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tv   Inside Story 2018 Ep 2  Al Jazeera  January 3, 2018 3:32am-4:01am +03

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of kim jong un's intentions saying he may be trying to drive a wedge between the u.s. and south korea the palestinian president's spokesman says a news really no which makes it hard to hand over parts of jerusalem is equivalent to a declaration of war israeli m.p.'s passed the bill which means two thirds of the knesset must now approve giving up territory at least thirty people have died in peru after the bus they were travelling in plunged eighty meters of a cliff on to rocky beach the bus was carrying fifty seven passengers to the capital lima when it collided with a truck along a narrow stretch of highway known as the devil's curve rescuers had to climb down to the beach and have been battling the tide to recover bodies nigeria's military says more than seven hundred people held hostage by the group boko. have managed to escape their found may near mon gone close to the north eastern border with chad those are the headlines the news continues here on al-jazeera after
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inside story. donald trump said jerusalem is the capital of israel and now israeli m.p.'s have passed a new law making it harder for any future government to compromise with the palestinians one hopes then for a two state solution this is inside story. the a.
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hello welcome to the program i'm adrian finnegan in the words of one israeli opposition m.p. when jerusalem burns everything burns naaman shive fears a newly passed law in the knesset could lead to more unrest in the middle east the israeli law makes it harder to divide the contested capital of jerusalem in any future deal with the palestinians and it reduces the palestinian population of the city by one third new borders have been drawn up so that several arab neighborhoods are now outside jerusalem it could all have a dramatic impact on any peace deal between israel and palestine with some saying it's yet another fatal blow to the two state solution we'll get to our guests in just a moment but first mohammed jan jhoom reports from west jerusalem. at its core this new law would require that eighty of one hundred twenty knesset members who are a full two thirds of the knesset would now be required to approve any future legislation that would attempt to divide jerusalem essentially that would ensure
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that jerusalem would remain off of the negotiating table when it comes to any future peace talks of course that would complicate an already very complicated situation now this vote comes on the heels of another contentious vote vote that happened on sunday this was a vote by the central committee of the likud party they voted to annex large portions of the occupied west bank now the first thing to remember is that that resolution they voted on is not binding and also we've not yet heard any reaction from prime minister benjamin netanyahu as to whether he will indorse that resolution and actually try to take it to the knesset to get it passed into law but that resolution after it passed was causing great consternation and anger amongst palestinians of course palestinian president mahmoud abbas said that this was considered an aggression against the palestinian people taken together with this new voter really shows just how tenuous the situation remains and how uncertain things really are on the ground here. which are
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islam has so much significance for so many people that it's long been a sticking point in the peace process jerusalem became the religious sense of judaism when the holy temple was built around three thousand years ago the crucifixion of jesus christ around a thousand years later made the city central to the christian faith and the city is hugely significant to muslims to home to al aqsa mosque the third holiest place in islam the creation of the nation of israel in one nine hundred forty seven divided the city west jerusalem was deemed part of israel and the east put under jordanian control that lasted until the six day war in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven when israeli troops seems to east jerusalem that half of the city was put on the israeli occupation ever since despite the un declaring the israeli invasion illegal . let's bring in our guests for today's discussion joining us from amman in jordan is. a political analyst and senior fellow with the institute for palestine studies
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from jerusalem which joined by robi sable a former legal advisor to israel's foreign ministry and professor of international law at hebrew university and also jeffrey aaronson resident scholar at the middle east institute he specializes in the arab israeli conflict he joins us from washington d.c. gentlemen welcome to you will geoffrey we'll start with you first this was an amendment to an existing law that the knesset passed what do you make of it well in its practical effect i think it's left to be determined i think more importantly it's a reflection of the of the absence of any degree of consensus on the part of the major parties that are party to to the conflict about how to proceed in the past the accords for better or worse were the framework through which these kinds of issues were being debated framed in addressed with the failure of the obama administration's efforts to to
