tea party versus non-tea party. this is a place where the tea party normally should win and i argue the expectations say the tea party is the place to lose. if they don't, it adds to the narrative. mainstream hasn't stopped the tea party before if mainstream groups are going to kiss of death. how do you prevent that from being the case in the primaries in 2014? >> i think you are right about the tea party, but i don't think the business community and mainstream republicans have really organized effectively and funded effectively in an effort to recruit mainstream candidates against the candidates and do it early. i think the race you mentioned was where they are getting in late. i think that they are getting in now for 2014 and really realizing we have to change the dog food. >> i want to ask you about chris christie. one of the things they are trying to do is model it after what you guys did for george w. bush. are they doing it? do you think they have copied it well? >> very much so. there is a lot of parallels th

of the tea party. you may never heard of the working family party. it backed bill de blasio big time. and if he wins tonight, the wfp is going to be on everybody's radar screen and they could soon have a tea party-size role. you've got grassroots dynamics, on the right you have the tea party, you have the wfp. >> sounds like mma. you said they're the opposite of the tea party, what does that mean when you say that, what is the tea party to you? >> the tea party to me is a party that believes in liberty, whereas progressives believes in liberty and justice for all. >> you don't think the tea party believes in justice. >> i believe in liberty. as an african-american, you don't have to work hard to sell me on liberty. but we say liberty and justice for all. that means you have to worry about low income people, lesbians and gays. that's been left out of the tea party. >> i think that is oftentimes the perception, but i think it's an unfair perception. what tea party believes is very much freedom and respon

there is tea party and there's tea party. sadly, i think they get to flick it. can cucinelli are lumped into this national narrative is being tea party. ken cucinelli was a state senator for many terms and was a virginia attorney general and is a patent attorney. he was trained as an engineer and is clearly a credible and competent legislator who happened to be very conservative. dean young in alabama was essentially a political consultant who had been part of the chief justice war machine who had been a perpetual candidate and ran many times and lost. i agree, it's probably not fair to lump tea party in. i think dean young loss for a variety of reasons and i think they probably nominated the better candidate in alabama. host: springfield, missouri, independent caller. caller: i think we very much have a corporate congress. whether they are democrat or republican or independent or tea party, they are there to be a public servant. they make more money than the average american. they have more benefits. when they shut down the government, they did not lose their p

party. 42% of virginia voters opposed the tea party movement. look at what they did today. those voters giving a huge edge to mcauliffe. in a close race the tea party a huge factor here. in the end this was the essence of terry mcauliffe's campaign message even in a state that has been reliably red in the past, he said ken cucinnelli was too conservative. after the electorate agreed with terry mcauliffe in a close race painting his opponent as an extremist on the social issues and tea party agenda enough to give terry mcall their narrow victory in the state of virginia. people will study the maps as we look forward to 2016. this one very closely because of virginia's key role as a presidential swing state. piers? >> thank you very much indeed, john king. when we come back new jersey's big man wins a very big victory and talks to cnn's jake tapper. the day we rescued riley, was a truly amazing day. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. for over 18 years we've helped people take care of

now, the tea party is not going to want that. all right? they're not going to want, and i'm speaki ining generally now, they're not going to want to give illegal aliens anything. the moderate wing of the republican party, john mccain, they do want it, saying and rightly so, we've got to convince hispanic-americans to give us a look. if you're going to say no on immigration reform, you got to tick them out of the country and that's it. we're doomed. so now you're going to have another issue, and believe me, president obama, the only way he gets out of obama care is by making the immigration thing. and he's going to do everything he can to get that in the forefront. but then you have another battle between the moderates and the tea party. >> yeah, you're absolutely right. the president is going to pivot away from that because that's more politics than policy. let's look at what governor chris christie did up in new jersey that was successful for him and gave him the black vote. he came out very strongly on school choice and he got the black m

rafael cruz has said these kinds of things in tea party groups here. i've heard him in iowa and elsewhere. and let me tell you, you go away and talk to some of these pastors, religious pastors and populist tea party folks on the right and they'll say what's to disagree with? >> this is exactly what boehner does in the house. it's exactly what all people in the right now do. they have this rightist, far right of right cotillion out there, this auxiliary out there. they use to it get right, right, right. if they get into power that will be part of their coalition. they do it by saying i'm not that far right, but that guy's an ally. boehner says it. they won't disown the craziest of them because the craziest of them is their engine. >> yeah. it's the tiger they want to ride into power. it's the tiger that john boehner rode into power as speaker. it's the tiger i think ted cruz wants to ride into power at least in the -- >> those people clicking their heels for ted cruz the jr. are thinking many of them like the father. but then they know you can't say tha

