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enough about how dangerous that all could be. rachel will be back here monday night and next friday an exclusive investigation into the president's international businesses. you're going to not want to miss that one so for now good night from seoul. >>> good evening. i'm lawrence o'donnell from washington, d.c. tonight. we have much to cover from roy moore to robert mueller and michael flynn and michael flynn's son. but today, a new witness emerged in the case against roy moore. and that witness was almost as damning as the women who told their stories to "the washington post." the new witness decided to tell his story to sean hannity. >> roy moore is reported by "the washington post" to have engaged in a sexual encounter with a 14-year-old girl when he was in his 30s. >> this guy who's constantly posturing about how devout he is and how sinful everyone else is -- >> crime, corruption, immorality, abortion, sodomy, sexual perversion, sweep our land. >> roy moore insisted he is not guilty and everyone in the republican party of alabama is being excuses for his behifr. >> some gop leaders in alabama say they backed moore even if the worst was true. >> unless he can prove his innocence, the burden is now on him within the next day or so i believe he has to step down. >> john mccain and mitt romney calling moore unfit for office. >> this to me is the bannon-ization, the hannity pull of the party into the gutter. >> if this does not offend your sensibilities, what will? >> republicans need to decide if it's worse to have a democrat in the senate or a pedophile. >> i don't remember ever dating any girl without the permission of her mother. >> today, the national republican senatorial committee announced it's receivering fund raising relationship with roy moore for the special elections on december 12th because of a 14-year-old girl. and a 16-year-old girl. and a 17-year-old girl. and a 18-year-old girl. with whom roy moore had inappropriate contact when he was a 32-year-old assistant district attorney according to a report in "the washington post" based on interviews with over 30 sources in alabama. roy moore let 24 hours pass in the face of these accusations before finally raising his voice in his defense today but he still did not dare to show his face. and so, he presented himself to the safest possible forum in america to make his case. sean hannity's radio show. where sean hannity asked roy moore a series of leading questions that he never would have been allowed to ask when f he was roy moore's defense lawyer in a courtroom. sean hannity tried to help roy moore in every way he possibly could but as lawyers who represent guilty clients could tell you, he couldn't get the sound of guilty out of roy moore's voice. he denied a statutory rape allegation of leigh corfman about what moore did her when she was 14 years old. she gave a statement to a local news affiliate in alabama today stating i stand by my comments. the article is very detailed. anyone with questions should please re-read it an i want to say thank you to my friends and others who have supported me and my story. and so we'll re-read some of those accusations. her mother supported her story of meeting roy moore in the courthouse where he was an assistant district attorney. "the washington post" reported he struck up a kofrs with her and her mother and offered to watch the girl while her mother went inside for a child custody hearing. he said, oh, you don't want her to go in there and hear all that. i'll stay out here with her, says corfman's mother, nancy wells. i thought, how nice for him to want to take care of my little girl. according to "the washington post" report roy moore had other plans for her little girl. called heren the phone, set up a date. with a 14-year-old, arranged a place to pick her up where her mother wouldn't know and drove her 30 minutes to his home in the woods. leigh corfman told "washington post," quote, before long she was lie on a blanket on the floor. she remembers moore coming out with nothing on but tight white underwear and remembers that moore kissed her, took off her pants and shirt an enthat he touched her through her bra and underpants. she says that he guided her hand to his underwear and she yanked her hand back. i wasn't ready for that. i had never put my hand on a man's penis much less an erect one. she said i remember thinking i don't want to do this. i need to get out of here. that is felony punishable for at least ten years in prison and that is what roy moore deanies. roy moore claimed today that "the washington post" is completely biassed against him as it is biassed against president trump and that's why they wrote this article with that lie. but then in the very same interview roy moore used that very same article to prove that he was a good guy, he used the stories about the other little girls told in that very same article to prove that he is a good guy. >> it's a direct attack on this campaign. and it involves a 14-year-old girl which i would have never had any contact with, nothing with her mother or any courthouse or anywhere else. would i have done that. in fact, her allegations contradict the whole behavior pattern that the other -- the two of the young ladies even witnessed herself. >> so there he is saying that the behavior pattern described by the other two teenage girls in the very same article was accurate. he wants you to believe that the other two