paul ryan last night being amazing. joining us now is chris hayes, the host of msnbc's weekend show "up with chris hayess." chris' new book "twilights of the elites: america of meritocracy." >> great to be here. >> we watched two elite washington operators last night, two men who spent their whole adult lives in washington. does that mean that paul ryan's sin is such a common sin that it's not an important one? >> no. no. it is very important, and it is very common. but here's why it's so important. there seems to me sometimes a desire on the part of the romney campaign and equal desire sometimes among liberals and the obama campaign to talk about this grand ideological battle about the size of government. really what we're having, we're fighting about the size of government and there is nothing in the record of the republican party to suggest that they will shrink government. it just doesn't -- it's not there. you've written about this in your book "drift," under reagan, we saw it under george w. bush. government grew

paul ryan, no answer. asked what exactly a romney/ryan administration would do differently on iran and on syria, that is more strong than what the obama administration is doing since they've criticized the administration as weak, what would they do that would be stronger? no answer from paul ryan which led joe biden to say, hey, the only other thing we're not doing that we could be doing is war. are you saying you want a war? no answer. here's my favorite one. >> let me ask you quickly what's your criteria for intervention? >> yeah. >> in syria? >> worldwide. >> what is in the national interest of the american people. what is in the national security of the american people. it's got to be in a strategic national interest of our country. >> no humanitarian? >> each situation will come up with its own set of circumstances but putting american troops on the ground, that's got to be within the national security interests of the american people. >> so, congressman, how will you make national security decisions

paul ryan's budget. i think that is going to be a piece of the discussion tonight and i think that is, you know, part of what the american people need to decide on, whether or not they want a budget that protects tax cuts for those at the top but is cutting education, and veterans and clean energy, innovation, infrastructure, turning medicare into a voucher program. those are the types of choices that the meamerican people have before them and that will be part of the discussion tonight. >> you said earlier today, stephanie, that paul ryan and mitt romney are politicizing the attack in benghazi that killed our ambassador there. the republican national committee responded to those remarks from you by calling them a profanity that i will not say, but that starts with the word "bull." i wonder if you care to respond to the rnc, to the rnc responding to you and if you stand by those comments and what you meant by them. >> well, a couple of things. first, i appreciate the outrage from the rnc and the republic

that's paul ryan. you have paul ryan who voted against the act. why would romney who wants to be trusted and likable by women pick someone who is this extreme on women's issues? >> this is what i hope happens tonight. i hope biden is that foolish to say some of those things. >> why do you say it's foolish? >> romney is running for president of the united states. and we are, the women gap is closing every day because you know what women care about. we don't want to secure for p s prostearty and medicare and social security. >> the lily ledbetter act is about women in the economy not being able to participate and paul ryan doesn't believe that women should have the same rights in the workplace. >> are you kidding? >> this is one of the traps, i think, for paul ryan tonight. the goal here, i think, for the democrats tonight is to put paul ryan on defense. explain yourself, justify yourself, move the spotlight off of barack obama's debate. >> completely distorts what he believes and who he is -- >> that would never happen. >> but my point was going to

he's known paul ryan forever. they're from the same distribute in wisconsin and they're both young and grew up together in wisconsin politics. >> we've seen rand paul, as well and other elected officials. what are you watching for tonight? you've got roughly 25 minutes before this officially gets under way, the actual debate. >> the thing i love is you can say you're watching for something, but i feel like at the end of the night, whatever happens is nothing that we could have necessarily predicted. so that is the beauty of it. but right now what i'm looking for, i'm looking toward the foreign policy section of this. you have joe biden, who really has a leg up when it comes to foreign policy, having been the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee and paul ryan doesn't have that experience, but at the same time, the obama-biden ticket is so vulnerable when it comes to libya. i want to see how he handles that. >> it was interesting hearing mitt romney talk about paul ryan's lack of experience. >> exactly

