tv The Listening Post 2018 Ep 38 Al Jazeera October 20, 2018 11:32am-12:01pm +03
a great and outrage and speak up because we need every voice i rejoiced matters it's not enough that all of course is our silence and president we don't hear from them because now i want to say anything because that they said the status quo so is global outrage is very much needed it's needed to help the ones back home and to reshape the narrative and to change the situation our else we're all going to stand hostile to the straight out of. a money thank you very much for joining us we appreciate it thank you. josh in the executive director at the arab center of washington d.c. he was small he's friend and says saudi arabia's explanation as not at all. it doesn't make sense. it's just mind boggling that after all this preparation
and revisiting the issue that they will come up with a story like that. there are tapes frankly and i hope that turkish government soon would release those tapes and they are both you know and video even though they deny the existence of that video at least one of the agencies in turkey does have that and has shared only a small segment of it with u.s. counterparts just the last twenty four hours that video shows exactly what happened was entered the building he met for a few minutes with the consul general to discuss his papers that he needed and he was immediately attacked by this gang of killers that were sent specifically to stumble to to actually liquidate him it wasn't an accidental death it wasn't a fist fight to the point where the consul general on tape is allegedly screaming
please do not do it here you are getting me in trouble end of quote the intelligence community has been the leading institution involved in this crime. firing of the five top leaders. of that institution is justified but i'm sure they need to be investigated and they need to be restructured. they shouldn't be engaging in a crime of this crime of this magnitude however to put them how mad pencil man in charge i mean dennis like you know what in the fox in charge of the henhouse it is unacceptable morally it is unacceptable legally i believe and i agree with human rights organizations worldwide that call today for a transparent independent open and. to get into this crime preferably by a united nations agency and to go after the perpetrators of course
you know even the saudis that meant that they have eighteen people in custody that's fifteen plus they have more apparently they need to pursue this matter seriously because frankly this has become an existential conflict for the kingdom of saudi arabia as they heard earlier u.s. president on all tromso that he believes the saudi person of events he also confirmed that he does not want to cancel any business or arms deals with saudi arabia. and as i tell you have to work you know this with congress congress is very interested in this one and will be working with congress but i would prefer. if there is going to be some form of sanction or what we may determine to do if anything because this was a lot of people they're talking about and people pretty high up but i would prefer that we don't use as retribution canceling one hundred ten billion dollars worth of work which means six hundred thousand jobs i know it sounds easy and it sounds good
in a lot of people have said all just just let's just not sell them one hundred ten billion or i guess you take it a step further let's not sell them four hundred fifty billion which is the largest order in the history of our country i went there to get that order. saudi arabia was my first stop and everyone thought that was unusual but i said i want to order i want to order tremendous amount of stuff but everything you know stuff and everybody stuff and wilbur was there they were four hundred fifty billion dollars there's never been anything like it or trust the last thing i want to do is say we're not going to you know we're not going to supply you with that and therefore would a cut i guess if you add the whole thing up because just for the military it was six hundred thousand. so now if you're talking about that was one hundred ten billion you know you're talking about. over a million jobs you know i'd rather keep the million jobs and i'd rather find
another solution but this was a good first step today. and if they you know lindsey graham said he's very skeptical of on the saudi area are you sure it's a let's get this into a new tension state with the crown prince or the king. to get here so i will go before i start making those statements out of speak to the crown prince and i've spoken to the king i want to speak with the crown prince and you know i think we're getting close to solving a very big problem for a way of bringing more reaction to the saudi announcement harris for such a party with the lead achatz marcus hoskins life and career. for more than thirty years jamal khashoggi enjoyed a privileged position within the saudi royal circle in large part echoing the kingdom's views but also taking risks operating from within to push the boundaries when it came to reform that risk taking would eventually draw the anger of the kingdom's heir apparent. the one time insider crossing the red line hits so
skillfully tried in the past daring to criticize the crown prince mohammed bin salma i still see him as an informer but he is getting old poet within his hand and it would be much better for him to allow a bidding space for the critic for the intellectuals for all your active sort of the media to debate the most important needed transformation going in the country. past wasn't without controversy an advisor to saudi intelligence chief turki al-faisal helping saudi intelligence in afghanistan alongside the much i had seen on osama bin laden an advocate of political islam through the muslim brotherhood but he also championed reforms even praised the crown prince for enacting them but last year he went into self-imposed exile in the united states for comments that angered the saudi leader. seen here with the missing journalist last year has known and worked with the shoji for at least thirty years he was not necessarily
a dissident i disagree with that description he was a loyal saudi citizen he had his own vision of what the country should be doing that type of freedom needs the type of reform it needs and maybe in the final analysis that's what got him in trouble. jamal khashoggi hasn't been seen for two weeks in that time the world's attention has turned to the activities of the king them and more broadly the arab world that has questioned all their governments virtually do anything they want with their citizens they. put them in jail they deny them work sometimes they take away their citizenship of that process of widespread continuing deep or talk or see abuse of power across the arab world is not addressed the depth of your manhood you'll get will be doubly tragic because a saudi journalist with a platform a columnist for the washington post regular spots in u.s. and international t.v.
