transformed globe. there is no question about that. china is setting out there and india and brazil and information technology has made it a smaller planet and a lot more people and we have to find a way that we can move forward together and one or the other parties if they can tap into that i think can do all of this. >> >> rose: so that brings to the question, that was exactly the spirit of the 2008 campaign of president obama. what happened? >> i think he was not as prepared for, first of all, the strength of the opposition on the hill, and how, you know, these guys had been around for a while, and they knew that the white house is a great engine, drives american politics, they wanted it back. i don't think he had as clear an idea to match up what he wanted to do with the objective conditions on the ground, the economy was in worse shape than anyone realized. by the way, including a lot of ceos. i remember in '09, i was with a group ofery senior ceos and a lot of them had been struggling, their companies have all survived but they thought by late 2010 the economy would be back on its

failing, whether it hazerbaijan or indiaa bomb that went off in india that wounded somebody and had a failed effo in bangkok, there ve been a lot of differentÑiÑiÑi efforts by the iranians around the globe so first things first determine if it was the iranians was it hezbollah? iran and hezbollah together? i think this is the 18th anniversary of blowing up the jewish community center in argentinaçói] and so y the first instance you have to think pretty hard there is a hezbollah connection here. very interesting thatñrçó necesy rolla secretary and leader of the hezbollah yesterday gave a speech inçóñ%i which he bemoanee onsequences of the killing of the key syrian security officials because of the role they played with hezbollah then he immediately launched into how .. hezbollah can surprise israer if israel does anything against hezbollah. now, that suggests that he was anticipating that israel might be prepared to do something against hezbollah and in his own way he was trying to suggest that his in easy has more means to deal with what the israelis might do than the isr

conglomerate that has been giving back to india since its founding in 1868. since becoming company chairman in 1991 he has run the group's charitable efforts in education, performing arts,al ag development and much more. also joining me judith rodin president of the rockefeller foundation, former president of university of pennsylvania and a powerful voice on innovation in corporate giving and philanthropy, i'm especially pleased to have both of them at this table not only to talk about the foundation and conference but also this remarkable man and friend of mine who sits to my left. welcomement congratulations. >> thank you, charlie. >> so why did we choose, why did you choose, why did rockefeller close him for this recipient of a lifetime achievement award? >> rock fell frere its founding has been interested in -- >> there going to be embarrassing for you, i warn you. >> innovation and how to bring innovation in philanthropy and how to bring innovation to philanthropy. and i can't imagine any one who better embodies as a family, as a company, as an individual that notion. the family innov

>> rose: welcome to the program, tonight bill gates on philanthropy, microsoft, india and his mission for the rest of his life. >> i put time into microsoft and i couldn't be more proud of the work they've done with windows 8 and now the surface. but my focus is on the foundation. what's going on in global health. what we're trying to do in education. you know, i'm trying to learn about that. i feel like in terms of bringing the pieces together, the right innovation, the system thinking that you know, i'm playing the role that is most important. >> rose: bill gates for the hour, next. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following:. >> additional funding provided by these funders: captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. rose. >> rose: bill gates is here, his philanthropic organization the bell and melinda gates foundation is centred on the belief that every life hasek wall value. it follows four values to define t work, optimism, collaboration, rigor and innovation. the foundation has invested more that be

when we're working in india or the philiines we have to change the hours of the studio to accommodate whatever time zone we're operating in and that's the bulk of the process. the taking of the photograph is the last bit of the years of that. >> rose: this is what "time" magazine said about you. said on may 14, 2012, "if taryn simon hadn't become a photographer she could have made a fortune in sales because she has persuasive powers that the rest of us can only dream. she has a way of getting what she wants. if somebody closes a door she says you have to find another way in." and that's the bulk of it. >> and it is a lot of that. it's going a straight line and then suddenly realizing there is a resistance or hesitance to participate for different reasons and finding a way to circle around it. in this particular project there were several individuals who didn't want to participate for different reasons. maybe they didn't want to be associated with the narrative i was highlighting. >> rose: in one case it was the lawyer for hitler who was killed and who was convicted and han

-- japan, south korea, india, et cetera. so on iran, they are very much with us in the international arena. >> rose: would they support an oil embargo? >> well, absent some action by iran between now and july 1, the oil embargo is going into effect, and that's been very clear from the beginning, that we were on this track. i have to certify under american laws whether or not countries are reducing their purchases of crude oil from iran. and i was able to certify that india was, japan was, south korea was, and we think, based on the least data, that china is also moving in that direction. and thankfully, there's been enough supply in the market that countries have been able to change suppliers. on syria, you know, so far they've taken russia's lead on syria. but we're working on that every single day as well. >> rose: why do they do that? why do they take russia's lead? >> well, i think both russia and china have a very strong aversion to interference in internal affairs. >> rose: sovereignty issues. >> yes. >> for the russians -- i was with president obama in mexico two days ago. we

