portland, oregon, suburb, where mall santa drops to his knees to stay safe. >> three people, including the gunman, are now dead and stunned survivors are left asking why? it is wednesday, december 12th. >>> from abc news, this is "world news now." >> good morning, everyone. i'm paula faris. >> on this 12-12-12. interesting date. the last time we'll see a day like this for 88 years, until january 1st, 2101. good morning, everybody, i'm rob nelson. serious news to get to this morning. holiday festivities turned to bloodshed and fear when that masked man went on a shooting rampage. >>> also this morning, north korea makes a bold military move, launching a long-range ballistic missile. what that means for the u.s. and for the rest of the world. >>> it's really taking the united states government by surprise, too. and hair ye, hair ye, a burglary suspect's bizarre behavior make for an interesting day in a south florida courtroom. >>> later, prosecutors really want to throw the book now at, wait for it, yeah, lindsay lohan. the punishment she could now face. that is coming up in "

details about the gunman in the deadly oregon mall shooting. >> and while we know who he was, investigators are still trying to figure out why he snapped. it's thursday, december 13th. >> announcer: from abc news, this is "world news now." >> happy thursday. we're almost to the weekend. i'm paula faris. >> good morning, everybody. i'm rob nelson. some of the people who knew mall shooter jacob tyler roberts best are now speaking out. we'll get to all of that in a moment. the chilling part is there seemed to be no signal at all. >> out of character. >> really out of character. he just snapped and that's what led to the tragedy. unbelievable. >>> also this half hour of the show, justin bieber, the target of a possible murder. police uncover what they say was a plot literally to kill the superstar. >> kill but also torture. leading up. it's a very disturbing plot. >>> also ahead, bringing babies into a labor battle. the union workers using the sound of wailing babies as a weapon. >> i can't imagine anything more effective than the sound of a screaming child. ooh. >> you'll be muc

officially steps down. >>> in oregon, the shopping mall that became the scene of a deadly shooting rampage days ago is set to reopen this morning. a candlelight vigil for the victims will be held tonight. two people were killed and the 15-year-old girl was wounded when 22-year-old jacob roberts opened fire inside the clackamas town center on tuesday. roberts then killed himself. there is still no motive for the shooting. >>> a much calmer day is in store for san diego after a pounding rainstorm drenched that city. the rain came down so fast and furious, in fact, it flooded businesses and major intersections, leaving drivers stranded in the road. some people even had to be rescued from the flood waters. >>> and the southern california mountains are buried under a fresh coat of snow this morning. and it is still coming down in fact. tire chains were mandatory for drivers heading into mountain passes and resorts like big bear. even with chains, they say the roads were still pretty treacherous. >>> we have a stunning, stunning revelation, thanks to some of the nation's top scientists.

workers stuck on a snowy oregon mountain. rescue workers got within a few hundred yards of the crew but forced to turn around when the conditions worsened. the crew was working on a cell phone tower. they are safe, however, in a small concrete building. >>> the $60 billion aid deal to help hurricane sandy survivors is hitting a snag in the senate. the debate on the emergency spending bill began yesterday. democrats are trying to pass it before christmas, but several republicans are concerned about measures attached to the bill and that seems to be the holdup. >>> in new jersey, signs of progress in the recovery. some businesses reopened for the first time since super storm sandy hit about seven weeks ago now. families may be allowed to move back to the coastal town next month. progress is slow and coming but good when it arrives. >>> coming up next, we're returning to our top story, the tragedy at sandy hook. >> the heartbreaking farewells and the big changes in the classroom across the nation, coming up. >> "world news now" continues after this, from our abc >>> welcome back, every

. >> from portland, oregon, 26 wreaths sent for each life lost. and also from sanford, north carolina, 26 christmas trees. firefighters helped line those trees along the entrance to sandy hook elementary school, and within an hour, they were all decorated. >> that's right. some of the decorations were provided by residents of long island, new york, who sent 26 christmas ornaments. >> i'm reading now online and twitter now that one way that people can kind of grieve and also honor the community and honor those victims is these random acts of kindness. i saw a friend who donated $260 to her favorite challenge. whatever you can do in the number of 26. so maybe that's a good way. if you're not there in connecticut to honor some of those victims. >> so many people feel connected to this story in many ways. >> how could you not? it is a tragically human story. so whatever any of us can do, we >>> this morning on "world news now," powerful punch. the holiday storm strong enough to unleash a mudslide to derail a train moves from west to east. >>> the heavy rainfall, the nasty snowfal