channels almost two million followers on twitter that someone so high profile could vanish without a trace is shocking it will also have a chilling effect on those who wish to follow his example dorsett jabari al-jazeera i don't think areas director of the gulf study center of qatar university joins us here and why do you think. the saudi arabia is so for in particular holland so miss calculated or underestimated what their reaction to the death of jamal khashoggi would be. i think three reasons one i think he was he presented himself in the last two years as being the pharmacist and he was trying to. raise the price at how little pushback there was to that that he was able to that they presented himself that way and there was
a lot of tough questions from a lot of people about that. this is this is a normal and so that would be a contest when the crown prince or the king comes always they try to do this kind of show for a short time and then the reality appears immediately so this is not really a unique case when you look at the history of saudi arabia so i think the first reason is you know how he presented himself the second reason i think is the american role in station some mistaken in particular and how they perceived. how and how the. look at him as someone who can help the united states on achieving a lot of goals in the region by hugh know the peace process the. normalization with israel and it's a threat and the third season i think it's goes back to the fact that. he tried he tried to convince so does that he's opening up the social i would say freedom for them but don't talk about political freedom so you know there is entertainment to
open sentiment but don't speak about you know women are allowed to drive but there is nothing about particular i think those three reasons i think made him miscalculate the whole thing assume that you know the hundreds of people in jail for the sake of excising what's happening there is no you know human rights organization in the world they criticize all of this but not here to them at all there is no serious criticism from the united states about the human rights situation in saudi arabia i think maybe they perceive they think that even what happens officially would not have any action so they did it with the sick they're really i don't think anyone can vision that. and the u.s. would actually sever ties that's just unrealistic off the table but do you see that there will necessarily have to be some sort of recalibration because of this and still understanding or still so many outstanding questions about what actually happened. i think you know if you look at the in the statement they made.
of course it's not enough it's just the title of. the administration to try to capture it and try to capitalize on it assuming that this is will do assuming that this would this is an amazing opportunity for the new station. i think again there will be a lot of question so does need to answer and those question they will help or actually will not tell the american decision on on moving toward the future because if if the answer is of the so these are not enough or not convincing or not actually meeting the standard of the turkish authority they said actually that mr actually that mr asia will be in real trouble because they're mistaken want to and so does to more information so they can help them actually more information from saudis it means more opportunity for help from the united states listen formation lists i would say. accurate information would not tell the so that and that that is
i think the what what she what we should expect from the i think there will be sort of negotiation between washington early on that you need to make the narrative more convincing so we can help you so what role does turkey play in this case it's a negotiation really between all three of these parties i do believe that still running the whole show run turkey has already started leaking the information they have the they assume. based on what being published assume that they have more accurate information the went to the scene they have photos they have. they say they have videos they have. evidence do you think that those are the types of things that forced saudis hand to began with are you would say so yes i think all of this makes the saudis basically leading the whole thing and i think this is the
authority now they will capitalized on this and say look these are the information available if you speak about it ok we have fifteen names are we are we meet we. do you have the same similar list of we have if you have the different names how how come the consulate so there are more details which make the ahead of so do you actually in terms of running the whole show when it comes to the information releases and the nation of what's happening now the question about the budget what what would happen about the course of the budget so i think still the on in the show and they will be i think what the. who would close the file is to do what they would write the last summer's of the report would be closing the file and so many more questions you so much for joining us but as the hours favor a shade it and thank you for joining us for this special coverage that we have had of the developments coming out of saudi arabia as they have acknowledged that saudi
