great power, unlike russia, which at the same time was committing atrocities of a similar scale in chechnya, where wi the west did nothing. it is the balance of power itself, a lesson that humanists do not want to hear. and you say humanists there as a foreign policy reference. you could also say a lot of progressives and human rights advocates don't necessarily want to hear that or agree with that. what do you mean by that and how does that analysis of russia relate to what's happening today? >> right, the issue with russia is an issue of geography. ukraine is just too thrusty and to spatially exposed to russia for ukraine to ever be a normal state without a close and stable relationship with russia. the future of ukraine, of a prosperous, stable ukraine, has to be some kind of neutrality. some sort of, you know, a western system, but with proper, correct relations with russia. remember, foreign policy is about, it's about, who can do what to whom, and it's about america protecting its power in the world, its influence in the world, and if it does that well, if it plays the game of realism

a lot of that was used to have a free hand in chechnya and vader russia in 2008 and he still knows that is the case. i guess my question is how does america get past this unity of the west and lead and use its influence in 2014 when putin understands the limits of what american wants to do certainly militarily? >> you're exactly right. i would say a couple of things we want to do besides just sanctions. you're right there is disunity in the west on that. one is american manager exports. we should change our licensing requirements and laws. we should now open up the spi t spigots so the united states can export oil and national gas in large quantities the best way to offset the one real power that mr. putin has which is the leverage he gets from energy. we ought to put together a massive package for ukraine. not just ignore that. you have to stabilize 95% of ukraine that mr. putin doesn't yet control. we have to go there. we can do things with the rest nato and not think about arming ukraine and that is symbolic. >> bobby just sent me a note about that so we are all on the same page. i h

there are lots of parts of russia, chechnya, and some of the parts of russia where you have the radical muslims there. you know, once you can start annexing different parts, then there's no end to it. so putin may find out that he's, you know, unleashed a wave that may come back and bite him in the end. we reject this referendum in crimea. it's a phony referendum. it doesn't matter how it comes out. we now how it would come out. it would come out people will want to be attached to russia, but it's a fraud and we should reject it. >> elliott engle just out of a meeting with the ukrainian prime minister. >>> that wraps us up. >>> next, a deadly crash that authorities believe was caused by a drunk driver. ac=u'lt'01wlÑ [ female announcer ] charmin ultra soft is so soft you don't even have to squeeze it to believe it. you can actually see the softness with our comfort cushions. plus charmin ultra soft is so much softer and more absorbent you can use up to four times less. but what if you can't help but squeeze it? that's been happening to people for years. [ female announcer ] used by more

government, there during two russian wars againstç chechnya we disagreed very much with how the russians pursued those wars, but when asked about chechnya, the first thing we said we respect russian territorial integrity. we do not believe the chechens have the right to separate. and the russians may open a can of worms here. >> now, crimea does vote to rejoin, then what do you think happens with putin's designs there? you mentioned a land grab. does he try to go further? and what do you say to the criticism here that however right the obama administration may be in its desire to have an international humanitarian, international law response here, that they're basically being worked over as a matter of geopolitics, that putin keeps acting and the u.s. is just reacting? >> i think two questions, the first question, if the referendum goes forward, what does the government do? do they move immediately to annex crimea, or leave it hanging and leave it in a bit in limbo, and in the latter case, it may have maneuver to try to negotiate a settlement. part of the problem in terms of the geopolit

so there could be a new chechnya emerging here. these folks are very unhappy with what's happening. second of all, opportunity was missed in kiev to structure an interim government that included the east part of the country. that is one of the reasons -- zr actually, i think they tried. i heard the new government -- they went to the party of regions. this was the party of former president yanukovych, offered them positions, but they declined, in part, because the concern is this government, if they're serious, will have to make -- >> very quickly, what action this week do you expect the obama administration to do? >> there will be political sanctions, economic sanctions. you've seen the cancelling of a host of delegations -- >> postponing of trade. >> and exploiting with the europeans how you make this more painful. and after second -- after secretary kerry is in kiev tomorrow, i think go to brussels and -- >> i agree with that. i think that's part of what will happen. >> nato -- let nato's bravado get louder -- >> and i think the rhetoric will stay tough and hard, needs to, not pro