joining us this hour. when jeb bush announced in june he was going to be running for president, he gave -- you may remember, it was a big joyful high-energy speech in miami in front of a big diverse crowd. he gave part of the speech in spanish. he of course gave most of the speech in english. but when he got to the part he was actually announce, saying directly he would be running for president, he kind of -- he kind of excited himself. do you remember? he gave a little hoot. a little hooting noise. and it was nice. it was like he was legitimately thrilled to be announcing he was running and to have everybody applaud him for that announcement. it was exciting in the moment. he was clearly excited. and he went "hoot." like a little happy owl. >> i'm a candidate for president of the united states of america. [ cheers and applause ] whoo. whoo. >> whoo. jeb bush, whoo, crowed out load, a joyful little noise, at the exact moment he announced he was running for president. and as jeb bush has continued running for president, his surprising talent and proclivity for making interesting little n

came out swinging. the most memorable moment is jeb bush going on the attack of his friend marco rubio for missing votes to run for president. >> marco, you signed up for a six-year term. you should show up to work. the senate, is it a french workweek? you get three days you have to show up? you can campaign or just resign and let someone else take the job. >> the last few weeks, i listened to jeb and heard you are modelling your campaign after john mccain. you will fight hard in new hampshire and places like that. you know how many votes john mccain missed when he was carrying out that comeback? i don't remember you complaining about john mccain's vote record. the reason you are doing it now is because we are running for the same position. >> reporter: the immediate reaction is the attack may have back feared on jeb bush. marco rubio may have capitalized on that moment. although donald trump and ben carson are the frontrunners. you had to look at senator ted cruz. he is looking to pull support from trump and carson. he did that by going after the media. >> the questions asked so far i

is at 22% within margin of error. marco rubio is at 13% and senator ted crews is at 9%. jeb bush is at 8%. carly fiorina drops to sixth with 7%. >> first all donald trump highest number he's ever been at. hasn't plateaued. ben carson stick it out again. proving once again the media knows nothing. on the tail of a couple of horrific marco rubio stories that said the end is here from marco rubio. marco rubio now starting to jump in front in quite a few polls. i haven't seen it statewide. that's when you can tell it means something. but marco rubio is now starting to distance himself as the establishment front-runner. >> the interesting thing for rubio, unlike his establishment competitors, jeb bush, john kasich, part of the reason he has potential, so much potential is he actually plays in both lanes. he has establishment support and using the original creature of the tea party in florida. he can play the establishment game. a lot of people are looking at him as the guy who could emerge as the anti-trump, anti-carson whatever you want to call it. >> there's some great stuff to get to

the media. and also jeb bush. >> reporter: one stage, ten candidates, a world of prickly squirm in your seats tension. >> folks, we've got to wake up. we cannot elect somebody that doesn't know how to do the job. >> reporter: john case itch swinging at donald trump who swung back. >> he was so nice. he was such a nice guy and said, oh, i'm never going to attack, but then his poll numbers tanked. >> reporter: and jeb bush on the senator's spotty attendance record. >> when you signed up for this, says that six-year term. and you should be showing up for work. literally, the senate, is it like a french work week, you get three days to show up. >> i don't remember you saying that about the record. >> reporter: ben carson ma he calls political correctness. >> they shouldn't automatically assume because you believe marriage is between one man and one woman that you are a home bow phobe. >> reporter: but above all, way above all, it was everyone hitting the media. >> well, the democrats have the ultimate super pac. call the mainstream media. >> reporter: especially the debate moderators a

you resign. jeb bush, why have your numbers fallen? how about talking about the substantive issues people care about. [ cheers and applause ] >> we're clearly not having that beer that you mentioned, but i'll give you 30 more seconds -- >> but i'll buy you a tequila or even some famous colorado brownies. >> i'll give you 30 seconds to respond. >> you find a democrat that's for cutting taxes, cutting spending $10, i'll give them a warm kiss. >> thank you, governor. >> carl. >> there's a company called manatech, a maker of nutritional supplements with which you had a ten-year relationship. they offered claims that they could cure autism, cancer. they paid $7 million to settle a deceptive marketing lawsuit in texas and yet your involvement continued. why? >> well, that's easy to answer, i didn't have an involvement with them. that is total propaganda. >> to be fair, you were on the home page of their website with the logo over your shoulder. >> if somebody put me on their home page they did it without my permission. >> does that not speak to your vetting process or judgment in any way

came out swinging early on. perhaps the most memorable moment was jeb bush going on the attack against the man he calls his friend. florida senator marco rubio for missing votes to run for president. >> marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six-year term. the senate, is it like a french workweek where you have three days to show up? just resign. >> i listened to jeb and heard that you are modelling your campaign after john mccain. you will comeback by fighting hard and carrying your own bag at the airport. you know how many votes john mccain missed? i don't remember you ever complaining about mccain's vote record. the reason you are doing it now is because we are running for the same position. >> reporter: the immediate reaction from the moment is fired on have back fired on jeb . marco rubio may have best capitalized on that moment. even though donald trump and ben carson are the frontrunners in the republican field right now, the fireworks did not come from them. you had to look at senator ted cruz. he is running in the conservative land at the party and looking for

. jeb bush, man with the most vintage sir name in the presidential field is falling fast. and yearning for the deal making of the good old days, he's officially out. we'll get to tall of that, including jim clyburn, whether his party feels like working with ryan will be different than with boehner. and and we'll talk to republicans on what it's like to now have speaker ryan insped of boehner. >>> but we start with the aftermath of the third republican presidential debate. today a little boasting but a lot of complaining about the debate and, well, the media. >> who saw the debate last night? and -- great book -- who won the debate? >> you did! >> we did well. when you get credit from the press you know you did well. >> i was arguing for three hours, actually, for debate when you ten people on age, two hours goes by pretty fast. >> i think the republican party's becoming the loser here. i don't think rnc could run a one-car funeral. this is getting pretty bad. >> we've turned this into a game show. jump in, get your answer in. >> they want us to kill each other. >> what it's turned into

♪ >> bon soir. mark: with all due respect to jeb bush, we would critique you, but our french workweek is just about over. >> oui, oui. ♪ john: the music is as funny as anything. mark: we just flew from colorado and boy, are our arms tired. tired, because we spent the day applying to campaign staffers and e-mails. royals were roiling over the mets marco rubio stole , the exclamation point from jeb and replaced it with a timebomb. my debate report card -- today, jeb bush tried to stick it to rubio. this is an interview with fox news from portsmouth, new hampshire. jeb bush: the point is, pursuing your own ambitions at the expense of others is the wrong way to go. marco is my friend. i admire marco but i think we need to focus on who can lead? who can forge consensus? who can solve problems? that is my approach year in portsmouth, new hampshire. i will be campaigning hard all across the country with the message that i can fix the things that are broken. mark: what happened last night and what happens next? you are writing your piece, and you suggested that jeb bush's campaign

weekend. kind of glad i get to interview a guy named jeb bush this weekend. we will be back friday. steve kornacki picks up our coverage right now. >>> right now on msnbc, is jeb bush's campaign on life support after last night's debate? trying to recover from a poor performance. >> it's not on life support. we have the most money. we have the greatest organization. we're doing fine. >> national gop front runner ben carson calling for a change in future republican debates less than 24 hours after his reserved performance on the stage. >> paul ryan of the state of wisconsin having received the majority of the votes cast is duly elected as speaker of the house. [ applause ] >> and a big task ahead for the new speaker. can paul ryan unite republicans and fix a broken house of representatives? i'm steve kornacki. we begin with the big question for jeb bush. can he recover aft? after struggling he defended his performance in new hampshire. >> it's not on life support. it has the most money. there are eight more debates. there is ample time to do exactly what candidates do. end is not he

now. >>> is donald trump crazy to fight with jeb bush will september 11th? is bush crazy to fight back? how do trump's comments line up with the actual 9/11 commission? you might be surprised. >>> it's a game of cops and robbers that became a tragedy. a 6-year-old boy shoots his little brother and now their father is behind bars. you'll hear why. >>> cars on fire, secret hideouts, dramatic face-off. the mexican government says it just missed nabbing one of the most dangerous fugitives on earth. given this is the same government that literally let this guy escape under their nose, should we believe them? >>> hello, everyone, i'm john berman. >> hello, i'm kate bolduan. george w. bush might have left the oval office seven years ago now, but he's suddenly become a focal point in the republican race for 2016. donald trump sticking by his claim that the former president did not keep the country safe from terrorists and also slamming his brother, jeb bush, for saying otherwise. >> trump also says that if he were president at the time, his policies might have prevented the attacks. >> wh

recovering bodies trying to figure out how this could have happened. also jeb bush's campaign in iowa today, he's denying those that say his presidential dream is in danger. we'll take you live to the hawkeye state coming up this hour. also the white house makes a major move, sending american troops to syria on the ground. will this crucial move make a difference in the fight against isis? here in the cnn newsroom, i'm poppy harlow in new york. >>> a passenger jet carrying 224 people hit the ground and recovery crews report everyone onboard this plane was killed. according to egyptian authorities the pilot did not signal or make any distress or mayday calls, and egypt's government says no signs of terrorism have been found. the plane's flight data recorder and the voice data recorder were recovered. russia's state run media reports that most people onboard were returning from vacation in the resort town of sharm el sheikh. victims' remains are being rushed to the morgue, grieving families still waiting in anguish. so far officials have recovered the remains of at least 130 people. cnn

of them, but i think he was a great president. jeb bush: you can say that all of you want -- all you want. >> as it relates. jeb bush: he is a mighty fine brother. >> we know that if the obama administration had followed through with your brother's decisions related to iraq, probably we would not be in this mess today. one question, two-parts. where do you differ from your brother? the other question is related to education -- most republicans prefer to have educational decision-making devolved to the states. you are a strong supporter of common core -- that leads to a lot of decisions in washington. jeb bush: where i differ for my brother, i am taller, and younger. probably not as smart. the context for presidents are always different. my dad was president in 1990 -- 9089. the year 2000 was different. the difference in my brother's administration was, we got attacked. he became a wartime president. i think he did next remarried job keeping us safe -- i think he did an extraordinary job keeping us safe. [applause] as a result, the other areas where a president can put pressure on con

allowed to see evidence against them or defend themselves. jeb bush: that sounds like it violates the bill of rights. >> i want to ask you where you stand on rights under the constitution and something such as that. jeb bush: without knowing the specifics, the bill of rights trumps state law, plain and simple. whether it is the second opinion -- amendment and you have states trying to overreach and restrict gun rights to law-abiding citizens. normally that is settled in the federal court. i don't know the specifics. the bill of rights -- i was the chairman of the national constitution center for a few years. i had a chance to fall in love with the constitution again. normally you will learn about it as a kid, it is different, kind of interesting. you do not realize the power of the constitution. it plays out in our lives each and every day. it is an incredible blueprint for a free society. we may be the only country that has a set of rights to protect us from our government. it is powerful. as long as we are self-governing, this document will keep us free and maintain the greatness of

and jeb bush over president bush's role in the 9/11 tragedy, a political blame game. >>> incredible images of devastation as typhoon slams into the fill peends with 150-mile-per-hour winds and the equivalent of six feet of rain. >>> police are still searching for a shooter who opened fire, killing one and wounding five at a florida zombie festival. >>> the mets have the cubs against the wall as they head to wrigley. >>> deflate gate rivals battle at indy and ed ye murphy trading places with mark twain? "first look" starts right now. good monday morning to you. thanks for joining us today. i'm betty nguyen. 55 weeks until election day 2016 but this upcoming week could prove to be explosive. "the washington post" is reporting the inside story of trump campaign's connections to a big money superpack. the campaign strongly denies green lighting the make america great again pack and threatening a lawsuit should "the washington post" report truch has given his blessing. if true this could hurt the reputation of a candidate. on the other side of the race, bernie sappeders is reacting to la

much for joining us. >>> happening this hour, republican presidential candidate jeb bush is meeting with his family and biggest donors behind closed doors. all this comes just days after slashing salaries and staff. one topic that will likely be discussed at the meetings today, bush's poor showings in the latest polls. the latest one in iowa from monmouth university just out has bush coming in fifth right now behind marco rubio and ted cruz, and get this, he's 24 points behind the front-runner, dr. ben carson. let's get right to our senior washington correspondent, joe johns. joe, what do we know about this jeb bush family and donor meeting that's under way right now? >> reporter: well, wolf, we do know these were regularly scheduled meetings, first over the weekend with bush 41, his wife, barbara, the parents, also donors there. big-money donors, in fact, an attempt to reassure them that all is well with the jeb bush campai campaign, even though he's seen some tough sledding over the last days and weeks. again, meetings today in houston, this time with bush 43, george w. bush, and

especially stinging insult. >> jeb bush is a low-energy person. for him, to get things done is hard. he's very low energy. >> i like him, he's a nice person. is he a low energy person, there is no question about it. >> i'm not used that kind of a person. i'm just not used to it. i'm used to, you know, dealing with killers, pem that go---- -- people that go-- (laughter). >> trevor: i'm not surewhat-- m. what type of killers are these, done all trump? but the point is very clear. jeb bush is a small man withed into ely arms, he has no fire and no passion and that all changed at the last republican debate when jeb bush found the muse that inspired him, is brother george. >> you know what, as relates to my brother, there is one thing i know for sure. he kept us safe. i don't know if you remember-- (applause). >> trevor: yeah, he got thosebi. why, if i weren't his brother and i was a beautiful lady, sorry, what was i talking about? (laughter) well, that whole incident was just over a month ago and apparently donald trump finally thought of the perfect comeback. >> this is from donald trump res

the race for the white house. will the third strike against jeb bush put him out of the presidential contest? for the third debate in a row, a candidate once thought to be the republican party's best bet really failed to breakthrough. here are some headlines. he came out a clear loser of the republican debate along with a name that's not even in the running, cnbc, taking a lot of the heat today for what many say were low blow questions from the moderators. and just moments ago, jeb bush spoke about the debate during a campaign stop in new hampshire. here he was. >> right now, washington is not working at all. it's dysfunctional. the debate last night was a good example of it. there wasn't any substantiative question where people talk about the questions around their kitchen table. very few things that were real. it was all about the horse race. it was all about the trying to figure out the gotcha question to make people look bad. >> so who came out on top? we'll soon get to all of that. first, in case you missed it, a recap. >> what's your biggest weakness? >> i don't really have any

frustrations. we appreciate it daniel levy. >> let's talk about the jeb bush donald trump view that is coming more contentious. the former florida governor unleashed a two minute ad politicking trump. plus run, joe run, that was a new york crowd's chant. next we'll show you how he reacted as we await his answer on a potential 2016 bid. is, i'm hacking your company. grabbing your data. stealing your customers' secrets. there's an army of us. relentlessly unpicking your patchwork of security. think you'll spot us? ♪ you haven't so far. the next wave of the internet requires the next wave of security. we're ready. are you? [annouduring sleep train's latriple choice sale.ig for a limited time, you can choose up to 48 months interest-free financing on a huge selection of tempur-pedic models. or choose to save $300 on beautyrest and posturepedic mattress sets. you can even choose $300 in free gifts with sleep train's most popular stearns & foster mattresses. the triple choice sale ends sunday at sleep train. ♪ sleep train ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ >>> all right. le

