tv Consider This Al Jazeera October 13, 2014 10:00pm-11:01pm EDT
>> hundreds of days in detention. >> al jazeera rejects all the charges and demands immediate release. >> thousands calling for their freedom. >> it's a clear violation of their human rights. >> we have strongly urged the government to release those journalists. >> journalism is not a crime. >> the growing fight over america's response to ebola, who's in charge? also the u.n. glenl, slams israeli provocations and another iraqi military base not far from baghdad. i'm antonio mora, welcome to "consider this" those stories and much more straight ahead. >> texas nurse who treated thomas duncan tested positive
for ebola. >> her case is the first known transmission in the u.s. >> it is possible in the coming days that we will see additional cases of ebola. >> kobani does not define the strategy of the coalition. >> to beat i.s.i.l. it is the iraqi people that will have to take the lead. >> hands up don't shoot. >> several hundred people took part in a march and rally in ferguson missouri today. >> police arrested professor cornell west along with clergy members. >> the culmination of four days of protesting. >> scientists have long tried to understand whether the use of antibiotics on farms is contributing to the antibiotic resistance. >> direct pathway there are a lot of unknowns as well. >> in jerusalem israelis confronted palestinian demonstrators. >> these only inflame tension. >> we begin with the latest on
the ebola outbreak following the news sunday that a dallas nurse who treated thomas eric duncan became the first case to spread within the u.s. hospitalized and clinically stable. she's one of seven health care workers who took part in duncan's care. they are all being monitored to see if they develop symptoms of the virus, as one person who had contact with the nurse. centers for disease control thomas frieden said monday the new case will change substantially how the u.s. faces ebola. >> this one individual was infected and we don't know how within the isolation unit then it is possible that other individuals could have been infected as well. we have to rethink the way we address ebola infection control. because even a single infection is unacceptable. >> for more let's go to al
jazeera america correspondent robert ray, outside cdc headquarters in atlanta. the director of the cdc said we have to change substantially the way we handle ebola because of this newest incident. what has the cdc said about what kind of changes are necessary? >> well, you know, antonio, they're going to look at health care workers and hospitals. and the protocols inside those systems. specifically, one of the biggest things that they're looking to change is the garb. the materials that a health care worker puts on to protect themselves from the bodily fluids that an ebola victim can transfer to another person. remember that's the only way to get ebola from bodily fluids. saliva, diarrhea things like that urine. and so the process, the tedious process that health care workers go to actually take off the headdress and make sure the gloves come off properly and no
bodily fluid touches their skin or gets into their blood system or into their saliva is what they're going to take a look at. they may even simplify some of these outfets that the health care workers-- outfits that the health care workers put on, we were in alabama, for workers headed to west africa put on, to put them on takes 20 minutes, to get them off 15, you need a buddy to make sure you're going through right procedures. they're going to isolate and 150 investigators on the ground. lots of work ahead of them antonio. >> have they given any indication what they think happened in dallas, where to use the cdc's words the protocol breach occurred? >> reporter: you know, that's the big question right now. you know they've interviewed this health care would beer who has the infection now, over and
over the cdc has said they have asked her step by step where could something are gone wrong? she can't think of anything. now they've also talked to the other 70 people who cawr cared r thomas eric duncan who is now deceased, they are shifting through protocols and figuring out where the breach went down, as the cdc calls it. but right now as we talk they do not know the answer to that question. >> robert ray at the cdc in atlanta we appreciate you joining us. for more, i'm joined from basil germany, president obama had a meeting on monday to define steps that washington can take so the health care system can be better armed to treat the are ebola outbreak, is this really
up to the states? >> well, the answer is yes for both. the way the public health system is set up in the united states is that it's driven by the states. the centers for disease control which is a federal agency as you know, can only issue guidelines and give recommendations and provide laboratory backup. they're doing basically everything that they can do and they've issued almost daily updates in the guidelines for states to follow. >> you know this is something that has been brought up a lot over the past week or so about what the response is like across the country and whether it's being communicated properly to people at hospitals around the nation. and you know i heard you know one quote describing our health system saying it's a fragmented uncoordinated national health system. so is the cdc or anyone in the federal level really in charge? because there's no real ability to enforce their guidelines. >> that's the government.