that's what paul ryan said? so in other words if somebody comes into his office and says, hey, i need $20 million for this project, it's just a quick stamp of approval? ryan's part of the problem in washington, and he's trying to blame the democrats for it. at certain points the vice president was openly fact checking paul ryan's comments in realtime. >> this is a plan that's bipartisan. it's a plan i put together with a prominent democrat senator from oregon. >> there's not one democrat who endorses it. not one democrat who signed the plan. >> our partner is a democrat from oregon. >> he says he does no longer support -- >> we put it together with the former clinton budget director. >> who disavows it. >> this idea came from the clinton commission to save medicare chaired by senator john breaux. here's the point, martha. >> which was rejected. >> if we don't -- >> that was a crucial point in the debate right there. here's a guy trying to talk about a plan that has bipartisan support and joe biden stood up for t

and paul ryan. so it is very much up to vice president biden to take a shot here and try to stop some of that momentum because if you see a win by paul ryan, it's covered as a one-two punch. the momentum will continue. we know talking to some of the vice president's aides that he's going to come out swinging. this's the expectation, to be on offense. we've been told he's eager, feeling good and trying to draw a contrast. when you look at the tiny table in the picture, brooke, it is a pretty intimate setting. if he's going to get in to it and draw a contrast, that's sort of code for confrontation. we'll see if he makes good on the promise of the team. >> bring yaannbrianna, do they say something memorable, as in not in a good way memorable? >> reporter: you'll remember he's sort of known as a bit of a gaffe machine. puts in his foot in his mouth from time to time. he said that the middle class buried for four years and that was something that the romney campaign just jumped on. the thing is, while he

cnn paul ryan . cnbc. winner 20 points. >> brian: cbsdid joe biden. >> steve: they did a focus group for 50 people. >> gretchen: we have frank coming up. and we'll show you that. now the rest of the head lineups for friday. one month after ambassador stevens was ciled. lawrence pope is the new charge of affairs. he will represent. pope retired 12 years ago and an ambassador to chad and political advisor for the special command and special operations in the middle east. governor mitt romney getting a spiritual boost from billy graham. >> reverend graham added he would do everything to help him. franklin graham has provided council to every president since harry frume an. we should know whether the body found in colorado. the body is not intact. jessica disappeared while walking to school. a body was found in the park sevenmiles fr where she was last seen. the winner of this year's nobel peace prize and the winner is not a person. who is it? >> the nobel peace prize is to be awarded to the european union. >>

ryan last night that he hadn't heard over the last four days. >> do you actually put on a paul ryan voice when you're pretending to be him? >> well, look, i'm not trying to go for any academy awards on the acting side. my main job, piers, was to present the arguments and really try and get my lines down as closely as possible to the language that paul ryan uses, and i must say, since i sit next to paul ryan in the budget committee and have followed sort of his expressions along the campaign trail, i think that we were able to mirror that pretty well. but look, the main thing was that the vice president laid out a case with passion, and he really punctured some of the big sort of myths that the romney/ryan plan has built up. >> tell me this. libya has blown up today as a big issue from the debate, mainly because joe biden used this phrase that we, which he says meant he and the president, had no idea there had been any requests from benghazi for extra security prior to this assassination of the ambassador there. when you were prepping with joe biden, the libya question, you must have

paul ryan's people thought paul ryan definitively won. when end of the day they're appealing to the middle. >> there's so few undecideds at this point that that is a big reason, we're told, why joe biden did what he did. because the democratic base was really deflated, demoralized, after the president didn't deliver from their perspective. that's why he was frankly in many ways over the top. in some ways that's who he is. it's why he did what he did. if you talk about what happened in the spin room afterwards, that was the big debate. was he disrespectful for joe being joe? >> you won't be surprised to hear that both sides went into full spin mode in that spin room, that conversation happened. you can listen to both people immediately afterwards talk about how their candidate won the debate. everything was under the microscope, including ryan's level of experience, and joe biden's interruptions, and his facial expressions, as dana just said. here's a little listen. >> i think congressman ryan was out of his depth, and showed clearly that