>> i think there's elements of the tea party that are republicans at their best. limited government, in favor of individual liberty and freedom, tough on government spending, questioning taxes and whether you need to expand them or grow them. so i think the core of the tea party movement as i understand it i think is very consistent with good conservative republicanism. now what happens is when some folks use that movement, use that theory just to try to enhance themselves politically, sometimes that movement can then get perverted. and so listen, there's a lot of principles about the tea party they agree with and have governed in new jersey in a way that's consistent with a lot of that. >> a lot of tea partiers i've heard from think you're a rhino, republican in name only. >> listen, that's some folks who will say if you ever say anything nice about a democrat, you're an rino. they can call me whatever they want. i don't really care. my view is let people judge me by my record. i'm a guy who's cut taxes $2.3 billion in the state. our budget fiscal 2014 spends les

c the republican party win next year without including libertarians and the tea party lot of public initiativesn the ballot last night as well. folks in colorado can smoke pot, but the rocky mountain highl beaxed a 25% and a split decision and the moral of the secession movement is that at first you don't succeed, try again. and likely to be reduced, voters rejecting a 200 million-dollar reovation. you can also smoke pot in portla, maine. and it is a legl recreational activity. and las vegas casinos, in some cases a lack of moderation we will see what both partiessmake of that and whether there is room for a third view next ear and in 2016. >> joining us now toake up the implicationsor both parties, we are joined by jlie buzynski and a "new york post" coluist. good to ave you both with us. let's start with you, a remarkable win for governor chris christie. >> it becomes even more amazing, chr christie who everyone thinks is a good moderate -- he could e both, right? lou: he called himself a conservative. >> but he got 92% of the tea party vote in the polls and that is amazing. >> particularly wi

there's tea party and tea party. sadly, i think they deflate it. so ken cucinelli and dean young both part of that narrative of being a tea party. ken cucinelli state senator for many years, an attorney general, a patented attorney. he's clearly a credible competent ledges -- legislator who's conservative. dean young was part of the chief justice war machine. a perpetual candidate had won many times and lost. i agree. i think the tay party and dean young lost for a variety of reasons and i think they frankly nominated the better candidate down in alabama. >> independent caller. >> yes, i very much think that we have -- we basically have a corporate congress. you know, we have whether they're democrat, republican, independent tea party, they're there to be a public servant. they shut down the government, they didn't lose their pay, they didn't lose their health care. and you know it's about who has the most money. the lobbyists worked for these corporations. if you don't have millions of dollars, what chance do you have of even getting something hea

this is the tea party mantra. remember the tea party is essentially a racist organization. let's just be honest about that. we saw it from the very beginning with the white face they used to wear at the rallies, with the posters they used to hang around, with the confederate flags that i saw at tea party rallies here on the washington mall, and the source of that tea party movement is that they've never been able to accept barack obama as a legitimate president. the birthers are part of it. they've never been able to accept a black man in the white house. then we see all these different manifestations of it. that's what's going on here. with all these different stories we're telling. it's part of the the same m.o. >> when you look at the fact that conservative republicans would say that the president's a muslim, he's not. 16% said it in october of 2008. by july of 2012, that number has jumped to 34%. the extreme rhetoric makes its way to average people who believe it. here's part of an interview -- let me show you this. here's part of an interview that jonathan capehart did

if the tea party hates socialism as much, will the tea party congressman of georgia and the tea party of the county stand up and block the 450 million dollars being handed over to a baseball team in america's most recent ugly example of sports socialism? here is the tea party's big chance to show that they really do hate socialism. the tea party has never, ever, taken a stance against sports socialism. the tea party should be out there tonight. threatening to run a republican primary challenger against the socialist, the sports socialist county commission chairman tim lee. the tea party should not give tim lee another day of peace. now that he has embraced sports socialism. what if the county commission chairman was named obama. what do you think the tea party would hatch said about sports socialism coming to the county? every day of tea party silence on this kind of sports socialism in the heart of tea party country, will prove once again, that the tea party doesn't know what socialism is, and is really just the i hate obama party. the mayor said there was no way that the baseball te

