of egypt. coming over or you can the military bring democracy to egypt can military bring democracy to the middle east. well it's theoretically possible someplace that some time that that. it happened but certainly that's not very likely in egypt and you can put me down as a a skeptic with regard to the rhetoric of democracy and the arab spring with regard to u.s. and western policy the problem that i see is that that has really been a cover for the the exertion of u.s. policy the interests of u.s. policy in egypt and elsewhere in the region and of the case of egypt this is nowhere better illustrated than the the term that i've been hearing in washington the last few days coups volution the idea that you know the the effort to portray what happened in the egyptian military takeover as somehow a revolution rather than a coup d'etat and the reality of course is that that this is indeed the reassertion of the military's power and influence in gyptian society and their effort to guide that society

he will create a of technocrates to try and get egypt back up on its feet, tie to get egypt back on the right path in its transition to democracy but more importantly to try to get day to day governs right on the right track. it is going to be extremely important to see what kind of government he creates in the early days of had his administration although it is an interim one, it is a very important one. >> let's quickly bring in michael o'hanlon at the brookings institution, and former ambassador to morocco mark ginsburg. michael, back in 2011 when we saw the first arab spring and the protests in egypt that ousted mubarak, there was a chant on the street the army and the people are one. now the army is being put forward as the guarantors of emerging democracy in this country. does it strike you you still have so much power in the military essentially to create regime change? >> well, you know, it's a great question although the army now says it's acting on behalf of the people. let's bear in mind these demonstrations in egypt in the last few days have frankly not only been big but amo

aid to egypt. the american law says you cannot give assistance to a country that has had their government deposed by a coup. the u.s. gives $1.30 billion a year to the egyptian military, about a quarter of the budget. it helps maintain egypt's -- have you sustain that in the current environment? how you win congressional support for having an unchanged relationship with egypt? >> senator patrick leahy is the chairman of the senate subcommittee that oversees foreign aid. he says they are going to repeat that aid now. presumably what washington wants is a pragmatic response. >> the reality of the law says you cannot obligate funds to the government. then you say it is not a coup. >> i don't know how you make that case. it felt to me like the army telling it mubarak he had to go was a coup, and this is a coup. you can put a government in power, but it is very hard for the military to make a case that you have a freestanding governor that will really pass scrutiny. >> thank you very much for joining me

egypt and elsewhere in the region and of the case of egypt this is nowhere better illustrated thembi the term that i've been hearing in washington the last few days coup volution the idea of you know the effort to portray what happened in the egyptian military takeover as somehow a revolution rather than a coup d'etat and the reality of course is that this is indeed the reassertion of the military's power and influence in gyptian society and their effort to guide that society in a direction that is going to preserve the military's interests including its very large control over parts of the egyptian economy so i mean this is to me a perfect illustration of the problems that go along with presenting the politics in the middle east in terms of some sort of march toward democracy this is really you know this is covering up the fundamental issues and problems that are primary in the region and it's not just you know the egyptian military it's elsewhere in the region you have the sunni versus shia as the primary problem and western interest in continuing to maintain their own influence in

christians throughout egypt are asking for prayer for egypt's future. chris mitchell, cairo, egypt. >> george: egypt's christians may be rejoicing, but that joy is tempered by fears of a backlash against their community. mohammed morsi's supporters are outraged that christian leaders publicly supported his removal, and they're taking their anger out on the christian community. the voice of the martyrs reports muslim extremists in southern egypt burned dozens of christian homes and destroyed a church. in other parts of the country, at least three churches have been burned. and at least 11 believers have been killed. one of those killed was a coptic christian priest. 39-year-old father mina abud was shot in the head at an outdoor market. it happened in the town of al-arish, near the gaza border. he was killed after muslim brotherhood criticized the new coptic pope for backing the removal of morsi. in the past, egyptian christians have stayed under the radar, not participating in political or social movements for fear of reprisals. >> wendy: samuel toddros