teenage girls and he doesn't want you to believe the 14-year-old girl who has accused him in effect of sexual assault and statutory, rape. okay here are the stories roy moore wants you to believe. wendy miller said she was 14 and working as a santa's helper at the mall when moore first approached her and 16 when he asked her on dates and the mother forbade and he wants you to believe he asked a 16-year-old on dates. and that he's a nice guy because he gave up. when her mother said, no. roy moore thinks that's a nice story about a good guy in alabama in 1979. roy moore wants you to believe debbie gibson, she was 17 when roy moore spoke to her high school civics class. he met her in her civics class in high school when he was speaking to the class and he asked her out on dates. and he had several dates with the girl. 32-year-old prosecutor. the girl he met in her high school civics class and he's very proud that "the washington post" reports that those dates did not go beyond kissing, that there was no sex on those dates according to "the washington post." debbie gibson said that roy moore took her to his house, read her poetry and played guitar. the same house where "the washington post" says he assaulted leigh corfman. roy moore wants you to believe the account of the 17-year-old girl dating the 32-year-old district attorney. gloria deison was a 18-year-old cheerleader when roy moore began taking her on dates that included wine, the legal drinking age in alabama at the time was 19. they met at the mall, too. gloria say that is they never had sex when she was 18 years old dating the 32-year-old prosecutor. and roy moore believes that that story means that he was a good guy. that's the whole behavior pattern you just heard roy moore talk about. now, let's listen to the part one more time where roy moore is using the other girls in the story to prove that the 14-year-old is not telling the truth. >> in fact, her allegations contradict the whole behavior pattern that the other -- the two of the young ladies even witnessed herself. >> and that is roy moore pleading guilty to the three accusations of trying to date and dating teenage girls when he was 32 years old. a 16-year-old whose mother was there to protect her daughter from roy moore, a 17-year-old he met in her high school civics class and a 18-year-old cheerleader. that's his defense. that those girls are telling the truth about roy moore. because they say he did not have sex with them. that's the truth. that's what he says is the truth. that was a very, very incriminating answer. roy moore said he didn't remember speaking at debbie's civics class but he did say he knew her. so naturally sean hannity asked if he remembered going out on dates with her. >> i don't remember specific dates. i do not. i don't remember if it was that time or later that but i do not remember her. >> you know her but did not date her ever? >> know her but i don't remember going out on dates. i knew her as a friend. if we did go out on dates and we did but i do not remember that. >> and n a courtroom if you said you don't remember if we did go out on dates when you're talking about the little girl you met in civics class when you were 32 years old, there is not a jury in america that's going to believe that you did not go out on dates. there is no man in the world who would not remember speaking to a high school civics class at age 32 and then going out on dates with one of the girls in that high school civics class. if we did go out on dates then we did. that's his testimony. and then sean hannity turned to the general idea of a 32-year-old guy dating teenage girls. >> would it be unusual for you as a 32-year-old guy to have dated a woman as young as 17? that would be a, what? 15-year difference sean hannity clearly realize there had an a problem for roy moore that just developed in that interview that roy moore did not deny dating teenage girls when he was 32. and so after the commercial, this happened. >> if you're 32 and you do date -- again, this is a difference. 17 or 18-year-old. that's pretty big gap for a pretty young girl. is that something you did when you were dating? not talking about the 14-year-old in that specific allegation. would it be normal behavior back in those days for you to date a girl that's 17 or 18? >> no. not normal. >> my daughter is 17 -- my daughter is 16 years old. if she's 17 or 18, i don't want her dating a 32-year-old. >> i wouldn't either. >> and you can say unequivocally you never dated somebody in the late teens like that when you were 32? >> would have been out of my customary behavior. that's right. >> out of my customary behavior. there's sean hannity doing everything he possibly do to guide roy moore to the correct answer and he can't get him there. can you say unequivocally that you didn't date anybody that was in their late teens like that when you were 32? and roy moore says, out of my customary behavior. thats a very different answer, a very different phrase from the word never. sean hannity knew exactly how deep a hole roy moore had dug for himself. and so he gave it one more try and he tried to put the right words into roy moore's mouth in a way that would never be allowed in a courtroom. and those were the words that roy moore had not yet said. >> in other words, you don't recall ever dating any girl that young when you were that old? >> i have said, no. >> you think that's inappropriate, too? that's what you're saying? >> inappropriate, yes. >> and