. hood, oregon. the two women and their experienced guide are in all good health. they had called 911 on sunday to say they were lost, but they did have food and sleeping bags, as well. >>> it is a somber holiday in newtown, connecticut. just days after the shooting at sandy hook elementary. but well wishers are doing their best to try and reach out. abc's linsey davis reports. >> reporter: a town in need of christmas cheer got it from across the country. in sparta, wisconsin, we saw these 26 snow angels, each for tin sent lives lost in newtown. each with a name and age. from kalamazoo, michigan, 700 bracelets from a business and students headed to newtown. flower seeds inside each of those smiling faces for the community to wear and plant. and for the newtown police department, officers around connecticut banning together, volunteering to work on christmas day so every newtown officer can have the day off with their family. and at their town hall, mountains of donated toys from all over the country. even hurricane sandy victims sending comfort and kindness from what little they h

-mckee and lia griffith from portland, oregon. both women had to wrap an enormous model airplane with an 8-foot wing span. in the end griffith walked away with the grand prize and plenty of paper to spare. >> a skill i don't have. well done, ladies. she makes it look easy. >>> up next, lia's going to join us in studio to try to wrap rob and other unusual items. i could be into that. we'll see how it plays out. we'll be back. >> announcer: "wor ♪ >> welcome back, everyone. we just saw her win a pretty extraordinary and competitive stressful competition here in new york city. >>> welcome back, everybody. we just saw her win a pretty extraordinary and competitive stressful competition here in new york city. here to show us how to do it for ourselves, gift-wrapping champion, lia griffith. and i guess we should say we're wrapping, but in the gift type of sense. you just won $10,000. pretty impressive. are you a professional gift wrapper? >> well, not professionally. i do blog about it. i have been doing it every since 6 years old i've been wrapping. >> i definitely need tips. mine are ty

be nice. >> it takes two to tango as they say. >>> let's talk about eastern oregon. nine people dead after a tour bus accident on an icy highway. the bus lost control on interstate 84 yesterday and smashed through a guard rail and plunged several hundred feet down a snowy embankment there. the bus was heading back to vancouver from las vegas. it crashed on a section of the blue mountains called dead man's pass. an area so dangerous officials warned it had some of the most severe weather conditions in the northwest. the driver survived but too badly injured to speak with police. >>> winter weather being blamed for dozens of crashes across the country. >> it is dangerous right now. people from the midwest to the northeast still trying to recover from back-to-back snowstorms. today, temperatures taking a massive dive, with some areas bracing for the chilliest air of the season. we get more now from meteorologist jim dickey. hi, jim. >> good morning. cold air in place across much of the north and east on this new year's eve. these are your early morning temperatures. 5 in burlington. 9 i

christmas decorations. >> give him some coal. >>> just like the grinch, someone in oregon is stealing christmas trees. five swiped from an outdoor lot. the first time in 51 years the family owned lot hit by thieves. sadly a significant hit for the owners who say business has been dropping dramatically in the past few years. they say more people are buying their trees at big box stores. christmas trees, if you're going to buy real trees, they're not cheap. >> how much are they? >> i paid $65 for a six-foot tree. you can pay up to $150 if you want a larger one. i just don't have any room. >> you've got tony vest in plastic. store it until next year. >> go to the bronx. >> go to the bronx. thank you, willis. >>> there are still people with christmas spirit to spare, thank goodness. case in point, 84-year-old joyce smith, decorating ever green trees along highways in iowa for more than 20 year. well, she and her husband james have decorated 60 trees so far this season. joyce brings her decorations along wherever she may go. when she went to visit her sister in another town she stopped alo

newtown and the one in oregon, both of those guguy s stole the weapons. and they got their hands on them. >> that's the abundance of guns in this country, 200 million guns. we'll be back. hey sis, it's so great to see you. you, too! oh, cloudy glasses. you didn't have to come over! actually, honey, i think i did... oh? you did? whoa, ladies, easy. hi. cascade kitchen counselor. we can help avoid this with cascade complete pacs. see, over time, cascade complete pacs fight film buildup two times better than finish quantum. to help leave glasses sparkling shiny! too bad it doesn't work on windows. okay, i'm outta here. cascade. the clear choice. when you give a child a toy, it has to work. ♪ make just one someone happy and when it's a toys for tots child, well, what could be more important? so this year, every hasbro toy donated to toys for tots will be powered by duracell. happy holidays. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere. >>> more interesting news coming out of the big apple. mayor bloomberg here is all about gun control. a few moms ago he was about limiting the size of so