>> bonsoir. mark: with all due respect to jeb bush, we would critique you, but our french workweek is just about over. >> oui, oui. ♪ john: the music is as funny as anything. mark: we just flew from colorado and boy, are our arms tired. marco rubio stole the exclamation point from jeb and replaced it with a timebomb. today, jeb bush tried to stick it to rubio. >> the point is, pursuing your own ambitions at the expense of others is the wrong way to go. i admire marco but i think we need to focus on who can lead? who can forge consensus? that is my approach here in new hampshire. i will be campaigning hard all across the country with the message that i can fix the things that are broken. mark: what happened last night and what have his next? he suggested jeb bush's campaign is close to done. how dire is it? john: it is dire -- not just because the performance -- i think the problem is that this is such a revealing performance. there was so much on the line. so many people were looking. can he rise to the occasion? not only did he not rise, he shrunk. that tells you a lot about the

also pretty disappointing poll numbers for jeb bush and carly fiorina. they're at 5% and 4% respectively. but if you want some insight into why these shifts that we're look at now may be happening inside the republican field, why you see some people moving up and some people clearly moving down, you may be able to get some insight into that from the other thing that they polled on in this new pbs national republican poll, other than the horse race. they polled on who do you like for the republican nominee. the horse race part of it. but then they also asked if people watched the republican debate this week on wednesday night. and among people who watched the debate they asked basically, who won? they asked who did the best job in the debate and who did the worst job in the debate? and you can use those results, the answers to those two questions, to get an overall net score for each candidate. you take all the people that said a certain candidate did the best job. subtract from that number those people who said the candidate did the worst job and you get a net overall perfo

reporters who will bring you the news. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. >>> jeb bush rescue late today, will it work. a boeing 767 explodes. more than 100 on board. an eyewitness is "outfront." a wild shootout leaving nine dead in a suburban american strip mall. an exclusive report. let's go "outfront." ♪ >> good evening, i'm erin burnett and i'm "outfront" tonight. george w. bush trying to save his brother's thrown dering campaign. you can see those pictures coming out. meeting reports and some fans. this comes as jeb bush is about to speak at a new hampshire town hall. he will be speaking and taking questions at this town hall in just moments. the biggest one tonight is will he stay in the race? if not, the change in the polls and donor race will be seismic. once again, the attack of marco rubio failed. >> marco, when you signed up with this, it's a six-year term and you should be showing up and his campaign promised that's what would happen. brianna keilar is "outfront" tonight covering jeb bush in new hampshire. what is the campaign saying tonight after that debate performa

shoulders above the rest, that is jeb bush. [applause] i am proud to say that i am cochair of the jeb bush campaign for president. we are going to make it work here in new hampshire. what we need in washington is change. runsed a washington that like what we believe here in new hampshire as republicans, and what jeb bush did in florida. he made a huge difference. he reduced taxes every year that he was governor. he grew the economy. he grew jobs. that is what we want as her publicans in this country. we want everyone to better themselves. i am proud to introduce the next president, jeb bush. [applause] chuck: would you remain standing for the pledge of allegiance. all: i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america. and to the republic for which it ,tands one nation, under god indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. bush: your endorsement is very meaningful. thank you for coming out and welcoming me. i am from florida. it is great to be in a place that honors the space program. it is really good to be here. [applause] if you think about it, america always has b

and jeb bush to show he's still a nominee and for others it was a time to take aim at media. here are some of the highlights from tonight's debate. >> where did i read this and come up with this -- >> probably, i don't know. you people write this stuff. i don't know. >> i didn't write this stuff. >> the democrats have the ultimate superpac called the mainstream media. >> i don't think it's so much about when the government orders corporation to do something. in fact, that's part of the problem. if you saw that blimp that got cut loose from maryland today. it's a perfect example of government. i mean, what we had was something the government made, basically a bag of gas that cut loose, destroyed everything in its path and left thousands of people powerless but they couldn't get rid of it because we had too much money invested in it so we had to keep it. that is our government today. we saw it in the blimp. >> we have $19 trillion in debt. we have people out of work. we have isis and al qaeda attacking us, and we're talking about fantasy football. >> would you feel more comfortable if y

book villain. ben carson, can you do math. john kasich. will you insult two people over here. jeb bush. why have your numbers fallen? how about talking about the substantive issues people care about. >> i never said is that. >> apologies i -- >> does that speak to your vetting process or judgment in any way? >> no it speaks to be the fact that -- >> [ boos ] >> wait a second. we have 19 trillion in debt. people out of work. isis and al qaeda attacking us and we're talking about fantasy football? can we stop? >> ooh we're going to talk about that. but i will admit it's hard to talk about real issues with so many candidates on stage. ten to be in fact. even director of politics at the university of virginia says maybe there is a better format out there somewhere. we'll talk to him in a moment. first to cnn's john burman with a wrap up of all last night. >> we may have a seen a generational shift last night on that debate stage. some of the younger candidate, rubio, cruz, making gains and advances at the expense of -- yes -- the moderators but also jeb bush. one stage, ten candidates, a world

latest in a live report coming up for you and talk to surrogates from the ben carson and jeb bush campaigns. developing now, relieved of duty. sources say that school resource officer caught on camera throwing a student to the floor will be fired. we are live with the latest in south carolina. >>> also ahead, the world series goes dark. what caused tv outages affecting the longest game one in world series history. >>> and the tragic family news that was kept from a royals er . >>> good morning, everyone. i'm tamron hall. one of the big questions heading into tonight's gop debate is donald trump now frazzled after ben carson took the lead in the latest national polls and in the latest four polls out of iowa. trump was pleading with voters during an appearance in iowa last night. >> most polls i'm number one. now, until iowa came along, i said every poll and then iowa, what the hell are you people doing to me? iowa, will you get your numbers up, please. i do well with the evangelicals, but evangelicals let me down. i am second. it's not like terrible. but i don't like being second. second is

and you have a bad debate and your trump, or a don debate, debate, but if you're jeb bush and you have a bad debate like tonight or it's not a great debate. you don't seem joyful. you attack rubio, it backfires. it's killer. >> no. let me answer that. >> before we continue this, i want to welcome viewers just joining us at the top of the hour. you're watching a view in the spin room. donald trump talking to some reporters. we heard from him. dana bash interviewed him a short time ago. we're going to shortly play you some of the key moments from the two-hour debate that just occurred. some of the most contention and interesting moments and important moments from tonight. that's about five minutes worth. it will give you a good sense of what occurred over this evening in case you didn't watch the debate or you went out for, i don't know, a smoke or something. i don't know if people do that anymore. >> colorado. >> let's listen to see where trump is going right now. >> no. i promote love. >> can i ask you a question about the debate. before you came out, they ripped into cnbc saying it wa

know, what do you do? >> all right, bob baer, thank you very much. >>> and next, jeb bush plunging in the polls, but still raking in the dough. more than $13 million in the last quarter alone. and the breaking news, donald trump's fund-raising numbers just coming in. yes, you thought he was self-funding his campaign. well, he took in a whole lot of money, too. we have that headline, after this. plus, ivanka trump, one of her father's closest advisers, now a major player on the campaign trail along with her brothers. can they sell trump to america? >>> and a secret bunker of missiles in iran. look at this footage. iran taunting the u.s. with video of the stash. we're going to show it to you. will president obama do anything about it? ♪ it's the final countdown! ♪ ♪ the final countdown! if you're the band europe, you love a final countdown. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. but it is not the device that is mobile, it is you. real madrid have about 450 million fans. we're trying to give them all

trump and jeb bush over the 9/11 attacks. bush took to twitter to defend his brother after trump larked out at him. in an interview that aired earlier today, stephanie rule asked trump if he could ensure the american people in times of crisis like president bush in 9/11 and trump said he has a bigger heart than all of them, much more competent and then said this. >> when you talk about george bush, say what you want, the world trade center came down during his time -- >> hold on. you can't blame george bush for that. >> he was president, okay? don't blame him or don't blame him but he was president. the world trade center came down during his reign. >> george bush jeb bush said ho for donald trump to criticize the president for 9/11. we were attacked and my brother kept us safe. jeffrey lord and cnn political analyst and correspondent mag e maggie. some might say this is a political third rail for donald trump invoking 9/11 and president bush during a republican primary but jeb bush brought it up at the republican debate arguing his brother kept the country safe and donald trump touched

variance. >> jeb bush. >> out of touch, overweighted -- overrated. >> jeb bush. >> underwhelming, underdog. fighter, underdog. >> i think he would be overshadowed. >> experienced but has a lot of baggage. >> not really qualified. anyone in the room with a strong view about jeb bush? hands in the air if you think jeb bush is a conservative? no one in the room thinks jeb bush is a conservative. mark: is anyone here familiar with jeb bush's tax plan? john: whitey think jeb bush has not caught fire more with the republican party? >> people want something new. people do not want a politician. >> he is the typical politician out of touch. >> i do not think he has asserted himself enough. >> i feel he is tepid. >> i can't believe people will get behind another bush again. >> his baggage is always going to be there. you cannot take away the good or bad of the bush administrations. but --ked both john: two is enough. >> been there, done that. >> what is the source of his appeal? >> by the polls, i don't think there is a lot of appeal. >> he knows how to work through politics. that is a bi

, don lemon. the feud between jeb bush and donald trump heating up tonight and how the george w. bush white house responded to terror threats in the days before the attacks. meanwhile, yeah, it's not all kumbaya on the democrat side. hillary clinton facing a showdown in the house this week on benghazi while vice president joe biden meets with his inner circle tonight and gets even closer to jumping in the race. then there is the snl effect. >> who do you want as president? one of these washington insiders or a guy who has one pair of clean underwear that he drys on the radiator? >> oh, will that help bernie sanders? a "saturday night live" veteran is here to weigh in. >>> let's begin with the trump/bush feud this evening. certainly showing no signs of cooling down. joining me now, kirk eichenwald, also with us new york dshg former new york police commissioner bernard carrick who was the city's top cop on that day, 9/11, 2001 and douglas brisso. gentlemen, welcome to all of you. >> thank you. >> let's begin first with the back and forth on twitter, shall we? the war of words between tr

