. it continues the committee's investigation into the irs's inappropriate treatment of groups applying for tax-exempt status. it is now our understanding that some of those groups for 501(c)(3)'s groups for whom they received a text direction if you give and the vast majority were 501(c)(4)'s groups for whom he did not receive a tax deduction for your contribution but you do not pay the same corporate taxes on that income. this scandal first came to light when a planted question directed at lois lerner's request at the american bar association in may 10. prior to the planting of that question designed to obstruct the truth about targeting and break the news to a sympathetic audience friday afternoon this committee had worked with our inspector general, the treasury for more than 10 months. multiple committees in the house of representatives had wanted answers, had sought answers and were waiting on those answers. in response to the planted question lois lerner blamed the inappropriate irs activities of lying people in cincinnati. the irs hoped, we believe the irs hoped that this would

that the irs was about to send us documents last week. with information related to category of progressive or left leaning groups that may have received they determined it wasser. admissible to share the information with our committee. because it related to cat dwoirs that rather than specifically identifiable taxpayers. i want to read exactly what he said yesterday under oath and get your response. he -- and i quote, we were imminently going to produce a document in an unredacted form that would indicate that identity of a grouping of entities that we felt were similar in a kind of scope as tea party. in terms of the grouping so it wouldn't be able -- you wouldn't be able to identify a particular taxpayer because a grouping was so broad. and he, meaning you, mr. george, reached out when he learned that we were about to produce this information and express concern and indicated a disagreement without internal expert whether this was 6103 protected or not. mr. george, is that true? >> -- >> did you personally contact mr. werfel's office? >> yes, i did. and i -- can i explain why

you'd have your finance, your i.t., you'd have facilities, the irs had 800 facilities around the country, your hr and your security. we had a security mission assurance area and procurement, a bunch of other things. and so this side of the house had, supported the other side of the house. and what was over here? well, you had criminal investigations. those are the guys that got al capone. criminal investigators at the irs are second to none as investigators if you're in the financial arena. and they're brought in to almost any major fbi investigation that involves finance. it's not only tax work. the work, marion jones, barry bonds, those were irs matters because of flow of funds. the irs has very broad authority in this area. what happens is you get referrals from the other elements of the agency or from the public, and the investigators take a look at it, and if it merits criminal prosecution, it goes into the department of justice. as with some of the, some of the work in the abusive shelters that i already mentioned. so that's a key unit of the irs. you have another piece cal

franchise asking what this meant on the fourth of july. >> thank you. i would point out the irs tax system is an honor system. at least the irs uses $10 million a year to enforce the honor system. the claim that the administration has been starved has no basis. in fact, the hhs used $8 billion to create out of thin air a bonus program for the medicare advantage, to postpone the cuts before the election. i wonder if they would like to have that $8 billion back now that they are claiming they don't have the ability to implement. >> can i add on to that? >> sure. with respect to the first question about the attack system being an honor system, certainly some parts are covered by reporting but many parts are not. and i would remind you that congress repeal the 1099 requirement that is supposed to take the small businesses away off the honor system with respect to the reporting purchases of goods of more than $600. and they projected the loss, $22 billion of the revenue by putting businesses on the honor system. the tax gap in the united states in 2006 was estimated to be $385 billion of

that there is the irs, the department of labor, the health health and human services department to implement the law. i think that we be a lot of good things for them and continue to fight the law despite the fact that there is a supreme court that upheld most of it and democrats kept the senate and white house in the november elections. they can republicans feel that the health law is not good for america or jobs. but they are very devoted to this, not only in these standalone messages, but as we work towards the continuing resolutions beyond september 30. including the debt ceiling on the health care law every front that they had. >> host: we thank mary agnes carey, libby casey and jay hancock and sarah varney for joining us. let's take the next call. >> caller: good morning and thank you. there is a lot of information in regards to taking advantage of this. will this be dissolved and i guess that my confusion is will this continue? >> guest: medicare advantage of reimbursements, the medicare advantage plans to cover seniors is being reduced overtime. they are trying to eat allie

