perry. and again not even close. griffin perry did have to give us his job at deutch bank because he's been raising money for his father's campaign and the securities and exchange commission has rules governing political activities. in other words to keep people who may want to get investments in a state pension program like the one in texas from trying to buy political sway through campaign contributions. those rules were tightened effective last year because of shenanigans too many to mention related to the 2008 mortgage mess and broader financial meltdown. griffin perry, the son in question, told abc news recently, he decided to put his career on hold to help his dad. he said it was his choice. so for mrs. perry to say "my son lost his job because of this administration" doesn't pass the truth test. or to borrow, you might say it's all hat and no cattle. >>> breaking news over the scandal involving the obama's administration's multimillion dollar payment loan to a company. [ male announcer ] what if we told you th

ken herman, you've known rick perry and covered rick perry longer than any of us. i want you to listen to the exchange last night. if you talk to the romney people today they'll say rick perry landed blows but this expoesd hip as mean-spirited. anderson cooper trying to get the governor to answer the question about the 14th amendment. >> let me ask a question, governor perry, the 14th amendment allows anybody a child of illegal immigrants born here is automatically an american citizen. should that change? >> let me address herman's issue -- >> i'd rather you ask the question -- answer that question mr. i understand that. you get to ask the questions and i get to answer like i want to. and herman, herman talked about -- >> that's a response. that's not an answer but go ahead. >> what did you see in governor perry last night? anything new or is this a familiar governor? >> no, it's a familiar governor. he's combative and people have asked me, is rick perry mean? and i guess the question is, which rick perry? the rick perry i've known professionally and casually for 2

the idea of rick perry ul p better than rick perry himself. >> he saw his numbers drop from. the polls have him at 6%. he takes aims at former massachusetts governor, mitt romney. >> i consider him to be a fat cat but it doesn't matter to me what anybody says about this. i know what will work. >> what he thinks will work is his flat tax plan. it includes giving taxpayers a choice. stick with the current rate or take a flat rate of 20%, reducing the corporate rate to 20%. allowing younger workers to opt out of social security and capping spending to 18%. >> for those at the top, it is hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars for them. >> but i don't care about that. >> something else perry claims not to care about, the so-called birther issue he helped revive. >> that's all a distraction. i get it. i am really not worried about the president's birth certificate. it is fun to poke at him a little bit. >> a good candidate who is trying to do a relaunch around an issue like taxes does not allow this thing to step on every headline. >> cnbc's chief washington correspondent

. >> what are you smoking, rick perry? >> it is supposed to be taxation tuesday for rick perry. the moment when he reveals his plans for a flat tax for all americans. i'm afraid we must start with the candidate who is smoking up the charts. the got father himself, herman cain. in a brand-new "new york times" poll leads with a full quarter of voters, cruising past mitt romney's 21%. just weeks ago, the two were tied at 17%. the cain train is not only driving the polls, but pushing the gop in terms of policy and influencing the other candidates, jumping on the 9-9-9 bandwagon, the flat tax is the centerpiece of rick perry's plan as announced in the battle ground state of south carolina. today the cain campaign has everyone a twitter. not about taxes, but tobacco as featured in a new web ad. take a look. >> we have run a campaign like no one has seen and america has never seen a candidate like herman cain. together we can do this and take this country back. . >> the somewhat disheveleds smoker in question is mark block, cain's campaign manager and a man with a smoking gun of his ow

i heard perry speak without a

i know what governor perry said. but with pastor jeffress, are you going to accept his endorsement of the governor? does the governor want the endorsement of folks who call mormonism a cult? >> i'm not sure we can do anything about that. we get support from all kinds of folks. i think what you need to pay attention to is what the governor has to say. he made his position clear. this in our view is a distraction from the issues at hand. the economy, job creation, and is not a constructive debate to be having right now. >> is it fair to say we won't see pastor jeffress as a surrogate for the perry campaign? that we won't see him introducing governor perry at future events? >> well, that introduction was determined by voters. we didn't know he was going to make those remarks which happened, by the way, after it. unrelated. again, we want to get back to job creation, economy, and the governor's conservative record and not be distracted by those issues. which really aren't good for anybody. >> i want to go to the economy

