having me tonight. >> thank you. joining me now, arook palamaci and malcolm nance. >> i think the first thing that is clear is that this is going to play into isis' world view. isis, the organization, has not yet commented on the ban from the seven countries, but there is an enormous amount of chatter on channels on telegram run by supporters and members. in those channels they posted the executive order, pictures of it, and they're having discussions about it and the tone is that this is proof that america is going to crumble and be destroyed from within. >> so isis sympathizers, you're reporting tonight, like this. >> of course. of course. this is a confirmation of the world view that america is at war with islam. as you know, the obama administration and bush administration before that went to great lengths to say that this was a war on terror. and not a war with a particular religion. these jihadist groups since the get-go said that's not true. that this is a wore ar on islam >> malcolm, what do you think? >> she's absolutely right. let's go way further back, osama bin laden when he

is the president of the national iranian american council, sara kensiore, malcolm nance, naveed jamali and tiera hawk. the idea that this policy was put into place without consulting the department of state, even i don't believe the office of legal counsel was asked to weigh in, there's a piece by benjamin wites and supports a lot of interrogation policies and others of the previous administration. he wrote this is an example of ma level ens tempered by incompetence. it looked like it was written perhaps by a student and not even well thought out. what do you make of getting around the national security council and also adding bannon to the national security council? >> well, it's no coincidence that about a day and a half before this executive order was signed, the key people who would have to implement this were essentially fired from the state department. the management folks, the folks responsie for visas and consul affairs, the folks responsible to diplomatic security and for actual building operations. so anybody who had enough sense by saying what kind of chaos would erup

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order. let's start with the executive order related to a plan to defeat isis. malcolm nance and i were talking about the end of the last hour and he was saying the only step we can go further that has not been done or put together is potentially going to war. is it that extreme in terms of what is already out there versus what may come from this executive order asking the joint chiefs to come up with a more if you will aggressive plan? >> he spoke yesterday of the need for safe zones that would be near turkey or syria. that would involve the deployment of possibly about u.s. troops. we have other contingenciesing for on around raqqah inside syria. so when you look at this, all we can do is speculate when it comes to what they think would be tland status of isis. many of us positithink that isi continue in other parts of middle east, north africa region, but potentially not there. but an awful lot has been accomplished. general mattis is very, very aware of what it takes to fight isis. and so this may y be one where mattis was part of the process along with general flynn. >> i want

msnbc breaking at this moment. and the response will now ensue. let's go straight to malcolm nance security expert joining us. and malcolm, as a former u.s. intelligence expert or you still are, as you look at the ban on lobbying, the moore interesting part for you, and we don't have all the details yet, related to the nsc, and the restructuring, is this very much logistical or is this a major strategic move and then the second piece that you clearly would have a view on is the executive order signed to defeat isis and whether this is in any deference to what has already been done. your thought on those last two executive orders. >> well, first with regard to the national security council, what you're looking at is a power move by general michael flynn former u.s. corredirector defense intelligence agency. 's shaping the nsc to be like his operational command that he had working with at the defense intelligence agency and putting things more in his pocket. the director of the national security council is not supposed to be a person who has his fingers in every pie. and it remains to be seen

. >> joining me now are malcolm nance, executive director of the terrorism asymmetrics project, and the author of "how to catch a russian spy." thank you all for being here, friends. let's start with you, malcolm. i want to talk about this muslim ban. this is our first full screen here, a map of the seven muslim majority nations that have been essentially banned by trump's executive order. iraq, iran, libya, sudan, yemen. none of those countries have produced their citizens who have been terrorists linked to attacks on americans. and yet countries like saudi arabia are not on that list. can you make sense of that? >> no. i can't make sense of any of this. this is just playing into the hindsig hands of isis. i said before, this is going to be the salvation of isis. let me put a personal touch on this. all those countries that trump has commercial ties to that have sent terrorists to the u.s. at some point, we haven't had terrorists from brazil or trinidad or the bahamas, who have more terrorist members than any of those terrorist countries. this morning i was notified that an iraqi i