watching. >> did they say -- >> "cnn >>> all right, thank you, anderson. everyone in washington, d.c. this is "cnn tonight." welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. gop 1, cnbc 0. was the network the loser in tonight's big debate? here to talk about it, dana bash, gloria borjer and dylan byars. hello to all of you. dana bash, i've been watching you, you've been listening to all the spin. you're in the spin room and t k talking to many of the candidates. what are they saying to you? >> well, it depends on who it is. i think probably the most interesting conversation i had tonight was with jeb bush. he had a series of moments with marco rubio that, you know, was kind of the time for jeb bush to shine and maybe knock marco rubio out of his lane, so to speak and it didn't seem to happen. jeb bush went after marco rubio pretty forcefully on the idea of him missing votes. and rubio turned it around pretty artfully. and that was certainly the sort of buzz on the internet and so forth. so when i asked jeb bush about that, i also asked in the context of what one of our friends anna novarro was saying on cnn, even she as a staunch bush supporter and a good friend of his was a little bleak tonight. listen to our conversation. >> what do you say to people not just anna but others who support you and love you an want you to be president, but are -- maybe not frustrated but are concerned you're not getting over the hump for the campaign part of it. >> anna, hang in there, girl. it's a long haul, baby. we have a few debates to go. i'm outcampaigning everybody. i'm working hard, we're raising the resources. we have the best ground games in these early states and president cain, president clinton, when she got beaten by barack obama, giuliani and a whole list of people who were leading in october a year before the primaries. and we've i'm confident to in where we are. >> now, the other issue with jeb bush, john, has been all along that he certainly has a record to talk about. what he says is a conservative record in florida that despite his name he is an outsider. he's never worked in washington. but the problem has been that even his supporters say this, that his inability to really communicate that on a national level via television, which is kind of how you have to do it when you're running for the presidency. and his answer was, i'm not running to be a performer. i'm running to be president. i think that was very telling. i told him i thought he seemed quite frustrated but he says no, he's just going to kind of keep on keeping on. i think that was certainly one of the moments that i think maybe we'll all be looking back on in the debate as a turning point perhaps for not just jeb bush but marco rubio. >> he said he's running to be president, not the entertainer in chief. i was actually surprised that he hey girled anna navorro. you also caught up with donald trump in the spin room. what did he have to say? >> there was a lot of talk about this debate, uh you know, republicans not being happy with it. jeb bush is a good example, that he didn't get as many questions as he had hoped, particularly substantive questions. because he was prepared to talk about fiscal issues, tax policy. that's what cnbc advertised the debate to be about. but trump was kind of okay with the way things went. listen to what he said. >> how are you going to get back on top in iowa. . >> all right, that's cnn dana bash. the there she is, did you get him, dana? >> you know, i didn't. you're kind of putting me on the spot. >> that's okay. >> the answer is -- the answer is no. the answer is that he -- his boss' comments are going to speak for themselves tonight. i know we played them earlier and i'm sure you'll play them later this evening. one thing i want to say about donald trump, the questionwe just played there was about iowa and the fact that he's got to get back on top. but i think that the reason why he said that he was so happy with the debate is because the name of the game for him and also for ben carson was to get out of this unscathed. and the fact is that he wasn't the center of attention. he wasn't a central theme of this debate like he has been in the past two and that's a good thing if you're donald trump trying to stay above it all right now. ? >> when he says his boss, he means his boss was critical of the debate. >> his boss is the republican -- exactly, the rnc chair, exactly. >> the questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the american people don't trust the media. >> if anything comes out of this whole thing with some of the nasty questions. >> you just named a litany and i'm not going to list them oall. >> the democrats have the ultimate soup super pac. >> i'm wearing a trump tie tonight. get over that one. >> you don't want to hear the answer, zblon. >> you used your time on something else. senator paul -- >> you're not interested in an answer. >> you people write this stuff. >> you wrote a story on ate and you had to go back and check it? >> no, i did not. >> john, do you want me to answer or do you want to answer? even in new jersey what you're doing is called rude. >>. [ booing ] >> see, they know. >> that is absolutely not true. you know that that is not right. >> all right, so dylan, this is a common conservative tactic, but that was just the tip of the iceberg. >> yeah, that was the tip of the iceberg. right, so attacking the media is a tried and true conservative tactic. it's red meat for the conservative base but look, this took it to a whole new level. cnbc and the mainstream media generally just got to hand it to itself. we vntd seen anything like this, this cycle. it's certainly called to mind some of the more robust media attacks of the 2012 cycle, but look, there's a cardinal rule about moderating a political debate. you do not make the story about you. and coming out of this debate, what everyone is talking about, at least from where i'm sitting, even more than how rubio or bush or trump or carter did, it's how badly cnbc did. i think that's the unanimous view of journalists and political strategists and certainly of the republican national committee. and i don't know if dan even needs to track down john spicer because his boss rance preibus lambasted c cnbc for their performance. >> we've got that. let's listen to it. >> i'm proud of our candidates for standing up to a pretty hostile environment. i was very disappointed in the moderators. i'm disappointed in cnbc. i thought maybe they was bring forward a pretty fair forum here tonight, but i think it was one gotcha question, one personal low flow after another. it's almost as if they tried to take the worst element, i think, of what moderators and what the media should bring to the table and all i can tell you is that while i'm proud of our candidates for pretty much sticking together, i'm very disappointed in the moderators and i'm very disappointed with cnbc. >> gror yeah borger, have you ever seen the rnc react like that after a debate? >> no, but if i was reic reice preibus i would be okay with all of this. the debate had the effect of uniting all the republicans against the media, which is something that works really, really well with the base. that's one of the reasons why donald trump didn't come out and blast the debate, even though he called some of the questions nasty during the debate. he didn't have to. it was already -- all the other candidates were doing it. rei in fce priebus was doing it. he was smart enough to know once it was over, he dependent need to carry the lead on that because other people were doing it. and soo if you're a republican and you're looking for who you want to vote for in the primary, it gaye all of these candidates an opportunity to have a mutual enemy. and i think it worked for all the candidates, in particular, i think it worked for ted cruz. it started with marco rubio, who took on the media. and then cruz carried the torch and the others followed and i think it gave cruz a terrific debate tonight. >> david, let's talk about the people up there on the stage more specifically, aside from bashing the media as a whole and cnbc in particular, who stood out to you. was it ted cruz? marco rubio, chris christie? >> all three of the guys you just mentioned had very good nights. the standout is marco rubio. i don't think we can sort of overstate how important this night was for marco rubio. i think it could be a potential dynamic shift in the race in that establishment wing where it's really been a battle between jeb bush and marco rubio. delivering a body blow to him at a very precarious time in his campaign. and rubio comes out shining. you could just see the establishment that's been worried about jeb bush just starting to gravitate towards rubio. >> do you think this is going to be the new tactic, take on the media? it started with dobd trump. it started to work where he said people are taking him out of context. he started going after the media and then ben carson started to do it. do you think that's gong to be the tactic? tonight, everyone at the debate, the entire campaign started with donald trump. do you think that's going to be the go-to tactic? >> i don't think there's any question. look, americans' trust in the media is reaching all-time lows. certainly conservative swrus on the media are not positive. it's something we'll see more of, but again, it has a shelf life. it's clear that attacking the media in addition to being a convenient strategy is also one that you use to sometimes skirt a question, circumvent a question. ted cruz complained that the moderators weren't focusing on certain issues. they asked him about the debt ceiling. that was his choice to to talk about the media. >> gor nor christie seized on this question to jeb bush about fantasy football. >> governor bush, daily fantasy sports has become a phenomenon in this country, but to play you have to assess your odds, put money at risk, wait for an outcome that's out of your control. isn't that the definition of gambling? and should the federal government treat it as much? >> first of all, i'm 7-0 in my fantasy football league. gronkowski is still going strong. i have mark tannehill as my quarterback. he was 18-19 last week. so i'm doing great. but we're not gambling. and i think this has become something that need to be looked at in terms of regulation. effectively, it's day trading without any regulation at all. >> we were talking about -- >> let me say this. we have a government involved in fantasy football? wait a second, we have $19 trillion in debt. we have people out of work, we have isis and al qaeda attacking us and we're talking about fantasy football? >> how about this? how about we get the government to do what we're supposed to be doing. secure our border, protect our people and support american values and american families. enough on fantasy football. let people play, who cares. >> it seems like christie saw this coming and he was like here's my opportunity. it was a fun moment for jeb bush. >> first of all, it was a light moment for jeb bush and that was good for him. i thought it was a great moment for chris christie who said kidding me, right? we have serious problems. and again as a republican who doesn't want to jor regulate, why do we need to do that? it was a way for him to distinguish himself from jeb bush. the problem that chris christie has, and it's kind of puzzling is that he has had some great sort of moments in these deba debates. he just doesn't get enough time and he can't build on it once he's off the debate stage. i think it's very frustrating for his cam pane. it's very frustrating for chris christie because he can sort of shine at times like this, which i would argue he did tonight. but the problem is building on it in a state like new hampshire where he's got an awful lot of competition. >> all right, stay with me everyone. when we come back, one of jeb bush's top supporters. plus debate winners and losers. the candidates come out swinging one of the main targets wasn't even on the stage tonight. how hillary clinton is reacting. bring us your aching and sleep deprived. bring us those who want to feel well rested. aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. be a morning person again with aleve pm. plan well and enjoy life... ♪ or, as we say at unitedhealthcare insurance company, go long. of course, how you plan is up to you. take healthcare. make sure you're covered for more than what just medicare pays... consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company... the only medicare supplement plans that carry the aarp name, and the ones that millions of people trust year after year. it's about having the coverage you need... plan well. enjoy life. go long. ♪ ♪ (charge music) you wouldn't hire an organist without hearing them first. charge! so why would you invest without checking brokercheck? check your broker with brokercheck. irresistible moments... ...deserve irresistibles treats. new from meow mix, with real salmon, chicken or tuna. the only treat cats ask for by name. frequent heartburn brand in america. i hope you like it spicy! get complete protection with the purple pill. the new leader in frequent heartburn. that's nexium level protection. >> sparks are flying in night's gop debate. i want speak to a man who is a jeb supporter. how do you think he did? >> good evening, good morning. i think tonight in this debate, the governor did an effective job at presenting ideas. i think what we need to notice as we go through this campaign is governor bush has been very thoughtful, very deliberative about putting real ideas in the mark place, change the fra jektry of what we see nationally. and when you have 11 people on the stage, sometimes it's very difficult to get that message out in an effective way. he's going to continue doing that on a day to day basis on the campaign trail. >> a lot of people thought he needed to take on donald trump tonight, but instead he took on marco rubio. listen to this. >> i'm a constituent of the senator and i helped him and i expected he would do constituent service which means he shows up to work. he got endorsed by the sun sentinel because he was the most talented guy in the field. ehe's a gifted politician. but marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six-year term and you should be showing up to work. literally, what sit like a french work week, you're given three days where you have to show up? you can campaign or resign and let someone else take the zwrob. >> the only reason you're doing it now is we're running for the same position and someone convinced you attacking me is going to help you. my campaign is going to be about the future of america. it's not going to be about attacking anyone else on this stage. i will continue to have tremendous admiration and respect for governor bush. i'm not running against governor bush, i'm not running against anyone on the stage. i'm running for president. there's no way we can elect hillary clinton. >> there was a presentation where marco rubio was called the gop obama. then you have this sort of interaction tonight. is marco rubio a bigger threat to jeb's chances than trump or carson? >> i don't think the campaign looks at it that way. we have to understand the ideas matter and getting the ideas passed matters. when you look at that stage and the record of each of the vinls on that stage, jeb bush, more so than anybody on the stage has governed more conservatively than anybody else and has got things done. this country today, we have way too many issues being decided in washington, d.c. part of the reason'm working with president bush is he needs to understand there needs to be a structural reset and how we do business in this country is consistent with the constitutional frame work. when you look at banking, dodd-frank literally has transformed how we access capital, how we borrow money to buy homes and access credit lines for business. when you look at the health care context, the affordable care act has changed how he affect access. the only thing standing in the way of the renaissance across this country government in washington, d.c. the government understands that, understands that we need to reset t how we do business, the uh poer of the states. it's consistent with both federal law and the constitution. and he's speaking to it in a very thoughtful way. >> let's get back to what happened on stage and at the debate tonight. his performance. dana bash caught up with him in the spin room and asked him about his frustration. take a look. >> you see him quite frustrated. >> not frustrated. i wish i had got to answer questions on things that are on the minds of people, you know, entitlement challenges, the debt. i got fantasy sfoobl. >> he said originally that he wanted to campaign with joy in his heart, but with all respect to the candidates, he doesn't seem like he is feeling that way these days. he does seem frustrated. >> i think if you see the governor on the campaign trail, the interaction that he has with voters in the town hall settings, the informal dialogue with those voter, the unscripted moments that that presents, he's speaking from the heart. he's speaking from conviction. he's speaking from the ideas that he has on how to transform this country and how to set the trajectory in a different way. that's who he really is. what's really disappointed when you watch these debates. and tonight was particularly acute. i was in the audience. there was booing that took place as we went to break with respect to the inquiz tor yal type of attitude that the moderators represented. it's almost like it's political entertainment. we have very serious issues as a country we need to deal with. we need to make sure we have serious ideas on how we fix a multitude of things. and the governor is doing that rather consistently. i think this type of format at times doesn't feed that because of the political entertainment that drives it. >> i appreciate you joining me this evening per this morning. whatever the case may be. who is the winner after tonight's debate? 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who was weak tonight, that's my first question to you. >> i think jeb bush clearly needed a breakout performance tonight to reverse the traje trajectory he's been on for the last two weeks and i don't think he got that. the rubio folks right now, when you talk to them, they feel very strongly that that moment worked in marco rubio's favor and it didn't work for jeb bush. so i think he tended not to have a great night. i think there were a lot of folks, too. look at the two front-runners. they didn't really have any breakout moments either. they didn't command or really drive the tone and tem bow in this debate the way they have in past debates. for them, i don't think it hurt them, but they clearly didn't have the great moment of past debates. of. >> the democrats have the ultimate super pac. it's called the mainstream media. last week, hillary clinton went before a committee. she admitted, she sent e-mails to her families saying hey, this attack in benghazi was caused by benghazi-like elements. she spent over a week telling families of the victims that it was because of a video. yet the mainstream media was saying it was when she got exposed as a liar. it was the week she got exposed -- but she has her super pac helping her out, the american mainstream media. >> hillary clinton, definitely the other person up on the stage tonight. governor, what's your response? >> they attacked her clearly. she was mentioned 16 or 18 times. but here's what was interesting to me. they attacked hillary clinton, they attacked the moderators, they attacked the mainstream media. they were fighting, fighting fighting, but i don't feel like the american people were fought for. they talked about cutting the benefits for social security and medicare and medicaid. they talked about the tax cuts, but that's cutting the estate taxes or the investment income tax which, of course, is the capital gains tax, benefitting the wealthy. i feel like the average joe didn't feel they were being fought for and i think that's a problem for them. >> this is what hillary clinton tweeted at the end of the debate tonight. the picture of her at the end of the benghazi hearing last week. just sort of making a face and brushing off her shoulder. >> there's no doubt that people felt she did a good is because she sat there for 11 hours and came out looking presidential and came out looking strong and looking like she could take this battle on, she could take the battle on on behalf of everyday citizens. >> what did you make of that tweet? >> i didn't see the tweet. but hillary clinton still has a problem with the trust issue with many voters. but she also has this problem with relatability. folks don't really relate to her. she hasn't driven a car in 25 years. i don't think she really understands the problems of people in everyday america. and i think one of the things that the candidates did very well, particularly marco rubio, hukabee and john kasich. they spoke to a lot of voter anxieties about the economy. they spoke to their vision about how they want to take the economy in a different direction that's different from the last eight years that we've seen under president obama and how they wouldn't have basically a third term with hillary clinton in office. so that was one of the biggest that worked in the favor for republicans tonight. >> all right. thank you very much and also governor grant holmess. ken carson is rising in the polls but did he answer questions tonight on the economy? and can you explain why you recommend synthetic over cedar? "super food?" is that a real thing? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? ...or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. sure... ok. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern. if you have high blood pressure many cold medicines may raise your blood pressure. that's why there's coricidin® hbp. it relieves cold symptoms without raising blood pressure. so look for powerful cold medicine with a heart. coricidin® hbp. wopen up a lot of dawn. tough on grease...yet gentle. dawn helps open... something even bigger. go to facebook.com, dawn saves wildlife. >> i'm the only one on the stage that has a plan. i'm the only person in either campaign that's self-funding. i'm the only one that's cut the size of government. i'm the one on the stage and frankly both stages that has actually gone to washington. >> i'm the only guy on the stage -- everyone has an only guy, i'm the only guy this, the only guy that. i'm the only guy that has consistently fought the clinton machine. >> i'm the only guy that's going to be moderating this next panel. they tried to distinguish themselves from each other. at this debate tonight. i want to bring in the author of "i should be dead -- my life surviving politic, tv and addiction." ryan liza, washington correspondent for the new yorker. van jones, former obama administration official and karla bernstein author of "a woman in charge -- the life of hillary rodham clinton." and that's all the time we have for this particular panel. i just want to go around the horn here to see who you guys think won this debate. >> i think rubio won, cnbc lost and i'm the only guy that went fishing for eight hours and didn't catch a fish. >> bob? >> i think bob beckle is right, which is just stunning me for a second. rubio did win, had the best overall performance. i think the best moment went to ted cruz when he went after the media, turned the whole momentum of the discussion around. >> it sounds like you've been in a smoky room. >> amanda, what about you? >> i'm going to say the tea party won this debate because everyone is now talking about a cruz versus rubio matchup in the primary, two candidates who were brought to the senate with tea party support. >> van jones? >> yeah, you know, i've been saying rubio is going to break out. i think he did it tonight. but i have to say ted cruz was rightingly good tonight. it wasn't just that one moment where he had a breakout. i think he was strong overall. ted cruz is coming on now. >> i'm the only one that's going to tell you who lost because i agree with everyone on rubio winning. so i thought that rand paul and mike huckabee were basically nonentities at the debite. and everyone is talking about whether jeb is on a death watch. you have to wonder if either one of those has a case for moving on. >> and last, but certainly not least, mr. bernstein. >> i think it was a bad, bad night for jeb bush. i think it was a bad night for trump and for carson. they didn't deliver the way they were expected to. more than anything, msnbc -- i'm sorry, cnbc was really reprehensible, but we got a real look at the republican party for the first time. and their anti-government message is really picking up steam. and the democrats got to pay attention to it. they're right about the mainstream media. we in the mean stream media need to read the right wing press more. i look at it. it's a very different universe than we talk about. and there's a lot of people out there that adhere to it. >> we know ben carson is leading in iowa right now, but did he prove a grasp on the complexities of issues like the economy? >> absolutely not. he had a prime time opportunity when he was asked about his economic flan and he was very vague on the specifics saying well, it might be 10% or 15%, somewhere in there. it was a really bad exchange for cnbc as well. becky quick said i've done the math on it, it doesn't work. she didn't really back it up. ben carson says i know it does work. it was a failure on both ends, but it will have a longer term impact for ben carson. this gets into the larger narrative about him, he's very intelligent when it. co-s to medicine but that doesn't translate into politics. >> donald trump was asked about guns. let's listen. >> would you feel more comfortable if your employees brought guns to work? >> yes, i might feel more comfortable. i have a permit which is very unusual in new york, a permit to carry. and i do carry on occasion. sometimes a lot. but i like to be unpredictable so that people don't know exactly. by the way, unlike our country where we're totally predictable and the enemy, whether it's isis or anybody else, they know exactly what we're doing because we have the wrong leadership. >> that was one of the more interesting exchanges for me and how he pivoted to terror and foreign policy. >> was he his most predictable self? or do you think he deserves to be the front runner? >> he used that line about having a concealed carry permit and having that being unyao usual in new york. i know a lot of people into guns and i never heard them say i carry a lot. i didn't know exactly what that meant. the nor you watch him, the more you realize he's a typical politician in the sense that he does have a few set piece lines that he resurge tates again and again. you heard me say this on your show many times, donald trump is not going to be the republican nominee. donald trump is not going to be the republican nominee. and the only thing, you know, this story of how donald trump ends up not being the republican nominee hasn't been written out, but i think we got a little closer to seeing how it might happen with ted cruz, who had a very strong performance tonight. ted cruz has been like drafting. you sit behind the front-runner and you come out ahead around a curve. that's what he's been doing with donald trump. and he's sort of poised to pick up that trump support when trump inevitably collapses. and i think he started to see the contours of what a lot of people have been talking about. marco rubio perhaps taking over the jeb establishment plane. you start to see glimmers of that coming to be. >> you don't think donald trump is going to be the republican. but dengs you mentioned marco rubio, he said that he won. so let's take a look. >> senator rubio, you yourself have said you've had issues. you have a lack of bookkeeping still skils. you intermingled campaign money with personal money. just last year you liquid dated a $68,000 retirement fund. that cost you thousands of dollars in taxes and penalties. in terms of all of that, it raises the question of whether you have the maturity and the wisdom to lead this $17 trillion economy. what do you say? >> you just listed a litany of discredited attacks from democrats and my personal opponents. i'm not going to waste 60 seconds detailing them all. here's truth. i didn't inherit money. my dad was a bartender and my mother was a maid. they worked hard to give us a better life. i had to borrow money to go to school. >> so again, you said that he won. he immediately pivoted, you know, to his personal story. was this a winning moment for you? >> absolutely was a winning moment for marco rubio. i think h eshowed that he was able to be both firm but also relatable and likable. that question, by the way, was preposterous. it was among the more preposterous and offensive candidates that any faced all night. and there were a whole bunch to choose from, by the way. >> why is that? when he comes to dealing with finances? >> he liquid dated a retirement account that cost him a few thousand dollars? that's the kind of thing a lot of people do when they're making financial decisions for a household. this is normal stuff we're talking about. it' not like he's running up huge gambing debts in vegas and leaving his family destitute. people have seen the super fancy speedboat he bought. until they saw the photo and they said yeah, that's a nice fishing boat. it gave him an opportunity to talk about his personal story, which is very compelling. he's not riding on anybody's coat tails. he's not part of a political dynasty. he's an individual who threw his skill, which we all realize is considerable in politics, rhetorical skills are exceptional, really only matched by ted cruz on that stage. his skills are what -- that brought him to this point. he's completely self-made. his story is really the american story. it's inspiring. and i think that's what we saw. i think that will resonate with people. i hope he gets something in a bump 234 the polls, just sort of as a reward for doing so well. but i don't know. ben carson and trump didn't do a great job. but i think their numbers are going to hang pretty close to where they were. >> i'm going to try to get all the candidates in here. i want to talk about governor mike hukabee now, asked about donald trump. here it is. >> governor huckabee, you've written about the valhuge dividn values across the country. the leading republican candidate, when you look at the average of national polls right now is donald trump. when you look at him, do you see someone with the moral authority to unite the country? >> you know, there's a few questions i got, the last one i need is to give him more time. i love donald trump. he's a good man. i'm wearing a trump tie tonight. get over that one. is it made in mexico? i don't know. >> is it made in china or mexico. i have no idea. >> that's such a nasty question. but thank you, governor. >> let me tell you, donald trump would be a better president every day of the week and twice on sunday rather than hillary. i spent a lifetime in politics fighting the clinton machine. you want to talk about what we're going to be up against next year. >> what do you think? >> i think it was certainly humorous exchange, but i don't think it meant anything. look, donald trump and ben carson it's ground hog day. the closer you get to voting the more people are going to want them to be able to at least explain their position. but this is a donor debate tonight. i've been around presidential politics and donors start to get nervous right now. jeb bush's donors are nervous. they don't come out here tonight feeling very good about it. and the bush rubio thing, whoever emerges from florida between the two of them, whoever wins that state is going to go on and on to super tuesday. the other one is going to be out. he may not be out officially, but they're going to be out because they cannot afford to have two people from one state, that big a state running on through the rest of the primaries. right now, if you had to bet, you would say rubio would be pushing florida. >> that's saying jeb is going to make it to that primary. >> stand by, chris christie got fiery in this debate. going to talk about him coming up. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ geico motorcycle, great rates for great rides. advil pain relievers are used by more households than any other leading brand. to treat their aches and pains more people reach for advil. relief doesn't get any better than this. advil. can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? 40% of the streetlights in detroit, at one point, did not work. you had some blocks and you had major thoroughfares and corridors that were just totally pitch black. those things had to change. we wanted to restore our lighting system in the city. you can have the greatest dreams in the world, but unless you can finance those dreams, it doesn't happen. at the time that the bankruptcy filing was done, the public lighting authority had a hard time of finding a bank. citi did not run away from the table like some other bankers did. citi had the strength to help us go to the credit markets and raise the money. it's a brighter day in detroit. people can see better when they're out doing their tasks, young people are moving back in town, the kids are feeling safer while they walk to school. and folks are making investments and the community is moving forward. 40% of the lights were out, but they're not out for long.they're coming back. marie callender's with a crust made from scratch. because when it's cold outside, good food and good company... ...keep you warm inside. marie callender's. >> back now with my super panel. john kasich tried to make the case for experience in moderation. here it is. >> you have to pick somebody who has experience, somebody that has the know-how, the discipline. this is a man who was a managing general partner at lehman brother whence it went down the tubes and almost tookern with us, including ben and myself. i was there and watched what happened. lehman brothers started it all. he was on the board and he was a managing general partner. and just thirdly. he was so nice, he was such a nice guy. he said oh, i'm never going to attack. but then his poll numbers tanked. that's why he's on the end and he got nasty. he got nasty. >> was that enough to get voters to look at him as a moderate alternative? >> a, i don't think so. it's so sad. first of all, he's the only person on the stage who spoke remotely intelligently and compassionately about immigration, just by the way. it turns out that you've got a big voting bloc out there republicans need to repair some damage with. he's the only one even trying. i think he winds up being somebody who they look at as possibly a vp once they finish fighting this thing out. but he really has -- he does not have a constituency in his party. and let's not forget, he is very, very conservative. as much as i love this, how this guy winds up being called a moderate, when you look at his ror, it just shows how far the republican party has gone over the edge into the right wing crazy stuff. but unfortunately a guy as accomplished as him has no place in the party, except possibly a vp to repair some damage by this party with latinos and others. >>> i've heard also, too, as well that carly fiorina, this is. otentially a vice presidential run for her. she needed to prove tonight that early surge wasn't just a fluke. how do you think she did? >> i think she did well because she embraced the same issues in almost the same ways as bernie sanders did. she sounded off a warning about the wealthy, the connected, the banks, controlling america. her answer is it's leading us to socialism. but at the same time, something profound is happening when the republican party and several of its candidates, like fiorina, like cruz embrace a truly radical notion about we are burdened by plutocracy in this country. it's a problem for hillary clinton. and if one of the people is a republican nominee, it could be very difficult with this message that they're fomeanting right now. >> chris christie wasn't taking any smack from anybody. you talked about the environment and a number of things. did he prove himself even in his -- i don't want to see anger, but with his stern demeanor? >> he's got a schtick in the debate where is he does this outrage thing. he sort of gets up there and says why are we talking about this? the real issue is, whatever is on chris christie's mind. and tonight, it was about -- what was it about? gamble snlging. >> fantasy football. >> it's pretty good. i think he will get another look. he's got a little more of a moderate record in nm nj than where the republican electorate is right now, but we're pretty far away from the voting. i still think that with a few exceptions, the number of these candidates are going to go through a cycle or two of interest. and he's probably due at some point before the voting starts. >> i have to take a break. we're going to have more right after this break. thank you. the cold truth is... okay kids, let's go. no one can really fill your shoes when you're sick. alka-seltzer plus day cold & flu has three cold symptom fighters to relieve your tough symptoms. 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presidential candidates jeb bush and donald trump just escalated to a whole new level this morning. bush appeared on cnn's "state of the union" with jake tapper. he slammed trump for suggesting that his brother, president george w. bush, was partly to blame for the 9/11 attacks. bush's message trump is an actor playing the role of a candidate running for president. and he said he would not want trump to have access to the nuclear code. >> what are you objecting to about mr. trump's remarks about 9/11 and your brother? >> look, my brother responded to a crisis, and he did it as you would hope a president would do. he united the country, he organized our country and he kept is safe. and there's no denying that. the great majority of americans believe that. i don't know why he keeps bringing this up. it doesn't show that he's a serious person as it relates to being commander in chief and being the architect of a foreign policy. across the spectrum of foreign policy mr. trump talks about things as though he's still on "the "the apprentice." talking about isis should take out assad, and