debate stumbles to frame perry. how do you think perry should do this for romney? >> well i guess perry is clearly trying to align his argument against romney using the flip-flop argument, using the illegal immigration as a specific issue in particular. you know, here's the problem. there's not anything new in any of the things that perry thus far has put forward. i mean, these are issues that romney has already had to confront and deal with so he's prepared to handle them again. i think the issue for perry is, it's very clear, you know, that he is good on the attack, but what does he stand for? what idea is he putting forward and the latest ridiculousness of reigniting the whole birther controversy really shows he doesn't have much of his own in terms of fresh ideas or policy proposals he can campaign on, only campaigning against mitt romney. >> right, and for those of you who might not be that familiar with the whole birther issue, coming back into the spotlight, we're going to throw up a couple of graphics so you

governor perry is in iowa. we have a producer with him, he's at a barbecue in iowa, if he says anything we'll turn it around as quickly as possible. you say it's a burden on governor perry to say more. how does governor romney deal with this in the age of theness net, everything else, this will be circulated especially into places liiowa and south carolin. a new poll in new hampshire, wmur has mitt romney way ahead in new hampshire. if he can local that decent in iowa, he needs to win south carolina, he's on his way, that is going to be the biggest question mark. >> john, i think in a context of tomorrow, he doesn't want to continue stirring this controversy up. he's going to be asked about it in some interviews and then he needs to address it. and i think he'll have answers that will be persuasive for most americans, probably not all. it may be that sometime later in the campaign just as john kennedy had to give a speech, as you remember in texas to christian ministers, really compelling speech about his relig

perry with immigration. the difference with christie is this, if you watch him in action, there's this authenticity. he has the effect on republicans. he makes them want to like him. they work backwards and rationalize a way to like him. >> i think that personality could come back to really be a detriment. joe, what do you think? >> i agree. that's style over substance. i mean, and see, that's why the democrat -- president obama is really sitting back. he doesn't have to say a word because they -- it's a circular firing squad. they'll start shooting at each other and by the time you look up, whoever's left, you can talk about moving to the center or the establishment, but it will be one hell of a republican convention because the tea party folks are not going to stand for it. >> one quick answer from both of you. joe, does rick perry get past this latest controversy of his hunting ranch? >> i think this -- you know, to answer, my feeling is, no. because i don't think he has the consciousness that it would ta

the latest gop poll shows perry is floundering. they have romney at 30%, cain at 26%, perry at 13%. so you have romney who people say flip-flops and perry's just flopping. >> that's true. he very much is. he came in with so much energy and fanfare and shot to the top of the polls immediately. and then those debate performances that were so poor really affected his candidacy and of course romney was all too happy to point that out in the debate saying that no wonder perry was getting so testy in those debates, because he had so many poor debate performances. but i think in some ways this does play into the white house's hands. i got some e-mails -- >> what does it mean for the president? >> i got e-mails from democrats who were very happy with the way mitt romney especially came off in this debate. he came off as out of touch, like the harvard hall monitor who knew everything, calling on anderson cooper to rescue him as he was in this debate with rick perry. so they were very happy with the way he came off especially. and i think just in general all the republicans up there really bi

they like it that perry, at least perry people hope they do, they like it that perry is not afraid of obama. that he's going to poke obama. that he's the guy that will go after obama. that really is a more fundamental message in this birther -- this birther kind of clown show, frankly. >> in terms of what you have seen from him in previous campaigns, politico is reporting that texas republicans are slow even to endorse perry this time around. of course, he is way down at 6%. have you ever seen perry this far behind in a race with so little support from his party? is there any way to know how he will react? >> no. he finished 39% in the election six, eight years ago. i have never really seen him that far behind. the only time i've seen him an underdog in a statewide election was 1990 against jim hightower. very popular republican. with karl rove's help on rick perry's side, you had karl rove leaking to newspapers including our own information and testimony from a secret grand jury investigating the agriculture department raising questions about corruption. stories in the newspaper. hig

rick perry is fading fast. i could get in here and maybe sweep this thing, take it, just run right through. on the other hand, look what happened to rick perry as unprepared as he was. christie looks at a situation, i have not had any chance, i don't know that much about foreign policy or domestic policy. what if i get up in the glare and what happens to me happened to rick perry? it's a delicate balance to figure out what side to come down on. >> christie knows he's never once been in a public debate about social security, medicare, national defense. all these big and complex issues. he probably also knows he needs one good index card worth of material to win a republican debate on any one of these subjects, right? to sound smart enough. does he know what obviously perry didn't know? perry obviously wasn't crossing his mind what the name of his hunting camp was. in other words, all those vulnerabilities that you pick up over the course of your lifetime. something you said in college to someone you shouldn't ha