hong kong to some acclaim and we're proud of that. we're also finishing a project in india but we don't seek work in asia. these our only two projects and we're happy with them but it takes a lot to understand the culture and the place. >> and we actually don't do any commercial work so we really only work for nonprofits. >> rose: you mean nobody has enough money to get you to design a fancy office? >> that's not true! that's not true! >> rose: (laughs) well, what is true? >> our aspirations... we work better for people whose aspirations match ours. >> rose: which are? how would you define your aspirations? >> we want to make good buildings that are useful to people and last for a very long, long time that are as public as possible. >> rose: what's the definition of a good building?h= when we think of sustainable architecturet needs to be sustained over many, many years. hundreds of years, loved even as it changes its function. even as it changes... the users change. so i'd say that building good bodies, building good brains, building good bones for it's the infrastructure that i

induced parkinson from reserpin, a drug from india, it caused people in animals to become parkinsoan none knew how that work. but early investigators found a decrease in serotonin. he was interested. i wonder if it decreases dope minute. he gave to animal and showed a decrease as well as serotonin. then he said which one is it. so he took rabbits. he injected reserpin, made the rabbits listless, droop, couldn't move, their ears dropped down and then injected the precursor for serotonin, nothing happened. injected the precursor for dopamine which is l-dopa and the animals woke up. carlson recognized, this is very important, and he came up with a hypothesis that dopamine is somehow involved in parkinson's disease. he came up with this hypothesis in 1959 and eventually he won the nobel prize the same year that eric won it. >> okay. anne young tell me about huntington's. >> huntington's is a little different that parkinson's but it starts insidiously just like parkinson's. it begins in midlife. so usually after people have had their family,. but it can start in as early as age 2 or as la

he was also making a fuss about other issues like india or the and station on which he was felt to be way out of opinion and the feeling was winston was making a fuss because he wants to get back into the office. by '38/'39 particularly after munich there's a strong sense actually although winston is a nuisance he's right on this fundamental thing and the great advantage for church shill that when war comes he is in a position of not having been tainted, he's not got dirty hands, he has a really clear record, he can speak with authority and there is an overwhelming desire to see him back in government. >> and he manage an extraordinary passage for britain and the british parliament because there was this growing unease, particularly after munich so many people deep in their gut knew that a terrible mistake had been made and that became then alarm because of the pace of events and he manages to take that and turn it into resolution. and one of the things the speech he made for france the first version of it he isn't precise about... he actually says this makes no difference, words t

the history of mankind because you would talk about china brazil and india, we saw a real rise in the standard of living, obviously that rise of standard of living in those countries have had very .. poor negative impact on some of the other developed economies because we are equalizing everything and that equalization means some countries are going down, some countries are going up. that is more of a global issue, but specifically in china, if we cannot get the chinese to start spending with this vast wealth, that is the clogged artery of the world right now. you know, we -- we have always thought about the economy the global economy, would grow because we all know how much americans spend and we know how much brazilians spend because they spend more of the disposable income that us, and but they do spend a lot, you take that model to asia, and that model is very different, they are saving much more than the west ever did. now, there is a long history in it, you have had a long history of governments in asia not helping their citizens, and we finally now have governments in asia that

license plates on his car. >> charlie: there's also this, the india thing you referenced. he learned something there, the spirituality of india, the sense of respect for intuition, all were lessons he came back with. >> absolutely. the thing he told me, he realized after his months in india, he said i realized the role intuition plays. intuition based on experiential as opposed western analytic thought. and it getba, i'm sorry to keep harping on it on the two f facets to steve's personality. the intuitive poetic side and the rational enneer businessman side. he was able to join them. but if there's a difference between, if steve jobs ishe smartest guy ever in silon valley, not especially but he's a genius because he had an intuition of how emotion connects. that intuition, i don't know how you develop great intuition but he says it was experiencallism. he was in the ment and you have ntuitions you're willi to trust. we have intuitions mine aren't generally that good and i don't trust them all that much. but he had these intuitions of, i mean for example the imac. it's a desktop compu

. we vastly improved our relationships with india and countries in southeast aa, australia and singapore and vietnam. we've had a chance to improve the housing and the circumstance of the troops. we've increased the special operations forces. we put in a national security personnel system so that we can begin to make effective use of the... >> rose: what's one specific thing? >> we made enormous progress! >> rose: one specific thing which... secretary gates is very proud of the fact that he was able to accelerate the protection of the armored units better, make thet better because of land mines and... did we do enough before he took over to make sure? because you remember you had a question raised when in your opinion iraq. >> kuwait. >> rose: kuwait. somebody raised their hand and you said "you fight the war that... what was your quote. >> you go to the war with the army you have, which, of course, is obvious. it's a truism. it's not original with me. you have those capabilities. but what we did was we got... the vehicles that were... did not ve the proper armor were told to g

