc. they were offered a similar chance. >> george, when i went, when i found out, the reason the chair of the party, the chair of the democratic national committee could not spend the funds, i found the agreement myself. this is the agreement they put out. this is the agreement i found. what i tried to do, george, was to work within the parameters of this agreement so that i could hire staff. so that i could spend money,
money that we raised. so that i could help hillary and tim kaine and all of the other democrats win. as for any agreements or side agreements with senator sanders. i have never seen that before, george. >> do you agree with elizabeth warren that the primaries were rigged? >> i don't think she meant the word rigged. what i said, george, as you well know, after i left the show on july 24th, i said i would get to the bottom of everything. that's what i did. and i called senator sanders to say, you know, i wanted to make sure there was no rigging of the process. i'm on the rule and bylaws committee. i found no evidence. none whatsoever. the only thing i found, which i said, i found the cancer. i'm not killing the patient. was this memorandum that prevented the dnc from running its own operation. >> you write about the e-mail where you appear to share questions with the clinton campaign. from a debate on cnn. >> yes, i did. >> we're showing it on the screen. in the past, you said sending those e-mails was a mistake you'll forever regret. in the book, you're not sure you sent the e-mail. >> well, george, when you're
hacked. look, i have seven e-mail accounts. maybe more. when you're hacked. and you don't know. i'm the only person in america that had to go and look and say, where is it? where is it? i knew i sent e-mails. of course, george. >> you're not denying you sent it? >> george, i'm not -- first of all, i said, straugt up. i said, look, if this was sent, i know why i sent it. i apologized. i spent the entire month of august apologizing for the leaked hacked e-mails. which is a crime. and so far, no one has been charged with a crime. i've apologized. i said i'm sorry. here's what i also say in the book that i thought was helpful to the reader. to tell people that during this time when we were under pressure to add more debates to the schedule. i went out to get more debates. cnn was the beneficiary. of those debates. but i wanted more diversity. more diverse voices. and yes, i wanted issues that people cared about. people were, as you recall, black lives matter were marching in the streets.
they wanted us to address criminal justice reform. yes, when cnn agreed to go to flint, michigan, we wanted to discuss the water crisis. all of that is in the memo. all of that is in the book. >> did you share questions with the sanders campaign? >> i shared -- let me tell you something, george. even when i knew the topics on nbc, i talked to republicans about the topics. i shared with everybody. i wanted the best information possible. i didn't want the candidates shocked by the nature of the questions. for the first time, we were going to go beyond talking about the usual issues that animate democratic primaries. we were going to talk about issues that concern black lives matter. >> you have tough words for the leaders of your party in there as well. you say, we have had three democratic parties. the party of barack obama. the party of hillary clinton. and the weak little vestige of a party that was led by debbie that was doing a very poor job
of getting people who were not represented elected. these three titanic egos have stripped the party to a shell for their own purposes. >> i take responsibility, too, george. i'm a democrat. we lost thousands of state legislative seats. we've lost gubernatorial seats. we have an opportunity on tuesday in new jersey and virginia to fight back. to regain some of the lost ground over the last ten years. that's what i'm hoping will happen. every voter should know their vote counts. their voice must be heard. i encourage them to vote in virginia, new jersey, and alabama, where i'll be many alabama by the end of the month. it's important that everybody votes. yes, i take a hard, hard hit at people within the party because i love my party. i love my country. i'm going to continue the fight for it. >> continue the fight for it. and are you confident now that the democratic party can be fixed? what is the most important thing it can do? >> i'm confident that tom perez is leading in the right direction. we have a unity commission that is going to examine the things i raised about the primary contest and the caucus system.
we have keith ellison and others energizing the grass roots. the party is making a substantial investment in the states. george. one of the things that bothered me in the patsy the slave chapter. i got some controversial chapters. i understand. anyone from louisiana knows i'm going to put hot sauce on every page. it's if not dripping with hot and spicy, it's not me. what i'm most confident of is we now have a party this is invested in all 50 states. imagine you're the chair of the party. i'm from louisiana. i'm from the south. i cannot get one pollster outside of florida, virginia, north carolina, to go home to louisiana or mississippi or louisiana. i can't send resources to those states. i was the chair of the party. i didn't ask to be chair. when i left your show on july 24th, i thought i was going to have a nice brunch. instead, i was called. they said, we need you to step up again. and i did.