egypt that evolution as well. that it can go to mass because it was here as will. still strong so it we. made our getaways and you're going with the people of egypt with their own government i didn't but some of you have called your supporters to come out to the streets and fight even if it leads to bloodshed more people died in recent events than in the whole year under morsi. this is entirely wrong entirely. well if we represent the egyptian people in the south of the city and we're defending our democratic choice and. second if we're doing it through peaceful means only i underline and peaceful means only not at all for we're not at threatening anyone and we don't tolerate threats to criminals that stage this kind are responsible for all the blood spilled on the streets for disrespecting the people as we always are and foremost accusing you know just trying to peacefully defend. the gyptian revolution has been peacefully and since day one the laws of no no one is threatening anyone however they was responsible

what exactly does seem as if a minute is under way i mean egypt disappointed. to be egyptian president mohamed morsi as well as person of the muslim brotherhood and now we are hearing that the state television and the state media and state newspaper i think the same thing now communication with president morsi has been kept the army has a right to. barriers around the barracks way he said to be working we also been told that an international travel ban has been imposed on morsi and have a high profile muslim brotherhood supporters we are however receiving conflicting reports as to whether or not he is under house arrest his spokesperson has denied this the state television is now in the hands of the army as well as the republican guard no word from morsi from avonlea the compassionate traits he gave last night which is causing many here to ask the question where is he exactly there has been an update on his facebook page in which iterates if you reject the army's ultimatum and at the same time he calls for a consensus government and a consensus prime minister t

hello and welcome to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle egypt on the brink a year after becoming president mohamed morsi and his democratically elected muslim brotherhood face massive protests and social upheaval as one revolution ended in another started opposition figures have asked the military to step in to restore order if the military again becomes the key power broker in egypt what does this mean for democracy in the arab muslim world. to tensions in egypt i'm joined by brian jones in new york he is a marine corps vet and a military and defense writer for business insider and in london we cross the car line rumi she is a research councils u.k. global uncertainties leadership fellow you're right folks cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it carolina fine go to you first here it looks like the military is performing a coup in egypt is that good for anybody. well i don't know if it's a coup as yet i think various options still remain open as to. whether there might be people prepared to work with

it's still early in cairo egypt. it's going to be regulatory in understanding the speech last night. >> he'll be installed as interim president. what do we know about this man? >> not a lot. there's speculation about his background. he's someone who was appointed by mubarak. again, as with everything else in the process, more questions than answers. >> what do you make of the reaction from the international community? let's start off with you. >> i think the u.s., as you mentioned, the statements from barack obama last night has been conscious and restrained, which many people think is quite smart in reaction to the fluid nature of events right now. the international community is waiting to see. this is something unprecedented. this is something very different. a new permeation. >> unprecedented. egypt's revolution. you couldn't call it democracy as those in the west would know it. what we have seen is an effective military coup. we have seen the removal of a democratically elected president after only a year because

is that egypt's future? if you're going to quote from that letter from jefferson. >> i didn't close everything. i quoted what i wanted and what i wanted was not that. i didn't talk about blood at all but i talked-about the importance of resisting tyranny. this was the main thing i took from thomas jefferson. no, i don't think we will send hopefully into what syria is like. there is no state, there's nothing, don't forget egypt has the most influential army in the region. it is culturally the most influential country, geostrategic lee it is the most important for different countries's interests, and secondly i don't think -- the terrorists or whoever you want to call the mark on minority in egypt. don't forget we have ninety million in case you get, every ten months we have a new million. this is it. this is the truth. you cannot compare, and hopefully we will not get to is that. we will have violence definitely, there are people out in the streets, but the egyptian serve seen worse crises. in 1997 there was