look, he's got to nail paul ryan, attach him to those policies even as paul ryan, using your pugilistic metaphor, attempts to slip the punches. joe biden has to continue to nail him. he has to say you are out here talking about vouchers for health care, you were out here talking about severe cuts to medicare, you were out here speaking with social security overhauling and you are the person who has been deeply and profoundly opposed to so-called obama care. he has to talk about that vicious budget. speak about his, if you will, redoing of the budget, but he's got to not allow him to do is makeover in the debate the same way that mr. romney did against president bush. he's got to call him on it in live time right there on the spot so that he can't associate himself with the new romney. he's got to associate mr. ryan with his budget recommendations and with the draconian measures that have been put forth in the past. >> and that budget of course voted on only a few months ago. mark, what are the other main weaknesses you see starting with paul ryan and moving on to joe biden? >> i think h

paul ryan was on board. the democrats have now signaled as of this debate tonight they're going to try to it hold him to that, make him run on privatizing social security. in all the conversations you had on policy with paul ryan, was he telling you that the republican leadership made him take privatizing social security out of his plan, but he's still for it, he still wants that? >> well, the part about the republican leadership is well known. he didn't say that in any specific interviews. one thing that's important to know here, and this came out a lot tonight in the debate. ryan, as of a couple of years ago, not 50 years ago or ten years ago, but two years ago h a much more extreme set of policies. he had privatization and a medicare policy. he disputed the $6400 number. it would have done that. that's in a congressional budget office report. it also, unlike the romney/ryan plan, would have completely eliminated traditional medicare. it wouldn't have even been an option. one truth about ryan's record here

>> i thought that was a great answer from paul ryan. i thought it was deeply felt, it was sincere and i think it always pay for pro-life politicians to go right to the moral beliefs because i think most people will give someone a lot of leeway on that, and if you actually look at the breakdown of polls in terms of gender there is not a big gender gap in terms of who is pro-life and who is pro-choice. the gender gap is driven more by different attitudes women have actually on size of government, issues and government policy generally, and one thing i think was interesting in this -- after the presidential debate, you saw on some polls the gender gap closeup when romney didn't talk about women at all and when they obsessed over it in the convention to me that was a sign that women like all other voters are really judging on the most important and central issue in this campaign, and that is the economy, when romney was more credible on that and gained with everyone including women. >> rose: chuck todd, will fact checkers tomorrow morning l

a huge stage for paul ryan. we're going to be looking for how joe biden addresses the issue of seniors and medicare, we're going to be look at how paul ryan carries those attacks and how he's able defend the romney/ryan ticket as opposed to his own positions and his own statements. romney's been modulating a little bit or saying some things that were somewhat garbled on abortion this week. i think you're going to hear a lot about that tonight. >> medicare, abortion, i think benghazi. >> i i agree. >> joe biden, former chairman of the foreign relation committee and this very strong attack from the republican on leading the committee that had a four-hour hearing pillaring the state department yesterday. >> an area where anticipation had been joe biden would be able to press a grav as it. benghazi complicated that and you'll see paul ryan hit that. >> "time" magazine, your magazine out, and preprized k k pictures they took for the runner-up when paul ryan was runner-up for man of the year. do we need more proof tha

not as many know paul ryan. so you are paul ryan, how do you introduce yourself to the american people to make a big splash. >> i don't think he needs to make a big splash . >> he is smart, he understands the numbers i think that is who he needs to be, who he is, who he is, is what we need. neil: the rap against him, i have no problem with people being nerds, i built a career on it, but he wonex wonks people oe is a numbers guy, that can bore people in this venue. >> if he puts the numbers in context like governor romney dhow it relates to our average american, gas prices have doubled. where we are with the economy. anemic economic growth, the debt, what it means for the americans and their children, and us and our future. that is where the numbers matter, that is his strength going into this. looking back at governor's debate, he had the numbers and weaved it into the vision for america. neil: do you think he will heat. you voted against the debt commission, i know he felt the debt commission did not address en