>> it has been some year. donna brazile, thank you very much. >> always a pleasure, george. when we come back, what this week's indictments mean. ken starr, preet bharara and dan abrams join us live. i had this chest cold, but my medicine kept wearing off. (coughah! i missed you! then i discovered mucinex. one pill lasts 12 hours,and i'm good. why take 4-hour medicine? one mucinex lasts 12 hours.
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that move from mueller on monday morning. targeting rick gates and paul manafort. both men pled not guilty. to the 12-count indictment which includes charges of money laundering and tax fraud. even more surprising, mueller revealed his first secret witness, george papadopoulos. he admitted lying to the fbi about his contacts with the russians and others in the trump campaign. among the details, conversations about getting dirt on hillary clinton. thousands of e-mails months before the the e-mails were released by wikileaks. let's analyze the fallout with the independent counsel that investigated bill clinton, ken starr. he served as solicitor general for the u.s. preet bharara. and our own legal analyst dan abrams. preet, let me begin with you. what message did robert mueller send on monday about where he's going, where he's heading? >> i don't think he's in the business to send a message.
he's doing the job he was appointed to do. follow the facts. find out the truth. hold people accountable if they've crossed the line into criminal conduct. a by-product of his action is you know, something other people are hearing as a message. and that is among other things, that the charges against george papadopoulos, and that he's almost certainly flipped and is providing information to the government means you'll see more charges coming. second thing i would say is, the fact that the mueller team takes very seriously being lied to. the fbi agents don't like that. it undermines their ability to get the truth out and to hold people accountable. lying to the fbi is a form of obstruction. to the extent people are wondering how they feel about obstruction, they feel seriously about it. some people should be worried. >> professor starr, do you agree the in some ways that the papadopoulos plea agreement is
the most significant thing we saw on monday? >> in some ways. manafort indictment shows there is a power and force in what bob mueller is doing. i have great respect for him. in terms of draining the swamp. that indictment doesn't speak with respect to russian collusion. it talks about corruption. corruption on k street. i think it's significant. i have read the papadopoulos indictment with some care. and it seems to me that a fair reading of that is, yes, some of the dirt was going to come to him. he was interested in that. he was really seeking to be a policymaker guy who could arrange a meeting with vladimir putin. with the russian ambassador to the uk. and so forth. he was a real wannabe. but the point that reaches me that is so powerful, don't lie to the fbi. i think that is the message that bob mueller chose to send on this particular day that it's not just about paul manafort. it's about the integrity of the investigation. just tell the truth.
>> george papadopoulos may have been a wannabe. may have been tangential to the campaign. but you learn he had lots of conversations. e-mail traffic inside the campaign about russian contacts which has been denied by trump and his white house all along. >> and that becomes the key now. is assessing who were the people he was talking to? why were they encouraging him to continue speaking with the russians? and most importantly, in the context of the investigation, what happened between the time he was arrested in july and until october 5th? so you have a period there, where he likely was helping. he may have been wearing a wire for all we know. in terms of getting information which could lead to additional charges on other people, with regard to some of the same things we're talking about. potentially lying. and the question remains, why did papadopoulos lie? why, in this context, was he covering up? the answer may be he didn't want
to admit it. he didn't want to come clean. didn't want to talk what about he was doing. there's a bigger question to be answered. >> i want to bring that question to preet. what does this tell you about a possible obstruction case against the president and the associates? >> the charges against papadopoulos don't tell us that much about a possible obstruction case. but it means they take it seriously. throwing sand in the eyes of the umpire is frowned upon. not only sit -- is it frowned upon, it's prosecutable. >> this is a small part of a larger investigation. >> you have seen, professor starr, something you're familiar with. people criticizing the actions of the special counsel. you have some members of congress saying robert mueller should step down because he was the head of the fbi when that uranium one deal was approved by nine agencies under the obama administration. what do you make of those attempts to say he was compromised by this? >> oh, i think that's silly. he needs to step aside in terms of an investigation with respect to that.