>> i don't know how much it says about rick perry. i can't read rick perry. i don't have any particular insights about how he feels about black people or african-americans. i was thinking about the clip you played from governor christie where he said this was a word from a long ago past. if you actually read the story and look at the people in the story who know what the camp was called, what they say is, i don't understand, what's the big deal? all these quotes all through the story. it's just what it's called. i don't understand why it would offend anybody. it's quite clear, it's not, we'd like to be from a long ago past, if you read the story it's actually not. >> it's interesting he put that in. it's important that we have put that all behind us. there's this tremendous disquiet when something like this emerges precisely because it seems to invalidate that whole story. >> right, right. well, i think when your constituency is made up and is predominantly white as a conservative movement is right now, you have to answer some pretty ugly questions you wouldn

perry, that came up. question, and he said? perry, he doesn't think it's real. and you said? perry, i don't have any idea. it doesn't matter. he's the president of the united states and he's elected. it's a distractive issue. well, there we go. rick perry has ripped the scab off this issue by saying he doesn't really believe the president was born here. i want to go to wayne slater. what crowd is this guy back in the double digits trying to appeal to? >> you suggested it in the intro. what part of the resurrection of the birther issue is going to cause him problems in western iowa, in western carolina, in the redneck riviera, in florida, it's not going to cause him any problems at all. >> why not? >> well, basically, what he's got to do, as you know, appeal to those people who are not going to be with romney. pull people away from cain, so do it with abortion. pull people away from everybody else. so what you do is resurrect the crowd on the right. and that includes both the anti-abortion people, the anti-gay marriage people, but also the birthers. the secessionists, the mili

and perry's problem is perry. ease clearly not a great debater. he doesn't have a lot of bandwidth. he opens his mouth, he's good for 24 -- two or three sentences. chris: he's good for his ads. they beat a debate performance? >> this is a primary forged on debates, these not great and he's dropping in the polls and the public is picking up on it. >> i think the ads will matter a lot. he's got $17 million in the bank and he's going to use them and he likes to get into these knife fights and he will continue doing that and what he wants to do is blunt the immigration issue which has been used against him. chris: how? he's attacking romney. that ad on the lawn care company and the attack was about immigration. what have people attacked perry on? immigration and supporting a version of the dream act in his sewn state so he put romney on by the way, the 2008 campaign is not off limits, i'm going to rerun it and remind people why they didn't like you. chris: can you imagine being in another country competing with us eco

i just cede my time back to rick perry. "no, no, i cede back to perry. he's doing great. keep going." the third perry debate was even worse than the first two. perry demonstrating an incredible unlearning curve. hey, man, it's early. no harm. no foul. >> rick perry is not prepared for the pressure of the presidential stage. >> you can replace him with a cardboard cut out and not noticed the difference. >> perry did horrible at this debate. >> rick perry sucked the other night. >> you can read it any of those three ways. perry really did throw up all over himself at the debate at a time when he needed to raise his game. >> jon: everything hume says has gravitas even when he's saying, you know, of course, chris, i've been doing this a long time. really in my estimation the texas governor rick perry really had diarrhea in his own hair. he really looked like he held it up for the crowd in terms of... look, look. look at my poop pants. that was at a time when i thought that the governor really needed to just answer the questions instead of taking a dump in his own pants. perry

and for team perry, bobby jindal, the republican governor of louisiana who endorsed governor perry of his neighboring state of texas last month. welcome to both of you. governor pawlenty, i have to ask you, any regrets about getting out of the republican race? >> no, i have no regrets. we took it as far as we could, and for me it meant we had to fold up the tent. but i'm really excited and honored to be supporting mitt romney. the number one issue in this race is going to be who can get this economy going and jobs growing, and he is the best candidate do that by far. >> you did say recently the decision you made after iowa was perhaps premature. did you look at the complexion of this race now, you think you could have stayed in and been a contender? >> well, that was in reference to some tactical decisions we had made during the campaign, not the decision to get out. certainly not the decision to support mitt. >> all right, let's talk about negatives on both sides. because these are negatives that have to be dealt with and overcome at this stage of the race. you heard from herman cain

perry has a following. the fact that matthew said that he didn't do well in debates, again, he is going to grow as a candidate if he wins the nomination. romney is going to grow as a candidate. herman cain is going to grow as a candidate if he wins the nomination. >> is cain, does he have sticking power? >> i think the problem is, cain, attractive though he is and intelligent, his 9-9-9 program, i think he has a low ceiling. >> can i ask haley a question? >> please. >> haley, george will, in the last five election cycles the republican presidential candidate have received 79% of their electoral votes from the south. that -- weigh that against the fact that these elections have to be won or loss in the north, obama has to carrying three of four of these states, ohio, pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin. all of which elected republican governors in 2010. now, do you think that rick perry is a good candidate to win those states in the north? >> look, he's had a very good record as the governor of texas. been