paul ryan did help himself. he came across informed, sober, credible, wasn't flustered by biden's antics. i think that was important. i think you'll see a lot of swing voters and independent voters gravitate to that style, that tone that he did show a level of leadership people are looking for. >> always good to have you on the program. thank you. >>> the european union has been awarded the nobel peace prize. the committee says it gave the award for the eu's work of building peace among enemies over the last 60 years. the panel said the eu transformed most of europe from a continent of war to a continent of peace and still does today despite the current economic crisis. >>> three men under arrest in the shooting of 14-year-old pakistani activist. police say they caught the men in a raid judge just last night. that the suspects gave them the name of the master mind of the attack. mullala is in satisfactory condition. she began speaking out against the taliban when she was just 11 years old. they came onto her tow

i'm sure he was pleased with paul ryan's performance. the republicans like how paul ryan did. democrats certainly like how joe biden did as well. let's take a loeser look at focus group of undecided virginia voters. how they responded. we measured reaction. the green line represents men. the yellow line is women. biden's best moment of the night. happened around 9:25 p.m. eastern. the question, if it's possible to get unemployment below 6%. listen to theice president talk about taxes and the economy. >> >>. >> they should be pledging to the middle class, we're going to level the playing feel. we'll give you a fair shot again. we're not going to repeat the mistakes we've done in the past by having a different set of rules for wall street and main street, making sure we continue to hemorrhage these tax cuts for the superwealthy. >> now let's take a look at paul ryan's best moment. he peaked at 9:27 p.m. eastern, answering the same question that biden peaked at. >> we need real reforms for real recovery. exactly what mitt romney and i are positive proposing. help people get the s

he, this was paul ryan being paul ryan. he is solid, respectful. he answered questions in the time allotted. he gave detail where he could give detail. he explained things i thought in a compelling way and that he had several good lines that didn't seem like prepackaged, preplanned lines. and i think the thing i found most interesting as someone who covered him over the course of much of his career how fluent he was on foreign policy in particular. i know when he was first asked to submit vetting materials to the romney campaign he began at that time, before he was picked an intensive study of foreign policy and national security issues to make sure he would be prepared for that haven'ty if he were picked to participate in a debate. felt like that to me. bill: that was back in june and july. there were headlines made in this debate. it was just not the reaction of nonverbal. on topics like lick i can't here is what joe biden explained at the top of this interview last night the debate. >> intelligence community told us that. as they learned more fa

paul ryan's family, paul ryan's business, paul ryan's whole life in janisville, wisconsin, when he was busy sitting there reading ayn rand and dreaming of a libertarian independent future, that whole life was made possible by the help of government. by social security supplemental income when his father died at a young age. by roads, by railroads, by government programs. this is a cooperative effort. and this is what mitt romney and paul ryan are rejecting and what joe biden and barack obama need too defend. it couldn't be more fundamental or more urgent, because without the counterargument, mitt romney is rocketing to the lead in the popular vote and he's catching up in the electoral college very quickly. it couldn't be more important tomorrow night. everybody says vice presidential debates don't matter. this one really does. >> i think it does. i think it really does. it's -- and i also think it sets the table for ryan to prove that hays the true conservative, that the conservatives want him to be. and the question is, is he going to leave that stage being the same guy or is he going

i want to do a word to describe paul ryan's performance tonight. >> paul ryan an awesome opponent. >> quickly. >> i thought he did a good job. >> go ahead. >> i thought ryan and martha allowed biden to interrupt too often. >> unfocused. >> i felt like he was confident and respectful. >> and i think he was looking scared. >> prepared. >> deb onyair. >> deb onyair. -- so talking about biden interrupting and occasional laughing. did you see that? is that obvious to you? >> i thought it's disrespectful. he had plenty of time to respond. shouldn't have done it. >> i thought huge mistake and very arrogant. i can't forget that. >> did you have an issue with it? >> yes. i thought it was disrespectful. >> so as you watch this, your conclusion are they qualified to be president? yes or no? so i guess my question is... now that you've watched the two of them, your reaction as you compare the two? would be? dan? >> compare the two? biden could be president. ryan basically still learning to be president. social certainly he would be capable of it. >> did he exceed your expectations? he exceeded it