journalist. was killed inside at their consulate there saying it was the result of some sort of fight still so many more questions for a main thank you for joining me for the news hour some insight on is that next on the other side of the break as we continue our coverage. bolshoi ballet's prima ballerina discusses the pain and sacrifice behind the tutu and the role of art in continues russia the pain starts from the very beginning of the ballet school. our bodies are not physically prepared for what we have to do said lama zakat old talks to all jazzy of. six. from this song roots the funny thing is a common. phrase from issue rules is the name one of which i recorded
a regular as a regular music is really kind of trip for a very young age it may come from the make of what i feel that. talks about just its quality talks a little older this is our trade in music as the rest of us do you rather that it is right especially for a good thing and this is kind of all the right wing assault on our freedom to oss questions and generally all freedom of expression and people you know are being taught it's like students teachers activists filmmakers rights it's place all of them but it's limited the fun of a respite and people are on the streets to protest and it's just our doorstep so in which as a whip i'd like to attempts to contradict something and it's. going to go into the first time i notice i had the disease i said it's not possible i've been going to need to look for a week you know that. has a point been the home for she said ever since the down the tier the disease is
dangerous that's where i come from when i mean i don't whenever i'm given people i stand for nights i want to go to bed until i've treated ten one lifeline the quest for global health on al-jazeera. well you know. some of the early. i'm sam is a done with continuing breaking news coverage of the case of missing sound the journalist. saudi arabia finally admits the saudi journalist was killed in its stumble consulate. five people are fide including
a top intelligence official along with a royal advisor and eighteen others are arrested in connection with the jews death . saudi king gives crown prince mohammed bin sultan the job of supervisory a restructuring of the country's intelligence services plus. she would be has been a great ally but what happened is not acceptable. u.s. president donald trump bre-x. but says any action against the saudis should not include cancelling weapon sales. now after days of denials and changing narratives saudi arabia has for the first time officially confirmed that journalist jamal khashoggi was killed inside the saudi consulate in istanbul all the admission comes seventeen days after the show
she was last seen going into that building claims there was a brawl inside and he died during the fight five top saudi officials have been sacked among them a senior intelligence officer and an advisor to the royal courts saudi arabia says eighteen people are under arrest as part of the investigation president trump says those arrests are a great first step and he says he wants to talk further with crown prince mohammed bin about the investigation. has go to andrew simmons is live for us outside the saudi consulate in istanbul so the obvious one we have to start with andrew is how does this latest statement say this with weeks of initial claims of denial of any knowledge of what happened by the saudis. cuts right against it the tapes involved which we've not heard yet but daily
all those narration in world media we're hearing extracts all the time and that counters the accounts the short account the saudis have given because in the building behind us according to the tapes within minutes there was because she was attacked. straight away of the screaming inside is fingers were cut he was beaten it was supposed to have been injected there was a suggestion that he may have even been beheaded but body parts were cut and it was also heard on the tape the instruction for officials to put those body parts in bags so this doesn't sound like a fight that took place all of a sudden. furthermore there are suggestions from with hooks that the evidence all builds around a saudi it t. not to a team coming in to ask questions or even try
a rendition but the south is not suggesting that it was anything other than a brawl although there are still questions to be asked about just how this came about the key figures involved of the two that that's that stand out and amongst the five that was sacked siloed cut sonnie that important figure in the will household key advisor to mohammed bin some on himself also the deputy intelligence chief bed a series of well known figure in saudi arabia the face of the wall immediate as the war in yemen the spokesperson for the saudi now ration of what's happened in that war against the truth is now these people if this is a suggestion that was a rogue operation what's their motivation to do it without an order that's one
question that has to be asked furthermore when you compare this account with the turkish narration there is really a major point is why were these men in such a hurry why were they avoiding it was seen any turkish officials. under a lot of also details. we do need to ask whether the latest saudi narrative has any explanation for the sort of reports that a team of people arrived coincidentally apparently carrying a bone saw. coincidentally there happened to bring with them a forensic expert someone an expert in autopsies how does that sit with the idea that an unplanned brawl broke out in the embassy that somehow lend to the journalists unplanned death. well i'd like to ask