but that can be handled. there's no reason for his investigation to include that. there are inspectors general and the like. there are other mechanisms to hold folks accountable for what may have been done. in that sense. criticism goes with the territory. if you don't have the facts, argue the law. if you don't have the facts in law, attack the prosecutor. every defendant is likely to do that. what is very significant is even though the president's very frustrated and lashes out, he appears to be following the advice of his lawyers. the lawyers are saying the right thing. as far as we know, they're doing the right thing. cooperating with the investigation instead of stone walling. >> and saying they're not talking about firing robert mueller right now. mean final, the president is active on twitter. criticizing his own justice department. everyone is asking why the
justice department and the fbi is not looking into the dishonesty with crooked hillary and the democrats. right after that, jon karl asked about it. >> will you fire jeff sessions? >> i don't know. i'm not involved with the justice department. they should be looking at the democrats. they should be looking at podesta and all of that dishonesty. they should be looking at a lot of things. a lot of people are disappointed in the justice department, including me. >> extraordinary the president taking on his own justice department like that, preet. is he crossing a line? >> he's crossed the line a number of times. it's a terrible thing for a president in this country to tell his justice department who to investigate, who to prosecute, and who to keep their hands off of. we have evidence of that on the flip side of the coin. we have evidence he told jim comey to back off on mike flynn and asked jeff sessions to back awe potentially on joe arpaio. both of those things are terrible for the rule of law in our country. >> general flynn, you have to believe he has similar issues to that of paul manafort.
not money laundering. but reporting of his foreign lobbying activity. it's already being revealed he didn't properly reveal his lobbying activity. the question is is he next? >> is he cooperating? months ago, he seemed to be publicly offering up his cooperation in exchange for a deal. i don't think we know what is happening with flynn. with regard to the president's public comments, there are separate questions of crossing the line in terms of protocol. in terms of morality. and ethics. and law. right? i think that it doesn't cross the line yet. people are asking, isn't this obstruction? what the president is doing already? and isn't he improperly speaking out? the answer is, improper, i think that's pretty clear. but, when it comes to the -- the implications for the justice department, it would have to be an order or a directive for it really to become a real legal
issue. >> mr. starr, you get the last word. is the president getting close to the line? >> no, he's just spouting off. but until he does, exactly what preet said, until he issues a directive. directly or indirectly. he's expressing the frustration. it's not crossing the line. into criminality. >> thank you all very much. >> thank you. coming up, our "roundtable" takes on the fallout. and we'll check in live on the asia trip with jonathan karl. asia trip with jonathan karl. how much money do you think you'll need in retirement? then we found out how many years that money would last them. how long do you think we'll keep -- oooooohhh! you stopped! you're gonna leave me back here at year 9? how did this happen? it turned out, a lot of people fell short, of even the average length of retirement. we have to think about not when we expect to live to, but when we could live to. let's plan for income that lasts all our years in retirement. prudential. bring your challenges. i'm joy bauer, and as a nutritionist i know probiotics can often help.