. >> rose: dow worry about the influence of india in afghanistan. >> no. >> rose: you don't. >> i do not. >> rose: what is the nature of the relationship today because of all the conflict over the kashmir. >> our, the nature of the relationship today is vastly improving, actually. it is very heartening for me. i just went on a trip to india with my father. and it wasn't just the indian government and prime minister, it was also the opposition party's president at that. if you look over the border in pakistan it is not just my party that is always talked about peace with india. in fact, my mother talked about peace in india in 1988 when she invited-- to pakistan and declared a security threat by the opposition at the time that very same opposition today talks about peace with india. i think peace with india has moved beyond a sort of intellectual elite desire to every common man desire. >> rose: notwithstanding the fact that the mumbai attacks originated from pakistan. >> those are nonstate actors. people are always going to try and say, i believe the mumbai attacks took place to sabo

guys believe we have abandoned them four times. trys in wars with india, once when we turned our backs on them after the soviets left afghanistan and then a fourth time when we imposed the pressler amendment, had to impose it when we found out they had a nuclear weapon. had to cut off all our military relations with the pakistani military. so their view is there's a very strong likelihood the united states will cut and run or leave afghanistan and leave them holding the bag. and so they're playing both sides of the street to protect themselves ainst that. i think at the strategic agreement that the administration has signed with the afghans that commits us to staying there and providing assistance and training and so on for the long term should help reassure pakistanis that we're not going to do that, we're not going to walk away as we did in the late 1980s. so that they will... i mean, our effort over the years has been to get them to come down on our side of the fence. to stop hedging and fully commit to our side. i think that's still... we're not there yet. >> rose: and there's noth

the film "the best exotic marigold hotel." >> india is so-- it's so populated that, you know, that is is very difficult to cope with. as the film relates, it's also-- you literally don't understand the meaning-- at least i didn't feel you could understand the meaning of culture shock until i went there. it's overwhelming because there is so much coming at you, not st nceptually and ecomicly a politically, as tom says, but also what judi's character refers to as the assault on the senses. it's an overwhelming place. but something-- and the film actually encompasses, i think, all possible reactions to the places. >> rose: we continue with a conversation about russia with andrei kostin. >> i think the oligarch system, which was dominating census during the yeltsin era was a great danger. i think mrputin mov it away to much more competitive country in business. but if you ask me whether-- was done enough, i would say no. we still don't have... >> rose: a conversation about acting and a conversation about the future of russia when we continue. captioning sponsored by rose communications fr

and signs that agreement. it's a much bigger problem for pakistan and india than it is for the united states. we're to the going to be force odd to fix our deficit in that environment as quickly as we should. we're to the going to be forced to deal with infrastructure, critical infrastructure in the u.s. that is failing. >> rose: what could force us to fix it. does not the sense that if we don't do something about debt, we will be a-- we will be greece. >> well, i guess that's my point. is in g-zero world were things are much more volatile and risky, you will have what we like to call a safe haven curse. the curse of being the safe haven, the united states is going to be seen for the next few years as still a place that's safe. and so the chinese will complain about american policy, but again don't watch what they say. watch what they do. they going to pile money into u.s. treasuries. equities, look at the equities now in the u.s. at the levels that they hit, highest since we've seen in the financial crisis. people are making money in the united states betting on those equities. that

completely hooked, next wanted to go to india, but i found -- >> you never wanted to go? >> no. i never wanted -- people said, though, you know, would you like to go? i never said that. i never said it wanted to go ther and i had an uncle and aunt and a lot of cousins who lived there, and -- >> rose: it took this to get you there? >> yes. >> rose: we continue this evening with ed luce, he is chief u.s. columnist for the financial times newspaper. and the author of time to start thinking america in the age of descent. >> the american middle class is the most, the motor, it has been until recently the motor not just of the american economy its spending power but of the global economy, and the fact that that motor gets a little bit weaer witheach fresh businessycle or actually quite a lot weaker with each fresh business cycle if you take the last two, including the one we are in the middle of, it is profoundly worrying because people don't have the answers, policy makers don't have the answers, in terms of what to do about this. so it is with a great sense of foreboding and also of f

is an indian afghan access in afghanistan. >> rose: so their fear is what happens... what india might do so therefore they want to have a better relationship, who they expect to be perhaps the winners? >> you have to look from pakistan's perspective it has india on one border with whom it's fault several wars and it has a country, afghanistan, whose president, hamid karzai, has a close strategic relationship with the indians. so that puts pakistan strategically in circles so ideally what pakistan is pushing for is what they had in the 1990s which is a regime in kabul that support pakistan, supports islamabad. so a friend. >> let's look at back to the book and towards where we are today. you talk about waves of al qaeda. give me the four waves that you see. >> well what's interesting is when you look at the last dede and a lf or so in... against al qaeda, al qaeda's strength does not... is not linear. we see it rise and fall in part depending on u.s. effectiveness against it and in other organizations and their ability to gain a sanctuary. so we saw in president 1990s and through 2001

