suspicious of the former and very admiring of the latter. if we look at lincoln, dr. king, dorothy day, thomas murten, we see people who had flaws, people who were sinners, but who all cooperated with the grace of god in their lives as they understood god to be working in their lives to do great things and be forces of liberation for others. i read a lot of thomas murten when i was in high school and college. i used to have his picture on my desk. he did more to introduce americans to classic monastic spirituality than anyone in the 20th century. dorothy day, a life of endless adventure, a woman who had a bit of a walk on the wild side in her early life who became a staunch advocate of social justice, a great prolife witness, supporter of element of her you don't hear mentioned very often and then dr. king and president lincoln who in their own unique ways had very interesting relationships with the lord, with the power of god and struggled to bend that power as it works for human lives to the end of liberation. it was remarkable and i thought a real kind of love song to america an

are most vulnerable. like dr. king, we work for justice and like thomas merton, we have a deep and contemplative life. i feel like i recognize myself in his speech and coming together and being our better selves in the nation. it's been quite a day quite frankly. >> i want to listen to what he said about what it means to be a good political leader. let's listen to his deaf nation of good political leader. >> a good political leader is up with who with the interest of all in mind seizes the moment in a spirit of is openness. >> i'm going to have to memorize that word for word, the answer of what a good political leader is. >> isn't that a perfect example of the way things are now? first, i want to point out in sister campbell's honor, the loudest applause when he praised the nuns. he tapped into something in the catholic people. but on his description, there was this emphasis on the common good and on always pursuing it. and also on the need to preserve the dignity of every person. and what's really striking is he really is trying to tell people, look, you can do this. you have a be

some people to equate her with the civil rights movement and dr. king and rosa parks is horrendous and i think should really be spoken up against. >> hugh, i want to give you a chance to respond to donald trump. because i think you are a second rate. i don't think you're a third rate. that's just not fair. >> well, i have interviewed everyone on this panel at length. donald trump, if i can use a baseball analogy, when you interview donald trump it is like facing bill lee or daylord p perry. he is difficult. he is the best interview in america. i've seen every show with him. >> look at you admitting it. >> and if i was unfair, i will take criticism. >> you seem a little defensive. you wrote an op-ed and -- >> i don't like "gotcha" questions. but i think in the green room, general powell said, he became the trump of iran and had to pull him back. he said, can i quote you and said, yes, you may. so it matters, but nevertheless, journalists have to be open to criticism and i am. we'll see if others agree. it was an old irish saying, if everyone says you're drunk you better sit down. th

luther king. >> she is willing as dr. king wrote in a letter from the birmingham jail to pay the consequences of that decision and that's why she's here though she shouldn't be. >> davis is getting support from some politicians. mike huckabee a former minister is the planning a rally and a visit with davis in jail this coming week. >> this is the criminalization of christianity. what she did was follow the kentucky constitution. >> reporter: the aclu and the attorneys representing the couples turned away say her continued choices are keeping her in jail. >> she chose not to comply with the law. for every other citizen in this country when you choose to break the law there are consequences. and there are consequences for government officials. >> reporter: controversial case that could go on indefinitely. and davis' attorneys are questioning if the marriage licenses issued yesterday are in fact valid since they don't contain her signature. the county attorney and lawyers for the the couples assert they are. >> thank you so much from morehead, kentucky. we're going to bring you pict

. what's also interesting about those two figures, probably this could be said about lincoln and dr. king too, is that they were complicated people. the church understands that what a saint is is a sinner who knows they're a sinner and works with the grace of god to try to live a nobler, deeper, richer christian life. and perhaps that is part of what pope francis, who canonized junipero serra at catholic university yesterday, was trying to lift up in dorothy day and thomas merton, people who lived complex lives under difficult circumstances and yet ultimately were able to cooperate with the grace of god available in their lives to make an enormous impact on people all over the world in merton's case and leave a remarkable legacy of service in the case of dorothy day. >> merton is someone who was a tremendous pop cultural figure in certain ways or at least a literary figure. his spiritual autobiography, the "stephen story mountain" which he published shortly after world war ii became this shocking out of nowhere huge best-seller. they printed a few hundred copies. it ends up selling 100,000. a

attempts for her herself and some to equate her with the civil rights movement and dr. king and rosa parks is horrendous and i think really should be spoken up against. >> hugh, i want to give you a chance a respond to donald trump because i think you're at least a second rate radio, not third rate, just not fair. >> i've interviewed everyone on this panel, tom about boomers and doris about the bully pulpit and you about the stranger and i look forward to talking to you about your new book. donald trump, using the analysis, the best interview in america, like bill lee throwing an eephus pitch, and if i was unfair i'll take criticism. >> you seemed a little defense. wrote an op-ed. >> i don't like gotcha questions and began powell said souleymane became the trump of iran and had to pull him back. i said can i quote you, and he said yes, you may. sul manny matters and journalists have to be nevertheless journalists have to be open to criticism and i am. there's an old irish saying, if everyone says you're drunk, you better sit down. most people thought i was wobbly. >> stay standing. >