the laughs, 82 times that joe biden interrupted paul ryan. >> paul ryan was interrupting too. >> i don't know who his debate partner was, maybe it was ed schultz from msnbc, not sure. >> at one point, the moderator asked congressman ryan to offer specifics, where are loopholes going to be cut back to pay for the romney/ryan tax cut plan. >> the congressman has provided boat loads of specifics, look at tax policies, the ryan plan, the five-point plan, 59-point plan, the fact of the matter, we have specifics coming out of our ears, and joe biden and barack obama and the democrats have not passed the budget. they haven't passed a budget in over three years. no ground to stand on in this country in this debate. no ground for president of the united states of america to be lecturing anybody about budgeting. they failed in their duty to this country. >> one thing you said before this debate. joe biden has been debating since the 1800s, so he has boat loads of experience. dewin tonight? >> no, he didn't use the experience he has to be respectful, clear, and state your point, wait for your oppon

very different for paul ryan. paul ryan shirtless, paul ryan workout. these are search terms that paul ryan cannot shake. as son as he was mentioned for the running mate, shirtless has been one of the leading related searches. >> during the debate, people are saying paul ryan shirtless. >> talking about afghanistan, iran, the ayatollahs and people are searching what does he look like without his shirt on. >> such a big deal everybody is talking about it. i must admit that i also googled it because everybody -- this was early on though. anyway, how do these terms compare to last week? >> well, they were -- there's been a lot of interest, and i think it's just building and building. i think one thing that was interesting about last night taking a step back and not just looking at the debate but searches in general around the country, how they compared to pop culture and entertainment, the vice presidential debate last night was more search than things like miley cyrus and baseball, so people are really getting interested in this election at this point. >>

across the face of paul ryan. -- that was not the smirk that came across the face of paul ryan. i think he made the points that he needed to make. >> basically, two-person debates are far better when both people show up and they showed up. [laughter] of like a week ago when only one showed up. -- unlike a week ago when only one showed up. paul ryan played it naturally cool for his first national te. and thought joe biden had democrats pulling back off the ledge from the third floor window where they were ready to plunge. i think he made the case. i think he nailed paul ryan a couple of times specifically on the lack of any details on the tax plan. secondly, paul ryan is request for a stimulus find, two written request, those were one of the few times tha paul ryan knew better than to respond. >> what about on medicare, social security, up with the middle class, who won on that? >> we could be here all day. at least you had a discussion about the economy as opposed to last week. yes, it was a one-sided conversation

and paul ryan, some could say he held his own. the fireworks flew from the start. >> vice president joe biden and congressman paul ryan. >> one month ago tonight on the anniversary of 9/11, ambassador chris stevens and three other brave americans were killed in a terrorist attack in benghazi. wasn't this a massive intelligence failure, vice president biden? >> wherever the facts lead us, wherever they lead us, we will make clear to the american public because whatever mistakes were made will not be made again. >> this is becoming more troubling by the day. they first blame the youtube video, now they're trying to blame the romney/ryan ticket for making this an issue. >> with all due respect that's a bunch of malarkey. when there's a crisis we pull together as a nation. even before we knew what happened to the ambassador the governor was holding a press conference, holding a press conference. that's not presidential leadership. >> the debate moved from foreign policy to the 47%. >> it shouldn't be surprising for a guy who says 47%

who is the real paul ryan here. are you anti-women or for women and women rights. >> here's how he responded to, quote, legitimate rape comments. >> his comments were outrageous. i don't know anyone who would agree with that. rape is rain. period, end of story. >> outrageous, over the pale. paul ryan himself is trying to redefine rape. in 2011 he co-sponsored bills. those bills restricted the definition of rape. and then the language was changed. according to rhian, unless it's forceable rape, it's not rain? >> i think that's a really good question. forceable should be in the definition of rape itself. nobody want to be raped and i think that what gets lost among the outrage of all of these comments, of course, akin's comments about all of these bodies showing down pregnancy and women who rape easy, the comments are outrageous and offensive and the policies that sort of subscribe to this belief that women can't be trusted when they say they have been raped. either they are too stupid or they are lying. that's why yo