long ago before the candidates took the stage last night, jeb bush's attack on marco rubio over his record-setting absences in the senate. surrogates including jeb bush have been hitting rubio for weeks calling on him to step down. and before the debate last night we had a cryptic little teaser from republican strategy exist frequent guest on the show rick wilson, "man, oh man, the dumb preplanned move of a certain campaign is about to make in the big debate is campaign-ending stupid." turns out wilson may have been exactly right. >> i mean, literally, the senate -- what is, it like a french work week? you get like three days where you have to show up? you can campaign. or just resign and let someone else take the job. >> well, it's interesting. over the last several weeks i've listened to jeb as he walked around the country and said you're modeling your campaign after john mccain, that you're going to launch a furious comeback the way he did, by fighting hard in new hampshire and places like that, carrying your own bag at the airport. you know how many votes john mccain missed when

jeb bush over the 9/11 terror attacks and the legacy of his own brother. trump saying george bush failed to protect america. >> i don't want jeb bush saying my brother kept us safe because 9/11 happened. martha: this fight is getting personal between these two men. jeb bush defending his brother and slamming trump's security credentials. >> he organized our country and he kept us safe. there is no denying that mr. trump talks about things as though he's still on the apprentice. talking about syria saying russia should take out assad and then take out isis like it was some kind of board game. bill: once again donald trump has drawn jeb bush into a battle over his brother's legacy. >> awhile ago trump goaded bush into wasting almost a week. every day jeb bush talks about his brother's legacy is a day he's not talking about why he jeb bush should be president of the united states. this is another sidetrack for the bush campaign courtesy of donald trump. bill: is this a winner? how do republican voters respond to a cad i that's criticizing another republican. >> this could backfire in