while rick perry was running the program, perry repeatedly told this lie. this has not cost texans money. in fact, the program cost texans -- texas taxpayers $50 million in bad loans and then governor perry once he became governor had the pleasure in 2009 of signing his own government bailout of the failed loan program he ran when he was agriculture socialism commissioner. an auditor found that perry had guaranteed loans to applicants with a negative net worth. have you ever tried to get a loan with a negative net worth? these are applicants who couldn't have paid back those loans. the auditor found that perry had violated the lending guidelines. perry's successor, susan colmes, also a republican, found the program in such hopeless condition that she simply stopped making agriculture socialism loans. now, good socialists like me like good socialism. programs that work as designed that we simply couldn't live without like unemployment insurance, social security, medicare. but bad socialists like rick perry, like bad socialism, like agriculture socialism and

rick perry is polling nationally at 6%. 6. that is a problem for rick perry. he is tanking. but tanking rick perry has a solution to this. rick perry appears this week to be launching his comeback plan. step one, he got himself some new establishment republican staff. a lot of bob dole for president staff, if you must know. seriously old school. step two, rick perry got himself a new herman cainesque flat tax. step three, he got himself a donald trumpesque birther platform, playing to the tin foil hat fringe implying that the president is secretly foreign and therefore not really president. as of today some new steps. tanking rick perry also floating the idea that he will fix his being bad at debates problem by going on offense. not by going on offense during the debates but by going on offense against the whole idea of debating. >> actually, these debates are set up for nothing more than to tear down the candidates. it's pretty hard to be able to sit and lay out your ideas and your concepts with a one-minute response. so you know, if there was a -- if there was a mistake ma

was going to endorse rick perry at this event but not on perry's stationary. they were from the church and the campaign says while they did sign off on this production int they did not arrange it. >> carrie, 20 minutes or so from now rick perry will take the podium. what do we expect to hear from the former massachusetts governor? >> reporter: this is going to be an interesting speech for mitt romney. sometimes he talks a lot about family values and the economy. he doesn't always delve into issues of religion for reasons that were very obvious yesterday, with a controversy with this pastor. wee seal what he says. an interesting take from ron paul who spoke this morning. something you don't normally hear from a libertarian candidate. talking about economic, his anti-war values actually tie back to the bible and spoke at length about scripture. that's something we're going to see again today as well. >> carrie jann, many thanks. >>> don't forget to stay current on the latest with the campaign trail. >>> stunning new twists in the case of a missing baby in missou

the perry campaign knows that it is very unlikely that now for perry to land the kind of shots in the debates that they would like to see him land so they have to script those videos in order to have any kind of impact against romney. >> uh-huh. i think that's a good explanation, lawrence. i think the debate will matter. the other thing rick perry is trying to do is stay in the conversation as the main alternative to mitt romney. it has to be infuriating. i know it's infuriating to the perry campaign people, to the cain campaign people, to everybody else on the republican side. if you looked at that poll, lawrence, you saw mitt romney trails no opinion by 5 percentage points. so he's the weakest front-runner in modern history and yet none of the others seem to really be able to get much traction against him. and in talking to one of rick perry's top strategists the other day, i said, look, you know, where are you guys going with this? i mean, things are not going great. he said, look, howard, it's going to be -- the shape of this race is mitt romney against a conservative. now, he did

let's switch to perry right now. you know, perry came out swinging, as we all know and from watching the debate and so did romney. is there any reaction to that moment that romney, you know, when he put his hand on perry's shoulder and was element schooling perry in that situation? >> i haven't add chance to go back and check the tapes yet but a rm knee aid told me there is a moment from a another debate where perry put his arm on romney so they say he played the personal space card first. i think that's a seminole moment, certainly an image of last night's debate. leaving las vegas, a giant photo on the front page of the las vegas review journal. >> all right. garrett haake. appreciate your time today. i know you got to get on that flight, you are already on that flight, we will talk to you again soon. >> coming to you from seat 10 d. >> well done. then herman cain charging hard in the polls. it could hurt in the end. for more, we go to andrew raverty. good day to you. the debate began with herman cain getting it fr