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no one, no dictator, no regime, no nation, should underestimate, ever, american resolve. every once in awhile in the past, they underestimated us. it was not pleasant for them, was it? it was not pleasant. >> president trump with the troops in japan this morning. the start of his longest foreign trip yet. the threat from north korea front and center. our chief white house correspondent jon karl will be with the president every stop. good morning, jon. >> reporter: good morning, george.
it's an ambitious and high stakes trip. the president in asia for nearly two full weeks. of course, the threat posed by north korea is issue number one. the trip begins in japan. america's closest ally in the region. the president seems to have a genuinely warm relationship with prime minister shinzo abe. the two met here at the most celebrated golf course in the country in tokyo, japan. the president was presented with custom-made hats that read, donald & shinzo. make alliance even greater. the two then played a round of golf. joined by japan's top professional golfer. next up, the president heads to south korea, followed by china. and summit meetings in vietnam. and in the file -- philippines. he expects to meet with vladimir putin. asked about the meeting on air force one, the president said, we want putin's help on north korea.
>> that will be a big meeting. the center piece, probably the meeting with president xi of china. >> reporter: no question about that. that is the key relationship both in terms of isolating and pressuring thort korea. and in terms of the trade issues the president has on his mind. and xi comes into the meeting having expanded his control over the chinese government. becoming solidified as the most powerful leader, ruler of china in at least a generation. the president was asked about that. also on air force one. he said that he, too, is coming into this as a -- at a position of strength. he pointed to the stock market's success. to the low unemployment rate. then he had this to say about the stock market. quote, the reason our stock market is so successful is because of me. i have always been great with money. i've always been great with jobs. that's what i do. george? >> not a shy president. jon karl, thank you very much. up next, can republicans stick together on the tax plan? i'll talk to two key members of the house. and our "roundtable." "
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delsym helpswhich means, impulse to cough for 12 hours. you're controlling your cough on your morning commute. and later when you're joking with beth... even when most cough medicines stop, delsym is still working. delsym. the #1 12-hour cough medicine. we're back with the gop's big push on tax cuts. president trump and house republicans launched their bill this week. a 400-page rewrite on the tax code. centers on a cut in the corporate tax rate.
new cuts and credits for individuals and families. that will increase the deficit by at least $1.5 trillion over ten years and should cut income taxes for most americans. but the bill eliminates many popular deductions. five years out, many middle class families will see taxes go up as credits expire. most of the benefits go to the wealthiest americans. but the bills' supporters argue that economic growth will be a big boom for every american. can the gop pass the bill by christmas? we're joined by house republicans with different views of the plan. mark meadows of north carolina and congressman peter king of new york. congressman king, let me begin with you. you have been an outspoken critic of the bill's doing away with the tax deduction for state and local income taxes. does that mean you're a no vote? >> as of now, i would be. i'm a ronald reagan, jack kemp republican when it comes to tax cuts. i believe in tax cuts. i believe they worked under john kennedy. they worked under ronald reagan.
this bill, by taking away the state and local tax deduction has a particularly devastating effect on new york and new jersey. we already get treated unfairly. new york gets back 79 cents on the dollar. that's september to washington. $48 billion deficit on money we send to washington and don't get back. since 1913, it's been a principle not to have a tax on a tax. one other policy suggestion is that the republican party has always stood for federalism. encouraging state and local governments to do all that they can. now, we're being penalized for that. it's strong. it would have an extremely damaging effect on my constituents. who are middle, in some cases upper middle, but mostly middle income. a district that went for barack obama by four points and five points. ronald reagan. excuse me, donald trump carried it by nine. that's a 14-point turn around. the main objection i'm getting