of egypt right now. in cairo, zan dree alexandria a elsewhere. the major paper of egypt, apparently under the influence of the egyptian military right now, saying morsi is no longer president. they've also announced very soon we will be getting a statement from opposition leaders. including the former head of the international atomic energy agency. a fierce opponent of morsi. they'll be issuing what is being described as a roadmap in the post-morsi era. let's bring in ben wedeman right now. he's covering this story. he knows egypt very, very well. he's on the streets over there. he's over -- he's right near a pro-morsi demonstration. ben, if this report is accurate, that the egyptian military says morsi is no longer the president of egypt, there will be fierce anger from those people right near you. >> we, i'm afraid there will be, wolf. i spoke with one senior member of the muslim brotherhood here. i asked him for his reaction to the news or to the -- at that point it was just the belief that mohamed mo

we look forward to their effective on the situation in egypt and the ramifications for egypt and the united states. the situation in egypt has tremendous implications for the united states. our response must be carefully calibrated. at the same time, support u.s. national security interest in the region. these two goals are, in my view, not at odds with one another. they do require a complex policy response that allows us to advocate for much-needed democratic reforms while also ensuring our own security needs. at the end of the day, our policy and our laws must be nuanced enough to allow for a response that reflects our interests. it is my view that terminating u.s. assistance at this time could provoke a further crisis in egypt that would not be to our benefit. having said that, the future of our relationship with egypt will be determined by our actions in the coming weeks. whether we will have a stable and willing partner in crucial matters of security, combating terrorism, trafficking of weapons and people, support for peace in the middle east. lternatively, we can stand aside du

when we look at egypt, we know that egypt is perhaps the most important arab country. it is always one that affects the rest of the region. politically, culturally it has been a trendsetter. when we look at the events of the arab awakening, they might have begun in tunisia but it was the events of career square which captured the imagination of the world. whichcareetahrir square captured the imagination of the world. it is an unsettling situation, to say the least. at a minimum, we have seen unelected leader removed, but i think when we look at the selected leader that was removed, we have to understand that the intervention by the military is an intervention that was very much backed by a very large segment of the egyptian population. a critical mass of egyptians feel that this leadership under president morsi and the muslim brotherhood was a leadership that was not addressing egypt's problems. it was more concerned with control than it was with governance. while one can dispute the actual numbers that were on the petitions and one can question how many will be on the

the army is also a key economic factor in egypt. whether it is tourism, construction, or heavy industry, the army is involved in every level. as the largest employer, that gives the army chiefs huge power. it was president mohamed morsi appointed him to his post. but he has now distanced himself from the president warning that he will not allow egypt to be plunged into what he called "a dark tunnel." >> we are happy to have our middle east expert. we have breaking news coming in, miguel, that mohamed morsi can no longer be president according to the military in a state run newspaper. is this unexpected development? >> in a way, it is. they made it very clear that the ultimatum set has run out. four hours after the ultimatum has ended, now there is a real coup d'État in egypt. they are seizing power from the democratically elected president and this is a major landmark in contemporary egyptian history. it is the first democratically elect a president being toppled by the military after just one year and power. >> you would say this

egypt. we are defending the revolutionary cause presidency in egypt is an institutional that was a stamp list by the will of the people of the revolution today's situation is not just the president's problem. it is a violation of the people's will the constitution that the people voted for and it goes against the lawfully elected president the president all these institutions have been because of the coup this cannot be justified the egyptian people will just be observing. the coup shouldn't think. and they succeeded against the will of the people and this will never happen. now after the twenty fifth of january. people on gots with the help. of the people leaders. myths what the bloody regime. is so you're saying you're not hiding but it was so hard to arrange an interview with you there was so much secrecy around it what your saying so does it mean that you can be seen in the streets every day with your supporters. yes of course. we are square with him on the streets of the revolution that