. >>> analyst are saying jeb bush's donors are in full panic mode. apparently he called his two biggest donors and said calm down mom and said. >> if you find a democrat that's for spending more than $10, i'll give them a warm kiss. why does it have to be warm? >> don't worry, jeb, it's almost over. >> here's bernie sanders as dock brown. paul ryan is going as eddie monster and jeb bush is going as former presidential candidate jeb bush. >> i don't believe them. >> that's cold. >> it's freezing. >> so cold you're having to wear that purple thing. >> okay, i won't. >> good morning, happy friday. >> it is friday. tomorrow's halloween. are the kids excited? >> very excited. we got a sumo wrestler and a green m and m in our house. what are your kids? >> katy is being a football player and yak the old try and true ninja. >> not ninja turtle. new cartoon network. >> there are actually 13 people out there our age that know exactly. i'm right there with you. with us this morning we have eugene robin son and washington anchor. good to have you both. >> mika, so much what happens in presidential politics, you have dorks and dweebs that are really smart and went the really good schools and they're trying to figure out why one candidate is losing. why sometimes the smart guys, smart women don't make it and others that have a gut instinct get it and win it. i always said when i campaigned, before the candidates said the first word, you walked in the room and looked around and said yeah, it's my crowd. what's up, y'all? how y'all doing? great. while the others are coming in like this, willie, you talked about a clip that i think kind of shows this, exactly what's happening in the republican party. >> it's a contrast between jeb bush and there was a fundraiser in georgetown in washington last night for jeb bush, a meeting, and his brother was there. george w. bush walked out of the home in georgetown, tmz cameras caught up with the former presidential. >> thank you. >> like everyone else, what is it? >> please, sir, it's a multipresident photo. >> i work on capitol hill because of you, sir. thank you very much. >> stay here. >> mr. president, thank you so much, sir. god bless you, sir. god bless you. >> mr. president, your thoughts on kanye west running for president one day. >> i use to work at the white house. >> you think he has a chance in 2020? >> thank you. >> thank you mr. president. don't put that on ebay. >> i won't, sir. >> you may not have loved him as a president but that's a different style than generally speaking. >> again, i say it, the perfect example is allegory, you know. goes over to him stiff in the middle of the debate and turns and looks at him like this and everybody in america is sitting there laughing. so much of this has to do with again. >> swagger. i don't know. >> swagger, personality. we had everybody in the media worship bill bradley for decades. he got out on the campaign trail and just couldn't carry it off. there's a lot of smart talented people that can and cannot carry it off. a lot of people saying jeb bush can't carry it off. you can't compare him to mccain. i said it yesterday. mccain is a mean, mean man in all the right ways. he's a fighter in all the right ways. like john mccain, he didn't have a lot of other cool things to do. john mccain, this is what he did. he was in public service his whole life. he was going to fight like held until the end. >> he definitely is not using the senate to run for president. he went right back to work finding other ways to fight. >> and a lot of people didn't like it but he went back and fought like held for what he believed and you got to respect a guy like that. same thing with bob dole. he lost but at the same time, he was there because he loved it and you know, gene robinson, you look at some of these candidates and again, i know you disagreed with george w. bush 99% of the time. i've said it repeatedly, i think donald trump would have had his hands full with george w. bush from the first second bush stepped on the stage. >> absolutely. back in 2000 i was editor of the style section. i said our great fashion reporter out on to the campaign trail and this is when everybody in the corridor knew that gore was going to wipe the floor with george w. bush, this guy from texas and she came back and she said you know, i think this guy bush is going to win. i said why? she said he's got that something, he's got that swagger. he's got something that gore doesn't have and sure enough he did. >> he cut her to little pieces. again, it's just so much of it may not have to do with intellectual fire power. so much of it was coming from the gut and that applies to ben carson, donald trump and bernie sanders today. >> i wonder if it's not something about being easy with who you are. george bush is somebody not easy in his own skin. i felt the same traveling with barack obama back in 2008. this was somebody who knew who he was. he was one of the most comfortable with their own president. i thought that about george bush, you get that sense about clinton and barack obama. >> to be president you have to run for president. george bush doesn't want to run for president. he would love to be president. >> it's the same thing. when you're up on the stage, that's the biggest stage for people that love the game have heard the story millions of times. joe montana 96 yards to go. a minute and a half and everybody in the huddle scared to death. montana runs out on the field and shaking. this is the biggest game in the world and biggest game ever. montana looks back and says hey, it's john candy. everybody in the huddle is like oh my god, he's not nervous. he knows he's going to win. we're going to win. they have a 92 scoring yard to win the super bowl. >> this all goes to gut. politics is so much gut. >> his argument still is i'm not a talker, i'm a doer. i was a good governor, successful governor, good record as a conservative. he doesn't get the part there's a performance aspect to us, style aspect. his entire argument is i'll fix it, i'll do it. >> you have a great record, that's great. you got to be able to communicate it effectively. nine past the hour. let's give people new national poling which shows a two person race at the top of the g.o.p. field. a roiters -- a reuters ipsos pole has donald trump at 29%. ben carson 27%. bush and rubio come in a distant third and fourth. jeb bush sought to reassure supporters and donors his campaign for president remains a strong one but a slew of negative headlines in the wake of wednesday night's debate meant bush was forced to answer questions out on the trail yesterday. questions like this one. >> the headlines say your campaign is on life support. >> it's not on life support. we have the most money, greatest organization. we're fine. there's eight more debates and ample time to do what kacandidas do. memo is clear, life is good. >> bush reportedly acknowledged his debate performance needs improvements telling them quote i realize i need to get better. political correspondent casey, you caught up with him last night. >> hey guys, you were talking about what it's like to be losing on the campaign trail. no one likes losing. mccain didn't like losing. i didn't like coming back to the senate after he lost. jeb bush doesn't like this position either i asked him how kbaktly he plans to make himself a better candidate. >> we got eight more debates and i'm going to have to do what other candidates do which is rudely erupt and not answer the questions that are asked. had lots of fun. >> no, i'm serious. jeb is for people that know him well, he's not mr. warm and fuzzy. >> he can have fun with the fact he's not having fun. i like that answer a lot. that is like the chinese wall thing. >> joe is right. this is jeb bush's sense of humor. this is the darkest version of it. people in the room in houston over the weekend talk about cutting them up together. they were fighting over whether or not his mother was a good cook and i think that the difference is between the two were on display. this comes up in the town halls. he talked about the fantasy football question he was asked during the debate and he said literally it's like, he rolled his eyes at the crowd. i can't say i've seen many politicians roll their eyes in an attempt to explain to the audience how they feel about a question. >> i can understand his frustration. >> yeah. >>. >> he was the best leader in a major office i've ever seen. not a close second. i say that of a guy. jeb taught me that you don't have to necessarily, as i say to everybody, ted cruz, i love his honesty. everybody else wanted to die virtual for a second and go back to jeb. maybe he'll want to have a beer with me. that was a great moment. jeb is a cranky guy at times. he's a walk. he's in books. he may not be able to get there because he may not be able to do what he can on the campaign trail. >> he's really frustrated by the fact he's not able to pull it off. you were talking about how he was in florida. one thing that's interesting is he brought up his loss in 94. what he learned from losing is you can't be a scary conservative. he ran far to the right in 94. 1 1998 he softened the image up. learning about the policy initiativ initiatives, that's the lessons he's bringing to the campaign. the lessons he remembers if you're too scared you lose. that's kind of the opposite of what the republican primary elect elector is looking for. he seems frustrated by the chance he would have to change and mold himself to that. >> as you look at the pole we put up, it was taken before the debate. >> up through the last night of the debate, the 20th. it was taken through the night of the debate. >> it will be interesting to see if given the reaction the pole numbers change. jeb was right near the top of the pact that's way beneath ben carson and donald trump. 20 points back. if you're jeb bush and the numbers stay somewhere in the neighborhood and within the margin of error, why would you get out of the race? why get out? if you're those three candidates and don't jump up, what do you do? >> set my hair on fire. >> the poles will really be telling. i would expect it. i actually expect donald trump to be in first, ben carson in second and marco rubio to make a big jump. i expect ted cruz to make a big jump too. we've been talking about how to media are all trump deniers. they had a screaming banner up 10 minutes. can donald trump come back and go get ahead of ben carson or something like that? can trump get in first place again? there's been a thousand poles over the past 100 days. there's a cbs pole that come out that had him behind by two points and literally the media there on cnbc was ben carson is now the leader. another pole came out that had trump up by five or six points. i don't think people should be shocked if trump is in first place again but there is no doubt, i think we all have to admit there's a built in bias for donald trump's collapse and there has been. >> people don't believe their eyes. they don't believe the numbers. donald trump has been around in basically first place since july and so one pole that shows carson ahead and everybody says oh, well, it's over. it's over. trump can't come back. he'll lose interest. he'll forget about the presidential race, whatever. it's just silly. >> again, we need to see marco rubio and ted cruz. let's see the jumps. it will be fascinating. they'll probably jump the national poles. that's going to be telling. i always love talking to my friends across the world. you don't have to actually interact with me day in and day out. >> yeah. >> they actually like you, joe. >> it makes it hard in my case i found in particular. don't want to talk about isis but what the hell is going on in your country? their minds are blown by trump and carson. >> it reminds me a little bit of the sarah palin time. >> that's the state of donald trump for us. >> wow, it's fantastic. >> why do good girls like bad boys? >> exactly. >> richard haas went around around these were high level meetings and he said he couldn't get through a single meeting because everybody's like trump, tell us about trump. >> think about the dinner at the white house, trump, trump, truch. >> casey, thank you so much. still ahead on morning joe, chris christie turns a strong debate performance. new york times tells him it's time. >> did you see this? they have been so shamefully bias on this whole bridge thing and now he has a great debate performance and what do they say? >> get out of the race, pal. >> we need to talk -- for a minute. mayor bill de blasio joins us and he has a big announcement and we'll find out whether the mets can turn things around as well. and speaking of the world series, mike is coming back. cranky pants. >> he wasn't cranky last night. >> he was nice. >> do you think he's turned the corner? >> he was joyful. >> he was. we love mike. >> he was trying to prove me wrong. >> plus tom and from the freedom house caucus, congressman matt. why he voted for ryan as speaker when some of his colleagues didn't. >> i vote for him. >> i dominate the primaries. >> he has his costume up. >> you have the most fabulous campaig campaigns. >> we'll work on that. the storm with torrential rain is going to cause problems. looking at san antonio. flash flood warning with thunderstorms over the last couple of hours and the actual forecast map keeps the heavy rain in texas through oklahoma. let's go through the halloween forecast. as we go through the next 24-48 hours, the storm system in texas will be slowly shifting. that will make its way to louisiana with heavier rain amounts. the pacific northwest not pretty seattle to portland. that's the areas you have to deal with bad rainfall. as far as halloween is going to go, halloween night especially, that's what we're going to be watching. then northward chicago to st. louis, around the memphis area a little bit of rain for trick or treating. this is halloween evening and pacific northwest. saturday night into sunday morning we shift the clocks. the rain will be in the southeast. the bottom line, today oklahoma and texas the worst weather and saturday pushing into the louisiana and light rain to chicago. for the east coast, what a fantastic holiday weekend. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. >>> it is 26 past the hour on this friday. they're discussing ways to alter what's been regarded as a dysfunctional debate process. the rmc not invited. political reports that top aids to at least half a dozen of candidates have been discussing amongst themselves how the debate should be structured. the site reports the weekend gathering should be organized. here's carson talking about his disappointment with the debates yesterday in colorado. >> i asked my staff to reach out to the other campaigns to talk about a change in format. specific things we're looking for are first of all, moderators interested in actually getting the facts and got cha questions and we're looking for an opportunity to explain what your program is, what your fe loss if i for leadership is and be questioned about it. >> yeah, i'm totally with him there. >> the moderators, again, we don't need to name their names anymore. we've named them enough here. over the course of all the debates, other than anderson cooper and the democratic debate, they tried to make it about themselves. if i were a candidate, i got to say it. the opening question where you had a reporter talking about your policies that suck so bad you have just as much chance of flapping your wings and flying off like a bird, it sets the tone for the whole debate. it's like these people are trying to be stars or something. >> if i can add. >> why would a candidate put up with that? >> you have to treat the front runner like the front runner and if you have some opinion about that front runner, ask the front runner questions that are legitimate journalistic questions about the policy. the truth will come out. instead, what we saw happen several times now in several debates is a narrative about the immediamedia being either not f bias, or grubby and kind of like not interested in the right things. >> they're making about themselves not the candidates. >> from the point of view of someone moderating these debates, you don't want people to say the day after you can just throw softballs at them. you want to be tough and hold them accountable. that said you have so many candidates and moderators there's just a weird randomness to all these debates. i don't know how fantasy football gambling got in there. off the wall question to ask. what's interesting to me is ben carson is showing leadership which is interesting. >> ben carson and donald trump have been trying to say back off, we have got to do this right and willie, before we go to the next story, it seems to me the process itself and some of the problems that the moderators have had have played into a narrative that there's bias and i don't think this is true but that everybody asking all the questions and all these debates would never vote in a republican primary. we can't have moderators you don't feel a sense of balance. >> listen, if that were the test, we would never have any of the other debates again. i'm not being a jerk. you know like 90% of the people in our business vote for democrats and democratic primaries. >> there should be more of an effort to have respect. >> and there is. i never once said, talking about anders anderson, i've never seen him at tea party meetings but anderson played it straight and gjim war played it straight. i'm afraid this is the prime time cable news culture sneaking into our debates. this is not something we've had a problem with in the past. >> it can be done. anderson cooper and jake as well. they didn't bring that to the table. they asked direct questions and were well prepared for follow up. in anderson's case you only had five people on the stage and it's easier to control that. >> remember, we have jake. that's a perfect example. i'm going to assume he's a democrat. i assume anybody in media other than me is a democrat. jake plays it straight. he does not make it about himself. i've never seen him make it about himself. it's like brian williams. brian did debates with tim. straight down the middle. he's a big democrat. big liberal. you know what, that kind of made him even tougher on democrats because tim always wanted to be extra fair. >> richard haas when he was tweeting out yesterday morning was right. this was meant to be a debate about the economy and the t.t.p. never came up once. that was the problem with the debate. they could have had a really good discussion about some of the most critical issues facing american voters and didn't get to them. at least with the democrat's debate, i felt it was an extensive debate. >> what about the debt ceiling? ben carson, nobody asked ben carson why he didn't think the debt ceiling should be raised. you're not going to ask that question. >> that's the news of the day. >> maybe ben has a good answer to that if you ask me. i would say no, i wouldn't raise the debt ceiling until you did one, two, three, four. >> i think the biggest thing failing the moderators, candidate complain they've been asked got cha questions when they've been asked tough questions. we should watch for some of the bashing of the media but the failure in the debate was not getting to the substancive issues. >> martha burke. >> and hoodie. >> governor chris christie was greeted from the new york times with calls to resign from the campaign anyway. the new york times editorial. >> what the hell. >> it's that time when candidates lacking money are starting to go back to their plows. chris christie should join them. while he talks tough to empty rooms, trenton is running on autopilot. they stated the george washington bridge scandal. >> are you serious? >> still on that one. >> and they referred to his low pole numbers. governor christie responded on twitter writing i can't read the article because i don't have a subscription but i can tell you this, i'm not going anywhere. >> what is the deal? >> drop out. >> at some point. >> they need to have a meeting with people there. >> come upg, you don't have to be an economist. just back from china where the slowing economy is triggering a historic change in the decades old one child policy. that conversation and the must read opinion pages are next on morning joe. to this world ugly and messy. ideas are frightening because they threaten what is known. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. >>> up next is russia. >> you roll down the window and they throw it. >> up next is russia. a u.s. diplomat says they're rethinking its war in syria. >> yeah because half their planes are broke and their military sucks. >> last night i heard the news from washington. the russians escaped while we weren't watching them. now we got all that room. we've even got the moon. >> nbcs simmons is back from russia. that's next on morning joe. >>> it is 44 past the hour. joining us now, the director of the earth, columbia university economist doctor jeffrey sacks and nbc news correspondent. >> he lives. he's real. i can touch him. >> i thought he was only spoke on camera. >> china, things are getting so bad they're letting parents have two babies instead of one. explain that to us. >> well, they did have a huge population issue. 40 years ago they said we can't continue to have this massive extensive population. >> stabilization of the population said okay, we have done what we were out to do which was not to reach 2 billion, 3 billion people. >> jeffrey, i've been saying for five years, everybody said china is going to take us over and have 10% profit. it's a bubble. >> china's still is economy over the next 30 years, right. >> china is the same size as the u.s. economy. there's four times more people. per person there's much more core than the average american. this is a huge, huge economy. it's a huge power in the world and it's not going away. >> it's just slowed down. they've e mernled and while you're emerging you have faster growth but eventually it levels out, right. >> right. they haven't levelled out. we're growing it to 1.5% according to the last quarter, they're growing at near 7%. >> about 3.5 then. >> a little more than that. >> putin a fascinating character. fascinating in the worst term. but they've got a possibly -- here. half of their planes don't fly. you're starting to see iranians and russians getting shot at out there. >> it's the same lesson americans in the west learn. >> i had an interesting conversation with one russian politician who said we completely support the moves in syria because you have an ocean between you and isis. we are hundreds of miles away from isis. >> frankly, there is no solution without russia, united states, iran, saudi arabia, turkey actually agreeing on something. so the idea which the u.s. has pursued we're going to over throw isad and that's going to be asolution has turned out to be a complete disaster. >> we'll choose the government, russia said no thank you. that's our allie and in the meantime, there's been chaos that's been the result of this. >> is the u.n. capable of doing that though? do they know what the held they're doing? what's their job if it's not going to stop this? >> in this case the u.n. means the security counsel and the security counsel means russia and the united states agreeing on the strategy. to my mind we're getting closer to realizing that's the way we have to go. >> and secretary kerry, a visceral description of trying to. >> your conversations you were having in russia, you mentioned there was some public dissatisfaction be the way the campaign has been carried out. do you see any chance of the russian public starting to put pressure on president putin to restrain action, to limit action in syria or not? you wouldn't go that far? >> the answer is no now. despite the economy and all that, nothing's changing. everyone's against us. therefore, we'll support our leader more. the economy damages putin. being no doubt, it is very, very difficult there. putin himself will know he needs to be watching that. >> jeffrey, let's talk about this debt deal. it's one of my great irritants. when you have a deal like this, oh people in washington are being responsible. actually, no, they're not. the debt is going to go up a couple trillion dollars. $80 billion more in spending. they busted the spending caps. it's a cheap way of having to make a difficult decision. here we are. >> this is just to say we're not going to do much on anything until the next demonstration. >> the debt keeps going up. they don't touch entitlement reform. >> these actually were small adjustments compared to an $18 trillion economy. what they're saying is let's put aside big issues, this is the end of the administration. we'll have a new president and we'll talk about new things afterwards. in the meantime, we're not going to go to some artificially made crisis. >> coming up, bill de blasio is here. we're going to ask him about the race. plus big apple politics and on tuesday, we're going to have to first ever joint interview with charles and david coke. it's part of a special edition of morning joe. we'll be live from wichita state university. one year out from the 2016 presidential election. we'll be right back with much more morning joe. ♪ the way i see it, you have two choices; the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. so, let's try this again. what's in your wallet? and i'm still struggling with my diabetes. i do my best to manage. but it's hard to keep up with it. your body and your diabetes change over time. your treatment plan may too. know your options. once-daily toujeo® is a long-acting insulin from the makers of lantus®. it releases slowly to provide consistent insulin levels for a full 24 hours. toujeo® also provides proven full 24-hour blood sugar control and significant a1c 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woman makes dynamite. let me say something about those beans as well. moving on. governor, during birth, how do babies exit the mother's body? >> so the babies come out somehow but i got to think how. there was a way they moved from the interior up into the uvula. can i help you? i don't like how she stars. i think it's super creepy and i can say where babies came from without you blinking at me. have fun in staring class. >> can we just play more of that? >> oh my gosh, it's beautiful. >> can i help you? >> the cdc and washington post still with us. joining the conversation managing editor of bloomberg politics and nbc political analyst former democratic congressman harold ford. >> i think we put that as number two. >> that is really funny. this is going to be it. >> so reuters, before we give you the numbers, this goes through the night of the debate. the last night they were in the film was the night of the debate. >> the new national poling shows a two person race at the top of the field. donald trump and ben carson in a statistical tie for first place. trump is at 29%. carson is inside the margin of error 27%. jeb bush and marco rubio come in a distant third and fourth place. >> let's talk about not in the field joining the debate but we're going to see these numbers change and i'll say it. you and mika and i and willie and people around the table are some of the only ones who say donald trump had a shot several months ago. why don't you tell us what needs to happen to those numbers for the candidates. >> you have to move up in the first -- marco rubio and ted cruz who everybody thought had the best debate, do they move up in state poles? coming up, there's a lot of state poles. let's see what happens. trump and carson still have more than half the vote and they're both doing pretty well. they both had descent debates. i don't think they're going to lose any supporters off the debate. i'm a lonely voice is saying i don't count jeb bush out. there's four established candidates now and none of them are dominating. marco rubio, if the e welcolect made up of democrats, marco would be the next president of the united states. that's not significant. he'll raise money off the col n columnist. some think i have something against marco. i don't. i have a problem with barack obama doing what he did and i think a lot of his problems is because he got elected and immediately started running for president. marco rubio to me, he's barack obama. in fact, the guy actually bragged that barack obama missed votes with him. i'm kind of with you. that is what state does marco win. take that. maybe he said the right pund nts and democrats. maybe they'll influence enough conservatives to help marco. it does come down to marco, ted cruz and possibly chris christie for the establishment. >> take john kasich out. >> i don't think john's out. >> of the four established candidates, two of them are performing well. i don't think kasich is performing as well as he needs to. >> he changed his tone. he is angry. christie needs a new projecture. rubio doesn't except he needs to voters to like him as much as the pund nts. >> if marco doesn't jump in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina. >> he's really organized in iowa. is marco? >> no, he's not organized in any of the states. iowa is one that matters the most. >> what about new hampshire? >> he's better than iowa but no. that's part of why he struggles to win in earlier states. >> what about ted cruz, does he have organization in iowa and new hampshire? >> he is the only one with the money and momentum and plan to get delegates into march particularly in the southern states and the territories. ted cruz's team has money and a sense of this is a delegate fight. >> it is hard to find people, hard to find a movement and people who are excited about the notion of look at the last three guys that won. all three of them when they ran people saw their narrative, excitement, possibility. >> what about donald trump, how organized is he? >> these national poles mean nothing right now. >> if you bring 10,000, 15,000 people in in any of these states, you'll win. >> what's interesting is a couple of days ago you had a cbs pole. steve pointed out that 80 percent of ben carson's people said we can change candidates. we're not sure who we're voting for. 65% of donald trump's people said we will never change. i just wonder if the media narrative is wrong and you've got it backwards. people are just using donald trump as an outlet and going to move on. i don't think that's the truth. i think right now, it's ben carson who gets the numbers where the people are wondering around and right now, he's the none of the above candidate. >> if donald trump holds those numbers which it appears he can. i think you have to take him seriously. he's been ahead for so long. too, the field remains crowded. >> second, jeb bush has to pay attention and be nice to carson. three, if you're chris christie, john kasich, marco rubio, you want to do the same things. you want to figure out how you have a breakout moment in the coming weeks. >> it's interesting. i was talking about anderson last night. can donald trump over take ben carson when trump's won a thousand poles and carson won one. they also had a focus group. it group. it's interesting. all the media is talking about rubio and ted cruz. all they're talking about is ben carson and donald trump. carson lost a few of his supporters to donald trump in this focus group. >> on the debate? >> yeah. by the way, that's another thing too. i'm sorry. i got marco, again, it's not personal. i'm tired of hearing democratindemocrats and media people tell me how great marco is. it reminds me of john mccain. i get sick and tired of reading new york times editorials talking about how great john mccain was and i just felt like after what i was saying, thank you very much, we republicans will take care of our own primary. you have a huge media narrative and focus groups talking about ben carson and donald trump. >> he had a good night. go to south carolina, domd trump is dominate. we're in our first three states. if they don't do well, they don't have to win but if they don't do well and are getting whipped, they're going to be gone. the national poles are nice. let's look at those states. you still have two guys dominating. >> i agree. >> last night donald trump spoke to another packed room. this one in sparks nevada and took on everything from the president's policy to losing american jobs over seas to his fellow republican candidates. >> so who saw the debate last night? great book. and who won the debate? we did well. remember what i said about rubio. everyone said you're wrong. i get no credit for this stuff. i said they don't like each other. last night the heat came out. i told you a lot of anger, hatred between those. here i am exposing yourself on television and fully with those guys and no respect. you have to say you do respect them. >> with the highest tax country in the world and that's why, today it was announced i just had it here. who knows? maybe it's a rumor. i don't think it's a rumor. rumors turn out to be true. they never turn out to be true. women, do they ever turn out to be true? never right. never. israel is safe with this one. safe. they don't know what happened. they have a president who they actually think obama hates israel. i think he does. this pack is so big for israel, so dangerous, we'll save, i think israel honestly, i think israel is in a massive amount of trouble because of the agreement. i'm so glad you mentioned that. nothing, nothing bad is going to happen to israel. >> they would go over and make their legal home. >> yeah. >> that's true. >> gene, help us with your friend. tell us what happened there. by the way, did you see that room just packed with people? >> did you see the room? the energy and excitement. we showed jeb's wake in new hampshire and then i'm not being mean. i'm telling the truth. >> those people are with them. look back at the reuter's pole. you got 56% for trump or carson. >>> they ain't coming back across. that's the big question. >> i think that is a big question. the question is how does marco, how does ted, i think ted can do it to marco. how do they convert and i wonder, have you noticed, is there a ceiling for marco because he's seen as a guy who supported amnesty and then he backed off of it. there's a lot of flip flopping going on with him. is that one of the reasons marco's not jumping in iowa or the early states or can we see the massive jump after the debate. >> we can still see a jump. i'm open to it. he doesn't have a natural -- in the party. we're getting to a face. do you take on trump or carson? in a normal race if the front runners are people more easily attacked, you would be strategizing. >> somebody around this table, one example of where attacking donald trump or ben carson has helped anybody. it always seems to blow up in their face and they always end up getting out of the race. >> well, it would be interesting to see what happens with the moment when donald trump attacked ben carson. i think the only thing the second tier candidates can do is try to be top of the second tier and hope that something happens in iowa or new hampshire maybe by south carolina when it starts getting too late that makes people think that donald trump and ben carson are not viable presidential candidates in the general. it's hard to see how that plays out. one of the interesting numbers out of iowa is in that kind of weird cocktail party formula that you have. how low donald trump ranks on second tier voting and if john kasich doesn't get their -- they're not going to donald truch. does that suggest he's reached a ceiling in iowa? i don't know. i don't know what mark thinks, how that plays out. >> if it weren't trump and carson, all we would be talking about trump verses carson, which would win? the winner of the second tier fight will be the nominee, i don't think that's a tro jekt ri we're honoring now. rubio, you know, is currently the hot candidate. does he have the assets to take down trump and carson and pass them in the early states? >> i don't see it now. >> aren't people thinking about who could win the general? they're not. >> poles suggest they think trump can win the general. >> everybody's thinking trump can win. republicans think trump is the likely one to win. they've talked about this. the night that ronald reagan won in 1980, they had a massive celebration in the white house because they had a bumpkin too stupid to be president. >> this is an indication of why donald trump is defying the rules. you can point to three or four issues. health ca heal health. >> next on morning joe, new york city mayor bill de blasio joins the table. he has a big announcement about the 2016 presidential race plus we'll try and find out how to mets are going to come back from two games down in the world series. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. >>> joining us the democrat ek mayor of new york city, bill de blasio. >> what's going on with the mets? let america down. >> joe, know your history. 1986 the mets were down two games and came back the win. >> you can bring up anything but 1986, okay. >> you know who i am. i can bring that up. i can bring up that history, joe, i can look it in the eyes. >> remember the lady behind home plate? the mets are going to come back. >> the mets are going to come back. this is a team of destiny. you got to believe young pitching, great balanced team now in our own coliseum. watch out. >> we're coming at you from a million fferent directions this morning, cops. how is your relationship with the cops? they were talking about your bad relationship with the cops talking about the past and your campaign and some things said in the past. the -- >> i think to we to bring the police and communities together. they serve the communities well. gun arrest up 7%. >> do you, they want to know that you understand they feel like they're undersieged and can't go out and do their job without 20 people with camera phones a lot of them shouting. >> a way to show that is through action, not just words. we support our cops. we're providing new technology and have cops in that help identify where shootings are. >> i'm asking do you understand why they feel like they are undersieged? >> absolutely. i'm saying the bottom line here is not just to say we support our police, we do. not just to say we need to bring police and community together. to back it up. >> let's break something else down. crime, new york city, just to numbers. give us the numbers straight. is crime down in new york city? >> yes, down 3% overall major crimes. shootings are down compared to last year. it's fundamental process. >> and homicides. >> homicides are up. up about 20 homicides at this point. what's the percent panel? >> it's 5%. >> look, every, that's a problem around the country. last year, i'm proud to say we had the lowest number of homicides. i take every single one of these situations personally. i have to. the commissioner goes over the numbers daily. we're making progress, he's doing a great job and we have 1,300 more cops added to the force next year. >> to national politics, we understand you have an announcement. >> i do. >> okay. >> in this country over the last year a lot has changed. >> we have to look at the election a year ago. we wouldn't talk about the tax and wealthy verses now. it really has con sal dated views and speaking forcefully on the issues. the candidate whom i believe can fundamentally address the equality effective live canada has the right vision and experience to get the job done is hillary clinton. i've seen her vision and platform develop over five months and extremely pleased with what she's put on the table and has a history of fighting issues. >> you say it's developed. has she gotten more sensitive to the plight of the poor? because the knock has been just like chuck shumer. if you're a senator from new york like chuck or hillary, a lot of people on wall street say you got to protect us. do you think hillary has evolved a bit in her thinking on income and equality over the past five months? >> i think what's missing here in this discussion is who hillary has been? when she was working on the children's defense fund working on behalf of kids especially poor kids, when she took on the health insurance companies in 93 and 94 which if you'll remember was an intense struggle, she's up against a lot of power and money and stood her ground, that's the hillary clinton i know. i give her tremendous ability to fight on the issues. >> you have said though over the past five months, she has evolved. her position on income and equality has developed. how has it developed? >> it's the important thing. i think this is happening in the entire democratic party. we have to see the whole party. the beauty of the democratic party moment verses the other party is democrats are challenging each other on positions and in general agree on an economic platform. republicans sadly and i think they should get away from this are comparing body parts and pole numbers. so i think what has happened here as you've seen with each successive speech, hillary has filled in the blanks forcefully and not just on economics on things like mass incarceration. voting rights, constitutional amendment. this is a very full sm progressive. >> i agree with you about looking at who she has been all along. do you think the problem with seeing that though has been partially her responsibility as well. >> when she first ran for senate, when she speaks from her experience and the changes we need, there is a powerful vision and authenticity there. i think what happened fairly at the beginning of the campaign a lot of candidates said look, we're going to do this in stages. i think it's very fair for people all over this country to say wait, we need to see a vision for the times we're going to achieve. the american and middle class is in crisis and been stuck. >> why do they take so long to see a message? >> i think it's fair for any candidate to have to lay it out. the demand that's obvious is candidates have to put the pieces on the table. >> you and i may disagree on a lot of issues and i think we agree on a lot of issues but i at least know where you're coming from. you're not a guy that goes out there, neither am i, that's going to support keystone one day and oppose it the next, that's going to say ttp is a gold standard one day and a couple years later go no, it's deeply flawed. you have to be a bit concerned. >> he wouldn't do it. you have to be concerned. >> you're asking the question the wrong way. the question is what you stand for. >> no. >> no, i'm saying this from the heart. what does she stand for? >> it took some real courage to come out and say this is my standard that's going to protect american workers and this package doesn't do it. >> but it was the gold standard. >> she said very is clearly that here is the standard to protect american workers and when she saw the product and the position is clear. >> no excuse you. they like to run it and you know. >> if a candidate. >> mr. mayor, i'm trying to complement you. not flip flop like this. you don't flip flop like this. are you concerned she's going to be too expedient? >> no. we're missing the forest for the trees. >> i saw her take on the health insurance companies for one year. that's who she is. we saw it with our own eyes. the nation was rivoted by it. this is what we have to understand. there's a lot of spying there, steel there, we saw that during all the hours of the benghazi. this is a very sharp progressive platform. i believe she will follow through on it. she has the ability to fool through on it. >> she definitely has the object. >> a lot of people that support bernie sanders say bill de blasio is more in line with my views than bernie sanders. look into camera three. >> where's camera three? >> say i'm supporting hillary clinton. >> i'm supporting hillary clinton -- i'm endorsing, i'm supporting hillary clinton enthusiastically because we have to take on income and equality. it's the issue of our time. we have to restore the middle class and hillary clinton knows how to do it and will get it done and has a progressive platform to speaks to the changes we need. >> it didn't explain why she would be better than bernie sanders when many of his views on health care, trade, income, equality, minimum wage are closer to yours than hers. >> it's complete. it touches also the reality of grace in our reality. >> she has the capacity. everyone's agreeing she has the capacity to be a great president. the question is who has the combination of ability and to get things done. >> let's strip it down for people. you think she is more capable of actually executing? >> i think she's the most executing. >> other than of course jim web. >> isn't that how we weigh candidates. >> wait, wait, wait. >> he has to explain ben carson. >> he's going to explain ben carson in a second. >> the ability to execute is what distinguishes her. >> i would say first it's not she came in with the sharp policies with aggressive taxation and things like pre-k and college debt and et cetera. she's also willing to say there's a problem in this country and we have to look that in the face and et cetera. we've never had a president, someone who came into office more experienced than hillary clinton. she knows how to build across the world. >> are you going to campaign for her across the country? >> absolutely. >> explain ben carson to us. >> i think this is going to be a very competitive race. i don't think anyone should assume the democratic primary or republican primary, anything is going to get settled in the near term. there's a lot to play out. i think ben carson should not be underestimated. i get very worried as a democrat when we under estimate anyone. ben carson is an impressive human being. let's face it, it's an accomplished man. his calm demeanor is something people appreciate in a time of a con ten, moment. i think they will ultimately disqualify. don't go to sleep on someone whose accomplished. >> and winning in the poles. >> and finally, answer this question. >> you said it even better a few minutes ago. i think it's important you say what is it that distinguishes him and allows him to confound pund nts and the political? >> he's the ultimate outsider. here's he's an accomplished guy in the medical field that did something not politics and washington. people shouldn't forget the public is being logical and like something that's different from what they see in washington. >> i see the poles in the last 24 hours talk about approval ratings being 41, 42, 43% and it's dipped down low. first of all, when you look at numbers like that, obviously, it concerns anybody in public office. what do you do to turn that around? what do you think right now is causing that drag? >> look, i think people have gone through a tough time economically and 46% of new yorkers are at or near the poverty level. >> i saw 42%. the acute pole has 45, 46. >> things are going up even during the show. >> you just picked up and the numbers are going like a tell thon. >> it's the morning show bump. >> oh, you dgot it. >> morning joe bump. >> thank you for being with us. >> economic times tough for new york city. >> absolutely. new york city is booming and i'm thrilled to say 177,000 new jobs, i'm proud of that. let's face it, over the last decade, people have been hurting. i think they want to see a lot more progress before they gain the confidence again. >> mayor, i'm compelled. >> let's go mets. >> let's go mets. >> thank you for the city bike rest. >> staying healthy. >> this man personally but a city bike rack in there. >> we will be right back with much 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(vo) wit runs on optimism.un on? it's what sparks ideas. moves the world forward. invest with those who see the world as unstoppable. who have the curiosity to look beyond the expected and the conviction to be in it for the long term. oppenheimerfunds believes that's the right way to invest... ...in this big, bold, beautiful world. life'asking questions........ having new experiences. are you ready? the key to a happy satisfying life is to always be curious. jibo, how are you doing? i'm great! every moment is our moment. are you enjoying this? it's been such a whirlwind. i want to get to know people and understand their ideas about everything. so you can too. >>> all right. we're already talking here. joining us tom and mike. there's a lot to talk about. we've already launched into the debate. >> let's talk about the debeat. >> the republicans are going to meet on sunday. >> tom, you've done this. you're the pro of all pros. this is no way to run a debate process. these debates have been jokes. >> we need to think this thing through. first of all, there's too many people on the stage. secondly, it's a big game of got cha both on the stage and too many moderators up there. i