organization. >> our mutual friend malcolm nance is one of the few people you'll meet who has been waterboarded as a government intelligence person. we'll have him on the air to talk about what we mean when we talk about waterboarding. jeremy, the last time you and i spoke it was in light of the president's visit to the cia. saturday, here is what he had to say in retrospect tonight. >> that location was given to me. mike pence went up before me, paid great homage to the wall. i then went up and paid great homage to the wall. i then spoke to the crowd. i got a standing ovation. >> you would give the same speech if you went back, in front of that wall? >> absolutely. they loved it. they gave me a standing ovation most of the time. they never even sat down. there was love in the room. >> jeremy, the president complained tonight that the coverage on fox news was a lot better than what he got everywhere else. he famously relitigated the inaugural crowd size, how many times he's been on the cover of "time" magazine. it is still your position that there was a stature gap between the room

time tonight, malcolm nance. >> my pleasure. >> the ethics lawyer suing president trump for violating the ethics. what it means to sue the president ahead. >>> today the trump white house took -- undertook what they call a day of action, a day devoted to doing the things trump said he would do on day one of his presidency. well, day four of his presidency at this point. now, the president made more than 30 different promises about things that he would do the moment, even the minute he got into office, most of which he still has not acted on, we should be clear. here are the things he actually did do today. the president signed an executive order officially withdrawing the united states from the trans-pacific partnership, the multi-lateral trade deal said they would oppose in office. he signed an executive order reinstating the gag order. in addition to the executive orders we learned the official language of the executive order the president signed on friday proclaiming january 20th his inauguration day, a national day of pay receipt otheric devotion. presidents only have the power to

really. just disgusting. >> thanks for your time tonight, malcolm nance. >> my pleasure. >> the eics lawyer suing president trump for violating the ethics. what it means to sue the president ahead. the 2017 e-class. it's everything you need it to be... and more. lease the e300 for $549 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. [and her new business: i do, to jeanetgo. jeanette was excellent at marrying people. but had trouble getting paid. not a good time, jeanette. even worse. now i'm uncomfortable. but here's the good news, jeanette got quickbooks. send that invoice, jeanette. looks like they viewed it. and, ta-da! paid twice as fast. oh, she's an efficient officiant. way to grow, jeanette. get paid twice as fast. visit quickbooks-dot-com. >>> today the trump white house took -- undertook what they call a day of action, a day devoted to doing the things trump said he would do on day one of his presidency. well, day four of his presidency at this point. now, the president made more than 30 different promises about things that he would do the mom

malcolm nance, msnbc contributor and author of "the plot to hack america." he insisted that it was the greatest, it was the largest number of people to ever witness an inauguration, period. he just screamed that into the camera. i immediately thought of you, because i thought to myself we think this is bizarre in the united states because we've never seen anything like this. but please explain to us how in parts of the world it is actually not bizarre. this is the way it works? >> yeah. this happens all the time in authoritarian states. that's why their rulers, they go through the pretense of having elections and then they win with some absurd number like 90% to 95% of the vote. they want to flaunt powers to say we know that you know that this is a lie and we don't care because there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. so the trump administration has been doing this from the beginning. but there's one more thing he's doing, which i think is unique to trump that you don't necessarily see in other authoritarian states and he's extremely sensitive about quantitative metrics of popul

malcolm nance, msnbc contributor and author of the book "the plot to hack america." ali, in the questioning of rex tillerson, even some republicans, notably marco rubio, seem to be concerned about his ties to russia. if one of them would vote against him, that might be enough to really throw the senate foreign committee, the vote the other way tomorrow. >> yeah, in fact, because they've only got a majority of one on the committee -- >> right. >> marco rubio has not said whether he's comfortable with rex tillerson. he really grilled him on his views on russia and cuba in particular and involvement in syria and things like that. now, what happens is if he doesn't get approved by the committee, it still goes to the senate for a complete vote, but there you've got -- >> where they have a majority for the entire senate. >> right, but you've got marco rubio, john mccain and lindsey graham, all of whom have expressed concerns about rex tillerson, so it is not smooth sailing for him, regardless of what happens on the committee. rex tillerson has not convinced all of the republicans on t