india is n-e-i-l gui which means blue bull. this is very much a animal favorite 100ed by the mughal. sheila brought up the issue of the idealized figure in the iranian world. and extraordinary development in the mughal's sphere was the production of portrait ture based on observation. and this was portrait did ture not just of human beings but of individual animals. we believe this was an animal that might have roamed in the emperor's zoo logical gardens t is believed by scholars this is an individual animal because one of the horns is broken and the master who created this was a great natural painter of great natural subjects. he was given the title of wonder of the age by the emperor. and you know, the museum is very lucky to have this and a few other paintings by this great master. when you look at it up close which you can do in the galleries, you see that the brush work is extraordinary and you sense, you see sort of textures from sort of boney nose to slightly furry tale. you sense, there is a sensoree response when you see the finest of the the brush work. >> next is a mango

every kid that thinks they can't make it. folks in africa, folks in india who are in poverty, you know, to change the way they think, if they can source information, and understand that education is key, if you can take information and education and knowledge and technology and you can -- you can segment that information, and you can filter that information, into your own hive, so that you become alive based on the knowledge and information,ee that is learning. and when you become a learner, then you can create your own future based on your dreams and imagination, hope, and vision. >> rose: you say, stedman, you live in the world of media and people, that are known beyond their immediate family. >> uh-huh. >> rose: they know if you say stedman you are talking about the man in oprah's life, that's what they know. >> yes. >> rose: they know he is tall and handsome and they know he is successful but they don't know much more about you s that a problem for you? >> it is not a problem for me, cae iefine myself and i am not worried about how other people define me. i am not looking for, you

participating in this 400 plus billion dollar fund. where e emerging marts from china to india, to brazil, the brick countries and more in terms of their own economic global growth. >> well, the story, is that emerging and developing economies have contributed more than 50% of the global growth of the last five, ten years. and they contribute to global trade. so enormous contributions from emerging anddeveloping economies to world growth and oil trade today. but you must recognize that as a collective, there is still accounts for less than 50% of all gdp. less than a third of oil trade, so as much as you recognize that the engine of oil growth today, you must also recognize that in stark term these have a lot of catch up to do. >> should we view emerging nations today, emerging economies are no different than developed economies? in what sense. >> well, in the sense that they have high-growth rate. >> yes. >> in a sense that they are providing more of the total economic growth of the world. >> yes. >> economy. >> yes, but they are still very poor countries. india is a large economy. but o

acquisition. india. what was that about and how important is that to your future. >> when you do an acquisition charlie and maybe i can try to explain it in a way that the average person will understand who isn't in high tech, you want to say what are you trying to accomplish. well i think it's tough for us all to keep that. but you want to see where the market going. the market is going to this new concepts toward cloud. it's going more towards a software driven base. it's going more to the area of videos being the primary form not only of communication every device five years from now charlie will be video. that's how you communicate with your kids family work, your audience, etcetera. and what nbs allowed us to do and you want to say where the acquisition fit into your strategy paint that picture for the stock market paint it for your customers, paint it for your employees and the acquired company. wh nds did is aow us to mov into this video capability in large service providers or cable providers that provide our entertainment for us many which of course kerry you carry your d a

it's having. >> is the rise of china and india and brazil because america is declining or moving up? it's because they're moving up. why are they moving up? because they have embraced our paradigm of free markets. that's why they're moving up and this should be something that we're happy about, not unhappy about. >> rose: as kneel ferguson says they looked at all the alps that made america powerful and includd most ohem in thir wn desns for the future. >> that's exactly right. so, yeah, now will we decline if we don't gate handle around our debt bomb? you bet we will. we have a... you know, people ask me what's the most serious problem facing us today and i say it's the economy, the economy, and the economy in that order. we cannot continue down this path that we're now on where we are building up greater and greater and greater levels of debt. our debt to g.d.p. for the next five years going to be 100%. simply ununsustainable. we have to get a handle on that or we will be in decline. >> rose: you have said without the dollar being the reserve currency we would be greece. >> that is

terrorism. india does, pakistan does, iran does, rsia does, china does, why d't we ve a conference of all of these nations, pull it together, we could lead or get coleadership or something and get them all together and say look, it is in all of our interests that we not have an afghanistan that just is a base forç terrorism. >> rose: and we can do that -- >> and we have 100,000 troops there and you don't have any. >> rose: would you do do that now or wait until after the election?( >> well, i don't think -- i don't see any major political down side to doing that. i mean, maybe there is one that i don't see. >> rose: well,ut campaigning and this could be an important focus and say, the stakes there are so serious we ought to immediately have a conference. and bring together an international conference. we have a stake in this. >> i think he can run for office and -- >> rose: so you are recommending a conference now. >> and chew gum at the same time. you have a secretary of state that can lead the charge on it. i think it would be a very important thing. >> rose: why don't you do some