two people over here? marco rubio, why don't you resign? jeb bush, why have your numbers fallen? how about talking about the substantive issues people care about? [ cheers and applause ] >> well, that may have seemed like a spontaneous outpouring fueled by the crowd's response. there were plenty of indications before the debate it was more like a preordained strategy. for example, this tweet from donald trump yesterday morning, "after a great evening and packed auditorium in iowa, i am now in colorado looking forward to what i am sure will be a very unfair debate." okay. or a pretty revealing blind item in politico's playbook yesterday that a lot of people missed. look at this. "look for the candidates to push back harder on the moderators than in previous debates. one of the debate preppers told us i think you're going to hear a lot of, well, we didn't see any of this tit for tat that time in the democrat debate." something else that was foretold long ago before the candidates took the stage last night, jeb bush's attack on marco rubio over his record-setting absences in the senate.

ground in syria. and on the campaign trail, is this the start of a shake-up for jeb bush's campaign? a senior aide is out on more to come. this is "mtp daily" live from miami, and it starts right now. >>> from the home state and hometown of two of the bigger players in the presidential race, miami, florida. we'll start with a major decision overseas. the obama administration's new strategy strays far from past statements. the ranking democrat on the armed services committee will be here in a moment. somebody who actually gets -- is asked for a lot of advice at the white house. that's jack reed. and here, what the new speaker of the house paul ryan told me about whether congress has the duty to weigh in on this decision. >>> plus, the stormy relationship between the sunshine state's republican candidates, jeb bush and marco rubio. all that is coming up. >>> but first let's hit the press box. richard engel have a lot more on the strategy behind the shift. kristin welker is at the white house where the press secretary made the announcement. hallie jackson is in iowa with marco rubio. and