mountains in oregon, a tour bus crash on i-84. drives was also disastrous in the east. there was a 20-car pileup on i-93 in new hampshire. >> there was debris everywhere. you could see it. you had to almost duck not to be hit by a tender or a drill grill. >> reporter: it was a dangerous drive in portland, maine. and in lexington, kentucky, crews worked day and night to keep that from happening. in st. louis, that did happen. it was black ice that sent this suv tumbling into an icy river. inside, a mother and her three children. >> i can only imagine what she thought with the three kids in the back seat. >> reporter: first responders jumped in and no one was hurt. it's the cold and wind in durham, connecticut. a freezing reminder that this is what winter looks like. now the coldest air of the season settles in for much of the country. chicago, one of those places that has been very mild. they haven't seen a high temperature below 32 for 308 days, until sunday. now we get into the weekend, new year's eve forecast takes you to right around 35 in times square as the ball drops. across the cou

plays out. >> we will see. >> all right. shocking story out of oregon this morning. a portland woman says she was held at gun point by two boys, ages 7 and 11. amy garrett says she was sitting inside her truck outside a church when the two boys approached and threat tuned "blow her brains out" if she didn't hand over the truck. garrett thought they were joke until the 11-year-old showed a gun. she sped away. called 911. while speaking to a reporter, the 11-year-old returned to the scene. police have returned both boys to the custody of their parents. >> unbelievable story. >> there is speculation this morning that kate middleton could be headed back to the hospital. reports in britain say the pregnant duchess of cambridge has taken a turn for the worse. just three days after being released from a london hospital, where she was treated for an extreme form of morning sickness. mean while the two radio shock jocks whose prank call to the hospital was followed by a nurse's suicide will reportedly be questioned by police. >>> all right. huge chunk of the upper midwest covered in whi

cave. in the mornings i get up and it is oregon and i have a desk for writing and the desk for drying and i like drawing better. and i work and anything in letterman's office is the most exciting adventure, ten books and believed or not i am 30 ahead that i haven't even shown, all illustrated, i am just having such a great time doing this stuff. they asked me what did i -- what were my prerequisites for writing a book and it has got to be simply a i say i am going to write it takes 15 years, i've had books take that long, i am going to finish. the other one is it can't be another book. i like subjects that have never been touched where you have the challenge of going back and digging and bringing this to life and the rule i have is tom's lawyer or mark twain came back today they would say how did he know that? that is my biggest joy. i wanted to know the name of the dog and the story of san francisco, wind directions, which shop burned, everything that went on, as alive as i possibly can. the way i got this idea, it was 1991 and i was reading, it may have been already -- a little tiny

. remember, california and oregon, the centers of power in the united states, this is one of the reason lincoln wanted to build the transcontinental railroad once the civil war begins because he wants to expand the reach of the federal authority there was fear that there would be a west coast -- if you think about why did lincoln do what he did it for some princess of carolina part of the logic of this was in the states that have already succeeded from the union, but the prospect of the country as a whole falling apart of the federal government didn't assert its power and its authority, the west coast there were some secessionist sentiments and in the midwest we can talk about new york becoming a free port of entry like britain and germany. so we look back knowing the result of all of this which of course led to the emergence of the nation states with much greater powers reached is a precarious it was for a long period of time but it's also important to recognize the slave rights in terms of the civil war it was a broad state right settlement but the only state that seceded from the uni

one to be on the west side of the capitol. mike understanding is that there was a center of oregon, ronald reagan fought and was a good idea, he was beginning to discover for the that way. he liked that idea but the biggest factor was the fact that now so many more people can view that. now they're there for you obama add delete your inauguration four years ago there were a thousand tickets and they still live tv commercials up and they stand there. but when it used to be on the east side there were about 20,000 people who could see the actual ceremony. and a lot more of course could be present for the parade and oftentimes there were more than a million but not for the ceremony itself. >> are all of the pictures you showed on the slides were those pictures in your book? >> not quite all of them, but many of them coming yes. i have many pictures in my book that are not part of the slide show that were sent here that are not in the book. >> if you take a look at the book you will see there's more than 50 pictures in the book. yes. >> [inaudible] scan it costs a lot. i don't have an