now, malcolm nance, former counterterrorism, intelligence agency, author of "how putin cyber spies and wikileak tried to steal the election." >> from all i've heard from my sources at the intelligence office, it played very poorly. there are names of stars whose i've put my hands on, ignoring that hallowed ground, the sanctity and dignity, it was a disgusting play. >> to me ear it seemed he was well received. there was a combination of applause and laughter when he spoke of having carried that room and saying something like i'm not going to ask you how you voted. but you're saying despite what we may have heard in terms of the applause meter, you don't think it played well? >> well, no. i think it played poorly with the officers who weren't at work that day. this is a saturday. i don't know who would have been invited there, perhaps some people on the guard staff, maybe cafeteria staff, but the officers who come in to work on sunday and the watch standers who were standing watches and other divisions, they might have been able to shake away, but this is not who they addressed. dona

hidden cameras recorded everything. malcolm nance used to be an officer in us intelligence and has studied russian spy craft. most of the rooms are wired for sound, even if they're not wired, they have sophisticated enough collection systems to where they don't have to be in the room. the intelligence service would have been part of the analysis team that would have been watching him. to determine is donald trump or anyone on his staff someone we could turn into an agent who would work for russia. everything in that report fits with how russian intelligence works. that doesn't mean it is true. but putin has form for kompromat. back in 2000, mikhail kasyanov was putin's prime minister. they fell out. and mikhail kasyanov became an outspoken leader of the opposition. then last year, this video of the married man having sex with his assistant was broadcast on state tv. mikhail kasyanov told us about the latest allegations. i'm almost sure special equipment was installed. there is no corroborating evidence for the kompromat and trump said he would never have fallen for it. i am careful

that in this regard, brian. >> one of our intelligence veterans, malcolm nance, watched putin's remarks and said classic asset management, classic misdirect when he said why would we be gathering intelligence on a man like this, meaning trump. shawn, my second question for you has to do with your colleagues. this has been your life's work. how do you sum up the hit that members of the u.s. intelligence community have taken in the past few days and weeks? >> i think it's tremendous. when you look at criticism levied, these people are strong, they've got thick skins, but if there are statements that are made that question their credibility, that question their instincts, that question potentially their dedication to the country, it does a number of things. first of all, from a credibility perspective, it undermines the intelligence community credibility both in the united states with americans, it undermines it with our allies. and it undermines it, i think more importantly, with our adversaries who use those statements to put out propaganda in their own nations. and then at home, the mor

. malcolm nance used to be an officer in us intelligence and has studied

, not only do we have the evidence, as ma'am malcolm nance just laid out, there there was serious input to impact the election, but we're hearing the incoming president-elect and his folk, conservatives, praising the russians. >> right. >> and acting like all thif background has not happened. how do we reconcile this? >> well, that's part of the logic here. we have the clear evidence -- >> i'm putting aside whether they had anything to compromise him or not. >> right. >> i'm just talking about this as a fact that we know. >> that's the logic, that we have the evidence that the russians attempted to undermine the election. now, what donald trump has insisted, he's begrudgingly accepted only recently that, yes, he accepts the intelligence community's conclusions that russia interfered in the election. what he resists is that they interfered on his behalf. now we have consistent statements, and i think we can say that donald trump has been relatively inconsistent on almost everything else in foreign policy issues -- consistent statements of friendliness toward russia, of indicating t