so now we can't even give egypt money? (laughter) throwing money at the problem has long been the backbone of america's foreign policy. (laughter) (applause) it's not good news. this is not good news. that we are prevented from our own laws from giving strategically allies any sorpt of coup aid. >> oh, god, no, no, no, no, no. no, no! i clearly said coup aid, not cool aid, are you paying for that wall. so it looks like-- it looks like we have a problem here. because we want to keep giving egypt money. but you can't really deny that this was a coup, right? >> the legal determination that a coup happened would require a suspension or cuttoff in all nonhumanitarian assistant dance to egypt including its 1.3 billion in fmf is that correct? >> well, matt, because we're nots there, we haven't made that determination. >> i know, but that determination would trigger a cuttoff or suspension of the assistance is that correct? >> again, i don't want to be analyzing what the legal options are here. that is being closely looked at. >>

back to egypt as well. major developments happening in egypt. stay with us. and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. ♪ [ male announcer ] some things are designed to draw crowds. ♪ ♪ others are designed to leave them behind. ♪ the all-new 2014 lexus is. it's your move. bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. here's your wake up call. [ male a

egypt. we are defending the revolutionary cause presidency in egypt is an institutional there was a stamp list by the will of the people of the revolution today's situation is not just the president's problem. it is a violation of the people's will the constitution that the people voted for and it goes against the lawfully elected president the president all these institutions have been because of the coup this cannot be justified the egyptian people can't just be observers those who organized the coup shouldn't think. and they succeeded against the will of the people and this will never happen. after the twenty fifth of january. one got with the help of a lot about the hands of the people. not some it's like a bloody regime. so you're saying you're not hiding but it was so hard to arrange an interview with you there was so much secrecy around it what your saying so does it mean that you can be seen in the streets every day with your supporters. yes of course. we're square with i'm on the st

that was the real problem in egypt. when morsi got elected with barely 51% of the vote, he acted like a dictator. as a result, there were no checks and balances within a system that enabled his opponents to feel they had a stake in the success of the new revolution that took place. that's going to be the key here as it is across the region where we're seeing the same saga plague out where there had been revolutions and where there had been inadequate civil institutions to put a check on the grab for power that occurred at the ballot box. >> that's an excellent point, ambassador. i always find myself when one party takes over from it the other party in terms of the oval office in this country, i just look around and say, wow, we can do that nonviolently, even though a lot of people are unhappy, millions of people unhappy. we make those changes nonviolently. that's hard to do when you don't have a long tradition of democracy. richard, what do you think about that question of might the military actually not abdicate and ma

, restoring law and order in egypt, trying to bring back stability in egypt in again, and in sinai in particular. >> many experts say the muslim brotherhood should be involved in forming a new government and say putting faith in egypt's military is not a long-term answer sense military don't tend to be inclusive and that was the brotherhood's problem. >> let's get more now on what the coup could mean for our diplomatic ties with egypt. ned walker, former u.s. ambassador to egypt, israel, and the united arab emirates. the lesson here in the finer point office diplomacy. how this president doing. >> pretty well so far. he hasn't come out strongly or in a legal way to condemn the takeover of the morsi government. he recognizes the stakes are very high for the united states, and for egypt. but he also has to have been looking at all those pictures of the thousands of million0s of people sitting on the street and wonder, do we want to get on the wrong side of the egyptian people? that's what it would appear to be if we came out strongly saying that this was a, quote un-unquote coup and tha

to cross-talk the chaos in egypt i'm joined by cynthia schneider in washington she is a professor at georgetown university and a senior nonresident fellow with the brookings institution we also have jeffrey ingersoll in new york he is a defense reporter with business insider and in london we crossed to so you to lisa he's a political analyst and writer all right crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much appreciate it cynthia franco to you first in washington is egypt in a process of self-destruction after this coup. no not at all but i can understand why you would say that i find that coverage of the events which by the way i would call the continuing revolution rather than a coup baffling to me i find so many people here who have actually never even heard of the grass roots use lead movement from a road which is the reason that millions and millions and millions of people egyptians came out into the streets last sunday to protest the rule of mohamed morsi but would you agree this was a king would you agree to a coup military coup no i woul