. remember california and oregon are very far away from centers of power in the united states. this is one of the reasons that lincolnmented to build a -- lincoln wanted to build a transcontinental railroad once the civil war begins because he wanted to extend the reach. there were fears -- if you think about what lincoln did what he did in south carolina, part of the logic of this was not just the states that had already seceded from the union, by the prospect of the country as a whole falling apart if the federal government didn't assert its power and its authority. the west coast, there was some secessionist sentiment. in the midwest, there was talk about new york being a free port of entry like britain and germany. we look back knowing the result of all of this, which, of course, led to the emergence, really, of a nation state for the first time, and one with much greater powers and reach than it had before, and you can forget how procariuos the union was for a long period of time, but i think it's also important to recognize, and this is about state rights and slavery in terms of

oregon is idea. getting to face california the way. the biggest factor was the fact that now so many more people can view it. now you just, just of a 2 million people there for obama's inauguration four years ago, by far the biggest. its skin -- they can give out all the like. one letter and 40-150000 tickets and the rest of the people to show up and stand there. when they used to be on the side there weren't more than about 20,000 people who could you the actual ceremony. more could be present for the parade and oftentimes there were more than a million people for the parade, but not the ceremony itself. >> are all the pictures you showed on the slides in your book? >> not quite, but many of them yes. i have many pictures in my book that are not part of the slide show. there were some here that are not in the book. if you take a look at the book you will see. there are more than 50 pictures about. >> they say it costs a lot. i don't have an exact figure, but i would hope it would it would be somewhat scaled back, not only because of the economy, but the second inauguration. by

it was a senator of oregon's idea and reagan thought it was a good idea she would be getting to face california that way. he liked that idea. but the biggest factor was now so many people can view it. now there were 1.8 million people for obama as inauguration four years ago. by far the biggest. they can give out all of that about 140 or 150,000 tickets and the rest of the people show up and stand there. but when it used be on the east side there were about 20,000 people who could view the actual ceremony to read and oftentimes there were a million people for the parade. >> are all of the pictures that you showed on the slides are those pictures. >> i have many pictures were not part of the slide show that were here if you take a look at the book you will see i've got more than 50 pictures in the book. >> yes? >> [inaudible] >> they do say that it costs a lot. i don't have an exact figure but i would hope they would be somewhat scaled back this time not only because of the economy but the second inauguration. by definition a second inauguration isn't quite the same importance as

great thing. 200 million americans get flour dated water. portland rejected this in 1980, and oregon subsequently ranked near the bottom in children's dental health. many portlanders treasure their city's quirk ri distinctiveness, said "the new york times," and i agree -- [laughter] being toothless is quirk ri and distinctive. and, basically, i'm not going to read this quote from "the new york times"esing but basically, a couple weeks ago the city counsel finally approved fluoridation to begin in 201. really, a round of applause for portland for joining the 20th century. i love portland. if you're going to san francisco, be sure the bring a plunger. low-flow toilets -- not san francisco's fault, actually signed into law by president george h.w. bush, bush 41 -- which required low-flow toilets. now, the impact of that is sludge will back up in the city's sewers, and the mission bay neighborhood, quote of of-unquote, smells like rotten eggs. they're using $14 million of taxpayer money to dump bleach into the sewer to clean up a problem that previously simply did not exist. bleach isn't

unique book television programming, in portland, oregon, street book as a library who live on the streets lending them book by baby and memphis, tennessee, real men read brings african-american men together with 3-year-olds to develop lifelong. i would like them to stand. [applause] [cheering and applause] and finally, i would like to thank my fellow board members, for their hard work and i have to acknowledge the foundation staff this year under the tirelessly leadership of harrold, listen this this week two weaks ago the foundation us a were flooded. they have not reopened. in the past three days, the staff have pulled off seven wig events including this one with no telephones, no office, no mail, computer serve ease reside in harrold's dining room all of us our heart felt thanks. [applause] [applause] ton the awards ceremony. thank you. [cheering and applause] just a few orders of business before we begin. one is that's the bookings on your table, you're allowed to take home. i'm sitting with harrold and he said you can. if you wrote one of them and taking it home. that's a lit

