i think he's professional, a former fbi agent. i take what he says very seriously. i've not seen any evidence to suggest what he said. >> the future of spying in america is going to be something that congress is going to take up. how much authority should these intelligence agencies have? do you think these programs that allow the government to collect bulk metadata, should they be here to stay? >> we have to change these programs. the president challenged us to do it. i have spoken on the floor of the senate for years about this program but only in the most circumspect way. i couldn't be specific or tell the details we now know. but the fact is we have to change them. if we have a suspicion of a person in area code 312 in chicago connected with terrorism, we don't need to collect all the phone records of every person living in the 312 area code. that's just unacceptable. the government shouldn't hold that information. the president has challenged congress and the attorney general to come up with an alternative to keep us safe but to not create an opportunity for th

i know the state department, through their security division, and the fbi will have security people on the ground. and so i think we're going to have to rely on that. we look to cooperating with the ioc, with the host nation, and the other countries that are there in terms of protecting the security of the games. >> again, if you were head of homeland security, as you were, would you look at this recent history of attacks, look at some vulnerabilities and conclude that this is just a probe by terrorists to potentially target the games? >> i don't know that i would conclude that. i think that what you would do is just be alert to the fact, you know, to the situation. but remember, in the run-up to all the games recently, there have been security issues, security questions, have appropriate preparations been made. after the games, everybody talks about the actual performances which actually is the point. >> the usa today concluded on monday in its paper the following, and i'll read it to you about broader concerns. yet as the new security measures were being advanced, the volgograd attac

this country's been through watergate, been through hoover at the fbi. we know the kinds of excesses that canning happen. you don't want that potential there. >> first of all, if you look at the irs scandal, we had plenty of opportunity for abuse with paper. i mean, the power of the government is enormous. that's why as a conservative i like smaller government. but the question is, are if you draw a sharp line and say for the purpose of defending america, you can learn these things, none of them it can migrate over to the criminal justice system and you should make it a felony. this is why snowden has to be tried. it should be a tourmaline. >> meaning if they used information for purposes of going after, i agree 100%, 100%. >> we'll continue this. you all will be back and i'm going to talk to the intelligence chairs you mentioned feinstein and rogers as well as getting some reaction from the digital world, as well. but i want to turn to another big story in politics this morning and get to the latest on the new allegations of bullying by the administrati