there is a security crisis in egypt. they need to get the police back in the streets and there is also an economic crisis and he needs to turn around this economy and really give it a jump start to people feel the benefits quickly. >> and in all likelihood he is really not going to be the one to do t he is really a place holder by all accounts until there are elections speaking of which the timetable is all important here, the last time the military stepped in, hosni mubarak went out and they hung around way too long and way too gong to get to elections. what sense of urgency is there they will move to an election process in the very near future and if they're arresting all the muslim brotherhood where is the inclusiveness. >> that's exactly right. starting with the muslim brotherhood they're going to have to be inclusive eventually. the muslim brotherhood still is a significant part of society. you cannot marginalize a section of society. you have to be inclusive. there is going to be have to be a dialog between the two

what is egypt today? is it egypt or is it just part of islam? >> well, if you asked the people here right now, they are reclaiming egypt. and it is not just the egypt of a specific group. the group that saw history began with islam 1,400 years ago. there were slogans in this square uniting muslims and christians. there have been christians in this country going back to the earliest days of christianity. so this is an -- obviously an ancient culture. but for a period, it was, as you said, ruled by one vision, ruled by one group that saw history beginning with islam and that was the correct way to lead society and that, yes, there could be tolerance toward other communities but not genuine respect. >> i see. >> thank you so much, richard engel, you're the greatest reporter in the world and thank you for coming to us from cairo the night of this incredible event. and thank you, ashraf kalili thank you for your great reports on the muslim brotherhood and how they're taking this. >>> and when we return, we're going to get reaction from the white hous

this was not the case in egypt two years ago. this is a real cause for concern looking ahead to the short to medium-term. >> you you have said that president morsi has failed ordinary people. in many cases, they have gotten worse. given that situation, should he have been allowed to cling on? best ofs not the presidents, but his argument would be that he had the judiciary, the media, the military stacked against him and of course a divided opposition. this would be along the lines of reforms that he had promised before he came into power. why the a reason egyptians elected a four-year term presidency. at least two and a half years. it is up to him as elected president to resign. this is supposed to be a democracy. i think those institutional imbalances are at the core of the kind of chaos that we will see unfold in egypt. >> what if the muslim brotherhood is not participate in the new political system? >> that is an excellent question. this is a vengeful grumpy response the day after their man was ousted from power. they are all

law means for aid to zript egypt. the u.s. will stand with the egyptian people as democracy proceeds. so a fairly mildly worded statement considering the events that have transpired on the grounds in egypt, but i think it's interesting he is sending a message to the army that president morsi should not be arrested or his supporters. if the president is making this statement publicly through the media, then he is obviously having his people make it strongly on the phone to their counterparts in egypt. >> let's bring you a reminder of the headlines on the top story of the coup in egypt. president morsi has been deposed and the constitution has been suspended ahead of the constitutional court. mansour has been declared the interim leader. muslim brotherhood says authority of holding the deposed president and two leaders of the party. morsi has called the military's action says the law must be respected. and proponents -- opponents of has been iy celebrating. senior political analyst joins us now here in the studio. one of the key

egypt gave us the ayman al-zawahiri, so egypt is no stranger to extremism. there's a risk that if we disempower the muslim brotherhood from its four year term -- and to be fair to the brotherhood they have upheld the treaty with israel, they have been on balanced terms with the united states and they should be allowed to see out their four year term and if they fail, let them fail at the ballot box. >> rose: why do you think there are so many people in the streets? >> there are real issues as to why people are in the streets, including fuel shortages, including -- >> rose: islamic protests, do you think? >> to some extent. and at another level it's the fact that the brotherhood has isolated the opposition and the opposition hasn't been playing ball the way it should be. professor is ajami is right that they've failed at the boston red sox box on five different occasion and there is a feeling of sour grapes but the way to bring down an elected government isn't through mob violence at the streets but contest them at the next election. >> rose: these events go