material that could be used to blackmail him. joining me now, malcolm nance, author of the plot to hack america, and mother jones david corn as well as michael mcfall, former u.s. ambassador to russia. malcolm, that dossier, i read all 35 pages of it. what's interesting about it is is that the narrative it tells, it tells the exact same narrative you've been telling us since last summer which is that donald trump some years ago was compromised against the russians, that there's compromising information they have on him that they use to keep him loyal. is that a conclusionary document or a research document? >> it's a research document. this is why the journalists and the media are having such a hard time with it. it's not journalism. that's intelligence collection. what you're seeing there is relatively medium to low grade intelligence collection where you're working your sources and your sources are giving you first or second-hand information or rumors that they have. they may be checkable, but a lot of these aren't. that's the sort of thing that would get past that post diplomatic par

america is left to wonder why. we'll try to answer that question next with malcolm nance, david forum and john schindler, a former intelligence officer with the nsa. that's next. ♪ ♪ after becoming one of the largest broadband companies in the country. after expanding our fiber network coast to coast. these are the places we call home. we are centurylink. we believe in the power of the digital world. the power to connect. and that's what drives us everyday. like their photo claims tool. it helps settle your claim quickly, which saves time, which saves money. and when they save, you save. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance, an allstate company. click or call. esurance does insurance a smarter way, which saves money. like bundling home and auto coverage, which reduces red tape, which saves money. and when they save, you save. that's home and auto insurance for the modern world. esurance, an allstate company. click or call. >>> in our breaking news tonight, we have a statement released by james clapper, the director of national intelligence. we got th

malcolm nance, david forum and john schindler, a former intelligence officer with the nsa. that's next. after expanding our fiber network coast to coast. these are the places we call home. we are centurylink. we believe in the power of the digital world. the power to connect. and that's what drives us everyday. what are you doing? getting your quarter back. fountains don't earn interest, david. you know i work at ally. i was being romantic. you know what i find romantic? a robust annual percentage yield that's what i find romantic. this is literally throwing your money away. i think it's over there. that way? yeah, a little further up. what year was that quarter? what year is that one? '98 that's the one. you got it! nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. ally. do it right. let's get out of that water. >>> in our breaking news tonight, we have a statement released by james clapper, the director of national intelligence. we got this just before going on the air at 10:00 p.m. a written statement about a conversation he had tonight with donald trump. among other things it say

presidency will be a stormy one. well, the former us intelligence officer and author malcolm nance has been explaining why donald trump's views on russia might raise questions for american security agencies. when we recruit agents in other countries will use an acronym called mice, we'll go them with money, which donald trump was miss universe 2013, we try to change their ideology, which donald trump now has and espouses the ideology of russia, we try to co—workers or co—opt them through blackmail or, preferably, their cooperation, and then we play with a go. donald trump is an easily manipulated person. he fits into the mice category quite well. for some bizarre, strange reason, he will not say one word against vladimir putin, but he will disparage the current administration and any americans operating in the intelligence community. that would bring suspicion. these are unsubstantiated allegations, this is not a full intelligence briefing, as a result of work by the fbi and cia, this is work conducted on page four by a member of the opposition, by the democratic party, that you su

challenge the whole veracity of all of it. malcolm nance is is a former us intelligence officer, and author of the book "the plot to hack america: how putin's cyberspies and wikileaks tried to steal the 2016 election." hejoins me on webcam from philadelphia. we know that donald trump has had a rocky relationship with the security and intelligence apparatus of the united states through the campaign. and it is conceivable that a disgruntled cia, fbi staff may have lea ked disgruntled cia, fbi staff may have leaked this information? to say that his relationship with the intelligence community is rocky is an understatement. but the information that has been leaked, we should understand, there are many people who could do that. the fundamental information was that there was a two page memorandum which was extracted from a 36 page memorandum seen which was extracted from a 36 page memorandum seen out on which was extracted from a 36 page memorandum seen out on the intranet today. most likely if it came from anywhere it came from capitol hill staff in the house or senate who had access to this inf