the irs. people from ordinary normal backgrounds all over the country, they just want to get involved, but they feel like they can't. >> host: we have michael, an independent caller from north carolina the argument is that most seem that the direction that the country you want to go in is not the right direction. i don't think that that is the direction the country wants to go. some of the things that you're talking about is just totally to the left. the country is moving to the left. the supreme court, the president, and now you look at the house of representatives. republicans. look at the president. he said obamacare may do more to her than to help. which direction you want the country to go. >> host: we believe that they are. >> guest: here is my response. one of the great things about what we do, which makes us different than the other institutions in washington dc is that i cannot tell you what to believe. i do not tell you what direction our country should go in many journalists spend all of their time telling you what to believe and why you should believe it. i just expose the

through the irs then they will take other steps to collect that money. >> you should know if you don't pay it is not a criminal offense. no jail time you cannot be prosecuted. but they can come with the worst that can happen is they can garnish your paycheck in the future if you owe the penalty but it will be interesting to see how much information the irs has to enforce. it has a huge role not only charged with enforcing it but they verify your income that you are eligible so they will have a lot of information but that enforcement aspect is one that nobody is concentrating on now in the white house doesn't want them to. >> with this tax preparation companies are very interested to say we will make this part of the process and those people are not high income at all. working-class family in the idea we will help you figure out what the subsidy will be or how to apply that proactively to have a lower premium. so the people are looking there will be asked to talk about the health insurance with their tax preparers. >> host: we have a and uninsured caller. >> caller: i have been do

. that's not the direction the conference is going, doing away with the irs doing away with the income tax because again i believe that punishes individuals hard work. and then finally there are a lot of american businesses that do business overseas, and they are punished bring their business, bringing the profits back year from a tech standpoint. we don't think that's appropriate either. so significant reform positive business taxes individual taxes and making it so that profits can come back here to create jobs. were working on the. under chairman camp, chairman of the ways and means committee of the house ought to hopefully warm the hearts of the. chairman baucus as a democrat, are working together to try to make certain that the entire congress can move forward on tax reform. >> host: republican caller in scranton, pennsylvania. william, high. >> caller: thank you for your time this morning. my question representative price, is regarding the state exchanges. i live in pennsylvania where we did not open up the exchanges. my question would be to part. i do understand that it is the feder

you all of a sudden just stop paying your taxes and if the irs were to come after you you would say well i believe our tax system is broken and hence i have stopped spinning. that is however the situation we have with our immigration system. it is broken in everyone acknowledges that. let's fix fix it but simply bece of the fact that it's broken suddenly all of these people have a claim to be here because they just want to, because they aspire to be american. i have a number of other disagreements with it but i will for you to my article. i think the title tells you how i feel about this issue. >> how do you explain the chinese immigrants who come here presumably and immediately join and vote for a liberal democrat? some of our most progressive politicians are here -- [laughter] >> i would say a few things. i am actually -- i am not convinced that people who escaped tyranny from china come here and immediately start voting for liberal democrats. some of them probably do when they become citizens that i haven't seen enough studies that say that these folks, the anti-communist folks i

carolina. he'll discuss the role of the irs in targeting political groups and implementing the affordable care act. we'll discuss what is in the health care law for the self-employed. our guest will be katie with the national association of the self-employed. washington journal is live on c-span every dayed at 7:00 a.m. eastern. interestingly that the korean war would help the south korean unify themselves in a way that was not there before. when this is the communist came down and a lot of the south koreas turn against the communists. and that sort of solidified, i think. a sense of national cohetion and identity. i think having waited it's very possible that the south probably would have -- it's possible it would have disconsistent grated on the own. >> sixty years after the north korea troopses cross the parallel. they look at the war that never really ended sunday night at 9:00 on after words. part of booktv this weekend on c span two. >>> the u.s. postal service lost over $16 billion last year. postmaster urged congress allow the elimination of saturday deliveries to save costs. and

