tv CBS This Morning CBS June 19, 2012 7:00am-9:00am EDT
good morning. it is tuesday, june 19th, 2012. welcome to studio 57 at the cbs broadcast center. i'm charlie rose. gayle king is off today. the pressure grows on attorney general eric holder after federal prosecutors lose another high-profile case. plus, president obama meets face to face with russia's president putin, and when it was over, they could barely look at each other. i'm erica hill. a scandal at the state department takes down a potential ambassador. plus, can microsoft take a bite out of apple? we'll show you what they're doing to try to get back to the top of the tech world. but first, as we do every morning, we begin with a look at today's "eye opener," your world in 90 seconds.
>> it's been a hard five years. >> the federal government strikes out. >> roger clemens found not guilty on all six counts. >> charged back in 2008 when he denied using steroids or human growth hormone. >> the prosecutors' star witness says that he injected clemens repeatedly. >> too many jurors watch "csi: miami." i mean, testimony means nothing to these people! it wasn't exactly the return of the cold war, but there was a mighty chill at the g-20 summit. >> president obama and vladimir putin barely made eye contact. >> can find constructive ways to manage through any bilateral tensions. prosecutors in florida have released jailhouse phone calls made between george zimmerman and his wife. >> total, everything, how much are we looking at? >> like $155. >> which the prosecutors say is code for $155,000. >> the state says those calls prove zimmerman lied that he was
too broke to post bond. microsoft jumping into the computer hardware business, introducing its first tablet called surface. >> their version of the ipad from microsoft, yeah. the actual announcement was, you're probably not going to buy this. museum workers in houston are trying to save a pricey picasso after this was targeted by a brazen vandal. >> balotelli with a spectacular effort! in china, traffic was brought to a standstill when a farmer took his 5,000 ducks on a stroll. back-to-back one-hitters for r.a. dickey! >> on "cbs this morning." in greece, talks could produce a coalition government as early as today. >> greece did the responsible thing. you don't normally expect that from a country whose whole language is written in frat symbols. captioning funded by cbs
welcome to "cbs this morning." one of baseball's greatest pitchers is celebrating a major victory. on monday, a jury in washington found roger clemens not guilty of charges that he lied to congress when he said he had never used performance-enhancing drugs. >> outside the courthouse, clemens got emotional talking about the charges. >> all you media guys that know me and follow my career -- [ applause ] i put a lot of hard work into that career, and so, again, i appreciate my teammates that came in and all the e-mails and phone calls. >> there is one more case of federal prosecutors taking on a high-profile defendant and then losing in court. bob orr is in washington this morning with more on that part of the story.
bob, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, erica. good morning, charlie. well, as you say, the acquittal of roger clemens is indeed another bitter defeat for the u.s. justice department, but it's just one of the issues that has attorney general eric holder on the political hot seat. it was the second time federal prosecutors struck out in their efforts to convict roger clemens. defense attorneys accuse the justice department of a witch hunt, saying 100 agents conducted more than 200 interviews, attempting to prove clemens lied to congress when he denied using steroids. >> i have never taken steroids or hgh. >> reporter: and the clemens acquittal comes just weeks after prosecutors failed to get a conviction in the case of former senator john edwards. >> i do not believe i did anything illegal. >> reporter: the two cases cost doj millions. attorney general eric holder has drawn heat for the high-profile failures, but his nastiest personal fight is with congress. it centers on "fast and furious," the botched gun-running sting conducted by the atf.
republicans accuse holder of withholding documents which may reveal who was responsible for the debacle. holder defends his actions. >> i'm the attorney general that put an end to the misguided tactics that were used in "fast and furious." >> reporter: opponents say holder's decisions are driven by the administration.at defending now presumptive republican presidential nominee mitt romney and scores of gop lawmakers are calling for holder's resignation. >> say that you leave me no alternative but to join those that call upon you to resign your office. >> i don't have any intention of resigning. >> reporter: author and journalist dan cliden says the attorney general is always a favorite target in an election year. >> it's a sensitive position at the intersection of law and politics and investigation, and you're often kind of in the crosshairs. but eric holder has had a particularly rough ride. >> reporter: what may leave the greatest mark on holder's legacy is his retreat in a major terror
case. in november 2009, he vowed to try the 9/11 conspirators, including khalid shaikh mohammed, in a civilian court just blocks from ground zero. public resistance forced holder to scrap those plans and return the case to military prosecutors at guantanamo bay. there have been major successes. holder's justice department secured convictions against key terror suspects -- the underwear bomber, the times square bomber and the terrorist plotting to bomb new york city subways, and just as recently has made record recoveries, more than $4 billion in health care fraud cases. >> even his critics say that he's savvy. he's good on the law. he seems to run into trouble on the pot politics of this. >> he'd probably be the first to say that he's not the most adept politician out there. over time, some of these controversies don't seem quite as important years from now. >> reporter: holder, a close
personal friend of the president's, is clearly weary, but he's expected to stay on through the election. still, we have to say, he faces more battles. for example, later today, he'll meet with republican house members on that "fast and furious" case, hoping to avoid being cited for contempt of congress. ka charlie, erica? >> bob orr, thank you. legal analyst jack ford is with us now. so, clemens, second failed attempt by doj. what happened? >> i think what happened is pwere essentially saying to the jurors, we have one witness for you and we have some window dressing about whether roger clemens did, in fact, use steroids, and that in effect he lied when he said he didn't, and this was brian mcnamee. if you're a prosecutor and you have only one witness in a high-profile case, you'd better hope it's a good one. and as the defense said to the jurors, would you believe this guy if you were going to buy a used car from him? and they acknowledged him lying and changing his story.
so chances are you're not going to get a conviction. >> clemens first, and this case. is there something wrong with the way they pick cases to prosecu prosecute? >> first of all, there's a value to high-profile cases. it sends a message to the public that no matter who you are, there will be consequences if you violate the late. so we've always embraced the notion of high-profile cases. the flip side is, you're not going to win every high-profile case. prosecutors don't win all of them. they win most of them, not all of them. sometimes there's a tough case you have to take on. but if you're going to pick and choose a high-profile case, you'd better pick one where you have a really good shot. john edwards, people are saying why did they prosecute him? the federal election committee said we don't want to go after him for this money, so there are real questions about that. roger clemens again is a value to saying you can't lie in front of grand jury and you can't lie under oath in a congressional investigation. it's the integrity of the prosecutor. but critics are saying for roger
clemens, it wasn't a grand jury and this wasn't, critics are saying it wasn't even a legitimate congressional hearing it was just a show, you know, it wasn't designed to lead to any real legislation. so, that's where you're seeing critics focusing on both of those cases. >> one of the things bob brought up is the question of whether or not eric holder knows how to play politics. at the end of the day, how political should the office of the attorney general be? >> short answer, not political at all. in fact, we see in history, we go back -- you're a little younger. charlie and i remember the saturday night massacre -- >> take that back. >> whoa, boys! >> she's young and lovely, you and i are kind of old. but nixon fired not one, but two attorney generals in one night. >> right. >> because he was saying stop doing something, and they said you don't tell us. we're the ones to go after the cases. but we've seen a lot of instances in history where it seems the attorney generals are going where politics take them. short answer is politics is not supposed to have anything to do with it. search for the truth.