brad comes from matthew in portland, oregon. hi, matthew. >> caller: good morning. can you hear me? >> host: good morning. >> caller: i just like to bring up a couple women heroes i was thinking. famous in ireland in ulster, a famous warrior woman that was known the pest warrior out of all of ireland and she had a training camp in ulster where all the real high-quality warriors would go and learn from her. and a lady in -- that helicopter -- a welsh lading that helped lead a resistance against a roman invasion, and bill hooks, a famous writer, and also -- advocating for compulsory education for girls in pakistan who was tried and murdered. i'd like to make that comment. my condolences to your parents, and i love that. i love how you talked about the -- do not have to be -- more than capable of being trained to be able to defend themselves. and, yeah, so peace and love. >> host: matthew. >> guest: i appreciate that. i should also tell you that so many, matthew, of the people that got -- when we started writing "heros for my son" and i went on facebook or twitter and said please send

are. as the persian friends in oregon the ultimate result of the iranian revolution in to get business degrees and did well but the stratum below that came to the united states. whenever there is an of people we get more. those changes so dramatically. diet, food, we hear becoming the international nation. [laughter] what a wonderful description. we have time for one last question. >> from global affairs, thank you for your time. a quick comment, the map tells us for the arab-israeli peace in relation to water scarcity issues? >> turkey has all the water with the middle level power. to discuss israel in four places this is where we come down to a geographic determinism. this is precious and is more precious and more in more people are on the disputed territory. ra to it achieved. what we have been preoccupied with iran and israeli settlement building is robust. it does not gterritory. rather sellers or the rising arab birthrate. it becomes harder and harder to it achieved. what we have been preoccupied with iran and israeli settlement building is robust. it does not get much n

your background. >> i grew up in portland, oregon. i am an active mormon. and when on a mission for the mormon church. a graduate from byu and worked for the cia. then i broke out into the financial world. since then says they got married , five children to move to the mamas for two years, save enough money to move to the london worry butterfly and in pen to 71 countries. my primary source of income is my investment news article forecast of strategies that have written since 1980, but i also have 1 foot in the academic world. everett number of books on economics, @booktv and business, columbia university in new york and now mercy college. i should also mention my wife does the income from festival, so we have a film festival as well. a lot of things that we do and really enjoy it. >> what did you do for the cia? >> question. i was an economist on the brazil desk very much involved with commodities in the energy crisis in the 70's. the cia was just too bureaucratic for me. so i wanted to break out and do something more on gennaro. i get involved in the financial revolution, started being

commercial world for their advice of oregon. we can use that advice to help our nonprofit. >> when i was at random house, one of the most distinguished. they invented. the couple hundred thousand. this particular occasion it was about 300,000. it was the history of the spanish inquisition. don't worry about that. well, that was really actually in the end of the book said he recommended. a very tricky publishing. in just a mention one instance. i have told books and the library association. towboats. night and day. and i said, let me argue with my chairman about weather every book should be publishable. it can't be both. a said, these books, tell me what profit there were. came back again. lost $3,603,000 of those books. go away. go through the editors' choices. twenty-seven books of the new york times. that's the good news. now 367,000. published to that made a profit of 2 million. the world of publishing. in terms of the book, thomas said this in their defense, often publishing books then there were going to lose. we can't make it work. and then surprise surprise occasionally it does. that

this because i found out later that his life had oregon sold to mgm. so he had to pay back mgm to write schindler's list. the head of simon & schuster said, oh, don't bother. but i was quite keen on publishing this book and author. eventually i did. and i paid a shocking price in today's market. $60,000 and, of course, the book has never been out of print. steven spielberg did the movie, and i remember one he telephoned me and said we are really making a good film. [laughter] and i stayed until 1981. and i went to hell, it was much more, i learned a great deal. but houghton was an old-fashioned publisher that i was more used to. it was wonderful. the authors followed me. so for about six and a half years, that was at the time that there were all these takeovers random house -- random house was the first one to go public. and then it went into the office and said we are going public and there will be a stock offer. everything will go up, then we'll go right down again. i am not advising anyone to buy stock, i'm just telling you what to do. and then when i was at simon & schuster, g

