glenn greenwald still with us who has broken the series. glenn greenwald, can you talk about the latest revelation about the cyberattacks that was the most recent exposÉ? sure. we read this document and it was remarkable because it set for this aggressive policy whereby the u.s. could wage with the document itself called offensive cyberwarfare against any other entity or any other nation in the world simply in the event it advances u.s. interest -- not if we're being attacked or it was necessary to prevent an imminent attack. the judgment of others said doing so would advance national others. they have the right to wage cyber war. the pentagon had declared cyber an aggression of war. there were no planning details, no blueprints for how these attacks would be waged, nothing harmful about publishing it but it was an extraordinary policy that had been secretly adopted by the president with no debate. we believe debate was warranted. >> there's a great irony in snowden revealing his identity from hong kong. president obama at the time wrappin

your response, glenn greenwald? >> first of all, there is this constant claim made about how democrats and republicans are at each other's throat and have radically different views of the world that are irreconcilable. mike rogers is one of the most rightwing members of the house caucus when it comes to national security issues, yet he sounds exactly the same as diane feinstein, of every single democrat in the senate who is speaking about these issues. there is never a division on this questions. they declare anyone an enemy who attempts to bring transparency to what they're doing. secondly, it is laughable about national security. the only things we published were reports that the u.s. government is spying on the terrorists or the chinese government, but on american citizens indiscriminately. tens of millions, even hundreds brigit -- at a time at a time. the only thing that was not apparatusthis spying was directed at the american citizenry and not terrorists. that is the only thing that has been damaged, not the n

is glenn greenwald. he is back in brazil from hong kong where he broke the major stories on the national security agency and what it is doing with our e-mail, phone calls, and much more. >> i want to go back to obama's interview monday night. obama dismissed fears the bulk collection of metadata could be abused. >> the very fact that there is all of this data in bulk, it has the enormous potential for abuse because there will say, we start looking at metadata, even if you don't know the names, you can add to that. and there's a call to a doctor or lawyer, compared up and figure out maybe this person is dying in writing their will and you could deal of misinformation. all of that is true. except for the fact that the government under the program to do that right now, it would be illegal. >> obama saying we have a trove of information but it is not access unless there's probable cause. your response? >> first of all, the fact there are legal constraints in place as we've seen repeatedly throughout history

glenn greenwald? >> first of all, the fact something is lawful doesn't mean it isn't dangerous or tyrannical or wrong. you can enact laws that are tyrannical. when you look at a look atcts, that is what the war on terror has been about. i would differ too to the senators who are her colleagues, ron wyden and mark udall, there are good democrats that a spent two years now running around trying to get people to listen to them as they have been saying, look, with the obama administration is doing and interpreting the patriot is so radical and so distorted and worked, that americans will be stunned to learn -- their words -- what is being done in the name of these secret legal theories in terms of the power the obama administration has claimed for itself on how can spy on americans. when the patriot act was enacted, nobody thought, even upon its of the patriot act, that it would be ever used to enable the government to gather up everybody's telephone records and communication records without regard to whe

of snowden glenn greenwald for bringing out these points people like ari fleischer and then in the very same sentence they'll say but we need to have a national conversation about these things i'm not sure how or when we would have this national conversation if we didn't know about these things to some extent in the first place which we do now thanks to those guys but brad obama says that the n.s.a. program has struck the right balance if you look at the details of course those are classified if spying on everyone through the right balance i'd hate to see is death and overreach but interestingly enough i mean you point out ari fleischer i mean obama loyalists are using the same rhetoric to defend the president that bush supporters used to defend his illegal wiretapping program how come he wanted a partner see here. yeah it's kind of remarkable you would think it would make some of these defenders of obama sort of take pause when they see ari fleischer the guy who was willing to lie and make up any excuse possible for george w. bush when when they see the that now fleischer and obama are

lawmaker after another meanwhile guardian reporter glenn greenwald who broke the n.s.a. surveillance story is also in the spotlight take a look at how this case is unfolding in the media. to the extent that you have aided and abetted snowden even in his current movements why shouldn't you mr green will be charged with a crime i think it's pretty extraordinary that anybody who would call themselves a journalist would publicly muse about whether or not other journalists should be charged with felonies the russians right now or playing games with those they clearly have the ability to turn them over to chose three countries so far that we now have china russia and possibly cuba these are three places that are notorious for spying on their own set as and you know he gets into a country that's hostile to the u.s. when i get them back and he's picked one of three you know he could have gone to cuba venezuela or or ecuador three most hostile to the u.s. in central and south america so how is the media doing in this conference of this case all for more i'm joined by erik wemple