cost a $25,000 fine. here's a tax form that the irs requires under penalties of perjury, representations under penalties of perjury, a criminal act, and yet you seem like you're very cavalier about in this. this risk, in this different way that individuals have of interacting with the system. yeah. they're more on their own. i yield back. >> thank you. mr. blumenauer's recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it's been interesting sort of, i tried to distance myself for a moment as i've listened to the back and forth and wondering what this would look like from a normal person from a distance. this controversial decision is controversial because people claim it's controversial. the notion somehow that we take 5% of the businesses who represent 1% of american employment and there's a year delay is not earth shattering. this is not something, you know, i would think as my friends have tried on a piecemeal basis, i notice my good friend, the chairman, couldn't even reference exactly how many times they've tried to repeal it. that somehow a small portion of the bill being del

than it would be for a whole body. to put a figure should the irs audit, the irs will not audit you. and beyond the grave. >> host: is there a shortage of dead bodies? >> guest: yes and no. people depending on where you live, if you live somewhere near stanford, harvard, they love to donate to those schools, i am going to harvard, i always thought people who won the body programs had teachers made up that said i am going to harvard medical school. it is funny there could be two medical schools close by, there is due and another smaller college, it doesn't have the same prestige, quietly giving their surplus. there are regional surplus deficits, some place have plenty of bodies and others are always scrambling to get more. >> host: in "stiff: the curious lives of human cadavers" you write it makes little sense to try to control what happens to your remains when you are no longer around to reap the joys of benefits of that control. people who make the leverett requests concerning disposition are probably, a concept of not existing. >> guest: that is the number one reason in my experie

we saw a rather stunning news that the irs employees union, the men and women charged with enforcing obamacare are asking not to be made subject to obamacare. the union leaders have sent to the union members draft letters to send members of this body saying that we do not want to be subject to obamacare likewise and their staff to obamacare. i'm not aware of a single senate office that is not deeply concerned about that that isn't facing the prospect of staff quitting the congressional offices because of the harm of obamacare so significant and there's been many panic discussions among democrats and republicans about what to do about subjecting members and their staff and my second question is what does it say to you that the union is asking let us out of obamacare and the members and the staff are deeply concerned about the harm obamacare is going to do to them. >> they were part of the union and don't want subject of the same provisions they would be enforcing. but it also tells me on the bigger picture is that above all it creates uncertainty and that is why we see so mu

does not have the power to have answer about to the irs, to i.c.e., to the area of holder with the ap. all of these areas that we can't seem to get answers to. and yet they proceed to take a racial issue in the united states and make this where we have over a hundred million people that are brought into the united states, and yet we have a problem with them going after people who want to use their first right to speech. >> host: conan, thanks for the call. you saw just a moment ago senator bernie sanders, and there's senator carl levin. these pictures at 6:10 eastern time. you also saw massachusetts senator mo cow an who's last day is tonight. senator jay rockefeller and senator patty murray, senator casey of pennsylvania all walking in for the session that is still happening at the hour. gary is joining us, independence, missouri. hometown of harry truman. go ahead, gary. >> caller: hello, thanks for taking my call. i think the filibuster is a good thing. the thing that i hope that they do is they don't let these people, they have to be there when they filibuster. i heard that they c

volunteering, that data bears that out. .. >> in recent testimony before the house byes and means committee, acting irs commissioner daniel we are femme said his -- werfel said groups were targeted for extra scrutin

difficult to put a figure actually on it. should the irs audit -- well, see, the irs -- they're not going to audit you on this. going to be a really strange scenario if they audit you after -- beyond the grave. >> host: is there a shortage of dead bodies for surgeons, et cetera? >> guest: yes and no. people -- depending on where you live, because if you're in -- if you live somewhere near, say, stanford or harvard, people love to donate to those schools. it's kind of like you can say, i'm going to harvard. i've often thought the people who run the real body program should have t-shirts made up that say i'm going to harvard, the hard sadr will body program. and it's funny. there can be two medical schools close by. i think there's duke and then there's another smaller college that has medical school. but it doesn't have the same prestige, so duke is always sort of quietly giving their surplus. so they're regional surpluses and deficits. some places have plenty of bodies, others are always scrambling to get more bodies. >> host: in "stiff: the cure you lives" you write it makes little sense