from my constituents is from trump voters. >> one no vote. congressman meadows, let me bring it to you. you and fellows have been deficit hawks. this is going to increase the deficit. independent analysts say it could be far more than what's expected. can you vote for the bill? >> we can. it's a work in progress. obviously, peter king is advocating real hard on behalf of his constituents. i appreciate that. peter and i were on the house floor just the other day. and, as we were talking about, what it does for his constituents. what it does for mine. i can tell you, on the deficit side of things, even though we're looking at a $1.5 trillion increase in the deficit in the short run, preliminary numbers look good in terms of economic growth. over a longer period of time, some 10 to 15 years, we believe that the economic growth will outweigh any short term deficit increase that we see. and so, peter and i are going to have to continue to work together to hopefully get this right. we're going to start the markup on monday. in the house. the senate will be rolling out
their bill in the next few days. but, at the end of the day, we -- you know, failure is not an option. >> you're willing to vote to increase the deficit over ten years? >> i am. i mean, we have looked at this. of course, i'm a numbers guy, george. as i have looked that particular bill, it appears that we should be able to get hopefully a 3.5 to 3.6 gdp growth bump. when we do that, that actually means higher wages. a stronger economy. and as you look at a longer budget window, what it does is, even though we're looking at increasing the deficit in the short run, over a 15-year period, it appears we could have these tax cuts paid for because of economic growth. >> congressman king, president trump added a wrinkle when they said congress should consider repealing the obamacare mandate to buy health insurance in this bill. can you go along with that? >> i think we should confine
this to tax cuts and tax reform. i agree with mark. i hope we can work it out. right now, as i look at it for my district and my state, you would have my voters, my constituents subsidizing other states in the country. new york does subsidize the rest of the country already. i want to work this right now. if it's worked out, i support almost everything else in the bill. i agree with mark. i think it is going to bring about growth for the country. i just don't want the rest of the country to be growing and more and more people having to move out of new york or lose their homes. >> congressman meadows. one other issue. when the tax credit expire, five years from now, 2023, there will be on average, a tax increase for families earning $20,000 to $40,000 a year. and for families $200,000 to $500,000. can you go along with that? >> here's where we are. it's interesting. peter was talking about the individual mandate. one of the things that i have been advocating for is to
include a repeal of the individual mandate in the tax bill. the reason for that, it gives us probably close to $400 billion more to not only extend those tax credits you're talking about, but to address the state and local tax situation that peter is seeing. and lee and others in new jersey are seeing. we're advocating on behalf of that. when you look at those tax credits expiring, i think most of what we're seeing is, as we start to reconcile with the senate. they will be permanent tax decreases for not only middle income americans. but across the spectrum that will be permanent for a ten-year period. so, looking at the detailed numbers, i think that the analysis that perhaps some naysayers have right now is not going to be meted out in the coming days. i'm hopeful we vote on this by november 16th in the house and the first part of december in the senate.
>> sounds like you have a lot to work through this week. thanks very much for your time. we'll be right back with "the roundtable." after 8 years of chris christie, is kim guadagno the change new jersey really needs? guadagno is christie's hand-picked successor. says she's "proud to be part of the christie administration." guadagno was chris christie's right hand as our schools came under attack, critical services were underfunded, and our credit rating was downgraded...11 times. from the bridge to the beach, we've seen it all,
and we've had enough. kim guadagno isn't the change we need. we have great hopes that it wraps up. it is very distracting to the president, as it would be to any citizen to be investigated for something while at the same time, trying to carry the weight of what being president of the united states means. >> general kelly after the indictments came out on monday. let's talk about it with the "roundtable." with the washington bureau chief for the a.p., julie pace. sara fagen, republican strategist and cnbc critter. marc lotter, former press secretary for vice president mike pence. and charles blow, an op-ed columnist for "the new york times. and charles, i want to start with you. >> amazing. huh? >> exactly. no regrets. no backing down. at all from donna brazile. he says her critics can go to hell. >> yes. okay. so full disclosure. i know donna. known her for a long time. we're both from louisiana.