one last question for glenn greenwald. glenn, respond to your critics who as you know have made a case against you, against snowden saying, look, this is not a case of a courageous whistle-blower who worked through the system even available to whistle-blowers to report something that you may think is abuse. this is a partisan who is single-handedly deciding to expose programs that there is both support for and in doing so illegally, this is more of an enda. there's frankly a lot of concern that one person would take it upon himself to undermine a program that a lot of people believe is actually helpful to national security. >> right. this is what the u.s. government, what you just -- the claim that you just referenced has been saying for decades. they said the same thing about daniel ellsberg, the same thing about whoever leaked the bush nsa eavesdropping program to "the new york times" in 2005 or who told the "washington post's" dre' that priest about cia blacklakes. this is how the government always tries to protect them

snowden glenn greenwald for bringing out these points people like ari fleischer and then in the very same sentence they'll say but we need to have a national conversation about these things i'm not sure how or when we would have this national conversation if we didn't know about these things to some extent in the first place which we do now thanks to those guys but brad obama says that the n.s.a. program has struck the right balance if you look at the details of course those are classified if spying on everyone the right balance i'd hate to see is deafening overreach but interestingly enough i mean you point out ari fleischer i mean obama loyalists are using the same rhetoric to defend the president that bush supporters used to defend his illegal wiretapping program how come he wanted a partner see here. yeah it's kind of remarkable you would think it would make some of these defenders of obama sort of take pause when they see ari fleischer the guy who was willing to lie and make up any excuse possible for george w. bush when when they see the that now fleischer and obama are you kno

it's outrageous i think glenn greenwald was asked yesterday by a. rather prominent journalist whether he was and aiding and abetting a felon and i think it's an outrageous question by one journalist to another but i'm not surprised i mean. that journalists would say it would. basically pick up the talking points of the administration and not to do the job properly we certainly haven't seen the likes and the magnitude of a scandal such as the n.s.a. scandal and several years to say the least why do you think it is that the media instead of focusing on what the obama administration was was doing on what was revealed by these documents this tremendous violation of privacy of millions of people why does it is it that they're following every single detail about snowden but not really talking about the substance of this huge privacy scandal should we be surprised or was this really something that we should've gotten used to by now well it's not surprising that. the focus should be. on the now today on this sort of the cat and mouse story but it's absurd b

paul, you just watched our interview of glenn greenwald before the break. does the newspaper publishing this story, does that give you any pause? >> yeah, it does, because you and i and people -- journalists of our generation grew up with this old-school notion that you're an opinion writer or a reporter but you're not both. and so it makes all of us feel like there could be a problem here. does glenn greenwald have his thumb on the scales as he's writing these news stories? he is right, though. you can judge the stories on their merits and on their merits alone. forget about his opinions. tell me the information. is it fair? is it accurate? and in this case it has stood up. >> ed snowden, the source, also approached the liberal filmmaker laura poitrace who was in touch with greenwald and bart gelman. lynn, you heard glenn greenwald say the old notion reporters have to keep their opinions out of things is old fashioned and sources gravitate toward people who agree with them. >> i disagree with paul. i think that greenwald is featuring more like a columnist

glenn greenwald referenced it about whether he should or will face charges. i want to acknowledge there is a debate on twitter that goes on online about this, even as we're speaking. here's what greenwald has treated after this morning. who needs the government to try to criminalize journalism when you have david gregory to do it. he claims to be a journalist, raising questions, which is not actually embracing any particular point of view. that's part of the tactics of the debate when lawmakers have questioned him, there's a question about his role in this, the guardian's role in all of this. it is actually part of the debate rather than going after the questioner. he could take on the issues and he had an opportunity to do that here on "meet the press." what is journalism, mike murphy, and what is appropriate is actually part of this debate. >> absolutely. the great irony is the so-called whistleblower can only go to almost rogue nations to hide. because if it was a rule of law, he would get extradited. it's a bad sign for hong kong that has built an image o

greenwald the spotlight i think. it's dangerous when you see people calling for his prosecution for simply having that opinion that you're stating. i wouldn't buy i don't know barbara i don't know but well i have to look at the law if you if you break the law and should be prosecuted i don't have a brawl broke out of that with a. lot was larry king state or not the break i'll talk to former u.s. ambassador edward peck and get his take on the violence that's plaguing countries all across the middle east. wealthy british sign up. for. market why not. why not what's really happening to the global economy with mike stronger no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to conjure reports on our. i would rather as questions for people in positions of power instead of speak on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on r.g.p. question more. is he to you. if you. eat. another log. of your job or seem anything like on the run. up. to. this past weekend a suicide bomber blew