>> and when david axelrod was here, a question i had for him was about the fact that he pushed for somebody for the office from within the justice department. thank you. as the g-20 economic summit wraps up in mexico this afternoon, president obama and other world leaders are set to call for more efforts to improve economic growth and to create new jobs. >> on monday, mr. obama met with russian president vladimir putin to discuss several issues, including the uprising in syria. nora o'donnell is traveling with the president in los cabos, mexico. nora, what do we know about putin and obama? >> reporter: well, good morning. it was their first face-to-face meeting since vladimir putin regained power, and the meeting lasted nearly two hours. as one top adviser to the president said, they started talking about syria and they didn't want to stop talking about syria. but it was so interesting, in their remarks after their meeting, the two men barely looked at each other. you could just feel sort of the
tension between them. and the body language really represented how far apart the two leaders remain on the issue of syria. now, they said that they both support some political transition, but it's clear that president obama did not get an agreement from russian president putin to push bashar al assad out of power. that's what the u.s. wants. they think that's the way to end the violence in syria. and interestingly, apparently, president obama got a bit of a lecture from putin about some other failed transitions that are going on around the world. the issue for russia, of course, they blocked two u.n. security council resolutions, is that they have an important strategic foothold in syria. that is their one foothold in the middle east. it's the port there. u.s. intelligence officials believe there is already a ship on the way to that port carrying some attack helicopters. they could be used to silence the opposition. we've also learned there are other two ships in the black sea, a russian port that's maybe headed to syria with some arms
and ammunition. so, this is heating up. that meeting was clearly very tense. it's not clear how productive the meeting was in the end, charlie. >> nora, anything going on with respect to the g-20's reaction to the greek vote and what might be happening in terms of europe and sovereign debt and that crisis affecting the rest of the global economy? >> reporter: well, that is the big issue for the leaders of the world's largest economies that are gathered here. they're going to put out a statement today that they are united behind a decision. but look, the key meeting happens two weeks from now in brussels amongst these european leaders, where they are going to come together, and hopefully, put together some broad agreement that will give confidence to the markets, or else this could derail president obama's hopes of a second term because the contagion in europe could infect the u.s. economy. >> nora o'donnell, thank you very much. this morning, the president is looking again for a new am bass doctor to iraq. his first choice dropped out one day before a committee voted on
his nomination. >> brent kirk made the decision before racy e-mails became public. nancy has more from capitol hill. >> reporter: good morning, erica and charlie. this is one of the nation's most pivotal diplomatic posts, and as recently as this weekend, the white house was still pushing mcguirk for the job, but yesterday he withdrew, telling secretary of state hillary clinton he had become a distraction. >> as ambassador, the buck would stop with me. >> reporter: the embarrassing e-mails hit the web two weeks ago, just one day before brett mcgurk's nomination hearing in the senate. the exchanges documented a budding romance between mcgurk, who was married at the time, and gina chong, a "wall street journal" reporter posted in iraq. the e-mails range from flirtatious teasing to discussion of sexual frustration. in one, the two joked about giving chong access to classified meetings. "can i hide in your briefcase and bring a sophisticated
recording device," she asks. mcgurk, who's served five u.s. ambassadors to iraq, was already facing formal opposition from senate republicans who felt he botched sensitive security talks with the iraqis, forcing the u.s. to withdraw all armed forces from the country last year. the 39-year-old also faced questions about whether he had the experience to head america's largest embassy. with a $4 billion budget and reportedly more than 16,000 personnel in one of the world's most volatile regions. but as recently as sunday, the white house wouldn't budge. senior adviser david plouffe. >> we've made this nomination and we think he would ably serve as ambassador. >> chhon, now married to mcgurk, resigned from the "wall street journal" last week. mcgurk issued his own withdrawal letter, saying "the depiction of our relationship has been both surreal and devastating," and that "it is in the best interests of the country and our life together to withdraw my nomination and serve in another capacity."
of course, this means that the administration is now going to have to find a new nominee fast. whoever it is is going to have to deal with a deteriorating political situation in iraq, a nation where the u.s. has now spent $800 billion, charlie and erica, fighting and then rebuilding. >> nancy, thank you very much. this morning, the defense begins day two of its case of the jerry sandusky sex abuse trial. >> on monday, two of sandusky's former colleagues testified it was not unusual for boys to take showers in the coach's locker room at penn state. armen keteyian is live in pennsylvania. any idea who we will hear from today? >> reporter: yes, good morning, erica, absolutely. a legal source has told cbs news at least a dozen different witnesses are expected to testify today on jerry sandusky's behalf. some of those witnesses are expected to try to tear down the testimony of some of the alleged victims in this case, others to prop up sandusky's stature
within the community, much like the six character witnesses who testified yesterday. we've also learned not to be surprised if the defense goes after the attorney general's investigation in to penn state, charging that one of the reasons that so many of these alleged victims' testimony appears to match up is that they have been coached by police detectives in this case. we also expect to hear from a philadelphia psychologist talking about this so-called histrionic personal disorder, which is loosely defined as excessive need for attention and sexually suggestive behavior. the defense contending that that is the reason behind these so-called love letters that sandusky has written to a couple of the alleged victims, but i would be surprised if that gets much traction in this trial. >> armen, thank you very much. and another high-profile case, prosecutors have released tapes of phone calls between george zimmerman and his wife. they were recorded in april, just days aphorismerman was
arrested for the shooting death of trayvon martin. >> as mark strassmann reports, the tapes could explain why zimmerman was sent back to jail this month and why his wife was arrested. >> reporter: in six newly released jailhouse phone calls, george and shellie zimmerman are heard discussing their finances. >> in my account, do i have at least $100? [ inaudible ] >> no. >> how, how, how close am i? >> there's like $8. >> reporter: prosecutors insist the zimmermans were talking in code to hide money and claim they were broke in order for him to seek a lower bond. >> so, total, everything, how much are we looking at? >> um, like $155. >> okay, good. >> reporter: by $155, shellie zimmerman allegedly meant they had $155,000, money they raised through an online defense fund. but four days later at her husband's bond hearing, she
claimed they were penniless. >> you all have no money, is that correct? >> to my knowledge, that's correct. >> i, quite frankly, from the state position, will flat out call it what it is. the defendant's wife lied to this court. >> reporter: judge kenneth lester agreed. >> revoke his bond. >> reporter: he revoke ed zimmerman's bond and freedom. shellie zimmerman was later charged with perjury. the phone calls also revealed george zimmerman had safety worries. he advised his wife to buy three bullet-proof vests, one for each of them and his lawyer. >> as uncomfortable it is, i want you wearing one. >> reporter: another bond hearing is scheduled for a week from this friday. >> he may spend the rest of his time in jail if judge lester decides he can no longer trust him. >> reporter: o'mara says both zimmermans owe the judge an apology. for "cbs this morning," mark strausberg. time to show you this morning's headlines from around the globe. "the new york times" looks at a shift in immigration.