talking about the nsa and the irs and all the other thicks -- >> politics at the moment. so are you basically saying, are you seeing, is there evidence that they are just looking for poorer people and saying forget about your income, and we'll worry about it next year? >> i'm not seeing that, but i would wonder if that wouldn't evolve naturally as a business model simply because, okay, we've identified what success is. secretary sebelius has said it's seven million people, and you need to get there pretty quickly in order to say, look, this thing is working just as we planned. you know, the old sutton's law thing, rob banks because that's where the money is. >> california. october 1. you have it very differently, you're doing much more outreach. i don't know if that gives you navigative programs already up, you're doing messaging, it's a totally different political environment, yet you also have hard-to-reach populations, non-english speaking. you've got plenty of young invincibles, so the obstacles are similar in a different political complex. what happens when it starts in october

a lot of it happening on the articles of the paper they are talking about the nsa and the irs and all the other things you're talking about. >> so basically you're saying -- is there evidence that they are just looking at us this and we are looking by mr.? >> so simply because we have identified what successor is in this includes 7 million people, and we need to get there pretty quickly. in order to say, well, look, this thing is working just as we planned. the whole suttons lossing because that is where the money is. >> you have a very differently and you are doing much more outrage. you are doing messaging. it is a totally different political environment, if you also have hard-to-reach populations and have non-english-speaking, you have the farm areas, plenty of young invincibleis, so that the obstacles are similar in a different political context. what are you seeing and what is happening when october comes? circuit is hard to say until october. it seems like we will be investing a huge amount in outreach and enrollment grateful campaign has not launched yet. so there are very

that his trajectory is not what he expected. the irs scandal has shown a. the drone issue has. so in terms of party, there's all this last part of the democratic party that is somehow not talk about. i said repugnance our at a disadvantage because the media focuses more on the divisions within the republican party and the understood what happened in 22. they're working very hard to try to find a new path for themselves but there's nobody in charge. this is a democracy. there are all these different people who are vying for attention for their own voice, and this is part of the beauty of voices we have in america as well. >> i'm going to let karl's biggest i've informed keeper of the time went down, i' i'm sorr, we can't take any more questions. >> in preparation for today's event i went back and read a lot, and there's a particularly insightful column written on june 17 on this very subject. not by me unfortunately. though my column today is pretty damn good. but on the 17th of june mike wrote this, the single largest constituency within the gop and compose about a quart of the entir

that level particularly in texas. they will be mad about the irs and inflation and any number of things. this will probably be fairly low down on the list. there is no question there will be some discussion about this and we will likely absorb criticism for not enthusiastically abrasive -- embracing the affordable care act. it has been well advertised i have been a skeptic from day one. the other thing that will come up that i will hear about in texas is the old issue of funding. the end of the fiscal year so -- changes start the next day. there's a nexus that will be pretty important and we have incredible budget battles before the end of the year with the federal debt limit and how that is going to interplay in this. do i trust the federal government to do everything they say they're going to do? absolutely not. what if i start this medicaid expansion and there is no partner with me at the end of the year and i am standing on my own? the funding questions are going to be the more heated ones like you are in the house and control the purse strings and shut this thing down and th

me, the question that is raised by the nsa, the question that is raised by the irs is how is it that we should hold these vast, complex, opaque institutions accountable? how is it that effective oversight is possible? how can we possibly know that if a few people with vast power whether it's honestly the federal reserve chairman or the head of the nsa or the -- how can we know that they are always competent, ethical, well meaning? the point is, i think we need a fundamental re-examination. i would hope on a bipartisan basis prompted by these events at nsa and irs. we need a fundamental re-examination of how do we conduct effective oversight. how do we hold these institutions accountable. and perhaps in the course of that fundamental re-examination we will conclude that sometimes there is just too much power invested in too few people, and sometimes bureaucracies have simply become so large, so complex that they are unimaginable, and we -- unmanageable, and we need to do something different. those are the profound questions that i hope will be raised by these twin events this summer i