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progress on that front we've seen that this is a one manifestation of the costs that are being borne by the obama administration's failure that is the struggle to determine the diplomatic agenda for the future and this is a reflection of israel's attempt to put on the tape table especially fait accompli about how to address the city's future in any consensual effort to resolve it diplomatically broadly sable and in jerusalem human rights groups of war and the what's really going on here is an ethnic cleansing in order to build a great a jewish jerusalem of a right. there's no i think clave cleansing in fact the muslim population has grown tremendously into a slim since sixty seven the issue of jerusalem is on the table in the also the
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agreements we agreed to negotiated and as you pointed out in the opening there moves them holy sites we'll wealth them we're willing to negotiate some special status it's worthwhile recording that we've already negotiated with the back to can a special status for the catholic holy sites by the way the p.l.o. did as well and we israel is winning and it said it's willing to negotiate with the islamic world a special status for islamic holy sites the law doesn't change anything or make it more difficult to reach knesset approval for an agreement but it's worth bearing in mind that this law like any other law in the israeli parliament can be changed by a sixty one out of one hundred twenty majority and in the past by way it's worth recalling there was a law forbidding the israelis to go shit with the p.l.o. the moment p.l.o. recognize israel began negotiating we simply repeal the law so this law like other laws can be changed by the knesset so say saying i'm in the lore it would essentially become null and void if any agreement is reached on the on the status
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of jerusalem as part of any any future deal so why then did it did it need amending . but i wouldn't count non-board want to say it can be repealed as laws in the possibly new appeal it's a gesture it suggests of the myth of the those the white way the coalition agreement government it's unhappy with the situation and they want they're making a declaration but basically i think it's stuck it's just a declaration it doesn't change the fact that israel or israeli governments have been willing to negotiate the issues ok and what we need to do is to simply sit down and negotiate robberies it's a gesture but but again i come back to their why do it even the inflammatory nature of it into the upset that it was going to cause. politicians are politicians of politicians they have their own constituency they want to make a declaration but it doesn't change the facts on the ground ok one rabbani in jordan what do you make of this what you just heard is is this this lore an attempt
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to alter facts on the ground as far as you're concerned very much so and and i think as a previous speaker made clear as far as the israeli government is concerned jerusalem is a purely religious issue for palestinians and the only thing that israel will be willing to negotiate is access for palestinian muslims and christians to their respective holy sites whereas in fact what's happening here is that israel has sovereignty or is claiming sovereignty illegally over all of jerusalem and has illegally occupied and annexed east jerusalem and i think this latest measure that it's taken in additional to the draft or the. resolution that was passed by the could yesterday should be seen as israel seeking to take advantage of the recent american declaration recognizing israeli sovereignty over
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jerusalem or rather recognizing exclusively israeli sovereignty over jerusalem and i think it's now very much a question for the international community particularly those who have influence over israel and for the palestinians themselves. to push back and to ensure that american further american support for israel and presumably american silence on this latest measure doesn't lead to get further facts on the ground by by israel see you think that these these measures are designed to preempt any future peace efforts. very but so or perhaps more accurately to ensure that any future peace effort or diplomatic process conforms primarily to israel's vision of what
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a final disposition of the occupied territories should be in other words that all of east jerusalem with the exception of some of its arab suburbs that the main settlement blocs the jordan valley and so on that these should all be under if not permanent israeli sovereignty then at least under permanent israeli control of control and that palestinians should basically be limited to a few bantu stands here and there and perhaps an independent entity and the gaza strip jeffrey around this bill was first proposed the amendments to the law was proposed last year to what extent could it only gone through the knesset though once u.s. president donald trump had recognized jerusalem as israel's capital. well it was certainly the american decision is certainly an important factor but but it basically only gave a tailwind to these kinds of efforts which are proceeding on a track in
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a sense independent of the trump administration's prior preferences we have again the consequence of the failure of a consensual framework for diplomatic engagement and an israeli effort particularly one mounted by israel's right wing to create an agenda that everyone will have to conform or accommodate themselves to so trump was certainly not playing chess with himself when he made his historic declaration but these these efforts are have been underway for quite some time there's a history on juror jerusalem excuse me going back to nine hundred eighty if not earlier so trump was important in crystallizing these kinds