me @wolfblitzer. be sure to join us right here on monday in "the situation room." in the meantime, thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. have a great weekend. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. >>> "outfront" next, boots back on the ground. the white house in an about-face announcing u.s. special forces are headed to syria to fight isis. is this the start of another ground war? plus, marco rubio leaving the campaign trail to cast his vote. >>> and a deadly shootout at a strip mall. investigators pouring over that video tonight. what do they see? we'll show you. let's go "outfront." good evening. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, the breaking news, an about-face. the white house announcing today that american forces will be deployed to syria. it's a reversal from a president who has promised there will be no combat troops in that country. up to 50 special operation forces will be headed to syria and that could be just the start. josh earnest was asked about that point today. >> so it's possible that there could be further deployments? >> well, jim, i don't want to try to predict the future here. >> leaving the door open for more deployments, a major admission since president obama and his team have promised again and again and again that u.s. forces will never go to syria. >> again, i repeat, i will not put american troops on the ground in syria. i will not pursue an open-ended action like iraq or afghanistan. >> doesn't get more direct than that. deployment to of troops to syria. barbara starr is at the pentagon. the white house says they won't have a combat mission. they are going to engage if they are under fire, though. that's combat, isn't it? >> good evening, erin. it's all supposed to start very small, as you pointed out, but here at the pentagon, behind the scenes tonight, they are already talking about the possibility indeed. the mission may grow again. president obama secretly told defense secretary ash carter weeks ago he wanted faster progress in the war against isis in both syria and iraq and to come up with a plan, a u.s. official tells cnn. now the president has ordered a small number of special of forces into northern syria to help local forces fight isis. >> the president does expect that they can have an impact in intensifying our strategy for building the capacity of local forces inside of syria to take the fight on the ground to isil. >> reporter: the teams, less than 50 troops, could include members of the army's elite delta force, green berets and navy s.e.a.l.s. their mission? to pro vvide ammunition to supplies to local and kurdish forces on the ground. the danger, they could wind up coming under fire from isis fighters. until now, the president has long said he would not put troops in combat, especially in syria. >> i do not foresee a scenario in which boots on the ground in syria -- american boots on the ground in syria would not only be good for america but also would be good for syria. >> reporter: and the white house insists that is still true. >> these forces do not have a combat mission. this is not in any way an attempt to diminish the risk that they will face or the bravery that they will need to sign to carry out these operations. >> reporter: the special operations forces are expected to be sent from erbil, iraq, across the border into this area of northern syria. the u.s. will use f-15 jets to strike targets around raqqa, the isis capital. the u.s. wants anti-u.s. forces to be able to take back the city. the top u.s. special operations commander recently underscored what the u.s. troops can provide. >> a lot of our intelligence comes from talking to people on the ground. this is a very unique capability that special forces operates for us. they are out there with the people and talk to local leaders. >> they are out there with the people. they will be talking to people on the ground but 50 special operation forces, can they be a game changer? here at the pentagon, nobody thinks it's going to go that far. a sear serious skepticism, going to raqqa, the opposition fighters being able to retake the city of raqqa, almost everyone believes it could be a long way off. >> barbara starr, thank you very much. i want to go to nick paton walsh who is near the syrian border on the turkey side. >> reporter: the theory is that they will get to the front and talk to syrian rebels working with the kurds in northern syria and give them the weapons they need and build a sense of to make the force actually meaning? particularly in the fight that barbara was talking about where they hope to push isis into the stronghold of raqqa. the syrian arab coalition, it's not really a big player in the fight against inside syria. they will be looking inside the kurds in the fight and definitely not on the mission that the u.s. is currently suggesting. yes, it could make a big change if these particular syrians, arabs, sunni who is are not the kurds also fighting isis do see progress, it could be very helpful. but it's not going to change things overnight. it may get momentum but today it was all about a message during the peace talks to say to the russians and other players at the table, we're not putting our isis strategy on hold here, we're moving forward. erin? >> nick paton walsh, thank you. you've spent a significant amount of time reporting from syria. "outfront" tonight, bob baer and dave sears. thanks very much to you. bob, why is the president doing this? >> it's an act of desperation. we've lost relevance in syria with iran and syria going in. the islamic state is not going away. the only people fighting them are the kurds and the president is worried about looking detached from the situation and he is in deed and i don't think it's getting any better. it's something of a hail mary pass but it's the best he's got. >> david, you've been on the ground. you've done these kinds of missions. is this combat? >> absolutely it's combat. anytime you're carrying a rifle, wearing body armor, it's combat. everyone on the ground is preparing for combat and it's going to happen. it's coming. >> dave, what do you say about this 50 -- so categorically, they are not going to put any troops in and now it's almost as if it's against their will. it's only 50. >> right. it's only 50. we have the best tactical capabilities in the world but it's not going to change the outcome. it's not going to change that you have no strategy that you're following up with. those 50 can do limited amounts in terms of effect. >> is this mission creep? is it 50 and then it's something else? >> yeah, exactly. he's absolutely right. 50 is not enough. we're going to need more and more. you're going to have to put air support in there, black hawks, the rest of it. and we're up in a long-term war. and i think we should admit it and come up with a strategy because we don't have one supporting the kurds limited like this only promises to draw us in without a plan. >> david, i believe your view is, it's either all or not and the all is a very different picture than what we're seeing today. what would it be if the united states really decided it was going to go into this conflict and defeat isis? >> right. what would it look like? it's a half-measure. so either get in the ring or out of the ring but decide one way or the other. it's the riskiest place to be as this middle ground where you're not committing. so you need to commit. i can't tell what you that number would be but it would be to take cities, urban warfare, you're back to the hundreds and thousands to actually root these guys out, to get rid of isil, either that or sit there and get out of it. >> bob, what would you say to that? >> i couldn't agree more. dave is absolutely right. you put in hundreds of thousands or not at all. you have to have a comprehensive political strategy, which we don't have either. this is going to end up continuously like this piecemeal into a worst catastrophe than what we have now. >> a sobering conversation but thanks you both very much. >>> bitter complaints of media bias at the last debate, our special report. >>> plus, marco rubio turning heads by turning up for a side vote. the heavy criticism of his poor attendance record getting to him. >>> and ted cruz fleshed with cash. tonight you'll meet the billionaires backing him. ty of a property is that you can create wealth through capital appreciation, and this has been denied to many south africans for generations. this is an opportunity to right that wrong. the idea was to bring capital into the affordable housing space in south africa, with a fund that offers families of modest income safe and good accommodation. citi got involved very early on and showed an enormous commitment. and that gave other investors confidence. citi's really unique, because they bring deep understanding of what's happening in africa. i really believe we only live once, and so you need to take an idea that you have and go for it. you have the opportunity to say, "i've been part of the creation of over 27,000 units of housing," and to replicate this across the entire african continent. i am totally blind. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24. learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. the markets change, at t. rowe price, our disciplined investment approach remains. we ask questions here. look for risks there. and search for opportunity everywhere. global markets may be uncertain. but you can feel confident in our investment experience... ... around the world. call a t. rowe price investment specialist, or your advisor... ...and see how we can help you find global opportunity. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. >>> tonight, the republican national committee slamming nbc news. chairman reince priebus saying that the cable network cnbc hosted a debate that was defensive and conducted in bad faith. this is an unprecedented move for republicans. brian stelter is "outfront." >> reporter: the leading gop candidates outraged over their treatment at wednesday's debate, meeting in washington on sunday night to rewrite the ground rules. among those calling for change, ben carson. >> debates are established to help the people get to know the candidates and get to know what's behind them and what their thinking process is and what their philosophy is and what it's turned into is a gotcha. >> reporter: sunday's meeting is an unheard of gathering of rivals. the campaign is united in their anger over what they call the hostile nature. >> the board fired you. why do you think we should hire you now. >> reporter: rnc chief reince priebus agreed, complaining bitterly moments after the debate ended. >> there was one gotcha question and low blows one after the other. >> reporter: charging that party bosses have failed to take their concerns to the networks. more evidence of the gop at a crossroads as politicians led by party outsiders struggle for control of the party. in an unprecedented move, aiming to control, the rnc is suspending its ties with nbc news for a february debate saying in part, i expect the media to hold a substantive debate on consequential issues of concern to the american people. cnbc did not. >> i think the bigger frustration is all of the candidates on the stage had prepared for a substantive debate. >> we had $19 trillion in debt, we have people out of work, isis and al qaeda attacking us and we're talking about fantasy football? >> reporter: now nbc news is saying they are disappointed with this development and wants to work with the republican party in order to resolve the dispute. maybe after an in-depth conversation they will all come to an agreement and the debate will continue to nbc. but i spoke with shawn spicer and he said the rnc will not hesitate to find a new debate partner if it doesn't have confidence in nbc news going forward. we're seeing tremendous fallout from the cnbc debate. >> brian, thank you. >>> and now the campaign manager for ben carson barry bennett is joining me. >> hello. >> you're one of the organizers of the meeting of the campaigns, not the rnc. whose idea was this? >> i think a lot of people had the same idea at the same time. campaigns are often at the back ends of this and we need to get closer to the front end. we all want solution to the problems that we have and not this car race, car crash stuff that's happening. >> look, a lot of people can sympathize with what you're saying. i want to drill down on a couple of points here. you called the debate unfair. i want to play a couple of the questions that dr. carson was asked so people can understand some of what was asked and here they are. >> dr. carson, in recent weeks, a number of pharmaceutical companies have been accused of profiteering for dramatically raising the prices of life-saving drugs. you have spent a lifetime in medicine. have the companies gone too far? should the government be involved in controlling the price increases? >> you said you would like to replace medicare with a system of individual savings accounts so families could cover their own expenses. obviously that would be a very controversial idea. explain how that would work, exactly. >> dr. ben carson is one of the most prominent doctors in the country. how are these questions unfair or not substantive? >> i don't think those two questions were unfair or not substantive. but costco and being gay friendly, how does that sit with you, that was outrageous and i think the audience proved it. starting off with donald trump, he's a comic book campaign, the jeb bush thing, the whole thing was just -- you know, i am not in the business of network ratings. what happened this week hurt our party's chances in the fall and it must not happen again. >> your campaign and trump campaign forced cnbc to stick to a two-hour debate. >> which they denied. >> donald trump said he got them to commit to it in a couple of minutes. it was shorter than they wanted it to be. certainly shorter than the debate here on cnn. you sib kwently said there's not enough time to talk about your plans in the debates but yet you guys are the ones who said you wanted a shorter debate. you put them in an impossible situation, didn't you? >> i don't think the american public is going to sit through six hours of this. but you can talk in-depth about three issues instead of ten issues for a short time. what if you asked everybody and gave them five minutes to talk about their tax plan or why they want to be president. or here's the idea, have the voters asking the questions. that would be great. >> shouldn't they be able to answer anything? they are going to be president of the united states. shouldn't they be able to answer any question that might be out there. i understand your point, only talk about two or three things but as a voter you want to make sure that they can answer any one or 20 or 30 of things. >> that's correct. and this is supposed to be about republican issues in a republican primary. that didn't happen. it was supposed to be about the economy and the word "job" was mentioned once. it was ridiculous. it was about getting someone to attack somebody else and make someone else look foolish. it was ridiculous. >> let me play for you what john kasich said about this. he had been critical about the questions and here's the conclusion he came to after thinking about it. >> i got a lot of time last night, right? and the questions i got asked, to me, i thought were fair. but why am i spending my time talking about moderators? i'd rather talk about balancing the budget and jobs. why is this a point of contention? >> doesn't he have a point? >> he does have a point. that's what the entire debate should have been about but it wasn't. all we're trying to do is fix the process going forward. let's hear them. we didn't hear much about them on wednesday night. >> so one thing that happened was the candidates pretty uniformly attacked the moderator. let me play a clip of what we heard on that front. here it goes. >> the questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the american people don't trust the media. this is not a cage match. >> i've got to tell you the truth, even in new jersey, what you're doing is called rude. >> i just want to thank all my colleagues here for being civil and not falling for the traps and i also want to thank the audience for being attentive and noticing the questions and noticing the answers and then there's an overwhelming push about liberal questions. one of the questioners was a reporter named rick santelli. he's credited with finding the tea party. this is hardly referred to as a super pac. >> i don't really care what the partisanship is. i care what questions they ask. why in the world would you talk about fantasy football? why would you start with donald trump and a comic book campaign? that's not respectful to the process. donald trump -- tonight, there was a poll that donald trump and ben carson is at 26%. he deserves the respect and he didn't get it and neither did we. >> appreciate your time. >> thank you. >>> "outfront" next, marco rubio leaves the campaign trail to vote. >>> and our special investigation finds two secretive men are chief donors. that's ahead. it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? ...or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. sure... ok. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. romantic moments can happen spontaneously, so why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? 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well, because rubio has missed nearly one-third of the senate votes this year, something jeb bush and "sun sentinel" newspaper has bashed him for. they say he should resign because he's not representing the people who voted for him. is the criticism taking a toll on him? >> reporter: marco rubio changing his campaign schedule today to cast a vote in the senate after facing criticism for missing votes. >> i don't like missing votes. i hate it. we do our best effort to make it. we've canceled campaign events for important votes. >> reporter: rubio is about to enter a much more period of intense scrutiny. >> i'm not worried about my finances. >> reporter: one of the lines of stacking up against him.n is - according to a leaked strategy memo, the bush's campaign goal is to paint him as a risky bet. somebody who used taxpayer funds and a candidate with no accomplishments or credible experience beyond government. a similar argument that the clinton campaign in 2008 tried to make against then senator obama. >> fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me. >> reporter: all of this as jeb bush attends concerns about his own campaign. >> it's not on life support. we have the most money and greatest organization. we're doing fine. >> reporter: having to personally convene a conference call between donors and campaign chairs, acknowledging, according to those on the call, that he did not have a great debate. >> we got eight more debates. it's going fine. >> reporter: to try to help him rebound, the campaign will launch a jeb can fix it campaign next week. first, jeb bush and marco rubio and rest of the republican field will be here in iowa together tomorrow all ten of them at a big republican cattle call. this is the first time, of course, they will all be together after the shake-up this week's debate. >> sunlen, thank you. will weatherford is joining me and host of the ben ferguson show, ben ferguson. on this issue of marco rubio, clearly it's getting to him because he canceled the event and went and voted. >> sure. >> it's not just jeb bush saying this. but why not resign? >> because i don't think he needs to. i think he was smart today to change the campaign and say, fine, you know what, i'm going to take this issue off the table because if this is all you've got to come after me, i can fix this. i'll vote more. it will not have a big impact or difference in a positive way in his campaign but certainly takes away a big negative and i think people have overreacted to this. every other person that's been in the house and senate, involved in a vice president it's normal. most voters, honestly, i don't think care about whether he misses a vote or not because they are smart enough to understand he's running for president of united states of america and that's part of what happens when you have other priorities. >> will, you are a floridian. you're a voter. you're someone marco rubio represents. is his attendance record acceptable to you? >> well, look, i'm happy he was in washington, d.c., today casting a vote against a bad budget. everybody recognized that budget wasn't good for the united states of america. i consider him a friend but i'm glad he's going to vote. i think it's important since that's what we sent him up there to do. this is not going to be about what somebody's voting record is or how often they go to vote. it's going to be about who is ready to lead the united states of america into the 21st century with the real challenges that we're facing. >> the criticism, ben, of course is that it's not just about voting. yes, others having voted. there's comparison to his voting record compared to others and jeb bush said he's always trying to get the job he doesn't have, he's never satisfied with where he is. what do you say to that? >> being younger, i've been hearing that my entire life, too. you need to wait your turn and who do you think you are? it's obvious that jeb bush has a huge problem with someone he looked as a protege but all of a sudden becoming a main man. jeb bush's campaign is in trouble right now and for him to pick out this big leaked report, let me make this clear, this was not a leaked report. this was an absolute planned report. they wanted to get the idea out there that marco rubio is not ready for this or can't handle this or doesn't vote enough and it looks desperate and i think the only person that jeb bush should be blaming right now for his poll numbers is jeb bush. marco rubio has been a better candidate and has connected with voters in a much bigger way. call it jelly or whatever you want but it's working. >> certainly there is something human about that. anybody who puts themselves in jeb bush's shoes, you can understand. >> but don't look juvenile when you're coming after this guy. i actually think is a terrible campaign move by jeb bush because it looks juvenile and it looks dirty politics. if you respect somebody else as much as he respected rubio in the past, then be classy while dealing with him and sometimes you lose to someone younger than you and rubio is young. deal with it. he's younger and people like him. >> i want to talk about that like but, first, how bush sees rubio. let me play a brief clip of this moment that's become rather definitional for these two men. >> marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six-year term. you should be showing up to work. the senate, what is it, a french work week? >> somebody has convinced you that attacking me is going to help. >> you that captures it i think, will. but it's titled "mar skco is a risky bet." they say perhaps this was mixed up during the romney vetting process. what could they be referring to, will? >> well, first of all, i had a chance to serve with governor bush and marco rubio. i know them both very well. i have nothing wrong with young people having success. i'm all for young people. >> you topped marco rubio there. >> let me just say this. i watched that debate as well. that was not a good debate for governor bush. everybody recognizes that. but here's what you should know. governor bush was a transformational leader for the state of florida. ask the 300,000 students who have school choices in florida. ask the citizens who have had $19 billion of tax cuts i'm telling you, both men have done great things in their life but governor bush was a transformational leader for the state of florida and there's no question he has the best position in the entire field. >> happy halloween to both of you. >>> "outfront" next, ted cruz's run for the white house. who are these mysterious brothers. >>> and an unknown number of people at the gunfight. nine killed. we're going to show you to this again and single out how investigators can possibly figure out who is responsible for the murders. the internet of things. what we're recommending as your consultants... the new consultants are here. it's not just big data, its bigger data. we're beta testing the new wearable interface... ♪ xerox believes finding the right solution shouldn't be so much work. by engineering a better way for people, process and technology to work together. work can work better. with xerox. i found a better deal on prescriptions. we found lower co-pays... ...and a free wellness visit. new plan...same doctor. i'm happy. it's medicare open enrollment. have you compared plans yet? it's easy at medicare.gov. or you can call 1-800-medicare. medicare open enrollment. you'll never know unless you go. i did it. you can too. ♪ >>> campaign cash is pouring in for ted cruz after his performance at the presidential debate. touting that he raised more than $1 million hours after facing off against his republican rivals. a lot of that money came from small donors but it's the big money that matters. for ted cruz, it's coming from a new generation of billionaires. kyung lah is "outfront" in tonight's money and power. >> reporter: dotting the road leading to the tiny town of cisco, texas, sits giant billboards, the newest and biggest family donor for the race to the presidency, pumping $15 million to republican ted cruz's super pac. >> whenever he sees biblical examples of how to do things, that's the way he wants to do things. >> reporter: and what wilks want, his family's and didn't allow our cameras into their service but did invite me in. in its program this week, urging parishioners to pray for public officials opposing gay marriage even naming kentucky county clerk kim davis. wilks said this. >> they are being taught gay agenda in the world. so we have to stand up and explain to them that that's not real. >> his brother dan. >> i think we need to make people aware. >> reporter: in this town of 4,000, the wilks are forklore. their expansive home tells a billionaire's fortune. small reminders that these brothers are worth $2.7 billion according to "forbes." so a $15 million political contribution, that's less than 1% of the brother's net worth. the wilks join bank rollers, two super pac conservative solutions donating 5 million backing marco rubio. right to rise usa, health care equities gave 3 million to jeb bush's super pac. univision owner donated 2 million to hillary clinton's super pac. this is presidential politics 2016 where limitless donations to super pacs in conservative towns hold sway. >> is that good or bad news for this country? >> i think it's good news. personally, we've got all kinds of influences that you can get from all different sides and anytime you've got somebody that is willing to provide and is able to provide an influence for good, it's a fantastic thing. >> this is the first election we've seen the wilks spread their financial wings. in 2008 they donated a few thousand to the rnc. this time around, they are willing to put millions in to get their beliefs into policy. >> kyung lah, thank you. these guys worth billions of dollars. >>> "outfront" next, the deadly shootout in a suburban strip mall. we're going to show this to you again so you ca see how hard it is for investigators to figure out who to charge with murder. plaque psoriasis... ...isn't it time to let the... ...real you shine... ...through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase... ...the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression... ...or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. side effects may include diarrhea, nausea, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your doctor about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. ♪ ♪ the beautiful sound of customers making the most of their united flight. power, wi-fi, and streaming entertainment. that's... seize the journey friendly. ♪ but i've managed.e crohn's disease is tough, except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. texas, standing by their investigation even though no one has been charged with murder. a warning, some of the video of the deadly mayhem is graphic. nine people were killed when rival biker clubs started shooting, police arresting 177 bikers that day and charged them with organized criminal activity. here's ed lavandera's exclusive report. >> reporter: mayhem ensues. a biker running across the patio fires a gunshot caught on camera towards the fight scene in the parking lot. he then stashes the gun. a number of cossacks bikers take cover, some sliding handguns across the ground to each other. restaurant patrons are stunned and trapped. the scene plays out in gory detail. one man is pummeled outside of the patio area. crime scene photos later show a biker's body left dead in that exact spot. this biker runs towards the camera with a bloody face. another group pulls a wounded man into the patio and appear to be trying to revive him. he's then carried away. defense attorneys say most of the bikers there that day were innocent bystanders. >> y'all are going to put us in jail? >> yeah, everybody is going to jail. >> the way they handled it with the mass incarceration of people with million dollar bonds flies in the face of justice and flies in the face of fairness. it's ridiculous. >> reporter: after it was all over, the scene was chaos. dozens of bikers had run inside the restaurant to hide in bathrooms in the twin peaks kitchen. police s.w.a.t. teams move in to round up the crowd. they are escorted out with their hands up. weapons litter the crime scene and more than 150 firearms everywhere. some even hidden in toilets. it's been more than five months since the twin weeks brawl and all of the bikers are out of jail out on bond. they were all charged with engaging in organized criminal activity but not one of them has been indicted by a grand jury yet and no one has been charged with murder. in fact, it's still not clear who killed whom. one police report says at least three officers fired into the crowd and one officer wrote he heard suppressed fire. it's likely some were hit by police bullets but ballistic reports have not been completed to determine that questions about the investigation siting a gag order but waco police have defended their actions since the beginning. >> this is a criminal element that came in here yesterday and killed people. they are not here to drink beer and eat. they came with violence in mind and were ready. >> reporter: these images tell the story. >> all these bikers started shooting. they put us in a freezer. >> reporter: it was a wild west stood out in broad daylight. >> paul, i guess the question is are they ever going to find out who is responsible? you see in the video, bikers are literally passing guns around, so if one could say that bullet goes with that gun that's owned by that guy, you don't know who shooting it. >> it's exceptionally difficult to prosecute these cases. i had a case like this with the hell's angels here in new york and these aren't social clubs. these are tough, tough gangs and many engage in criminal activity, the problem you have is with so many shots being fired, a lot of these guns are legal. for instance, we saw the gun running with wild west shots in the direction of somebody else. >> we'll find that and show that and you see him firing in the video. >> if you can nail him and i assume he has been arrested, he's going to say i was acting in self-defense, somebody was shooting at me and of course, texas is a stand your ground law so they don't have to flee. they can stand and fight or in this case run and fight. these are very, very difficult cases to prove criminally. >> so, right, because it's also the surveillance video so in the instance of the guy we actually see shooting, you'd never be able to prove someone was shooting at him first. categorically you couldn't do that. >> he of course, gets rid of his gun so you can't prove the bullet found in somebody in an autopsy came from his gun. forensics won't match up because the guns were thrown around. >> there is the fact that you hear eddie report that some of the shooting could have come, could have came from police that responded. technically speaking, it's very possible a police officer was responsible for some of the people who were killed. >> theoretically, the police guns should be traceable because if the bullet was recovered, it can be tracked back to a police gun. >> to a specific gun. >> there of course, the police aren't going to be charged with recklessness because they are acting in self-defense themselves. >> so has anyone got charged? >> yes, they can get charged. what happens is you can do rico or organized crime charges as you charge the game as a criminal organization and that's really the only way to take down a gang like this. the feds come and impose rico charges. >> very different than murder. thank you very much paul kalin. >>> up next, jeanne moos with the slow burg, a machine that answers the question no one ever asked. they speak louder. we like that. not just because we're doers. because we're changing. big things. small things. spur of the moment things. changes you'll notice. wherever you are in the world. sheraton. (ee-e-e-oh-mum-oh-weh) (hush my darling...) (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) (hush my darling...) man snoring (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) woman snoring take the roar out of snore. yet another innovation only at a sleep number store. >>> rub goldberg was a cartoonest with a strip that featured a complicated gadget that performs simple tasks like the automatic back scratcher. he has a new twist to the formula. here is jeanne moos. >> we've seen a goldberg machine featuring dogs and we've seen pea wee hermann's make breakfast. we've seen okay go turn one into music video but we haven't seen one starring a tortoise until now. cartoon's rube goldberg would be charmed by what's built as the swellest machine. >> it's my rube slowberg. next leg, ingrid the tortoise wasn't that slow after her handlers. >> put strawberry down there. >> after her flag launched the ball, ingrid has desert. next, the obstacle that brought a ball waiting at the dmv. the turnstile connected to the minute hand and what better choice for the department of motor vehicles, kanye west. >> drive slow. >> the slowest part was watching the grass grow. this segment took six weeks. >> the grass actually pushes the ball. >> it does. it was shocking. >> bob had to water the seeded soil chamber by tiny chamber to make the grass spout. >> the chamber gets flooded and grass grows. >> there were tons of edits and thum rous ta numerous takes. >> for those who say fake, i say rube goldberg was a cartoonest. >> not perfection after six weeks, three days, seven hours and two minutes, this machine slowly and intentionally missed. no hole in one but maybe a hole in wonder. jeanne moos, cnn, new york. >> pretty wonderful. all right. thanks so much for watching. have a wonderful halloween. set your dvr to record "outfront." "ac 360" with john berman starts now. >>> i'm john berman in for anderson tonight. we begin with a small number of troops but a big shift in this country's on going involvement, not just in the fight against isis but the larger horror story of the syrian civil war. today after years of saying no american boots on the ground in syria, president obama reversed course ordering several dozen special operations forces into the war zone and leaving the door open to send more. barbara starr has late details and jim accoosta working his sources. >> u.s. forces headed into syria. what will they do there? >> they will head into northern