so if you were looking for the kind of channel to get this sort of material out, then glenn greenwald is somebody who you would expect to take it seriously, know a great deal about it and be able to distribute it. but "the guardian" has a recently long kind of history of disclosing really astonishing stories. very recently in the last two or three years phone hacking. >> phone hacking is a classic example. we will talk to both of you later this hour. i've got to get to a break. when we come back, more on the media coverage of this remarkable unfolding story. in parks across the country, families are coming together to play, stay active, and enjoy the outdoors. and for the last four summers, coca-cola has asked america to choose its favorite park through our coca-cola parks contest. winning parks can receive a grant of up to $100,000. part of our goal to inspire more than three million people to rediscover the joy of being active this summer. see the difference all of us can make... together. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take u

greenwald as traitors. was a total phony he is anti-american he loves to radical regime and he did this because he hates america this had nothing to do with publicizing information that was alan dershowitz last night on c.n.n. a slightly softer tone from the tenant colonel ralph peters who recently suggested that snowden and manning should both receive the death penalty but to cut through some of this inflammatory rhetoric to give us the real insight on the story i'm joined now by michael ratner president of the center for constitutional rights and attorney for joining us on q. and wiki leaks michael thank you so much for coming on have it's good to be with you always so you've been closely following this case do you know anything more about the status of edward snowden at this point why do you think he still at the airport now i don't know abie i mean what's been said is that you have to he's now in the transit lounge in moscow and according to what we read in wiki leaks has said he's apparently what the t

any more than glenn greenwald did. and more importantly, i don't think the vast majority of people that you see opining on what helps the terrorists have any fricking clue what actually does or doesn't. it is a problem for this country and for the functioning of our democracy when glenn greenwald's leaked reporting is treated so differently than barbara starr. when, with glenn greenwald, they're not designed to advanced pentagon's agenda, then we have calls for prosecution. when they are as with the barbara starr reporting, radio silence. there is a vast and growing web of secret government in this country, and it simply cannot be the case. it is not acceptable that the only things we know about it are the things the members of that secret government want us to know. because at the end of the day, it is on us. it is on all of us what our government does in our name. we'll be right back with #click3. >>> today the senate handed john boehner a loaded gun and told him he has two choices. kill his speakership, or kill his

greenwald in hong kong the publication published snowden's first bombshell on june fifth revealing that arise in a good force to hand over the phone records of millions of american citizens the following day prism was exposed the n.s.a. program that allows direct access to the otherwise secure servers of google facebook apple and other tech companies then we learned about boundless informant in an essay analytics tool that allows monitoring of surveillance programs on a country by country basis finally on june ninth snowden decided to go public and reveal themselves as the source of the leaks in an exclusive one on one with glenn greenwald within the following week it was bombshell after bombshell first telling the south china morning post that the n.s.a. had been hacking the government and civilian infrastructure of hong kong and china since one thousand nine soon after we learned about u.s. and u.k. surveillance of foreign leaders at the g twenty including russia but probably the craziest revelation is that as it turns out u.s. and u.k. governments have access to phone and internet tr

it's basically saying you're not a human being. >> we'll get to glenn greenwald in a few minutes. i want to be clear about this. a little more than 20 years ago, many, if not most gay journalists were in the closet, they were afraid to come out publicly. when one did it was an event. even four, five years ago, many television journalists felt it might damage their careers so i'm glad these people got a chance to talk about something so important to them but if you put them on back-to-back-to-back are you tilting the coverage, that's my question. >> yes. and this is another thing that this coverage reveals. what's missing often in tv newsrooms, there are plenty of gays. there are very few people of faith and very few evangelical christians who in their own beliefs would be against gay marriage. >> just to clarify, you're not saying all people of faith are against same-sex marriage. >> no, no, not at all. but i'm saying if you did a survey of any newsroom in washington, the number of people of deep faith who oppose gay marriage would be minuscule. and, therefore, you wouldn't necess