also important for civil rights. >> dr. king's i have a dream speech is probably the most iconic given in the century. >> a couple months before he came to washington. the same generation of i have a dream. 150,000 people march down the avenue in the middle of destr t destroit. they were about to sell it as a record. >> wow. >> and of course, the car industry played a big role in detroit both in its rise and fall. in the 60s, the car industry was relieving. what caused that the happen and why didn't anybody think to say hey guys, we got to work this out. >> it was sort of a perfect storm in detroit where here you have the place that made cars both the freeways and a lot of people believe the city and the industry left as well. of course, there's a lot of economic reasons why they went around the nation and the world after that to build their cars but leaving detroit behind, this place that was so instrumental and the foundation of the cars and the working middle class in the long run hurt everybody. >> steve, by the way, you have numbers and charts on looking at income inequality

with dr. martin luther king jr. and abraham lincoln and thomas merton. my colleagues chris matthews was pointing out that thomas merton has been such an influential figure to those struggling against substance abuse and struggling to reform themselves, that these are four figures that he chose and it tells you so much about his moral fervor and intellectual history. >> this is a brilliant man. i know the people think bernie sanders is a radical. read what the pope is writing about. he is not only talking about poverty and income and wealth inequality, he is getting to the heart of hypercapitalism and saying why as a society are we worshipping money. we are making money the golden idol, respecting and admiring people who have billions of dollars, at the same time as we are ignoring people who are sleeping out on the streets, who are going hungry, who have no health care. he's saying that's not the way we should be living our lives. that is a pretty profound critique of modern society. >> at the same time as he spoke out so passionately about climate change and he sees that not in pol

they lacked the signature of kim davis and compared his client to dr. reverend martin luther king, jr. >> she's faced with a decision, do i resign as an elected official where i've been doing a good job or do i sacrifice my conscience? she's not going to resign. she can't sacrifice her conscience so she is willing, as martin luther king, jr. wrote in "letter from the birmingham jail" to pay the consequences of that decision and that's why she's here, although she shouldn't be. joining me now matthew staver, the legal group representing kim davis. mr. staver, there's no victory here. there's no path to victory. how do you understand the end game here? >>. >> well, there certainly is no victory when kim davis, an innocent person, is actually incarcerated. in fact, one of the marshals even said that never before had he arrested someone who committed no crime. she's commit nod crime. >> she's been found in contempt of court. people do occasionally get put in jail for being in contempt of court. i've reported on people that that's happened to. >> you know, as far as the end game is con

reverend dr. martin luther king, particularly the quote about holding a pr promissory note, you could just see a sense of love, of compassion and hope coming from this historic visit of pope francis to the united states and being received by the president. >> i want to point out to our audience, this is new video just in to us of the start of the meeting with president obama and pope francis. let's listen in. >> we were just commenting that i noticed all of you are much better behave than usual. thank you, everybody. >> so you see there, the press corps getting their access to this image again that we'll talk so much about because there are no cameras about the private meeting of the one-on-one with pope francis and president obama. father, let me bring you back in to talk a little bit about this meeting. to my colleague, kathleen's point, when they met in 2014 everyone thought they would be talking about a number of topics. instead they were talking about cuba and the pope's role in facilitating the thaw in that relationship. this time around the speculation that it will be economic

that pope stand before congress and talk about dr. martin luther king. i grew up under his lieutenants. to see this pope summons this country to abe lincoln and martin luther king i think shows the kind of unity. >> i felt a general sense of calm from the pope in our political world and what we cover every day. there's a fight every day, a tweet battle between candidates and yesterday i just felt calm. it may not last more than these couple of days. hopefully it has lingering effects. he was talking about building bridges and things people can do together when they put their differences aside. >> and washington, the first day he got there, the whole city was just smiling. that was a beautiful day but still people were nice to each other in a way they normally aren't. it was marked to see it. arthie day started out at the houses to help the poor and there are still almost 300 catholic worker houses in the united states of america and people giving up everything to go and work to do what jesus said. abandon your mother and father and go work with the more. >> he gave that message of serv

, and the best way to do that, take on the king, donald trump. the front-runner for more than two months is now really in a top spot. the only challenger coming close to him is dr. ben carson just a few points behind in recent polling. trump has had a busy schedule in dallas on monday, los angeles last night. aboard the "uss iowa" leading to tonight's debate. trump was asked what his greatest weakness is? take a look at his response. >> well, it's a tough question because you hate to say what your weaknesses are, but i can tone it down a little when pressed. i have a great temperament. you couldn't build a great business like i built if you don't have a good temperament. but i think make i can tone it down when somebody hits you, you can hit a little less hard. at the same time, that may be the kind of thing the country needs. >> nbc's katy tur is reporting live for us in simi valley. we are talking about the ten-against-one match. we'll start with the anticipated match-up of trump versus carly fiorina. >> reporter: this is the one everyone will be watching. they say that if