party won because the tea party now taken an establishment

and i don't see any tea party members accepting this. >> i agree with you. i don't think that he would pass the smell test and he did raise taxes when it was necessary. he was a moderate by today's standards. which, you know, those moderates have left the republican party. >> the -- the republican party then when reagan entered in in national prominence actually had liberals, there were tlings called republican liberals. and yet it's so fascinating to see the sarah palins and still hark ping back to reagan as if they actually agree with him. >> as if they actually agree with him and as if a great segment of the population, particularly young people see reagan in the same way or lived when reagan was president. i don't think it has the same resonance that might have had ten or 15 years ago. the problem, of course srks t, republicans have not had a president that they want to go back to and they feel like did a good job. they had first bush, they see him as too moderate and the second bush, also in some ways too moderate for them. it doesn't seem that the part

before we go to new jersey, the tea party, tea leaves for the tea party coming out of virginia, start with that. >> well, the mainstream business oriented republicans would love for the narrative was that the tea party was damaged. they didn't get their man in , and without support, ken cuccinelli received nothing. he was cut off a month ago, and still he came extremely close to winning this with support from tea party activists, christian conservatives, that's the coalition that the mainstream republicans who want to go back to the old days will have to fight against. >> david sirota. >> i think that's right. the republican party is facing a real electability problem. to win a republican primary, you have to make peace with the tea party. and to make peace with the tea party you have to take positions that will make it harder for you to be elected. that's not a problem for gerrymandered districts for people running in the united states congress. but that is a problem in states like virginia where there is a very competitive election. >> let' let's go from the squeaker in virginia to

a record breaking landslide without a trace of tea party support. where does the tea party stand? joining me now, former democratic congressman, david frost and former house speaker to john boehner. good morning, gentlemen. >> good morning. >> let me read to you from today's "washington post." mike murphy, a gop strategist who sides with the establishment wing of the party. and christie is a how-to manual and virginia is a not how to manual. do you agree? >> the outcome speaks for itself. clearly, governor christie did very well and it helps when you successfully governed and you've shown that your policies work and then you're running for reelection. to a large degree he had a huge advantage going into the race. in the situation with virginia, while certainly troubling, republicans will spend time looking at this. cuccinelli's margin of loss was about the same of what mitt romney's was ask slightly smaller than george allen's loss to tim cane in 2012. so i think while certainly the tea party dynamic has created some difficulties. i think a larger reassessment in terms of how does

the tea party is nothing new the activism we see from tea party radicals in washington today is just a modern day reboot a rebranding perhaps of the same government obstructionist strategies that have been around since the early days of slavery from the battles over segregation and discrimination of the one nine hundred fifty s. and sixty's to the war on voting rights that alec is driving in state capitals all across our nation today tea party esque strategies and values every pete earley rear their ugly heads throughout american history as chuck thompson over at salon dot com points out the tea party strategy of today is the same old obstructionist strategy that's been pursued by traitorous southerners and government since long before robert e. lee is doomed to charge at gettysburg thomson goes on to say that it is part of the same soiled fabric that stretches from john c. calhoun in south carolina's eighteen thirty two order ordinance of elevation all the way to the newt gingrich led government shutdown. simply put the tea party represents the twenty first century rebirth of angry

neil: tea parties don't like him. >> he does not stand for tea party values. >> he said he does, what gets your goat. >> he has never been pressed by the establishment on take a stand on for example amnesty, he is not the tea party brand. neil: you are not in crowd that said if tea partiers stop talking about social issues they would get further. >> i time, tai talk to them, i was talking to someone in my hotet last night, he said, i know your perspective, you don't want to pay for anyone, your party is party of greed? we'll we're taking that to the national level, and say it is all about the money? that is how the democrats top paint us, we're -- democrats want to paint us,,we're about having come path for people, saying you need help let me help you, looks into whites of eyes rather than saying let me toss that over to government, how income pat passionate. >> if you have the -- you might be more amen able to them but didn't you don't hear that you are not? >> there are a lot of values we need to think about. it has a lot to do with our platform, stick to what we the people as grass