journalist and not a spy. you are the opposite of malcolm nance, what do you make of this story? >> well, here it is tuesday night breaking twelve days before inauguration of very much the same time frame that we saw the comey's story breaking right before the election. this is coming at a critical moment. the american people have to honor a peaceful of transfer of power. if this story blows up tomorrow morning, the russians, vladimir putin, holds information now that is personally embarrassing and some grievous manner to the president-elect trump. did he allowed himself to be nominated and knowing they had something on him and use him and extort him? >> this is been a romance by the american people with a man, it is been a world wind romance with a guy that we did not know. it is hard to say when you don't think he's capable of. many people don't know what donald trump. they know what he stood for. i am challenging the establishment that you have grown tired of. you feel that it exploited you and abused you. they did not study this guy. he's kind of a character that could be ca

. >>> we want to bring in msnbc terrorism analyst malcolm nance. i'm glad that you're here to help us on this day. what do you make of the kremlin's denials? >> well, this is to be expected from the kremlin. i mean, a core component of russian intelligence operations since the beginning of the soviet union was called maskerovka which is to mask over the operational intentions of what you intend to do against your enemies. of course the first thing do you is deny you had anything to do with this hack. the intelligence information that was seen last friday is unclassified information. the classified information that donald trump and president obama got would show the exact methodologies, the exact pathways leading right back to very specific russian entities. we don't care what moscow thinks about it. it's what's going to happen after president trump takes office and he becomes responsible for this machinery. >> right. malcolm, kellyanne conway said on another network today there's been "selective outrage" about russia and the focus should be on china and other hackers sw s well. do you ag

outcome of the election. and it's democratic national committee. joining me now malcolm nance, author of "the plot to hack america" former intelligence operative and david corn, washington bureau chief and journalist sarah. thank you all for being here. let's just get to donald trump's refusal to be able to accept, malcolm, the conclusions of the intelligence community even when the head of the intelligence agencies are sitting in front of him telling him this happened. why in your view will he not just accept it? >> i think because when donald trump made his statement on july 27th of last year where he asked for russia to hack hillary clinton and release her e-mails, at that point he went from being an unwitting useful to russia to actually believing that they were working in his, in his favor. and to admit that now in the face of all the evidence, he would believe that this would delegitimize his presidency. he will fight to the end to not allow this to become a narrative. i suspect in two weeks he's going to attempt to cover this all up and even gut the intelligence community. where h

me is malcolm nance, counter terrorism analyst and republican strategist and nbc news intelligence and national security reporter. ken when you look at what's in the briefing, what is the key take away and what did you make of that reference worded very carefully but a reference to putin's belief that the trump organization will help putin have power potentially over trump. >> i'm not sure what to make of that. favoring right wing and wealthy political leaders but in terms of the key takeaway i was struck by dispute over what the motives were. some people said the motives were to elect trump and some other sources were saying it was to stabilize democracy and we're seeing it was both and evolved but by the end the russians were trying to get trump elected and they were happy when he was. it's something that's going to be interesting to see how trump reacts to as it moves on. >> when you look at donald trump's response on a scale of one complete and total rejection and ten, a responsible normal president working with the intelligence agencies, where did you see him landing today? >>

wall. phil mattingly live from washington, thanks so much. malcolm nance is a former u.s. intelligence officer and the author of "the plot to hack america." david brody, welcome to both of you. so the dnc didn't turn their servers over to the fbi, a third party did, both of you say it's only a deflection. >> the assets are strategic assets or human intelligence it' assets. we collect against our targets. the intelligence we're going to get is going to be from the actual systems that penetrated the dnc system. so, you know, we know that fsb, former russian intelligence, which is the old kgb, and russian gru military intelligence hackers, are going into a united states entity, we're going to focus on those hackers. >> so that's standard operating procedure. >> yes. nine out of ten times the fbi doesn't actually have to look at the server. this is normal. so it's really deflection and spin. >> why do you think they're still spinning before this intelligence briefing? why not just stop, listen, and then talk? >> i have a lot of -- a lot of people in the intelligence community