i saw her this summer. she had this manuscript in her hand. she let me read the first page. i knew it was going to be disruptive. she felt like her story had not been told fully. i think everybody has the right to do it. it's a political memoir. that said, it's horrible for the democratic party because it confirms a lot of what people who were cleaving apart from the party believed already. that it's -- that it -- that it's -- didn't function well. that there was some -- weirdness. about treatment of bernie sanders. and if you talk to young liberals now, there's incredible energy. they are -- there's a lot of direct democracy work. people getting in the streets. people wanting to vote. people showing up to rallies. they're almost completely separate from the democratic party apparatus. >> you do see a real division. two days ahead of a big election in the state of virginia for governor. >> absolutely. and i think -- look, you think donald trump's
challenges in his favorability a depressed northern virginia population of moderate republicans? but ed gillespie is tied. if a republican is tied going into an i lex like this, a midterm election, in virginia, there's a good chance he'll win. >> that would be a huge blow to the democrats. >> it would. absolutely. democrats haven't had a lot to cheer about this year. they have lost most of the special elections that they have come up in. they look at virginia. they see a state they look at as less of a swing state and more of a blue state. to lose a gubernatorial race at this point. they've been able to focus in, put resources. all the party stars, barack obama has been down there. to lose this would be a huge blow. it would underscore that this year for democrats has been a wasted year in terms of figuring out the direction that the party goes in after the shocking loss that they had in 2016. >> president trump treated this book like the best news he got all week. >> i'll tell you. one of the most surprising things was the reaction from
hillary's campaign, when they signed the letter to donna brazile. when they brought back russia again. it's like a child with a blankie that everything they do revolves around russia. not taking a critical look at the party apparatus. >> julie, they want to talk about russia. not the only ones. the week began with the big news. from robert mueller. you cover the white house. you cover washington every single day. the white house was braced for the manafort indictments. they didn't see this papadopoulos thing coming. >> and for as much attention at manafort and gates got, e think we need to focus more on papadopoulos. one, because it was a total surprise to the white house. that this was someone who would face charges. two, if you talk about mueller sending message, the real message is through papadopoulos. he's going to go from the bottom on of the campaign to the top and he'll take lying to his prosecutors as a criminal offense. multiple people in the trump
administration, who left in the first couple of months and who are currently there. who are now having their own interviews with mueller. >> one of them sam clovis. iowa political operative who was working in the white house. if you go through the indictments and the plea agreements. he's the campaign staffer who said it was okay in an e-mail for papadopoulos to go to russia. the day after this comes out, he pulls back from his nomination for the agriculture department. >> that's right. there will be consequences across the board here because of this. to me, there's no -- evidence yet that there's any collusion. no evidence yet that the president or anybody in the current white house had conducted themselves in any way improper. but, this does get to a wider judgment question. particularly in the early days of the campaign formation. that too many of his staffers had no idea that engaging in this kind of behavior was wrong and inappropriate.
>> and marc lotter, one of the things it shows, we have heard president trump, his entire team, talking about there was no contact with russia at all, during the entire campaign. i mean, these indictments and the papadopoulos plea agreement show that is not even close to true. >> you're seeing a young guy trying to build a portfolio for himself. and as was pointed out earlier on the show, whether it was dealing with getting dirt or trying to build a relationship with, from a foreign policy standpoint. that's what we were looking at. where we stand right now is that the only proof where we have of actually a campaign organization working in collusion with the russians is on the clinton side and through the hiring of fusion gps and getting into the russian dossier. >> how can you say that? they hired a british agent who interviewed russians? one of the things we have seen, charles blow is papadopoulos talking to a russian about gaining dirt on hillary clinton. sharing it with higher ups in
the clinton campaign. papadopoulos being encouraged to go to russia. that's before considering the june 2016 meeting don jr. was at with the russians. >> that's the thing. you have to buy into the concept that there was an epidemic of amnesia. that everybody forgot all of these contacts they were having with the russians. came out, constantly saying, there are no contacts whatsoever. everybody said no contacts whatsoever. now what we're finding is that one after another, these were all lies. and maybe they all forgot. if you believe that, as a journalist. been in journalism for 25 years. i can't believe that. there's no way that that happens. >> there may not be collusion or criminality. >> collusion is not a legal term. we often say that. >> it's not a legal term. but we are using it. it appears this is not going to be the last perjury charge we see out of this investigation. >> how worried are the people you talked to inside the white house? >> they're pretty worried.