the president of turkey that question because i'm sure he will be fitting in everyone worldwide once this investigation is complete will there be any more immediate response that isn't clear but yes you're right the coding to the turkish investigates is there was a bone so there was a forensic expert in the team or also a key figure one that's on video camera on the c.c.t.v. recordings here at the embassy at the movenpick hotel in istanbul and also the apple is more or less traced most of the day and that is my. he is an intelligence official he's also a form of first secretary at the saudi embassy in london and according to one report out of saudi he knew his show g in london a decade ago why was he a key figure why was he apparently leading this operation on the ground when he knew him was that a suggestion that he could be a key figure that could have
a role in. in talking to. talking to the washington post columnist will or whatever but know that the end of the day the tapes when the hood will suggest that there was an attack according to that there was an attack within minutes it's eleven minutes even within minutes he was attacked as his fiance was waiting outside the building and she then telephoned an aide to president. then we move on from that to another part of the saudi statements in which it is said that there will be a complete reform of the intelligence agency and that will be headed by bin soundman himself so it doesn't look as if he is going to be. put to one side by side by the signs we have from king salma furthermore. all
just ahead of all these announcements minutes ahead of we heard reports confirmed reports from the ever do turkish news agency that there had been a phone call between king solomon and president that was according to the agency all it said it was discussed was cooperation over the independent investigations then suddenly this announcement you'd be a fool to think that there was anything other than a warning to president that the saudis were going to make these statements or response was well that remains to be seen as well as as we all know there's a big difference between saudi and turkey over this a major diplomatic crisis it's certainly not solved and now the only question is is there any direct evidence linking bin solomon the crown prince to this operation in the evidence the turks have so unclear but observers particularly
in washington d.c. in congress on to press with this they're not buying it it would seem a lot of them anyway particularly lindsey graham who tweeted very quickly that he didn't take it at all seriously even though the u.s. president in his words as we've heard did not seem to be as perturbed as some might expect him to be the rather extraordinary nature of some of these assertions particularly the ball and you know we'll talk to patty in a moment a little more detail about the u.s. position on this but i undergoing back to the issue perspective on this who just to put things into context we've had this information coming out of a turkish investigation now a saudi narrative it seems to fly in the face of some of those details what then is the turkish position right now on the latest saudi narrative on what happened.
well it's there's nothing official come out in fact there's there's nothing from any officials the announcement was made in the middle of the night and there is no statement of any sort but we can expect to hear something one would expect whether you'll hear any any assertion about the investigation is unclear the indicates is prior so this announcement by the south is a was that they will take their time they'll take the necessary time to do a thorough investigation that observes international law at every stage however it has to be said that these leaks as i say are almost daily narration of transcripts going worldwide has been a constant pressure on saudi arabia in terms of what it's supposed to do with such allegations being made and the pressure exerted from the united states on saudi arabia to pump a zero in self giving them
a seventy two hour deadline that was then extended has has caused them to really well i wouldn't say rush but certainly put some speed on in terms of coming up what with what they say is a preliminary statement saudi arabia is saying it's a preliminary statement investigations are still taking place and there have been eighteen arrests and detentions one assumes that that number of eighteen includes the fifteen that say flew out here on two separate private jets to engage in this operation all right we'll leave it there for now with andrew simmons but sim of course all brings us more reaction from ankara now. definitely the leaks by the turkish officials the media helped to put pressure international pressure over saudi arabia in order to call mass the death of journalists. the prosecutor's office in istanbul is running an independent investigation despite another
investigation is underway in saudi arabia at the sources that i have spoken after to saudi and now spent they say that they will be continuing chasing after this and they will not stop until they find a body of jamal khashoggi because his body it would be the key indicator of this inquiry in order to file an indictment and to carry out this case to a higher level and international level of course now everybody's curious whether mohamed in somalia will be able to get away this. relationship with the with the men he has dismissed this miss but until now the saudi rhetorical was based on denying his disappearance but the leaked information by the official sources say that even after two hours after entrance inside the consulate a saudi official went out with.