that's united states government. and that's the way the public health is set up in this country. it's knot efficient. but it's -- it's not efficient but it's what we have, that's how we set it up. if you want to change that and i think in this particular case in a catastrophe like this, potential catastrophe you would have to have both houses of congress act pass a law the president sign it giving away the states authority to deal with ebola. i'm not sure the chance he for that of passing are. >> we've seen all sorts of issues in texas, a lot of decisions were left to county officials and to the state. you say texas is going to be an example of what not to do in cases like this. >> yes. we're going to learn from our mistakes. i look at ebola similar to how we look at a plane crash. when a plane crashes today, it's study steivestudied stiivel exts
of authorities in the area. in the case of public health this is a disease that can cross state lines too so there's no reason why we couldn't do that as well but right now public health is left up to the states. >> and because of that you're seeing all these reports about how the inconsistencies are kind of across the board. there are inconsistencies that people are dealing with. how concerned are you that this could become a bigger problem as a result? >> well, maybe the problem is a little bit exaggerated. because everybody in this country now is hyper-aware of ebola the effects of eeivel and when they have to -- of ebola and what they have to do. they are looking to the cdc for guidance. the cdc is giving them the
guidance but it's up to the state to implement the guidance. some states are doing it better than others. >> they stepped into it a little bit, cdc official frieden, said the protocols caused the nurse to contract ebola. nurses around the nation are upset, they are saying, don't blame the nurses. bonnie castillo, of the nurses united said, don't scapegoat, is she right? >> you bring up two points. one is why did a nurse following supposedly all the guidelines and using all the protective equipment why did a nurse get infected when on the other hand the emt and the ambulance, the
people who took care of him, the family who were around him for three days too many, actually, why did this nurse get it? there's really only two reasons. there's a breach in protocol, which is somebody has got to admit something went wrong or there's a system failure. and there can be system failures the way we have it set up. i don't know what they are. nobody knows what they are. but it's one of those two things that caused this nurse to get infected. >> yeah and you make the very important point that the nurse got infected but his family members who are in very close contact with him after he was infected ended up not getting it. >> right. and the same thing with the people in the ambulance. same people that he first had contact with in the emergency room. these people had much more direct exposure so why didn't they get infected, it's a good question, a rhetorical question. we need to investigate figure out why she got infected and fix
that problem. >> so many important questions, dr. robert murphy thank you so much for your time. talking about the battle in syria and iraq. agreed to let the u.s. use its interlikt air base. secretary of state john kerry said sunday the battle in kobani didn't define coalition forces against i.s.i.l. >> it's a tragedy what's happening there and we don't diminish that but we have said from day one it is going to take a period of time to bring the coalition thoroughly to the table and to begin to focus where we ought to be focusing first, which is in iraq. >> for more i'm joined from orlando by michael prejent, who served as a senior official on iraqi affairs, deployed to mos
mosul. while anbar apparently is close to falling to i.s.i.l. u.s. officials told the wall street journal that saving anbar is not a high priority. we just heard secretary kerry say that the battle for kobani doesn't define coalition strategy. my question is what does? >> the issue of saying the fall of kobani and the fall of hit, taking territory, even if we have u.s. air strikes in both syria and iraq bodes well for i.s.i.s. and does not look good for our u.s. strategy. >> that fall of hit involves more than 100,000 people being displaced again not that far really from baghdad. so are events outrunning the
administration strategy, not just in syria but in iraq? >> the thing about al-hit and being al anbar, i.s.i.s. is going to have success in these areas as it pushes closer to the sectarian fault lines in and around baghdad, especially the baghdad belts. it's not surprising that hit fell, the sunni military that makes up the iraq security forces in alan bauer doesn't necessarily have essential government. you have police units in alan bauer that don't trust the sixth 9th iraqi divisions that are miles away because of the sectarian makeup of those units. the sunni soldiers are easily threatened by i.s.i.s. and as they move into these areas you are going to see the iraqi security forces dissolve back