a lot paint the tea party as extreme but a lot of republicans are leaving the party to join the tea party. what's the new normal now? >> moderate is a slippery term. it's easier to say what a conservative is rather than what a moderate is. a moderate is basically a practicing mma pragmatitist. actually it's how to get things done so much as articulating the way things ought to be. >> it's mentioned some republicans are leaning more toward the tea party. can traction? >> a lot of this comes down to basic problems that we have with our definitions. but sure. you still have a number of constituents ease in the careen party. if you are looking at gailing out the 2016 nominating contest, there is a reason that chris kristi's name continues to be mentioned in this. he is seen as being the more stereo typical sort of northeastern moderate republican but he has conservative stances. >> people are thinking of what is palatable. i don't know that they think it's authentic. >> that's a question and i think that's something if i were a christie advisors i would be concerned about. his great strength

are you a tea partier? are you a tea party republican? >> i think there's elements of the tea party that are republicans at their best. limited government, tough on government spending, individual freedom, questioning taxes and whether you need to expand them or grow them. i think it is consistent with good conservative republicanism. now what happens is when some folks use that movement, use that theory just to try to enhance themselves politically, sometimes that movement can then get perverted. and so listen, there's a lot of principles about the tea party that i agree with and have governed in new jersey in a way that's consistent with a lot of that, but you know, some of the stuff that's happened of late down in washington i think is not even consistent with what a lot of the real folks who started the tea party movement would agree with. >> i don't know what you're talking about, you mean -- >> just the idea that you don't try to, you know, for instance on the sequester, we're actually succeeding as a movement and reducing governmen

party mainstream. >> there's a tea party guy that's maybe going to win. and he's a birther. >> christie can't get through a republican primary now. >> one of the most fascinating things we're going to watch, you have a civil war in the republican party right now. where these red states really are red and they want more red. then you have people, pennsylvania, ohio, new jersey all the way to new england who are looking for something that might win the general election. and they also think they're not as right wing. look at the numbers out of virginia tonight. only 30% are big on the tea party. 47% against it. >> i disagree with steve. follow the money. the fact of the matter is chris christie had an overwhelming fund raising advantage. ken couuccinelli got killed in e fund raising. >> look at alabama, all the money was with the candidate. he's probably going to lose to the tea party guy with no money. >> i think there's evidence that it's not the king caucus they thought it was. thank you john feehery and steve mcmahon. this debate will go on for three yea

is he a tea party candidate or a conservative or a rhino? at the end of the day, these things -- where you stand depends on where you set. it's important that conservatives are able to sort of stick together. there is a real danger. as we have seen, the cleavages are not that clear. rhinos and other persons like radical conservative extremists. host: caller: caller: wendy, independent caller. how are you doing? i have a question for mr. lewis. these big companies send -- they go overseas to all these countries and they make a pair of nikes that cost $10 and the comeback you're in charge $300 per it why haven't they got in with exxon who sends their monies overseas to a bank and pay no taxes because of loopholes. i am paying taxes for 31 years. i got sick and all of a sudden, my insurance was canceled. i went back to try and get it and it is $400 per month. what are they doing? obama did try to get the infrastructure putting people to work. they did not want to do that. the republicans don't seem to want to do anything that benefits taxpayers

some say the tea party is fading out. do you feel their message will resonate and be a big heart of the whole debate in iowa? >> it will be a big part of the debate in iowa but also, people who have been dissatisfied with the direction of the party in iowa are going to be activated to get more involved. i think you will have a more balanced approach . >> what are they dissatisfied with in iowa? >> i think they are the tea partyith people in iowa caught them off guard. >> in what way? riveted by of in i people who are not tea party republicans. inactivity by people who are not tea party republicans. we have to re-energized the republican party. tea partys the candidates. everyone likes our principles better get activated. out of it, the tea party will help reactivate our party so we can be a more major force, not only in iowa, but in the nation as a whole. >> a number of your colleagues have described chris christie as a moderate. from your vantage point, is he a moderate or conservative? how would you describe him? >> i h