egypt's military has staged a coup. the top jen said about 3 1/2 hours ago that morsi had been removed from power. let's get a live update now from jennifer griffin at the pent gone. so put this military coup in context for us. how is it different from what we see usually? >> this will put lawmakers and u.s. officials in a bind because u.s. law states that aid to egypt will have to be reconsidered and possibly cut off if a government -- elected government is removed by a coup. we've already heard patrick leahy has ordered that 1$1.3 billion to egypt be reviewed. what's different about this coup is that the military announced that president morsi was no longer the elected representative of the people. but it's not clear that morsi is under arrest. he was not killed by the military. it was a bloodless coup. and a transitional government was put into place of technocrats and the head of the constitutional court. so it's not as though a general took over. we've lettered heard the saudi arabian king welcome the new governmen

. >> we would like to see the new people in egypt restoring law and order in egypt, trying to bring back stability. >> palestinian opinion is divided. some sympathize with the opposition, while others saw an ally in morsi. >> i'm very upset for him. i'm truly sad because he stood with the palestinians. he stood firm with us, for the sick haitians, the products, the diesel and gas moving across borders. >> a government is not the place for islamists. islamist roots have always been isolated or independent. to rule a country and deal with politics is too difficult for them. >> most middle eastern governments are withholding official comment on the latest developments in egypt. >> for some analysis, we have a representative from the institute of international security affairs with us. egypt has just lost a democratically elected prime minister or president to a popular military coup. is this a step forward or a step backward? >> it might be both. on the one hand, morsi has been democratically elected and the muslim brotherhood has won the parliamentary elections. on the other hand, it has t

while egypt is not on the agenda, the u.s. added a permanent representative and told reporters it is an issue we are watching. stephen joins us live. not too much was said about egypt. >> that is right. questions did not come until halfway through the press conference. rosemary dicarlo, president of the security council, said that members were watching with concern and it would continue to watch escalating tensions in egypt. as she mentioned, it is not on the agenda this month. there are quarterly consultations on the middle east peace process. egypt will be likely to come up. she is a u.s. diplomat and did reaffirm support for democracy, not one side or the other. >> demonstrators criticized the u.s. ambassador to egypt. she sided with president morsi. any comment on that? >> patterson and dicarlo are old colleagues. dicarlo said that patterson has been standing by the u.s. line, appealing for the right of protesters to demonstrate. she said any accusations of bias were ill-founded. >> i want to have you and nathan both weigh

the army is also a key economic factor in egypt. whether it is tourism, construction, or heavy industry, the army is involved in every level. as the largest employer, that gives the army chiefs huge power. it was president mohamed morsi appointed him to his post. but he has now distanced himself from the president warning that he will not allow egypt to be plunged into what he called "a dark tunnel." >> we are happy to have our middle east expert. we have breaking news coming in, miguel, that mohamed morsi can no longer be president according to the military in a state run newspaper. is this unexpected development? >> in a way, it is. they made it very clear that the ultimatum set has run out. four hours after the ultimatum has ended, now there is a real coup d'État in egypt. they are seizing power from the democratically elected president and this is a major landmark in contemporary egyptian history. it is the first democratically elect a president being toppled by the military after just one year and power. >> you would say this

maintaining egypt? pat buchanan, keep it short. >> the best course of action would be to maintain military assistance for a while as we phase it out and the isrealis job -- >> phase it out, why? >> the isrealis are maintaining we phase it out because the arab spring is turning into the arab war of all against all. >> maintaining our support, which is far less than other countries in that region are giving is very important. secondly, this president administration has gotten criticism for standing on the sideline too much when it comes to developments in the middle east. i believe the military would have acted in what i am calling a people's cue, with or without any kind of blessing from the white house. this was not an obama-led takeover. >> by no means. >> helps provide an economic lifeline to giving this money and eventually help them stave off a civil war. that's part of the reason that brought this overthrow. the economy isn't doing well. >> several weeks ago, i predicted the egyptian economy was go