malcolm nance, msnbc intelligence analyst, author of the book "the plot to hack america." let me ask you about your general view of what we've been talking about. the fact that trump is now al n aligning himself rhetorically with the former kgb agent, vladimir putin and basically all these republican guys joining the side of julian assange who many would have thought was something of a traitor, no the traitor, but certainly enemy agent and now they're all the best buds with these people just because they made the democrats be embarrassed over some e-mails. >> well, at one point i just thought this was going to be all bread and circuses for donald trump to go out with whatever name is the most popular out there, julian assange to piggyback onto that, use that information then grow up at some point. it appears that is not going to happen. he is viewing assange and certainly through sean hannity's interview with assange, as a serious player who has done him a favor. and he is paying that favor back with praise. i find it very, very confusing and actually very alarming. >> well, i kn

attack again. >> malcolm nance, appreciate it. msnbc's live coverage continues now into the "11th hour." >>> tonight could donald trump be headed for his first showdown with republicans in congress before he even takes the oath of office? >>> also, what does donald trump know that other people don't know about hacking? and whether russia was involved? >>> and a statesman weighs in tonight on the dangers of president-elect trump's constant praise for vladimir putin. the "11th hour" begins now. >>> happy new year, i'm nicolle wallace. brian has the name off. same year, i'm sorry, new year, same donald trump. he's confident in his own assessment of what is widely believed to be russian hacking of the dnc over the summer, leaving us in suspense tonight about why. when it comes to russia, two men who often share a news cycle rang in the new year in two very different ways. here's donald trump on the hacking scandal on new year's eve at his florida club, mar-a-lago. >> i know a lot about hacking and hacking is a very hard thing to prove. so it could be somebody else. and i also know thi

to get things running properly. >> malcolm nance will join us next. hey, it's the phillips' lady! there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try these delicious phillips' fiber good gummies, a good source of fiber to help support regularity. mmm...these are great! my work here is done. phillips', the tasty side of fiber. >>> in turkey carrying out raids in istanbul as part of the investigation of the terror attack in the early hours of new year's eve. officials released this picture of the suspect in that aack who they say carried out a mass shooting at a well known nightclub. 39 people were kill and dozens others injured. turkish government have found or believed to be the gunman's fingerprint and police are close to identifying him. today, isis made a rare move and claimed responsibility for the shooting. calling the gunman a soldier of the caliphate. and the attack revenge for turkish military involvement in syria. joining us now, malcolm nance, msnbc counterterrorism and intelligence analyst. malcolm, your reaction to what happened over the weekend and donald trump's com

intelligence officer and nbc terror analyst, malcolm nance. thanks for joining us. what are the chances this guy's still in turkey? >> well the chances are good he's still in turkey. turkey is set quite a tight perimeter these days on the turkish/syrian border ever since their force supported oerngss inside of syria. it's very interesting, right after a -- a few hours after the manhunt began, there were journalists inside much turkey who were noting there were no checkpoints anywhere around istanbul leading out of the city to other major cities and even to the east where it's pretty much a hinterland. the turkish effort is now concentrated on putting this person's image out to the public. he appears to be -- was the origin, the same type of origin of the attackers who attacked the airport in istanbul earlier in 2016. so, they hope that that will get them this man in the manhunt. >> so it's all what a manhunts looks like that the point a day, day and a half after something like this twor happen. you just assume they're all hands on deck spread everybody out. >> well that depends