think next the times of india the largest circulation english language newspaper in the world. >> rose: what was the number, do you know? >> over five million. so you had these tabloids which she was very attached to and that combination of political influence that got him things people couldn't get and renege on his promises and so forth and the controversy with harold evens. that pattern set up back then ems to be athe ba of what's happened now because it turns out if we are to believe the latest announcement from scotland yard in a very unusual proceeding where the assistant commissioner of scotland yard gets up where you're not supposed to talk about criminal cases and says that the sun has a culture of corruption. >> rose: the "sun" the newspaper? >> the "sun" the newspaper has a culture of corruption. what kind of corruption? systematic bribery inside the metropolitan police. >> rose: meaning in order to undercover stories and get leads they were bribing theolice? >> apparently that's how it started. we don't know what else has been going on. for example, rebecca brooks

morgan stanley started investing in the region. a year later, two years later, i went to india and i said to myself thank god i came to china first because if i had gone to india i would have seen english as a language, rule of law, and more democracy than i've ever seen anywhere else. now in the last 20 years if you look at the two countries, who's really made the move? the move has been china. >> rose: we conclude with dr. mark hyman author of the blood sugar solution. >> the problem is doctors graduate medical school knowing more about how to treat malaria than obesity and obesity-related problems. we don't know how to diagnosis this problem. that means 90% of people with this condition don't know they have it. >> rose: battlefield stress, china's economic future and blood sugar solutions when we continue. >> rose: tonight we begin with a look at the growing strain on american men and captioning sponsored by rose communications win serving around the world. last week marked a moment of reckoning for forces in afghanistan when staff sergeant robert bales was accused of killing 16 c

now. they just overtook india as the number one nation. >> rose: including the vice president's daughter at harvard. >> including son also at that fabled institution. >> rose: do you regret running for president or do you look at it as a wonderful experience and you got to know america in a way you didn't know it. >> it was an extraordinary journey. first of all, let's face it. coming from china and jumping into a presidential race you go from an environment where the party dictates everything and there's no such thing as a free... freedom of expression on the street corner or questioning candidates. to town hall meis in new hampshire. where nobody forces people to turn out. they just do. because they care so much about their future. and they care so much about their country. if alexis de tocqueville were to make a return visit, you know, from when he left off in 1832 or 1834, he would find the same kinds of things at play that he wrote about democracy in america. people at the localist levels of government still taking ownership in their future. that is what wasso hearning in t

him. because they was one that he couldn't turn. >> rose: when they had the confrontation in india he could not get him to turn because he at that time his nemesis, carlo, was going back to russia assuming in the soviet union... soviet union, assuming he'd be shot. >> that he'd be shot. and he wasn't shot. >> rose: and he claim climbed his way back to the top? and always had the... always knew, always had his eye on that mr. smiley. there's also this, the glass. y loo fo something, and the voice. you got that voice from le carre didn't you? >> the more you work on it the more you own it and the further it gets away from an impersonation but he is... i thought what better place to start than with... >> rose: and you tried on how many pair? 200? >> something like that. >> rose: what were you looking for? the kind of glasses he would wear? >> yes. and also i imagined smiley as a wise old owl that had these big eyes hoke see everything and he hears everything. the great thing is he doesn't have to rush. he doesn't have to rush to anything. if you imagine smiley as a spider in a web, he

dickens but did thein disguise. >> i wanto go back to the oor. nd y mentioned growing up in india. where did that come from and what was it about describing and writing about the urban poor that so compelled him? >> i think it is what we have been saying, it is the things he escaped. it's the place he might have -- >> he wants to tell their story. >> yeah, he just has-- he has that great quality of a great novelist which is that he is om any rouse. there is nothing of life that is not interesting to him. >> and he would plunge into these worlds the poor world which he might have escaped from but still feared, the world of the rich industrialist or mill owner, any world that there is, dickens wanted to push his hands in up to the elbow. >> nd he was always interested, john go ahead. >> there is something about the politics about the poor, actually are more interesting than at first it seems. we tend to think sort of the poet or the sentimental cute. >> called in the people's tribune. >> yes, and that is true. and certainly in oliver twist you really feel how poverty criminalizes, v

and india and turkey but you still need to do kind of a rigorous analysis what does that mean for the american position in the world. there were fluxes before, during the cold war there was the rise of japan, there was the rise of germany. >> charlie: i'll give you one small example. the total gdp of the emerging nations we're talking about the so-called brick countries and others, certainly brazil and china expinld yea and india, tae big one is going to be so much larger over the next 15 years and occupy so much more of the together gdp of the world. >> well, that's probably true, although some of these projections don't quite turn out the way, a lot of that assumes known hanobody has a hiccup andl these countries had hiccups in their past. setting that aside if you look over the last 40 years it's rather striking how the united states has maintained a pretty steady share of global gdp throughout that period of 25-30 percent depending how you measure it and most of the rise of china has come with the expense of you're and come at the expense of japan. but let's look at all of the

has just written a new book set in india. it is called behind the beautiful forevers, life, hope and death in a mumbai undercity. booth' first book has already saved much praise, "the new york times" says comparing to dickens is not unwarranted. boo previously won a pulitzer for her earlier work at the "washington post". mi pleased to have her here at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: tell me how you came to this story. >> well, it's for an unrecognized feminist like myself it's a little embarrassing to say t was really a labor of love. i met my husband in 2001. >> rose: he's indian. >> he's indian. and before i knew t the first night i met him i knew that if i saw him again i knew my life was going to change, completely. in a way i didn't want it to change but it did. and suddenly i was spending, you know, all the time that we had in india, which was changed beyond recognition already. after ten years of economic liberallization. and one of the things that i felt was-- there were so many contradictions. like the cities were prospering or condomi