asians are now the largest wave of new immigrants in the united states. they've also surpassed hispanics as the fastest growing racial group in america. the virginian pilot of norfolk reports on an uproar at university of virginia after trustees forced president theresa sullivan to resign earlier this month. she had been president of uva for two years. as they met on monday, students, faculty and staff rallied outside to support sullivan. "usa today" says airlines are racing to attract corporate passengers with bed-like seats and faster web service. the revenue from those passengers helps the airline make up from fuel prices and more competitive against bigger airlines. the "l.a. times" says adidas is pulling a design off the market. it features a shackle worn around the ankle. critics say it brings back the image of slavery. adidas apologized to those offended. and the "new york daily
news" says federal authorities are suing to recover a rare dinosaur fossil. they say the skeleton described as a cousin of the t-rex was looted from mongolia. it was auctioned last month for more than $1 million. >> announcer: this national weather report sponsored by the capital one rewards card with a 50% annual bonus. get 50% more cash.
democrats and republicans are set to spend billions of dollars to elect a president. can they ever get their money's worth on all those tv ads? this morning, we'll take a close look at the struggle for the hearts and minds of voters. and microsoft charges in to the tablet wars with the surface, hoping to take business away from the competition. >> there is no such thing as the tablet market. there is the ipad market. >> we'll try out the new gadget to see if it has a chance against the ipad, ahead on "cbs this morning."
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make way for ducklings. oh, my goodness. the mallard family in boston has nothing on this group of ducks in china. >> oh, my god. >> this is about 5,000 ducks. just out for a sunday stroll in china. every year, a local farmer takes his flock, they're a well-behaved flock, by the way, three quarters of a mile to swim at a local farm. he says he never loses a single bird. welcome back to "cbs this morning." >> i like that story very much. >> it is a good story. >> it is a good story. didn't you like it, frank? >> it's beautiful. all right, this presidential race is expected to be more ducks, they might do better, right? this presidential race is expected to be the most expensive ever. the campaigns and their supporters will spend billions of dollars on television ads before it is all over.
longtime republican strategist frank lutz has studied hundreds of these tv spots. he says most of them don't work, but he brought a few of them that do. good morning. >> good morning. you get about 20% that actually help the candidate that they're designed to support. 20% turn people off, and that's what's amazing about this, because they don't understand the ad, it's too complicated, it's too gimmicky. and so, the person watching it ends up supporting the other candidate. >> so, how do you determine -- we're going to look at some -- how do you determine the difference between those that turn them off and those that impress them? >> we use instant response and they react on a second-by-second basis. it's operated by a remote control and they turn it up for every phrase, every word, every individual. we can find out second by second whether something works, impacts them, or turns them off. >> for people at home, that's was we're looking at, the results of dial testing, where people sit in the room and watch the ads and basically turn their reaction to it. we have a couple ads as charlie mentioned. first is from the obama campaign. let's look at that.
>> as to what to do for the housing industry specifically, don't try and stop the foreclosure process. let it run its course and hit the bottom. i can say i applaud it. it's an excellent piece of work. i was a severely conservative republican governor. >> and we should point out, we're actually having to condense these ads so that they're a little bit shorter. >> right. but you still got the point with that one. number one, you hear romney's words and they're turned against him. number two, that the housing market should hit a bottom or that detroit -- he says detroit should go bankrupt? his own words are being used against him, which makes it credible. and number three, he's dealing with issues. the ads that deal with issues that people care about, that aren't random, those are the ads that are most effective. >> so, since they're his words, how does a romney campaign respond to that, whether it's in an ad or some other way? >> the only way they do it is by using barack obama's words, that
they have to kind of turn the tables. it's political jujitsu. >> and we have one of those. here's a version from the romney campaign. >> i'm in this race to tell the lobbyists in washington that their days of setting the agenda are over! they will not work in my white house. >> the administration has hired several lobbyists. the president of a lobbying firm that worked for general motors and fannie mae. >> sally stutsman. >> the powerful lobbying shot. she's worked for the president and donated money for the president. >> do you think that's effective? >> oh, it's incredible. by the way, first one had a tick-tock. it sounded like a stopwatch, so this one's got the whole violin section of the new york philharmonic and it adds to the intensity. but why this works is because you've got journalists, news organizations that aren't partisan or political taking an opinion, showing the contradiction between what obama said and what he did. and here's key for that one -- you think it's a pro-obama ad, and so obama voters themselves are watching it, and it physically, as we're dial testing it, as they realize that
it's not pro-obama, that it's taking him on, they turn away from the camera further and further, almost like a horror film. when you know the woman's going to get killed, but you can't look away, but you're still kind of like this, that's the best of all. it sucks you in to watch it. >> is that also why free media is the best of all in terms of making your points? >> the fact is, if something is said on this show and they take this show and put it into an ad, that's got more credibility than anything else because they think that you don't have an ax to grind. >> we've talked about the things that work and showed a couple examples. what doesn't work? >> gimmicks, anything that shows visual trickery. we want authenticity, we want some sort of genuine response. we want to hear their words. so, if it's a game. usually humor doesn't work because it usually turns people off, even though they're laughing. so, anything that takes you away from the reality of what the candidates are saying. >> or too inside baseball, too inside washington? >> where they don't understand it, where the language doesn't work, doesn't impact them. >> where do you think this race
is today? >> i think barack obama has the narrowest of leads. and if you look at it state by state, he's probably, if you held the election today, he'd probably get about 300 electoral votes, but the trend is in romney's favor. romney's language has improved in the last two or three weeks and obama's had a tough time economically, and the immigration issue may turn this for the next few weeks, but obama, in the end, has to be able to defend that the economy is getting better and the public will see brighter days ahead. and romney's pushing him at this point. it's really too close to call. >> good to have you here, frank. >> it's a pleasure. thank you. software giant microsoft gets into the hardware business, unveiling a tablet which it hopes will challenge apple's ipad. so, will it? we'll ask tech expert david pogue if the biggest tech company of the '90s could finally be staging a comeback. and tomorrow, we'll talk presidential politics with republican senator marco rubio. you're watching "cbs this morning." [ male announcer ] imagine facing the day
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a look at mark zuckerberg on tv. the guy was 19 when he invented facebook. he's worth gagillions of dollars. another guy invented instagram. do you know what that is? >> you take a picture and send it to your buddies. >> well, you take a picture with your iphone and basically, the instagram, you hit a button and it makes it look old. he sold that for $1 billion to zuckerberg! i'm looking at my kids going, hey, can we come up with an app here? >> makes it look old. >> i'm going to be doing "ice age 9" in about five years if we don't come up with an app. [ bleep ] book, anything, i don't care! >> put your kids to work. >> i am going to put my kids to work. that's a great idea. sales of tablet pcs are expected to triple in the next two years. all the major tech companies, of course, want to get a share of that market. >> the newest challenger to apple's ipad is software giant