so, the best roy moore's defense lawyer could get him to say today is that he does not recall dating any girl that young when he was that old. does not recall that is the roy moore defense. that was enough for republican senator mike lee who tweeted this. having read the detailed description of the indents as well as the response from judge moore and his campaign, i can no longer endorse his candidacy for the u.s. senate. and so, sean hannity established today that he believes that if roy moore dated 14-year-old when he was an assistant district attorney that he is unfit to be a senate candidate and got roy moore to agree with that principle and the best roy moore could say is that i don't recall when it came to the question of dating teenage girls that sean hannity said would make him unfit for the united states senate. i don't recall. "the washington post" reported a set of accusations that were very clear and very detailed and roy moore has denied the most important and the most criminal of those accusations. the one with the most severe penalty and then in most of his interview today he agreed to the other accusations that he tried to date and date some of those teenage girls but then finally left sean hannity with the contradiction of his own testimony when he said to sean hannity, that he did not recall dating those teenage girls. after saying that he did date those teenage girls. that was good enough for sean hannity. it was okay. he accepted that. and that is good enough for the president of the united states who is a self-confessed sexual assaulter. and it is so far as of tonight good enough for the majority leader of the united states senate mitch mcconnell who invited roy moore in to the senate, into a meeting with all of the republican members of the senate and sat down with him and said how can we help you? what can we do to help you get elected? and not one of those senators and not mitch mcconnell is dragging him back in to say what did you do with that 14-year-old girl? not one of them. but with this very specific, sharply drawn set of allegations by women coming forward to tell their stories, i don't recall is not good enough in the court of public opinion. it is not good enough in the court of basic human decency. not good enough. we'll be right back. are pretty. but while some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does. and while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. ethat's the height ofs mount everest. because each day she chooses to take the stairs. at work, at home... even on the escalator. that can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. scholl's orthotics. clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. so keep on climbing, sarah. you're killing it. dr. scholl's. born to move. it's a like, a dagger?a worm! a tiny sword? bread...breadstick? a matchstick! a lamppost! coin slot! no? uhhh... 10 seconds. a stick! a walking stick! eiffel tower, mount kilimanjaro! (ding) time! sorry, it's a tandem bicycle. what? what?! as long as sloths are slow, you can count on geico saving folks money. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. >>> i don't know miss corfman from anybody. i never talked to her, never had any contact with her. allegations of sexual misconduct with her her are completely false. i believe they're politically motivated. i believe they're brought only to stop a very successful campaign and that's what they're doing. >> joining us now david frum senior editor of the atlantic and jennifer reuben at "washington post," also with us, barbara mcquaid, former eastern district attorney, professor of law at university of michigan, also a nbc news and msnbc legal contributor. professor, i want to go to you first just on your courtroom experience and equal investigating the credibility of witnesses and jurors are told that they should use many elemented elements in evaluating the witnesses. we couldn't see roy moore's face today. that would have helped a lot. it would have helped the jury but based on what you heard today, and with reference to some of the inconsistencies that i just highlighted, what was your assessment of that as testimony? >> yeah, jurors are told supposed to use their common sense in assessing witness credibility. what i heard him say is he doesn't recall whether he dated an underage girl at the age of 14. you don't recall. maybe you don't recall what you had for dinner three weeks ago on tuesday but you don't recall whether you committed statutory rape or i guess sexual misconduct with a 14-year-old? that's not a kind of thing you don't -- you don't recall. it would be an unequivocal no it's something you haven't done. to say i don't recall says i might have. >> he's saying he's denying everything that happened with the 14-year-old. of course that's the one where if it was in the statute of limitations, the jeopardy is severe. he's saying he doesn't recall if he dated the other girls but in the earlier part of his system, he seems to be saying he did date the other girls because, you know, you should listen to them. they say we didn't have sex. >> that contradiction of i didn't date them for i did and we didn't have sex, it's one or the other. to argue in the alternative undermines his own credibility. >> i want to re-read leigh corfman's response to what roy moore said today. she said i stand by my comments. the article is very detailed. anyone with questions should please re-read it it and i want to say thank to my