you have staffers who are having to pay high-priced lawyers right now, who are having to go in, talk to mueller's prosecutors. and in talking to folk who is worked in the clinton administration when they were facing similar situations, part of the problem is that people don't know who to trust right now. they know that day after day, their colleagues who they have been kiting in meetings with are going to talk about what they know. >> i lived through this in the bush white house. that's the challenge. once everybody lawyers up. no one is allowed to speak to anyone else about what conversations they may or may not be having with whom. it has a dampening effect. most white houses, it happens late. the second term. we're nine months in. >> as someone who also lived through it, not only do you not know what your colleagues are saying. you don't know what the prosecutors have. that is one of the biggest
lessons we take away from robert mueller this week. in revealing what george papadopoulos has, he shows he has a lot more information than any of us knew. >> if you just tell the truth, it doesn't matter. right? >> that's fair. >> my mother always said, you tell the truth, you don't have to remember what you said. tell the truth. >> unless the truth is damning. >> well, that's the problem. if it's damning, that's one thing. if you're having sympathy for somebody because they have to hire lawyers, it's because they are getting caught up in something. if you're telling the truth, that should not matter. >> i was in the white house earlier this week talking to the communications team. this is very focusing. they're focused on the president's trip to asia. on tax reform. this has the opportunity of making sure you are focused on the things you -- >> you think they compartmentalized the russia questions outside the day-to-day operations? >> it's not coming up in the day-to-day operations. everything -- again, i was there earlier this week. it was focused on tax reform. the president's trip to asia. >> that's not entirely true. the president himself is quite
focused on this. the staffers may be trying to compartmentalize. the person at the top of the organization, he was spending hours in the residence on monday morning when he could have been focused on the asia trip, tax reform, he was focused on the russian investigation. >> read the twitter feed. let talk about taxes, quickly. sara, you heard the two congressmen. senator james lankford saying he can't vote for a tax increase that increases the deficit, increases the debt. is this bill on track to pass by christmas or more trouble than that? >> i think it will be tough to get it passed by christmas. i think it will ultimately pass. this is a once-in-a-generation opportunity for republicans. there's an understanding across the board that, that if republicans blow this opportunity, it's going to be an ugly november 2018. and, most importantly, though, you know, i have worked around politics in the advocacy community for 20 years. i have never seen washington as organized.
in terms of people moving in one direction. there are some groups, groups that are opposed to this. the business community, the broader conservative movement is coming together in way i have not seen in decades. >> i wish we had more time. thank you all very much. that's all for us today. thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news" tonight. i'll see you tomorrow on "gma."
a bridge shut down over politics. their biggest triumph was a traffic jam. chris christie and kim guadagno's failures shortchanged our future. after 8 years- incomes are down, costs are up and our economy is crawling. we are better than this. i'm phil murphy together we'll build a stronger, fairer economy that works for every new jersey family. christie and guadagno left new jersey stuck. i'm serious about moving new jersey forward.
>> the major-party candidates for philadelphia district attorney on "inside story" right now. ♪ good morning, everyone. i'm matt o'donnell. it is sunday, november 5, 2017, and welcome to a special edition of "inside story," where we're going to meet the two major-party candidates for philadelphia district attorney. to my right, we have beth grossman, the republican candidate. good morning, ms. grossman. >> good morning. happy to be here. >> and larry krasner, the democratic candidate. good morning, mr. krasner. >> good morning. >> all right, let's get right into this, and we're gonna start with restoring dignity to the office that both of you seek. seth williams, the last person elected to that office, district attorney, is now in a jail cell, and he's likely gonna be there for the next five years for accepting a bribe, and we're gonna start with you, mr. krasner. why are you the best person to restore dignity to the office, boost morale