greenwald in hong kong the publication published snowden's first bombshell on june fifth revealing that verizon a good force to hand over the phone records of millions of american citizens the following day prism was exposed the n.s.a. program that allows direct access to the otherwise secure servers of google facebook apple and other tech companies then we learned about boundless informant in an essay analytics tool that allows monitoring of surveillance programs on a country by country basis finally on june ninth snowden decided to go public and reveal themselves as the source of the leaks in an exclusive one on one with glenn greenwald within the following week it was bombshell after bombshell first telling the south china morning post that the n.s.a. had been hacking the government and civilian infrastructure of hong kong and china since one thousand nine soon after we learned about u.s. and u.k. surveillance of foreign leaders at the g twenty including russia but probably the craziest revelation is that as it turns out u.s. and u.k. governments have access to phone and internet tra

greenwald as traitors. greenwald's a total phony he is anti-american he loves to radical regime and he did this because he hates america this had nothing to do with publicizing information that was alan dershowitz last night on c.n.n. a slightly softer tone from the tenant colonel ralph peters who recently suggested that snowden and manning should both receive the death penalty but to cut through some of this inflammatory rhetoric to give us the real insight on the story i'm joined now by michael ratner president of the center for constitutional rights and attorney for joining us on q. and wiki leaks michael thank you so much for coming on have it's good to be with you always so you've been closely following this case do you know anything more about the status of edward snowden at this point why do you think he's still at the airport. you know i don't know abbie i mean what's been said is that he left hong kong he's now in the transit lounge in moscow and according to what we read in wiki leaks who said he'

glenn greenwald will join us at the to which the story in an appearance that you'll only see on "morning joe." first interview since the identity of the leaker was revealed. we'll ask him questions, how he got the information? how is the white house hitting back? and what exactly was revealed? and how does that impact your personal security. we'll be talking to him about all this. glenn greenwald the man at the very center of this huge story coming up in just a few minutes on "morning joe." we'll be talking with andrea mitchell later on. >> thank you, mika. >>> coming back here at the watercooler, mike tyson with an entertainment knockoff. we'll be right back. ♪ bonjour ♪ je t'adore ♪ c'est aujourd'hui ♪ ♪ et toujours ♪ me amour ♪ how about me? [ male announcer ] here's to a life less routine. ♪ and it's un, deux, trois, quatre ♪ ♪ give me some more of that [ male announcer ] the more connected, athletic, seductive lexus rx. ♪ je t'adore, je t'adore, je t'adore ♪ ♪ ♪ s'il vous plait [ male announcer ] this is the pursuit of perfection. but, dad, you've got...

greenwald are intended to create a chilling effect for journalists and here's his response. i think that's exactly what they're designed to do look we saw this whole thing play out with james rosen a few weeks ago rosen of course was being targeted by the department of justice because he we had a source inside the military who was leaking information to him the idea there was that he was committing criminal acts and so the department of justice including attorney general eric holder were involved in this investigation where they were acting his e-mails they were active his private e-mails his phone his parents' phone we saw this happening and we saw journalists rally around you know what's strange in the greenwald case is i don't see a lot of journalists rallying behind him but other than journalists like yourself like myself there aren't as many coming out in support of greenwald the idea the notion that you would say that greenwald hates america and that's the reason he interviewed and snowden is unconscionable it's ridiculous it's outrageous that it really is a chilling i

greenwald a journalist. well he could be a journalist but was it is it is to some if you give an opinion you then come with a bias so similarly ben your work doesn't shy away from taking a stand neither does mine how do you feel about people who say that that kind of work isn't journalism well i think you have to balance the to be taking a stand we're taking a position but backing it up with other facts or rule of law is not really editorializing and i had this conversation with a number of people because people look at the content that we put out will say well clearly you're taking a stand for the constitution therefore you're editorializing no not necessarily look rule of law is the standard in this country i didn't decide it was the standard you didn't decide it was the standard when the president takes his oath of office he swears allegiance to uphold and protect what the constitution of the united states every member of congress firefighters police officers military members we all pledge this oath to th

greenwald are intended to create a chilling effect for journalists and here's his response. i think that's exactly what they're designed to do book we saw this whole thing play out with james rosen a few weeks ago rosen of course was being targeted by the department of justice because he was had a source inside the military who was leaking information to him the idea. there was that he was committing criminal acts and so the department of justice including attorney general eric holder were involved in this investigation where they were ak and his e-mails they were hacking his private e-mails his phone his parents' phone we saw this happening and we saw journalists rally around you know what's strange in the greenwald case is i don't see a lot of journalists rallying behind him other than journalists like yourself like myself there aren't as many coming out in support of greenwald the idea the notion that you would say that greenwald hates america and that's the reason he interviewed edward snowden is unconscionable it's ridiculous it's outrageous and it really is a chilling