microsoft. ben tracy shows us what the company calls a whole new computing circus. >> reporter: this is microsoft's new weapon in the tablet wars. while similar in size and weight to other tablets, surface, as it's called, does make some advances -- a built-in kickstand, a cover that doubles as a full keyboard, and it will run on windows 8, the company's new operating system. >> this time around, they've got a device that looks and feels like an ipad or an android tablet, so they're in the game. and then you know, they've done some things that the competition hasn't. >> it's the ultimate ipad. >> reporter: microsoft is clearly hoping to take a bite out of one of apple's core products. >> and we call it the ipad. >> reporter: since the late steve jobs unveiled the ipad more than two years ago, apple has gobbled up three-fourths of the tablet market, selling 67 million ipads. >> only on the new hd touchpad. >> reporter: and killing off would-be competitors, such as the hp touchpad and the
blackberry playbook. >> there is no such thing as the tablet market. there is the ipad market. >> reporter: seth rosenblatt of cnet says what microsoft now lacks is apple's app store, home to more than 700,000 user applications. >> now the windows store, which is still very new and still in development, doesn't have the depth in the app catalog. >> reporter: tech blogs have been in a whirlwind since last thursday, when microsoft sent out a plain text e-mail that simply said "this will be a major microsoft announcement. you will not want to miss it." microsoft tried to build buzz for their new product by treating it like a state secret. they wouldn't tell anyone what they were unveiling or even tell us where they were unveiling it until just hours before the event. and even though microsoft has now formally surfaced as a tablet-maker it won't say exactly how much its new tablets will cost or exactly when they will be for sale. for "cbs this morning," ben tracy, los angeles. >> david pogue writes about technology for "the new york times." we're pleased to have him here to tell us what he thinks of
this microsoft tablet. what do you think of this tablet? >> well, it looks beautiful, it's got a couple of ideas we haven't seen before, the removable face cover that turns into a keyboard. but honestly, it's two years after the ipad, and microsoft has the benefit of seeing what happened to blackberry's tablet, with hp's tablet. so we don't know when it's going to ship, we don't know the price, we don't know how microsoft's hardware partners are going to feel. microsoft has never made a computer before. usually, they let the other companies build the computers for them. they might be a little resentful. >> can -- the ipad market is how big? it's like $30 billion, $40 billion? >> yes, hundreds of millions, and it's just heating up. >> and ipad, per se, is what percentage of that market? >> the ipad is now about 65% to 70% of all tablets. and the analysts i've read after the announcement yesterday are saying that's not likely to change. >> so, what change -- what
could, though, change this for microsoft? you talked about the challenges. as ben pointed out, these apps could also be a challenge. is there anything, though, that works to microsoft's favor as they try this? >> well, what's very confusing about this surface tablet is that there's two of them, and nobody's really saying -- one is like an ipad, probably will be priced similarly, doesn't really have any apps at all that it will run. it doesn't run real windows. the other one, called pro, will probably cost as much as a superthin lab top, like 1,000 bucks, and that will run real windows, microsoft office and photo-shop. >> right. >> that in a tablet is pretty cool. >> but in terms of apps, do we know of any developers who could be looking, you know, maybe working with microsoft to develop any apps, or is it just not cool to do a microsoft app? >> oh, my gosh, there are people at microsoft who haven't slept in weeks talking to these developers. microsoft will be aggressively getting to them. in the past, they have paid them to write apps for microsoft platforms. so microsoft will be working really hard to get the essentials there. i mean, angry birds, for sure. >> so, microsoft had the
dominance in pc and along came amazon and facebook, and these companies that seized the initiative in silicon valley and in terms of the tech world. do they still have the right stuff there to compete so that it's not just amazon, facebook, apple and google? >> you know, it's funny, because we all naturally want there to be a winner. everyone wants to know, will microsoft kill the ipad? and will apple dominate forever? and actually, we don't really want that. first of all it never really happens. people say, oh, sony's a has-been. wait a minute, sony's still a multibillion dollar corporation. and second of all, we want the competition, we want the choice, we want the new ideas. any time that someone like microsoft can put the pressure on apple to create better ideas, newer designs, they should. >> also, people come to this table and they talk about the android operating system and they prefer that to apple's operating system. could that be a factor? >> that's a great question.
so, apple's policy has always been we control the choices, we're going to give you very limited options, but we're going to make it all work together, we're going to make it beautiful. so, if you have an ipad, you know that the connectors in every dock, car, hotel room will fit your tablet. microsoft won't have that. but things like android are much more open. google doesn't screen the apps like apple does. there's pornography and clumsy, cruddy apps that google doesn't care. so, one's more open and chaotic. one's more closed and perfect, you know, obsession-driven. so, it's a big difference in philosophy. >> david, great to see yo
from elvis to ella fitzgerald, mcjagger to mccartney, one man interviewed all of them and his taped conversations are a window into the world of 20th-century music. >> i can't imagine people making such a big fuss over the '60s. unless things are so dull now that they just have to, you know, think of some time where times were better. >> here's some other great voices just ahead. you're watching "cbs this morning." >> announcer: one fabric softener has that special snuggly softness your family loves. >> hi, i'm snuggle. snuggly softness that feels so good. look, i get towels fluffy... [giggles] blankets cuddly... and clothes stay fresh... [sniffs]
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feels like somehow, it's her fault. >> an emotional piece. it has been a big year for bubba watson. he won the masters in april, just a few weeks after adopting a baby with his wife. then with everything going so well, he took a month off. >> now he's back on tour and here at 57. uva uvb protection and while other sunscreens can feel greasy ultra sheer® is clean and dry. it's the best for your skin. ultra sheer®. neutrogena®. support team usa and show our olympic spirit right in our own backyard. so we combined our citi thankyou points to make it happen. tom chipped in 10,000 points. karen kicked in 20,000. and by pooling more thankyou points from folks all over town, we were able to watch team usa... [ cheering ] in true london fashion. [ male announcer ] now citi thankyou visa card holders can combine the thankyou points they've earned and get even greater rewards. ♪
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el presidente barack obama announced in a rose garden ceremony that he will not be deporting illegal immigrants brought here as children who have a high school diploma and no criminal record. this, of course, replaces our longstanding policy of not deporting them if they were really good at baseball. it is 8:00. welcome back to "cbs this morning." i'm charlie rose. gayle king is off today. >> i'm erica hill. when celebrities make it big, they have a luxury of saying no to interviews. but even if you're a big rock star, if the boss calls, you say yes. >> in this case, the boss was joe smith, former president of capitol records. he spoke on tape with many of the biggest names in music.