, cottage grove oregon please go ahead with your question or comment for our author, rajiv chandrasekeran. >> caller: hello. i just want to say thank you. i've been wondering about, for a long time, it's like are just talking yesterday with someone, if we took all the money that we've been spending on the war and just help the people. of course, on one person's ideaf help is different. build nice houses, excellent -- the whole nine yards. probably would've come out saving a lot of money. but apparently that's not what they wanted. i just want to say thank you. you've answered a lot of questions in the back of my head you don't read about in the local media. >> guest: thank you for your comment. you know, i sort of joke with friends that at times, you know, had we just flown a bunch of our military cargo planes over the country and pushed out six powerless build with dollar bills we might have done more good than the billions of dollars that were spent through contractors, contractors who hired expensive security guards and only a fraction of the acts we got to the afghan pe

rattling along the heading out of california, my first date for the center of oregon and all i'm hearing from that fat little man who bubbles with fine political advice and fumes about my enemies is the press boys are going wild with this thing. i can feel my eyes glancing at the headline in the left-wing smeared sheet the new york post, secret ridge man's trust fund keep nixon in style far beyond his salary, that was one bastard of a headline. that in many ways is the point at which the crisis is instigated. i am trying to get into the mindset of richard nixon and tell the story in part through his eyes and his own experience and to a certain extent being for the guy who is having a nervous breakdown and career killing moment in what he takes to be a very important -- we all take to be a very important political career. i wanted to use the novelistic approach but i also wanted to have big themes by telling this story and what i figured i would do now is just kind of tell you about some of those big seams of interest to people who go to places like politics and prose and are inte

jersey to markets see the entire revolution. >> someone reminded me, we lived in oregon for a lot of the 90's to my family. before i went to oregon i used to go have lunch all the time. i remember this now. i was very happy after i wrote the book. a bunch of guys who work toward guides gave me free passes to the top of the empire. and that was great. we spent lunch attack. kind of obvious, but it's a great view. and so -- >> really? >> really. really great deal. i just remember, remember as a kid reading about lincoln and and saying, you know, this was where it all happened. i know, and he was trying to get votes in new jersey. but he kept saying, i know that reading all about the war, but what happened here. it happened in new jersey. and so there is always that idea. and then if you hang out and start doing the math, while, most of the bells are here. but and then you get into why valley forge became the famous winter. then you look it anniversaries and the anniversary of the constitution happened. it did a big thing in philadelphia in the 1800's. the kind of pushed valley forge. e

, and i forgot all about this. 11 oregon for a lot of the '90s. my family and i, but before i went to oregon i used to go and have lunch all the time atop the empire state-building. i remember i was very happy after he wrote the rats book. budget guys who are churck guides at the empire state-building gave me free passes to the top and now is great. i used to have lunch up there and you know kind of obvious but it's a great view. >> really? >> really, really good view. i remember as a kid reading about lincoln, abe lincoln and him saying no, this is where it all happened. he was just trying to get votes in jersey i'm sure, but he kept saying i know that reading all about the war when i was a kid, the war happened in new jersey and so there was always that idea and then you hang out any start doing the math. wow, most of the battles were here. and then you get into why did the value of -- the constitution happened and they did a big thing in philadelphia in the 1800's and they pushed valley forge at that time and even crossing the delaware, not a big deal for americans until the 1940s

removed and not remove the spleen. removing or not removing an oregon based on which door you walk into comedies are all good hospitals and good hospitals with good reputations. removing it colin. they're two different ways of doing it, minimally invasive and an open incision in some say you can do it either way. we have a "new england journal of medicine" study that's over 10 years older shows a minimally invasive is better and it's common sense that it's better but there is a the wild west of medicine that only half of the patients that need minimally invasive we'll ever have it done that way. >> host: you use the term the wild west of medicine and elsewhere in your book you talk about the need to have a new sheriff in town. so, talk to me a little bit about this concept of the new sheriff in town or a con ability or holding people responsible and how that balances with what we frequently hear when we try and move forward with standardization or accountability as an artform and medicine. out of those two things kind of play out? >> guest: i get the artform of medicine. most of th

statistic host back shannon, portland, oregon, good afternoon. this is booktv on c-span2. >> caller: hello. i want to start off by saying you're a great men of integrity and it's a pleasure to talk to you. >> guest: thank you. >> caller: i'm an fdr democrat, and we have crossed the bridge before although obvious it wasn't quite as great a situation when it comes to the debt. when you're talking that $88 trillion. we know that money can't be paid back. we're just trying to purchase our way out of it. so, what's wrong with going back to what fdr did in doing large-scale infrastructure projects to put people back to work, what have a real living wage so that we can start to pay down the debt? >> guest: i don't think there's anything wrong with that but you can't do both. we don't have the money to do both. what you have to do is give back some of what we are doing to be able to do that. and remember, much of what we did under fdr was, we had a much larger component of labor than what we do today. if you think about building dams are building roads and building bridges, it's much -- i w