in that way, rick perry did succeed. now, the back and forth again, i don't know that f that was beneficial to either in them. but in drawing mitt romney out, that clearly worked. >> let me make a point to both of you. this is what mitt romney had to say, and he was basically saying, you know, i was running for office, therefore i made sure that we got rid of these illegals. take a look. >> i don't think we have that tape ready. but can i say, he said, we hired a lawn company to know our lawn. they had illegal immigrants working there. when that was pointed out to us we let them go. we went to them and said, perry said, a year later. and he said you have a problem with allowing someone to finish speaking. but he made the point, romney did, that it was because he was running for office that checked it out. bottom line is it was wrong. why was it happening? >> right. get to perry wants to do. a lot of elections are down to a values choice. you are trying to get at gut level of the voter. what perry has been trying to do an

gwen: how is rick perry changing his strategy? >> this postcard, this is the size of what we're talking about right here. taxpayers will be able to feel this out and file their taxes on that. gwen: can president obama regain the upper hand on the economy. >> we should be doing everything we can to put a college education within reach for every american. gwen: and is the congressional supercommittee moving forward or treading water? >> today we may be debating the pennies, nickels and dimes in a debt crisis that is demanding half dollars and dollar bills. >> if this committee's going to work, and i believe that it must, we all need to be willing to make some tough decisions and real compromises. gwen: the fall temperatures are dropping but the debates are heating up. covering the week, john dickerson of "slate" magazine and cbs news. john harwood of cnbc and "the new york times." jackie calmes of "the new york times," and janet hook of "the wall street journal." >> award-winning reporting and analysis, covering history as it happen

got him off that game, and i think that's a plus for rick perry, even though rick perry didn't look that good doing it. >> he was biting on his ankle. notice how newt is envies of the fight, saying gee whiz, i wish i was in this fight. >> and newt suggested that the way he would win the presidency is by having seven three-hour debates with barack obama. >> good. >> 21 hours of debates. i agree with josh. what happened here is that rick perry dragged mitt romney down to his rick perry's level which is a tough street fight in a dusty street in texas. >> let's take a look at this. a very telling moment for mitt romney. the former massachusetts governor again in a heated back and forth with perry over the use of illegal immigrants to take care of his property. he defended himself, but listen to the words he uses at the end. they are incredibly incriminating. let's listen. >> we hired a lawn company to mow our lawn, and they had illegal immigrants that were working there, and when that was pointed out to us, we let them go and we went to them. >> are you a -- >> you have a problem allowi

and said perry isn't racist. while it is jefferson who was appointed to be the first black chief justice, the controversy is, quote, much a do about nothing. he says perry appreciates the role he plays in our state and nation, and quote to imply the governor condoned either the use of the word or the sentiment i find false. >> i think rick perry only likes those words like the rest of us like it. >> and interestingly enough, his family used to work for thomas jefferson. >> that's a good point. >> first of all, thank you for bravely coming out against the n word. kudos for taking the stand. >> our nation needs more people like that. secondly, perry's dad painted over the words "end of story" but is it? the washington post sites several people saw the word on iraq well after perry says his dad painted over it in the early 80s. >> anonymous people are like those people who go on blogs. you candice credit them. they are anonymous. >> okay. >> you know why i think they are anonymous because they went on the hunting tr

and "rick perry enfor forcdorse mexico." even though rick perry entered the presidential race late, he was still obviously not yet prepared for the national limelight. even though according to my next guest, rick perry is the permanent candidate. joining me now is alec mcgillis at the new republican and autho of "the permanent candidate: what's driving rick perry." >> thanks for having me. >> your article takes us through rick perry's candidate as the permanent candidate. there are a lot of vivid moments. someone tries to explain policy to him, he says, don't bother, i wouldn't understand it anyway. >> right. >> is that typical of perry's approach to policy? >> it is. this is not someone who's overly concerned with policy. somewhat like his predecessor in texas, george bush. what i really found in his piece for "the new republic" is really this is a man who's not really driven by ideology. as much as he's been made out to be a hardened right week ideologue, that's not the way people in texas look at him or understand him. th

perry over illegal immigration. our panel has plenty to talk b before bring them back in i want to bring in key moments about the debate, began with an all-out assault on herman cain's 9-99-9 plan. we will talk to him in a moment let's take a look. >> herman, i love you, brother, but you don't need to have a big analysis to figure this thing out. go to new hampshire where they don't have a sales tax and you're fixing to give them one. they're not interested in 9-9-9. >> herman, are you saying the state sales tax will go away? >> you're mixing apples and oranges? you will pay the state sales tax, no matter what whether you throw out the existing code and you put in our plan, you are still going to pay that. that's apples and oranges. >> and i'm going to be getting a bushel basket that has apples and oranges in it because i've got to pay both taxes and the people in nevada don't want to pay both taxes. >> governor romney, you don't have credibility when it comes to obama care. >> each chance i've had to talk about oba