involvement in libya. the white house has been criticized by some lawmakers over its refusal to seek congressional authorization to continue the mission there. joining me from washington, senator richard lugarhe is a ranking republican member of the senate foreign relations committee, i'm pleased to have him back on this program. welcome, senator. >> thank you very much, charlie. >> rose: what's your assessment of where we are on the ground in afghanistan and if we are at a place where talks with the taliban may be productive? >> my imsuppression the fighting is very intensive and will continue that way for several weeks. clearly, there have been indications from president karzai and now from secretary gates that some talks with the taliban may be under way. but i think as the secretary inferred, they're unlikely to be conclusive until well down the trail and he suggested the winter. and even then some observers believe that talks with some taliban might be possible on the part of the afghan government and

do another iraq in libya. but i don't think anybody's preparedor that. >> rose: do you believe th both the assad government in syria and the qaddafi government in libya are prepared for a cease-fire? >>his what they say. they say that they're prepared for the cease-fire and at this point it was the transitional council in benghazi who was saying that the conditions for the cease-fire as far as they were concerned was qaddafi to sit down. and i mentioned the efforts of the government in syria, i think syria's efforts for reforms and that the opposition should pay careful attention to the opportunities which that effort is opening up for them. >>ose: do you have any sense of what's happening in egypt in terms of the transition that ought to be taking place? >> it's turning out to be, i think, more difficult than initially was hopedor. but, well, let's hope for the better that an election is going to take place which will bring about a political system and government which is going to be internationally cooperate

it w this international focus that essentially said we need to take steps in lib -- libya. >> charlie: even aer the acts committed in t government's name to somehow play a role i whatever realignmt in the middle east especially with respect to iran. we don't wt to bay part of a civil war that might happen. >> i see no indication that that thought train is running our poli. they neeto rorm and he is with obviously many other nations that feel the same way. >> charlie: how about yemen. >> yemen is a country i've been focusing on for sometime. the big worry is an ungoverned country that wld allow al-qaeda to try. >> charlie: here comes a failed state. >> and it does and the dangers that are associated with it. they have a very clever, very difficult al-qaeda cell there. th're very dangerous. they speak international terror, seek and support executing the kinds of operations that would be stopped. yemen is a great worry and again it's another country that by and large is being overtaken i think by the internal requirements of its people. we support that but we can't ignore the threats tha

we go back again to the war in libya this evening. on the ground no aircraft-- including attack licoers-- continued to hit targets in tripoli which remains the stronghold of the qaafi gornment. though nato has intensified the efforts, the conflict remains at a stalemate. na announced it will extend its mission for 90 days. joining me now from tripoli is john burns from the london bureau chief of the "new york times." i am pleased to have him back on this program. what's the nato assessment of the circumstances on the ground today? >> i get the impression tt this is a government that doesn't have many tools left in its locker. ey are, of course, facing rebel advances in the western mountains. the rebels are only 130 miles east of here at misurata to the east. they have shortages, increasingly serious shortages of fuel and so i'm told food. weer that colonel qaddafi is more or less a fugitive in his own town. no longer staying, understandably, in his command compound here which has been so heavily bombed. moving at night from hospital t

two have different views over libya and the debt crises. spoking today they emphasissed a cooperation between their two countries. >> on the international stagetht coordinate closely with germany. and our work in afghanistan and our work together with nato, the approach that have taken with respec to the middle east and th arabs, our developmt issues and how we help the poorest countries find their place in the international economy, the are all ing to be areas where, i think, the leadership will be welmed. >> it's also impoant in this context and that's an approach that we both share, bark and i and thats that we need to combine military and civil engagement. so i think we live up to a high international responsibility. the word is full of problems that we need to address. that's a reality. and you cannot have enough partners that work together with you in a coordinated way and this is why this cooperation is so extremely important for our common future. >> tons, chairman mirkel and a state house dinner and the highest civilian honor will

. >> back to libya. what have we discover about the use of nato force in libya? >> what we discovered is that thenitial mission, which was the mission authorized by the u.n. security council which is thehought of the humanitarian catastrophe was successful. what we have seen with ben gaz syno longer the threat of isolation, miss ri the opposition has created space and end -- >> there are reports that qaddafi is looking it to move out of tripoli. >> i hope he's looking to get out of the country, frankly. >> rose: how does the united states and nato untriesnd everyone else in the arab world engorge-- encourage him. what is the means of encouraging him to get out is this. >> i think the means to encourage him to get out is recognize he has no future there. and that the tide that is moving slowly is against him and what we are seeing is increased capacity on the part of the opposition. increased willingness of others to identify with it, increased support for the international community. his attempt to try to find a way out is not getting any traction. he even with r

and will that you expressed at the time of the elecon controversy and we see everyday inyria and in libya to go to the streets and try to have the same kind ofmpact they've had in the streets in tunisia, in egypt, in syria, in libya? >> ( translated ): well, the demonstrations are one tactic but not the only one. we have had some demonstrations but the situation in iran is different from the situation in other countries. we need to use other methods. for example, i think that the situation in iran and egypt is different and i think that the united states had a strong influence on the egyptian army and the iranian military is very independent and there won't be a possibility to exert any influence on that army and i think that the... therefore that the situation is very different. completely different from egypt. we must analyze each country according to the means and the situation in each country. we can't analyze in the same way all of those movements. i think that in syria, for example, the situatn is very different as well. the experienc of t government in repressing demonstrations is