talk about jeb bush and marko rubio. earlier this week, he said if you have to demonize or be demonized, he had to vote for trump. that's a problem for him. and what bush desperately needs to do in this debate is show that he's vigorous. that he's got a purpose for running in president and that he is not entitled and that he's got his own ways of leading the country, not just last name. for marko rubio, he makes the point that jeb bush is of yesteryear. rubio comes back and says it's time to have real change and get a new type of republican conservative with new ideas. >>> and lastly, ted cruz. going after the republican leadership almost as much as he goes after democrats. tonight, before the debate started, unvailed his plan for a flat tax. he supports abolishing the irs and is making a pivot. his campaign plans to start giving out lots more policies and solutions, having spent the last couple years in the senate talking about how he would break down what he sees as the problems in washington. a transition for cruz as he tries to make his move into the top tier. >> the debate. nicely

mark: i am mark halperin. joe: i am john heilemann. with all due respect to paul ryan, we will put you down as a maybe. happy national multi-cheese day, sports fans. the thunder neighing -- fundraising numbers are not lying. bernie sanders ain't crying. the next speaker of the house, paul ryan? >> if he decides to do it, he would be an amazing speaker. he has got to decide on his own. >> there is a good chance. >> i will not run against paul ryan. if paul ryan gets the nomination, i would support paul ryan. >> his time is now. many of us believe you will answer the call. >> i think he has gone from a hard no to he knows he has to consider it. all of us are trying to make sure he understands the he\ understands the support will be behind him if he chooses to do it. >> mitt romney's 2012 running mate in the current ways and means chairman is under pressure from all sides to run for the speakership. his answer is no, definitely not, almost certainly not. probably not. mark, does that mean he is going to definitively be the guy? mark: he might be. right now, it is the most likely option. there is a recess for 10 days. he will talk to his wife and have his first serious conversation about it. his dream job is to be chairman of ways and means. he has never wanted to be speaker. he understands most people in the party think he has no option. he has a lot of questions to deal with. can he do this job and still spend time with his kids? speaker involves raising a lot of money. would he be better at taming the conservative house conference than john boehner was? john: those are good questions. i will say two things. the first is the spectacle has me feeling like charlie rangel. i thought i would never say that. the second thing is yesterday i said this man will be speaker of the house. i still believe in the end, paul ryan cares enormously about a lot of different things, but the future of the republican party matters most to him, and in the end because of what is in his own heart he will rise to this challenge. mark: there are a lot of arguments of why he has to do it. he does not have a backup option. he loves being in wisconsin. he hates fundraising. he loves policy. he does not like schmoozing with members. there is nothing better for him than being speaker. i think he might decide to help them find another solution in the end. if you ask me, i would say there is no other alternative. everyone wants him. john: what he really likes is the survival of his party. what he does not like is the idea of the whole thing will descend into chaos and mayhem over the next year at least. mark: he is still skeptical. we will see. in a couple of minutes, we will show you what our iowa-new hampshire focus group said about rising alternative candidates in the republican race. marco rubio and ted cruz. until then, here's something to chew on. from this july until the end of september, ted cruz raised $12 million for his campaign. that is twice as much as marco rubio. neither comes close to what ben carson, $20 million. how cautionary should rubio's haul be for him given he seemed to have a good quarter otherwise? john: i think it should be very cautionary to a lot of people who think marco rubio is playing the pole position in this race. people have been telling us over the last two or three weeks they think he is the front runner in some ways. this tells you a lot of people have been underestimating ted cruz, maybe overestimating marco rubio. rubio still has a lot of momentum. you cannot dismiss that. the truth is cruz's money and hold on an important part of the republican electorate makes him stronger than many people understand. mark: cruz has a better organization in iowa. cruz's organizing in state after the first four better than rubio. cruz has a hold on a certain portion of the electorate. rubio is still looking for a constituency. the money is a reflection and metaphor for that. i think rubio's people can spin that anyway they want, but that is not a lot of money for a man who had a hot hand for a lot of the quarter. john: i did say ted cruz has an important hold on part of the electorate. we are not disagreeing. the biggest problem for cruz is he continues to not show much traction in terms of actual voters. you can raise a lot of money, but if the voters are not into you, you will not be the nominee. rubio could be an alternative to trump. cruz has not wanted to try to be an alternative to trump. he can be overshadowed by trump. i don't think that is changing anytime soon. mark: he took a shot at trump and said he would not be the nominee. john: democrats pushed the chip on the table for the first debate. hillary clinton has the most to lose. bernie sanders is not doing debate prep. joe biden will probably be at home with a bowl of pasta. martin o'malley and lincoln chafee will be in vegas. among these democrats, five on stage and one looming offstage, who has the upper hand going into tuesday night's debate? mark: i think sanders does. he will be nervous because he has never done anything at this level in his life. he is doing a rally in arizona, a rally in colorado. he is doing "meet the press." he is appearing at the "no label" event monday. i think the biggest advantage sanders has is if hillary clinton makes one mistake in the debate, she will pay for it. sanders has a bigger margin of error. that gives him the hotter hand. john: there is no doubt he has the bigger margin for error. i will say she has been on a roll for the last week. she has been emboldened and strong. the experience thing cannot be underestimated or overstated. she has done a lot of debate. she did a lot with barack obama and kicked his butt in virtually everyone in 2008. having that experience on nationally televised debate stage it will give her an advantage over sanders. mark: a lot is up to the moderators. i don't think anybody is going to gang up on anybody but hillary clinton. i can think of 17 issues she will be on the defensive on. it is hard to see where sanders will be on the defensive, pending the moderator questions. from sin city to vin city. coming up, vin weber, a friend of paul ryan, joins us after this. ♪ >> when vin weber was on our show, he made news about mitt romney. tonight we are hoping he makes news about mitt romney's running mate, paul ryan. former congressman from minnesota and friend of paul ryan joins us. thanks for joining us. your friend, paul ryan, as best everyone can tell does not want to be speaker. what do you think of the efforts from leading republicans to basically force him to take the job? vin: i completely understand why they want paul. he may be the best leader republicans have in elected office now. i think he would do a great job as speaker of the house. i would be excited about that. i think they have to be careful about overdoing the pressure on him. he does not want to do this because he likes the job he has now as chairman of the ways and means committee. the speaker's job is a fundamentally different job than writing legislation, which is what he wants to do. they have to be careful about putting excessive pressure on him. i certainly understand why they want him. he would be a great speaker. mark: sometimes people in washington panic and overreact. there seems to be a broad consensus that not only is paul ryan the best choice for speaker, but there is no other obvious choice and any other choice has more peril associated with it in terms of dealing with the fiscal crises, etc. do you agree with that analysis there is no obvious second choice even close to paul ryan? vin: that is a tough question. i do think he is the best choice. he is an extraordinary talent and the best speaker they can have. he is not the only person that can do the job. part of the reason i am uneasy about the level of pressure put on him is it has not allowed some of the other competent people like greg walden, or mac thornberry, or john kline from minnesota, any of these people who would be competent speakers, to be talked about. there are other people and could do this job. i agree paul would be the best. john: people see this as a moment of total chaos in the republican party with boehner stepping down, mccarthy stepping down. no clear speaker to be. is this bad for the republican party? make the case this is not all bad for the republican party. vin: well, you usually have some chaos before you create something good. i don't necessarily project this out for the next year or so and say it is all bad. i do think what is happening in the presidential race and in the house republican conference, although they are different phenomena, are reflective of the fact the electorate as a whole and particularly the center-right electorate does not know what it wants right now. it is unhappy with the direction of the country. it is unhappy with the leadership they have had, but they don't know exactly what they want. look at the candidacy of donald trump. he is not a conservative. he's barely a republican. yet he is rallying more republicans at the moment than anybody else. that does not say anything bad to me except we don't know exactly where we want to go. if you look at the house, that is where we are now. they did not want kevin mccarthy. they did not want john boehner. they want paul ryan today. the truth is the party does not know exactly where it wants to go. mark: is there a way for the establishment to regain the whip hand? if not, what is the future for the republican party? vin: i don't think there is going to be an establishment restoration any time in the foreseeable future. if we get a president elected, a new establishment creates itself. this is a period that will be characterized by turmoil and grassroots activism. i don't think there is a way for establishment republicans to reassert control over this process, nor do i think it is a good thing. i think you have to let it play out. mark: to finish where we started, speak directly to those who are putting too much pressure on paul ryan to take this job. what would you tell them? vin: i would say back off and let him make the decision. from what i understand, every bit of pressure and argument has been made to him from every conceivable quarter. at the end of the day, you have got to allow him to make a personal decision. he is a person of enormous integrity and humanity as well as intellect. back off. let him make this decision. you don't want him to be dragged into this job if he does not want it. mark: former minnesota congressman, leadership number, and friend of paul ryan, vin weber. congressman, thanks for joining us. when we come back, you guessed it. the last little bit of our focus groups from iowa and new hampshire touching on new candidates we have not talked about so far after this. ♪ john: and now, the thrilling conclusion of our purple strategy. simultaneous focus groups of undecided voters in iowa and new hampshire. yesterday, we showed you what they told me and mark about outsider candidates. here is what they think of the insiders, the flailing establishmentarians. >> jeb bush. >> out of touch, overrated. overrated. >> underwhelming, underdog. fighter, underdog. >> i think he would be overshadowed. >> experienced but has a lot of baggage. >> not really qualified. john: anyone in the room with a strong view about jeb bush? hands in the air if you think jeb bush is a conservative? no one in the room thinks jeb bush is a conservative. mark: is anyone here familiar with jeb bush's tax plan? john: why do you think jeb bush has not caught fire more with the republican party? >> people want something new. people do not want a politician. >> he is the typical politician out of touch. >> i do not think he has asserted himself enough. >> i feel he is tepid. >> i can't believe people will get behind another bush again. >> his baggage is always going to be there. you cannot take away the good or bad of the bush administrations. >> i liked both but -- john: two is enough. >> been there, done that. >> what is the source of his appeal? >> by the polls, i don't think there is a lot of appeal. >> he knows how to work through politics. that is a big part of being in washington. >> do you want to sit down and have a beer with him? does he seem approachable? >> chocolate milk. john: john kasich. >> i don't know much about john. >> i don't know much about john either. john: john kasich. do you know who that is? >> i don't. >> no idea. mark: anybody have three words for john kasich? anybody have strong feelings about john kasich? >> intelligent but no chance. [laughter] >> when governor kasich talks about having been chairman of the budget committee in congress and washington, two-term governor of ohio, does anybody find that appealing? three of you find that appealing. >> i think he has done a good job changing in the economy and creating jobs to an extent. here is my biggest thing. i'm sorry, guys. i'm tired of the same politicians saying the same thing over and over again and every debate is the same. we are going to do this and this, and nothing gets done. >> i think he would get caught up in the same old politics as usual. >> why don't you find him appealing? >> glorified accountant basically. >> everything he has done has not changed a thing. he has been in that game with all the accounting. he has been in the thick of it. he's part of the problem. >> chris christie? >> he is there. [laughter] >> who thinks governor christie has a good chance to win the primary? raise your hand. nobody. >> he is intelligent. i think he knows the washington game. >> chris christie? >> in-your-face. >> lost. lost touch. >> not impressive to me although he has done good work in jersey. >> passÉ. >> corrupt. >> obnoxious. >> intelligent. wildcard. >> too jersey. john: the conventional wisdom is a lot of people in our business, and politics think jeb bush can still be the republican nominee. chris christie maybe even. i saw no evidence of that in iowa and new hampshire. it was one of the biggest takeaways from these focus groups for me. mark: those are three of the four main establishment candidates left in the race. and there was very little awareness of the three of them and what they knew, they were not interested. there are tons of establishment votes to be had even in the age of the outsider. any of those three could turn it around. but as you said, focus group suggested all three are having serious problems with voters in iowa and new hampshire. the polls reflect that and the voices of the voters reflected that. john: it is most problematic for bush because we have been hearing the same thing from focus groups in the spring through the summer. we are now in the fall in iowa and new hampshire. we have not found any enthusiasm at any point this year. for a guy as famous as bush with such high expectations, it would send a chill down my spine if i were jeb bush or his people. mark: i'm not surprised kasich is not well known in iowa. in new hampshire, the super pac spent millions on ads. he has gone up and down in the polls. it is amazing the lack of awareness and lack of support for him in new hampshire. john: let's look at one less piece of video from the groups. a snippet of the alternative, on the rise candidates. >> i think he could be a good president. i think he is conservative. his command of the facts is better than other candidates running. >> what is the source of his appeal? >> his ability to cut to the core of most issues. >> senator marco rubio. >> honest, straightforward. >> young, energetic, honest, conservative. >> statesman. >> new ideas, innovative. >> i think he is young blood but inexperienced. >> how many of you have doubt that marco rubio based on his age and relative inexperience is ready to be president? about half of you. >> i think he could make a good president. but i don't think the time is right. >> i think of him almost as a better candidate for vice president. >> he wants to reposition russia as a geopolitical force. he is exploiting a vacuum this administration has left in the middle east. here is what you will see. the russians will begin to fly combat missions in the region, not just targeting isis, but to prop up assad. he is trying to replace us as the single, most important power broker in the middle east. this president is allowing it. >> what you think about that performance talking about foreign policy? >> spot on. >> clairvoyant. >> he knew that would happen. >> how many people agree with what marco rubio said? >> what he said has happened since then, so obviously he had a good handle on what was happening. >> i think it shows his understanding of foreign policy. i feel like our current administration does not have that understanding. >> is it appealing to you as a republican he is a latina? >> no. >> i would like to say i am colorblind. >> what appeals to me about him is he is the son of immigrants, the american dream i guess. when did this land go from the land of opportunity to the land of give me? i think i can agree with him on that. >> he stands up for what he believes in. he was willing to be the black sheep in his own party. >> constitutional. >> up-and-comer and has potential. >> who would you like to have dinner with most? >> ted cruz, intelligent banter. >> which of the republican candidates would best stand up to vladimir putin? >> ted cruz. >> i don't know. >> donald trump. >> marco rubio. >> it seems there's a lot of favorable ted cruz views. i would like a few people to explain why ted cruz appeals to you. >> i believe he is a person who stands on his convictions. they all say that. but he has proven he is willing to do that. >> he has argued cases before the supreme court and won. >> how many people would consider voting for ted cruz in the caucuses? every single one of you. john: mark, we talked about the rubio and cruz fundraising contrast earlier in the show. do a compare and contrast at the human level in the focus groups. mark: cruz is much stronger in iowa on a range of things. rubio had strength in iowa and new hampshire. they like some things. they are skeptical of others. i still think rubio has a fundamental problem. it is hard because he is not doing that well to play everywhere. should he focus on either iowa or new hampshire? does he continue to try in both? john: we both saw the same reaction to the rubio debate performance you saw in the clip. we talk a lot about rubio's communication skills. that is the first time i have seen tangible evidence of a group of voters who saw him give a performance, knock it out of the park, and they were wowed by it. that is something he can build on going forward. mark: he has a lot of credibility on one level. on another, there is doubt he is ready to be president. that is something trump, bush, and other candidates will harp on. to the extent rubio does rise, he will have to handle it. john: watch out for ted cruz in iowa. we will be back after this. ♪ john: on monday, we will host this show live from my favorite city, sin city. tuesday, we are hosting a special hour-long episode. we will be joined by the union chief and the former los angeles mayor. it will be like "the hangover" without the bengal tiger. mark: see you monday from vegas. have a great weekend. sayonara. ♪ we live in a pick and choose world. choose, choose, choose. but at bedtime? 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was ready for the questions and did a good job. jeb bush was a policy wog. that is what they like to do. and carly fiorina handled herself well, and made fun of herself. >> the last debate i was told i didn't smile enough. >> i was the one that said that. tonight not. ted cruz was the most conservative. the most surprising development was the lack of air time for trump. he spoke in the middle of the pack, but he didn't say much new. tomorrow, he'll be here on the factor and i'll ask him about that. joining us is charles krauthammer. >> i think the headline for me is the one for you. this is the most apalling performance by moderators. they were overreaching and getting in the way. they were able to set themselves up as a foil for the republicans. so i think it strengthened the field and made them look better. the second headline, i think, was is that trump was the first nontrump-centered debate. it wasn't about him or resolve around him. i thought trump did okay. he made no mistakes. it wasn't about him. because of that, this is the first time you've got to see this for the field. it

it panic time for jeb bush? in crisis mode, insisting his campaign isn't on life support after a dramatic and some say disastrous confrontation with his one-time protege marco rubio. >>> late developments in a massive manhunt for an arm and dangerous fugitive who opened fire on a police officer. communities on lockdown. schools shut down. tonight the fbi may be closing in. is the vaccine less effective in people who take statins? the provocative new research leaving so many asking what to do. "nightly news" begins right now. >>> this is nbc "night lu is in" with lester holt. reporting tonight from los angeles. >>> good evening. for the second time in this country in as many months, the frightening sight of smoke pouring from a burning commercial passenger plane had many fearing the worst. as it was, several of the more than 100 people aboard were injured while trying to flee a booing 767 engulfed in thick smoke after an engine burst into flames at ft. lauderdale/hollywood international airport in florida. it happened as the jet was awaiting take-off on a flight bound for venezuel