evening news, the local radio stations. they're talking about the nsa and the irs and all the other things -- >> politics of the moment. so are you basically saying, i mean, is this something you're worried about? is there evidence that they are just looking for poorer people and saying forget about your income, we're signing you up, and we'll worry about it next year? >> i'm not seeing that, but i'm wondering if that would not evolve as a business model. okay, we've identified what success is, and you need to get there pretty quickly. and in order to say, look, this thing is working just as we planned, you know, the old sutton's law thing, rob banks because that's where the money is. >> california, october 1. you have it very differently. you're doing, you know, much more outreach. i don't know if that gives some navigator kind of programs already up, you're doing messaging, you're doing -- it's a totally different political environment, yet you also have hard-to-reach populations, you have non-english seeking, the farm areas, you've got plenty of young invincibles. so the obstacle

your local fidelity branch and open an irs. people are not sophisticated enough in many situations to do that and not educated enough to understand the importance of why. planned design bridges that gap and education and engage and strategies are critical to it. we talked about the deck. i have seen a lot of success in the marketplace where advisers or employers are actually offering workshops or webinar as on budget planning, how to get out of debt, giving preliminary tools to help make better decisions before we tell them all about why they need to save. there is almost too much information for people to make good decisions and we need to focus hard on eliminating that malloy is. from california, i was recently appointed to the california secured choice retirement board. its cares me to death there are 6.3 million california private sector workers that don't even have access. that statistic is staggering. what that means for our state, for any of the states is something we all need to consider as we go through this process. i have seen the benefits plan design can really create. out

after staging area in new england. he and his crew went to ire throned deliver the new aircraft and on to england. my dad would write a letter from abroad or my mom would send one to england. sometimes it would take five weeks to arrive. when i was born in may of '44 two months after he departed. he didn't know i was born for like roughly twelve or fourteen days. then he didn't know the detail of the birth for almost three weeks following my birth. that's different from today where you have e-mails, and cell phones, and international calling and so easy. skype, servicemember deploy can keep connected to the family. it was a different time another illustration is his first thanksgiving away he was out in california, i believe, and my dad stood five hours in a line waiting to call home on a pay phone. can you imagine waiting five hours for your turn then you call home and there's no answer machine. there's no guarantee your fianÉe at the time will be home. no -- so the five hours you invested in calling home might have been for not if knob answered the phone. how much different is th

, the local radio stations. they're talking about the nsa and the irs and all the other things -- >> politics of the moment. so are you basically saying, i mean, is this something you're worried about? is there evidence that they are just looking for poorer people and saying forget about your income, we're signing you up,

? >> fingerprints and irs with the biometric. >> they have fingerprint. >> but they do not have dual. we had someone get the transcript from last weekend testified from the fbi that fingerprints can be altered. they are not secure. and the only secure means of identification guaranteed would be dual biometric and that is irs and fingerprint. we do not have anything with the irs, nexus, fast, global entry, passport and what was the other one? sentry, right? >> i believe we are looking at the irs. >> for 11 or 12 years i asked that be done in law after 2001 and i think 2002. .. that's my first round. i'll go in to my second round. did you have a -- >> yes, sir. >> we'll let her go and i'll come back. i'll try to recover in the meantime. [laughter] >> gentlewoman from new mexico, gentlelady, excuse me, from new mexico. thank you. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. thank you to the panel. i'm in an interesting position from new mexico in that we have small unique border from new mexico to mexico. but are effective pry particularly be therd -- the border at el paso. not that we don't get the s

to be clear, the roth irs is the -- ira is where you put in after-tax dollars, and you get distribution without paying any taxes. >> and i'll tell you, there's a group that we've worked with for a long time called some, and if you're a d.c. person be, you probably know them. and they do that, they actually have a retirement account, a 401, it's amazing pause they have a lot of -- because they have a lot of employees because they run a lot of homeless shelters and things like that. if you don't want money taken out for the 401k, you can go to the payroll or the hr people and say you can't do that, and they also allow them to have a savings account that's separate. but that's because they're in the business of doing, and, you know, this is like a bigger issue for the rest of the world here. >> so following up on your question, is volatility of the market something that really discourages women, african-americans, hispanics to take that first step in saving in a 401(k)? it seem like you have options for fairly seem investments. >> mr. i -- like, i remember the data that aerial