into the area and back to pagd, in the shia areas where they are willing to fight. >> talking about that area, u.s. apache helicopters did fly missions to the concern that i.s.i.l. was getting too close to seizing locations around baghdad's airport. the airport itself at great risk but can can they endanger operations? >> well, if they continue to move towards the airport they'll be able to launch mortar rounds, they'll be able to conduct rocket attacks and they'll be able to unfortunately bribe some security officials to allow car bombs into the area. something that they were able to do in baghdad. i was -- i hope that sectarianism was a principal position. unfortunately it can be bought off for $200 to have a iraqi security force from the shia sect basically turn a blind eye that allow a car bomb to come into the area. and that's something that we saw a lot in baghdad from 2005 to
2008. >> well we're seeing it now. i.s.i.l. is regularly conducting suicide bombings in baghdad. on sunday 58 were killed, another 17 at least on monday and against i.s.i.l. troops not that far away from baghdad. you are talking about long distance attacks or not so long distance attacks on the airport. can they do the same thing on baghdad and cause chaos? >> the areas they are attacking are shia areas, how did that car bomb pass iraqi security forces checkpoints? unfortunately it is $200 to look the other way and a lot of times this stuff happens. they can, i do see an increase in car bombs in baghdad and artillery strikes on the international zone, artillery meaning mortar attacks on the international zone as well as the airport. maybe not as disruptive as the media will play them out to be but still things that shouldn't be happening. >> and what about kobani the siege there, what message are we
sending i.s.i.l. in the region especially the kurds when when we help the kurds just enough to keep them fighting and dying in what seems to be a losing cause. >> the issue with the air strikes in and around kobani about a week ago is they're only happening at nighttime so i.s.i.s. had freedom of movement during the daytime. they were able to move tanks and artillery during the daytime without fear of a coalition air strike. that's changed. unfortunately i.s.i.s. is already in kobani. it's harder to target them when -- >> when they're in an urban environment. >> right. it's hard to target them that way. >> when the u.s. announces a deal to use turkish air bases on sun, the turks them come back on monday and say it's not true. we also have a war of words in the united states where we've got susan rice saying we don't need to reevaluate our strategy over there and john mccain
saying we do. >> the issue between turkey and u.s. might be under the table agreements where they will say we will help you just don't announce it. the thing with turkey said what did they say to i.s.i.s. to secure those 48 hostages? what assurance did they give i.s.i.s. that they would not help the u.s. in syria? both secretary kerry and susan rice saying they're part of the coalition and turkey sayings they're not. there is a strategic message that we're trying to send to the international community that are not in sync at all. >> michael prejent, nice to have you. >> thanks for having me. >> and now for some more stories around the world. we begin in hong kong where tempers again boiled over as masked men attacked prodemocracy
protesters to try remove barricades. bearing signs enough is enough, descended on the protestors. 19 were arrested and the police were able to forcibly separate the two groups but protesters have begun to rebuild their barricades and police say they will tear some of them down to ease traffic. meantime, hong kong's chief executive added the students were out of control and almost zero chance to force beijing to change its election rules. next we head to the sky as a pair of storms, opposite side of the world. massive storm brought mass floods from arizona to louisiana. northern texas an oil well caught fire when a lightning strike caused a tank holding hundreds of barrels of oil to explode. tens of thousands of people remain without power as the storm continues to swee sweep as
the country. meanwhile in japan typhoon vongeong, deluges, the islands with torrential rains. the storm is expected to hit tokyo on tuesday. now to north korea where kim jong-un has reappeared according to dated state media has put out. newly built housing complex to give field guidance. the dictator hadn't been seen in 30 days, speculation gout to a potential coup. dow down 223 points, 1.4%. the s&p 500 and the nasdaq had similar drops. global fear of ebola and
i.s.i.l, and that's some of what's happening around the world. coming up could the protests in ferguson and st. louis, hurt those it's designed to help. secretary-general's visit to jerusalem turns into the war of words. our social media producer, hermela aregawi. what's tracking hermella? >> the vatican is making headlines.a precurse to a softer stance on homosexuality. while you're watching, let us know what you think. join the conversation @ajconsiderthis and on our facebook page. justice! >> when do we want it? >> now! >> they are running towards base... >>...explosions going off we're not quite sure... >> fault lines
of civil disobedience. in what they called moral monday protests, drawing attention to what they say is police misconduct tornado africa americans. kate and academic nell west. some arrested in standoffs with police in st. louis. the tensions have remained, since the michael brown death two months ago. but a white officer shot and killed another black teenager who allegedly shot at him on october 8th. >> the community has to see the difference in these two cases. they have to realize that certainly they can talk about the issue but we ask that they do it peacefully. >> for more we're joined from st. louis by neil bruntwager.