aid to egypt. take a look at some of what happened at the state department earlier today. >> do you concede the reputation is thereby department -- tarnished? to see them as unique situations, therefore you do not have to do make and it -- a determination about whether it is a coup. the military in any other country could decide they will go ahead with removing a legitimately elected president because there is no longer a fear the united states will couple military and economic aid. >> i refute the notion this was a loophole. it was not. it was reviewed by our lawyers and determined that we did not need to make a decision or determination about whether or not this was a coup. the second piece i would convey is that i do not think it would come as a surprise to anyone that our own national security interests related to regional stability, the voices of millions of people are all factors. every scenario is different. we are continuing to review. we do not anticipate we are going to make an evaluation

egypt that evolution has well. he's can go to mass because it was here as we'll. do you still strong so what. you're going to sell the people of egypt over to their own government i didn't but some humor of called your supporters to come out this streets and fight even if it leads to bloodshed more people died in recent events than in the whole year under morsi. this is entirely wrong i think charlie. we represent the egyptian people. and we are defending our democratic choice and our votes and secondly we are doing it through peaceful means only and aligning peaceful means only not at all for we are not at threatening anyone and we don't tolerate threats to criminals that stage this kind are responsible for all the blood spilled on the streets full disrespecting the people as we always are and foremost accusing those that are just trying to peacefully defend their votes however the. revolution has been peacefully and since day one the laws of no no one is threatening and i'm one. of the ones responsible for the bl

there's no other way for egypt. if they go through the way of violence and confrontation, it will only be for them to come back. >> that doesn't bear thinking about, that path toward violence. great talking to you, thanks very much for being here in the studio. we will keep you updated on egypt but for the moment let's turn to other news. wildfires in the u.s. state of arizona still burning after fire crews failed to bring them under control. 19 firefighters were killed battling the flames. an investigation has been launched into what's being called the worst wildfire tragedy in 80 years. strong winds have spread the blaze, at least 3,400 heck tears of land have been -- hectares of land have been destroyed. we have more from arizona. >> people here in prescott, arizona, continue to file past a makeshift memorial for the 19 firefighters who lost their lives battling a mountain fire on sunday. they're leaving gifts and offerings, some handwritten signs, some flowers, some crosses and american flags. meanwhile, the fir

egypt's top muslim cleric and coptic pope reportedly met with egypt's army chief earlier today. violence is escalating on the streets in the meantime. the egyptian health ministry said 16 people were killed and another 200 injured their cairo university tuesday when gunmen attacked a pro-morsi rally. we're joined by democracy now! correspondent sharif abdel kouddous from cairo. what is happening? >> we are almost as zero hour, what could be the most pivotal moment in egypt since this began. the deadline by the army is due to expire in a couple of hours from this broadcast. in itsy originally said statement the political forces, if they could not meet with a call be people's demands, they would issue their own roadmap. as you mentioned, mohamed morsi i had last night did a late- night address, a very defiant speech or he rejected those he washe repeatedly said the legitimate president. word legitimate many times. word legitimacy many times. even with so far as to say he was willing to die to protect his intimacy. he reiterated only a call for dialogue, but it has been rejected fo

this is the largest gathering in the history of egypt. never before so many people -- old people, young people, children, old woman, wives, kids, everybody is on the streets, you know. the crowds today are even higher than revolution when president mubarak was stopped as you know. you know that this movement has gathered 22 million signatures to remove morsi and the muslim brotherhood from egypt. the amount of people on the streets today are even higher than these numbers, you know. so the feeling here in cairo is that morsi is is gone. the muslim brotherhood's regime is gone. we are waiting for the president to leave in peace in order to avoid any repercussions in the country as some of these fellows are retired terrorists and jihaddists there are repercussions in case they don't want him, you know. >> charlie: do you think he will leave? >> he has no choice. you can only rewind the movie with mubarak, you know. he has no choice. the amount of people in the streets today are two times or three times the amount of people who toppled mubar

