reportedly crashed in iran. and russian air cover has allowed syrian troops to launch new offenses. meanwhile, the pentagon announced it will no longer train new rebel forces and instead fund existing ones. what is happening in syria? philip gordon is with the council on foreign relations. until march of this year, he served on the national security council as special assistant for the middle east. >> what has become clear in the past several weeks is that the stated objective of u.s. policy and western policy and our allies in the gulf, which is to bring about a political transition by supporting the opposition, is not working, and unlikely to work. >> rose: has failed. >> and by that i mean-- has failed, sure. i think we have to say that. we had a program to train and equip the opposition to make it strong enough to either get rid of the regime or pressure the regime to make meaningful changes. we hoped and expected that the russians and the iranians, who were mainly backing the regime, would ultimately see the light and realize they had to come to the table and negotiate serious

taliban are being given weapons by iran. isis is gaining a foothold and the sanctuary in pakistan still exists. it's a tough call. >> rose: let me turn to syriath. you have said the white house has no strategy. that it's action there are floundering. what should we be doing? >> well, a long time ago when the secretary of state hillary clinton and the secretary of defense leon pan eta and the director of the cia then general pet rayus recommended that we train and arm and equip the free syrian army. that was when the president was saying it's not a matter of whether but a matter of when bashar assad will leave. so since that refusal, and of course the red line was one of the sem nal moments in the history of the obama administration. my friend, that had a profound effect, not only in the middle east but around the world. >> rose: meaning that the redlie president did nothing even though there was an agreement with the russians to get the chemical weapons out of syria. >> yeah, but-- first of all, they're still using some chemical weapons. but the point is, that the president didn't

with consequences for soldiers and wounded veterans and unintended consequences like empowering iran in iraq which, in a way, is part of the problem we're seeing today because, by getting rid of saddam and letting iran become the main power in iraq, you made the sunnis in iraq feel they were slighted and in a government that came to power essentially drove them into the arms of i.s.i.s. >> rose: let me read a couple of quotes and get your impression. brzezinski, "in these rapidly unfolding circumstances the u.s. has only one real option if it's to protect wider stakes in the region to convey to moscow the demand it cease and desist from military actions that directly affect american assets. russia has every right to support mr. assad if it so wish bus any repetition of what has just transpired should prompt u.s. retaliation ." >> i am all for tough messages to moscow and making clear we have interests, too, and if they persist in what they're doing there will be consequences to moscow, but you have to be careful with that sort of red line. if by that you mean -- again, it comes back to

are different. >> absolutely, especially world war ii. at the same time he has said about iran, they have to decide whether they want to be a revolutionary force or a nation state. >> this is a very important concept in his writing, that an international order's biggest problem is a revolutionary state that challenges the legitimacy of the order. the advent of a rev reutionary iran fundamentalically changed the international order. in some ways it was as profound an event of the opening to china in the early 1970s that we soarnt with his time in government. and that revolutionary state still poses a problem. and one can see that in his krits kal writing at the time that the iran deal was being negociated. there is a fundamental sceptd civil on-- skepticism on his part that you can really bring an international regime into the order the way the president is trying to do. >> rose: i sment most people why kissinger, niall ferguson, historian, and then they see idealist, and they say really? idealist? >> this might seem like a plof kaition. prove kaition and i imagine there are some view

, so that means the united states, western europe, turkey, the arab states, iran because they are a big player, russia because they are a player, all those people have to come together, and assad's got to be at the table, too, all of these people have to come together and they have to agree on a transition from assad to a new government, and that new government needs to be inclusive of all the different groups in syria. >> rose: including the alawites? >> including the alawites. everybody has to have a role. it almost has to be like in lebanon where everyone is guaranteed a significant role in the government no matter the voting, everybody has a particular job that goes to them. that's the way the outcome in syria is going to have to be. so transition from assad to that. once you have an agreement on what that looks like, then you can take the syrian military with everybody helping, right, with the united states, the arabs, western europe, iran, russia, with everybody helping and you can go after and defeat i.s.i.s. and al-nusra. but until you have that political settlement, nothing

syria alligator. we have iran all gaitder, iraq alligator, and you are coming saying i have this other alligator over here that hasn't happened yet. but it might. and he said in the army we have a special group and a special officer who is in charge of the future. what are the potentially issues that we need to worry about. i'm not all together sure, charlie, that we have someone in our political system who is tasked with doing the same thing. >> rose: here is what i would suggest to maybe, it is that it's more-- it has an increasing priority for them. i mean keith alexander was head of nsa and head of the cybercommand, and mike rogers has those two johns today. >> right. >> and it is a priority for them now. >> they-- . >> rose: it is a subject of great dialogue between the chinese and the united states. >> they certainly do, charlie. but remember the nsa is in deep trouble in this country. >> rose: right. >> the nsa is perceived by bsh ---- . >> rose: courtesy of edward snoaden and much of what snoaden reported turns out to be accurate. >> right. the question we have to ask ourselves