neil, good to have you with us. we just heard from captain dodson that people need to understand that there's a difference between the michael brown case and the off duty police officer who shot and killed vondurant meyers after meyers shot at the officer but it hasn't helped the level of mistrust in the community. >> there's an issue, of course every time there's an officer involved shooting we are going to revisit this. we will whether we want to or not revisit these. >> how are police officers deeming with it? because you -- dealing with it? because you said even the most routine calls are fraught with danger. your conversations with police you hear they are less likely to pull the trigger, the officer in that st. louis shooting last week specifically said he hesitated because of ferguson. you're calling that the ferguson
effect. >> i am. that's an appropriate description. we're going to see this on a lot of levels, that's something that concerns me because of the police officers and the community as well. when a police officer goes out on a call, this incident that occurred at shaw and clem, that police officer said he saw what was a weapon and hesitated because of ferguson. as a consequence he got off three or four shots, that were fired from that young man's weapon. again he hesitated and that hesitation put him at risk, the officer at risk and what happens in a situation where perhaps there are bystanders and we hesitate, and they're at risk? i have a real concern going forward that officers are going to be reluctant to answer calls. i'm concerned that they will when they get there put themselves at risk and others. again it is a conversation we have to have. it's part of the training we're going to have to address going forward but it's a real concern.
>> well, the national review agrees with you. they had a review saying, quote, the latest profiling is taking police action against a black criminal." and they went on to say if a officer backs off of a police situation, in high minority neighborhoods, the police will be the first to suffer. couldn't this be a good thing because we do see so many police shootings throughout the year across the country. >> it can be a good thing. we constantly have to reinvent ourselves, we have to ask questions, are we doing it the right way? that is a function of training. that's always a moving target and we should always be striving to do it better. so having the conversation can good but the problem is at some point you've got to implement and at some point i've got to tell these police officers when
they go on the street, this is what you expect and this is what you have to do in terms of adjusting your conduct appropriately. at some point we have to decide what we want our police departments to do, that's the real question we have going forward, what do we want our police officers to do, what do we want our police departments to do? >> police are obviously working extra shifts. you're on duty all the time now because of these issues that may arise and they're obviously on guard. over the weekend there were some residents who were trying to calm down, get back to normal, showing a better side of the community. here's one. >> the bigots have left a long time ago in our community, the ones left embrace diversity. >> the feeling among protesters if the officer isn't brought up for charges there will never be peace and that this will continue. >> yes,ists , it's a shame.
this conversation has to be a partnership. it can't just be the police department addressing what they need to do. we can only address what needs to happen if there's input from the community at large. these people that are speaking up god love them they need to be there, they need to be a part of this. unfortunately, the partnership is extremely important but now there's a stigma attached to talking to the police department. if you paid attention to what was happening in ferguson when it was happening people were spray painting on the walls, stitches for snitches. what that says is you can't deal with the department, you can't deal with the police department, if you do we're going to ostracize you. >> we saw how captain ron johnson was put in charge of the police response in the aftermath of the michael brown shooting trying the get the community to peacefully protest. is that not working?
it seems like these protests weren't huge but they were significant. >> they were. and again, back to your question, is it working or not? again i have to come back to the question of what do we want our police departments to do. if it's going to be a one sided conversation, if it's only police department fix yourself, it is not going to get fixed. if the community says we truly want to partner with you and figure out how to fix it then you are on the road to fix it approximately. >> appreciate you joining us thank you. a tense standoff at a holy site in jerusalem, israeli police say they locked palestinians inside the al axa mosque. dozens of police say they moved in after they found petrol bombs
at the hole site. no one was injured but after days of clashes at nearby holy sites, u.n. secretary-general ban ki-moon blasted. >> i'm deeply concerned at what i saw the he holy site in jerusalem. >> israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, thought baseless we are threatening holy places. >> washington, d.c, 25 year veteran of the israeli foreign service and deputy prime minister at the israeli facility. ban ki-moon was forceful in his criticism called for an end to the clashes at the holy places.