hostily between india and china. >> rose: is it growing? >> yes, yes. >> rose: what is your evidence that it's growing? >> there is mutual fear, accusations that the chinese are penetrating the indian ocean, the chinese are fearful that the indians are trying to -- >> what do you tnk their ambition is, china? >> i think the chinese are historical very patient. very different from us. >> rose: for obvus reasons. >> and, therefore, i don't think they're seeking to become at this stage a hedge mon, but they're trying to equal us, to match us, and then they expect at some point if they maintain that momentum to surpass us. but in the meantime, they recognize something very new in the relationship between big wers whichakes it different, let's say from the compitition between imperial germany and great britain, can namely, their interests are now intertwined with our interests more and more and our interests are intertwined with theirs. and this is why i think the president was right when he said let's be really engaged in china, but not as a hostile intervener, and not by demonizing the

economies, brazil, russia, india and china. that term has become a household name in glal economics. he revisits the bric phenomenon in this new book called "the growth map." i am pleased to have jim o'neill back on the program. welcome. >> thank you very much for having me again. >> rose: here's what's frofrom--interesting to m we haa program on a range of subjects havi to do with you, and the kinds of things you were doing, what were the distinguishing characteristics of emerging marketmarkets will, how you camo define brics. a lot of that is in the book. in the back you're looking back and looking forward. why did you write it? >> that's e key question. i think the specific thing that started me off was around november 2010-- i'm getting my years right-- yeah, 2010, i was on a trip, long trip to china and india together and korea. obviously, i've been to each of those places quite often, especially china. but it's the first time i'd ever been to china and india on the same trip without going home. and i always deliberately resift the sort of comparison of china versus india, which is

oliver wheeler-- by the survey of india with the task of mapping the inter-- for the mountain it would be he who would spend more time hire on the mountain a loan on the mountain, exposed to the wrath of the mountain than any other man, he was hee not george money tune-- mall ory whfound the door to the mounta, the key to the north pole. now i found his son living five doors from the house i was bo in vancouver. i went to see john wheerl. he pulled off the shelf two treasures, two fat journals written by his dad as he marched across everest in 1921. now on that approach march arthur kellis, filliole gist, 56 yeared old o too old for everest literally died and was buried in the fortress on the tibetan platteau. the day of his burial wheeler's journal entry reads simply this well, they buried the old boy in the morning. thought it would be the afternoon, terribly sorry to have missed it but i do hate funerals. wait a minute, how do you miss the internment of o of the six guys you are walking-- had to be an explanation an i knew was with the western front. he was a soldier with the

, in my theory that he always wanted to have india as part of that sort of jurisdiction that he w given. >> he should have. >> he should have and that is the problem we face today is that the rival between india and pakistan plays on the ground in afghanistan with american troops caught in the middle and he knew that and he knew that pakistan was a key player in what is happening there, and you have seen a tremendous deterioration in the relationship between the u.s. and pakian, maybe that would have happened with holbrook working this, but i don't think so. he always -- he said to me over anand over again we need to make this a less transactional relationship and have to respect the pakastanis and their concerns about india and the question, the only hope left for afghanistan is sort of what security guarantees would get the pakastani army to stop supporting the taliban? and they are. and that is the reality, they are not our ally, and they are thprimary source of instability in the region an that is where richard imissed so dearly, he started the back channel and all of these ta

important strategic region of the world? start to follow a path of china and india. or does it remain vastly behind and not even catching? >>. >> we continue this with david recommend nick-- remnick the editor of "the new yorker" magazine whose article in the current issue is called the civil arkansas how far with the resistant to vladimir putin go. >> i don'tant to say that anything equals anything else but remember egypt that initial outburst was largely middle cla. it was largely people who had work, even in a country with very, very high unemployment rates. russia has very high employment. russia is an older society than egypt. i don't expect a ta require square type scenario. but still, there are analogies to be made and they're very vivid. >> we conclude this evening with an appreciation of christopher hitchens who died in houon on thursday at age 62. jill abramson, tom friedman, david leonhardt, david remnick and an appreciation of christopher hitchens when we continue. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following: are are . >> from our studios in new york city, this

right nowwe're seeing these before countries with very little power like india and china and these poor coutries and now suddenly bein empowered so much and growing so muc i think is a trendy think nothing can stop. now that we see china aending and talking about the being the second largest economy or will be the largest economy soon, i think that's the just the trend. nobody can really turn it backwards. i think for us the best we can do is to embrace this knowing this is going to be the future and what can we do the best to be part of it. now, in the short term there wi be challenges no doubt. it's not always going to be easy or sunny and the government is facing a lot of challenge beuse the complexity of the issues are so much mor today than before and yet it requires the skills that our systems -- thehallenges outpace our system and that's where we are now and i think that's why you're seeing polies coming from yesterday to today always changing the volatility seems to be everywhere. >> charlie: doou lookto take good perience from china and make happen or is china so rich in posbil