greenwald as traitors. greenwald's a total phony he is anti-american he loves to radical regime and he did this because he hates america this had nothing to do with publicizing information that was alan dershowitz last night on c.n.n. a slightly softer tone from the tenant colonel ralph peters who recently suggested that snowden and manning should both receive the death penalty but to cut through some of this inflammatory rhetoric to give us the real insight on the story i'm joined now by michael ratner president of the center for constitutional rights and attorney for joining us on q. and wiki leaks michael thank you so much for coming on and it's good to be with you always so you've been closely following this case do you know anything more about the status of edward snowden at this point why do you think he still at the airport now i don't know abie i mean what's been said is that he left hong kong he's now in the transit lounge in moscow and according to what we read wiki leaks has said he's apparently

but i call them op ed page you would not call glenn greenwald a journalist though he could be a journalist but was is is some if you give an opinion you then come with a bias correct it isn't every question biased. what you can be all that abby is you buddy of mine yes if you did that and you do this you know this is and that is what . you've gone crazy here he turned yourself into a sort of i just i don't know how to respond to that because yes every question is buys for example every headline every headline is subjective. would you just did now was subject right so technically every question i asked was subjective right but i came with it with the best motives i never came up with a motive that my way is the highway. because of going gold's open by is some politicians and media pundits are now calling for his prosecution taking it that far i mean have you seen i would say you know i believe in free speech have you seen this kind of attack on journalism ever before or do you see that this is the worse it's been terms of crack on the whistleblowers of the obama administration etc. i mean w

lawmaker after another or so he could potentially be granted asylum meanwhile glenn greenwald their guardian reporter who broke the n.s.a. surveillance story is also feeling the heat take a look at how this case has unfolded in the media to the extent that you have aided and abetted snowden even in his current movements why shouldn't you mr green will be charged with a crime i think it's pretty extraordinary that anybody who would call themselves a journalist would publicly muse about whether or not other journalists should be charged with felonies for more on the media's coverage of edward snowden and glenn greenwald i was trying earlier by erik wemple he is the media critic at the washington post and he started by giving me his overall impressions of the media's coverage. well i think the media has taken some criticism from snowden and other people for trivializing snowden's past and sort of getting distracted but i think actually it's been a pretty good vessel for a serious debate about privacy if you know for about three weeks now all the called the op ed pages and the television airwave

. >> glenn greenwald mentioned he

greenwald of "the guardian." that's not what you're supposed to do. >> but let me just push back, jeff. i mean, there are people who

glenn greenwald, how are you? >> good, chris. thanks for having me. >> first i want to get your reaction to peter king's rhetoric in the past two days about prosecution. specifically singling you out as someone who has "a direct attack on america." i think he accused of you threatening to expose individual covert cia agents. i just want to get your response because he's been given a fair amount of air time over the last two days to attack you. he's a sitting member of congress. i understand you've been traveling. what is your response to congressman king's accusations? >> i don't think there are many people who take peter king very seriously. i also think that most americans find instinctively repulsive the idea that journalists should be arrested and prosecuted for doing what journalists are supposed to do, which is reporting on what the united states government does in the dark. that said, he is the chairman of the house homeland security committee. and the obama administration has in the recent past flirted with the idea and e

glenn greenwald referenced it about whether he should or will face charges. i want to acknowledge there is a debate on twitter that goes on online about this, even as we're speaking. here's what greenwald has treated after this morning. who needs the government to try to criminalize journalism when you have david gregory to do it. he claims to be a journalist, raising questions, which is not actually embracing any particular point of view. that's part of the tactics of the debate when lawmakers have questioned him, there's a question about his role in this, the guardian's role in all of this. it is actually part of the debate rather than going after the questioner. he could take on the issues and he had an opportunity to do that here on "meet the press." what is journalism, mike murphy,

>> i do. >> "the guardian's" glenn greenwald. thank you for being with us. when this story first broke, we heard a lot of pushback from national security people saying, well, this is nothing new, this has been going on for some time, nothing to see here, move along. now we're hearing it's gut-wrenching, that it's a threat to national security. which is it, glenn? >> it's neither of those. the reality is u.s. government officials for many decades and certainly over the last ten years has been abusing their secrecy power to shield from the american public not programs that are designed to keep america safe but to conceal their own actions from the people to whom they're supposed to be democratically accountable. what we disclosed was of great public interest, of great importance in a democracy, that the u.s. government is building this massive spying apparatus aimed at its own population. anyone who wants to say that any of these stories have harmed national security, i defy anybody to say anything we published that does that in any way. the only people who ha