do you think that will stop? >> it is a very situation which raises a lot of concerns because jerusalem is a very sensitive place. holy to all religions, and so obviously, provocations can lead to counterprovocations or to countermethods of ways to encountering them so clearly both sides need to exercise restrain and treat it very delicately. >> so netanyahu says that israel is obligated to keep the peace at the holy sites in jerusalem. what does that entail? especially if there were you know these preparations for demonstrations and for violence inside the mosque? >> well, we have to make clear that the provocation started on the palestinian side. in the muslim sites themselves of people who pretended to be
worshipers that entered those sites. clearly as you've reported, armed with different molotov cocktails, with different sorts of ammunition. and so they were readying for -- to cause provocation. and israel, israeli forces needed to treat that. then now, stepping into that, id needs to be dealt very sensitively, and delicately but forcefully because this can lead to a further escalation. so it's really important to calm tensions down. and the secretary-general, by calling only putting the onus on one side is not helping at all i'm afraid to say. >> there certainly have been a lot of problems and fighting in that area over the past few decades. and the tensions again, high on a lot of different levels and we are talking about provocations. ban ki-moon called again for jerusalem for israel to end its plan to build more settlements
in east jerusalem. he called that as a clear violation of international law. he said otherwise we're going to see war and conflict on a yearly basis. does he have a point? this certainly doesn't help the peace process. >> well the united nations and israel it's not first time they are at odds with one another. and clearly u.n. policy is very clear on settlements as israeli policy on settlements is clear which states practically that settlements will be dealt with in the context of final state of negotiations between israelis and palestinians but wuns negotiations are resumed settlements will be on the table and up for negotiation hopefully we will see a process soon. because we're seeing these movements the egypt and around the cairo conference that occurred yesterday, through the gaza reconstruction efforts and hopefully, that can lead to perhaps a resumption of peace
talks between israelis and palestinians in which settlements will come for discussion. >> right but there are some positive signs though. the problem though is that palestinians see the settlements as something that pushes off any chance of a two state solution. i should say the criticism was not one-sided. prime minister netanyahu really wanted to talk a lot about gaza and he claimed that u.n. personnel returned rockets found at u.n. facilities during this summer's war, to hamas and he said that the rocket attacks from hamas was what broke the neutrality. when hamas used the bases at the schools. especially in this conversation between the two leaders. >> it is an excellent question and as i said they have been at odds with one another in the past. it's not the first time there's disagreements but i think these disagreements of today are being played up a bit because right now at this point both sides
what they need to concentrate on is the gaza reconstruction efforts. and they've worked out this extensive very detailed agreement, the u.n, israel and the palestinian authority led by mahmoud abbas. that agreement needs to be implemented in order to allow to facilitate international efforts to reconstruct gaza with a look art security and enabling this process to occur while making sure that it's secure that it's monitored. that the product cannot fall into the wrong hands. >> the commitment is large, $5 billion pledged to rebuild gaza, including another $200 million from the united states. the donors were clear that this was the last time they would pay, leading to a two-state solution, about this cycle of violence destruction and then rebuilding, do you think that pressure will have an impact that we might see some movement
here on the peace process? >> i'm very hopeful actually that this gaza reconstruction effort although not directly tied at the moment with a viable peace process will enable at a later stage to resume the peace process. because clearly gaza reconstruction is one part of the equation. but you need to have a dialogue between israelis and palestinians in order to avoid to prevent clashes recurring in the future. so clearly, there needs to be a round of gaza reconstruction effort needs to be a push for resumption of negotiations between israelis and palestinians. >> danker bell very good for you to join us, thank you for your time. >> thank you too. >> what's happening on the web let's check in with hermella. >> a new vatican document signals a different approach by the vatican. 200 church leaders this week, the senate of bishops say "home
owe"homosexuals, have somethingo offer to the community. are communities capable of providing that accepting and valuing their sexual orientation without compromising catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony? a pastoral earthquake, a jesuit priest that we have had on "consider this," rome based priest charles salmon says, dearest everyone, it's too soon to be excited, too soon to be upset. weekly newspaper tweeted, the change in tone in 2014 is remarkable even if the doctrine itself is unchangeable. let us know what you think osh n
twitter, @ajconsiderthis. >> thank you hermella. >> you're welcome. >> a nightmare might be growing worse, we'll look at our growing resistance to antibiotics and that growing problem for public health. why you shouldn't read to your children off e-readers or tablets. surprising research that shows why story time with your kids should have less screen time.