it's not a plus for the tea party but for the republican party. the night overall is a plus for the republican party. >> there was a lot of talk about the tea party in virginia, especially cucinelli was talking about it right? >> yes. if the tea party was as strong, he could have got over the hump. the issues with obamacare and president obama and mcauliffe are facing are not tea party issues. this is not social conservativism and the issues the tea party is running on. >> in fact, in alabama tea party candidate lost a race tonight as well. let me talk to you about governor christie in new jersey. no surprise that he won. everybody predicted that. what does it mean for his presidential possibilities in the future? >> if he lost it would have been a huge problem. that's a threshold issue right there. he had to win this election in order to continue to be a front-runner for the 2016 nomination for president as a republican. the fact he won by the margin he did, the fact he did so overwhelming with the hispanics, minorities, democrats in new jersey s

tonight's lead, tea party rejection. for three year, speaker boehner has bowed down to tea party it extremists. the movement was fueled by a hateful har right ideology where they shut down the government and held the country hostage. but last night voters sent a clear signal. it's over. in virginia a bellwether for national politics, voters said no to the tea party, to the tea party candidate for governor they said no, ken cuccinelli. it was a close race with big parts of the state going for cuccinelli, but in the d.c. suburbs which makes up 18% of state's population, the democrat won by nearly 30%. the voters in those more moderate areas didn't want a governor obsessed with social issues. >> the ultimate goal, which is to make abortion disappear in america. >> homosexual acts are wrong and should not be accommodated in government policy. >> we have two lawsuits. you're all exhaling co 2, let's all annoy lisa jackson together. shall we? one, two, three. >> that kind of identifiology was rejected last night. a governor wh

he talked about the tea party. a portion of what governor o'malley had to say. >> i know -- i know people like mitch mcconnell and kelly ayot -- i know that they've been trying to distance themselves from the tea party every since they nearly drove our country into default. but the truth is, sadly, there's very little difference today between the tea party and so-called main stream republicans. ask sheryl kay porter, ask annie custer. they see it every day in the unrepresentative house of representatives. there's little daylight between the tea party and the republican party. think about it. both would have millionaires do less -- cut taxes for big oil, cut taxes for multinationals, reduce social security benefits and medicaid coverage. cut student loans, cut veterans' benefits, invest less in education, in affordable college. do less to combat climate change. do less on gun safety. do nothing to fix our immigration system. and keep families who are trying to survive on the minimum wage from ever earning even anoth

tea party before tea party was cool. i think virginians are saying we don't want that kind of extremism whether it's in washington or richmond. >> to that point, senator, you bring up the point of extremism. two years ago terry mcauliffe couldn't get 30% in a democratic gub torp primary. why is he the right choice? is this more about rejecting the tea party and ken cuccinelli? >> i think terry spent the last four years traveling around virginia learning more about the commonwealth. i think he's ready to govern. i think one of the interesting criticisms made of terry was that he was a business guy and knew how to get a deal done. candidly where i work having a few more works who could get a deal done, having more people to read a balance sheet i think is a good thing. i think folks across virginia recognize that. >> how has turnout been so far? what are you hearing? >> i heard early reports. i can tell you where i voted in alexandria, turnout heavier than normal. the commentators earlier said, it's a little bit episodic.

establishment versus the tea party. >> the tea party isn't nearly as much fun as it sounds. >> yeah, well -- >> i think the motto of the tea party should be back to the future. because think -- no, really. think about it. >> the tea party, now more than ever -- >> anyone, anyone? >> -- is doing everything they can -- within the electoral system to tight back. >> we said this race was a referendum on obama care. >> [ bleep ] insurance before sucked! >> this race came down to the wire, because of obama care. >> don't pretend that the old system was cocoon. we won't ever get old and we won't ever die. >> i feel tremendous! i'm ready to take on the world! ooh! >> that virginia understands that obama care is a failure, and although i lost -- >> let's dance! >> we hope to never hear the name cuccinelli again. >> that message will go out across america tonight. ♪ >>> good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. the deceased owner of the oakland raiders, al davis, used to say "just win, baby. just win." he used to walk around practice biting his nails, because he was nervo

are down with the tea party. while cuccinelli not expected to win tonight, very close race, was invited to that annual conference. when you look at chris christie's record, yes, all is local and we know the impact sandy had and continues to have. when you look at his stance, abortion, president's health care, taxes, unions, some issues that would turn democrats away from even consider gs a republican when you look at that, have not bothered them about chris christie. >> i think there are three things happening here. sandy is one of those things. if i were a voter in new jersey, i would look at sandy and that would probably be at the top of my list. the second thing is, chris christie is coming in now to -- at the descendancy of the tea party. the tea party was never that massively strong in new jersey to begin with. in 2009 when people like bob mcdonnell got elected, that was the senate seat of the tea party 2010, republicans take the house and now here we are three years later and what are we finding? the tea pa