friends others who have supported me and my family. >> judge moore could have said, i never met her in my life. or he could have said, i met her in the courtroom. i talked to her there, yes. i was never alone with her in my life. that's not what he said. it didn't happen that way and never committed sexual misconduct with her. sexual misconduct, that's an opinion. you know? different people may have different views of what constitutes misconduct. even there, there isn't a denial. and, of course, the story is enormously credible. the thing i took away from it was how good he was that he identified people in a moment of distress, he carefully severed the girl from her mother. sent the mother -- >> practiced he was that the. >> yes. he was good. this was not a first time encounter. and so, the question i think that's hanging over the whole story is how many other leigh corfmans are there that are maybe more damaged than she was because they have more pain and will we hear from them? >> jennifer, a thing he said today saying this is a political campaign against me, i'm sure there will be more accusations that come out. he predicted it. >> wasn't that the tell? you know what was so interesting about that? there's no anger. accused of dating a 14-year-old, committing unspeakable acts, wouldn't you be indignant and furious? he's befuddled, defensive and evasive and not angry. as you say his memory that i didn't but use these people as character witnesses is, of course, bizarre. i must say this goes back to the defense that many republicans are using. which is, if it is true he cannot be in the senate. what more do they need? do they need instead of 30 witnesses, 60 witnesses? do they need 90 witnesses? what more do they need other than the witnesses who came forward on the record in "the washington post" and roy moore himself? that was enough for mike lee. why isn't it enough for donald trump? why isn't it enough for mitch mcconnell? >> barbara, mitt romney came out today and said the presumption of innocence is for courtrooms. we use a different standard coming to elective office. we're never going to know everything we need to know about candidates beyond a reasonable doubt. we have to use our judgment. and mitt romney said i believe leigh corfman. he said i believe the women. as a law professor, what is your reaction to that? the notion that we should be using the juror us present shl standard of yand reasonable doubt for political candidates? >> this is a rare scenario but i agree with mitt romney in this situation. in courts, we set a very high standard. guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. someone's liberty is at stake. we might decide to lock them up and keep them as a prisoner to punish them. this is different. do we want to elevate someone to the esteemed office of the united states senate where they have the power to make great decisions about people? different standard to apply there than the one applied to criminal defendants. >> let's listen to what republican congressman peter king said about this. >> when this case the charge is so serious and the fact that it's backed up by other women and so hideous, i would say, unless he can prove his innocence, the burden is on him within the next day or so i believe he has to step down. >> david, peter king, is it a geographic thing? you have to be a congressman from new york to think that way? >> peter king is also fighting for his own life. there's a large call political context that this seat is important in itself. only a two-year hold on the seat. but we are moving into a period in which republican control of the house and senate can conceivable. there's a lot at stake and so there's patterns here. you know, dthe dee of donald trump was much more dramatic. paul ryan suspending cooperation. this is a much more muted response. even after that, that they when donald trump did not sink beneath the waves as was expected that the republican party closed in upon him. i don't want to be cynical about this. i guess -- whether i want to or not i am cynical about it. i expect you see that the local avalanche al party is rallying to roy moore. that's already happened and the national party may not have much choice. tax reform is at stake. >> john kasich's statement, i long have opposed roy moore. the actions described make him unfit for office. the gop must not support him. he should step aside but, jennifer, it doesn't seem like the republican party has been listening much to john kasich. the report tonight indicating that the govern nor of alabama is thinking about changing the date of the election that seems to be within the governor's legal powers pushing it further down the road so that they could get rid of roy moore, install another republican candidate. >> i guess she doesn't believe him either, right? why would she need to move the election? this is the natural, logical progression of a bunch of tribalists who subsume everything, decency, a child's life to the cause of the party. to getting that marginal tax rate below 39.6%. for that it's worth putting roy moore in the senate. so this is the state of affairs. and it doesn't surprise me at all. if they're willing to take donald trump after the "access hollywood," after he used racist language of immigrants, a ban of p.o.w.s and, and, and, and and they'll accept anything. >> republican congresswoman comstock of virginia, she released a statement. she compared harvey weinstein, roger als and roy moore