and sicken many others. declared antibiotic resistance a dire problem. for almost 40 years scientists have been trying to find out if the use of antibiotics on farms is the missing link in the problems doctors and patients are facing. >> we're seeing a lot more patients that were previously normally healthy have to be admitted because they've gone through multiple outpatient courses of antibiotics, you don't have a normally healthy 30-year-old woman come this who's never been in a hospital with a resistant urinary tract infection that's moved into her blood. where did she get that organism from? >> david hoffman, his new documentary, the trouble with antibiotics, appears on tuesday, november the 14th. david, good to have you. you powerfully hammer home the
point, including a deadly outbreak at the nih a few years ago, that antibiotic resistance is a growing health issue. let's start with the broadest question. why has it taken so long for action to be taken? >> a couple of reasons. it is a global problem not an american one. resistance is rising all over the world. secondly for a long time for decades of 60s and 70s, we had new antibiotics coming along. that started to trail off and the pipeline is running dry. the rise of resistance bacteria, not resistant to one bacteria but to two or three. the science advisors said there was a lot of issue. >> how clear does it that
antibiotics being fed to animals or animals being treated with those antibiotics is causing those cases of resistance in humans? because farmers renters and others who have insisted that agriculture is not the main culprit. >> i know they've said that. let's walk back though for just a second. we know we have a problem and some of that problem comes from our own abuse and overuse of antibiotics as people. our clinicians gave them uunnecessarily. we are vulnerable, i think we have to ask is that the whole problem and i think that if 70% of the antibiotics sold in this country are going to agriculture then society should ask altogether, is this also part of the problem? and to just write it off and say they're not the main culprits that's a head in the sand approach that we can't afford
anymore. >> and the nightmare scenario one you bring up is you said the antibiotic pipeline is drying up and if we don't have new antibiotics to treat some of these resistant strains, somebody could have a strep throat and a scraped knee and we would be back to the past and those things could be deadly. >> people forget that we had a time in this country when every nine women who gave birth out of a thousand died in childbirth. we don't want to go back to that. these drugs were really miracle drugs and we need to preserve them and protect their potency and power. if agriculture contributed not the whole part but part of it. we want to ask ourselves do we want to take the risk of not doing anything? >> now i know there is a phase out going on in feet feeding antibotdics to animals just
for -- antibiotics to animals just for growth purposes. but so much of the money pharmaceuticals are making are selling antibiotics for animals does that bring up the danger that they will not invest in new antibiotics because there is not enough money to the made? >> i think you're conflating two issues. in the case of drugs for animals the fda has said, this year and last year, we have voluntarily -- we have asked the companies the drug companies to voluntarily shifor shift the lef these -- the legal use of these drugs to promoting use in disease. those two steps are just taking effect now. all the drug companies said they would voluntarily change that label. so i would ask the question: what's going to result from
that? will there be actually a reduction in the quantity of antibiotics or are we just changing the words on the label? we won't know that for a while because we want to see how it works. >> one of the scarier things that the documentary brings up is that resistance to one antibiotic has been now found to possibly lead to resistance in other antibiotics so you could really have kind of a chain effect that could make things even worse? >> and this co-selection has a lot to do with gent genetics ri? one of the things the bacteria like a school bus carry the genes around. they help with resistance, they help the bacteria figure out how to fight the antibiotics, can teach the other bacteria how to
resist other antibiotics. might have a different kind of impact because it could create resistance to an antibiotic that we really care about for human health, something that's very important. >> all right. antibiotics of course changed human existence for better dramatically, within the last century. so this is certainly a problem that needs to be figured out and again, the trouble with antibiotics brings up those issues, it premiers tuesday on pbs. it will also be available on frontline's website. david hoffman, thanks for coming. >> thanks for having me. reading from e-readers doing them more harm than good. and more optimistic about their future than we are our data dive is next from across the country and around the world. >> the future looks uncertain... >> real news keeping you up to date. >> an informed look on the night's events, a smarter start to your day. mornings on al jazeera america
>> today's data dive finds more hope for the future around the world than here in the u.s. a new pew poll found the overwhelming majority of people in emerging and developing countries even the middle east see a brighter future for our kids than we do here in america. the pew research, found that over half felt would be worst for them than their parents. more than 60% of people polled in nicaragua or ghana. while emerging markets are bummish -- bullish, oop the pew