this morning, as jeff glor reports, we're hearing them for the first time. jeff? >> charlie, good morning. joe smith spent only a few years recording these intimate interviews, but their content covers a half century of history and offers fresh sound from some very familiar faces. >> boy, did we come a long way in ten years. i mean, we literally came from the back streets of liverpool to the front streets of america. >> reporter: in this audio recording from the mid-'80s, paul mccartney casually credits part of the beatles' success to drug use. >> sergeant pepper owes a lot to drugs, to pot. it certainly made our minds go, yeah, we could do that! >> reporter: the topic isn't novel, but the tape is. a sit-down conversation between a pop star and capitol records president joe smith. there are hundreds of them. >> how hard is it? >> right now, it's getting easier all the time. >> reporter: from 1985 to 1988,
smith recorded more than 238 hours of these one-on-one sessions. >> the idea was to put on tape the voices and the feelings of some of the greatest musicians and music figures over the years, as many as i could get to. >> reporter: ella fitzgerald, mick jagger, barbra streisand. ♪ >> reporter: smith's guest list is a who's who of popular music. he donated the entire collection to the library of congress, where each one will be digitized for public listening and learning. there's the moment when blues legend bo diddley accuses the king of ripping him off. >> elvis presley copied me and jackie wilson. he combined the two acts together. i take my hat off to him. the name of the game is make money, and that's what he did. >> reporter: or when bob dylan dismisses the decade that for many defines him. >> i can't imagine people making such a big fuss over the '60s, unless things are so dull now
that they just have to, you know, think of some time when times were better. ♪ hey, mr. tambourine man, play a song for me ♪ >> well, little richard was the, he was really the one that taught me. >> reporter: and of course, smith interviewed him as well. ♪ wop bop a loo bop a lop bam boom! tutti-frutti, oh rutti ♪ >> reporter: about the first time he ever heard his greatest hits. >> i didn't even know that i had hits. one night, i was lying in the bed and i heard "tutti-frutti." i woke up everybody, because there wasn't no telephone, i woke up everybody out of bed. i was screaming so loud, i had to wake up everybody. it sent an electric charge all over my body. >> reporter: the recordings might seem priceless for fans, but for smith, they were just another day's work. >> i'm starting to realize how important this collection is. i never thought about it that way. >> also with us, joe levy, editor of "billboard" magazine. welcome. >> thank you. >> what a treasure trove of new stuff. >> absolutely amazing.
we're talking about everyone from little richard and bo diddl diddley, founding fathers of rock and roll, to dylan, mccartney, jagger, ella fitzgerald, barbra streisand. there's so much, so much music here. >> and what do we learn from it? >> well, we learn what these people are like when they're relaxed talking to one of their peers. joe smith worked at warner brothers, he worked at electra, he ran capitol records. he was well known to them, he was important to them. he spoke their language and they were comfortable talking to them. >> so they knew who they were talking to, that it was being recorded, but did they know this would ever be made public? >> part of it, at least. they knew the book was coming out. as far as the wider release goes, look it, i think a lot of these people know that joe smith was on their side. he worked with them. >> sure. >> he was not out to get them. in these interviews, with these releases. >> right. i think that's one reason they're so relaxed in these revealing, interesting interviews. it's peer-to-peer. but this book came out in 1988, called "off the record," has an interesting story it started,
joe smith was hitting jon hamm beyond, the legendary columbia a&r guy, signed bruce springsteen. they said, you know, was he ever recorded, something like the jelly roll morton interviews that went into the library of congress and jon hamm beyond said to joe smith, no. go do that. >> so, john hammond had the idea? john hammond told him you must go do this and joe smith was like, all right, what am i doing? i'm running a record level, i have a little spare time. i'll talk to david bowie and paul mccartney. >> and hammond -- >> hammond was the one who told them. and joe smith told us at billboard, when he went to interview ella fitzgerald, she needed help setting up her stereo, so he wired up her stereo and interviewed her. >> and streisand was in her bathrobe in her hotel room. >> yeah. >> and look at the amount of stuff here. this was done a little over two years. 238 hours. >> it would take you ten days to listen to all of this material.
>> and if you want to listen to it today, how do you do that? >> well, some snippets are available i think already on the library of congress website, but you can go to the library of congress and eventually hear all of this material. and what a valuable resource to all of us, because these are, their music is immortal, but these people are immortal. >> creators are immortal, yeah. >> what do you think has been the most revealing thing you've heard so far from this, especially when you hear someone's own words and don't just read the text? >> i've only heard bits and pieces, but two things i was struck by. paul mccartney talking about writing songs on "sergeant pepper's." we saw a poster "for the benefit of mr. kite," maybe that's a song. and it's interesting to hear it in his own voice. and little richard, who's always so over the top, flamboyant, talking very calmly. >> yeah. >> talking in a natural, relaxed voice about a very different time there. was no phone. i had to wake everybody in the house up. i had to go all over town to wake them up to say my song is on the radio. >> is there a common denomina r
denominator? they all have a sense of not only the music they love and create, but also what the business is like? >> yes, absolutely. because again, they're talking to a guy who they know so well, who runs a label. >> they speak the same language. >> exactly. >> when people begin to do this, you wonder what they would say to each other, wonder what dylan would say to mccartney, that kind of thing. >> right, right. >> song writers personified. >> right. >> it would be fascinating to get one of those roundtables together. i guess this is the best representative you're going to get to that. >> you're talking about one archive where you have george harrison, paul mccartney, mick jagger, bob dylan, robert plant from led zeppelin. he talked to so many people. everyone is there. >> and it's not always -- it's not always what -- you asked about what was so significant. >> yeah. >> it's not always what they say here, it's the tone. >> yeah. >> and it's just getting these artists in this conversational environment. you're used to seeing them bomb baskic at times, on stage.