national security. he talked about iran and iran nuclear deal, he talked about the palestinians and syria, all subjects we want to talk to him about this evening. i am pleased to have this opportunity to talk to him before he returns to israel. mr. prime minister, thank you for joining us. >> good to be with you, charlie. >> rose: let me turn to syria. russians have created a stronger military force there. their planes attacked moderate arabs. he says he's going in to prop up assad. tell me what you know from your own intelligence sources about what's happening on the ground. >> well, i went to see mr. putin in moscow a few days ago, and he told me his goals pretty much as he enunciated them here, and i said, well, i have different goals. you know, i'll not intervene in the internal conflict in syria, it's a mess, but i will protect my country's security, so we will not allow iran to build a second terror fund, not tolerate the use of syrian territory to attack or rocket our cities and will act to prevent the transfer of arms by iran and others from the territory of syria into hezbo

thought a lot about president obama's efforts and secretary kerry's efforts on iran, and he would have really respected they went for this. he would have also said i saw secretary kerry speak about this and say it's a good deal. he didn't say it's a great deal. that imperfection is a hallmark of deploim si. >> rose: no one doubted his skills. some worried about a bull in a china shop, a metaphor. but one thing that i thought was amusing, and i have huge respect for george mitchell who i think is a great american and worked hard, i would have liked to have seen the president make richard holbrooke his middle east envoy and say, look, for all the reasons you want to see this succeed because it's in the interest of peace of the world, for whatever your own ambition is, i'm telling you now, i'm going to give you my authority to go try to make peace in the middle east primarily beginning with the israeli palestinians. and that was my great hope of what obama might do. not knowing whether richard would accept it or not, but it was a challenge up to his skills. >> look, afghanistan was an eno

, also, 1300s. we ruled iraq and iran for two centuries. >> rose: the mongolian empire. the mongolian empire. the mighty mongolian empire. biggest land empire that ever existed on the earth. >> rose: ever existed. yes. it covered all of russia, part of europe and china, india, the persian empire. >> rose: and who were the famous leaders? >> gikhan and muhammad and they built the first observatory, first hospitals, first universities. i was in iran. i met ayatollah khomeini. he was very grateful for the mongolian empire. >> rose: the main religion in mongolia? >> the main religion in mongolia was buddhism. originally shamaism (phonetic). >> rose: and what about you? i'm buddhist. >> rose: what does that mean in terms of how you see life? >> you know, it's very peaceful, and you are the owner of your destiny. that's how i see. >> rose: yeah. that's the central tenet of buddhism, you are the owner of your destiny? >> yes. >> rose: how much conflict or accommodation is there with north korea? >> you know, mongolia have a unique position in north korea. we have our embassy there and our di

the palestinian authority and hamas and islamic jihad in iran of inciting. but there is no accusation this is managed from headquarters anywhere. >> rose: we continue with ann temkin and anne umland and look at the picasso sculpture exhibition at the museum of modern art in new york. >> the general fact is sculpture is less known and less thought about than painting because it's harder to make a scene. it takes up more space. it's more trouble to transport, more trouble to arrange in a gallery. so, therefore, across the board, sculpture is less well known, but particularly so with picasso. >> rose: we conclude this evening with cary fukunaga, the director of the film "beasts of no nation." >> i remember speaking to a minister of parliament in liberia when we were setting up the movie who was the commander and lord that ousted charles taylor and he said, without any filtering, you know, he said the child soldiers who fought for him were his best soldiers by far. they're the most loyal, the most eager to please and the most fearless. >> rose: violence in israel, picasso's sculpture at m

only country that is being condemned is israel. not saudi arabia, not afghanistan, not iran. >> rose: whose fault is that? >> now let's look at this. israel began checking people at the airport 30 years ago. what did people say, hey, how you can do this thing. invasion of privacy, you can't do this stuff. israel is on the front line in encountering phenomenallen phenomenons that western democracies have yet to encounter, we are trying to protect and if the go overboard. do we always get it right, no. but by god we are trying. and i think today when he look at what we have faced, the united states, western countries, israel, we are fighting on the same thing. we're fighting on the values, values of freedom. the values that we all cherish. >> rose: let me tov to-- john kerry made a huge effort to bring ises rheals and palestinians together. he spent almost a year trying to get that to happen. and he's raised questions as to why it was difficult. and he has blamed both sides. >> uh-huh. >> rose: yes. >> i, and you, charlie, we have seen president clinton put an offer on the table. i was

argue right now, their focus is yemen. it is iran. >> rose: fair enough. >> it is certainly, it is isil. this time last year as i was traveling through the region to gain support along with secretary kerry and then secretary hazel to gain the support of our gulf allies to join the coalition and to undertake strikes, unprecedented, arab airplanes dropping bombs in syria. >> rose: including our jordannia and a pilot was captured and burned to death. >> correct, correct. but uae, saudi assistance. so that was all garnered because the one thing i found in my discussions with the gulf countries was there unity against isil. they believe it is a per version, certainly, of islam. they will not call them isil. any time you talk to-- . >> rose: dash. >> they do not want us to refer to isil as islamic in any way. >> rose: why do we call it isil rather than isis. >> well, it's interesting. >> rose: that seems to be a central government pronunciation guide. >> yes, it's a-- one of the reasons is they have undergone or tried to undertake their own change in their name several times. they starte