claiming responsibility. i'm joined by msnbc terrorism analyst, malcolm nance. happy new year to you, malcolm. good morning. >> good morning. happy new year. >> so let's start with this claim of responsibility. the pr arm of isis put out a statement that says in part, loirk soldier of the caliphate who attacked the most famous nightclub where christians were celebrating their pagan feast, what's your sense of what happened here? >> well, very simply, isis is taking claim for this attack, and they're using some of the terminology that indicates the nature of the attack. using soldier of the caliphate, means that it was a person that was trained and directed and sent in by isis. when it's an inspired attack, they don't use that terminology. very interesting that they have arrested eight people. it appears there was some intelligence that an attack of this magnitude was going to take place and the reina nightclub was the target of that attack. the turkish nightclub may be getting those people, but having trouble going after the gunman. >> we did hear from the turkish official -- from tu

by nbc news. i want to bring in malcolm nance. msnbc contributor and terror analyst. 35 years in intelligence here. malcolm, you and i -- if we can, look at where we're at in the arc of the story now about three and a half, four hours into it. what is the one point you're watching. nothing or very little is happening, but again, this view is about two miles out. >> well, right now in terms of the arc of this story, i think we're certainly coming to an end. for the most part, if that attacker hasn't been killed by turkish s.w.a.t. in the initial minutes of that attack, we may have a hostage barricade. and as we know with most of these situations we have seen this last year and a half, they end up being what we call al suicide hostage barricade, you have no intention of coming out. most note worthy, you know, we talked about this earlier in the unconfirmed video. gunman came in with a large bag. it looks like a very large assault kit. we don't know whether that was an explosive device, whether he was just coming in there and shoot everybody and then intends to explode that device,

facts for us, as the story continues to develop. matt, thank you,ivity to move over to malcolm nance, with 35 years in intelligence experience, malcolm, the points that have been discussed in the last 30 minutes is the islamic state. isis encouraged or inspired, and matt bradley brought that up. we have not confirmation of anybody claiming responsibility, but that certainly is in the background. our chief foreign correspondent richard engel, who we spoke with, who is so familiar with the region, so familiar with istanbul said there were records of ice sis being relate d don't overemphasize that report, but the lone wolf type of attacker that claims to be associated with isis as we saw in san bernardino, and other places right before their attacks. what's your thought on how to discuss this, malcolm? >> the closer you are to isis' caliphate, the less type of attacker that you have on that from that dimension. you have people who are actual cells in iraq, in -- i'm sorry. not just in iraq, in turkey, who are run -- isis' turkish wing and daert out logistical operations, pushing agencies on i

in critical condition. back to you, malcolm nance, and you were talking about the warnings and the beat cop on the street, they know what's happening. tell me your idea that you were trying to express a second ago, and i want to expand on the warnings. go ahead. >> yeah, so if the local order got wind of this, that's the local underground talking. we have 35 people dead. they had a cop, and jim cavanaugh said that earlier. that's over 90 people in total. two guns ak-47s, 30-round magazines, etch. they managed to get out of 60 shots, reload and at least 30 more, if not more in that venue, which is -- it's not a significant amount, but for terrorists coming in, that's the shock value that they said. they come in and just blast the place. and of course it remains to be seen whether they'll still on venue or killed by local law enforcement. >> good points made, and to both you and jim on this, the bat aclan, when we were there early on on the ground, the details coming in to ugh was that it was tough because of the music itse itself. you remember that, and we're talking about a nightcl

in this attack, richard. >> msnbc analyst malcolm nance also joining us on the phone. if you look at this with all your expertise, this is something they feared and talked about in all major metropolitan areas, for the reasons brought up by jim cavanaugh and based on the information that has become available to us, either through our sources that we've been able to confirm and those pieces of information that we are not able to confirm, what are you seeing here, malcolm? >> well, what i'm seeing here is something that is to a certain extent inevitable. the whole nature of terrorist attacks is to do exactly what we're doing right now, is to grab the attention of the entire global media at a time where everyone else would be concerned about terrorist attacks and carry them out in such a way and in such a horrific way as to harness the imagination and fears of the other billion or so people who are watching and listening to the news right now around the world. certainly the methodologies of this attack are not new. up know, what's interesting about it to me is the very fact that it w