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of concerns and aspirations on the part of israel's right wing they weren't critical to it really sable in jerusalem this legislation also the stablish is a new local council for the palestinian neighborhoods the now effectively cut off from jerusalem what are the what are the implications of that. well i think it's correcting an artificial increase of jerusalem in sixty seven when certain av palestinian villages were attached to jews them there's no logic to them being in jerusalem part of to some they weren't part of jerusalem under did any and will it also raises an interesting think question as whether you can. divide different have different regimes in different parts of jerusalem which if i was a palestinian i would pay careful attention to as the trumps recognition he recognise the reality all states in fact treat west jerusalem as israel's capital including abstains include egypt and jordan it was simply recognizing the reality
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come that a final point i would like to make is the palestinians must sit and try and negotiate with us they'll be no international regime which will satisfy them or else we have to sit together and make difficult decisions we israelis will have to make difficult decisions but so do the palestinians when i think it's one can say that when an ab states have sat down with else and declare they want to reach a final peace agreement that is egypt and jordan israel is proved itself to be very willing to make concessions but for that we need a partner to sit with us and say yes we're going to make a final peace agreement but here i don't remember what we can do that with about a zillion the member of the knesset who proposed the bill said at the time that its goal was to prevent concessions as part of any diplomatic deal jerusalem will never be on the to go sailing table she said jerusalem is the capital of the jewish people are and will remain the capital of the jewish people for all eternity the state of israel will not allow for the establishment of
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a palestinian state with its capital in jerusalem and that ultimately is what it's all about isn't it. it's worthwhile looking at the texas tech did not say jews there can be no range of an ordered set as you need a special majority to prove it from this one can learn that they all they do understand they will have to be some special agent they want to make sure it's has a large majority eighty but even this majority can be changed by a different job in the knesset but in principle israel is said in the oslo agreements we will negotiate as various issues in jerusalem including the religious issue and we are willing to negotiate but again we need a partner say yes we got to make peace with you and then we can get negotiate one would you make about. well first of all i think it's quite clear that what's happening in jerusalem in terms of. hiving off these arab suburbs it's basically a demographic engineering seeking to maximize the proportion of jews and minimize
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the proportion of palestinian muslims and christians in the city second of all if this is all about recognizing reality. then fine let's recognize north korea as a legitimate nuclear power let's recognize the legitimacy of the russian an expression of crimea and we can recognize all kinds of other things under the rubric of we're simply accommodating ourselves to reality it's quite clear the what's happening now is that israel is seeking to take advantage of the on the one hand unprecedented american support for israel's extremist agenda and on the other hand the unprecedented weakness of not only the palestinians but the herbs more generally and on the other hand the growing disinterest and preoccupation all swear of other members of the international community to seek to
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impose a permanent settlement of the israeli palestinian conflict through these kinds of realities that it hopes that first the united states and then other prominent members of the international community will recognize and it's of essentially based on permanent control of palestinian territory and the permanent subjugation of the palestinian people to put it right back at the beginning of that answer when you were discussing this new law or its implications in the council that's going to be formed you would agree then that or you your view is that the establishment of this new council for the palestinian areas is in effect a prelude to stripping palestinians of of residency and barring them from jerusalem . quite likely i mean it i think it should be seen as an attempt at a graphic engineering to maximize. the proportion of israeli jews and minimize the
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proportion of policy in muslims and christians and the holy city and if you first establish this council separate from the existing you know supplier enjoyments and so on i taking it for granted that a subsequent step will indeed be to try to reclassify. these areas or suburbs or whatever you want to call them somehow being outside of jerusalem and therefore their residence like those of the of the rest of the occupied palestinian territories will be in effect banned from entering those areas of jerusalem that israel has annexed jeffrey. where does this leave the peace process and the two state solution well those are two separate questions the peace process as we've come to understand it since the post seventy three era is is over
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it has been for some time there hasn't been an agreement between israel and the p.l.o. since nineteen ninety five i believe with the signing of the all slow to agreement so it's been quite some time since there's been any measurable definable. progress on the diplomatic front according to the osce low for formula so in that sense the peace process is is. is dead what we see here are efforts to reconstruct some sort of prior process but it's based on entirely. did different principles than the ones that inform dos lo this one is you unilateral promoted essentially by israel with affective u.s. support to to set a diplomatic agenda defined by israel and defined by some of the most extreme