minister shingh in india. there were a network of leaders willing to do a lot of things that would have helped pakistan and its sious economic problems and revamping the society. >> charlie: a serious possibility of the stabilizing forces within. >> totally, totally. and essentially, what was, what is being asked is that pakistan renounce terrorism instrument of its foreign policy. in other words accepting the location of terrorists organizations, whether safe havens where they are directorred towards afghanistan or india towards peace and progress especially when you have a visionary leader like prime minister shigh who has taken huge political risk and not responding -- >> charlie: there were acts in his country that were originated in pakistan. >> not responding to mumbai politically. and the russian roulette game that i think the pakistanis are playing and i said this in exactly those words and i said my former colleagues at the nfc and the state dent have done the same thing -- department have done the same thing. is that you really don't understand or you don't understand that you

influenced you. for example you went to india. >> india has been a huge part of my life. >> charlie: what happened over there that influenced you. >> well i think that you see a whole fferent philosophy and a fferent culture. more of an inside out view of the world. you may attention more to what's going o it's exactly what happened to us, me and you two years ago where i came up to you and i said you did that interview with neal young and i've known him for four or five years and i never heard him say anything like that i went to neal and said i never heard you say that. and he said i never said those things before. you have to listen inside. that's india. i think it's one of the most interesting things is that it's more inside out and i think that steve jobs, you read the biography by walter isaacson. he had a fascination with that. he went at an early age to india and inspired me slightly in a different way. >> charlie: was there one person who had an impact on your life. >> i don't think itas one. i was fortunate enough to meet what i call gurus. i put neal young in there, dali llama.

china and india. it started out as lark. a diversion. but it has turn mood something real, something that has changed the way human beings relate to one another on a species-wide scale. facebook has merged with the social fabric of american life and not just american but human life. nearly half of all americans have a facebook account, but 70% of facebook users live outside ot united states. it's a permanent fact of our global social reality. we have enter the facebook age and mark zuckerberg is the man who brought it to you. sheryl sandberg joins mark zuckerberg and facebook to help take it to new lels of impact and consequence. tell me what the mission is today for facebook. you've got 800 million and counting users. >> yea >> rose: it's an extraordinary reach, someone said it's the most expansive human enabler of communication or enabler of human communication there has ever been. >> that's right. >> rose: you're doing well at it too. so was's the mission. where is this thing going? >> so the stated mission of the company is to make the world more open and connected, right. and th

biographer of steve jobs and he talked about steve job went to india and came back with a great sense of respect for intuition. one of the things that let. >> he also wrote a biography of albert einstein and he talked about albert einstein's moment of intuition when he said, well, maybe there's nothing such thing as sing chronny in time. what a leap of imagination that was. explain the time and space continuity. he was walking down the road with a friend of his and he had this intuition that changed everything in terms our perception of the universe. >> the idea that you could now begin to study the mind through the brain, right? that's what we're about. and it's a question of putting together what are the right constructs? what are these mental functions that are worth trying to get at. >>uestions to ask and how to get at that. >> one interesting thing which we talked about earlier which go to corey's int about interaction with the environment is there was an article a couple ofays o inhe "new york tis" on a womanhoas schizophrenia and who solves her disee by having a gh level

india china. we have the btt countries. >> charlie: really. >> oh yeah. this is where a lot ofhe malfeasance starts. i have to say it's gone all around the world. when the soviet union collapsed, people still had the benefit of that soviet education. and what did that soviet education concentrate on? it concentrated on math and the sciences. and all of the hacker guys who i've got to knowhey are all natural mathematicians or physicists or chemists. >>> >> charlie: as well as the education. >> absolutely. the other key thing about russia, the one thg w they couldn't hit russian institutions but also the kgb demanded that if they required hacking capacity for a national security purposes as happened in 2007 with a massive cyberattack on alstonia and in 2008 a collateral cyber attack on georgia during the russian-georgian war. the kgb would come knocking at the hackers because ty want to know absolutely everythi that's going on in the internet. there's no secret to the kgb. they say we need your capacity and we need u to do this or that. >> charlie: same thing true in china. >> it's

economy with a conversation with azim premji from india. he is the chairman of the wipro. >> i'm particarly optimisticbout india's future. and i attribute that to the entrepreneurship of india, to the extremely-- democracy which is across all levels of educion. i think that's fundamental to a successful society in the long run. so whatever aberrations you see now, whatever issues on governance wt you are seeing now which are hitting the press and hitting the media, i think it's something which is in a way good. because it's made a major ckup -- wake-up call. >> a president's announcement on the eye war and a look at the global economy with case, ciliv and premji next. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following: additional funding provided by these funders: captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> we begin this evening with an announcement today, this afternoon by president obama that america's war in iraq will end by the end of this year. here is what the president said. >> today, i can report that as p