saying roy moore should not serve in the u.s. senate. barbara, each of the cases that congresswoman comstock cited are cases not adjudicated by courts. these are cases where if republicans chose to they can say if true. you can use that same if true defense tonight about harvey weinstein if you wanted to but i don't hear any of them doing it. >> no. i don't think so. and you know, i know that there exists in the world i suppose people that fabricate allegations but i think one of the things we are seeing is women feeling empowered suddenly to talk about their stories and realizing that people are starting to believe the stories and a lot of reasons people don't come forward with stories immediately. they feel fear. they feel shame. they feel like they're going to be dragged through the hell if they talk about their experiences. but i think we are seeing a great moment in american history where women are feeling empowered to admit the things happened to them and exposing wrongdoers and being believed so we're at a real tipping point in these kinds of cases. >> barbara, jennifer and david, thank you all for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. thank you. >>> if roy moore goes to the senate, he will have to do mandatory sexual harassment training thanks to senator amy club jar. many interesting places. i've always wanted to create those experiences for others. with my advisor's help along the way, it's finally my turn to be the host. when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise ltry align probiotic.n your digestive system? 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>> well, there's no doubt if, in fact, he somehow wins this election, which i really have faith in the people of alabama, that they will look at the other candidate doug jones when's closing in on the polls, but if he somehow ended up there the senate does have a right to look at the people who are serving. there's a right to expel senators after they're sworn in. you have to have a two thirds vote and as senator boxer pointed out, the ethics committee can look at allegations. senator mcconnell was involved in heading up some of the ethics investigation in the work that went on when senator packwood was basically kicked out of the senate because of issues where ten women had come forward and made very clear claims that he had harassed them. and so, this kind of thing has happened before. and every workplace and i remember we're just talking right now about roy moore and a bunch of, you know, people who are more famous and part of what you are seeing happen all over the country is that whether it's the shift worker or whether it's the nurse in the hospital or the teacher in the school, that workplaces have to start talking about this, put rules in place and it is the only way that you're going to see instead of candidates like roy moore that you're going to see more women in power, you are going to see people that have been really suppressed and pushed down and not been able to achieve things come forward. we have 21 women in the senate. >> i just want to double underline the point you made about senator mcconnell. i remember when he was the republican chairman, the lead republican in the senate ethics committee and it was his responsibility to bring those charges against republican senator bob packwood who was a top republican on the senate finance committee. it was an extraordinary moment. >> i knew you would remember this piece of history. >> and it was nothing partisan about it. there wasn't a partisan moment in that investigation and in that process. >> well, and i think you see some of this. you see senator lee and senator danes withdrawing their support of moore. you see mitt romney and john mccain, former candidates for president on the republican side, saying that they don't think he's fit to serve. so you see some of that. but the point is, is that he is still the candidate of the republican party of alabama. we have a very different alternative on the democratic side. and when you look at what just happened in virginia, on tuesday when the voters there including in more republican suburban areas came forward and said we don't like this kind of hate red rick they saw on the republican kand date. we don't like these kinds of words and decisiveness and we want a different -- someone else, something different. and so i think that the republican party nationally sure better look at what they have in this guy with moore. that's their candidate right now. >> and the polls that you have been citing are looking pretty good. a tie reported in one poll tonight done in the last 24 hours. roy moore, 46%. doug jones, 46%. doug jones has completely closed that gap. >> well, and it's, again, not just because of this. you also have someone, candidate in doug jones, former u.s. attorney, someone who went back in as a special prosecutor and handled that case from 1963 when those little girls were killed in that church and successfully prosecuted it. and then you just look at his record and what he stands for and the state of things in alabama where you got people without health care and you've got a situation where you like to make it easier for kids to go to college, there's a lot of god that you could do if you got someone in there like doug jones and that's why i think it's really important that as we look at the gross stories and the courage of these women to come forward and tell them that you also see the other flip side that there is another way and there is someone that will bring a positive agenda with this idea of bringing people together instead of dividing them. >> senator amy klobuchar, thank you very much for joining us tonight from minnesota. >> thank you, lawrence. >> really appreciate it. >> great to be on. >> thank you. >> thank you. >>> up next, special prosecutor robert mueller's focus on michael flynn and michael flynn's son puts the flynns in $15 million worth of trouble. ♪ ♪ you nervous? 