>> well, like the little richard interview. >> and they are off guard and they are open and honest, and at times quiet, and it's just, it's a side you don't and we haven't seen. >> this is the kind of thick that's part of our national treasure. >> absolutely, and now officially there will be a national treasure in the library of one of the goals and benefits of working out is, of course, losing weight, but you're going to meet some women who actually say they're gaining a lot more in their endeavor. just ahead this morning, how
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excuse not to exercise. more women, though, are actually finding an excuse to exercise, because they found that working out together is the best way to challenge themselves as they get older. >> we met a group of women who said it's helping them get through midlife in more ways than one. >> all right, let's do ten more seconds. >> reporter: kira stokes runs her training camp like it's an elite athletic team. >> ten, nine. >> reporter: but in reality, it's a group of mostly 40-plus women who have decided working out and working out hard is a top priority. >> you can be in your 40s, into your 50s and still challenge your body and still get in the best shape of your life. it's not over when you hit 40 anymore. >> reporter: but that wasn't always the case. in generations past, getting fit wasn't exactly what it is now. women rarely broke a sweat. a game of tennis with friends -- ♪ let's get physical, physical or donning a pair of leg warmers
and a leotard constituted a workout. >> push, come on, push, push! power, guys, power! use those legs, push! >> reporter: today, getting physical is much more literal, and women are finding the benefits stretch far past toned triceps. >> press back. hold it! stay there! >> reporter: and tighter thighs. >> we all have to start out with something in common, which is wanting to get in shape. and we get to know each other and talk about other things. you feel like you've got kind of a support system. >> green pepper, onions. >> reporter: whether it's simple recipes or health issues, they're sharing more than sweat and sore bums. >> there's something about working out that, although you're working hard, there's something that allows you to emotionally relax and kind of talk about things that, in a more serious setting, you wouldn't be willing to open up about. >> reporter: that environment is something joanne definitely appreciates. at 46, she's dealing with a divorce and uses the group as a form of therapy.
>> coming here a lot kind of kept me together. i think a lot of times i'd wake up and be in a difficult place and i always knew that i'd have these ladies kind of giving me the physical strength and emotional strength. >> reporter: kira's women have figured out that a lot of endorphins and a little comradery is a powerful combination. >> bringing you up emotionally and gives you strength as well. i think we all need that. >> nice job! >> lee woodruff is with us on the set with elizabeth cutler and julie rice, who created the soul cycle studios. they offer an intense workout to more than 12,000 people every week. if you're not familiar, it's a spinning class, but sort of works your whole body, not just the legs. nice to have you all here in the studio this morning. >> thank you for having me. >> good morning. >> you set out a few years ago
to create something that you thought there was a void when it came to a really intense workout. did you ever think, though, that this many women would gravitate towards it? >> i mean, it's been an amazing journey for us to see people really connect to the workout and find something that was very special to them that they could continue to do on a regular basis and make a part of their lives. >> you had said something at one point, this is sort of the new book group. this is -- women are coming together, and this is what we saw in kira's class, talking about their issues, divorce, breast cancer. these women are all meeting regularly and using it also as a therapy in addition to getting healthy and fit. >> they do. they find a camaraderie, they find a connection and they feel like somebody's really got your back. julie and i talk about that a lot. people create these communities that are sort of unexpected but very powerful. you end up having your friends from your fitness workout. >> fitness itself is easier when you're doing it with a community of people, there's mutual support from that. >> it really allows people to push themselves further than
they could on their own. it gives people the support and pthe strength and sort of the extra oomph they need to go a little bit further. >> this is, i mean, your piece really focuses, though, too on women later in life. we're seeing more of a trend, women in their 30s, 40s, 50s, wanting to be in better shape than they were in their 20s. are you finding there are more older women now making this a priority? >> watch the older terminology. >> i mean that in a good way. >> i think definitely women are coming together after having children, these second careers, you know. it's a time in life where, you know, in decades gone by we've seen women sort of, you know, stop working out, and now people are really refocusing on making working out a priority. and i think that they are definitely really finding strength and energy. >> it's about getting powerful is what we heard. and the other interesting thing is one of the women said to me, my family used to think of this as a luxury. they used to say, you know, your mom, uyou're so privileged you're going out to do this.
and she said now they understand it's a necessity for me to be happy and to feel good about myself. then everybody else is -- >> corporate america understands it, too. >> yes. >> they make sure they have time and provide facilities for people to do this. >> charlie, do you have apps like kira's? that's what i want to know. >> you do run very regularly. >> yes, yes. play sports, too. rowing, things like that, too. >> and it all works. >> i'm not sure i have abs like anybody. >> did you see me in the exercise video? did you see what a dork i was? >> you're not a dork! >> doing this whole thing and i'm in the back missing my step and falling over. >> oh, but there's hope for you. >> you know, there's hope for all of us, yeah. >> come to soulcycle today. >> have you been there before? >> she's a regular. >> oh, a regular, oh! >> yeah, check out her abs. >> i'm one of those people who thinks if you can get it in, exercise can be like therapy. >> i do, too. it's like breathing, they say. >> it is like breathing. >> if you treat it like breathing, you'll be already. >> lee woodruff, elizabeth cutler, julie rice, nice to have you with us.
just ahead, charlie's been waiting for this moment. bubba watson is back. his first major golf championship and his first child arriving within two weeks of each other. there he is, shaking his groove thing. bubba watson back to dance in the green room. he'll bring those moves out to the table in studio 57 in just a minute. charlie, maybe he can teach you some those moves, what do you think? >> that young man has moves, i can tell you that. and we've seen them before on the course and also in his dvds. we'll be right back. stay with us. >> announcer: this portion of "cbs this morning" sponsored by stanley steemer, beyond carpet cleaning. mashed potatoes and gravy. it's my turn...
it's my turn. mac 'n cheese... mashed potatoes and gravy! mac 'n cheese. mashed potatoes and gravy what are you doing? what are you doing? mac 'n cheese! should we tell em we got two free sides? and miss this? say "mashed potatoes!" never! [ male announcer ] buy any kfc 10 pc meal or larger and we'll throw in 2 more large sides, free. that's 2 extra sides of your choice and one happy family. today tastes so good. prince william is about to turn 30. he and his wife, catherine, duchess of cambridge, joined his grandparents at monday's annual order of the guard service at windsor castle. one of prince philip's first appearances since being hospitalized earlier this month.