survey also asks people what it takes to get ahead. education and working hard are the top two answers. but a majorities of people worldwide think success is out of their control even in advanced countries like south korea, germany and italy. a little further down the list being born a male. 5% even credit bribes. 538.com compared the ten richest and the ten poorest countries on this and find, poorest countries put a lot of stock in luck or things outside your control including whom you know. but americans thought connections were important too more than other rich companies. coming up, story time versus screen time. why you might want to stay away from reading to your kids from a
>> curling up with an e-reader might be a nightly ritual for adults but is it smart parenting to read to a child in a tablet? research shows that that is less beneficial than using a traditional book in terms of reading comprehension and language skills. this despite the supposed benefits from many interactive story apps. so as technology advances should we try okeep story time old fashioned? joining me from philadelphia, julie morris, good to have you
with us julia. the american academy of pediatrics has repeatedly encouraged parents to read to their kids as early as possible from birth. the basic question is why isn't reading reading no matter what the source? >> so the study that you referred to that we published last year, found that when you're reading with a child, the extent that you have a rich verbal social interaction and a conversation around the story and engage in what we call dialogic reading, a conversation between the parent and the child concerning the pages of the book the pictures and the story and relating it to the child's own life, that kind of rich social interaction and rich verbal interaction is what supports reading comprehension, preliteracy skills, the things we all hope to instill in our
children. but in the case of an electronic book, when children wanted to touch the pictures, they wanted to hear the sound effects, that interaction was derailed. parents and children talked more about behavior, don't touch that, wait until it finishes reading the story. there wasn't as much opportunity to talk about the story and related to the child's life in meaningful ways, which had an effect on parent child interaction and ultimately child story comprehension. >> it's a story on both sides because parents are engaging their kids in that back and forth that you're talking about and relating the story to the child's life but the child is more distracted by the tablet than he or she would be by a book. >> correct, correct. and this -- i don't think that electronic books are going to disappear from children's lives
or that screen media is going to disappear from children's lives but i do think that we have a ways to go in terms of designing them in a way that facilitates the kinds of parent child interaction and kind of verbal interaction and social interaction in a way we know is most beneficial for children's learning. it would be wonderful if we could focus as a country, the cieps of apps that do celebrate these kinds of interactions right now -- >> that is part of the question, these aren't just a standard e-book that you and i might read. they're apps and come with all sorts of bells and whistles that additionally distract children, they have audio and video clips and puzles puzzles that distrac. >> they blur the line between a toy and a game and a book.
it's tricky because you know in some ways you don't want parents to think oh i'll give this to my child and that will satisfy the reading requirement or the reading suggestion that the aap makes for day because really at this point they're not getting the same kind of social interaction that they are in a traditional reading context and part of it is because it is more attractive oa child to have game features and sound effects and all of that. but really, if what you're looking to do is establish preliteracy skills, then the state-of-the-art right now is reading a traditional book. it doesn't mean that you should never show your child, you know, e-books and never read them with your child. in fact if you can read them with your child and enjoy the experience and talk about what the two of you are experiencing together, the point is that no matter what context you're in, if you can interact with your child -- >> it's a good thing. >> in a positive and verbal way
it's going to be good. >> right. also the american academy of pediatrics, a different recommendation which is that children under 2 not get any screen time and only two hours per day for children over 2. so when you're looking at these e-books that are targeted, apps, things going on, do you see that as more being the screen time that the american academy of pediatrics are against or more as reading? >> well, currently with the state of things i see it as screen time. >> really. >> and that's what our research has suggested. now as a caveat we only studied children age 3 and age 5 so we actually did not study e-books in really, really tiny children and early early toddlers and i'm 100% behind the aap's recommendation. there is no sense of added benefit for showing screens to
children age 2. zero evidence to it. if you could see a really clear evidence, and research hasn't caught up, not seeing that. we know it works for young infants, we know social interaction is the way to go. it's the same question we had about television 20 years ago, 30 years ago. and the research is pretty clear. kids don't learn from tvs as well as they learn from people and they're not learning from e-books in the same way, our research anyway, three-year-olds are not learning in the same way they learn from traditional books. >> it must be a fascinating time for all these things going on. dr. julia parish morris, thanks for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> that's it for now. would you go to jail for your principles? a new york times journalist.
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