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yeah, they saved us a ton, which gave us a little wiggle room in our budget. wish our insurance did that. then we could get a real babysitter instead of your brother. hey, welcome back. this guy... right? yes. ellen. that's my robe. you could save seven hundred eighty two dollars when liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance. >>> nbc news has reported that special prosecutor robert mueller has gathered enough evidence to bring charges in the investigation of former national security adviser michael flynn and his son. today, nbc news learned that robert mueller is investigating whether michael flynn was making secret deals with senior officials in the turkish government during the presidential transition. the nbc news report says four people familiar with the investigation said mueller's looking into whether flynn discussed in late december meeting orchestrating the return to turkey of a chief rival of the turkish president. the rival lives in the united states. additionally, three people familiar with the probe said investigators are examining whether flynn and other participants discussed a way to free turkish iranian gold trainer reza zarrab who is jailed in the u.s. flynn was offered upwards of $15 million to be paid directly or indirectly if he could complete the deal according to two sources familiar with the meeting. michael flynn was fired after just 24 days as president trump's national security adviser after firing him, president trump said this. >> general flynn is a wonderful man. i think he's been treated very, very unfairly by the media. as i call it, the fake media in many cases. >> we'll be joined by one of the reporters who's working on this breaking news report for nbc news, next. when i look in the mirror everyday. when i look in the mirror everyday. everyday, i think how fortunate i am. i think is today going to be the day, that we find a cure? i think how much i can do to help change people's lives. i may not benefit from those breakthroughs, but i'm sure going to... i'm bringing forward a treatment for alzheimer's disease, yes, in my lifetime, i will make sure. the flu, and its complications, needs to hear it. can be deadly. especially for those with a chronic medical condition. ask your health care provider for a senior flu shot. do it today. before the flu becomes an emergency. that's why a cutting edgeworld. university counts on centurylink to keep their global campus connected. and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their dealer network streamlined and nimble. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. >>> this man has served for many years. he's a general. he's -- in my opinion, a very good person. we fired him because he said something to the vice president that was not so. >> did you know that he had had -- received payments from the russian government, that he had -- >> no. >> from the turkish government? >> no. obama perhaps knew because he had clearance from the obama administration. >> you're a very good person. you're fired. joining us now is a reporter that broke the michael flynn story for nbc ainsley, national and justice reporter for nbc news, also known as betsy woodruff, politics reporter for "the daily beast." julia, this is looking like $15 million of trouble. >> well, certainly, mueller is looking into that. he wants to know if this meeting happened in december of 2016 at the meeting of 21 club just blocks away from whether flynn would have been working on trump's transition. if he agreed to this and allowed himself to be exploited as national security adviser, they are looking at possible bribery charges. this is very serious for flynn. and it is part of the legal pressure that mueller is applying to get flynn to become a cooperative witness. >> betsy, he's a transition official, which is this quasi government official, he's a private citizen, but for him to execute the plan, he can only execute it when he's in the white house and has the governing authority to execute the plan, if that's the plan. >> exactly. and for the purposes of the mueller probe, one thing that attorneys close to the probe tell me is that the campaign, the transition and the white house are all considered three separate legal entities. so that makes this type of situation, particularly complex for the mueller team, but of course, this means it could implicate two different legal teams looking at the conversation that happened during the transition, but would have impacted the white house, one tidbit about this kind of interesting is remember at issue is the question of this controversial cleric they were trying to forcibly move from his combat in the pocanos back to turkey. last summer, a colleague and i spoke with gulan at his compound in the pocanos, and it would be pretty hard to get him out of there. he basically lives in almost a bunker. it's difficult to get in. it's a very rural area. it would take a lot of effort to try to