there's economic weakness in advance economies, not just china. there's india, most emerging markets. but the reality is if there will be an economic contraction in u.s., europe and japan, chinese growth slow down sharply because of trade and other types of links and th chinese are already getting worried so they're letting their currency appreciate gradually. their own date on the trade balance is suggesting softness in the trade side of it. so increasingly they might just move to actually... you said the warning about the inflation in mark credit policy, if growth slows down they might ease monetary policy, might ease fiscal policy, might also allow le of a currency appreciation, let alone maybe weakening the currency. >> liu: but nouriel, if the currency did appreciate as fast as so what so many docratic lawmakers want, is there a risk that china could actually fall into a recession? >> well, over time the chinese currency has appreciated by maybe 20% or 30%. the question is, if you do it fall one-- say in a year or six months-- of course there will be a hard landing in china. that pro

china and india and it's always been good neighbors and we would like to continue be good neighbors. but times ar changed and circumances have changed and to continue to be good neighbors certain policies have to change. i believe thathe best kind of relationship between any two countries is a good relationship between two people. not only bween the governmt, beeen the pple. and this i would like every head of government to keep in mind it matters in the long run and with the united states government i would like like to take the opportunity to say that i very much appreciate what they have done for us for over two decades now to help us in the struggle for democracy. but, of course, we always think that more can be done. i think that this is so the people... we always think that more can be done. and would areciate it very much if the process would hp by giving... by the right kind of encouragement in the right places. >> rose: is there specific things that you need in order to communicate yourwn struggle and your own passion? do you have the access that you now need rohr there lim

india, in some respect turkey. in some aren'ts brazil. and so forth. >> rose: but is there a common denominator among those countries in which they are saying, the u.s. is on the wrong course but this is the right course and we all agree? >> no. >> rose: other than negotiations. >> they are dived, they are divided but they also do some things that on some issues in the policy of sanctions is too rigid, and the willingness to compromise on some issues is not exactly overwhelming. >> rose: you agree with that, don't you? >> i tend to be critical of our policy towards iran. i think we are unintentionally creating the fusion between kind of prinlive iranian theocracy and iranian nationalism which is embraced be at this much more advanced and democratically oriented portions of iranian society which are nonetheless very resentful that we are treati iran as a kind of ostracized enemy. >> rose: larry you sat in the white house, and the principle focus was on the economy. the u.s. domestic economy and the global economy, where does russia come in in all of that? >> the commercial significan

better for most people. >> rose: and we contue with ambassador shankar bajpai on india. >> the fact of the matter is that both countries and in fact almost every country in the world is so heavily preoccupied with domestic and other problems, that it's almost impossible to get the kind of momentum that we had hoped this relationship was speaking of. after the nuclear deal, when the great deal of high expectation was aroused in both countries, things started to-- a distracted by other issues, so we felt that it was important to try and focus on what really matters to both countries, why it matters, and what they can do about it. >> rose: we conclude with iran and part two of our conversation with mahmoud ahmadinejad. >> we wish to have to enjoy good relationship with everyone, with all countries. why would we enjoy bad relations between countries. iran is a country that has a great civilization. and for thousands of years iran conducted itself properly in the international arena. >> rose: china, india, iran when we continue. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following: >>

all over china and india and so on. these are the issues of the moment, and how to do it with limited resources-- with less energy, with materials that are replenishable. and i'm not saying all of this should not uplift the spirit and be sculptural and exciting, but it's how you get there and what the priority is. >> rose: we continue with talk about nfl and professional football's upcoming season with jerry jones, the owner of the dallas cowboys, and jerry richardson, owner of the carolina panthers. >> what you won't see is the kind of leadership that was involved, from the owner's perspective, by jerry richardson, as our chairman. everybody was certainly unified, and we all had one goal in mind. and that was rather than before it goes over the cliff, like we wish we had done in this country 10 years ago, make the changes now in the business model that will grow the pie because it's too great a game, it's too great for our fans, and it's a wonderful opportunity for everybody involved. and this deal accomplished that. >> we have what i would say, charlie, was a classic collaborative e

because of their population or in india because of their population or in brazil and places like that. some will argue it's a much more competitive environment for the united states. while we may have a system, other people are learning from our system and they have built-in advantages that we don't have. >> rose: yeah, they've gotten smarter about things. i mean, if you go back 50 years in china, the chinese were just as smart then. they worked just as hard but they weren't getting results. and now theye getting incredle results: but that's not bad for us. i mean, the world isn't a zero-sum game at all. we wt the rest of the world to prosper. we'll ll them a lot of things. most people don't realize it but ouexports as a percentage of g.d.p. have doubled in the last four 40 years. we have become better at exporting things. we just import better. >> rose: two big debates coming up in terms of this country and political season. one is about taxes which you are speaking to in this pie. the rich ought to pay for it. the other is the role of government. how do you see that debate? >> well,