keep in mind in egypt, it is not egypt. it is the military. the egypt military. they have been our friends. they have been israel's friends for years and years and years. since 1979. and if we turn our backs on the military now, there are others who would love to fill that vacuum. should they have f-16's, i'm glad they have f-16's. they ought to have more f-16's, and some have been purchased and not delivered yet. they should be delivered. but if it's not going to be f-16's, if we should pass an amendment like this, you're going to find yourself with a bunch of mig-29's coming over from russia instead of our f-16's. if this were 10 years ago, if this were 15 years ago, i might agree with my friend from kentucky, but that was before we realized the threats that we have in the middle east. we have some friends in the middle east. we have israel, we have jordan. we have kuwait, u.a.e., qatar, saudi arabia. if that group of friends in the middle east breaks up, what can happen to us here in america? our intelligence has said, and it's unclassified since 2007, that ir

the in egypt making a dramatic change today. mohamed morsi the president of egypt deposed by the egyptian army. we'll continue to watch developments on that sorry. first, let's go back to the trial of george zimmerman, the second degree murder trial taking place in sanford, pl. we're listening to a prosecution expert being questioned by the defense and he is a forensics expert. let's go back analyst. >> and looking at the back here, there's no cuttings and markings. okay. nothing here that. >> no cuttings that i took from the back. >> great. okay. >> and i do want to talk with you though briefly about george zimmerman's outside jacket, the orangish red jacket. >> yes. >> without going through all of the samples that were george zimmerman, were there any spots on that outside shirt that were or could have been trayvon martin's? >> on the original jacket? >> yes. >> and let's do this one more time. you can point that out. the wit may step down. thank you, judge. let's just have you focus on the stain or stains that were or could h

we begin with the crises in egypt. all day long the world has watched as this life or death drama unfolded, a nation so key to the united states hanging in the balance. you're looking live at tahrir square, the heart of the uprising. it is filled with celebrations tonight now that the president has been ousted, but there is also fear that there will be bloodshed. the president's supporters will not give in easily. they are vowing revenge. the images of this day tell the story. the people of egypt demanding their president step aside. the military stepping in, weapons drawn. and here is the very latest. the egyptian military is effectively in control. the u.s. state department is now urging all americans to leave egypt. we will explore what all this means to the u.s. which relies so heavily on egypt to bring stability to such a dangerous region. our team is spanned out across the globe, but our coverage of this crises in egypt begins with abc's alex marquardt in the center of it all in cairo. >> reporter: you can hear t

because this unrest is actually not confined to egypt or issues around egypt is actually a manifestation of protests against what i've been fast becoming universal features of the global world war then its current crisis phase that of poland mass unemployment rising rampant inflation and police move brutality to try and keep a lid on all of this but that just to get it clear that. despite your talk about western influence here this is a genuine grassroots revolution in effect in that economies kalat. there is genuine dissent about the islamic influence there and with the thousands and thousands of people we're seeing now in tahrir square this is coming from the people isn't it surely absolutely this is a genuine grassroots movement and what i'm saying is that there whatever kind of resolution emerges in response to this uprising in the next few days on the next few hours that will be some kind of attempt to divide the movement to try and buy off some elements of the movement and so on but that is because the west though quite keen to see that is a lot of influence the muslim brotherhood

this is the strongest political movement in egypt. they believe that after 80 years in the wilderness they have been elected. if they were now displaced by a political tear c military coup, they're not going to go home and be quiet. there are limited u.s. options to try to do the right thing. >> reporter: that's hard to know how to talk about right now with the immense out pouring on the streets. obviously the president of the united states has been in touch with president morsi. a leading spokesman for the muslim brotherhood, we've spoken to him many times before and he's right there. jihad can you hear me? >> i can. >> reporter: can you tell me what you're doing? what the military is doing? will you describe what you're seeing now? >> there's military tanks and armored vehicles from nearby storage facilities coming from the northern entrance and southern entrance. the protesters and demonstrators swept through the front lines and stood in front of the tanks. the military personnel fired a few warning shots in the air. that had more