find a way to extract this man from his home. so any plans that they had that could have come up would have been really ambitious. >> michael flynn's lawyer said out of respect for the process of the various investigations regarding the 2016 campaign, we have intentionally avoided responding to every allegation in the media. but today's news cycle has brought allegations about general flynn, ranging from kidnapping to bribery. congratulations, julia, kidnapping to bribery. that are so outrageous and prejudice shl that we are making an exception to our usual rule, they are false. well, you got their attention. >> of course. well, it's interesting because, first of all, two things i would say about this. one, as we have reported this story, we have been reporting this since sunday when we broke that, robert mueller had enough to indict flynn, we have been in touch with robert kill ner and reaching out to him every step of the way. this is the time they decided to give a response. of course, we know sometimes that's when we get a response, right after we run the story, but also what we are talking about here. >> just procedurally, can we stop for a second? in your reporting on this story, one of the final stages is you run by flynn's lawyer what you have, looking for a response. so he had a chance to say something about this while you were -- >> every point of it, yes. you know, no surprises journalism is what we do here. and the point, too, i would make in response to their statement is that we are talking about the fact that the special counsel is looking into that. standby that reporting. we know he's interviewing witnesses. we're not saying this meeting definitely happened. we're not saying they took the $15 million. we're saying this is part of the probe and that's what makes this -- that's what makes this such a lynch pin in trying to flip flynn. and that's what we're reporting. and this statement is saying that we're reporting as fact that he took this $15 million. >> there's nothing in the report that predicts there will be an indictment on kidnapping or bribery. and betsy, the -- but what it does give us is the sense that the prosecutors have more than one card to play with michael flynn. they've got quite a deck. >> right. rob kellner is going after a bit of a strawman, who is flynn's attorney, but suggesting you all reported something you didn't report. of course, it's long been known that flynn has had significant legal challenges. and that's something we're seeing flushed out with your great reporting this week, is the fact that not necessarily just on the foreign lobbying front, but the specific type of work that mueller may be considering, he could have been engaged with is, as rob kellner his attorney said, pretty eye-popping stuff. so it's just another reason that the work the mueller probe does and whatever conclusions it comes to are going to be incredibly fascinating and impactful. >> and michael flynn was the one person that president trump warned, president obama warned president-elect trump about, don't hire him. >> that's right. he did. and another piece of this as well is the fact that we know and reported earlier that the fbi was asked to re-up its investigation into gulen after the obama administration dismissed that. >> julian ainsley, thank you for joining us. bet betsy woodruff, thank you for joining us. tonight's last word is next. patrick woke up with back pain. but he has work to do. so he took aleve. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve. all day strong. ...you might be missing to stasomething... ♪ ...your eyes. that's why there's ocuvite. it helps replenish nutrients your eyes can lose as you age. nourish your eyes to help keep them healthy. ocuvite. be good to your eyes. ...from far away. but they only ♪harsee his wrinkles.♪ ... ♪if only harry used some... ♪...bounce, to dry. ♪he would be a less wrinkly, winning guy.♪ >>> i've spent this week beginning to meet last word viewers around the country, so far in new york city, boston and tonight in washington, d.c., talking about my new book "playing with fire: the 1968 transformation of american politics" and i'm going to leave you with a sample of the television talk about the book this week. and i know you didn't get to see rachel at 9:00 tonight. so here she is now. >> you can learn about water gate by learning about what richard nixon did, but if you really want to learn about water gate, learn what the country was like and what was going on in the country at the time water gate happened, which allowed watergate to end the way it did. and the way to start understanding that is to understand '68. >> there's a little bit of collusion in the victory in tend that is actually richard nixon used collusion with a foreign government in order to win in the end. >> and for the rest of the story, "playing with fire" is available in bookstores and online. and if you can bear the sound of my voice for hours on-end, the audio book is available, tonight. that's tonight's last word. the 11th hour with brian williams is next. >>> tonight, robert mueller's investigation and mike flynn. the special counsel looking into an offer up to $15 million for flynn to have a turkish president's rival sent back to turkey. >>> also, two republican senators tonight withdrawing their support for roy moore as the alabama candidate calls the sexual misconduct claim against him completely false. >>> and we're live in vietnam as president trump is half a world