♪ driving through the streets of new york this morning with mobile q. welcome back to "cbs this morning." golfer bubba watson has had kind of a busy year, to put it mildly. in march, he and his wife angie adopted a baby boy, caleb. a couple weeks later, he won the masters. >> after that, he took a month off before playing in the u.s. open last week. this weekend he returned to the
tour of his first pga win, the travelers championship. great to have you back in studio 57. welcome. how is caleb doing is the first question? >> great. he's been giggling, laughing the last few weeks. he's been sleeping through the night, so it's perfect. >> you took him to a baseball game last night? >> his second baseball game, and he saw the one-hitter, so it was nice. the mets game. >> the win of webb simpson. if you couldn't win, is he one of the people you'd look to see win? >> sure. he'sgreat character on and off the golf course, a great inspiration to a lot of young kids, the work he does. it's great to see. >> he has a young child. >> for sure. he's got another on the way, yeah. yeah. >> speaking of the u.s. open, you didn't make the cut. >> no, i didn't, no. >> how many times do you do that? >> a lot more than most. you know, it was the toughest golf course i've ever played, the way they had it set up, it was just very difficult. the golf course beat me, you know. but you know, you hope to learn from it and move on, and next
year get better and better at the u.s. open. >> tiger, you played with tiger and phil. >> yeah, the first two days. >> tell us about the two of them and you being out there with them. >> well, they're both great champions, you know. they both won so many times. tiger's obviously won like 73 times, 74 times. and phil's won 40 times. but playing with those guys, you learn a lot. you know, they're a little older than me, they've done a lot more things than i have in their career, so i just learn from them. i watch them and how they go about their business and produce good golf. >> do you talk to them? i mean, is the conversation ongoing or are they so focused that there's no time for that? >> you talk about things. you talk about family, how everybody's family's going, all the kids. now that we all have kids, with my new adoption. so we talked about those things. but when it comes down to golf, we're focused on the golf and trying to perform. so you have small talk here and there during the round. >> so the course beat you. >> the course just beat me. it was a lot better than i was this week, yeah. >> what's it been like for you, though, since you won the masters? how does that change things for you now when you go out on the
course? >> it's different, you know. i have a lot more fans, a lot more people seeking autographs. so, i just have to make time for them and let them know that i do care about them and it's nice that they support me. >> do you feel like there's more pressure on you? >> no. i always put pressure on myself, no matter if you're playing the travelers championship or at the masters. >> but you also, we talked about family a little bit in the beginning. you said you talk about it with the guys on the tour now. you've made that much more of a focus now that caleb's in your life now, too. >> for sure. my wife comes first, then the baby comes second. and for me, it's just, it's a blessing to have an adopted son. hopefully, give a positive light to his life and then somewhere down the line is golf and my profession. >> charlie asked you earlier, when will he get a golf club in his hands for the first time? >> yeah. and you've thought about that? >> i have thought about that, for sure. you know, we have plastic clubs. rickie fowler gave us some plastic clubs for him and decorated them for him. >> i want to talk about your swing. this is "golf digest," the driving issue.
drive is one of the things you do really well. just tell me what i'm looking at there. well, first of all, look, the backswing is way back. >> yeah, the back swing goes past parallel. i swing it pretty hard, probably one of the fastest on tour with club head speed, and i just rear back and hit it. i've never been taught, so i just play by feel and i just feel that and just hit it, and it looks crazy. it's probably something you won't teach, but it works for me. >> and you and webb simpson had it very different. you grew up one way and he grew up another way. he's a guy who played augusta even as a teenager. >> for sure. and he grew up with just a belly putter. i've never used a belly putter. so yeah, we've got many off-the-course we're alike, but on the course we're very different. >> talk about tiger, for example. people thought he was back. is he back, in fact, but has not won? you had a chance to see him out there when people were saying he's doing everything the old tiger was doing. >> no, he's back, for sure. you know, you're always going to
have slip-ups. since he's started the game back in the early days in the mid-'90s, he's produced a lot of countries have grown in the game of golf. he's developed many young kids and their approach to the game of golf and they're getting better, and all of golf is getting better. and so, his competition level is, he's playing against a lot better players now, and i think that he's won twice this year. he just hasn't won a major, but he's playing pretty good and he's going to be back. >> no doubt in your mind he'll win a major? >> oh, sure. he's definitely going to win again. >> do you think he'll beat jack's record, 18 majors? >> you know, if he stays healthy, i think for sure, you know, because he's still got ten years to get to where jack was, you know? so, he's got ten years to produce four more victories. >> anything you would change about your game at all? >> um, there's a lot of stuff. >> too many. >> yeah. >> how do i start? >> exactly. putting. you know, you always want to make more putts, but i practice
putting. that's the thing i work on the most. but you know, the ground sometimes bounces the ball a certain way, and sometimes you make putts, sometimes you don't. but obviously, improving putting would be every golfer's -- >> and with all the attention you're getting, there's no chance you'll lose your focus and lose your love for the game? >> no, the game has brought me everything. the game has brought me to where i am today. it's brought me many different trips around the world. the game has brought me to meet my wife at university of georgia. so, there's no way i'll fall out of love with this game. >> when you look ahead to what might be coming up, when you size up the field for us, i mean, who attracts your attention as someone we ought to keep our eye on, beyond phil and beyond rory and beyond webb simpson -- >> how about keep our eye on bubba? >> bubba. >> i'm in the midage, i'm the 30-something that everybody, you know, you lose hope on those guys. but rickie fowler, this patrick that's deciding to turn pro. you have young guys coming up, young americans that are going to produce, and rickie's got the
flair for the game and he does a lot of crazy stuff off the field there. >> it's great to have you here. >> thank you. >> good luck in the travelers. >> thank you very much. >> think you could win this one? >> i think so. i've won it before, so we're going to try to produce some good scores. >> and caleb will be there. >> caleb will be there, for sure. >> thank you. peasure. >> cbs sports will have live coverage of the travelers championship this saturday and sunday right here on cbs. the senate republican leader is a powerful voice in america. mitch mcconnell talks about the president, the [ male announcer ] this was how my day began.
senate republican leader mitch mcconnell is one of the most powerful men in washington with all the gridlock between white house and congress over big issues, his role is more important than ever. senator mcconnell joins us now in studio 57. we're pleased to have him here. welcome. >> pleasure to be with you. >> good to have you in new york.
tell me this, many people talk about the problem in europe is they can't make a decision. >> no. >> and kick the can down the road. in washington, they talk about dysfunction. what can be done about that, other than changing the politicians who are in washington? >> the biggest challenge we have, charlie, for the future, is the unsustainable path of our entitlements, very popular programs, the eligibility for which needs to be adjusted in order to meet the demographics of america. regretfully, after six months of discussions the speaker and i had with the president, the president was unwilling to make those kind of eligibility changes unless we gave him such a huge tax increase that it would have brought the economy to a halt. >> would this atmosphere of dysfunction or compromise that did not happen have been better if you and the president spent
more time together? is that part of the problem? mitch mcconnell, the republican leader in the senate, is not seeing on a personal basis barack obama? >> this was not a frivolous debate. this was not about personality conflicts. this was about a major decision that we have to make now that we have a debt the size of our economy, which makes us look a lot like greece. what do we want to be like? >> where is the head of mitch mcdonnell because of the influence he has in the republican senate? >> i'm ready to sit down with this president or the next president, have the same discussion we had last year and reach a conclusion. i understand full well that our friends on the other side live every day to raise taxes. i know that. i know it's important to them. >> they would argue -- obviously, you know they would argue we live to do something about the budget debt and the fiscal deficit. if we don't do something on both the spending and the revenue side -- >> can i address that issue?