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elements in israel who are determined to use the rubric of creating facts as the tenet template for creating a new reality that the international community will have no choice but to accommodate and the response of the trump administration and their explicit. in a sense indoor endorsement of this policy of creating facts is a tremendous achievement on israel's part certainly in the post nine hundred sixty seven era ravi's able to what do you want to respond to that. two issues first of all the residents of jerusalem will be transferred or moved to different municipalities who remain israel wasn't and in fact if one wanted to transfer them let's say to the p.a. to balance tamil thought the one would need eighty members of the knesset to do so
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so they're not losing their residency the second issue is what trump recognized doesn't drop by denies was a legal reality not just a physical reality every state in the world decides what its capital is to use them as means is always capital for seventy years it's been recognized effected by all states including as i said how the states alabama passages present their credentials to the israeli president in jerusalem signed treaties into islam all states recognize a legal reality that is all issues i'm skeptical however the issue of east jerusalem is on the negotiating table the difficult issues and that is over maine's willing to negotiate more nobody i know you would respond to the british short on time here what a move the discussion on what options the palestinians have now in the face of this new. well the international community is extremely clear that israel's annexation of occupied east jerusalem is null and void and the palestinian priority at this point should be to focus its efforts on on the one hand the
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mobilization of its own people and secondly through the re internationalization of the question of palestine to ensure that the illegality of israel's presence in the occupied territories including the illegality of not only israel's measures but it's very presence in east jerusalem becomes once again a or becomes a prominent agenda a prominent item on the international agenda so it needs to mobilize its own people and mobilize the international community and i think will first and foremost require a different and more effective palestinian leadership than that which exists as president jeffrey ronson would you would you agree with that. yeah more of the same only do it better and quicker. but what about. further unrest in the occupied territories is this going is there
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a fear now that this law could lead to that jeffrey i mean are we heading what i'm trying to ask is are we heading towards a third intifada do you think. well we have been we've been describing the potential for a third intifada since the second intifada ended. the fact of the matter is is that one one hopes that the violence and confrontation will be minimized however what we see here is we see the absence of any structures that can contain that kind of outbreak we don't have a consensual understanding between israel and the p.l.o. the united states has not been been an effective contributor to to creating that kind of consensus the international community itself is distracted and tired of the palestine conflict so we don't see too many mechanisms in place to
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constrain. a d.d. generation of. interaction on the ground people have already died in these last months specifically as a consequence of us decisions and we can see these kinds of actions in the knesset as only further inflaming the kind of opposition that is currently stirring throughout the occupied territories let me say would you want to respond to that and also it's that tomorrow and the robot his point about. the palestinian leadership what israel preferred to be to go see a thing the future status of jerusalem with a new more dynamic palestinian leadership. it's obviously not for us to decide who the palestinian leadership is but i would make the point that there's no point in talking about mobilizing international community because for a certain extent this is the palestinian tragedy feeling that the un or the international community will negotiate for them they should look i think the
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example of the late president sadat and that king hussein who sat with us made difficult decisions recognized israel's right to exist as a jewish state but had hard demands which we said that's the only way there's no other way the international community is not going to war borders between us is not going make acquaintance the palestinians have to sit with us and i understand it's difficult for me to do it but to mystically will eventually do so gentlemen i'm afraid we're going to have to end the discussion many thanks indeed to all of you moral bonnie sable and to jeffrey ronson as always thank you for watching don't forget you can see the program at any time just by going to the website at al jazeera dot com for further discussion on this issue join us on our facebook page on facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter i handle at a.j. inside story for me adrian figure the whole team here in doha thanks for watching we'll see you again i i think
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