that's why he's been so hesitant toet more involved in libya. and where we need to devote our time is to the 21st century which is asia and particularly to china. and i think that' fundamentally correct. >> rose: will this century be asia's censurely. >> i don't think it will be anybody's century. i thought long a hard when writing the book about how to term it. i could have called it the chinese world. it's n. it's going to be... >> rose: it' only post-american? >> precisely. it's just that we're going from this extraordinary domination of america which dominated politically, militily, cultural, economically. >> rose: beginning at the end of world war i. >> right. and then it goes into warp spd after the collapse of the soviet union whe you have for 20 yeara situationhere no country has ever been this werful. >> rose: i think one of the great stories is going tobe the final assessment as to whether we screwed up that opportunity. from the end of the decline of the soviet union and the collapse of the wall, how did the united states over the nex

involvement in libya. >> we have engaged in a limited operation to help a lot of people against one of the wst tyrants in the world that nobody wants to defend. we should b sending out a unified message to this guy that he should step down and give people a fair chance to live their lives without fear. this suddenly becomes the cause celeb for some folks i congress. come on. >> charlie: talking about the future of same sex marriage throughout the united states. >> i think what you're seeing is a profound recognition on the part of the american people, the gays and lesbians and transgender, ourroths r sisters, our children, our cousins, our friends, our co-workers. and that they've got to be treated like evy other american. and i think that principle will wiout. it's not going to be perfectly smth and it turnsut that the president, i discovered since i've been in this office can't dictate precisely how this process moves. but i think we're moving in a direction of greater equality and i think that's a good thing. >> charlie: this press conference today followed a series of meetings betw

he was talking about libya and to some extent about afghanistan. but i think that they feel like they don't want -- one of the reasons they don't want to pull a lot of troops out quily is that they think that will start a flood from the europeans and the other countries at that time are involved in there and say well if you're leaving we're definitely leang right now. >> has the success on the ground led the taliban to be more interested in negotiating? and if there is negotiation, who is it between? >> i think that's one of those things i'm going to have to see to believe. there's a lot of talk about negotiating with the taliban but there's a lot of talk about negotiating with the taliban last year as well and they had some fake coming forward who didn't really represent the taliban, so there have been some mistakes along those lines. there's talk among u.s. officials that the taliban should be more interested cause of the scess on the ground and maybe they are and maybe the death of osama bin laden made a difference. but i haven't really seen any

instead we must rally international action, which we're doing in libya, where we do not have a single soldier on the ground, but are supportg allies and protecting the libyan people in giving them the chance to determine their own destiny. over the last decade, we have spent a trillion dollars on war. at a time of rising debt and hard economic times. now we must invest in america's greatest resource, our people. we must unleash innovation that creates new jobs and industries while living within our means. we must rebuild our infrastructure and find new and clean soces of energy. most of a after a decade of passionate debate, we must recapture the common purpose th we shared at the beginning of this time of war. for our nation draws strength from our diffences, and wn our union is strong, no hill is too steep, no horizon is i -- beyond our reach. america, it is time to focus on nation building here at home. >> charlie the reductions are faster than what the military commands on the ground has argued for. they have face the increasing pressure from congress and the american public over

. >> charlie: david, let me turn to libya. the president has said he doesn't need the war powers act because of his own argument about that. >> on the war powers things i agree with him. i'm not a fan of that act because i think the president should have leeway to do things like this. the idea is these aren't hostilities. my first rule of politics is don't be a schumck. i think he twisted himself arou aroundisc legalistically you should lean to getting rid of the bad guys. it could be a messy 30 years. i myself have lost no faith wht does development look like. we have half development in increasing secularization, increasing industrialization, increasing democracy. we should be open-minded about what development is going to look like. but i do think in this time we should be leaning forward with our values for democracy and stng institutions wldbe leaning agnst the dictators at which he was lining a lite harder in syria. our ability to control things is limited but we should be leaning. i think he's adapted toward if i may sa

a little silly because to say "what wod george washington think about whether the drone warfare in libya violates the constitution or not?" m not sure you're going to get an awer. >> rose: as you know, justice scalia would say "mr. stengel, you have it quite wrong. what was important were the values that they were enunciating and what it was that the eence of those values that they put into that document." >> and what i'd say to... >> rose: the principles. >> i don't disagree with that. what i'd say to justice scalia is we're all originalists, right? everybody's trying to dine the meaning and what they were thinking. but after you do that, you have to think, well, is that still relevant? yes, theroad principles in some ways are unchanging, but how they are adapted to each situation, which is what lawyers and judges do, that's what you have to look at. and to me it's a combination. it's not one nor the other. and... because the spirit of liberty, charlie, is the spirit that's not too sure it's right. >> rose: you say today's debates represent conflict not crisis. >> yes. so that's the oth