>> sure. >> almost 70% of the federal revenue is provided by the top 10% of taxpayers now. between 45% and 50% of americans pay no income tax at all. we have an extraordinarily progressive tax code already. it is a mess and needs to be revisited again. >> looking at everything on the table? >> revenue from our point of view is tied to serious entitlement reform. there is a way to get to the end here and to get an understanding that saves this country, but i will not make a commitment in advance about what i will or won't do. >> okay. but you are prepared for grand bargaining? >> i'm prepared for grand bargain. >> and so is the speaker, you seem to say. >> i am prepared for a grand bargain. we need to have a willing president. you don't get these deals done without a president that is serious about getting an outcome. >> and you're saying this president is not prepared to do that -- >> wasn't last year. >> because many people who know wrote about that and have suggested that in the end, when push came to shove, it was the speaker that was not prepared
for the grand bargain. >> i read the same articles. i thought we came out very well on the republican side in congress. >> all right. there is also this. the supreme court may very well decide about health care, whether it was in part or whole unconstitution unconstitutional. if the supreme court says it was in part unconstitutional, what should happen then? >> well, that's a very good question. it's hard to answer it until we know what the court does. but the main thing the american people want is to repeal the whole thing and start over. i mean, it's the single worst piece of legislation that's been passed -- >> so, a first order of a new senate and new congress might be to try to repeal obama health care if it's not declared unconstitutional? >> yeah. we need to start over. it was a huge, huge mistake, the single biggest in the direction of europeanizing america. i hope the court strikes the whole thing down, whether they find it unconstitutional or not, it's still a big mistake. we just need to start over and try to get it fixed. >> there are many issues to discuss. i hope we can do that in the
future. thank you. >> thank you. >> mitch mcconnell, from kentucky, the republican leader in the united states senate. a new book about michelle obama tells a fascinating story. author rachel swarns says she's a descendant not just from slaves, but a slave owner. that's next on "cbs this morning." mashed potatoes and gravy. it's my turn...
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♪ he's the man that we really think is swella ♪ we know president obama comes from a bi-racial family, and as it turns out, so does the first lady, though in her case, the story with a little more difficult to uncover. >> "the new york times" reporter rachel swarns has extensively researched the first lady's family tree. she reveals it in her new book "american tapestry: the story of the black, white and mult racial ancestors of michelle obama." welcome. >> thank you. >> so, tell us what you found. >> really, the book is a look at the sweep of american history through the lens of one family, michelle obama's family. and i traced the journey of her ancestors across the generations. >> going back how far? >> as far back as i could, basically, to the 1800s and even a teeny bit into the 1700s. >> and what's interesting about that journey forward? >> you know, what i was able to find was she has long suspected
that she had white ancestors in her family tree, and i was able to fill in the dots with dna testing and research. it took 21st-century technology to solve a 19th-century mystery, basically. >> so, you're a "new york times" reporter. >> yep. >> you spent a long time researching this. this was rigorous work. is she interested? i mean, is there any sense that the first lady would be very interested in knowing what you have discovered about her family? >> oh, i think she is very interested in her family. and you know, countless americans are fascinated by this kind of thing, doing genealogical research, dna testing. and i think we're all finding out that we're connected in many ways. but sometimes, those connections originate from painful places. >> you mentioned that the fascination in some ways is a very uniquely american thing, the way it is discussed in this country, sort of what you are, who you are, what your background is. is that what you continue to find in your research, in the response that you get? >> you know, i think we often
think of this day in age as a time when we've got so much immigration, so much intermarriage, so much multiracialism. but really, if you go back in history, this is not uncommon at all. mrs. obama's ancestors date back to a time when in the 18 0i890s there were 1.1 million mixed-race people in the country. >> she said that it really showed we were more connected -- i'm paraphrasing here -- than we realized. charlie is asking about her response. she has a copy of the book. do you know or has the white house told you whether or not she's read sort of the new findings from you? >> you know, i gave her office a copy of the book ahead of time, so they've had time to look at it and read it, but i don't know. i still don't know. >> tell us about melvinia. >> melvinia was the first lady's great, great, great grandmother, a slave girl from virginia who
gave birth to her great, great grandfather, who was bi-racial. >> this was what year? >> her bi-racial son was born around 1860. and the question has been who was his father? and that's kind of what i was able to uncover. >> and you found? >> i found that his owner's family is related to michelle obama. and the most likely father was melvinia's younger son, charles marion shield. >> a well-known south carolina name, i think. >> you know, they moved from south carolina to georgia. they were the descendants of irish immigrants. and they were very ordinary people. they inherited their slaves. they lived in a community where white farmers, if they had slaves at all, worked alongside their slaves. this is not the grand plantation. >> this is still, though, a americans.bject for so many - so, as you were doing this research, you went and talked to some of the descendants. what was it like when you came at them with these findings? >> well, imagine if someone were
to knock on your door and say, by the way, i think that your family may have owned the first lady's family. these are hard stories for people to hear, and it was unsettling for some of these families. and it's unsettling for many of us even now. but i think, you know, it is our history. it is who we are. >> does it help the dialogue, which is such a -- it seems increasingly, in some ways, a difficult conversation to have in this country, to talk about race. do you think this in any way makes it easier, more accessible? >> well, you know, i think people looking at this can relate a little to their own situations, and i think that people, you know, on a basic level, are having these conversations. whether it elevates it into a kind of national conversation, that i don't know. these are hard topics. >> it's easier today because of dna evidence? >> much easier. >> and so, we may just be opening the door to finding out so much more about, you know,
all the things that preceded us. >> that's absolutely right. ten years ago, it would have been impossible to do this. and in a lot of ways, it's uncharted territory for many families. you know, how do you deal with this kind of thing? how do you talk to someone who's the descendant of someone who your family-owned? >> rachel, thank you very much. >> thank you! >> rachel swarns, "american tapestry" is on sale right now. that does it for us. up next, your local news. we'll see you tomorrow right here on "cbs this morning." >> "cbs this morning." >> congratulations! >> what do they call us? >> "cbs this morning." >> thank you, david. brad pitt is with us. >> thanks, charlie. >> i'm trying not to gush, but he was something else. >> hey, charlie, how are you doing, man? >> doing well. >> charlie! >> hello! it's so wonderful to be here. >> thank you so much. >> thank you so much for having e. >> new excitement, new possibilities. >> you guys are really doing great. i think this is the combination. >> thrilled to be here. thanks for having me. >> i'd love to stay here all day. ♪
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