there is tea party and there's tea party. sadly, i think they get to flick it. can cucinelli are lumped into this national narrative is being tea party. was a state senator for many terms and was a virginia attorney general and is a patent attorney. he was trained as an engineer and is clearly a credible and competent legislator who happened to be very conservative. deanyoung in alabama was essentially a political consultant who had been part of the chief justice war machine who had been a perpetual candidate and ran many times and lost. i agree, it's probably not fair to lump tea party in. loss for an young variety of reasons and i think they probably nominated the better candidate in alabama. host: springfield, missouri, independent color. -- caller. caller: i think we very much have a corporate congress. whether they are democrat or republican or independent or tea party, they are there to be a public servant. they make more money than the average american. they have more benefits. when they shut down the government, they did not lose their pay. they did not

then you look at the tea party and its standing, 28% support the tea party in virginia. you can argue there were forces, even more unpopular than the health care law. the health care law became a rallying cry for republicans and that did help ken cuccinelli when it came to getting out the vote efforts. >> with women voters as well, we talked about it in the jep election and we'll continue to talk about the fact that if a party is seen as not advancing progressively, i think issues as it relates to women, they will be punished. >> yeah and i would love it if we had a conversation about women voters other than the day after re-election, barely talks about women voters until they are like, what do we do to not attract women voters. i think cuccinelli and the virginia republican party, he has been known to be extremely conservative, particularly on abortion and virginia republican party is the party that came in with the number of very restrictive contraception measures. women in northern virginia paid attention to that all the way up to this race. i don't know mcauliffe did

the tea party in their tent. a lot of public initiatives on the ballot last night as well. folks in colorado can now smoke pot, but that rocky mountain high will be taxed at 25%. in northern colorado, a split decision on secession. six counties rejected it, five counties went for it. the moral of the movement is, if at first you don't secede try again. elsewhere the houston astro dome likely to be reduced to rubble. voters rejecting a $200 million renovation. you can also smoke pot in portland, maine now. it is now a legal recreational activity. new york voters approving seven las vegas-style casinos. yesterday's election at least in part was about vice and in some cases a lack of moderation. we'll see what both parties make of that and whether there's room for a third view next year and in 2016. joining us now to take up the implications of the wins and losses for both parties we are joined by julie wiginsk ikz, democratic strategist and michael goodwin, pulitzer prize winning "new york post" columnist. julie le

and today they're talking about the death of the tea party. i this i that it's a little bit premature to say that. i think they've shown some strength. >> interesting point. let me ask you it this way. in virginia obviously cuccinelli made obama care his platform. were you surprised at those losses last night? there has to be a little part of you that was disappointed. >> i was disappointed especially to see ken cuccinelli fall sort. he put up a tremendous effort in virginia. if you look at the numbers difference, it looks like in the calculations we've done today he was outspent more than $20 million and predicted he'd lose by double digits through most of the race. a three-way race with a libertarian candidate who tapped into i think cuccinelli more than he did mcauliffe substantially picking up 6.6% and still only lost by 2.5. at least as a moral victory, here's what i think it is. it's about full spectrum constitutional conservatives, the people who support the economic agenda of the establishment wing of the party, the low taxes, strong s

tea party. the contrast between ken cuccinelli in virginia who is running as a strong conservative tea party-backed candidate and the new jersey governor, republican chris christie, whose calling card is collectability, is clear. >> i absolutely that what you're going to see tomorrow is something that hasn't happened in this state in a generation. i had all kinds of folks whispering in my ear today, "i'm a democrat. don't tell anybody i'm voting for you." >> though christie is running for re-election as governor, his campaign team is hardly hiding the fact that they want to run up the score tonight a la george w. bush's 1998 re-election victory in texas. they want to show some impressive exit poll numbers, not just among democrats and independents but among some minority voters. all in an effort to brandish his electability credentials for a potential presidential bid in three years. to hammer home the point, he spent the last three days of his campaign canvassing the state with diana martinez,