joseph, the son of jacob. the son of isaac. the son of abraham was thrown into a pit with snakes by his brothers. full of hatred and jealousy towards them and then he was sold into slavery and compiled from his father and from his home for 22 years. many of which -- >> i think he was more a methodist if i'm not mistaken but a man of strong religious faith out wardly. >> no. his family told me he wasn't a man of faith. he believed in infinity. what is key about mandela when you look to him and his sense of himself and where he got his strength from, where, in fact, he got his spirituality from was the rural roots, his african traditional existence. we will say it over and over again. his childhood was filled with rituals and ceremonies and that still was very much in the way he thought even as he, you know, emerged as a modern man, you know, with a law degree and he became president. this is why there is this wonderful mixture of faith that is more deeply rooted in these ancient traditions of africa. >> we have to take a break.